Stones and Barkley go to the Euros

31/05/2016  104 Comments  [Jump to last]
Marco Luzzani/Getty Images

John Stones and Ross Barkley have both been named in the final squad of 23 England players for Euro2016.

While Stones's inclusion seemed like a formality after his improved form in recent games, particularly in the friendly win over Australia, Barkley's selection was by no means a foregone conclusion.

After an impressive start to the 2015-16 season with Everton, the 22-year-old's form suffered more than most as the Blues' Premier League campaign eventually came off the rails, which inevitably cost Roberto Martinez his job.

On his day, however, Barkley has shown himself to be a match-winner and one of the few England players with natural flair — something Roy Hodgson appears to have acknowledged by naming him and Tottenham's Dele Alli in the party for France alongside more workmanlike midfield options like Jordan Henderson, James Milner and Eric Dier.

Barkley has had to shoulder a lot of seemingly unfair criticism as his fitness has been brought into question — something this article on him by Matt Lawton for the Daily Mail seeks to refute.

Hodgson's squad includes five strikers, with Vardy, Kane and Rashford. Danny Drinkwater and Andros Townsend are two players from the provisional squad to miss out. The full squad and their shirt numbers are:

Goalkeepers
1. Joe Hart (Manchester City)
13. Fraser Forster (Southampton)
23. Tom Heaton (Burnley).

Defenders
5. Gary Cahill (Chelsea) 5.
6. Chris Smalling (Manchester United)
16. John Stones (Everton)
2. Kyle Walker (Tottenham Hotspur)
21. Ryan Bertrand (Southampton)
3. Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur)
12. Nathaniel Clyne (Liverpool)

Midfielders
20. Dele Alli (Tottenham Hotspur)
19. Ross Barkley (Everton)
17. Eric Dier (Tottenham Hotspur)
14. Jordan Henderson (Liverpool)
8. Adam Lallana (Liverpool)
4. James Milner (Liverpool)
7. Raheem Sterling (Manchester City)
18. Jack Wilshere (Arsenal)

Strikers
10. Wayne Rooney (Manchester United)
9. Harry Kane (Tottenham Hotspur)
11. Jamie Vardy (Leicester City)
15. Daniel Sturridge (Liverpool)
22. Marcus Rashford (Manchester United)

 

Reader Comments (104)

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Guy Hastings
1 Posted 31/05/2016 at 14:04:17
There goes my prediction - Ross in.
Oscar Huglin
2 Posted 31/05/2016 at 14:11:05
Good news. Whatever people say about whether Barkley deserves to be going, he is definitely a better choice than Townsend.
Kieran Kinsella
3 Posted 31/05/2016 at 14:15:53
I'm surprised. I don't think he warrants it on form but maybe this will boost him. I read they have given him a special training regime to boost his sharpness.
Les Martin
4 Posted 31/05/2016 at 14:18:11
So pleased for Ross, as I thought he had come up short. Also, it would have been a real killer for him to go to the World Cup but not then onto the Euros, as you would expect him to have come on from then.

I did notice that Roy played Alli and Barkley together a few game back and they worked a lot of magic. Don't bet against them both playing together at some stage in the tournament.

I hope Stones has a great tournament too, as we can't lose on that one.

Come on, England

Kim Vivian
5 Posted 31/05/2016 at 14:20:36
Good for Ross. I thought he was going to miss out. Let's hope he has a good confidence reviving stint in France to bring back to a new resurgent Everton next season.

I'd wish the same about Stones and do hope he has a good tournament but sadly I think he will be elsewhere in August.

William Cartwright
6 Posted 31/05/2016 at 14:32:28
Can anyone ever remember when an England manager has so blatantly talked about one of his players, currently under contract, being advised not to allow his impending transfer to get in the way of his concentration and effort to perform for England? Bloody nerve of the old Puffin...

I have been aware of the BBC refusing to respect Everton's rights as a football club for years but it is not often the football establishment's figurehead is so blatantly dismissive of us. Time for a change, Mr Moshiri.

Andy Bone
7 Posted 31/05/2016 at 14:44:06
A couple of years back, I am sure there was a rumour that the players only spent time with a ball and that fitness and stamina wasn't being trained at a high enough level. I think it coincided with Steve Tasjian going back to the USA. Now Barkley is clearly a big lad, but it looks like he needs fitness training more than others to me and if that wasn't being provided for him then he and his game was clearly going to suffer.

It's all conjecture but I believe he had lost belief in the manager and his methods. Hodgson has been critical in the past but clearly believes in Ross and I think he could be a match winner for England and us next year when back in shape and the right frame of mind.

Tony J Williams
8 Posted 31/05/2016 at 14:45:26
Henderson & Wilshere included – says it all really from Woy!!
Kieran Kinsella
9 Posted 31/05/2016 at 14:47:46
We never learn we always drag half fit players to these tournaments.
Christopher Wallace
10 Posted 31/05/2016 at 14:55:32
8 goals and 9 assists in league for Barkley this year.

That is better than Rooney, Sturridge, Coutinho, Mata, De Bruyne, Pedro, Sterling, Yaya, Fabregas.

We all know that Ross wasn't consistent enough this year, but he can make things happen.

Charlie Burnett
11 Posted 31/05/2016 at 14:57:22
I see all the Liverpool players are on the plane, fit not fit, played or not played – but still there.

I can't stand the man.

Bob Cumiskey
12 Posted 31/05/2016 at 15:02:34
Good luck to the lads. Let's hope they do themselves and EFC proud when the opportunity arrives.
Paul Andrews
13 Posted 31/05/2016 at 15:02:59
Barring injuries neither will start the first game.

Ross needs to get his confidence back, he is a great player in the making who lost his way a little last season.

John will be kept out of the starting eleven by the other two centre-halves. Smalling, I can accept the logic in that. For him to be second choice to Cahill will be disappointing for the lad and his supporters.

Paul Hewitt
14 Posted 31/05/2016 at 15:03:40
Drinkwater has been amazing this season. And still doesn't make it. Jack Wilshere has been injured most of the season. No wonder England are shite.
Steavey Buckley
16 Posted 31/05/2016 at 15:15:18
Hodgson should have gone for more width. But by leaving out Townsend, Hodgson shows he has the same mindset as Martinez, by playing attackers and midfielders in wide positions. And that will be the main reason why England will not get to the semis in the Euros.
Ian Burns
17 Posted 31/05/2016 at 15:22:41
Delighted for Ross as it would have damaged his confidence, which has taken a battering in 2016 to date. Good luck to John Stones, I just wish we were keeping him for next season.
Tony Draper
18 Posted 31/05/2016 at 15:29:31
Henderson, Wilshere & Sturridge?

Amazing!

Sturridge, is a great talent but has the resilience of Weetabix in hot milk!

Wilshere, is a talent, but has the resilience of Weetabix in hot milk.

Henderson has the talent of warm milk.

Ross Barkley just has not maintained his early season improved level of performances. TBH his tracking back reminds me of Peter Kay's "Dad Running".

(Tried but can't find the bloody thing, hence no link.)

Kristian Boyce
19 Posted 31/05/2016 at 15:46:24
Looks a very unbalanced squad. Other than Sterling, there really isn't any wide players. Without that option, there really isn't any Plan B for Roy.
James Stewart
20 Posted 31/05/2016 at 15:47:59
Suicide squad. 3 centre backs and no width. And what is the point in so many strikers when he only ever plays one up top? Be surprised if they even make the QF.
Tony Hill
21 Posted 31/05/2016 at 15:49:18
I wouldn't have cared too much if Ross hadn't gone but I'm pleased he has been selected. As Hodgson started his difficulties, in my view, with the stupid public criticism after the Ecuador game pre-World Cup, so this inclusion may bring about a much-needed confidence boost for a player who I continue to think is a potential great.

Also one in the eye for the Drinkwater sentimentalists, notably the dire Ian Wright.

Paul Kossoff
22 Posted 31/05/2016 at 15:55:20
Defoe was a definite for me, he is proven and just had a good season. Townsend is as good as Sterling if not better, the five Liverpool players, well I'm not biased but not one of them should be in on form or fitness.

Mostly made up squad of top teams and favourites.

Good luck to Barkley and Stones.

Tony Draper
23 Posted 31/05/2016 at 15:57:52
TBH, it really doesn't matter who Woy selected, does it?

After all... this Roy Hodgson. They'll all be home before the kit man has finished unpacking!

Paul Kossoff
24 Posted 31/05/2016 at 15:58:12
Tony 21, Agree on the affect Hodgson's criticism had on Ross, but I think Drinkwater is as good as any of the Liverpool midfielders in the squad.
Nick Entwistle
25 Posted 31/05/2016 at 16:02:50
Rashford. No no no. There's a litany of young England players making squads after a couple of months playing decent football and then go missing for their entire career.

He isn't Rooney, or Owen, he's only a few games better off than Walcott's unnecessary inclusion back in '06.

There is no reason for England payers to make there debut until 22, 23 unless there's an obvious dearth of talent in their position. He may well end up the greatest striker ever, but this doesn't help. Its only the need to have a story like Schillachi or Rooney back in '04.

Paul Kossoff
26 Posted 31/05/2016 at 16:04:05
Going off post a bit, odds for our new manager paddy power, De Boer 2.1 Pelligrini 5.3 Emery 3.1.
Nick Entwistle
27 Posted 31/05/2016 at 16:09:34
And what's that in English, Paul? Can never get the hang of decimal odds.
Paul Kossoff
28 Posted 31/05/2016 at 16:12:13
Nick I'm no betting man lol, two to one, five to three, three to one. Umm I think?
Sam Hoare
29 Posted 31/05/2016 at 16:16:01
Henderson getting in over title-winning Drinkwater is pretty ludicrous to be honest. If ever someone was being picked for club over form.

I wish Barkley had been excluded to be honest. He could use the rest followed by a good, full, hard pre-season to get him sharp rather than collecting splinters in France.

Dave Pritchard
30 Posted 31/05/2016 at 16:19:18
Drinkwater is very unlucky. Great engine and fully fit. More than can be said about Wilshere and Henderson. Glad Ross is included although on recent form he could easily have been left out.
Gary Hughes
31 Posted 31/05/2016 at 16:34:14
Everyone on here making comments about Ross and his fitness/sharpness should read a superb article by Matt Lawton in today's Daily Mail. An eye-opener.
Michael Kenrick
32 Posted 31/05/2016 at 17:07:33
Thanks for pointing up that article, Gary (#31); I've added a link up to at the end of the story text. It is amazing how building muscle is in his case construed as fat.

I hope he gets a chance to impress, and really takes it. I think his talent has been managed atrociously to this point by all the managers he's worked under – Moyes, Warnock, Hodgson... but most especially Martinez. The damage he has done to this club and our best players could take some time to heal. And in their short careers, these are formative years they can never get back. That, to me, is the real shame.

Christopher Wallace
33 Posted 31/05/2016 at 17:07:42
Nick

Boer 11/10
Pellegrini just under 9/2
Emery 21/10

Basically just multiply stake by the figure

Nathan Rooney
34 Posted 31/05/2016 at 17:08:20
Not really bothered about Everton players being picked for Ingurlund, aside from hoping they don't get injured or tapped up!

Good luck to Barkley and Stones, but I am not even sure the old fart in charge will give them any meaningful game time?

His favourites "Mike" Smalling and Hoof Cahill at CB will start so that's Stones getting splinters.

Wazza will drop into midfield, as Woy must play him somewhere and it won't be in attack; looks like Jack Wheelchair has been sucking Woy off, cos he's gonna get game time, along with the “talented” Henderson, Milner etc, so Ross gets splinters as well?

Having said that, Jack Wheelchair will probably get injured in the hotel bar or nightclub before a ball has been kicked, so Ross may get the nod a little more than I am predicting?

Stones has had a mare of a season, but I understand why he has been picked. Personally I would have taken Jagielka ahead of any of the CBs Woy has opted for.

Ross is also a little lucky to be on the plane, as his second part of the season fell off a cliff, and you could argue others should have been taken ahead of him.

I really feel for the likes of Drinkwater, Noble and Defoe, who have had more than decent seasons, but have been overlooked for the usual bang average favourites, from the so called “big” clubs.

On the whole, it's the squad you would expect from a god awful manager – oh how I miss the days when Woy was over at Mordor!

Tony Hill
35 Posted 31/05/2016 at 17:12:33
Paul (24), fair comment. I think Drinkwater is a very solid midfielder but I think he would be found out at a major tournament and I am mildly irritated by the Leicester bandwagon. My bitterness, I'm sure. That said, the continuing selection of Henderson is indeed a mystery.

Gary (31), yes a very good article.

Duncan McDine
36 Posted 31/05/2016 at 17:22:51
Paul, Nick, Christopher... The odds have just been written incorrectly, I just checked PaddyPower and they are not decimal odds!!!

Currently:
FdB 2/1
Pellegrini 5/2
Emery 3/1

Guess that means the bookies have no idea whatsoever!!!

Regarding the England squad, I'd have probably taken both Drinkwater and Townsend and left Wilshere and Ross at home. I'd be delighted if Ross proves me wrong and has a real impact.

Andrew Clare
37 Posted 31/05/2016 at 17:24:43
I hope Barkley does well but I'm not concerned about Stones as he has played his last game for us as it stands at the moment.

We could of course hire a charismatic world class manager. Then everything would change. I'm probably dreaming but I hope it's Emery or Simeone.

As for England – they won't get very far. Too many mediocre players and a mediocre manager will soon get found out.

Denis Richardson
38 Posted 31/05/2016 at 17:34:14
Sturridge, Wilshere and Henderson all not 100% fit but on the plane. No surprises there then. I will be amazed if at least one of them doesn't break down.

As usual all the guys from the so called 'big' clubs are in and the likes of Drinkwater and Townsend not. The former has had a belter of a season (can say the same for Mark Noble) but neither plays for a fashionable club.

Just one player from the League Champions in the entire squad yet Spurs who finished 2nd have 5 going and Liverpool after a shite season finishing 8th also have no less than 5 players in.

Just one wide midfielder in the whole squad and only three CBs.

This team will leak goals – this will be fun to watch.

Tom Bowers
39 Posted 31/05/2016 at 17:39:10
It's kind of sad that Hodgson has the hots for Sterling as I believe that Townsend got short changed and should have been in instead of that little pansy.

In any event, a few players out of form and others not 100% confirms Hodgson's career is almost over.

Don Alexander
40 Posted 31/05/2016 at 17:39:24
Regardless of why and how he's bulked up, Ross Barkley now looks far more ponderous when in possession, and infuriatingly invisible when not. Like any player he needs to maximise his pace for the benefit of the team and in my opinion he's now lost some.

Given his talent for running at teams with the ball, I think any opponent would be well chuffed to see him the size and pace he is now. He is unable to now do so successfully the things his opponents most fear, and restoring that to his armoury should be a priority for him and the new manager.

David Chait
41 Posted 31/05/2016 at 17:41:45
Very very happy he has been chosen! I don't know how many minutes he will get but the team should have both him and Alli.

Good for us too as he will know he can still make the national team being with us.. Stones too.

Colin Glassar
42 Posted 31/05/2016 at 17:42:25
Ross, apparently, has been told to cut down on the gym work. According to Matt Law, he spends hours in the gym and track and has been suffering from burnout. Roy has told him to ease off the weights and jogging.
Paul Graney
43 Posted 31/05/2016 at 17:50:18
Poor squad selection in my eyes. If certain players didn't play for the likes of the Shite, Spurs, Arsenal, Man City, Man Utd or Chelsea would they have been in the squad? That would be a big fat no. No width so therefore square pegs in round holes, players out of form and players who have been injured most of the season.

Personally, I wouldn't have taken Barkley. He's been shocking for the latter part of the season and his confidence is shot to pieces. Got to say a person I feel for is Mark Noble who has been excellent this season but I forgot, he doesn't play for one of the above and, as everyone knows, Woy has got his favourites who must be in the squad, no matter what.
Eric Myles
44 Posted 31/05/2016 at 17:57:51
In any event, a few players out of form and others not 100% confirms Hodgson's career is almost over.

Unless we're waiting for the Euros to finish to sign him up!!

Geoff Risebrow
45 Posted 31/05/2016 at 18:05:17
I am delighted for Ross. He is a class act and he is head and shoulders above a large number of the midfielders (Henderson, Milner, Lallana, Sterling etc).
Eric Myles
46 Posted 31/05/2016 at 18:10:40
The Daily Mail are already touting Barkley to United!
Steve Bell
47 Posted 31/05/2016 at 18:14:18
Eric Myles (#44),

Crikey, just imagine (please don't) Woy as DoF and he who shall not be named back as manager!

I would section myself.


Charles Barrow
48 Posted 31/05/2016 at 18:48:43
Like many posters here I agree that Hodgson is in thrall to the Sky 4 - he's chosen players who are injured or not match fit or bang average but play for City, United, the RS etc. How Henderson and Milner get in I really have no idea. Why he's taken Rashford when they have plenty of strikers ...?? He's clueless.

Townsend should have gone because he's in form and raring to go and provides genuine width, but Hodgson ignores form. Indeed he must do as he's selected Ross! I hope Ross does well and sticks it to all the 'experts' on the TV and in the papers who have abandoned him for their new toy boy Delli Ali.

Stones will probably get a game as he's far better than Smalling or Cahill and Roy will select him as he's going to Utd or City anyway! So he passes the Roy test. Ross will only play if half the team are injured (possible) or we're losing 3-0 and he wants a miracle in the last 20 minutes (very possible).

Tom Bowers
49 Posted 31/05/2016 at 18:54:59
Have to agree Ross is looking a little bulked up these days and I am sure it has affected his game. It's one thing being fit and another being quick but generally then two don't go together when you have too much muscle.

In any case, he is a better player than that jerk Jordan Henderson going forward but I will be happy that he doesn't get injured and comes back ready to play the way we know he can under Everton's new boss.

Jimmy Wong
50 Posted 31/05/2016 at 19:02:39
I didn't think Ross would go so it's great to see his name there.
Joe Clitherow
51 Posted 31/05/2016 at 19:15:51
Really not sure why people are pleased our players get into England tournaments. Hodgson is a second rate manager who got the job more on his ability to toe the party line than shape a team and all our players either get tapped up directly on internationals or unsettled by made up paper talk which often becomes self generating prophecy.

It all changes for me on the day of a game of course but difficult to get excited by a manager who seems to place blatant favouritism of certain players above players in form, which is absolutely how you need to pick your players for tournament football (please don't come back with Paolo Rossi etc – these are exceptions rather than the rule).

How on earth does Wilshere get in above Drinkwater? Hodgson is a clown and I expect him to be gone within a month. (Err, or he is a footballing genius soon to become Sir Woy.)

Paul Thompson
52 Posted 31/05/2016 at 19:21:34
Unreasonable pessimism about the squad and Hodgson IMO.There's talent there. We've got attackers who have pace and can score (though I would have taken Townsend rather than Henderson).

My worry would be whether the midfield can dominate possession enough to supply the front players. That's why I think Roy will play Rooney in midfield/the no. 10 role.

On the Everton front, Stones (according to a number of commentators) may well start as he has impressed in the two friendlies.

Barkley likely to be an impact sub. He can make things happen and lets hope he does as it will do wonders for his fragile confidence.

Tony Draper
53 Posted 31/05/2016 at 19:25:54
Regarding "The Ross Barkley Conundrum", I reckon that his "obsession" with muscle, and despite being a bloody big powerful lad. He seems to play like there's this "fear inside". He just won't rip the bajsus out of opponents.

Now ridicule me all you like, and I'm setting meself up, so go 'head, take the piss.

Zidane, Yaya?

Here's my point, that terrible leg break at a crucial age?

Is that the "devil inside"?

He's physically recovered, but DEEPLY scarred?
If that's the case, there's no room to criticise. Having a 90% career for Ross is WAY beyond a 100% career for us lot.

Pray to "The Holy Trinity", that I'm wrong and he just needs a good arm around the shoulder.

Christy Ring
54 Posted 31/05/2016 at 19:43:35
Ross deserves to be in the squad, but I cannot understand how Drinkwater, who had an outstanding season, was dropped in favour of Henderson, who was subbed in most games, and Wilshere, who didn't play at all.
Oliver Molloy
55 Posted 31/05/2016 at 19:46:32
Tony,

I think you right, there is just something missing. I don't see the "phenomenal" player that a lot of Everton fans and the media talk up.

Yes, he is still young but he's got start doing the business. Money is half the problem with young footballers these days, they don't want to get hurt; if they do, it could be millions!

Alastair Donaldson
56 Posted 31/05/2016 at 20:00:55
Pleased we have two reps, still a shame for Jags who is a quality defender and probably on a par with Cahill defensively. Stones without the high risk taking is head and shoulders above anything else England have. Think Ross is a little bit lucky, but talent wise does bring more than the foot soldiers.

Ross needs to start going forward and not do his usual 180° turning back into trouble... he'll be fine that way.

They'll be lucky to get out of the qualifying round imho.

Tony Abrahams
57 Posted 31/05/2016 at 20:04:29
Tony, you make a fair point, but I'm wondering who at Everton, has let Barkley, go and let himself, get this big?

In football more than most sports, speed is strength, so to let him bulk up like this is just ridiculous. Same with Deulofeu, he's fucked after four/five sprints.

Not a pick on Vardy, but the lad doesn't stop, surely the best way to play football?

Good luck to them both, I hope they do well, even if I think we are probably going to lose Stones.

David Chait
58 Posted 31/05/2016 at 20:14:46
Feel the need to ask after reading this endless barrage of muscle slowing him down! Crumbs! Has anybody seen the world best sprinters for the last 30 years? How about any of the fastest and best rugby wingers around?

All built like brick houses!

Ross has an issue with fitness, he has never been the quickest on the field but also not the slowest and I haven't seen that he has slowed at all. When he puts down the burners he gets up a decent speed. It's just his willingness to run and keep it going for 90 minutes. A new manager can solve those issues no problem.. We have a diamond!

Ian Riley
59 Posted 31/05/2016 at 20:16:44
If Drinkwater can't get into the squad after the season he has had, he never will. Roy has gone with the players from big clubs. After the last tournament no player was a cert. Sometimes hunger, energy and desire are needed over pure skill.

Let's wait and see if Roy is right!

Andy Crooks
60 Posted 31/05/2016 at 20:31:49
Henderson and Wilshere? Hodgson is a bewildered and quite unpleasant, arrogant fool.

Also, Michael (#32), a very good point. Martinez was, in my view, the most damaging influence at the club in fifty years. He and Kenwright could and would have destroyed us. We need someone special in to repair the damage.

Michael Winstanley
61 Posted 31/05/2016 at 20:39:38
I'm pleased for them and think they should both start. Overall I'm not impressed with the squad, as already stated it'll be fun to watch.

And we need to get a manager who can get the best out of Barkley, I understand why some people don't see it but I see a lad who is still learning his trade. He's 22 years of age and every club in our league would have him.

I was hoping Rooney would come back this summer but now Jose is at Man Utd I don't see it, what say you?

Jamie Crowley
62 Posted 31/05/2016 at 20:39:51
Drinkwater got screwed. Sturridge shouldn't have been selected IMO. I'd leave Sturridge home and take another midfielder in Drinkwater.

Roy's probably going to play Lalana, Sturridge, Milner (wtf?), and Wilshire. It won't work.

Were I English, and were I the English manager, I'd go:

Forster
Bertrand Cahill Stones Rose
Dier
Sterling Rooney Barkley Alli
Vardy

If you're anti-Barkley then put Wilshere in there.

Euros won, you're welcome.

But no... Woy will tota-wee fuck it up. He'll play Hedno, Lalana and Milner somehow.

Danny O'Neill
63 Posted 31/05/2016 at 21:09:27
Personally disinterested in England so they can take who they want. I'm English by the way, just never associated with the English football team anyway and in recent years have become totally disillusioned with the state of our national game. If they succeed it will simply serve to paper the cracks caused by the FA, fuelled by their Sky benefactors focussing on a top down approach that does nothing to resolve the crisis at grass roots (whilst German, Dutch, Belgian and US kids play on the finest of 3/4/5G facilities, ours are generally still kicking a ball around in mud; we wonder why few of them can't compete when it gets to the business end of the game. Hence my spin on the argument that there are too many foreign players in the English game therefore not providing opportunity for English players is contrary; if we produced players good enough, we wouldn't need to shop abroad as much.

Cheery rant over!!!

Good luck to both lads. Ross in particular and I echo Chris Wallace earlier in this thread; he's a player who can change things. He won't be 100% perfect for 90 minutes every match but he offers that moment of magic that turns the game...and he's still not the polished article. Kevin Sheedy anyone....dare I say it John Barnes. As I've said before, players who were as infuriating as they were majestic. Very rarely do you get your cake and eat it with players like that.

A work horse will be there for you all year around to prove his worth. A Grand National winner performs once a year to become an idolised legend.

Tony Abrahams
64 Posted 31/05/2016 at 21:22:52
Crumbs David? The fitter he gets, the more muscle he will lose. I don't think anyone is questioning his pace, it's his complete lack of stamina, which is most worrying, and carrying all that extra bulk, will not be helping him in this department at all.
Raymond Fox
65 Posted 31/05/2016 at 21:22:57
Nathan 34, well summed up mate, agree with all your points.

Barkley is lucky to be going, I suppose he's been picked to throw on when we are behind and Woy tells him to go for goal at all cost. He's become very disappointing, he's not going around defenders, passing intelligently or tackling like a midfielder should.

Stones is excellent going forward but his job is to defend and I'm afraid he's a long way off being reliable in that sphere.

It looks certain that him and Lukaku will be off before next season starts, of the two we'll miss Lukaku much more than Stones going off this seasons performances.

From 1970 onwards England have been nothing short of an embarrassment and I'm not expecting much different this time. I'll be recording their matches and skimming though searching for any good bits, I've wasted far too much time in the past watching them live!

Tony Abrahams
66 Posted 31/05/2016 at 21:25:59
Who do you think will go furthest in their careers, Raymond – Stones or Lukaku?
Bobby Thomas
67 Posted 31/05/2016 at 21:52:02
If you think of the squad for Hodgson's first tournament, when he was appointed with about 8 weeks to go and the squad was not up to standard, I think by and large he has managed this transition of players fairly well.

We have the makings of a very decent side. Roy's big problem though is this tournament is coming a little early. Roy isn't going to get the benefit of this new crop of players. The next manager at the next tournament will.

Having said that, there is no real excuse to look as ropey defensively as England do, and if that continues they aren't making it out of the group.

As for Ross... he's a footballer, not a body builder, and clearly needs to lay off the weights.

Christopher Wallace
68 Posted 31/05/2016 at 22:07:32
Finve Strikers and one winger. Okay, Sturridge could come on and make a crucial contribution. The less said about Wilshere and Henderson, the better.

Glad I'm not English!!

GAWA

Raymond Fox
69 Posted 31/05/2016 at 22:23:06
Lukaku Tony, I think he'll be more valuable to a team than Stones.
A defender that's dodgy in defence against a proven goalscorer, its a no-brainer for me.

Time could prove me wrong, but I'm not yet in the Stones fan club.

Tom Bowers
70 Posted 31/05/2016 at 22:26:11
Sadly Drinkwater has suffered because of Hodgson's refusal to disconnect with his RS allegiance. Lallana, Sterling, Henderson and Milner could easily have been left out and dare I say Barkley.

Why get Drinkwater's hopes up by calling him into the squad and then crushing him much like he has done to Townsend? Hodgson is a prick and expecting this England squad to get past the quarters is pie in the sky.

Christopher Wallace
71 Posted 31/05/2016 at 23:23:17
Raymond

Lukaku has turned into a lazy bastard, with a terrible attitude.

There's also the small detail of him not wanting to play for our club, and he tells it to anyone that will listen.

His value will never be higher than it is now. Get rid, and make sure the door hits him hard on the back of the head on his way out.

Stones is still very young for his position, and I don't think he is too far off being top quality. Sadly, he doesn't want to play for us either.

Lukaku's goals will be missed in the short term, but Stones will be a better player. Quite often big centre-forwards struggle with injuries later in their careers, though this may not be an issue due to Rom's selfishness and lack of effort.

Laurie Hartley
72 Posted 01/06/2016 at 02:07:34
David (#58) – you are correct about the size of both sprinters and rugby wingers however the physical demands on them are totally different from a footballer playing midfield.

A sprint runs at most 200 metres then that's it – game over. It's about explosive power over a short distance and period of time.

A rugby winger gets a blow every time there is a scrum or throw in. Basically they are required to sprint or wrestle in short bursts.

A midfielder requires lower body strength, stamina and lung capacity.

Back on topic – I am really pleased for Ross and hope he has a great tournament.

Anthony Jones
73 Posted 01/06/2016 at 02:48:25
7 Centre Mids? Where is the width coming from? Should be a short tournament.
James Flynn
74 Posted 01/06/2016 at 03:06:33
Laurie (72) - "A sprint runs at most 200 metres then that's it - game over. It's about explosive power over a short distance and period of time."

Huh? Sprints ARE explosive power. Might want to look at Leicester. 200 meters is below the minimum for their players. In training.

"A midfielder requires lower body strength, stamina and lung capacity."

Barkley has lower-body strength to burn. How have you not
noticed him brush defenders off on a run?

His stamina and lung capacity aren't up to snuff because of OFM's disinterest in them as important to an EPL professional.

Ross is good to go as soon as we get an actual professional manager in charge. Not the clown we suffered for 3 years.


Ernie Baywood
75 Posted 01/06/2016 at 03:47:54
This is exactly why managers shouldn't be responsible for defining the type of football we want to play. They should tweak rather than redefine.

There's no doubt in my mind that Ross' gains weren't something he decided to do in his own time. The club will have had him on a program and this is the result.

The only extent to which I blame Ross is that he needs to take ownership of his own career. He should have fucked us off as soon as it was evident that we were ruining him.

The lad can't run 50m without being spent. The way we've conditioned him has been borderline criminal.

Paul Andrews
76 Posted 01/06/2016 at 06:49:21
Raymond,

I agree re Stones. A defender is supposed to do what it says on the tin, ie, defend.

If he didn't have the undoubted ability he has on the ball, he would not be called world class or compared to icons such as Booby Moore. udged purely on his defensive capability, he would be a poor defender. The Cruyff turns and nutmegs kid people.

Nothing wrong with playing the ball out from the back. Some of my all time favourites could do both. Bottom line? You MUST be able to defend as well.

Baresi... Thuram as good as Stones on the ball... as good as Stam defending.

Darren Hind
77 Posted 01/06/2016 at 07:39:38
I was shouted down on these pages a couple of years ago for criticising the way Martinez neglects the development and fitness of youngsters. The Knowledgeable insisted he was the perfect manager to bring them on.
Now I look at Lukaku, Barkley, Deulofeu (all of whom should have been certs this summer) and everyone of them are blowing out of their arses after 20 mins.

John Stones had his career stunted in a different way, but he will shine this summer. The offers will come in and we will accept the highest one.

The knowledgeable who were insisting that Martinez was the messiah will get their wish. The footballer will be sold and replaced by a dependable "stopper".

Free from the confusing, contradictory messages sent out by Martinez. John Stones will go on to become a champion.

Thomas Surgenor
78 Posted 01/06/2016 at 07:42:26
While I agree with all the Martinez fitness posts.
I just want to play devils advocate and ask how Gareth Barry doesn't seem to be struggling as much with it? Maybe he is mature and does a bit extra in his spare time?
Tony Abrahams
79 Posted 01/06/2016 at 07:54:11
James, you have a point, but surely Laurie, is correct with his assessment of a sprinter. Most of the Leicester players are lean and mean, which helps them to go again, and again.

Lukaku, is more valuable to the team than Stones? Another of those contradictions, that football regularly throws up, Raymond. How ironic that a selfish cunt is more valuable to the team, than the team player!

Tony Abrahams
80 Posted 01/06/2016 at 08:00:48
Good point Thomas, but I don't think I've ever saw Barry, really sprint.

The Martinez, style of football, had nearly everything going through Barry, and he was probably our best player last season.

He was definately our most consistent player, but I wonder how good he will be, if a new manager comes in and gets us playing at a much quicker tempo?

Phil Sammon
82 Posted 01/06/2016 at 08:43:37
Drinkwater has been a particularly vital cog in a well-oiled machine this season. As an individual I don't think he's anything spectacular. There's not a cat in hells chance England can produce the energy, togetherness and desire displayed by Leicester and I don't think the inclusion of Drinkwater would affect that either way.

The stupidest decision of the lot, for me, was leaving out Defoe. I hate the little blighter, but he's bang in form and knows where the net is. He's the very epitome of the kind of player we should be taking to a tournament.

Wilshire is a gamble but one I'm not averse to. He's a truly wonderful footballer and I hope he can get himself sharp enough to make an impact.

Laurie Hartley
83 Posted 01/06/2016 at 08:58:43
James # 34 - the point I was trying to make ( perhaps not very well) is that sprinters don't need the same level of stamina as a footballer.

Similarly rugby wingers while they need stamina get more opportunity to recover from a burst of activity than a footballer playing in midfield.

"Barkley has lower-body strength to burn. How have you not noticed him brush defenders"

Yes I have and I agree with you - he is very strong on the ball. But I have also noticed after a burst of activity quite often he is blowing for tugs - like a sprinter after running his race.

I think he is carrying too much muscle in his upper body for the position he plays - if he was a centre half I wouldn't.

Tony Abrahams
84 Posted 01/06/2016 at 09:08:20
Laurie, when you watch Barkley lately, he very rarely goes straight past a player. He's gone to big, and tends to go past a player, by the side, rather than going straight and using quick feet.

Hopefully Ross is getting himself refreshed and ready to play again, now Martinez, is no longer the man he has to listen to.

Hope the penny drops soon, because I'm sure most people would agree that the only thing really holding Ross Barkley, back, is himself.

Ernie Baywood
85 Posted 01/06/2016 at 09:08:38
Thomas, I don't think the approach was that every player was conditioned that way, just the players he saw as being 'explosive'. To be honest, I kind of agree with Lukaku's power and speed over stamina. I absolutely don't want him chasing people down. If we want to play that type of game, you should find someone else.

Barry resign distances for us. I think he was covering now ground than any others.

Martinez isn't exactly wrong with his approach. Horses for courses is the expression that comes to mind. I just think he set the wrong course.

Leicester keep getting used as an example but do you think Morgan and Huth we're having their arses trained off? It's not as simple as saying that everyone needs to be lean and ready to run marathons... You'd get overpowered.

Leicester's players were put together in a very specific way. We'll never recreate that and if we somehow did we'd find ourselves behind them.

Dave Abrahams
86 Posted 01/06/2016 at 09:17:39
I didn't think Ross would be selected, now he has I hope he has a good tournament and gains some confidence From it at least.

Good luck to John Stones as well, although I don't think we will ever see him as an Everton player again.

Tony Abrahams
87 Posted 01/06/2016 at 09:20:44
Ernie, it's really not just about having your arse ran off, it's about everything.

Pass, pass, pass, is fine for Barry and McCarthy, but a player like Barkley, was really being affected by this regime, because he's stopped doing things off the cuff.

Training should be hard, but training should also be varied and enjoyable.

I get the feeling that this wasn't the case at Everton, and just because training wasn't meant to be physically hard, this doesn't mean that the players weren't over-trained?

Ranieri, gave his players a week off, with less than ten league games left to play, whilst Roberto, probably bored our's stiff, with his warm winter training camps.

Derek Thomas
88 Posted 01/06/2016 at 09:33:06
Woy couldn't pick his nose never mind a squad and it's been obvious to most, that our conditioning has been lacking for 18mths or more.

Barkley and Lukaku both need de-bulking and up stamina-ing (yes I know these aren't proper words but you get the point) This de-bulking won't harm either as mentally they lack the mongrel to put themselves about anyway

The methods are out there and not top secret - it's fitness 101 in the AFL and those guys cover some ground AND get stuck in.

Tony Abrahams
89 Posted 01/06/2016 at 09:42:06
Derek, does AFL, mean Aussie rules football?
Raymond Fox
90 Posted 01/06/2016 at 10:18:26
Darren (#77), all supposition on your part, old chap.

The truth is we know eff all about what went on with Martinez and the players, except that Coleman and Howard have been supportive in their comments of the manager.

If there have been other players' comments, I'm sorry but I've missed them.

Nathan Rooney
91 Posted 01/06/2016 at 10:52:48
Ray – I think you are right, should they both leave we will miss Rom and his goals more than Stones, which as Tony states, is ironic, and a rather sad condemnation of modern football.

With regards to who will have the better career, that's all relative really, but I think they will both do well.

Rom for himself, wherever the selfish turd and his gobby father end up! He may win a few pots elsewhere, especially if he stays in France after the Euros.

Stones could be an all-time great at CB, once he actually starts to defend properly (the “calm down” spat with the park end was when my feelings towards him soured – defend first mate, it's what you are paid to do!)

I'm hoping the stellar appointment of the next Everton manager gives both pause as to them leaving us, and they both stay and have long and trophy laden Everton careers, becoming the Goodison greats that we know they could and should be!

Tony#84 – you are spot on about Barkley being the one limiting himself, as his ability is up there with the best, and hopefully our new manager can knock some kind of self-belief into him.

I hope his self limiting has nothing to do with the terrible injury he had to get over, and it's more to do with Senor Martinez's time at the club.

Dominic Tonge
92 Posted 01/06/2016 at 11:47:55
Regarding Gaz Baz, in Martinez's first season, Roberto gave an award for the player who trained best. One for youngsters, one for senior pros. Gaz Baz was named as best trainer in the group and I believe his prize was a watch.

I believe (not sure though) that Stones won the award for youngsters and was subsequently pictured with Ross watching a La Liga match, that being his prize.

Darren Hind
93 Posted 01/06/2016 at 12:02:59
Raymond

Supposition? ... Which bit?

You know for a fact that I was shouted down because you were one of those doing it "just admit you were wrong" you told me about Martinez – on numerous occasions.

We know that Barkley, Deulofeu and Lukaku can't manage 90 minutes between them... although they are only in their early twenties. Wanna contest that?

We know that the relationship between the players and the manager was broken and that the Chemistry was non-existent, because – despite your denials – Lukaku and Baines told us so. Ossie and Browning both gave us a good insight as to the amateurish way we prepared for games.

You haven't missed the other players' comments, Raymond. You just chose to ignore them.

Dan Davies
94 Posted 01/06/2016 at 13:00:11
Fitness shouldn't even be a question, that should be the first thing ticked off the list.

These players should in a professional environment have their own personal fitness plans set out by whoever the fitness coach is.

As professionals they should not just be hitting their targets but smashing through them. I don't know the regime that Everton have in place but to be questioning fitness is unbelievable in a pro environment.

I'm thinking maybe the sports science team at Everton need a good looking at especially with the amount of hamstring injuries we suffer, that's if we have one!

These players are paid thousands of pounds a week the least they can do is get fit and put a shift in, the fact this is being talked about is shocking. I also think these players need looking at mentally as well as physically.

Tony J Williams
95 Posted 01/06/2016 at 13:53:13
Dan, that is one of my biggest gripes about the overpaid primadonnas.

The very least you should be if you are a professional sportsman is fit. No matter what your manager does or make you do, you should know your own body and should be in tip top condition (barring injuries or illness) for the whole season.

The sprinter who is massively built isn't a comparison at all.

He runs 100/200 meters a couple of times every few months competitively, not running/jogging for an hour and a half once or twice a week.

Derek Thomas
96 Posted 01/06/2016 at 13:59:51
Tony @ 89; yes. Google up the case of Isreal Folau played AFL in between playing both RU &RL and changes his body shape/mass, weigh and stamina/speed requirements. Not a great deal, but slimmed down and stamina-ed up...only about 5 or 6kgs out of 98 and was soon running about the massive AFL field.

I don't hear of many hammy's either, knees and other contact type injuries, but not too many hammy's

As I stated it's not top secret it was in the local papers, takes some nouse, dedication and work. but at 70K per week....

Ernie Baywood
97 Posted 01/06/2016 at 14:07:33
Tony, the sprinter is a perfect comparison. Ross wasn't asked to jog around for an hour and a half. When did you see him do that under Martinez?

He walked around, broke into the occasional jog and waited for his moment to show a burst of pace and strength. That was exactly was required of him, demonstrated by the fact he kept on getting picked. Unfortunately we could all see it was a waste of his talent.

Tony Kost
98 Posted 01/06/2016 at 15:35:14
Well done, Ross – now use the tournament to get fit for the coming season with EFC.
Dan Davies
99 Posted 01/06/2016 at 16:02:51
Exactly Tony@95, following a fitness plan shouldn't just be part of the job, it's the players personal attitude too. These boys should be busting a gut in training, it makes me wonder how motivated mentally they really are.
Raymond Fox
100 Posted 01/06/2016 at 16:19:57
Darren, so your calling me a liar in other words.

Lukaku and Baines didn't mention the manager in their utterances did they, if my memory serves me right they said that there wasn't the chemistry between the players.
We are talking about spoiled young men are we not, who if they don't get all their own way will no doubt go into a sulk.

As far as fitness is concerned, have you asked the players about lasting 90 mins, no I thought not, your believing what you want to.

So what about Colemans and Howards comments, are you calling them liars too.
Let's stick to facts not opinions shall we.
Show me anything where players criticised Martinez directly and will hold my hands up.

As far as Martinez's ability is concerned you spotted flaws in his management far in advance of myself, so fair play to you on that.
I will put in a small proviso though Darren, contained in what both Colemam and Howard said about he was also let down by the form of most of the players.

Tony Abrahams
101 Posted 01/06/2016 at 16:55:55
Raymond, Lukaku, talks that much that you probably missed it!

Derek, that's interesting because players must be super fit to play AFL, when you consider the side of the pitch.


Oscar Huglin
102 Posted 01/06/2016 at 17:59:19
On a separate note, Stubbs has gone from success at Hibs to the Championship at Rotherham. Definite future manager if he keeps up the success.
Colin Glassar
103 Posted 01/06/2016 at 18:03:57
Future manager of whom, Oscar? Leeds are always looking for new managers.
Darren Hind
104 Posted 01/06/2016 at 18:14:03
"When things are broken between the manager and the players, it becomes difficult" - Lukaku . . . last week

"show me anywhere where players criticise Martinez directly and I will hold my hands up" - Ray Fox 1/6/16

Get em up Raymond .

Tom Bowers
105 Posted 01/06/2016 at 18:28:41
Back on topic regarding the Euros and Hodgson.
He has spoken today about the players he left out and of course tries to justify it by gushing about how the two in question accepted in a truly wonderful manner. What rot ! We all know they were probably pissed off and calling him for what he is-useless !
He went on to say how he wanted to go with the extra striker and that's why those 2 were sacrificed.
The truth is he is so obsessed with his RS contingent that he wanted Sturridge in despite his injury problems and Rashford is the insurance policy right ?
Raymond Fox
106 Posted 01/06/2016 at 18:47:51
My hands are in the air Darren, 'Its a fair cop'.
Did he say why things were broken?

Toms saying get back on the thread topic, so we better leave it for now Darren no doubt we'll speak again.

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