Champions League Semi-Finals, 1st Leg

Well I guess the cells around Liverpool and Merseyside will be crammed full of the gobshites, as there have been flares all round the ground, particularly by the Arkles pub.

I'm also hearing reports of the Roma coach being bottled and flares thrown at it, although cannot find any evidence of this.

The Police go out of their way not to arrest any football fans. It's not good for the Police, the City, the Clubs (RS and Roma), or UEFA. You saw it at the couple of games where we had trouble at Goodison and the Police's attitude was just to get the away fans out of there as quick as possible to prevent anything else.

And with the home fans their attitude is to remove or detain and not to prosecute. They need to keep those crime figures down too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/2551113/liverpool-fans-take-to-the-streets-and-light-flares-ahead-of-champions-league-semi-final-clash-against-roma/amp/#ampshare=https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/2551113/liverpool-fans-take-to-the-streets-and-light-flares-ahead-of-champions-league-semi-final-clash-against-roma/

The police are clamping down on them.

Apologies for using The Sun

Have you ever seen fans dancing on top of a police van letting flares off Steve?

Coz I haven't.

It's double standards once again for the fans of a club with a shameful history.

WTF are the police doing, letting the scumbags gather on top of those vans? Should they be damaged in any way, who will pay for repairs, because you can be sure as hell the club wont.

Our current dearth of quality football in complete contrast to what is being served up at Anfield this evening. Interestingly Liverpool seem to have assembled a group that can actually pass to each other... and that Mo Salah looks handy.

Just find me a good hiding place on the Champions League Final!

Amen Jim. Depressing stuff. To their credit, their football is wonderful, their coach is excellent, their ownership is top notch.

I'm going to go throw up now.

Jim, I'm feeling sick in the stomach just at the thought of it.

Jim - #24,

Can I hide with you? I seriously might emigrate to somewhere like Norway if they win it. Oh wait, maybe Norway isn't the best place to go to.

Didn't Salah cost the same as Bolasie?

Hhhhhhhhuuuuuurrrrrrrr .

We all know Liverpool will probably win the Champions League and win it playing brill football.

Reality as it is. Hard hard hard to take but for fucks sake stand tall lads.

Jamie, each to their own, but it really isn't rocket science though. It's built on speed and it's built on energy, the total opposite of what we have to endure every week.

Sickening! My stupid sis-in-law is all over Facebook with the build-up.- can't bear to watch the horrible possiblity of those twats winning it. Hope they concede an away goal please, please

If I was the head of Bayern or Real's merchandising department, I'd flood Liverpool with jerseys.

Surely half the city will buy one very soon?

... I remember over the years thinking to myself that when Keegan . Souness... Dalglish... Rush . Owen Fowler . Gerrard et al have gone they'll struggle/ go into decline.

Thought so again this year when Coutinho (who seemed to be their best player) left.

Should have known better I suppose.

Only if they beat them in the final Jamie mate, because it's gonna be like Dunkirk, for us blues, if these bastards do get to the final!

Not watching anymore. Can't bear it. I've put derby v Cardiff on instead.

Hahahaha Tony. That made me literally LOL.

Dunkirk indeed.

3-0... and clearly not finished yet.

I knew Roma would fold. I thought 3 - 0 before kick off but it will be more.

Agree Jim. The Liverpool front 3 are all smallish guys but have pace, skill and composure – particularly Salah.

As I write Salah sets up the 4th (sigh) with a composed run and pass across the box for a tap in.

Wonder what Bolasie would have done in the same position?

And it's now 4. Sad but light years ahead.

Bobby, we all knew Roma before the semi final draw was made.

I'm at work here in 'Merica listening on satellite radio.

I'm turning it off. They just booked the final. Roma isn't built to score enough to come back.

Why God, why?

At least we're one of the few teams to have stopped Liverpool from scoring this season.

So we sell our best player (Rom) for £75m . and collapse.
They sell their best player (Coutinho) for £100m+ . and get better.
Doesn't seem very fair does it.

5-0

Salah, Firmino and Mané cost pretty much the same as Bolasie, Tosun, and Sigurdsson.

Colin that hurts...

Against their B team as they rested players to beat City and get to this point.

I normally love dark humor. That one stung a bit.

Colin that hurts...

Against their B team as they rested players to beat City and get to this point.

I normally love dark humor. That one stung a bit.

It tastes worse when you lose in a final than a semi.

And now 5. Roma a disgrace.

I guess the tie is all over anyway.

Colin, I fear you may have been listening to too many of Sam's press conferences.

If it's real Madrid, they've got a chance. If it's Bayern then the bastards will win it.

I'm torn between Bayern or Real. Which one has the best chance?

As Liverpool March on to yet another European Cup final/ Champions League final doing the City proud the Muppets that run our club can't give us anything to cling to.Still pissing about with stadium funding and manager appointment.

It's painful at the moment supporting Everton and as all the turmoil and broken promises goes on all around us all our fans can do is hound Allardyce on forums and wave one silly banner in the St End. Energy and anger all directed in the wrong places.Our focus totally gone.

Liverpool will piss the final and we will carry on moaning about Sam and falling for the board's bullshit. Just like old times again... Thanks Dad for making me a Blue!!!

Definitely Real madrid, Chris.

Mike

Very true mate!

Regardless of whether Sam Allardyce is here or not there's no way a team of mediocre players like Bolasie, DCL, Tosun, Rooney, Davies, Schneiderlin, Gueye etc are going to be challenging anyone but Burnley at a push.

When you compare that Liverpool signed Firminho, Mane, Salah, Robertson etc etc for cheaper it's quite unreal how far ahead Klopp has got them and he's only been there himself just over 2 years!

Rob - I'm not convinced that Real would beat them but we've got to hope that Klopp's absymal record in finals continues.

It's a killer to say, but fate conspires and now Liverpool will take some stopping.

If this doesn't get the board thinking, then there is no hope.

Hope, and hope, but crunch time soon for EFC. Surviving and existing but never likely with this squad to win anything. Sick to the back teeth.

Don't despair. There's the away goal Roma wanted. Pity they let 5 in first! FFS!!

One more for Roma to keep hope alive??

Clearly I can't turn away from looking at the car crash.

Come back is on. 5-2

Come on!!!!

Only 3 needed now.

I'm getting updates on me phone. Derby are beating Cardiff 2-1. 😂😂

Why Oh why are some obsessed with them?
Keep ToffeeWeb Blue ffs.
Go and discuss em on Twatter.

Allardyce has just been asked about the Liverpool result – he reckoned Roma won last 10 minutes 2 Nil!!!!

Keep TW Blue!

I certainly have the blues

Because we are bitter Brian.

I for one despise them. Glimmer of hope at the end there. I'm relying on Real as a last hope.

They're a 70-minute team as they can't keep up that tempo for any longer. All Roma have to do is defend like mad for an hour (in Rome) then batter them 3-0. Easy innit?

If they win the Champions League we will finally be confirmed as a city's second club in the style of Espanyol and Torino. Miles away from the big boy neighbours who feast at the top table with no chance of ever gatecrashing. They will be reestablished as a top European club with a top manager and a top team and will be attractive to the elite level players.

Two years ago we thought with Moshiri coming in we would have a chance to at least have a go. Sadly, I think he has just presided over a shambles and sucked the soul out the club. It feels worse than when we were down the bottom because at least there was heart about the place. Last night I came out of the ground thinking I'd never known it so tepid. It wasn't even poisonous, it was just nothing.

I am getting a season ticket next year purely because I want to fulfil my ambition and family tradition of taking my son the game regularly but I know we face more of the same for the foreseeable future, if not forever.

Who gives a flying one who they play, when they play, how they play or in what competition they play unless they are playing Everton.

The Champions League is an ugly competition. Liverpool are an ugly club, so it's a perfect match. Some Champions? Obviously can't work out how to stop one tiny player who looks like Cat Stevens.

Weird game.

For the first 30 minutes Roma were the better side. They pinned Liverpool's full-backs (who are important to how Klopp sets them up) deep in their own half. They weren't giving the pinkies a sniff and were looking threatening themselves.

Then, until half-time, Liverpool started playing the long ball to turn the Roma defence. The home side got up a bit of a head of steam, but still, Roma contributed to their own downfall.

Roma, of all teams, should know better than to give their ex-player Salah either the space anywhere around the penalty area to get a shot off, or give him clear space to run into. From looking comfortable, the visitors found themselves 2-0 down at half-time.

Roma then looked an absolute mess at the start of the 2nd half, with the centre back Fazio in particular AWOL. Okay, Salah was probably offside when running through to set up Mane, but when Firmino made it 5-0; 6, 7, 8 looked on the cards.

Subbing off Salah looked an astute energy-saving move, but what it did was give Roma some relief. From a mad half hour in which they conceded 5 goals, suddenly, it was all Roma again. Two goals clawed back and a third looking likely.

It's unlikely Roma can repeat their remarkable result achieved in the quarters vs Barcelona, but for sure, their fans will believe it.

All very nicely set up for the 2nd leg.

Oh! And I'd take any one of Strootman, Kolarov or Nainggolan from Roma's midfield for Everton, ta very much.

Jay, I thought exactly the same, regarding the first half. Roma were looking comfortable, and if that shot that rattled the Liverpool crossbar had gone in to make it 1-0, then almost certainly Roma would have defended a lot deeper.

God knows what their goalie was doing for the second goal as he was in no man's land, giving salah an easy goal.

Never watched the second half so I can't comment on it.

Jay -

The satellite radio commentators mentioned Roma playing a very high line against Liverpool.

Why on earth would anyone do that, up against that blinding pace?

Frustrating if that was the case.

On the road at Mordor in a two-legged affair, pack it in like the Alamo and defend for your lives. Go for the win at home.

Roma will never score 3 - and they'll need 4. There's no way they'll stop them from scoring.

Ugh.

Keep crying it in Jamie, it's football, anything can happen haha!

You have to hand it to Michael Angelis, he has shed a few pounds and looks a good player for Liverpool.

I thought playing Chrissy from Boys from the Blackstuff was his high point – but at the moment he is going to win the Champions League for the shite singled handed.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=qeGdZ3Yd&id=C694E50A8581A7CFC7B5933C06F255A4A988CE97&thid=OIP.qeGdZ3YdSuY631KJ3XjrKQHaFf&q=michael+angelis&simid=607988352867962157&selectedIndex=22&qpvt=michael+angelis&ajaxhist=0

Yeah Rob, Roma's 1st half shot against the crossbar was truly woeful keeping by the pinkies goal stopper. Different game if that goes in.

Jamie, from what I saw I don't think that the problem was a particularly high defensive line played by Roma. I think it was more a problem of both their full-backs tucking in too much, making the pitch narrower but conceding space on the flanks which the pinkies are very good at exploiting. That, and the centre back Fazio being a total liability in all he did (or rather, didn't do!).

It was weird to see for me, because defensively – both the defence itself and in midfield – Roma are usually so much more solid than they displayed tonight.

Either side of the barmy 30 minutes in which they conceded 5 goals, Roma really were the better side. Even the Kopites, from 5 goals up, were subdued, biting their nails and anxiously awaiting the final whistle at the end.

Our loveable neighbours have probably done enough to get through, but if Roma can repeat the controlled tenacity they displayed in turning over Barcelona 3-0, there is still hope.

And wouldn't that be sweet to witness..?

Hope that works. Dead ringer for Salah in Boys from the Blackstuff.

Boys from the Black Stuff, Chrissy - "me rabbits" - didn't he kill them?

Not campaigning for anything, Brian.

Just being myself and writing in my own words.

Hope that's allowed.

Liverpool's game has always been built on speed over the years which can always keep opponents off balance hence they are difficult to beat despite not being able to win the Premier League.

This season, they have hit the motherlode with the front three and have usually beaten many teams within the first half hour and of course, it's even more galling watching the garbage Everton have served up this season.

I cannot see Roma making up 3 goals for the second time in a row so sadly Liverpool will be in the final again and will probably win it which may finally satisfy the big American investment company who have poured millions into them.

Roll on next season!!!!

Anyone remember the great Caroline Aherne interview Debbie McGee:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-legend-ian-rush-upstaged-12421902.amp

Just to find something funny...

Dermot — what was it that attracted Sam to the billionaire Moshiri?

Be my guest Jay. I'm no censor. I just don't think it works, that's all. Nor does 'pinkies' for that matter!

No better time than now for some mad Russian to push that button. Sad for the future of mankind but I would take it right now.

Thanks for your permission and approval, Brian.

I'm humbled.

To be honest (is that still allowed in football?) even in our hey-day 60's Liverpool matched us in terms of what we/they won. It's got worse in every successive decade, including the 80's.

The British media have adored LFC ever since they got Shankly. For some weird reason they preferred charismatic him to the anti-media, miserable-on-a-good-day Catterick. Hell, for some weird reason they now prefer the charismatic Klopp to our Sam!

But on the English media love-in for Liverpool, for what it's worth (and frankly it's not worth much to me given the increasing disinterest I have in football as the Premier League charges on in its subservience to the CL) the media in other countries employ British pundits and they generally venerate Everton as "a sleeping giant" or some other such cliche, without gushing superlatives all over our neighbours.

Taking the sleeping giant analogy further I fear we've become comatose as potential CL competitors in the past two years (and for decades before that in fairness). I just hope Moshiri has the football equivalent of defibrillators now in his hands and at least a vague idea of where to place them on the nigh-on corpse he's so carefully created whilst relying on Kenwright for guidance.

Nice one Brent!

They just keep pressing mid-fields until something breaks. Gotta give credit to Klopp.

Almost all of our threads in here reference the lack of leadership and cohesion at the executive-management level. Criticism both true and correct to complain about. Nothing better shows the difference between the city of Liverpool's two clubs; this RS swash-buckling squad. The difference?

Fucking Henry of the Fenway Group. This N.Y. Yankee fan is not surprised he is as laser-focused in winning at footy as he is at winning the World Series here in our baseball.

If it doesn't work one way (including wasting money on talent), he keeps chopping and changing until he has a squad can win things.

Scandinavia up in arms that two Americans nearly brought the club to administration. And here's more Americans in 2010? Outrage. What does Henry do?

Bring in a way over-the-hill King Kenny, to shut them up. Even gives him the Torres money. Him and Damien Comolli. Scored well with Suarez, yet blows the Carroll money AND finished below their local rival. Less than two years later both cut loose.

Gave Rogers a go. He couldn't realize he just had to park the bus and let the flying Suarez-Sturridge-Sterling trio counter-attack teams into submission to the title? Bye bye.

Here's what Henry has in common with Mr. Moshiri. He doesn't know shit about playing football. Just like baseball. What he does know, though, is getting in the right people to run his company to success. This he knows.

So, Mr. Moshiri take a lesson. Klopp, Salah? Not important.

Important? Cut loose the old regime, first and foremost. It all starts from the top. Always has, always will. It's taken Henry 7-8 years to where the RS are. If that how it plays for us, I'll accept it. But clear out the executive-level deadwood.

As long as we're going forward.

Great post, James Flynn.

Erm..., I thought the song went 'We don't care what the Red Shite say... etc'?

James Flyer, 65# That has to be one of the best posts I have seen all year on here. You nailed it beautifully. There is a ruthlessness to winning that is a singular focus to successful people. Without it there is only the element of luck and I am fed up hoping for the breadcrumbs of good fortune from the EFC boardroom.

I really should try to get back to sleep.. even at 3am Everton is on my mind.. will it ever end?

Christine shouldn't go to sleep... and...

James Flynn, patriot American, nails it.

I said, the moment NESV took over el poo, I was scared.

I said they'd win. They know exactly what they are doing.

It's really all down to ownership and their vision.

Henry & Co. are a well run machine.

And I love them. They own and run my beloved Red Sox. And they are doing the same with that lot...

I pray Moshri has their vision and nuance. I really do.

And that's it in a nutshell.

As Mr. Flynn says as long as we are going forward.

James Flynn, with a message to Moshiri, the man who said he his prepared to write some games off?

Great post James, great sense, it's obvious to me that first Moshiri, has to get rid of the great Evertonian, the great escapist, and the greatest stadium in the world!

It seems like only a week since Citeh were the greatest team of all time. Now the RS.

For sure they're hot, and look positively futuristic compared to Dinosaur Sam's one shot wonders.

Love them or HATE them you have to admit that they learned, a long time ago, how to manipulate the media to their advantage.

The British media, especially the BBC, have long been in their back pocket, with their fawning and stomach-churning coverage of everything Liverpool but it's also the world media. From CNN, ESPN to China News, RT etc...the hero worship is endless and probably helps add hundreds of thousands of glory hunters to their fan base each year.

I would say only Real Madrid, and perhaps Barcelona, can match this unstoppable feeding frenzy. Not even Man U can match them when it comes bigging up the ‘invincible reds' despite the fact that they've won jack shit for years now.

Someone wrote that we, Everton, are in danger of becoming the second team in the city akin to Espanyol or Torino. Ffs we have been the city's minnows for the last 30-odd years and continue to fall ever further behind. Wake up ffs, we are shite and the world knows it.

Hang-on, they haven't won it yet. There is nothing like the feeling of anti-climax, as Madrid win the final 2-0 and Salah is sold to them in the summer.

The fact we had 11 trophyless seasons under Moyes tells you all you need to know about this club. No club with any ambition would allow that. Moyes was even offered a new deal before he decided to move on if I remember correctly. Pathetic.

The only consolation is that Liverpool are serial losers in finals over the last decade, so hopefully they'll end up weeping at the end of the final. Their midfield lacks creativity but is high energy, so sides have to match them there for intensity and push their full backs towards their own box. Roma did it well for 30 minutes then inextricably lost discipline and caved in.

But it does show what investing in a world class coach does for a club, when supported by a well-run recruitment department. We have the money to do it but our mentality stops us. That has to begin with clearing out the board room, plus the hierarchy in all parts of the club associated with the last 20 years. That would give a new director of football and coaching team a fighting chance of incremental improvement.

In many ways Colin, We are different people. A fella from Hertfordshire done a book a few years ago, it's about all the grounds in England. Loads of pictures, not so much writing, his piece on Archibald Leitch, was great.

Anyway, he said himself that we might be from the same city, but we are not the same people. He said it's inspiring the way Liverpool fans get behind the team, but it's Everton, who he would have hated to play against the most.

He said Evertonians, don't give up chipping away at the opposition, and he had seen many a player's head go, from his vantage point, as a cameraman.

You only have to read ToffeeWeb to know this, and you only have to remember Bayern Munich to know what it's like when Evertonians really get behind the team.

I remember reading after that Bayern game that Everton's crowd was heard by Picton Clock that night, which just shows you how powerful a tool that Goodison Park can be, if we can just get a team that plays with all their hearts...

Before you leave Bill, can you just please tell Farhad this.

James Flynn #75. Take a bow, sir. This should be the TW equivalent of a pinned tweet.

As a club, we have to make a decision. Do we want to focus on success or do we want to focus on good old cuddly, innocuous, give an old pro a home, he's got to be a Blue/get the club, Everton?

Give me winners. Most of them are sharp enough to understand the other stuff. Doesn't work the other way round. We know that better than anyone.

And a new day and the character forming experience of supporting Blues continues. 57 years and what a character I have.

To be honest, I see Premier League as well as Champions League becoming just a rich man's party I wasn't invited to. As they play their games on channels I don't subscribe to and the media go nuts on platforms I don't go on either, I think I will become like 90% of footy fans and like a good game by my team and moan at a crap one. What the world's elite do is not in my world.

I think it may be most painful for clubs like us as we have a history and lurk around the cloakroom outside the big party. But we know that, even if we get the doorman to let us into the cloakroom, we cannot get into the main event.

To some it will be an achievement to get into the cloakroom and peer through the ornate doors and watch the proper guests party. Others like me and certainly others on TW, we will just drift away. As each year passes, who was at that year's party will be harder to nail down. "One of the same old lot."

In an increasingly winner takes all culture and economy our kids and grandkids will face a choice between ancient and frankly boring stories from Dad and Granddad about Everton and their social media world giving them only one option of who to support.

The cool kids will support the rich and glamorous one and those nerdy outcasts will support Everton and feel subversive due to EitC projects.

But funny thing is my political choices are always for limiting the size of the rich man's party. There, the same rich men control the media and present themselves as the best option.

It may be just my mood today but mind pulling between aspirations for Everton and feeling a naive prat that the rich kids inside their party laugh at as I try and get past the bouncer.

What I think will happen is, season by season, my interest will fade and though I will watch games through free streams, I think I will give it all little thought between those games and the mega clubs will be as interesting to me as the Royal Family.

Anyway, who cares/ I never liked champagne or truffles.

James Flynn #75 - well said, sir. It might take 7/8 years to get "there", as you say, but I'd be satisfied to see progress, year-by-year, on the way to "there". Great post.

Does anyone really think it was just coincidence Kenwright sold his stake in the club to someone who would let him stay in position? Of course, this is the reason he let Moshiri come on board – he wouldn't even meet with City's owners.

I'm scared that Kenwright has done Moshiri up like the proverbial kipper. "Farhad, son, leave it to me, I'll look after your investment like nobody else."

The man is a consummate pro when it comes to getting people to do what he wants. Philip Green, Robert Earl, 100,000 Evertonians and now another billionaire all look at him like a cuddly old grandpa, who loves Everton. In reality, he's ran rings around everyone. I've always admired how he can manipulate a whole institution such as EFC for his own financial gain, and still get away with it after 20 years. He's an absolute genius. Wipe away a fake tear and every Blue out there will cry with him.

We're a "community" club folks. Too far gone now. The big fish are long gone, making more money in 3 months than we do all year. The final nail in the coffin will be Lady Barrett-Baxendale being made CEO.

Well said Dermot.

One of my greatest fears is that at some point they'll come up with a European Super League or something daft, and we'll be left out of that league pyramid and consigned to the history bin as a local side. The new league setups all tend to be closed shops and would slam the door shut on us fighting our way up there.

UEFA do seem to be trying their best to keep the big clubs in check, and they're adhering to some demands to stop the big clubs all leaving UEFA and setting up their own organisation, ie the Super League.

Chris (53), Chris that's the spirit, your little boy will thank you in the future, things will get better, yes they really will.

James Flynn nice post, Moshiri has only been here two years, he's got to unravel twenty years of wastage by Kenwright, give him time and a better boardroom team around him and see the difference.

Everyone thought Roma were out of the competition after the first leg versus Barcalona, they proved different, let's see what happens in the second leg.

Kevin 91,

It will never, NEVER, change while we have this professional phony associated with our club.
He has been a plague to our club since day one.

And still we have intelligent people amongst our fans who back him.

One of the things I fail to understand is the universal admiration for Real Madrid.

I'm not a hater of Liverpool FC. There's too many reds in the family to hate them. My dad brought me up to be no fan of Manchester, and everything in and from it. But I don't hate United or City.

I do hate Real Madrid. I find it very curious that so many happily walk around with Madrid shirts on in any city in the world I've been to. This is a club is a completely shameful history, continuously as well. The team of the fascists, of Franco, of the Royal Family, a team continuously given money by the government, by the city, and even just a few years ago they had their debts wiped out by selling a portion of the car park for a ridiculous fee.

They're a despicable club, the real reason the European Cup was set up was so Real could show the domination of the fascist ideals. The whole Franco chapter is disgusting. They shouldn't be anyone's second favourite club, and they should not be able to shrug off their history by hiding behind Galaticos paid for by dubious loans from the Spanish and Madrid governments and from commerce built on a false reputation.

Steve well said indeed I totally agree

Very difficult to watch that last night after watching Everton the night before. We have become a laughing stock. It seems to me nothing has improved under Moshiri and we are further away from the top six than we ever were. I see no method in our play and the playing staff's stock is lower than it has ever been in the last ten years.

Of all the young players I had high hopes for virtually none of them have come through to the first team and this year will see a clear out of many of them. Worse still we are saddled with a squad of players we paid top dollar for yet have little sell-on value.

Koeman and Walsh have a lot to answer for and it is criminal to think they are still being paid by the club. I for one don't blame Allardyce and think a lot of the vitriol hurled at him is misdirected. He has done the job he was brought in to do but he isn't the person to take us forward.

Steve 95: interesting stuff. As the Super League develops it will be interesting to look at the investors. The bored global financial elites, sat in their high security estates, too scared to leave..

The only thing that gives me hope, though not for my lifetime, is there is one thing as certain as day following night through human history that is empires collapse.

Oh to be my great great grandson who goes with 150,000 local people to the Everton Community Stadium to watch live football. Meanwhile Real Liverpool play Real Madrid in front of 15,000 old folks in the Total International Global Cup .screened on QVC channel, the one just above the online Virtual Reality Headset shopping channel.

And as our team comes onto the pitch, the fans roar and that famous song bounces back and forth across the river:

"And if..ya know..your community "!

Steve 95,

I'm with you 100% against the right wing background of Real.

My unashamed hatred for Liverpool FC means I would back a side with a joint management of Hitler and Pol Pot against them.

Lol John G

Yup, I'm with John G. Real could turn out in brown shirts and swastikas, singing the theme tune from Jim'll Fix It and handing out copies of The Sun, and I'd still want them to beat the Shite. Though, ideally, the ground would explode as the teams came out.

😂😂
That's the spirit Michael

Kevin @ 91; spot on. Forget Bill's bit-part acting career, his day job is getting people, called 'angels' in the trade, to invest in the roar of the greasepaint and the smell of the crowd and put money into his productions.

He has worked his well-honed spiel on Moshiri good style... "Leave it with me, Mosh, you pay me 㿅M and I'll keep on top of the footie side (but with no real responsibly... nowt to do with me, see Mr 49.9%") while you sort out the stadium.'

Full cake and eat it job.

I've said it before; whether he likes it or not, Moshiri has to take control of the WHOLE deal, the sky money can only do so much and he's 'only' a billionaire singular. How long – now he's spent and wasted the Stones and Lukaku money – can he keep spunking 150M plus a season before his own accountants pull him up.

More likely than a European Super League is a World Club competition as reported in The Guardian.

Fifa will hold a special meeting next month over a $25bn offer to revitalise the Club World Cup and also create a global national team competition to replace the Confederations Cup.

In the proposal to Fifa the Club World Cup would be played in June or July every four years and have 12 European teams, including the Champions League finalists and Europa League winners from the previous four seasons. If a club qualified on merit multiple times, entries would be allocated according to the Uefa ranking system.

Yet another competition that Everton won't be involved in during our lifetimes?

Club World Cup

Michael Lynch, I couldn't have put it any better, well said that man.

John, it's not just background though, the were still up to tricks recently. Financial doping they call it. However, Spain's economy has tanked and they cannot get away with propping Real up anymore.

Barcelona have a lot of good ideals, and their lack of sponsor, and use of Unicef was commendable. However, they're not whiter than white and the Spanish TV deal stinks and is geared to ensuring that Spain only ever has two clubs competitive, which makes Simeone's job in Spain even more astonishing.

Real are kicking up a fuss about Chelsea, Man City and now PSG. Serie A are constantly kicking off about the wealth of the English clubs, as Italy's economy is in the toilet and they cannot compete as a result.

What they're trying to do now, is to guarantee the "big names" places in the champions league, more money from the champions league which in turn can improve their own chances of remaining in the Champions League and so work towards becoming the closed shop.

PSG "loaning" Mbappe to get around financial fair play is a disgrace and UEFA needs to do something about that. PSG are a loathesome club. Their history is recent. They are formed in the 70s from a merger of small Paris clubs. They were never big side. They barely survived in Ligue 1 until recently. They've always had financial backing that exceeds what you would expect for a club of their size and lack of tradition. They never really had a fan base. Then in the last years they have had some success and the Qataris have come in and turned them into the French Man City and suddenly from nowhere they are the biggest club in France, meanwhile the traditional biggest clubs in France, Marseille and St Etienne, have both spent time in Ligue 2, as have Monaco!

Germany does not have a big club in it's capitol either. Hertha are a team that will surely be bought and transformed from a Birmingham City type club (although they are in top flight and doing alright in recent seasons) to a PSG type club. Again this will be at the expense of the traditional clubs.

It's easier to sell football to the global markets where you have Paris v Berlin. The football community easily accepted PSG to the top table, and I'm sure they would welcome Hertha too, especially after a rebrand to really emphasise that they are from Berlin. Meanwhile, West Ham have quietly changed their badge, upsetting their fans by dropping some traditional bits and sticking London on it. How long before one of the London clubs really goes for it and adopts London into their name?

Going off on a mad tangent here, but I really don't like the direction that football is going in, and it seems that the likes of Everton are unwanted at the top table of European football. We really need to get the new stadium sorted, done properly, and for me, it has to have a bigger capacity than Anfield.

Bayern moved into the Olympic Stadium after the 1972 Olympics, and quickly went from the second club in Munich to the powerhouse of Germany. There's going to come a time soon where it really will be shit or bust for Everton. there will not be a 90 odd club professional league system in this country in 25 years, and we cannot be left behind.

Michael Lynch and John G. Spot on. My hatred for those bastards is beyond belief.

Lawrence, the more the merrier imo. Let these clubs participate in all the money spinning competitions around, they can play nonstop for 12 months like cricket, and be knackered and depleted in their national leagues.

Like the Kerry Packer Circus, it won't last.

I would support Liverpool over the team of El Caudillo every time. He wanted Real Madrid to represent the Castilian identity and suppressed the culture and identity of the Catalan and Basque regions. Over 500,000 surviving Spanish Republicans who had fought against Franco were sent to concentration camps in Spain, Germany, and Austria. So it's the red shite over these every time.

I'm getting on a bit now, and I'm really only interested in the next ten years. After that, well I might be eligible for a pensioner's ticket then, but I can't see me having the energy to get to many games – I've lived me life a bit too hard!

So all I care about is getting the new ground asap, getting in a manager and a system that values high tempo exciting football, with a couple of fucking huge defenders and midfielders to kick shit out of the opponents if they start taking the piss, and maybe getting some silverware – an FA Cup would do for me, even a League Cup for starters. Okay, I want to be Spurs but without the bottling it at the last hurdle. And without the obsession with finishing in the top four.

I have to admit, I have almost no interest in the Champions League. I never watch the games, and I hate everything about the tournament. I don't give a flying one if we qualify for it or not - except that it would allow us to keep our best players I suppose.

Anyway, my point is that the Champions League is like a fetish for the big clubs, it's really all they care about. Citteh will see their incredible season as a bit of a failure, even though they played some of the best football ever seen in this country. Wenger gets the bullet cos he's failed to get CLChampions League football for a season or maybe two. The Shite are rubbing their genitals in anticipation of a Champions League final. Fuck the lot of them, I really don't give a shit. I only watch Everton games these days anyway.

So, please Mr Moshiri, get us a new manager who's going to get us off our feet cheering. Get a DoF who's going to buy some exciting, fast, powerful players. It's not too much ask. I don't need Champions League football every season, I just need something to shout about.

I'm going to have a little lie down now.

Steve, I get where you're coming from but Franco died in 1976 that's like over 40 years ago. The vast majority of Real Madrid fans weren't either born or were just kids back then.

If we are going down that road then Roma (Mussolini), Dynamo Moscow (Beria), Dynamo Bucharest (Caucescu) Aston Villa (Prince William) and lfc (Adolf Hitler) all need to be tainted with the same brush.

The European Super League will come about when Sky and others decide the Premier League has lost its allure to the viewers. They will take their money away from the Premier League, and establish something like a 12 Club European League.

A weak Premier League will then, rather than kick the clubs out of the Premier League, permit them to maintain a representation, but in practice the English Euro League clubs will treat the Premier League like most currently treat the FA Cup, playing their second strings and kids.

The very real prospect of this happening, and sooner rather than later, was, I suspect, what was behind Moshiri's statement when he first took over, that time was short if Everton wanted to get back into the top echelons of the game. It's imminence is also what makes his investment so risky.

Failure to make such a resurgence would leave Everton, in all likelihood permanently, in the global wilderness, in a league deprived of its current income flows. Once again we will have missed the boat.

Fair point Colin, and for Villa you are forgetting David Cameron. Crimes against humanity indeed!

James Flynn @ 75 accurately encapsulates what needs to happen at Everton.

Things cannot and will not improve until we have a thoroughly professional (and ruthless) off-field management structure.

Kevin Tully @ 91 also alludes to the rumour that Lady Barrett-Baxendale of EiTC is being lined up to take over as CEO.

As someone who champions EiTC and respects the good lady's contribution to that wing of Everton FC, I believe if she is promoted to the CEO, we can forget about making any incremental progress, let alone a major leap forward or breakthrough, any time soon.

She is patently not suited to the role.

Too many of us fall into the trap of only measuring ourselves against the 'poo. Too many of us have claimed for too long 'there isn't a great deal of difference between the two teams.'

The latter completely ignores the harsh reality that for nigh on 50 years now, we have been their 'bitch'. Whereas once we were neck and neck - sometimes way in front on number of Derby games won - now, they have disappeared over the horizon.

All we have left is to throw petty insults at them. If the situation was inverted, I'd just laugh in their faces and point to our respective records and trophy cabinet.

You could not have a starker comparison between the current standing of the two clubs than the last 48 hours. A meaningless, dire, mid-table squabble for 9th or 10th place on Monday, against the excitement of a CL's semi-final shoot out on Tuesday.

A root and branch cleansing of the club and a complete reconstruction of the management system is THE highest priority this summer.

Unless and until that happens, there will be no radical change to how Everton performs and competes as a football club

Colin, it would be a fair point if that was where it ended. But it didn't. Franco named his successor, King Juan Carlos. He groomed him. He took over Franco's obsession with Real. He made them the Royal team (although they were already given the Royal title), and he bankrolled them using public money. They have kept on getting bankrolled by the Government, and the dodgy deal that I alluded to where they sold off a small part of their car park to the Government, and leased it back, and used the money to wipe off their 9 digit debt, well that happened in the last ten years.

Their despicable history goes on and on and on. It will never stop. And their association with Franco's regime, his descendants continues. They are prominent in that club, and new King also takes a keen interest.

On the question of clubs with political associations, I'll throw in Benfica of Portugal.

The fascist government of Salazar endured longer in Portugal than that of Franco in neighbouring Spain. Salazar was strongly associated with Benfica and it is said directly intervened to prevent them from selling Eusebio to interested clubs outside of Portugal (in the same way the military junta in Brazil blocked the icon Pele from leaving Santos for European clubs).

I have never been able to personally verify one story Sporting fans once shared with me (Benfica's city rivals) that they swore is true.

In the final game of one league season, Benfica needed a win to secure the title over Sporting.

The scores were level at 90 minutes, which would have given Sporting the title. This was in the 1960s when there were no subs, and no major delays or injuries occurred to play much injury time.

The story goes that the ref played an additional 18 minutes until Benfica finally scored the required goal to ensure the win they needed for the title, before the ref promptly blowing the final whistle.

THAT's the sort of influence I'd welcome at Everton!

Steve Carse, the way the European Super League comes is on two fronts:

1. They establish a North Atlantic Super League. This has been mooted a lot over the last 20 years. The argument is that the likes of Celtic, Rangers, Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord, Anderlecht, Copenhagen, AIK, Malmo and so on, are too big for their respective leagues, and so they should form a league for these smaller countries who are all relatively close to each other, ie short flights.

We're talking Scotland, Holland, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Finland. They can put forward a strong case as their respective countries are too small to ever host a league to compare with Premier League, Serie A, Bundesliga, La Liga or Ligue 1, purely due to population. However, combined they can create a product to rival those leagues, sell TV rights, and then compete financially.

The next step from this league is the European Super League, particularly if it works as they hope and rivals or surpasses the big 3 leagues. You can also imagine that Ligue 1 clubs, which is traditionally 5th in financial terms, will argue that they should join in, maybe some of the eastern European powerhouses will want to join in too, or maybe they will form their own Eastern European Super League. You could end up with 4 European Leagues, organised similar to American conferences in their sports and having a "mega bowl" or some crap to crown the champion of Europe.

2. The second way it comes in is already happening. The Champions league final switched to Saturday a few years back. How long before the Semi-Finals are Saturday and Sunday too? Then lets make the knockouts of a weekend, and before you know it, the domestic games are weekdays, and the Champions League is weekend. Whilst not being a European Super League as such, it takes over the domestic game completely relegating it to second fiddle. And then the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona, Liverpool, Juventus, AC Milan, PSG, Man Utd etc would argue that the Champions League needs them to be at their best, so their midweek domestic games should be of no significance: "don't make us qualify for the Champions League, just let us in every year, and we'll field a second string in the domestic game and be at our best for the Champions League".

Do you really not see either 1 or 2 happening in the next 10 years?

Jay (BRZ) - Here she is in action at the general meeting. I fully realise some people are extremely proud of the work carried out on behalf of the club. My take is, that any entity such as this should be completely separate from the footballing side of the club.

It seems to me, EitC has now morphed into the complete fabric of the club, by design, not accident, and lines are completely blurred. Take this video as a perfect example. More time was given to EitC than any other part of the club's business at the AGM.

The lady in question is glorified head-teacher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTKLJKtFp8g

Jay (#116),

Influence?

You do realise that Adolf had a soft spot for us following his visit to Goodison in 1912...

In fact, after he heard that we got off to a cracking start to our league campaign in 1939, he delayed his planned invasion of France (the Phoney War) until we had secured and won the League.

Loathe them as much as I do, you have to say they have certainly been terrific in this competition. I never ever watch them play, But I do watch the highlights after the game has finished, I never even try to check their score as the game is going on. Should they win the final it will show the massive gulf that exists between the 2 clubs, this will be their 6th we have hardly competed in this competition in our history.

Yes, they have never won the Premier League, but I think if they win this or not they will take a great deal of confidence from this run, and be up there next season challenging. Not to mention the extra revenue that they will get from getting this far in the competition. They have already bought Keita for next season, so his transfer and the Van Djik transfer has been paid for by the money they got for Courtinho. Dont seem to have missed him at all or Lallana who has been out for most of the season.

It''s like someone up there loves to punish us Evertonians, we end up with Mr Non-Football as manager, and they end up with an attack-minded coach, who has made them good to watch. When will the pain stop, I wish I knew, just not anytime soon I fear.

I thought she gave an impressive presentation Kevin.

EITC and EFC should be separate. Great work is done by EITC and that should be a plus for the club, not a negative.

I wouldn't be against her being on the board at all. It's good to have a female board member, someone from Liverpool, someone who is a genuine supporter and someone who has a good moral compass.

As for her being CEO, that won't happen under Moshiri, he needs someone with the right credentials, and by that I mean a business background. The CEO must be able to negotiate contracts, transfers, and do the day to day running of the club. I fail to see anything in her background that suggests she can do this, particularly at a time where the club needs strong leadership from someone experienced, in order to see the stadium completed.

Brian, Whenever Evertonian's have voiced discontent and any inkling of a protest, they have been labelled Kopites and told to fuck off across the park by our own supporters. We are getting exactly what we deserve whilst Kopites are one foot in another European final!

We punish ourselves by accepting dross and the likes of Baxter, Allardyce, Jeffers, Ferguson, Lee, Elstone, Kenwright because we think they "get" Everton, whatever that means!!! But hey, at least we are great in the community!

Brian (#120).
It would be their 8th Champions League Final.

I suppose it helps to have all the 50/50 decisions going your way in each and every round of the competition in order to have a terrific record in said competition. Meanwhile, Everton in their only venture in the Champions League was ended by a tight call against them.

Looks like we're in for a repeat of the 1970s all over again judging by the narrative on here, we suffer, they gloat, we moan, they march, we hope, they demand, we fail, they succeed.

Where's a Howard Kendall Mark1 when you need him? He respected but didn't fear them, he challenged his team to be the best we can't even challenge the rest and we won't as long as we choose the likes of Moyes, Martinez and Allardyce to manage us.

Just remember that they were below us in the table when they took the action to sack Rodgers and hire Klopp in October, after they were disppointed by drawing with us. Meanwhile, we had people on these forums celebrating that draw as if it was a cup victory.

I remember a certain Martin Mason who would lecture me and others to stop complaining and that we had surpassed them, that they were on the decline and we had superior squad. That was only a couple of years ago, 2015. I hate them but I can't help but respect them. They demand success from top to bottom.

Jay #116
oooops.. scrub my post..My bad.
must check my dates before posting.

Steve Ferns (#117),

A real and believable scenario in regards to the super leagues. I don't believe it will happen as it would be asking each home nation to sign their own death warrant.

To imagine, for example, the SFA to agree to the Sectarian Twins departing for pastures new. I just can't see it. Same goes for many other countries. You don't let your biggest assets go.

As for this country, we have the FA, who just do not do change. It is still dominated by white, middle-aged, upper-middle-class men.
Radical thinking for them is having a male serving the tea.

Joe Stalin
Harold Shipman
Idi Amin
Count Dracula
Genghis Khan
Pol Pot
Adolf Hitler
Donald Trump
Margaret Thatcher
Bonny & Clyde

4-4-2

If they played Liverpool they would have my full support.

Steve (#117) – I recall this speculation regarding a European Super League decades back as a kid & still can't see it happening. All those clubs that are currently a big fish in a small to middling pond would be running the risk of becoming a relatively small fish in a bigger pond & none of them will want to take the risk. Although your second scenario does sound a tad more plausible than most I've heard over the years.

Stephen (#119) Adolf was clearly a red, not a blue. Just think of the colour of those flags bearing the swastika. I also recall reading somewhere that Anfield got off relatively lightly compared to Goodison Park as regards bomb damage during the Blitz!

Well, we should take solace from the success of our neighbours as it was not so long ago that Klopp was being pilloried by many of the RS. There is hope that we too can turn things round with the right manager and a few more key players.

Salah, Firminio and Mane are good examples of players who were bought for tidy sums, but not out of our reach, and all of them are proving that they are worth far more.

Carefull scouting and buying allied to progressive coaching, and we too could be making progress instead of eating gruel every week and being grateful for our mere existence.

Plenty of bite in defence and that midfield certainly has 'attitude' John G, but I'm not convinced by Bonny and Clyde up front. They're rubbish at shoot-outs.

Steve Ferns,

There's a book out there called How Soccer Explains the World that I'd highly suggest you read, if you haven't.

They devote an entire chapter to Real Madrid and it's horrific history. They truly have a dark past.

It's a great read – and you summarized the author's view on Real Madrid perfectly.

Disappointed there's no room for Fred and Rose West in that team, John G.

I second Jamie's recommendation of that book.

Brazilian Jay,

As usual, straight to the point on team selection. Not a good front two, Plus Genghis Khan was never a left back, Adolf in the middle is also a poor choice, much better on the right wing.

Possibly move Pol Pot to a more destructive midfield position.

John G#128 I'm not sure Dracula should be in defence as he may struggle to deal effectively with crosses.

If there is one thing Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, Barca, etc have shown us, it's that the day of the big striker is gone. You don't need some slow lanky giant up front to score goals.

Tosun, Clavert-Lewin, Carroll, Crouch, Rondon, even to an extent Lukaku, will never be able to out-jump, out-run or dribble past some equally lanky centre-backs to score enough goals to win trophies. They are bench warmers who should be chucked on as a last resort because, while they are on the park, the urge to hit it long is almost irresistible for the rest of the team.

These are the days of the smaller, quicker, mobile, skilful front men. Interchangeable, always on the move, quick on the break, don't give the defenders a rest attackers. You need players with lower centres of gravity who can out turn lumbering centre-backs who are there to defend against big strikers and the opposition's tall players at set pieces.

These are the type of forwards we should be looking for in the summer. No more Tosuns.

Michael 134,

They are on the subs bench.

Jay Brazil 😁😁

Dennis 😁😁

Stephen (#119), you know that is a huge fib, right? You do us footy histiorans a great disservice. I have a totally legit photo of Adolf on the kop (c 1913) swinging his rattle!

Steve (#121), in a very recent post one of us TW'ers stated he used to work at Goodison and was once required to attend an office there because her ladyship was to interview someone for some sort of mentoring role at the club. Apparently, the applicant had been described as "vocal" (I paraphrase) and our man believed his role was to prevent any potential trouble.

Anyway, arriving at the office, he was flabbergasted to see the applicant was Neville Southall! Her ladyship allegedly said she'd never heard of him, just that he was "some ex-player".

So, she hardly qualifies as a supporter as far as I'm concerned and just why we have to have someone who runs a charity in the boardroom has always mystified me despite the great work done by EitC.

Steve Ferns: I find this interesting but I would genuinely like to see some credible backing for this whopping maybe rant-driven generalization. The point was already made and you are simply trotting out well-know history but this, I would like to see you expand upon as I have never read this before:

'The real reason the European Cup was set up was so Real could show the domination of the fascist ideals'.

John G, you can't have girls in your team, that's just silly. Get Maggie and Bonny out and put in General Franco and Mussolini. That would be a scary team!

Colin,

Maggie wasn't a girl. I would have a decent wager she had a Blackpool Rock tucked into her smart sensible dress. Why else do you think Dennis had a permanent smile.

See your point re Bonny though.

There's absolutely no doubt that we need a complete clear-out from the top, but let's wait and see if RS can win the thing before we crown them Champions.

I find it staggering that people will put up Henry of the Fenway group up as some sort of serial winner.... of what ?

The only thing Henry has brought is a very expensive trial-and-error programme, with the emphasis thus far being on the latter. Until they land a title, he can only ever be considered a pale imitation of his Chelsea counterpart or the Champions at the Etihad.

Money always helps but having the financial clout to take over a ready-made worldwide brand does not a winner make.

Those fuckers already think they are all time champions of the universe. (They thought that long before Henry arrived.) Let's not start bestowing titles upon them before they have even won them. In the time the Fenway group and "serial winner" Henry have been in charge at Mordor, they have won the same trophy as Birmingham and Swansea, a slightly less prestigious one than Wigan and their title challenge is usually over by Chrimbo. Long may it continue.

Now, about Everton...

Good point John, she did have a manly gait about her. I'll let you leave Maggie in if I can have Hannibal Lecter on the bench.

John G, how about replacing Bonnie & Clyde with Mussolini & Pinochet?

I'm watching tonight's Champions League semi-final on German TV. The commentators talk a bit less, makes me nostalgic for those days when UK TV commentators remembered they're no longer working in radio and we can see the pictures.

John G. No place for Hindley and Brady? Or Goebbels, a tricky little winger? How about Josef Mengele? Eichmann? You're as bad as Lardyce!

Don't play Thatcher in defence – she plays people onside all the time.

Every time I saw her, you could hear the cry "Maggie, Maggie, Maggie... out, out, out!"

Peter, you could replace her with Cecil Parkinson. Remember the chant?

Maggie, Maggie, Maggie. Out Out Out!
Cecil, Cecil, Cecil. In Out In Out!

Paul

Or perhaps put Cyril Smith in.

A team with him in would hand out a few spankings.

There's always Jack the Ripper, or Peter Sutcliffe, the Yorkshire Ripper. Both could disappear and hide in a game for 85 minutes then suddenly turn up and slot one.

Steve (#109),

Are you forgetting the crimes the British empire inflicted on the world in the name of the king/queen and country. I'd cheer on old nick against the red shite horrible fuckin bastards

Cyril would certainly be hard to get past or run around, Peter. Might get done for pace, though.

Klopp's tactical Achilles heel of not being able to defend a lead in the last quarter, may come back to haunt them. Paisley's team would have never have been in this situation.

A "Super-League" is a fun topic to kick around.

But a non-starter in reality. Never going to happen.

All these already-sitting-pretty clubs are going to leap off their current financial gravy-trains (The Champions League set-up a big part of that) because of... what exactly?

Never happening.

Frank (#138) – you mean like Young & Vernon?

Sorry, Frank, I couldn't resist it. 😉

Just so I've got this straight, the club whose fans KILLED 39 Juventus fans and got English clubs banned from Europe, who on their next appearance in European Cup/Champs league final had another fan jailed for attempted murder, robbed their fellow fans of tickets and forced entry to the ground at their next final, attacked the Man City coach a couple weeks ago etc etc etc, are now after protected species status for these lovely fans in Rome next week. All because 15-20 Italians with their belts off took it to the Kop pre game, whilst the YNWA brigade filmed on their phones watching a fellow fan walk very alone. Guess cults genuinely don't do irony or hypocrisy. When you didn't think could loathe them more...

The above is doing the rounds on Twitter.

I agree with all of it while, at the same time, wishing the innocent lad in intensive care who the bullies beat up, the speediest of recoveries.

John, that post is spot on. They are the most vile, loathsome fans in the world.