Premier League Week 8

Anyone else sick to the back teeth with the Sky build up to the biggest derby on earth? They've been going on about it since before the international break and it's nauseating.

They should just call themselves the RedShite - Red Mancs channel. It's a fucking joke and after watching our shower tomorrow, I'm thinking of cancelling my contract.

True Colin. I really do like Jamie Carragher though, his analysis and commentary on Sky is very good and his new columns in the Telegraph are too. I sense that he isn't at all anti-Everton like some of the ex-Red pundits.

This, after being hyped as Match of the Century, is a load of boring drivel. Once again, Sky have sold us a dud.

Colin,

You might be watching the wrong match.

Lovren submitting his bid for an academy award there. God they're a pathetic bunch.

This is a typically very good match of the modern era; for me it's watching paint dry compared to the derby games of many years back.

Moan all you like about the Sky bias, the RS - Manc game is miles better than anything we have produced this season. Jealous – yea too right!

I'll be at Brighton tomorrow, ready for our rejuvenation.

All I would say is that matches like this make me wish a win was worth 5 points instead of just 3. Watching one side line up for a draw and just sit defensively, completely happy to get a 0-0 kills me. It's a Mourinho masterclass.

I was just thinking the same, David. Away from home, against the Sky 6, you just know Jose will go and kill the game through sheer boredom.

I hope they like this shite in Asia.

It's not that this game isn't entertaining. Liverpool are playing some good stuff but have been wasteful, happy to say. It is pathetic to watch United set up like a small club and just hold out for a 0-0. Maybe just change the rule and make a 0-0 worth exactly that many points, zero.

Enjoying this thread. Klopp took Dortmund to the Champions League final before he went to Liverpool. He was diverted by a host of the leading clubs in the world. Conte has won the Serie A with Juventus.

Of course Guardiola and Zidane are recent examples of a managers promoted from reserve teams to the first team with great success. But you could argue they already had great players at the club

My point was there would be harsh criticism of the club, should it promote Unsy and results dipped, that they taken the cheap option. And it would need someone to identify something special about him other than winning the U23 league.

I think we need someone which huge experience of winning at this point in our development. Anceloti or Benitez would be my choice – cracking thread anyway.

ps: As others have pointed out, Lukaku was the Lukaku we saw multiple times against big teams today. Disinterested and lacking desire. Maybe he is the flat-track bully after all and hasn't turned in to a legendary player with all the great players at Man Utd around, him as I keep hearing in the media.

Chris,

Disinterested and lacking desire.

Translation: He's a big shithouse.

Chris,

Did you watch the match? Because what you just typed indicates you did not or you are incredibly ignorant as to the game of football.

Mourinho set that side out to sit deep and do nothing but defend. What great players were surrounding Lukaku in attack today? They camped out in their own half and just hoofed and hoofed.

It's amazing how someone like you will focus on Lukaku, when we have over a decade of watching Mourinho teams play exactly the same way at Anfield and other grounds. He did the same last season in what was widely considered the worst match all year. Educate yourself a bit.

Chris Watts

Drivel! If anything, Man Utd played like Everton do at Anfield. Lukaku had zero service, zero support. That was a joke of a performance by Premier League title contenders. They came for a point and it showed. Mind-numbing.

Thanks for those patronising comments, David. I thought we were free to comment on here but I'll be sure to educate myself before future posts or run them past you first so you can highlight anything ignorant.

I did watch the match and I assume you think the commentators are also ignorant and in need of an education. The ball bounced off Lukaku many times. When he did do something in the first half, he overhit a cross and his one-on-one with the keeper went straight at him. Aside from that, he offered little. Is that okay?

David, I was disappointed but not surprised the way Mourinho set up to frustrate Liverpool, he will be more than happy with the draw. In the second half United hardly attacked at all, they were very sloppy and wasteful with the ball.

All the talk that they will win the Premier League didn't match their performance today and Liverpool are the first decent team they have played this season. Even against us, they took no chances until they scored the second goal. They have a bit more to do to prove they will win the title.

Crikey, Phil. All I've heard for the last couple of weeks is that the reason Lukaku had a dismal record against the top 6 clubs was because of the players around him at Everton. In fact, Souness said it before the match today and the stats showed he's scored 5 goals in the last 35 games against them.

With the quality of players around him at Man Utd, such as Miky and Martial, he didn't look any different to me. So, while the tactics were no doubt negative, he hardly set the world alight.

Chris,

Liverpool's keeper had more touches than Lukaku. The ball wasn't bouncing off him left and right – you've completely made that up. In fact, the ball was hardly ever played to him. When he did get the ball, it was 1 vs 3, sound familiar? He flicked on hoofs from the keeper but the midfield was 20 yards behind the play.

That commentary and media you mention have been in unison talking about another defensive Mourinho performance, where the manager made no attempt to attack Liverpool. Nobody in any corner of the press is blaming Lukaku for that performance.

Martial did nothing in attack, only defending the wing. Young was put on the other wing instead of his usual position at fullback. Mkhitarian was useless in the middle, taken off after 60 minutes of doing nothing. Rashford came on and did nothing other than defend. But you – all you see is Lukaku... It's amazing.

Chris,

Stand your ground mate. You're 100% correct.

Lukaku ever won a header, never won a challenge, out muscled by skinny midfielders. Never put himself about.

Threw a couple of shithouse tackles in to make it look like he was having a go.

Never won a header, never won a challenge? Both demonstrably false. That's not an opinion, it's a clear lie.

Watch the game again and point out the minutes he won a header or won a challenge.

Here I was, thinking that a manager's tactics have an impact on the way a game is played and how the players perform. I mean, I thought we continue to go on about Koeman week after week. Silly me.

It's not as if Mourinho has made a career out of getting 0-0 results away from home. It's not as if he wasn't run out of Madrid for the defensive performances and lack of goals and flair with the greatest attacking players in the game, right? That same exact fixture last season couldn't have been the exact same with Zlatan in attack could it?

Right, Lukaku having a single touch through 23 minutes was clearly down to his lack of desire and in no way due to Man Utd parking the bus and not actually passing it up top during that time. Well, at least now we can move on from believing Koeman is in any way responsible for our horrible attacking play, with no pace or width, and simply know that it's all about the players. I guess I wonder why we even need a manager then. Clearly Mourinho does nothing either.

"Lukaku, who has already scored seven league goals this season, cut a frustrated figure and was often left isolated with United slow to get up the pitch."

Always down to the manager

Just watched – more like survived, that game.

Lukaku cut a lonely frustrated figure up front, isolated, and mostly unsupported. There were a couple of occasions where the ball didn't stick to him and there were a couple of headers he didn't win.

His two biggest moments IMO, apart from upending one of the Man Utd players in frustration, were the one-on-one he hit straight at the keeper and when he strolled out of defence, playing Liverpool player(s) onside and almost gifting them a goal.

He didn't get any sort of service to speak of. I consider this a fair reflection on his performance. Amen :-)

ps: I still think he's a gobshite.

John,

Official match stats have Lukaku winning 5 duels and 4 aerial duels. He's was also the only United player to register a shot on target.

We are currently 17th.

Looking at the Palace score v Chelsea, surely if Woy can turn things round in such fashion, Koeman can... can't he?

Looking on the bright side (if there is one!) our draw at City, despite playing 10 men, is looking better and better as the weeks go by! Seven goals against Stoke today!

I travel to Brighton tomorrow more in hope than expectation but COYB!

Martin, I agree.
A wonderful defensive performance from us to restrict City to one goal.

I was just going to mention how well organised Marco Silva has Watford when... boom!

Tom Cleverly!!!

Koeman Out!

Silva In!

123 years since a team scored as many as Man City in their first 8 league games.

Only one team has restricted them to one goal.

Let's get that defensive solidity back. Three points tomorrow takes us into the top half of the table.

This Silva seems like he might be the next Pochettino. Hmmmm...

I'm not one to say 'I told you so', especially since I haven't made any comments about Marco Silva, but reading about him last season, and how he almost succeeded in keeping Hull from relegation, it was clear there was an exceptional young manager with purpose, direction and motivational skills.

Watch him and Watford go and have a season that leaves us and several other more traditionalist style clubs floundering... I really rate all aspects of his managerial style and results.

Silva would be absolutely perfect for Everton. Sadly the timing's all wrong. We won't be able to prise him away from Watford until the summer, and even that would be extremely fortuitous.

Some people do get carried away. Silva is a novice who relegated Hull and has won a few for Watford. Is all.

Someone says on internet

"Man City are the first English top-flight team to score 29 goals in first 8 league games of the season...since Everton in 1894-95."

Fully expect someone to challenge that coz they were there!

Dermot, I wasn't there but Everton scored 30 goals in their first eight fixtures of the 1894-95 season.

1894

I'd still like us to consider Marco Silva.

Phil (#39) – Silva took the reins early this year (January, I think) with Hull floundering, and he nearly salvaged something for them (with the help of Oumar Niasse – haha).

Novice he may be but did you watch the game this evening? Watford played some good stuff and deserved the win for their endeavour even if the pen was a bit iffy.

Sadly I have to say also they were a damn sight more entertaining to watch than we are currently.

Dermot, we actually scored 30 in those first 8 games, the last of which was a 3-0 win at home to Liverpool. Shouldn't really count though, as five of the eight games were at home.

Phil (#39) Silva didn't relegate them... they were almost a lost cause when he took over and they put up a good fight after he became manager.

I wouldn't write him off so easy. What he does do is give players a belief in themselves... similar to Dyche and you can see that his players play for him. He gives them belief that they can beat anyone... it's 11 against 11 and if you play together, as a team, you have a good chance of winning (or at least not being defeated).

Watford will give any team a game at the moment. He likes to play attractive football and in time a bigger club will make him an offer.

Atletico Madrid showing how it's done again. For years now they've been hard so-and-sos, punching massively above their weight, buying and selling shrewdly and taking it to their posh rivals.

It's about bravery and toughness of mind.

Kim (#43). I am of the view that we already have one. He goes by the name of David Unsworth. I fear though that the present day fixation of premier league teams to find an "experienced" continental or south American manager will mean that the possible gems within arms reach will be overlooked.

I acknowledge that he may only "possibly" be the solution, but do believe he should be given a chance before we hand out another contract for ٤m a year to anyone else.

Silva: career W 134 (54%) D 55 (22%) L 58 (23%)

Koeman: W 356 (54%) D 139 (21%) L 165 (25%)

Aside from rounding up %s, not much in their career rates.

Hull City would have been relegated by March if it wasn't for Silva. The amount of points they picked up at home was more than impressive – beating Liverpool, Swansea, Bournemouth, Middlesbrough, Watford in a short space of time.

Difference being of course that Koeman has been at bigger clubs in general. So maybe you should weight your percentages.

Dermot, interesting stats. I would say that Koeman's record thus far is better because he has more than twice the number of games versus Silva.

Style of football deployed in achieving those results is a different matter of course.

Redgarding your 'novice' comment, Phil Walling, Stephen Davies, Dermott and Mark have pretty well articulated my response to your post.

Unsworth, Silva and Simeone on my shortlist.

Make the list shorter Mark.
Take Simeone's name off it.

David Barks @21

Spot on. I watched it a couple of hours ago and saw him win three headers cleanly and contest another which neither player won cleanly but it fell to a Man Utd player.

I also think you are spot on about tactics. Jose is just another miserable defensive minded manager, but unlike Koeman, he has brains can communicate with his players and they will run through a brick wall for him.

People will put up with not winning if the footballs attractive. They will put up with negative football if they are regularly winning... but who in there right mind wants to see losing negative football?

Our boy Koeman will empty Goodison. When Moshiri was flashing the cash, a great deal of interest was generated; for the first time in years, not everyone could get a season ticket... we actually had a reported 5,000 waiting list. What a pity it has all evaporated, we can't even fill the ground. The hundreds of empty seats you see already will soon turn into thousands if this guy is not off-loaded. Difficult for anybody to get worked up about Zombie Football.

Loving the “greatest derby in the universe” post-mortem being carried out in the RedShite/RedManc obsessed media.

The fact that their overhyped, 3 week build up failed to live up to expectations and, without doubt, disappointed their overseas markets, has the media in a spin. I mean, if the RedShite and fucking Mancs can't deliver a half decent game where does that leave the rest of us mere mortals?

Jose is now public enemy No 1 for not laying down and allowing Herr Klopp to show the world his full range of body spasms and his excessive amount of teeth. That is just not cricket.

I watched it at 5:30am. Sleep pattern all over the place at the minute. He was still poor tbh.

Presuming Koeman, as expected, predictably plays his usual awful tactics and we lose the game at Brighton, I would expect him to be sacked in the next few weeks. If we win, it will give him a stay of execution. I hope we win, we desperately need the points.

The short-term solution, if we lose, will presumably be to give Unsworth the job on a temporary basis. Then depending on results, he will either be replaced at Christmas by a more experienced manager or given the rest of the season to prove he's the right man for the job.

Let's face it, we're in a real crisis, whatever solution is found it won't be easy for Unsworth or the next man to turn the season round, most of the bottom clubs won yesterday, to add extra pressure. Like most supporters, I have a really bad feeling about this season and where we could end up.

Unsy and Ferguson until Xmas, Trevor.

Selecting a Head Coach is the biggest risk that a club can take and the risk is minimised by hiring somebody with proven experience. There is a massive difference between the pressure of running a Premier League club and running a junior team at that club under the supervision of a Head Coach.

Pushing Unsy up is a big risk and fairy tales don't come true often, If it were to happen I'd prefer to see an experienced assistant manager come in to provide him with support on a season-by-season basis.

Not sure where the support for Ferguson comes from, he's not setting the world on fire as a Koeman lackey.

I'm still hopeful that Koeman manages to turn it around enough for mid-table – then we can change him in the summer. Otherwise ,we might as well get Sam Allardyce in to keep us up until the summer.

Coaches have to start somewhere and yes, being plunged in at the deep end in the Premier League is a big ask. Little things like changing Heaton for Harvey can make a massive difference as we have seen so forgetting his past is it time to wave goodbye to Koeman and bring in Lee as his assistant?

I'd love to see Unsy given a chance but if it failed he'd be lost to the club as it always seems to pan out they never revert to their former job after tasting the main man position. And even if he did revert back, would he have the same heart for the job? It's all very complicated except the fact that Koeman appears clueless.

He's obviously being shackled, Martin. Didn't you see him celebrating the goals against Bournemouth? That's the type of passion we need.

I'm only saying to use them in the short term (if not successful) until Ancellotti is available.

Martin, does your logic ever sober up?

You talk about proven experience as if it was a given that it was the better option. Why? How many managers have we had in your lifetime, whose experience was proven, went on to become successful?

The crowd across the park dominated for years when they appointed a shy unassuming member of the backroom staff to take over from Shankly. He dominated Europe for years.

It's utter bollocks to rule out giving promising coaches a shot in order to allow "proven experience" to hog the show... it's really worked a treat so far, hasn't it?

Sorry Darren, no responses to that tone.

Colin Harvey.

Pep Guardiola

Howard Kendall – that's manager-wang!

Family day today here in New Brighton - - watch the match with eldest daughter,Helen, and eldest Grandson,Liam, and straight after the game to Holywell - - take a dip in the water - - like we did in the 50's and 60's (getting the old green and cream Crossville Bus at Birkenhead) with my Nin and Mum tucking their skirts up and wading into the ice cold water - - to be saved or forgiven or just to respect their religion - - meeting up with youngest daughter (Julie) and granddaughters (Abbie and Charlotte) who now live in Holywell - - and God Bless them (Blue's All) - - I will dip my toe into the well - - close my eyes and dream for a moment - - thinking maybe this is the day, the new start, a new dawn, a new future.

"Praise The Lord for Victory" as Granma Joad says.

And we'll walk down the avenue again
And we'll sing all the songs from way back when
And we'll walk down the avenue again and the healing has begun
And we'll walk down the avenue in style
And we'll walk down the avenue and we'll smile
And we'll say "ain't it all worthwhile?" when the healing has begun.

And your heart, your heart - - will fly away.

Here's hoping - - Right now at 10.48 Sunday morning I can see the River running across from Garston to Ellesmere port below a grey cloud but with a line of pure silver tinged with specks of gold - - twinkling like Monet or Pissaro - - or maybe a Sisley - - certainly gives a feel of something positive and the end of greyness - - and my goodness we need it:

FLOW on, ye lays so loved, so fair,
On to Oblivion's ocean flow!
May no rapt boy recall you e'er,
No maiden in her beauty's glow!
My love alone was then your theme,
But now she scorns my passion true.
Ye were but written in the stream;
As it flows on, then, flow ye too!

Busy old fool, unruly sun,
Why dost thou thus,
Through windows, and through curtains call on us?
Must to thy motions lovers' seasons run?
Saucy pedantic wretch, go chide
Late school boys and sour prentices,
Go tell court huntsmen that the king will ride,
Call country ants to harvest offices,
Love, all alike, no season knows nor clime,
Nor hours, days, months, which are the rags of time.

We Evertonians - - we are Truly The Brave, The Watchers, The Searchers, The Believers and yes The Faithful - - it's easy to follow everyone else's favourites, everyone else's dream - - we are The Dreamers - - Our Friendship is tied and bound in our Search:

"When I wake up in the morning I'm gone
And I need a friend to lean upon
Why don't you see what you can do?
See me through"

It's now 11.02 and I am just going to get showered, shaved and dressed - - but first - - picked up my Chromatic and had a Blow:
I've been walking by the river
I've been walking down by the water
I've been walking down by the river
I've been feeling so sad and blue
I've been thinking, I've been thinking, I've been thinking,
I've been thinking, I've been thinking, I've been thinking,
Ah there's so much suffering, and it's
Too much confusion, too much, too much confusion in the world
Take me back, take me back, take me back
Take me way back, take me way back, take me way back
Take me way back, take me way back, take me way back
Take me way back, take me way back, ah!
Take me way, way, way, way, way, way, way back, huh!

So before the game (and always) I am sending those Big Blue Cosmic Grooves to you all - - with a Blow on The Harmonica - - and a firm handshake (A La Vincent) :
And the sky was blue
And you didn't have no worries, you didn't have no care
You were walking in a green field
In a meadow, through the buttercups, in the summertime
And you looked way out over, way out
Way out over the city and the water
And it feels so good, and it feels so good
And you keep on walking
And the music on the radio, and the music on the radio
Has so much soul, has so much soul
And you listen, in the night time
While we're still and quiet
And you look out on the water
And the big ships, and the big boats
Came on sailing by, by, by, by
And you felt so good, and I felt so good
I felt I want to blow my harmonica

And there you go - - just had a cosmic moment blowing my harmonica - -Blowing for The Blues, Blowing for You and Blowing for Me and Blowing for The Light.

Your friend - - George

And cosmic vibes back at you, George.

Cosmic grooves received here in Korumburra George.
On and on and on.

Up the Blues!!

Assuming that the current dirge continues, this may be the perfect opportunity to give Unsworth a chance. Appoint him till the end of the season. If it works, great. If it doesn't, we've got time to find someone for next season.

If there was any chance of bringing Cahill back from Oz, I'd love to see that as well. A winner with a fabulous attitude.

When did Pep manage Everton, Laurie?

Ancellotti with Unsy as his assistant. Dream team!

Hi George,
Van the man fan, I take it, and me also- – more so is early work.

A quick story...

He once got me removed from a gig because I kept asking him to play "Listen to the Lion". He was playing two nights at a small hotel for charity; I was quite close to him, maybe 7 or 8 feet away and every time he finished a song, I whispered through my hands looking straight at him "Please play Listen to the Lion". He just stared at me.

Four or five songs into the gig, two bouncers arrived each side of me and asked me politely could they have a word outside. I asked why and they said the usual bollocks – let's not make a scene etc etc.

Anyway, I walked out with them and ended up in the bar getting pissed – my friends kept coming out to tease me and were having a right laugh.

After the gig, we ended up partying with Van's band till the wee small hours. They kept looking to leave our company but we insisted on one more.

The reason they wanted to get to bed was that Van had insisted on getting up early to take the lads (three were English) on an early morning tour of Donegal.

Now talk about Karma...

Myself and my friends were also staying the night in the hotel and we had continued to party on in my room.

At around 7:30am, there was a loud knock on the door of my room and I stumbled across to open it and when I did – guess who was standing right in front of me? Yep, Van the man – he was looking for the band's rooms. We just looked at each other , I had nothing but my boxers on and was probably looking like a madman.

Van grunted "Wrong room" and walked up the hallway as quick as he could; what he didn't know was that it was a cul-de-sac and he had to come past me again to leave! When he realised this, he started banging on doors like a man possessed, with me standing in the hallway, laughing my balls off, singing Rave on Rave on at him.

Eventually he got into a room, and I tip-toed up to the room he got into to listen and I could hear the commotion going on Van telling the people there was a drunk madman outside in the nude and to phone reception, at which point the door opened – I just stood there laughing and it was a girl and a fella who knew me and they started to laugh also.

Just then, the receptionist arrived with a guy and both were "Good morning, sir, is everything okay? I'm sorry sir but you can't be standing about with no clothes on and annoying other guests. Please go back to your room."

Well, I did just that, but not before I shouted (just to wind him up) "Van , no matter were you go today, we'll be right behind you!"

I've told that story fondly a few times over the years and also to musicians who have played with him.

Have a lovely day, George.

Koeman has to go; he's lost the dressing room and the team are a shambles.

John (#69) – never, but I do believe he managed Barcelona's reserves before he was promoted head coach of the first team.