Champions League Final

Don't really care what we do till Monday, it's going to be bad enough with all those twats filling the pubs and social media with shite.

But on a side note. Walking to School this morning with my 4-year-old one of those cars drove past with flags all over it. My little one shouted at the top of her lungs "BOOOOO!!! – Stinky Reds!!!" Guess what the rat done, no smile, he gave her the wanker sign.

I don't just hope they get beat, I hope they get battered.

Here's an idea... Emigrate!!!

I'm afraid there's no escape. Fella round the corner has got a flag nearly covering his house. I was walking past earlier (well, skulking) when he spotted me. Now bear in mind this mug has hardly uttered a word to me in all the years I've lived there, when he started going on about the game...

Well, I cut him short and said, "What time you going?"
He looked at me as if I'd suddenly sprouted another head and said, "Going where?"
I said, "Kiev."
He said, "I'm not."
I said, "Thought not... Why have you got that flag draping your drum then? ... Gotta dash!"

Like I said, no escape. Just gonna try and switch off. Hard, I know... but I've already resigned myself to the next couple of weeks being hell. No-one said it was going to be easy...

Can I just ask you all to say this little prayer:

Please God, let Real Madrid win the cup, three nil. Two highly disputed penalties given, a Ronaldo hatrick, Sala sent off for diving, and Klopp sent off for complaining about Sala being sent off!

Thank you.😇😇😇

Every man and his dog thinks (knows) they will win it. But, just ask yourself:

Can you really picture a player of Henderson's limited quality lifting the Champions League trophy?

Additionally, if Salah has an off day, they haven't a chance.

They think it's in the bag

I've got a spade at the ready and intend to bury myself for the summer and beyond should that shower get a result tomorrow.

Ah!... So what game's this then, Ted?

I emigrated to deepest, darkest Vancouver Island... none of the gobshites round here; I've just got to stay away from the sports channels.

Town's full of Norwegian Muslims (praise be to the prophet); lots of chants of M'os Allah! emanating from the Square of Concert... Weird!

I need a safe haven if these win. They are in league with the devil. I despise them. I'm talking about the Red Shite.

However, Real Madrid are the only team I could see beating them as they have a bigger pact with the devil – see Franco. It's 50/50.

Just remember, Blues, these Red Shite are called the most knowledgeable, intelligent and passionate fans In the world... I counter that argument by saying I work with a fair share of them (and used to be married into a family of them) and they aren't knowledgeable or intelligent. Passionate maybe, but so are lots of football fans the world over.

Whenever I go outside of Liverpool, I always tell those in awe of the kop that they are the same as them, just people; a lot of people together doesn't make them intelligent or knowledgeable, even if some university students have made big flags with profound messages, others just name their pub. We are all the same. So remember, they are no better or worse – just different

Anyhow... come on, Real – fuck these!

And to add, for those familiar with the route, I work in the City Centre but travel down the M62 from Tarbock Island down past The Rocket and along Edge Lane through Wavertree and Toxteth and on to the City Centre. About 10 miles. And yes, flags are out... but not as many as you would think for the world's greatest team with the greatest fans.

In my office are 20 people. 4 are Mancs; 3 are hardcore Blue and 2 are hardcore Reds; 11 want the shite to win and 6 will go for the bus tour if they do. Even though consensus is they aren't really football fans but have heard of Salah etc, and it's exciting and boyfriends like it.

We are lagging behind. We need success so that hangers-on give us money.

I can only offer one crumb of comfort if they nick it on penalties: the World Cup kicks off soon; otherwise, we would have it all Summer, so thank god for the World Cup.

If Real Madrid do win, it has to be Ronaldo netting the winner for the icing on the cake.

If Real Madrid win, you can bet those flags around town will be down quicker than a hookers pair of drawers.

Just for once, let it be a Blue Day for us suffering Evertonians, we at least deserve that after the season we have had.

And (because you can tell I'm on a crusade now), Klipperty has said yesterday that the Shite are in the final because “they are Liverpool”. Well fuck-off, new teeth, you're there because you got an easier passage.

Taking nothing away from your limited team, you did what you needed to do, so kudos. But you are far from the best team in Europe; just jammy bastards.

And for Evertonians who can't remember, or who didn't realise, the Shites first win in this competition included a ‘bye' (ask your dad) in the first round, and no competition subsequently.

Yes, I'm bitter... doesn't make me wrong that they are sick as a group; okay in individual packets.

https://www.facebook.com/SPORTbible/videos/1735232473228047/

Can't even spell their own players' names.

The most unbearable, self-righteous, victim mentality, deluded, condescending, flag waving, whinging, deplorable football supporters there have ever and will ever be.

They already think they have won it and the smug bastards in work who would need a sat nav to find the fucking ground are planning a winners party. One even had the temerity to ask me over to his house to watch the game with his kopite mates.

When I told him I couldn't come as I was removing my own spleen with a rusty spoon that night he just didn't get it!

C'mon, Real – my hopes and prayers are with you.

I might go and put a bet on them to win the cup on the basis that I never win a bet.

I cannot stand Ronaldo but, if it means him surpassing the great Messi by scoring the winner and so picking up another Balon d'Or, then so be it.

As pointed out above, both of these clubs entered some sort of Faustian pact a long time ago. This will come down to whichever one of them paid greatest attention to the small print.

There's a very real tension amongst the Blues in the city. The Gobshites are starting to go into overdrive with their banners and scarves hanging from their windows and the people selling red car flags are now running out of stock. We so need this crew to get beat tonight.

My mind wanders back to when the two-faced fuckers were wishing us well before THAT game against Wimbledon whilst underhandedly planning their "going down" parties...

I hate them for who they are, for what they have been, and for everything they represent.

I am keeping a low profile at the moment; I'm hoping my Gobshite neighbours are simply setting themselves up for the most painful of disappointments. if the Spaniards turn them over I have enough booze in the house to have a "You won fuck all again" party that'll go on for days.

But like the Murphys... I'm not bitter.

Peter @15

Lump on, lad!

100% guaranteed they win it. Look back at the luck they have had this season: 6 (SIX) goals conceded in a semi-final — and still they go through?

I don't like to be mocked in my own city, I am angry that I am. Years ago, banter was good natured and on occasions like these you would find many an Evertonian hoping the other lot won because of pride in Liverpool the city.

But somewhere along the way, it's changed; few would wish good fortune anymore, the little smile on their defeat is celebrated as a massive win for us now. Sort of, "If we can't have it then I'll be dammed if they can."

Bitter blues? No, just angry ones, for both teams have had the opportunity, both teams the money. One has been run like a global business the other like a corner shop off County road.

You see, it hurts. I can take the taunts and laugh, but I cannot take those who have laughed at us for years, stripped our club of joy and hope, left us with nothing and believe we should be happy being led by a manager who has never won anything, by a board full of self-interest and a Chairman who berates us... likewise the compliment is returned.

I hope they win, for the sake of the city and because it's the way I was brought up, but goodness I will chuckle and smile if they don't. I will commiserate with their injustices and give them stick at the same time.

But quietly I push the jealousy away and remind myself how we got to be where we are today and of those who left us to eat the craw whilst lining their own pockets.

At the moment we cannot compete on the pitch, commercially or In the quality of business.

But we will.

This game has the most at stake of our entire season... And we're not even taking part in it! A sad indictment of all things Everton at the moment.

Come on Madrid!

Christine

I'm afraid all that "let's win it for the city" shite died along time ago. I'm surprised you muse about why things changed - the turning point was Heysel – it's like it never happened in their psyche, no memorials, no memory,no fucking mention of it either by RS supporters or the media!

Perhaps you don't recall the Twats doing a conga at Villa Park when we losing to Wimbledon in 94?

No English team suffered more than us because of Heysel it cost us a manager, a team and a shot at the European Cup in 86 and 88. Because we are Evertonians we bore this injustice silently. After 89 it became impossible to talk about Heysel. We would have been in Europe every year during that period and we have never really recovered from that.

I have lots of mates who are Reds but even with the best of them there is a strange amnesia that afflicts them if you dare to broach the subject of Heysel and its impact on both clubs. Let's not forget who were the first club back in European competition – amazingly

The RS actually have a good team and manager at this point in time and I fucking hate those fascists Real Madrid however tonight I hope Ronaldo and co win it in the luckiest manner possible.

I have heard RS fans taunt us about being envious, however, I would rather remove my left kidney with a dull spoon than be a follower of those mawkish, deluded, history deniers from across the park.

Christine, totally with you. Have the same feelings. I don't come from Liverpool but have family that do, mother born there. Our family are blues. Apparently, we did have some reds in the family. Must have been distant cousins, living in Yorkshire!

I console myself by thinking I will get behind the city of Liverpool and England as a whole, more than the team itself.

But I will get far more pleasure out of it if they lose.

Good luck to all the Evertonians in the world. Next week will either be the latest worst week or the best and funniest.

Meanwhile, in the other big game. Come on Villa!

Let us pray the non-scouse lowlife bastards come unstuck.

Sadly, my (idiot) son is trying to get to Kiev but is currently stuck in Cracow so I'm in a bit of a dilemma. Should I pretend to wish his team well or should I be open about my support for Madrid?

I think I'll opt for the latter... Vamos Madrid!!

Not 100% with Christine as I don't want them to win but it won't bother me if they do. Gone past caring about what they do.

Come on, Farhad, pull your finger out and give us back our pride.

Win it for the city?

Christine, I have a lot of respect for you and your posts but I'm not having that one.

I wish nothing but bad for that club. It's irrational how much I despise them, but there you go.

I have never openly disliked them but I do and I have never openly been bitter towards them but I am.

Having a lot of friends and very close family who are reds is tricky conversation sometimes. The big problem when talking to them is that we are so utterly crap that giving shit to them makes no sense.

If we were even a half decent team who were involved in some medium success I would feel comfortable having a go at them but that's not the case.

Talking about Heysel is a no go with full respect to the Juventus supporters.

The 89 cup final should never in a million years have been played and I know for sure I was not ready celebrate and I was there. There was a terrible feeling of emptiness that day.

I did have a horrible feeling that day though that had we won, the RS would have done their utmost to have that result removed from history.

Most of the blame for our fall from grace should be aimed at our board of directors for the neglect towards the running of the club. If they had been more professional over the past 20-odd years we may have had some success.

Gareth Bale winner please.

I just want the RS to have 95% possession, 50 shots on target and hit the woodwork 30 times. The Ronaldo scores a 95th minute last kick of the game penalty that never was.

I'm going to Church right now and light half a dozen candles and pray a lot. Definitely won't be able to go to confession again this year!

Peter,

I largely agreed with you about 1989 – but air-brushing Heysel from the collective memory is as disrespectful as the cover-up that followed the horror at Hillsborough.

Christine (19) nice post, absolutely great last line, I believe that with my heart and soul.

I remember sitting in The Goblin, a pub off Islington in the late seventies, being sneered at by a Red, a decent fella, telling me "You'll never win anything again, you're finished as a top club." I told him "We'll be back, don't worry about that, football runs in cycles" He laughed, but a few years later he wasn't laughing.

The other night in Ned Kelly's, another Liverpool fan sneered at me in the same way, telling me "You'll never win a European Cup or if you do you'll never see it."

I replied, "You could be right about that, that I'll never see it but my kids and grandkids will and they won't see it on the fuckin' television like you — they'll be there roaring them on." Christine, as I said, love that last line of yours. But we will, I most probably won't) see it but it will most definitely happen.

Ed, agree with you to a great extent, and we are not bitter blues, more angry birds... Or just plain angry.

You see, Evertonians have class... Liverpudlians don't. Where we would jeer, they would throw bricks, smash windows of coaches and bottle... As a set of supporters, I tend to believe we are a few steps up the ladder from the scum..

It's a class thing in Liverpool... we have it, they don't.

Sadly, we suffer because the decisions made by our directors have left us light-years behind clubs like Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal and even Spurs now.

That's why I am an Angry Bird...

Dave, yes we will.

I firmly believe that although Kenwright and Co have set this club back decades, once shed of them we will soar again. We have slid into the mire of mid-table mediocrity, not even best of the rest now..

The damage is done. But the club will recover its kudos and standing in the years to come. Of that I am in no doubt.

I predict too that within my lifetime the other lot will be sold, be relegated to the Championship once more and still be at Anfield.

We can hope can't we?

They are the most vile, obnoxious bunch of bastards on earth. I cheered and LMFAO when I heard three of their flights to Kiev had been cancelled.

I went to Kiev when we played dynamo Kiev 3 years ago. A lovely city. Pity it is about to be invaded by thousands of thieving, drunken shithouses. Considering they only got about 15k tickets, those without tickets will stop at nothing to get into the stadium. There will be no chance of storming the gates as you need to pass through two turnstiles and the police there certainly won't take any prisoners.

Bitter, too fucking right. My plan for today is a few cans, Southern Comforts, vodkas (not all in the same glass though) and watch the Championship Playoff Final. Once that's finished, I'll probably fall asleep.

Come on, Madrid!! Do it for the proper Scouse club.

I was out having a few beers last night at my local club and a guy I know said "I am fed up listening to all the bitter Blues on the radio wanting Real Madrid to win."

I said "When Man Utd got to the Champions League final, did you want them to win?"

"Obviously not" he said.

"Then why are you surprised we don't want you to win?"

I just wonder what press we would have got if we had been involved in some of the things they have done. Heysel, 39 dead they would have you believe that it should never have been staged there nothing to do with their fans charging the Juventus fans that caused the deaths.

The fans who attacked Alan Smith being ferried from the ground in an ambulance.

Only recently throwing bottles and cans at the City coach. City fans showed far more class in not responding 2 weeks later.

Yet we are castigated by all and sundry in the media for wanting the obnoxious Allardyce out of our club.

Mind, the press is full of Redshite supporters, whether it be Oliver Holt, Henry Winter or Andy Dunn and many more besides.

Heysel is just too tragic to touch on. I had two brothers at the game and one was a Blue who reckons the Italians were kicking off everywhere that morning.

All the same, one life is not worth a football game, never mind that many so it gets too ugly to call them murderers and all that stuff.

Uefa should have banned them for 10 years and let us march on but unfortunately the Tories were looking for a headline and this was it.

Our supporters were brilliant in Rotterdam but even that was nearly undone by some Celtic supporters.

It's hard to think that the team in Rotterdam only 1 week before Heysel was about to be torn apart due to events not of our doing.

Peter Clarke,

Because Heysel is contentious doesn't mean it can't be discussed. If you apply that logic then the events of Hillsborough should have never been discussed either? Had that tragedy not been discussed then justice for 96 fans and families would never have come to pass.

"I'm not saying all Liverpool fans were culpable for Heysel that would be grossly unfair but 39 Italians died and I see little evidence of that tragedy being marked by the City of Liverpool" – I think that is just plain wrong.

Peter, I genuinely don't mean to be disrespectful to you or members of your family as I too had good friends at that match. So if I have caused any offence, I apologise.

I was in Rotterdam too and I take your point about potential trouble but the fact is there wasn't trouble, was there? – despite the presence of Celtic fans and Evertonians were praised for their behaviour.

They, and they alone, got us banned and still cause havoc wherever they go.

C'mon, Madrid – save our summer!

I can't see Marco Silva turning things round for us. We need a manager who has seen it all.

I know Rafael Benitez said we are a "small club" – perhaps we have become one – but could he turn it round for us?

Not much happening today except that mouth-watering game between Villa and Fulham.

Always enjoy these play-off games.

If there is a footballing god up there, please have Real Madrid win. I've had nearly decade and half of their "Five times FIVE times shite. Seeing mugs on my Facebook stream changing their profile pics to them holding up six fingers is just too much already.

I live down south, the amount of plastic red shite supporters is embarrassing. The media are willing them to win, they'll have you believe the whole country is backing them.

Even listening to TalkShite briefly yesterday, I swear they were only putting on fans who wanted them to win. When a cockney Man Utd fan even came on, saying he hoped they win it, it will be great for English football... do one. I switched off.

I have been banned from the BBC Have Your Say forums for mentioning Heysel today. Nothing rude or offensive about it, I just pointed out some facts in response to some of the redshite on there.

One of them said that no-one should forget that Liverpool were the club most disproportionality impacted by the ban on English clubs.

Another said that no other English club will ever have their history in the competition.

All I did was respond to these claims with some facts.

A post in which I pointed out that the most significant part of their history in the competition was actually Heysel but it has been airbrushed from their history, their flags and their songs about Europe was deemed to be offensive.

No offence taken, Ed.

I do not feel that they have paid anywhere near enough remorse as a club towards Juventus.

Liverpool Football Club did some memorial tributes to those fans but it is not my club so don't know if that was ongoing to this day or not.

You mentioned The City of Liverpool which strangely enough did get dragged into it even though Liverpool supporters are only approx 50% scousers so what happened to all the other towns and cities where the support came from? Did they all get dragged into it?

I didn't take it lightly as a 21 year old back then and had a few scraps about football with our red neighbours. I have also discussed the events of that day respectfully with mates and family and they know they should have been the only club punished.

Even the day of the Hillsborough tragedy, I was in a queue at Villa Park getting hammered by the police with other blues because they wanted us to stay crushed up against the wall and not step off the kerb.

There was only two turnstiles open with 10 minutes to kick off and thousands trying to get in. It was hard not to lash out that day as we were constantly being treated like animals by police.

Back to Rotterdam. You are correct that the day went to perfection for ourselves and the police but given that the big main gates were just opened up for us to walk in, it could easily have gone wrong if more supporters had been present.

I just get the feeling that bringing up Heysel to any Red is just going to make us look bitter in trying to put the guilt on them. They are blemeless after all judging by past events remember!

Even with the ban in place, why did it all have to fall apart the way it did at Everton? We have a chequered history with success in that, after each successful period, it quickly falls apart. I blame the board for letting this happen.

Thanks, Peter,

I mostly agree with your sentiments and like you I was at Villa Park and understand what you are saying.

I understand what t you are saying about today also and mentioning Heysel; however we aren't allowed to mention it any day! Look what happened to poor old Chris Leyland. They say history is written by the victors – in this case that's very true.

We lost our manager because of the lure of European football – remember HK was going to Barca initially and ended up at Bilbao. I think the board were helpless in that respect and remember we did win the league in 87 and narrowly missed out in 86.

I think the City should do something with the City of Turin to mark those fans who died. The City of Liverpool came together (rightly) to support the justice for the 96 campaign but I think it's remiss for people to ‘turn away' because Heysell is distasteful or it's painful to consider.

Anyway, have a great day, Peter, I hope your brothers are miserable tonight and you are joyous!

Just hope they lose. Don't care how just lose.

Maybe because I am 12 thousand miles away and don't have to face the everyday in your face ill humour, that I have softened.
One of the brothers is a blue and was with the other two blue brothers ( myself included )at Rotterdam. He then went onto Heysel with the red brother and with a Juventus scarf proudly wrapped around his neck.
His story of the days was generally of the Juve supporters being horrible but a great day until the tragedy.
He was also at Hillsborough in the semi in 77 and reckons he nearly died in the crush amongst blues that day.

If only these players of today knew what you went through as a supporter !!

All the best.

RS rely so heavily on the front three so they use the breakaway tactics to utilize the speed and more often then not it paralizes teams early on.

No manager it seems has so far learnt that Salah is very left footed and always comes in on it from the right scoring many goals that way.

Anything can happen in cup-ties and as really this is just another one but somehow I can't envisage both Madrid teams winning both Euro cups.

I used to take my brother to the match with me up until he was about 11 or 12. Whenever the murderers song was sung I never used to join in and I told my brother not to either.
'It's disrespectful" I used to tell him.

Then one afternoon in about the April of 2005, me and my other half were sat in a bar on Allerton Road within spitting distance of a couple of loveable reds who apparently hadn't long returned from their away leg in Turin. They regailed the rest of their party with a wonderful tale how whilst away on european shores, they'd sang a song of their own entitled
'39 Italians, sitting on the wall.'

For those of you that haven't heard the song, it's a wonderfully composed piece, right up there with the lovely Seamus Coleman/broken leg number they composed last year.

What's good for the goose as they say.

Saracens v Exeter Rugby Premiership final today, Aston Villa v Fulham also on. Then watch my ingrowing toenail growing back.

Younger RS brother has gone to Liverpool to watch the game and savour the (Scandinavian) atmosphere. I sincerely hope he's gutted tonight.

Pete Clarke - yes, I was on The Leppings Lane that night, and it was pretty unpleasant.

Coincidentally, I was at the airport at 4am this morning dropping off somebody who was flying to Paris. I really felt in hostile territory!

Just think: one day, this won't be us...

Hi Pete [45] and Brian [49],

I think you mean the League Cup Final, 1st replay. I was in the main stand that night. I also attended the 2nd replay at Old Trafford, Villa winning 3-2.

I had the fortune / misfortune to witness the 'Clive Thomas Show' in the FA Cup semi-final and the subsequent replay against Liverpool, both games played at Maine Road... the pain lingers still.

Jamie (#47). I can relate to your story something similar.

The night after the Heysel final, me and a few blues were in the halfway house, not far from the Childwall Fiveways. We knew some (ex-)mates who had gone to Brussels and had arranged to meet in the Halfway the night after.

When they finally turned up, they were actually rejoicing in the fact that 39 Italians had been killed. Saying things like 39 - 0.

They are indeed scum.

Not long after the Heysel disaster, myself and big brother went on a 5-month backpacking trip through Europe ending up on a Kibbutz in Israel.

Early into the journey, we were in an Italian pizza place and ordered some food. Next thing, we were surrounded by all of the staff calling us English pigs and to get out. I quickly stood up and told them we were Irish so they backed off.

It was a close call given that we were both actually from Liverpool but this became a theme when people asked where we were from because it was pretty shameful to admit to being from Liverpool after Heysel.

I sometimes struggle to understand how that club can be so popular with so many given their involvement in tragedies but I do know a pizza place where they would not be welcome.

If they win today, expect a tsunami of selfies on social media holding up 6 fingers... on one hand!!!

Haha like it Jay.

Please let Real Madrid win.

I am fully rehearsed to go to work in Liverpool on Tuesday and greet my colleagues with "Buenos Dias!"

Well, I've lumped on them with the bookies tonight. Lots of goals but unfortunately most of them in favour of Mordor.

If result's come through as expected (I'm not watching, I'm going out for a meal) I could stand to make up to a grand. Might make the result a bit easier to swallow .who am I kidding? Fuck the money. COME ON REAL.

Whatever happens, I hope Aston Villa lose today. I can't stand them, their fans and, most of all, Steve Bruce. Surely the ugliest, and biggest whinger, manager in football.

Sit back and watch the hottest young player around. Two seasons ago we could've bought Ryan Sessegnon for buttons. I shouted out his name on here but was ignored. Eat yer heart out BPB.

Hope Kenwrights proud of himself he has gradually sunk us so low, so that he could keep hold of his train set. it wasn't so long ago they were heading for administration or something like that. I'm really gutted watching them parading around town and getting all the media attention. Why can't it be us.. yeah thanks Bill. As long as the EITC and the Marketing Director are getting awards you'll be happy. I would like to see the club win a football trophy That's the main reason for EFC. Its going to be a long weekend if they win. What have we done to deserve all the shit for years.

Wow, 60 comments already... methinks you'll be wanting the Live Forum up and running!!!

It's on now... but for something much more relevant to us (unfortunately) — the Championship Playoff Final.

Aston Villa vs Fulham @ Wembley.

Get on now!

Cheers Michael. I've got loads of bile and bitterness to get out of my system. C'mon Real Fulham!

I always quote this version when confronted about it by them...

Our Day of Shame
A Liverpool fan recalls how events spiralled out of control. By Tony Evans at the Sunday Times.

NEVER forgive, never forget. Never understand. On Merseyside, the feelings about the Heysel disaster are as deep as they are confused. The chant above was sung at the derby match last month by Everton fans, many of whom feel that in some way they are the real victims of that dreadful day because their title-winning team could not play in the European Cup the next season. It taunted Liverpool supporters, some of whom still feel that they had nothing to do with the deaths of 39 people on that May night nearly 20 years ago.

“A wall collapsed, that was all.”

I have said it and heard it countless times. Except it is a lie.

There was a moment that day that, more than anything that would happen over the ensuing 24 hours, has haunted me. Our train had just arrived at Jette station and a long column of Liverpool supporters set off downhill towards the centre of Brussels. I lingered and watched them, chequered flags flying, and thought it looked like a medieval army on the move. Above the narrow street, the locals hung out of open windows and watched, half-grinning but nervous. As I set off for the Grand Place, I thought: “We can do what we like today. No one can stop us.”

IT WAS warm and sunny, but there was a dark side to the general mood. It did not need the chequered flags, bought in Rome, to remind anyone about the events in the Italian capital a year before. Then, playing AS Roma in the European Cup final in their own stadium, Liverpool had won the cup but it was not a day remembered with affection. Before the match, scooter gangs has stalked the travelling fans. After the game, Rome erupted in rage, and the bloody events around the Olympic Stadium left everyone who was there — and those who had only heard talk of what happened — determined not to suffer again at the hands of Italian ultras.

“The Italians won't do that to us again” was a refrain repeated in the weeks since the semi-final. It was not a matter of revenge. It was a wariness, a fear that built itself up to an enormous rage that would spill out at the slightest perceived provocation.

The anger was palpable, and not just toward Italians. The British media, we felt, had barely reported one of the worst outbreaks of violence in the game's history. Had it happened to supporters from any other city, there would have been outrage. But Liverpool was out of step with the mood of the country, marginalised and despised. Well, we could fight our own battles.

Turning into a narrow street in the centre of town, my brother and I saw about six Juventus fans in their twenties, lounging outside a café, trying to look cool and hard at the same time. When one looked me straight in the eye, I snarled: “Go on gobshite, say something.” They did not take up the offer. But the tone was set. And the drinking had not even started.

WE WERE used to confrontation, though not necessarily at football matches. The first half of the 1980s was perhaps the city's lowest point, philosophically and economically. Scousers were labelled as thieves in the press, the city's working class moved ever leftwards as Margaret Thatcher was fêted and the culture gap between Liverpool and the rest of England was stretched to breaking point.

Many of Liverpool's travelling fans were politicised, even if only in a loose way. Quite a few of us had battled with police outside at Eddie Shah's printing plant in Warrington and gravitated towards Militant Tendency. On the ordinary trains the tales were as likely to be about picket lines and Troops Out marches as incidents at football grounds. This was not hooligan culture as popularly imagined.

Where other clubs' supporters gave themselves butch names and built a myth of organisation and generals, Liverpool and Everton fans mocked the hooligan ethos relentlessly. Read copies of The End, the seminal fanzine of the period, and the picture is clear. Service Crews, Headhunters and their ilk were laughable. The Inter City Firm drew guffaws and was seen not as a force to be admired and feared but as something from a Thatcherite Ealing Comedy. None of those people were present in Brussels, no matter what was said at the time. Hooligans from the far right would not have been welcome.

Of course, this did not mean there was no trouble at our games, just that it evolved in a different manner. When groups of young, aggressive, predominantly working-class men are put in confrontational situations, then there will be confrontation. There was.

THE GRAND PLACE was less tense than might have been expected. Liverpool fans were here in numbers and small groups who had travelled independently met up, felt safe and relaxed into an afternoon of drinking. Clustered around the bars, we sang, bare-chested in the sun. It was almost idyllic. Then the atmosphere started to turn as the drink kicked in.

The common belief was that Belgian beer was weaker than the booze at home. In the heat, young men used to drinking a gallon of weak mild were quaffing strong lagers as if they were lemonade. Small incidents started to mushroom and suddenly the mood changed and the bars began to shut down.By now, there were four of us in our little group. We were reluctant to leave the square because other friends may still be heading for the rendezvous. I went to find some beer, taking a red and white cap to give some protection from the sun. Walking down a narrow street, I saw a group of boys laughing almost hysterically. Seeing my quizzical look, they pointed at a shop. It was a jewellers with no protective grating over the window. All you could do was laugh.

Farther on, I saw a group of Juventus supporters, and one was wearing a black and white sun hat. It would give me more cover in the heat, so I swapped with him. Only he clearly did not want to part with his hat. He had no choice. Sensing danger, he let me have it and looked in disgust at the flimsy thing I'd given him. This was not cultural exchange: this was bullying, an assertion of dominance. I remember strutting away, slowly, the body language letting them know how I felt.

There was a supermarket by the bourse and, at the entrance, there was a Liverpool fan. “You're Scouse?” he said. There was no need for an answer and he knew what I was there for. “It's free to us today” he said, handing me a tray of beer. Things were spinning out of control.

On the way back to the square, the group of Liverpool fans by the jewellers had been replaced by riot police. Glass was scattered all over the street. There was hysteria — and pride — in my laughter. This was turning into an excellent day.

We set off for the ground and there seemed to be more and more small confrontations. On other days the little cultural misunderstandings would end in hugs. Here, with the hair-trigger tempers, it was tears, and we were determined they would not be ours.

AT THE ground there was madness. People were staggering, collapsing, throwing up. A large proportion of Liverpool fans seemed to have lost control. We met a group of mates who had come by coach. A fellow passenger we all knew had leapt off as soon as they arrived and attacked two people, one an Italian, with an iron bar.

Even in a drunk and deranged state, the stadium appalled us. The outer wall was breeze block, and some of the ticketless were kicking holes in its base and attempting to crawl through. Most were getting savage beatings from the riot police, finally making their presence felt. It was easier to walk into the ground and ignore the ticket collector, some of whom were seated at tables — I went home with a complete ticket. Four years later, on another dreadful day, I would enter another ground without needing to show my ticket. It is not just the Belgians whose inefficiency had deadly consequences. Section Y grew more and more crowded and, in front of us, a crush barrier buckled and collapsed.

The rough treatment by the police drew a response and they disappeared from the back of the section after skirmishes. Seeing a policeman beating a young lad who was attempting to climb over the wall and was caught in the barbed wire, I pushed the Belgian away. He turned to hit me and I punched him — not hard — through his open visor. He ran away.

With the police gone, groups of youths swarmed over a snack stand and looted it. I climbed onto the roof, and was passed up cans of soft drinks. It felt like being on top of the world up there.

Back on the terraces there was an exchange of missiles — nothing serious by the standards of the day. We looked enviously at the space in section Z, though. There were too many people in our section. I went to the toilet and, by the time I came back, the fence was down and people were climbing over. Unable to locate my group, I joined the swarm. In section Z I wandered around for a while. There seemed to be very little trouble. People backed away but there were no charges, just a minor scuffle or two.

I climbed back into section Y, oblivious that 39 people were in the process of dying. It was clear that a huge commotion was going on at the front, and we began to get tetchy about the delayed kick-off.

Then there seemed to be a long tirade in Italian over the public address system — someone suggested it was a list of names — and all hell broke loose. Juventus fans came out of their end and came around the pitch and attacked the corner where the Liverpool supporters were standing. My mother, brother and sister were in there. Everyone went crazy. Men tore at the fences to get at the Italians and, at last, the police did an effective job of holding Liverpool fans back. The brother with me said: “If those fences go, football will be finished. There'll be hundreds dead. It will be over.” Finally, the police drove the Italians back.

The game? I remember nothing. Afterwards? A deep disappointment, a nervousness about Italian knives, and a Belgian policeman whose parting shot at the stadium was to open the doors of a bus, throw in a canister of tear gas, and shut everyone in.

At Ostend it was a passive, depressive struggle through overcrowded departure rooms. No one mentioned deaths and shock ran through the ferry when we heard the news.

AND SO WE limped home, quickly throwing off any shame, repeating the mantra that it was a construction problem, just a wall collapsing, hiding from the scale of what had happened. The disaster has a long causal chain — stabbings and beatings in Rome, hair-trigger tempers, aggression on both sides, excessive drinking, poor policing and a stadium ripe for disaster. Remove any one link and the game may have passed off peacefully. But it didn't.

So, Evertonians sing, with pathetic self-pity, “Thirty-nine Italians can't be wrong.” Well they weren't. We were. I was.

Copyright - The Sunday Times

Back

Just back from getting in a few supplies I felt like Count Dracula walking through a church full of crosses looking at all those phoney bastards. 100% never stepped foot in the ground, not one of them.

Stay in, lock the doors, turn off the phone.

Just watching The Championship Playoff Final. Does anybody else have difficulty watching Sky Football coverage these days, with the constant replays and close-ups of the crowd (and even a thermometer during this game!)

The Replays seem to go on for ever, including slo-mo. They even slo-mo the crowd shots and managers now, and every trivial incident where the play stops, is over analysed in this way.

It seems to me the more technology they have, the worse the coverage seems to be. It becomes frustratingly unwatchable at times.

Fucking flag wavers everywhere in town, watching a big screen and flags hanging out of of windows, even seen a bloody dog wearing a shirt.

It will be unbearable if the result goes the way we all dread.

It is not so much the result but all the phoney hangers on, jumping on the bandwagon, women, children, pets, for the genuine fans a little bit of envy respect for following and looking to reap their reward, no problem with that.

But for all those who have never even been a game the armchair fans, then have the arrogance to tell you your team is shit and how good there's are makes me want the result for once to go Evertonians way.

A virtual conga should be set aside with the virtual world being the start point being concert square, every loved one who passed away or fellow Blue, allowed back in time for one huge conga, with invisible shields that defects any beer cans right back among them.

Then when they are down and out, a final act of a huge downpour, soaking every single one in the shitty champs league tshirts, with our invisible shield keeping us Blues dry.

Bitter and proud.

Wow John @ 63.

I've never read or heard the likes of that in all the years since that dark night.

When was this published, d'ya know?

Jay @67 afraid I can't date it mate. Needless to say, I doubt the RS press gave it too much attention.

Until quite recently, the same Tony Evans ('a Son of Shankly' or some such) was, I believe, Football Editor of The Times.

He now appears on TalkSport as a freelance.

Thanks for that John - and Phil.

So, do either of you know if Tony Evans, the journalist who is credited with the story, is simply reporting a third person's words on the day, or is he as a Liverpool fan (that is the inference I get from Phil) reporting his own first person recall of what went down that day?

All very distrubing, either way.

I always considered that Evans was the reporter rather than the fan, just my interpretation tho.

Well said, Brian,

As a towny, I was walking from Central up Bold Street, 18:00... Every accent under the sun. Concert Square full of red smoke, nob and tit heads.

I found sanctuary in the media-less Grapes on Knight Street.
If there is a God, just this one time... Please, you know you owe us.

John Wright, that is a monumental post that deserves scrutiny and a wider audience. Frankly, if that is fact, it makes them beyond words.

I don't think we should have a live forum. I don't think we should ever discuss them again. They are vile, utterly vile and I will never type their name again.

Just did some research John @ 71.

It IS Tony Evans first-hand report as a 24-year-old attending the Heysel final.

Scroll down to the last question the interviewer asks of Evans in this link to confirm it.

Link

Kudos to him for his honesty and how, in the link, he describes himself as 'a prick' that day.

Very interesting documentary on Channel 5 about the Dam Busters.

Rather than a no-mark like Silva, how about the no-mark like the Fulham manager. He's achieved as much as Silva and his surname doesn't end in a vowel.

Nice one, Jay; good work. Explains a lot.

Whichever way you look at it, it's the most depressing spell to be an Everton fan for many a year, seeing that lot challenging for major honours while, despite 𧶼 million pissed away by us, we look as shit as we ever have... can't even appoint a manager!

Join us on the live forum, chaps.

Jim - I reckon that l we have a manager sorted: it is Silva but the deal won't be announced until June due to his contractual clauses on leaving Watford.

Cant find the live forum???

Can hear them now.

“If we had Mo like, we win like.”

The Live Forum

Thanks Michael.

Kracker Karius!

That is sooooooooooooooo fuckin' funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not watching it but listening to 5 Live, however, full of red garbage commentary — I am happy!

You couldn't have scripted any better way for them to lose.

If we had a different keeper.

If Bale doesn't hit a worldie

If Mo isn't hurt.

If, if, if

Wonderful watching that.

LFC showed their class — not one player or management personnel went over to console Karius.

What a final!

Karuis is a legend!! It's a first for me to say I enjoyed watching the RS but that final gave me more enjoyment than watching Everton any time this season. Thank you, Liverpool, lol!!!

3-1 — thank Christ for that!

Now come on, Moshiri, and you blue boys, let's have a team that looks organised and we will be scrapping it out with the top 4 before you know it.

What, with the Goodison roar, how can we fail?

There is a God after all. Course, they've got their excuses already made ignoring the fact that Ronaldo looked like the original Ronaldo in the 98 World Cup final.

Peter, I saw that as well re the lack of support for Karius at the end. Unless the TV cameras didn't show it, it looked like Bale was the first to console him...

What a game that was. I actually once scored a goal the exact same way Benzema did.

RS fans should be blaming Klopp even more than Karius. Giving Karius the keeper's job over Mignolet was ridiculous.

Peter (#89), spot on. Even some of the Real Madrid players went over to console him, but his so-called "mates" abandoned him. When he went over to the RS fans to gesture his apologies, he went alone. Nobody wanted to be anywhere near him. Bunch of turds.

Can we have a vote? Slippy G or Carry On Karius for most watchable RS moment of all time...

Knighthood for Karius?

Whilst not noticeable tonight for obvious reasons, they all have turned on Mane this season as he has not been as good as last and cos Firminho and especially Salah have been unbelievably good.

Thank god they lost – all they've done is scrape 4th place as Arsenal were shit and Chelsea not at races as their manager got the hump with the club over the summer.

Anyway, they are yet again trophyless and classless (except Salah who has played exceptional and seems a genuinely good guy).

What a shame!

RS fans call-in on TalkShite right now. Comedy gold!

Stevie me lars face has taken a lot of the pain away from this season.

Well, the season finishes on a high note.

Thank fuck for that. They were well beaten in reality despite the comedy errors. It could've and should've been more.

Big Balls-Up Football, more like!

Listening to TalkShite right now is therapeutic after our shitty season.

Mike (#94).

I've also scored a goal not completely different from that. Although, I did have my back completely turned on the keeper.

And if John Malone of this parish makes comments about me having a fat arse, ignore him!!!

You have to savour a moment like this — and I will.

Anthony (#95), "Can we have a vote? Slippy G or Carry On Karius for most watchable RS moment of all time..."

Karius – hands down.

Thank you, Lord, my faith has been restored.

Karius is a toffee afterall.

Has serial cup final loser Klopp spoken yet?

Jay (74), thanks for that link on Tony Evans, never heard of him before but I will look out for him in the future.

Back to the match; very relieved and happy and that's enough for me; I will just listen to my red mates on Monday without gloating — it's enough for me they lost.

MotM? No contest.

Loris Karius.

Normally, I'd extend a great deal of sympathy towards a 'keeper for such calamitous clangers.

But I can't. I just can't.

Interesting stat that, by the end of the game between them, the two teams had five ex-Southampton players on the pitch. Some production line that.

Bollocks to Silva — that was pure gold!!!

Have to admit, I would love the chance to be as disappointed as the RS fans.

Will shut them up next week... phew!

Yeeeeehah.

Get in there, you beauty.

Klopp has lost more finals than Jimmy White.

Mark from Essex, Paul from London, Willy from Caerphilly etc. Don't the rs have any scouse support? Not listening to TalkShite.

As the Liverpool parade is not going ahead Sunday, perfect time to flash those new Everton tops off around town and take in the tall ships... be rude not to.

"...be rude not to".

Cracker, Brian.

Hopefully Kiev airport gets snowed in for the next few days. Russia invade so all roads are closed. Great end to the night!

Anyone remember "Careless hands" of Gary Sprake fame? Should reissue it... will go to No 1.

Oh my nnooo stop it.. can't hold it in any longer..

Hahahahahahahahahahaha deep breath..

#Hahahahahahahahahahhhhha

Tears...

I've heard Specsavers have made a bid to sponsor them next season.

Carl... True! Bale anybody?

That pitch invader was Liverpool's best defender tonight.

How sad, but it sums us up... over 100 comments on them losing. Unbelievable... no wonder they call us bitter... and we moan when one of them comes on The Echo site to take the piss.

Concentrate on matters Everton, for fuck's sake. Fuck them. Gloat all you want but we're not even close. So sort your fuckin selves out.

I'm so pleased they lost but it doesn't help us.

Agree Brian (#117) – plus as Farhad owns the Liver Building, no harm in lighting up the Liver Birds in blue for the weekend either!

Dave, I was desperately worried for friends and family back in the city today.

It would have been insupportable for them – all of you Bluenoses back there in the city – if they had won. Insupportable.

As for Tony Evans, I admire that he wrote so frankly and honestly about his – and many other Reds – conduct that fatal day, but in the link I posted I don't care for his justification for it and all the mitigating 'socio-economic' circumstances that he believed contributed.

Namely, how neglected and ostracised the city of Liverpool was under Maggie T's government and how 'angry' many young people were as a result.

Well, just one week earlier, possibly even greater numbers from the self-same city descended on Rotterdam to support their team in a European final, with presumably the same profile as many from the red side.

I was there. It was a day (and night!) long festival. Joy. Laughter. Impromptu games of footy between our lot and the local bizzies in the public squares. No bother. No violence. No thieving. The Dutch were full of praise at our conduct.

One week later – WHAM!

Oh come on, Mike.. we have had precious little and a lot to put up with from the RS supporters this season. It's just five minutes... savour it!!!

I'm bitter and proud of it, Mike.

Mike (#123), and yet here you are commenting on it.

Mike @ 123.

I'll somehow live with meself, Mike...

Chill out, Mike. You're totally right but, after the shite I've been hearing the last few weeks about victory parades, I'm gonna milk this.

The RS are lucky at the best of times and I had a horrible feeling they'd win tonight. Thank fuck they didn't. The relief and enjoyment of watching those goalkeeping blunders has made my weekend.

Mike @123,

Are you not local? If so, don't you remember the relegation parties that we thwarted?

So fuck them — I hope they revert to type and the world sees them in their true colours.

Not sure about 'sad', Mike, I am over the moon with the "It's ours" before a ball was kicked. Think yourself lucky you did not have to walk through town today.

God knows how it would have been tomorrow... so No, Mike, you are not taking this moment away from me; I despise the media-loving darlings with a passion.

I am and will suck this in and enjoy the moment.

Mike... I would not normally tell a fellow Blue to fuck off... but I diverge.

However, Loris, poor game mon brave... but you never wore cologne?

Conga at half-time at Villa Park in 92 is enough for me to say have at it.

Mike (#123),

Guess you've never heard the songs they sung about Seamus breaking his leg, or as someone else said, the parties that were organised for when we "went down."

Bitter? Yep!

Bothered? Not a bit.

Mike (#123), shut it, you muppet.

Absolute joy at the end of a disastrous season is something to love.

We can all enjoy the summer now and their smug, arrogant faces can feel well and truly smacked!!

Loving tonight!!

I didn't watch live. Just followed ToffeeWeb.

I've just watched the highlights on ITV. Funny as fuck. And I feel so good. I even think they were outnumbered in the stadium.

Merseyside is a good place to be tonight. There are fireworks going off... Hmmm, I wonder who they could be.

Do you think the council would be forced to give the freedom of the City to someone if a certain number of people wrote in?

There must be some sort of civic award for cheering up and putting smiles on the faces of at least half the population!!!

Get real, Mike – had they won, we would have never had the last of it from the arrogant bastards. I hope we appoint a manager this week, and get some images of the new stadium too — that will fuck them off even further.

We have had Fat Sam to contend with for the past six months and other clubs fans, including the RS, laughing at us — and the upshot of it all: we have no trophies and neither do the RS.

Plus, it was funny to watch them fall apart. Cheer up, Mike!!

Disgraceful lack of support for Karius from his own team mates and manager at the end. Totally without class. Speaks volumes.

I've never seen this Mike Barrett before. Somehow I doubt I'll ever see him again.

What an absolutely fucking fantastic end to a shite season! It feels good to be a blue again, can't wait for the new season now – oh and work on Tuesday.

There's actually a documentary on BBC right now about Kenny Dalgleish.
Hmmm, wonder why that was scheduled to be shown tonight?
:-)

I've actually retired but I'm looking for a job that starts on Tuesday so I can terrorise some of the bastards and then resign on Tuesday evening!!

Mike Jones (#137).

I heard the fireworks. You on the Wirral?

Mike#137 and Brian#146 – I'm on Wirral (West Kirby) and heard the fireworks. Thanks to whoever set them off – wish I'd thought of it!

Went to a TV-ree pub tonight but the great news filtered through! I suppose they achieved their six... but it was more of a personal achievement for the serial bottler Klopp!

Mike Barrett, spot on. The highlight of our season is gloating when they lose?

I am glad they lost because I despise them but does no-one see how fucking small-minded, small-time, bitter and sad we look???

If I was a Red and read this thread it would make me feel okay about losing because they are a million miles ahead of us.

Bitter and proud here.

I love to watch The Golden Vision film every now and then just listen to the singing "We'll hang the kopites one by one, from the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey" and more on about St John being dead.

That's the 1960s. They're bitter we still hate them now.

Martin (#147).

I'm in Greasby, think the fireworks may have been at a pub in Frankby.

I think that having a live forum on this game tonight was the lowest point on ToffeeWeb. Bitter, small-minded and fucking shameful.

Great night, Clippity Klopp's barren cup finals goes on — better than Stevie Me's slip.

Having tried to get the "All Out On 78" protest started, I'm about to start a new campaign to get Sam back.

He has won exactly the same as Klopp on Merseyside, but in a lot less time!

Y VIVA ESPANA.

Six times, six times.

The number of consecutive finals Klopp has lost!

Andy,

Was the live forum for the Fulham vs Villa match bitter and shameful too? Or are you just sad that a certain club lost in hilarious fashion?

Real Madrid 3 - 1 Red Shite. What a lovely scoreline!

Cancel the bus, boys, they ain't gonna be needing it! 😁😁😁

Andy (#148).

If you were a red and read this thread, then everything we've said would be worth it.

We know they're a million miles above us or whatever but we all (well most) have personally experienced or suffered their fucking horrible attitude towards us over the years, so I'm afraid it's tit for tat, Karma, whatever.

They've stuck it to us at every opportunity, as was mentioned earlier, with the songs about Seamus, the relegation parties, and lots lots more. This time it's their turn.

Maybe you move in different circles and don't experience what some of us do, or maybe you're just more grown up than us but I for one am going to enjoy this while I can and if that makes me sad, bitter and twisted I guess I'll just have to live with it.

So, Andy, Liverpool did not gloat at Villa Park at half-time in 92? They were not pissing their pants when we had Sam?

I've suffered for over 50 years of injustices against the shite, over the arrogance of all the street parties, the cock-sure "It is ours", the hangers on, glory hunting or simply out for a pissup and impress their boyfriends.

I can offer one crumb of comfort, though: at least they won the most assists stats with Karious.

Now leave the rest of us fellow blues to enjoy the moment the devil finally called in his favour.

Brian (#150) – I'll be in Irby Mill at 4:30 on Tuesday (as usual). If you can make it, we can have a celebratory pint together – I'll be wearing an EFC themed top as usual!

How dare you, Mike! Pathetic comment, yes we know how bad we are but, had they won, then it would have been unbearable for weeks, months even years — I'm celebrating tonight, thank you very much.

Might see you there, Martin. :-)

Ha ha ha — fuck all that "small-minded, bitter" shite being spouted on here. Bollocks to that... Well done, Real Madrid!

Made my night!!!

Colin (#142), correct. I think a troll provocateur just signed up for a one-time comment. Probably sitting there counting responses.

All the muppets saying we are bitter can do one!

Bitter and proud! Fuck the kopite scum.

I will sleep well tonight and do some serious piss-taking tomorrow.

So they are a million miles ahead of us, are they??? Not for long... COYB.

David, believe me, I just watched the highlights (I don't have Sky) and enjoyed it immensely. However, can you not see that our interest, having a forum for fucks sake, just makes us looks small and petty.

However, not living in Liverpool, I guess, makes me somewhat immune to the red gloating that would have transpired had they won.

So, I will take back that comment. Actually, I am watching the game again and would ask the editors to delete my post@ 151. It is, I am ashamed to admit, the most I have enjoyed a game this season.

Andy – I don't get why you're so affronted and what was so shameful? You posted something pretty insulting and something of a cheap shot at Duncan Ferguson in a thread the other week. Yet, call people small-minded for having a laugh at the RS's expense.

So it's okay to slag off our own off in a very personal and unnecessary fashion but not have a laugh at their expense?! Don't kid yourself. They'd be doing the exact same thing if it was the other way round.

How about getting Ramos — we could cheat our way to the top?

There ya go, Andy, let it all out, mate. Hahahaha — you'll feel much better.

Does anyone remember that Matt Lucas being the hypnotist in one of his shows.

"Now Loris, look into my eyes, not round the eyes, not near the eyes, into my eyes........ you're under."

"It's not a ball — it's a fish."

Gavin and others, sometimes the point is missed and I just missed it.

Apologies all round.

Jurgen "I've won Fuck All" Klopp. Long may it continue

Hahaha fuck the redshites. I love it.

Gareth Bale is sent from God.

Beeep beeep beeep beeeep. Hahaha. Hope someone got some pictures of the bus...

Andy @154: thank your lucky stars you have not had to put up with the local Merseyside news and streets full of gloating Reds these past few days; believe me, it has been pure hell on Merseyside.

We have little to shout about our side, been a shite season and would have topped it off them winning tonight and the weeks and years ahead.

Now we can look forward to a new era at Everton, new personnel, a new stadium, new manager.

Enjoy the moment with your fellow Blues.

Tapas all around.

All we need now is to sign Gareth Bale.

Andy Crooks.

You're a good lad Andy, but you've called this one wrong.

Being a Northern Ireland lad you are well versed in the vitriol that exists along sectarian lines in NI society. I'm not trying to make a direct comparison between that and divisions within the city of Liverpool along footy lines.

But long gone are the days when supporters from t'other side would support your team in a cup final as it won recognition for the city (yes, it was once like that).

There is now a darker side to the relationship and I for one delight in their defeat tonight, more for friends and family (and TWers) still residing in the city I left. Their lives would have been living hell otherwise.

Is 'Ramos' by any chance, Spanish for "dishonest, cheating snide"!

I have only one thing to say about the Red Shite Rout last night:

'Remember Heysel'

What a goalie!!!!

I've just had my brother a (Staunch RS Supporter) berating me on Whatsapp because I told him that the best team won!!

His reasons; 1. Liverpool matched Madrid in all areas.
2. Better Team.
3. 2 individual mistakes (that's a beauty) and...
4. Yeah but we lost Salah..

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Just goes to prove beyond any shadow of doubt that all Red Shite Supporters are indeed Dilusional!!

Andy,

I don't mind them thinking okay about losing.

Long may it continue.

Hope Boys Pen Bill releases a statement tomorrow saying "What a goalie". Hahahahahahaha.

I buy and sell vinyl records and get parcels delivered every day by the same postman. The same postman who supports the redshite and has had many laughs at our expense this season. He's consistent with it and about as funny as Jimmy Tarbuck.

I think Tuesday will be the first time this season I'll be actually looking forward to the daily football banter.

OLay Olay Olay, olay Olay Olay... you are shit without Mo Salah... you're a one man fuckin team Olay Olay Olay... olay olay olay the German cant win finals can't even win the league... Olay Olay Olay... Olay Olay Olay

What time is the parade for the runners up?
Love it, watching the scum get beat.

Christ, even though it was Liverpool, I still wanted an English team to win it but, once again, when an English team gets in a semi, final or big game against one of the big boys in Europe, they lose their nerve (choke) and concede the most ridiculous goals and fall prey to another show of contact acting.

I can understand crowd violence once again, another English team lost another major prize when it was there for the taking. It is so frustrating.

Maybe I am bitter small-minded etc... But I'm made up they lost and sorry but they are a bunch of twats when it comes to Footy. Being in the City is demoralising not because they're really good – as City are big because of their arrogance and entitlement.

It's great seeing them revert to type. Straight away, they're going on about Ramos (who is despicable but a very good player) about how he should be banned from World Cup and it's unfair – they actually believe he should be banned and already infiltrated the media with several papers running a story about how Ramos was seen laughing as Salah got sent off.

They simply can't accept they didn't win and were outplayed. Ronaldo was awful but they still got beat easy and fair play to Bale that goal deserves to win any final – probably one of the best goals – if not the best goal I have ever seen.

Phillip Warrington – I'm sure we're all so disappointed for you. Console yourself with the fact that it was a Brit who put the red shite's foreign mercenaries to the sword!

Buenos Dias mis amigos,

Jumped out of bed early for objective analysis of game last night (yeah right!).

Enjoyed some photos here

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2018/05/26/loris-karius-gives-tearful-apology-liverpool-fans-mistakes-real-madrid-7580859/amp/

"It's not losing, it's how you lose that matters"

And for those worried about taking the piss. Ease your consciences. The "bitter blue" thing is so clever as it scares some from our duty to take the piss when our rivals lose!

If we didn't, now then we would be seen as weird by fans all over the world.

And as for the media? Oh who cares. Man Citeh fans used to get the same for daring to take piss when Manure lost.

Adios

Phil @179

Are you sure you're on the right thread?

Andy Crooks,

Fair play to you for retracting your comment. Cap doffed.

You're spot on about one thing though. We are a million miles away from them, but as you know, a million miles can disappear in a heart beat in football.

We needed them beaten last night, not just because they have always taken time out of their "dreamland" to try to denigrate our club, but because a win for them would have given them a kudos they would have basked in for another decade. Rather than suffer non-stop ridicule from every arrogant gobshite we met. We now only have to mention their goalie's name and it will be a dagger to the heart.

Yes, we are bitter, bitter for all the reasons mentioned above. We are pleased to see these arrogant fuckers beaten. That pleasure is replaced by the shear unbridled joy of witnessing the comedy of errors which lead to their downfall.

Oh what a beautiful morning,
Oh what a beautiful day,
I've got a beautiful feeling,
Everything's going my way!

Watched it with a bunch of my Spurs fans... it was all about Gareth for them. I felt sorry for Salah, seems like a nice guy & once he went off, it was all over.

As a blue, school was hell which left emotional scars that I choose not to ignore today.

I love it when they lose and always will. EFC!

Philip at 179, I always want all English teams to lose in Europe.

Bitter and twisted? You fucking bet I am. If we can't be there, I want no one else there either. They are all meant to be our rivals after all.

I've got a smile like a lottery winner today!

How about the RS players totally ignoring Karius at the end of the game, whilst the Real players were the only ones to console him.

"You'll never walk alone"?

My arse – poor guy found out the truth... walking alone!

Horrible to watch.

Haven't laughed so hard in years.

Real Madrid won it without breaking sweat.

Embittered? Perhaps. Small-minded and shameful? I don't see it that way. That's the nature of rivalries – you revel in each other's misery.

If it were Spurs who shat the bed in a Champion's League final, I guarantee you Arsenal fans would be doing cartwheels and crowing in the streets.

This thread has brought back all those memories of me going to my first home games alone as a very young boy and being verbally abused at bus stops, on the buses and in shops by older RS boys. Am I bitter? Dead right I am!

Sorry, Andy, you had to live it to believe it.

Mike & Nicholas,

Are you closet reds? If you really closely watched the final, he didn't do any more cheating than any red or most other players would do.

If you are referring to his clever timing when Firmino (I think) was sucked in by him, it was clearly a foul and the free kick was given.

Overreaction by Ramos, well 'yes' but how many of those do we see by RS players? Yellow card – maybe but maybe not. The officials were pretty good on the whole!

Gerry, yes I saw that too, horrible RS twats. I actually felt some sympathy for Karius but still thank the devil for his work.

Definitely wearing a Real Madrid top with Bale on at the derby next season

Paul (#3) - You almost got your entire prayer answered. Just a couple of script errors! What a 1st goal by Gareth!! Worthy of winning any game!

Dear LFC.

I regret to inform you that your contract is terminated as from 19:45 on 26 May 2018.

Sincerely,

S.A. Tan.

Mike & Nicholas,

Are you closet reds? If you really closely watched the final, he didn't do any more cheating than any red or most other players would do. If you are referring to his clever timing when Firmino (I think) was sucked in by him, it was clearly a foul and the free kick was given.

Over reaction by Ramos, well 'yes' but how many of those do we see by RS players? Yellow card – maybe but maybe not. The officials were pretty good on the whole!

They travelled out to Kiev,
They said they had it won,
But on came Gareth Bale,
And then the game was done.

Mo Salah started crying,
Oh, poor old Jurgen Klopp!
He's lost another final,
And Madrid have got the cup.

Allez, allez, allez!
Allez, allez, allez!

Agent Karius indeed!

See Big Nev has tweeted his support for the lad; not much coming from Liverpool other than some bile from their supporters threatening him and his family with violence and murder.

Bunch of stand-up individuals there...

What a great night. The name Gareth Bale will be forever burnt into the psyche of the Red Shite for years.

Joe Hart available – the Red Shite could do worse. Oh sorry, they did!

I'm made up they lost. We aren't bitter — it is the most natural thing in the world to want your local rivals to lose. It is the very nature of football.

If you live in the city, you will have seen decorated houses, cardboard cut outs of Salah, their sanctifying of Klopp, their ‘profound' banners, flags on cars, and you will had had to endure the sudden emergence of Liverpool fans such as ‘Joan from Accounts' telling you she is getting a ‘6 times' plaque for her front door next week.

Your Everton-supporting kids will have suffered hell from their gobshite class-mates too and imagine what it would have been like if they'd won. I don't have to imagine as I came back from Wembley in 1986 on a mixed coach and then had to endure school.

So, despite them being a ‘million miles ahead of us', we both ended up winning the same number of trophies this season. Enjoy yourselves and fill your boots whist basking in their failure because you can be sure they would have made your lives hell if they'd won it.

As a blue, born and living in the city of Liverpool, it isn't the arrogance of their armchair army that gets under my skin. It isn't the fact that I have to grin and bear patronising pats on the head from people who know less about LFC than me. It isn't even the multiple times we have fell foul to bad luck and bad decisions over the years at their expense. It's the media perception both locally and nationally that really winds me up.

If I had time, I could write a fantastic and accurate article on media perceptions and overt bias relating to both clubs. Just look at how we have been treated for wanting Allardyce out. Removing Brendan Rodgers in an attempt to move the club in the right direction was not met with the same response was it?

The coverage they received prior to last night was truly over the top. Ditto when they nearly won the Premier League a few seasons ago until Slippy. Make no mistake, the media are absolutely desperate for the RS to do well.

The current format is built on a global fan base. Sky et al need to sell their product abroad, hence the overcrowded landscape of ex-RS pundits. Even for a Derby, it's common now to see two of their ex-players providing punditry with Michael Owen the co-commentator. This isn't paranoia, just a reflection on how things actually are nowadays.

Last night was great. It worked out perfect. It couldn't have been written better. They were beaten comfortably if you ask me and Real Madrid showed the quality that makes them Champions.

Without Salah, Liverpool looked very ordinary. Their bench was weak and underlines how truly far away from the big boys they are. But the media reaction in the next few days will no doubt paint them as heroes. It will no doubt underline the behaviour of Ramos. It will no doubt brush under the carpet any trouble caused in Kiev or the intimidating and over-the-top pissed up nature of Liverpool city centre yesterday when the armchair army descended. That's what truly gets my goat.

I can handle the knobheads in work as I can out-do them with my superior knowledge of their club, but with the media, it's very much an uneven playing field which cannot be controlled or responded to in the same way.

Well it appears that Real Madrid had the better side of the deal with the devil... thank fuck!

It's been horrible living in Liverpool for the last couple of weeks. Banners everywhere, koppites going on as though the trophy was already won. Darren is right, it was important for us that they lost as they would have banged on about it for years. The mileage the got out of Istanbul was shocking.

As it was, quiet night here last night and those shit red banners and car flags have been discretely removed from sight. Couldn't happen to a nicer team and being ripped off by all the hotels in town and by all the bars charging to get in couldn't happen to nicer fans.

They're fucking awful losers and even worse winners. So glad for Gareth Bale.

I thought it was their year (again) according to the fans? The pleasure in seeing them fall on their face comes from the level of deluded self-importance and self-promotion that comes from the RS press, former players on TV and radio plus the fans living on the fantasy that they are still a top club.

To understand the heart of the club, watch the inconsolable Karius left on the floor after the final whistle – even the bloody reserve keepers and goalkeeping coach left him there. It took the Real Madrid players to go and rescue the lad.

Their fans are always looking for someone to blame, the latest being Ramos for the injury to Salah. To claim he deliberately went to hurt Salah in that challenge is pure nonsense.

You were comprehensively beaten by the better side, so for once just accept it with a bit of dignity and grace.

Jim (#183), I've been supporting Everton FC for 50 years and will till the day I die. To me, the more English teams win in Europe, the more we keep the current European places, so that, when Everton FC get their shit together, England will have their full quota of European places.

(Remember when we got banned from European competitions, we were the best and entering the European Cup that year; not long after we were allowed back in Europe, we missed out because England lost one of its European spots.)

I hate the top Spanish, German, Italian and French teams more than any English team. I live in Australia and even the Australian Soccer press mock the so-called long-ball English style of play and even have the fucken cheek to blame the lack of technique of the players on the early British coaches. Every time I see a review of an English team playing against the above-mentioned countries' top teams which they seem to lose more than they win, it's because of their lack of technique.

So, when I watch a game like this morning Champions League Final and watch another British team loose again through their own stupidity and bad luck to a team who... fuck, it just makes my blood boil.

I just hope I can sit back one day and watch hopefully Everton dismantle a top European team in a final and say "Hey! We can play Football!!!"

Thank god the Champions League Final is over, we deserve a bit of relief and a bit of a gloat.

But dear me, we are on very thin ice ourselves.

Philip Warrington – as you live in Australia, you won't have had to suffer the build-up to this game in the city. Believe me, if they had won it, it would have been far, far worse than the faint possibility that English clubs might have lost one place in future European competitions.

Darren (#189),

Perfectly put. A big hug from me to you this beautiful morning.

Judging by their collective responses to Karius's obvious distress it seems you can very much walk alone: classy?

There is a Russian proverb that goes along the lines of: a man is offered his heart's desire, one wish by a mystical traveller with the one condition that his neighbour will be given the same but double.
The man says ‘take one of my eyes out'.

Feels a little like us after Heysel.

I get what people are saying that celebrating their loss gives them scope to call us bitter but that is just life. If they had won they would be much stronger next season: as it stands the team could lose Salah and, without him, they are very one-dimensional. In an ideal world we wouldn't have endured Allardyce and Koeman and with our own house in order their exploits would be almost irrelevant.

I grew up in the seventies and the only time Emlyn Hughes hilarious quips and Clive fucking Thomas's capers stopped hurting was when we were winning.

I want my team to make me happy.

I just had to have a little peek on RAWK haha

Quote from: bobadicious on Today at 09:39:23 AM

"Everyone defending Ramos just shows that Ramos is smarter than you. Smarter than the ref, smarter than the linemen. His cheating is a fine art disguised as accidents. Its world class cheating.

"It is a form of skulduggery and should be called out for it. The fact that it isn't, just indicates why football is full of loathsome people like him. I would hate to see us go down the same path, you can win without conning and injuring others. It cheapens Real Madrid as a club, and its why they will never be looked at with that much liking by others."

Got to love the gobshite kopites.

I am usually loathe to discuss the affairs of the RS on these pages, but even I realised during the build-up to last night's match, that it was a big game for them and potentially an even bigger game for Everton FC.

Had they added to their tally of trophies last night, the summer would have been a long and difficult one for us as Blues to endure. It would have imposed an unwelcome added burden on us as supporters, following on from what has been an entirely arduous season, it may have been too much for us and the club to overcome psychologically.

As it is, despite them scoring loads of goals and according to many pundits being the best English club side apart from Man City, and even before the dust had settled on City's Premier League victory, the apparent heir-apparents to that throne. But, thanks to Gareth Bale and his team, they have to show for their 'thrilling' season exactly the same number of trophies as the likes of Arsenal, Burnley and ourselves.

As has been highlighted elsewhere on this thread there are many many reasons to be cheerful for last night's result and there are almost as many questions to be asked about the media's outlook towards both Merseyside clubs, one is totally over the top and fawning to the red side, whilst the attitude shown towards the Blues is often dismissive at best and mostly condescending — if not downright insulting.

Everton FC didn't play last night, but it was an important night on Merseyside and whilst the result didn't add to our points tally or help us in our own quest for honours. It did help to put things on a more even keel as we look forward to the the 2018-19 campaign.

Come on, Moshiri and company, get our team back up the table and remind people that there are two clubs on Merseyside and more importantly let's start to ram some of the written and spoken words back down the media's throats in a positive way and in a way in which doesn't rely on the failures of other clubs but is a result of our own achievements.

But for now, I'm going to enjoy the rest of the Bank Holiday weekend and will not have to fret about the over the top media coverage that would have occurred had last night's result gone the other way. I'm sure the usual suspects will be trying to get Ramos a lifetime ban and the media will no doubt be telling us how our neighbours are nailed on to win stuff next season a millisecond after the fixture list is released.

But, fellow Evertonians, don't fall for the hype, Shankly started it in the early sixties and the media and the RS fans have continued the psychological warfare for nearly 50 years, it is about time we as Blues showed how much pride we have towards our own club and we should never be ashamed to display our colours in our own city.

As somebody once said, nil illegitimus carborundum — never let the bastards grind you down.

Two thing stuck out for me:

1) Southall showing his class by standing up for Karius.

2) Karius receiving death threats from kop-shites. How unhinged is that?

Geoff — they aren't very self-aware are they? I mean, they were constantly calling out Suarez when he was their player weren't they? Oh, wait...

Bob.

Not any shade of red but I can't stand great players resorting to cheating like this. Reminded me of Bilic diving to lose Blanc a place in the World Cup Final (one reason I couldn't bear to see the twat in a blue shirt).

I went to my first hurling game last week to see Cork in action (just realised they play in red) and Ramos would have been bludgeoned to death by his own team mates for that kind of snidey shit.

Lawrence Green — fabulous post and very very true, physiologically it would have been disastrous for us

Thank you, Sergio
Thank you, Gareth
Thank you, Zinedine
Thank you, Real Madrid
Thank you, God
Thank you, RS Keeper
Thank you, UEFA, for hosting the final in Kiev, so the journey home will be long, depressing and horrible — welcome to our world!!!

I still can't recall where Ramos 'cheated' last night. Not saying he is a saint or anything, but I think some people have been drinking the RS media cool-aid.

One-man team beaten and out-thought by Real Madrid.

Please can anyone post some photographs of the tour bus again? All dickied-up with "6 times"...

Also, can Joe the Mayor give Bale the Freedom of the City?

Martin (#186). 'Console yourself with the fact that it was a Brit who put the red shite's foreign mercenaries to the sword!'

That was no Brit that stuffed the sword up their Red arses — it was a very proud Welshman.

Wales suffers the same media attention that Everton suffer — it is always played down... Welsh, mate, and not British!! Why do you think we are surrounded by British castles? They were built to keep us down — think Everton... think Wales!

Phillip Warrington, I suspect you're suffering from too much Aussie sunshine.

There's the purely emotional reason for wanting Liverpool to lose. But you are forgetting the hard-nosed business reasons too. Like it or not, football is now a purely commercial environment. To be successful, you need money. And you don't get money if one of your major rivals in the marketplace is taking a forever greater customer/market share at your expense.

Yesterday morning, I was watching an Under-10s football team doing its weekly training. Of the 15 kids, 11 were wearing Liverpool kits. That type of imbalance began, I believe, with the fluke at Istanbul in 2005, and it shows little sign of slowing down.

Victory last night would have only accelerated our relative decline. And you say you would have preferred that just for the slight chance of greater numbers of Premier League entrants in future European competition? Come on!

Real Madrid could have scored maybe at least 5 had there not been those offsides.

I think to blame their goalie would be wrong as Liverpool appear to be nothing without 'Mossalahhh' (rip off from James 'All Sit Down?). It was quite shocking how Liverpool fell apart without him.

It's like a gang of so-called hard knocks — if you were to punch the hardest gang member and he goes down, the rest may not do anything. It's like a group psychology — the ability of the gang, or in Liverpool's case, the team, was artificially based on their Talisman.

It shows Klopp doesn't really promote individuality for the Liverpool players to believe in themselves. On paper, Liverpool should have won that game. By comparison, it would appear anyway, that Silva promotes individuality and will get the best for Everton — even out of the weaker players.

If I knew how to post photos, I'd post a couple of crackers I received!

Most of us would have watched the game in Kiev along with millions around the Globe – so you don't have to be a closet Red to comment on it.

I am not a medical person and we must wait for the x-rays and scans before we come to a decision on the Salah injury, I have watched it a few times and, at the moment, I am not fully convinced it warranted him walking off so early in the game. You can imagine the Bookies raking in the money over who would score first, Salah or Ronaldo.

Was he more concerned about the World Cup? Reds players over the years would play with a broken arm rather than let their mates down — remember Gerry Byrne with a broken collar-bone?

Anyway, I could be totally wrong, but I don't trust today's mercenaries — it's all about money.

Lawrence Green, The post I would have written if I was able to. Thank you!

Incidentally, there's a Spanish lad in work who supports Atletico Madrid. My heart goes out to him, he's been telling anyone who would listen that the RS lost the final the night Atletico won the Europa League the other week. His thinking was that there is no way the devil would allow their fans a summer of gloating over the Real Madrid fans.

Seems like Beezlebub might actually have two clubs, but favours one more than the other!!!

Rob (#213) — Welsh or Scottish when they lose but British when they win!

Well, the full meaning of the word 'smug' has finally clicked. In fact, I am the Smuggest Smuggler in Smugglesville. The warm glow of karma is marvellous!!!

I personally think it is not too clever to wallow in somebody else's personal or collective grief or disappointment. But this time,

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!

FOYR

I have just re-read this thread in the cold light of day and it has been, not for the first time, a chastening experience. I often watch games here with reds who are friends and the atmosphere is good but perhaps I am being patronized without knowing it.

Anyway, I absolutely get where you are all coming from and understand how annoying it must be to be given a sanctimonious lecture from someone who has entirely missed the point.

I have to say, also, that it has been the match of the season for me. Their treatment of their goalkeeper was truly shocking.

Like all one-man teams, they looked to their main man and said, "Mo, carry us..." but all they got was... Loris Karius!

Well said David. Ha. Ha. I like it.

Sadly though Karius will probably be moved out now – especially after the snub by his ''teammates''.

Having lived in Madrid, Real are my luxury club – so it was a great night.

The idea that the Reds were in any way favourites, peddled by our Premier League, red-tinged media, was pretty delusional – a team that finished 4th behind an average Man Utd and solid Tottenham Hotspur. After Salah and Mane, the rest of their squad could be filed under 'over-achievers' compared to Real Madrid's.

Fair play for the run that they had – but as soon as that became entitlement and their owner started having a go at Barcelona, I was glad to see them put in their place, to be honest.

Some of our fans have short memories as regards slagging Ramos off. Them two twats, Gerrard and Carragher used to referee the derby. As for Cilla Black... well, let's not go there.

As Carl 25 said. One-man team. When that whingeing bastard went off, they went to bits. Great night and I'm wallowing in it.

Good lad, Andy. For the many reasons listed above, like it or not, this was an important game for Everton as well as 'them'.

Now, it is down to us to close the gap on them and t'others at the top end.

BTW Andy, did you ever see my post you requested from me, about Brazilian football and the South American teams in the World Cup to assist your punting next month...? From memory, it was on a thread referencing Watford and Silva.

Thanks, Jay, I did see it. So far I have backed a Germany - Belgium final @ 25/1 and, as a result of your comments, Brazil @ 9/2.

Hi Andy,

Just to give you a flavour of how bad things were for us Blues city dwellers yesterday, have a look at this cringeworthy "article" in The Red Echo

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-fans-shut-down-city-14710708

Read the comments; I thought this one was spot on... "this newspaper is an absolute danger to this city"

Oh well... off to play the jukebox in the Cracke. Sylvia (1974).

Andy,

Belgium to win group: 5/6.

Buying money.

Phil, if Sylvia is 1974 do you mean Y Viva Espana? The eponymous single by Focus was 1972 I think.

Only joking. Have the RS fans kicked off as that blares out?!

The only thing I've heard from RS over the past few weeks is that since 2000, they've played in more European finals than we've won derby games. It sort of puts things into perspective when we complain about media bias etc... and it's a stat that Everton players should be made aware of.

I woke up with about 30 messages on my phone taking the piss out of the RS, but the stat above has to sting every one of us. There is no mention of last night's game on TV this morning, it's already been brushed under the carpet of footballing history by the army of pundits and radio hosts out there.

Let's hope we can find the players and a manager who can erase that shameful record we have against these fuckers. Fresh start next season.

Andy (221), I don't mind the Reds who go to the game, most of them hate Everton as much as I hate Liverpool and we know where we stand with each other.

It's the ones who haven't been to the game for 30 or 40 years, blame it on they can't get a ticket, even though they never went when the place was getting, well, less-than-full houses... People, not fans, who haven't got a fuckin clue about any of their players, who don't know what Anfield even looks like now.

Their families buy them Liverpool watches for their birthdays, even their closest relations think they are fantastic supporters because they never miss a match on the TV, they'll tell they are going to the match, which means they are going to the pub to watch it... Andy, I could go on and on.

I'll leave you with this: I went for the papers this morning, a distance of 300 yards, there and back. Three of the people I have just described told me they lost because Real Madrid set out to maim Salah. As someone said earlier in the thread, I'd rather be called 'bitter' than actually be fuckin' deluded.

Kevin @ 230.

With you all the way, Kevin. I've also been hit with that one by SMS and my inbox.

Whilst I'm relieved and delighted they lost yesterday, that doesn't paper over the cracks – the gaping canyon – of just how pitifully we have performed against them over the last two decades.

It makes you city-based Blues an easy soft target for the mocking disdain you have to live with.

Moshiri, Brands, and whoever the new (or future!) manager is, need to address that.... Big Time!

Attendance at Mass was quadrupled. Sore heads all around but quaffing the altar wine like it had gone out of fashion improved things. Half left to continue celebrating; the other half went home to take down the flags and banners.

The crap excuses for losing are sickening. I can honestly say LFC and it's shithouse supporters showed their true colours.

Hillarious but disgusting at the same time.

Best I've felt since 95!

Just made the mistake of putting on Sky Sports News to bask in the aftermath and strangely there has been no mention of the match since 14:00.

Nothing. Cricket, Monaco GP, Tennis, Rugby and the League One play off. Maybe a Tiddlywinks update to follow after the break?

Slightly annoyed at first but it's actually superb.

Today is a very good day.

The crying about Ramos is sanctimonious rubbish.

Souness booted the life out of people to win the European Cup all the time, but that's okay.

I enjoyed a great day on the the beach at Santa Cruz California, logged on with 5 mins left and logged out with a grin.

You reap what you sow.

I like to play my little guessing game with kopites...

Just ask them..."When was the last time you won any Cup Final in 90 minutes"?.

You'll be waiting a fair old while for a response, folks!!!

Hi Dave [231] you and I are singing from the same hymn sheet, I too went for the newspapers this morning, and the young lad asked me if I had watched the match last night, he had a look of astonishment when I replied, "Yes, but I must tell you I'm an Evertonian, and I thoroughly enjoyed it!"

I expressed the opinion that I stick to now, and that is, I thought that Real Madrid deserved to win because, for most of the game, they were the better team.

I too have an issue with the bar-room pundits, and as you say, we know you know exactly where we stand with the match-going fans... but there is a difference between buying a shirt and a scarf, and buying a season ticket.

With regard to the injury that Salah suffered, I don't think that the challenge was meant to cause the injury; the damage as far as I could see was in the fall. The young man in the shop said that, had Salah not been injured, Liverpool would have won, I tried to explain to him that no-one will ever know.

I then reminded him that Real Madrid also had a player who had to leave the game early through injury; he responded by saying "But our player is a goalscorer!" I countered that by pointing out that the player they lost was a defender, whose main purpose is to prevent goal-scoring opportunities

It reinforces my belief that, in their view, the game is supposed to be played for the benefit of Liverpool FC, and every other team is there to make up the numbers. Well, tough luck – it's just not like that.

I've hated them since 1977 when we were robbed in the semi final and then Emlyn Hughes came out with his Everton are tragic chant outside St Georges Hall. Thats a long period of time so yesterday was a great one.

They think everyone should love them and just cannot comprehend why we don't.

They hate Man Utd and belittle us. Due to their sense of entitlement, they couldn't stand Chelsea when they started to win the league and this is now happening with Man City.

I may be bitter but it's only toward one team, horrid horrid establishment.

One comment from an rs on the Echo website is (to somebody who is obviously a Blue) "Get off our forum".

"Our forum"! The Echo forum! Entitlement again!

Although I am from Liverpool originally (Garston), I now live near Nantwich. I drove to Crewe yesterday around 4-ish to do a bit of shopping and there were RS shirts everywhere. As always, I was wearing an EFC themed top and drew a few sly smirks. I had to go to Crewe again earlier today so I wore another EFC top. I didn't see one RS shirt today but the most disappointing bit was that no one said anything about EFC to me – I was dying to show off my delight! Perhaps the smug smile said it all.

As others have said we need to get our act together now and start catching up withthe top six. A derby win or two would help as would a good cup run. Come on, Mr Moshiri, show us what you are really made of; there is suddenly a feelgood factor for EFC at the moment and we need to make the most of it.

Neil (#251), ditto — still to see a single RedShoite shirt all day and all the banners that bedecked the 'Barcode' Bar in Heswall where taken down faster than a Whore's Knickers. I've not heard a peep from a single Gobshite acquaintance; no surprise though, vast majority are just Shithouses.

BS (#227). It is apparent that my post at 213 was way beyond your comprehension – but I fully understand your response!! CaB, COYB.

Really pleased for everyone back home getting the chance to take the piss.

The lad over the road from me supports them (his mum's Scouse so fair enough). Yesterday afternoon, we had a quick chat. I mentioned that their weak link was the keeper and that if Real were on song they'd win. He was, they were, they deservedly won.

He asked me if I thought I'd ever see EFC in a European final. I told I already had, in the flesh, in 1985.

I hope everyone down there enjoys the gloating. It's more important that we sort ourselves out this summer. Things can change very quickly when you call a few decisions well and we have the chance to start doing that this summer.

I hope this summer is dull, functional, not much from Silva/AN Other, maybe the odd signing. All the hard work has to be done behind the scenes and at Finch Farm. I don't want a peep out of us till August when all that work starts to bear fruit and we start surprising people.

In the meantime, give 'em all plenty from me!

Ramos's disgraceful attack on Mo Salah was pre-planned and intentional. Actual Bodily Harm. Uefa should strip Real Madrid of the Champions League and replay the match at Anfield. Ramos should be imprisoned and banned from Football."

The above is a Facebook post from a local councillor.

,Ramos disgraceful attack on Mo Salah was pre-planned and intentional. Actual Bodily Harm. Uefa should strip Real Madrid of the cup and replay the match at Anfield. Ramos should be imprisioned and banned from Football.

The above is a Facebook post from a local councillor.,,michael.kenrick@gmail.com ,1,15:58:32,,2.217.134.209,ok,9355,05/27/2018 15:58:32,peter@acsurveyors.co.uk,reader,, 921761,36716,toffeeweb,27/05/2018,Dermot Byrne,debyrne57@gmail.com,"Which one, Peter?

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/965736/Real-Madrid-news-Champions-League-win-Liverpool-dressing-room-celebrations-video

I'd rather not say, Dermot, other than it's within Sefton. I think the poor chap has made himself look sufficiently silly without the embarrassment of further identification.

Peter @ 225.

Please tell me you made that up.

Or it is a spoof account.

But then again, knowing what we're dealing with...

Seriously funny, if serious.

It's fabulous the amount of bitching and bleating they're doing. Ramos cheat; if Salah stays on, we win, Karius lost it... blah, blah, blah. Fucking great.

It's just a pity that Real Madrid didn't get a dodgy penalty in the last seconds to win it, that would have topped the lot. As it is I'll take this, will shut those smug fuckers up for the summer. Peace reigns again in Liverpool.

Watched it, i thought Liverpool were the better side until Salah went off. Different game after that.

How anyone gets to that level and has a howler like the keeper did is beyond cruel.

Went out for a few jars, Ubered it as I wanted to have a few. The Uber driver was RS of course. A 50-something Croatian who fled after the breakup of Yugoslavia to Germany. I kid you not, these are the bandwagoners the kopites collect.But their money is as good as anybody else's, I guess.

Anwyay, he told me he thought Klarius had been threatened by the mafia or taken a bung to throw the match. I'm not joking.
We at least agreed Koeman had spunked a hundred million on shite. They're deluded, but we're talking next level disbelief to not agree on that one.

Couldn't make this stuff up, now they've got a petition of over 150k signatures demanding Ramos be punished for his challenge on Salah. Conveniently forget all the leg breakers Slippy G did or Kuyt's karate attack on Neville.

Offended by everything; ashamed of nothing.

I think Sergio should be given a medal. Wonderfully sly tackle...

Possibly the finest yet on the Echo website:

"There is nobody else like Liverpool fans, nobody brings what we do, songs banners"

Article just above that one:

"Police investigating death threats against Liverpool goalkeeper."

Brilliant.

Kevin,

They've tweeted threats against his family as well.

Yep, I saw that, Kevin, fantastic!

LoL— it's fucking true!

Mohamed Salah is counting on you
Mohamed Salah Abdel-Hakeem needs your help with “UEFA: UEFA & FIFA should punish Sergio Ramos for intentionally hurting Mohamed Salah”. Join Mohamed Salah and 170,304 supporters today.

UEFA & FIFA should punish Sergio Ramos for intentionally hurting Mohamed Salah

Sergio Ramos intentionally kept Mohamed Salah's arm under his armpit, causing dislocation of his shoulder. Not only missing the rest of the game, but also missing the FIFA World Cup 2018.

In addition he kept acting that Liverpool players fouled him falsely, causing the referee to give Manne a yellow card he did not deserve.

Sergio Ramos represents an awful example to future generations of football players. Instead of winning matches fairly, he uses tricks that defy the spirit of the game and fair play.

UEFA and FIFA should take measures against Ramos and similar players, using the video recordings of matches to keep the spirit of the game.

Mohamed Salah Abdel-Hakeem started this petition

As mentioned previously - outraged by everything, ashamed of nothing!

Has anybody had anything to say about one of their idiots trying to stop Ronaldo scoring a fourth?

At least Karius has apologised – he's held his hands up – if only he'd used them to save Bale's shot. (Apologies if this one's been done already!)

Absolute pleasure to watch that game last night. I had money on Real Madrid but it is the cancellation of planned parades and parties that pleased me the most. Kopites are a horrible set of supporters. Forget family and friends — I am talking from a football perspective.

If I was Farhad Moshiri, I would replace the Rupert's Tower badge on our kit with a blue Liver Bird. Take it back to its origins. I hate the way Kopites have hijacked a symbol of our city as though the Liver bird is solely for Liverpool supporters.

The Liver buildings plus the birds now belong to Farhad Moshiri so let's take them back to where they came from. Such an action really would send out a message and wind up the Kopites beyond belief...

Nothing worse than watching the Norwegians and whoever else thinking they own part of this city's heritage just because they cling to a football team from this City while Evertonians have to adorn a jail cell for pissheads as a club emblem... it's just not right.

EFC should push to have the club more widely recognized and connections to this City more instantly known. Stadium on the Dock Road and a Blue Liver bird on the Kit to me says this is our City now.

Makes a huge statement of intent.

One very positive thing from last night, no nurses will be urinated upon from the upper deck of the open-top bus, as they were in 1977.

Denis #268 "Sergio Ramos intentionally kept Mohamed Salah's arm under his armpit, causing dislocation of his shoulder".

(I know you are quoting Salah there) – whereas we all could see that Ramos locked his arm with Salah's right arm – not his injured left arm. A red by me in the pub looked at it 10 times and still maintained the arm lock pulled Salah's arm out of joint.

May I share an email to a mate?

"I have the diction just right now, after practice, for work on Tues morning.

I am purposely going to be late and wander into our small office

"Buenos Dias mis amigos"

Ramos es un truco. (Ramos is a cheat)

Fuimos robados. (We were robbed)

Det er så urettferdig. (It is so unfair...in Norwegian)!"

One line ready for each excuse they come back at me with.

By end of 4 they will realise the value of preparation!

Past 4 I will just imitate Norwegian not the brightest bunch.

Never looked forward to work after BH before!

Will report back!"

Any other ideas welcome.

Rob (#254) – "It is apparent that my post at 213 was way beyond your comprehension".

No I understood exactly what you were saying, Rob, and was supporting it..."Welsh or Scottish when they lose but British when they win!" – in other words, non-Welsh and non-Scots people conveniently claim the Welsh and Scots as British when they win but disown them when they lose.

Last night was one of those games when I wanted both teams to lose.

I know that I am going to be castigated for this, but I really was incensed by what happened to Salah. I know he is a Red, but he seems to be a nice chap and is not a big time cheat/diver in the box (Unlike some Ronaldo's I could name), and he is great to watch.

To see that dirty, cheatin' hatchet man, Ramos do what he did and deliberately take him out, was a disgrace. He then managed to get Mane booked for not even touching him. I have watched Real Madrid cheat their way to win matches, by rolling all over the floor, wasting time, and Ramos deliberately taking out players who are a threat.

Lucky for Ramos that Karius has managed to hog the limelight. Without that, just maybe his hatchet man approach may have been highlighted more. I hate cheats, and Real Madrid are amongst the biggest. Having them win is bad for the game of football. Shame in some games, both teams can't lose.

Certainly, Real Madrid did not deserve to win last night. But then, watching Liverpool win would have been just as bad. Still, we can all forget about it now and get on with speculating about our Manager and players, with only the interruption of the World Cup!!

Tony (#2710,

I love it! Blue liver bird, we should start a petition, perhaps we can replace NSNO with “I'd rather walk alone”.

This has been the best thread ever. Some unbelievable posts. But John (#63)... Wow! That was some read.

Christine Foster, I've got nothing but the utmost respect for you and your posts but surely to god you couldn't have wanted them to win? – no way! Yes, I'm bitter... but the way I've put up with them and their smug remarks and Whatsapps the last few months have left me shellshocked.

It's now the day after the game and yes, I'm celebrating... but, by god, I feel like I've deserved it. I didn't watch it — just sat in silence in my brother's who's equally as bitter. At 9:48, we put the score on our phones and the outpouring of relief was sensational.

By god, the night was long and I'm still carrying on. But guess what: I haven't heard a fucken thing off one of them bastards all day. Now, why's that???

Karen, I see your point but can't help wishing we had more ruthless defenders.

Karen, football has been full of cheats and hatchet men since the year dot but more in evidence over the last 20 years because of the exorbitant money involved.

The managers expect there own hard men to do a number on, fairly or otherwise, to limit what opposing players can do.

Salah was obviously the danger man and Ramos did his job although even he probably didn't expect to cause a dislocated shoulder.

Watching the Championship Playoff Final yesterday, I saw a skilful player like Grealish get the rough treatment from Fulham which ultimately led to frustration by Grealish himself.

I was thinking even before the RS game that Salah would find it very hard to repeat his goalscoring feats next season as he would become a marked man, literally.

Case, Suarez, Gerrard, Ince, Dicks, Carragher, Souness, Fowler, Ruddock, Kuyt. What goes around, comes around.

Listened to 5 live last night after the game. Hosted by Dalglish's daughter and Lawrenson. I can't stand this prick. He just kept saying “goodnight” over the top of a Carlisle United fan who dared to suggest that players like Henderson and Milner are ordinary. He even questioned whether the caller watched the Premier League games. An obnoxious tosser with chips on both shoulders who should be off the airwaves along with Alan Green. Sick of ex RS players all over the media saying “we” with their red blinkers on.

To quote SAF, we need to knock them off their fucking perch and get some pride back.

Karius tried to put his head in his hands... kept missing.

Karen

Because I'm not a sexist so I am going to treat your post with the contempt it deserves had it been posted by a male.

Real Madrid were by far the better side and throughly deserved to win. They have the won European Cup and its successor 13 times and for the last 3 years running. Cheats? I don't think so.

I don't particularly like them... but they are a great side with some of the best individuals in world football who turn it on when it matters. Your analysis of Ramos is unfair: he is a brilliant leader and defender for club and country. Salah hasn't apparently dislocated his shoulder and is going to the World Cup.

I am delighted the RS got a hammering; it should've been more emphatic and would have been had it not been for the knobhead who ran on the pitch.

I am also delighted they are in despair – their classiness characterised by death threats made against their own hapless keeper.

Hala Madrid

Karen's 100% right with regard to Ramos. Ramos is a cheat, and an animal to boot. I've seen him many times try to injure the opposition's most threatening player – just as he did last night against Salah.

Don't get me wrong: I'm absolutely ecstatic that the RS lost, and in the way they did too, but it still doesn't change what Ramos is and what he did.

And Karen's post doesn't deserve to be treated with contempt, keep that for the RS.

That's four cup finals in a row the Red Shite have lost now, is their pact finally coming to an end??

There is some interesting footage being shared on the internet, showing Ramos viciously elbowing Karius in the face in the 49th minute. Shortly after that, Karius fell apart.

I'm sorry I can't share it. It was on someone's Twitter account, but it does go a long way towards explaining the mishaps. Try googling "Ramos elbow".

Recent posts calling Ramos a cheat, animal etc... I fucking wish some of our players were a bit more like him.

Brian,

I'm sorry but you are talking shite. Ramos is a great player, a bit of a nasty bastard at times, but lots of truly great footballers and leaders are.

In my opinion, Karen's post does need to be treated with contempt because she is advancing an argument those crying RS gobshites are pushing on various social media platforms and on radio.

I have just listened to 30 minutes of TalkSport and it's the same (Karen's) argument that deluded Liverpool fans are advancing. To be fair, they are being laughed at and even the arch kopite lover Dean Saunders defended the Devil that is Sergio Ramos.

Agree with Ed @284 100%

Why are we not just focussing on the fact that Real Madrid were deserved winners last night? A wonder goal fit to win any game. Why bring anything else into the equation?

That's exactly what winds me up about them. Leave it alone. Real Madrid outclassed them last night, Salah or no fucking Salah. Karius had a mare. Fuck all to do with Ramos.

Sergio Ramos?

Win-at-all-costs defender, do anything to win the game.

Top, top player; I wish we had two or three with his mentality.

Ramos is no worse than Suarez who crocked Distin in the derby because he had him in his pocket.

Not to mention his biting and diving, also, don't get me started on Skrtel who must have got away with more penalty infringements by shirt pulling than anyone I have ever watched.

Fuck em, Ramos did his job and did it well.

A little off topic but two things in regards to shoe on the other foot.

The first one, many have picked up on: the lack of support for Karius from his team mates at the final whistle.

I am sure there are a few others, but one that sticks in my mind is the support Forest gave after that fateful day, and replaying the game in 1989.

It went Liverpool's way but when Laws scored the own goal and him down and gutted, cue John Aldridge running over to him laughing and rubbing his head to celebrate the own goal.

Ed (#289).
Firstly, quit the insults – that's not how we generally do it on here.

You've already shown yourself to be a sexist by explaining that you'll treat Karen's post with the contempt it deserves "had it been posted by a man". You couldn't have said anything more sexist, mate. Someone who wasn't sexist wouldn't bother explaining – they'd just post.

And I'm not talking shite; I'm disagreeing with you – which again is something we do on here, usually without personal insults and people accusing others of talking shite because their opinion differs.

RS do have a number of average, over-rated players who were ''bailed'' out (excuse the Bale pun) last season by the speed on the break of Salah, Mane and Firmino

Henderson is a Southgate brown-noser who is not England class and, along with a few others, shouldn't be going to Russia but it's one man's selection and he has to live with his failure which it no doubt will be.

The RS who are bombarding Karius with death threats and abuse are probably the same loveable scamps who bottled the Citteh bus.

YNWA? Their poor goalie was certainly walking alone at the end of the final. Best fans in the world, eh? They won't recover from this for years, 4th place is up for grabs next season.

Brian (#293), that was a despicable act by Aldridge. To compound it, he subsequently claimed he was trying to console Laws.

We are not bitter. We just observe, and remember.

Brian (#294), that's a bit unfair.

If Ed doesn't want to be sexy, that's his prerogative.

Brian,

Please don't patronise me. I have been posting on here long enough not to get upset when somebody says my opinion is shite (and often a lot worse). It's a forum for people to say what they think and feel – not a polite debating society, FFS.

I will, however, refrain from saying you are talking shite and rephrase it thus: I think what you have written is illogical, facile, and condones some of the execrable excuses advanced by followers of LFC – is that better?

You are right, though: I should have just attacked Karen's post as contemptible drivel regardless of her gender.

I have no intention to offend you or anyone else; if you are offended, then I genuinely apologise.

.

Ramos is, without doubt, the best central defender ever. He is a winner that wins at all costs. Strikers have their way of gaining an edge, eg, elbows and raking the Achilles. He does what's required to win games. If that means taking out the opposition's best player, then so be it.

Nice guys come last.

Is Karen a girl or are you all just assuming?

Karen – really!!! Are you serious? Your post has upset me

For God's sake, I don't give flying fuck if one of the most decorated and brilliant defenders in my lifetime brought down Salah, most pundits agreed it was part of the game and these things happen.

IMO, comments like yours sums up why our beloved club will always play second fiddle to that horrible institution.

Have you forgotten how that shower have behaved over the last several years? How they have defended Suarez with his animal and racist antics? I could name umpteen similar injustices where they have benefited over the years and we've suffered.

Agreed it doesn't make it right but that's the game and we've been on the receiving end more than most (eg, Collina & Villarreal).

I was always told: "What goes around, comes around!!! – Payback time... and I, like the vast majority on here, am ecstatic after last night. If you're not, then hang your head in shame.

As I and many others have posted earlier – Do not underestimate the physiological impact on EFC had they won last night.

Right now, the City for most of us would have been a no-go zone whilst the media would have been in a frenzy for weeks and months.

We start the 2018-19 season as equals.

Hi Ed at #289. Don' t worry about appearing sexist. There are a lot of you around football, so it matters to me not a jot!

I work in Spain quite a few months a year so I watch Real Madrid play often. Do you? I watch the unholy trinity of Ramos, Ronaldo & Marcelo practice the dark art of cheating, game after game. They are at their very worst against better clubs.

Ain't no denying that Real Madrid have some great footballers which is what makes it unnecessary. Ramos is past his best, so cheats more to compete. It is true that cheating is everywhere in football, but the more high profile the cheats are, the more they should be called out & made an example of. Ramos is a case in point as they don't come much higher in European footy than him.

ps: Ed. I love a good debate, so never worry about disagreeing with my posts!! I'll mostly have an answer to you. :-).

pps: Speaking of which, I've posted you back about Rooney on that thread too. Keep up the good work young man, and maybe you'll learn as you go!! :-) Sorry if that sounds condescending. Hehehe.

Is it me or will Salah now be a marked man in the Premier League? The RS clearly had no Plan B, long may it continue.

I hope he receives similar treatment from our defence, not because I want to see him injured but sufficient to knock him out of his stride.

We need to learn from Real Madrid and put some needle into our game.

Hi John (#303),

I suppose I just used Salah's incident as it's the latest. Sorry but as somebody who plays sport, I just hate cheats. Sadly, in football it has somehow become 'acceptable.'

Let's face it, we all become enraged when somebody cheats against us & benefits from it. Or is that just me?

Only way we take this unsavoury side of football away is to make an example of those who do it. God knows, there are enough of them...

Just thinking about the 1965 FA Cup Final, Gerry Byrne, the Liverpool left-back broke his collar-bone after a heavy challenge from Bobby Collins of Leeds Utd in the 3rd minute of the game.

He played on for the rest of the game plus extra time; he must be turning in his grave.

Dave (#307), that memory came into my mind today. Together with other recollections of players coming back onto the pitch with their arm in a sling – remember Beckenbauer in 1966?

I reckon a one-armed Salah is better than a fully fit Lallana.

I take Karen's point. Madrid are despicable bastards, I loathe them with a passion.

But she's also somewhat missed the point as well. At the end of the day, most Blues don't live in Spain. And 99% of us know a lot more Liverpool than Barcelona, Real or Red Bull Salzburg fans. I watched it, not so much enjoying Real Madrid's win but more enjoying the screaming, bulging eyes and dogs abuse from my RS "cousins".

That's how you should take the reaction here. If they managed to conjure up a Despot XI of Pol Pot, Stalin, Chairman Mao, Hitler, Mussolini (sweeper naturally) and all the North Korean Kims as subs and they rolled Liverpool in a cup final, you'd find the same reaction.

Also, I thought Ramos knew exactly what he was doing. The irony of the beautiful game is that it rarely works. From Cruyff's Dutch teams to the RS last night, it's generally the case that substance usually trumps style.

ps: Dave (#307) – Why would the Egyptian Salah not be more concerned with appearing at a World Cup than winning a pot with a team he probably never gave a fig about until they signed him?

Karen, it is quite understandable your opinions on cheats as no one likes to see it. Your opinion on a Real Madrid player is not being received very well by some people simply because of who the opposition was.

I started watching Everton in 1956 and have seen a lot of dubious decisions given against Everton when playing against the other lot from across the park, so when it happens to them, I believe most supporters think, it is about time they got on the wrong end of some decisions.

I live in Canada now and see lots of Spanish football on TV but it is no worse for cheats than any other leagues. Watch a slow motion of the Ramos tackle – it was hard but not dirty, just my opinion.

I've just seen on Sky Sports: Mo Salah to join Real Madrid, he said he was unsure but Ramos as twisted his arm...

Karen,

Regardless of where you work, you know nothing about football if you think Ramos is a cheat. Athletes are cheats; cyclists are cheats — footballers never cheat, they stretch the rules to the limit but can't cheat as there is a ref; if there is a cheat, it's the ref.

Yeah Phil (#311). Klarius apparently told him it was an opportunity Salah ought to grab with both hands.

Karen, in a perfect world, you would, of course, be right.

However, if it were us and we were in a final, would you kick up if we got a dubious penalty in extra time to beat Liverpool?

Sometimes you have to do what you have to do in certain circumstances.

I can't remember Anders Limpar getting too much stick against Wimbledon. If he hadn't dived, possibly we'd be playing Rotherham today in the playoff final.

Karen,

That's an amusing response. If only I was young, sadly I'm not. I was brought up not to be rude to women by my mother, so I do apologise at my clumsy first response to you on this thread.

I was, to be honest, angered by your post as you appear to be inferring that Real Madrid are 'cheats' whilst Liverpool are not?

I do not know how old you are? But I assume you would have also been equally appalled by Peter Reid, Kevin Ratcliffe, Andy Gray, Graeme Sharp, Pat Van Den Hauwe, Johnny Morrisey, Tim Cahill, Alan Ball to name just a few Everton players – all of these players played up to the line, bullied opponents when they had to – are they all cheats too? Should I revise my opinion of them? I have seen all of those players, have you?

No I don't live in Spain. I do however know that Ramos has played over 700 games for club and country, scored 70 goals from central defence, lifted the World Cup and European Championship twice for his country – not too mention his many honours with Real Madrid.

The reality is gaining an advantage over your opponents is a facet of all sports and one person's cheat is another person's hero. The three players you slate from Real Madrid are all great footballers, although I can't stand Ronaldo as he is vain and arrogant.

I am intrigued by your comment about Salah: "I know he is a Red, but he seems to be a nice chap" – on what basis are you making this analysis?

I will respond to your post about Rooney in due course, who is clearly angelic, still gifted, and beyond any reproach in your numerous posts supporting him.

The person I really need to apologise to is Jay Wood (Brz) for inferring he was being sexist when he was questioning the appointment of DBB as CEO. Jay, I now see how easy it is to be misconstrued.

Teflon to approach Karius to promote their new non stick pans.

"We think Karius will be the ideal person for us to sponsor and promote our new product, seeing as fuck all sticks to him", said a spokesman for Teflon.

Karen, please don't post here defending the most despicable, cheating bastard team of all time, even if it is in defence of some warped sense of fair play. All winners push the boundaries of "cheating" to its very limit. Andy Gray's goal against Watford? Clear foul. We lifted the Cup.

The red shite have done it since the '60's.And won everything, cheating, spitting, biting and kicking their way to every piece of silverware. Behave yourself.

Kevin, absolutely spot on.

Don't think I've been incensed about another Blue's post for a long time. Assuming, Karen, you are a proper Blue, your post has me questioning where your true loyalties lie.

Pele came back on in Escape to Victory in a sling and scored a overhead kick.

John (#319). “Kevin, absolutely spot on”.

Really? Utter nonsense. Andy Gray's goal was a thing of great beauty.

Ash (#309), you're not saying Salah cheated Liverpool last night, are you ? God forbid!!!!!

Kevin (#317), Liverpool got done in 1937 for trying to fix a game along with their friends (then) Man Utd that was most probably the first time the bastards got caught. They have been doing it since they moved into our former ground.

John (#304),

I think it would be pushing it a bit to say Everton fans would suffer physiologically if the RS had won. Psychologically perhaps...

Peter (#309),

Wasnt that the Italy vs West Germany semi-final in Mexico? A wonderful game, btw.

Ramos gets out on Bale.

Sorry Brian yes predictive text

Brian (#242),

Strangely, no local kopites out this lunchtime and, of course, the tourists cancelled their hotels and slunk home.

Sergio Ramos plays to the absolute limit of the rules.

He has been and remains an outstanding player.

An outstanding captain.

A win-at-all-costs winner.

All the above contributes to him holding the record number of red cards in the Spanish League. I believe it amounts to 24.

Any club with ambition to win trophies needs a leader like Ramos to ensure the team do just that: win trophies.

'Cheat' is too strong a label to stick on him.

'Ruthless and professional' are more apt.

I would love to have one or two of his ilk at Everton.

Yep, to the rest of the league, he would be a 'cheating dirty bastard'. But to us, he would be our 'cheating dirty bastard'.

Hi Ed @ #316 (your Mum brought you up very nicely) and Kevin @ #318 (I'm a big fan of your posts; you have made me laugh so many times on here, especially in the recent dark days)

John @ #319 — this is to you as well, as I seem to have upset you too.

Ed, firstly, as you pointed out on the Rooney thread, did you not, that we are all entitled to our opinion, and should not be castigated for it.

Kevin & John, it was not my intention to defend the RS at all. Clearly, I have not expressed myself very well if that is what you both thought.

So, this is my last post on this, I promise. :-) Sorry if I angered you too, Ed. Not my intention at all, and certainly not my intention to infer that Real Madrid are cheats and Liverpool are not. I've just seen more of Real Madrid over the last 10 years than I have watched Liverpool.

My post was just to highlight,that in a high profile game, like the Champions League Final, that cheating should be brought to light, whoever is doing the cheating.

I love a tough player who doesn't mind mixing it up on the physical side. I'm that sort of player myself. I admire a tough defender with a big set of proverbials as much as the next fan, especially when that is teamed up with skill. However, for me, the tough, skillfull, determined, fight to the death, leave everything out on the pitch type players, are not cheats. 'Playing up to the line' as you express so well, Ed, is not the same as crossing the line.

I admire all the players you listed (except Andy Gray) and yes, watched them all play. Using physical strength to win the ball and using every means you have against your opposition to gain the upper hand is what sport is all about, and I relish that.

However, I only admire it when played 'up to the line'. Cheating is when you cross it. That's something different and which I despise.

None of the players you listed (except Andy Gray) were cheats. They were as I described above. Physical but fair. Players who dive, players who feign injury to get another player booked or sent off, players who roll around the floor when not injured to run the clock down, etc. They are the cheats. Ramos and Co (and numerous others to be fair) behave this way as though it is a normal and acceptable part of the game.

As a fan, and a sports person myself, I don't think it should be acceptable and I think we need to say so and make a stand against it. Honestly, guys, don't you get really really angry when you see players doing that? I do, and feel so strongly about it. Being resigned to "It's just part of the game now" is not the ethos I live by.

Ramos's record is impressive, but that he has been so successful, doesn't make it okay that he's a cheat of the worst sort. Not in my world anyway. I know he's not the only one but, if we don't make an example of cheats, it will remain in the game.

It is my opinion, however naive it may seem to you. I HATE CHEATS. Let's get it out of the beautiful game.

Right. That's all I have to say on it. I'm off to get some beauty sleep!!! :-)

Hi Dave [322] you are correct in stating that Liverpool and Manchester United were involved in a match-fixing scandal, but you were a little bit out on the date.

It was on Good Friday 1915, Liverpool had lost 2-0 to Manchester United, putting on a display that was widely described as having been staggeringly inept, and there had been a flood of bets on that scoreline at odds of 7-1.

The bookmaker refused to pay out, and had claimed that the result of the game had been arranged in advance, so that the home team would win by 2-0.

The Football League started an official investigation in May. Under intense questioning, one of the Liverpool players finally confessed, and the enquiry's report just before Christmas told a sorry tale.

The plot had been hatched in a Manchester pub and had involved several players from each team. Bets had secretly been placed throughout the country; many of the other players knew what was going on and, although they were not involved, they said nothing.

Eight players, four from each club, were banned for life: Tommy Fairfoul, Tommy Miller, Bob Purcell, and Jackie Sheldon of Liverpool, and Laurence Cook, Sandy Turnbull, Enoch 'Knocker' West, and Arthur Whalley of Manchester United. Sheldon, a former Manchester United player, was alleged to be the ringleader.

The punishment of seven of them was lifted at the end of the war to reflect the fact that they had made amends by fighting for their country. However, the pardon came too late for Turnbull who was killed in action.

West was the only one of the four Manchester United men to have actually played in the match and his ban was not lifted until 1945, despite his continued insistence that he was innocent.

I hope you don't mind me furnishing this information Dave, but you know what I'm like for accuracy.

Well said, Karen (#329 and other posts).

I didn't read what others read into your opinion of Ramos in the first place (and that's not to disparage their take on it either, but finding what you said as a defence of the neighbours is beyond me.

I fully agree with your views on cheating and he, Ramos, is an arch-cheat as far as I'm concerned, which is a shame because he does have talent and heart too.

In my youth his equivalent was Jack Charlton (70 goals in 700 games), and others, he in particularly admitting to keeping his "little black book" containing the names of players he intended to cripple when the chance presented itself. A yard-dog indeed, with no business at all being involved in what has decreasingly to me become "the beautiful game".

Well done to Real Madrid, 100% deserved the win and shown up the media darlings as a one-man team. Sickening that the press are calling the Liverpool defeat 'heartbreaking'... to whom? The majority of football supporters don't like them.

That's 6 out of 7 finals Klopp has lost, and long may he continue. Not one of the RedShite went near the keeper, even Mark Lawrenson commented on it. And now the lad's had death threats! It is only a game!

Philip cannot be EFC with that comment.

All I will say on the matter, Karen, is Suarez biting, Suarez going down to try and gain an advantage and card an opponent on numerous occasions, the same said player ensuring Mirallas's finest game in an Everton shirt in the Goodison derby came to an early end injuring the player. Not content with that he then dragged his studs down the back of Distins leg in the same game, this the said player playing for Liverpool.

It goes on everywhere, I even heard some Reds mates saying Ronaldo ankle is dodgy and a good hard tackle early on could nullify him.

If you want cheats, look no further to the Hamilton goal disallowed in the 77 semi-final, the Alan Hanson hand ball in the 0-0 Milk Cup Final, the blatant Carragher pull on Lescott but penalty appeal waved away.

The Stevie G changing the refs mind ensuring Hibbert got a red card instead of yellow.

We have had it for years, they have got away with it for years. ZAgftrIf it was indeed intentional on Salah, Liverpool for once were on the other receiving end for a change, not that I agree whether it was intent or not, it just so happens for once it went against them.

A little surprised by the vitriol over Ramos as I read the action differently, particularly after watching it many times. Seems that both players were trying their hardest to win the ball because, if Salah could get through, it was likely to end up in a goal for RS.

Both players were travelling at a decent pace and both were using their arms to try to gain the best result. At this pace, is it reasonable to state that Ramos suddenly thought "Shit, if I fall over the little bugger, I can break his shoulder!"?

On the other early departure, the commentators missed the studs of Firmino (I think) on the back of Carvajal's ankle. Clearly intentional by him and completely from behind.

Did this even things up? Well, probably not as Liverpool were heavily reliant on the Salah threat and were the better side until the injury to Salah. But, IMO it's fair to even up the fair play arguments.

Dead right, guys. RS have had more than their own fair share of refereeing decisions over the years.

They have no right to complain about Saturday's game.

Just bad losers, as we have seen from Klopp many times.

Great to get back on TW and see some genuine joy.

Dermot and Marshy may form an unlikely alliance, but they have inspired me to start a new business venture. I'm thinking about knocking out banners which have a big blue Liver bird with the words "Det er sa urettferdig" underneath.

I wouldn't have to leave these pages to be raking it in.

Just checked the main football page of the BBC, there are 20, yes 20, articles on the RS or the game and that's on the front header page. Who cares? Bias perhaps? Pandering to the sulking moaning complaining, losers. The BBC should be ashamed.

Not surprising to see that our adorable neighbours have been threatening the Hero of Kiev, Karius, and his family. Such a classy bunch aren't they? So classy they did the same to their beloved captain slippy (Chelsea move) and Fowler (drug deal gone wrong) but the media adore them (especially the BBC) as Christine quite rightly states.

Oh, and Herr Klopp singing a deluded song full of vulgarities and profanities with a bunch of RS mobsters is laughed at and lauded in the fawning media. Would the same be the case for another manager?

Christine, whatever you do — don't open the Echo website!!!!

I think Salah should shoulder most of the blame.

Darren (#338), superb, go for it. I'd take a Royal Blue tee-shirt with that message!

Bob (#336) – that was my take on both incidents. You see the Ramos - Salah type tusstle hundreds of times a season. Had Salah not been hurt, it would not have attracted anything more than passing comment.

John Mc (#330).

What a nugget – Liverpool had a player named Tommy Fairfoul.

Sorry for all you Ramos haters but this guy is THE best defender of his generation by a mile. I've watched him since he was a kid at Seville and have admired him ever since. Yes, he cheats, employs dirty tricks etc... but he's a fantastic, defender, player and captain.

Ramos will go down as one of the all-time greats alongside Beckenbauer, Moore, Maldini, Fachetti etc... I've missed out a few but, despite what Sourness says, Ramos is fucking brill.

Stephen (#324) – Thanks, you are correct about Franz Beckenbauer. The player I was thinking of was Meszoly, who came back onto the pitch with his arm in a sling for Hungary in that memorable game against Brazil at Goodison in 1966.

John (#330) — to add to that, I read (it may have been David Conn in the Guardian) that in the spirit of 'national unity' in 1918 the FA cut a deal that the northern clubs' match fix would be overlooked in terms of club punishment if Arsenal were allowed to start the new season still in the top flight despite finishing in the relegation places in the season before the league programme was suspended. Hence the Gunners' record of never having been relegated.

Colin, I agree. If Jags had the same mentality he would be captaining England in the World Cup.

For me Chiellini, Godin and Ramos are the best of their type. "Thou shalt not pass."

It's their job to stop – albeit in whatever manner they can. "After you, Claude" isn't in their vocabulary. Italy have won 3 World Cups based on defence; no matter how cynical, it's part of the game.

Love Ramos, great player.

Not nearly as objectionable as Suarez or Grobelaar for example.

TalkShite in meltdown trying to justify the Liverpool defeat. Makes me laugh when they call Sergio Ramos a dirty player. The same club that had the likes of Souness, Case, Suarez, Smith, Skirtl etc... and hero-worshipped them.

Coiln (#351),

Just listening to that mate and heard that gobshite Danny Murphy openly admit that (doing people) "Stevie G was the best at that he'd go through the ball and through the man and do him." "He'd get the message someone needed doing and he'd do that, through the ball, through the man and then, Oh sorry" to take one of their players out of the game.

By the way, Col, you summed up Ramos perfectly for me: Yes, he cheats, employs dirty tricks etc... but he's a fantastic, defender, player and captain.

And that's the point I was trying to make in defending Karen the other evening. In my view, I still believe he set out to "hurt" Salah. Did he set out to dislocate his shoulder? As Danny Murphy also said on Talksport "not even a mixed martial arts expert could do that in the heat of the game."

But again IMO he tried his best to hurt Salah in that challenge and basically nullify the RS's biggest (only) threat, which he did to perfection.

I'm not denigrating him or defending the RS (like that's ever going to happen!) but just trying to comment on what I believe are the "facts".

I'm the most ardent of RS haters, as you know, but commenting on what I believe Ramos did, isn't defending the RS scumbags.

Colin – don't forget Carragher whose regular manhandling of opponents was far more obvious than anything Ramos might have done.

I'm hoping that all this media hand-wringing over the RS defeat doesn't give UEFA the opportunity to "forget" that they still have to deal with the club-inspired, violent assault on the Man City team coach – a minimum one-year ban from European competition wouldn't be inappropriate.

All the red supporting media just can't handle the fact that they are not universally liked as these media guys would like you to believe.

Oliver Holt writing this morning that he cant understand the bitterness to Liverpool after Saturday's defeat. I mean what planet are they living on, Henry Winter another red supporting journalist, he was also tweeting pictures of flares surrounding Liverpool and their opponents arriving at Anfield. But as most of their supporting journalists tried to make out it was only a handful of Liverpool supporters throwing bottles and cans at the City coach. I must have seen at least thirty bottles or cans being thrown.

I guess they will have to come up with a new song as after their players and manager completely ignored Karius immediately after the game — they can hardly sing YNWA. Even Real Madrid players went to console him, but this wonderful team with great team spirit ignored him.

I've spent the whole season asking why a defender doesn't just take out Salah early in the game. Sounds like Ramos did it to perfection.

Was it a foul? Was it deliberate? Did he aim to injure him enough to get him off the pitch? No fucking idea, I didn't watch the game...

But when you have a one-man dominated team like the Red Shite, you stop that one man if at all possible.

Martin, I forgot Carra but then there are too many of them to mention.

Bri, there were some juicy challenges by Liverpool in the first 10 mins or so on Real Madrid players to try and knock them, so it was only a matter of time before the likes of Ramos and Co would start dishing it out themselves.

Btw, what a player Varane is. He was immaculate.

Tough on Salah, tough on RS... but shit happens!

Get used to it, RS fans.

Real Madrid brought on Bale; Liverpool brought on Lallana. No comparison.

Even if Ramos was a trained stunt man and had choreographed that challenge in minute detail a hundred times, it might not have resulted in Salah's injury. Pure bad luck. A tough challenge from a hard defender who just wanted to let the attacker know he was there.

Tommy Fairfoul? Did he have a son also named Tommy by some woman called Smith by any chance?

As far as I am concerned, The Red Shite are the vilest team on the planet. I can abide Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal (especially after winning the league at Anfield in the 80s) but Liverpool and their gobshite supporters bring football to the bottom of the barrel I hate them with a passion.

One of the Highlights of my life was a workmate who had a Liverpool season ticket along with his mate who couldn't go and he asked if I wanted to use it at Anfield against Arsenal in Bally's first season there. Arsenal won 2-0; I was the happiest man in the ground both watching them lose and seeing Bally and his passion against the Red Shite.

This is better in Welsh - 'Heb os" = 'without doubt'

Gentlemen please be upstanding and raise your glasses 'The toast: 'Ramos', coupled with the name off Kurios"

"Ramos & Kurios"

Cheers.

I've just been to a supermarket in West Kirkby for a couple of items. Two employees (in their mid-late 20s so not kids) unloading / stacking fruit and veg talking about Karius, one of them stating that “I know it's only football but I hate that bloke and hope he gets cancer.” It was not stated in a private one-to-one fashion.

For a city with two football clubs in close proximity, I've always been aware of the huge difference in culture between the fans. I softened my stance after the Hillsborough verdict and am sympathetic to that cause.

But, on the whole, leopards do not change their spots.

While we may have our differences on here (managers, players, the board etc), one thing for sure is that I can't ever see Evertonians descending to the gutter levels so prevalent amongst the RS.

Whether it's their throwing missiles at buses; their relegation parties (how bitter is that?); Heysel – and subsequent excuses; death threats; their collective sneering, fawning over each other and whining (there's now a campaign about Salah apparently FFS); their self-entitlement and self-pity, or whatever, they are an embarrassment to the city.

If the human species exists long enough, kopites will evolve with the ability to kiss their own arseholes.

The media (national and local, especially the BBC) bizarrely pander to them and often let them off the hook but, from social media comments, I think more and more people are starting to recognise just how vile they are as a fan base.

Anyway, nice sunny Bank Holiday and no gloating RS stinking the place out. Can you imagine what a horror show this weekend might have been around these parts and, now thankfully, is not?

Enjoy.

The media spreads the myth that they are everyone's second team. In my experience that is far from the truth.

For example, I have been asked many times when I'm in a different part of the country or on holiday "Blue or red"?

When you tell them "Blue", it's always "Ahh that's okay then."

John (#330),

No problems with that information, I've learned from it so thanks for that.

You mention Tommy Fairfoul, Everton had a player in the 30s and 40s, I think, who was a scout for Everton in the 1980s, doubtful if it is the same person because of age but Fairfoul is an unusual name so possibly a relation of the player involved in the betting scandal much earlier in time?

All the discussion on the Ramos - Salah incident is crazy. Ramos was making sure that if he himself was going to go to ground then Salah would be going with him. Happens all the time (other than at Goodison Park it seems, where Keane typically just accommodates the moves of the opponent!). 100% the thing defenders should always do.

Madrid deserved the victory. The usual intensive opening salvos by the RS had produced little. The game was already up by the time Salah went off.

By the way, if you want to refresh your memories about what is truly an awful and deliberate attempt to maim an opposition's best forward, look no further than Ratcliffe's second-half challenge on Lerby in the famous '85 semi win over Bayern Munich.

A petition asking for Ramos to be punished has now reached 300k and the Echo have a link asking "Have you signed it yet?"

Has there been an outbreak of Bank Holiday madness or is the water supply infected with some new drug? It was a game of football, one team got the breaks go its way, the other team didn't; one team carried off the trophy, the other went home empty-handed.

That's the way it goes in finals — get over it, for God's sake!!!

I live on the South Coast and know of at least two victory parties that will not be happening. Love the idea of fireworks In Liverpool. I just can't wait to see the plastic red twats later this week. YNWA unless you're Karius, — you're on your fuckin' tod, mate. Shame of his team "mates"...

Lawrence,

You're right, it's madness, but I can't tell you how much pleasure I'm getting from every single deluded RS who adds their name to that embarrassing petition. I hope they organise a march to Ramos's chippy to burn it down next. I'll even help with their banners and badges, the pathetic bunch of laughably ignorant tossers.

In fact, I'm off to sign the petition now.

Hi Guy [330], it's an urban myth that Arsenal have never been relegated, they finished bottom of a 20-team First Division in 1913, and were relegated along with Sunderland.

The following is an extract from the 'Illustrated history of Football'

Although Tottenham had finished bottom of the First Division in 1915, the League had decided to increase the two divisions from 20 clubs to 22. The last time the League had accepted extra clubs in 1905, there were no relegations.

However this time Derby County and Preston North End, first and second in the Second Division were promoted, while Chelsea second from bottom in the First Division were elected separately. There was a ballot for the final place and seven clubs applied.

Behind the scenes, Sir Henry Norris, the Machiavellian Chairman of Arsenal, had been conspiring with John McKenna, the Liverpool Chairman and League president. So transparent was the plot that before the election, McKenna urged the clubs to vote for Arsenal using the specious argument that they had been in the League longer than Tottenham Hotspur. However, he conveniently ignored the fact two other candidates, Wolverhampton Wanderers and Birmingham, had been members even longer. Wolves in fact were founder members of the Football League, and had also finished above Arsenal, who had finished in 5th position.

Having lost the vote, Spurs took the Second Division by storm, finishing as Champions with 70 points, six points ahead of Huddersfield, and scoring 102 goals. They even reached the quarterfinals of the FA Cup where the lost by conceding an own-goal to Aston Villa, the eventual winners.

So Guy, you will be able correct anyone who says that Arsenal have never been relegated and, even in those far off days, Liverpool had a hand in 'skullduggery' by way of a man often referred to as 'Honest John McKenna'.

Hi Peter [345] and Len [359], I often wondered how anyone could have the name of Fairfoul, it does seem a bit of a contradiction.

Peter, I'm hoping that we can have a get together on Sunday July 15th, 12 noon, at the Midland Hotel, opposite Central Station.

Lot more Blues days out today I'm noticing. Especially the younger ones in their full kits. Knowing nods between me and a few parents in the big Tesco. We've had shit for three weeks; it feels good.

Football forums (including TW) get their fair share of idiotic statements, including my own, in the heat of the moment. We can say and do some stupid things at times. But a couple of days after that game and a petition like that, signed by so many?

Surely you're winding me up on here. People can't be that serious about the Ramos and Salah coming-together, can they?!!! This is just laughable.

RS making themselves the laughing stock of football! I'm with Michael Lynch — the bigger the petition, the greater the derision.

As has been mentioned, how we could do with a couple of his type in our team !!

We must be the most wimpish lot ever to kick a ball. Hardly ever get in the opposition's or officials' faces. Accept every decision that goes against us. It's never-ending.

Would we organise a campaign against the Club if we ever signed a Ramos type player?
Did we organise a petition to relegate ourselves after the Limpar dive?

When I think of the past players from the 50s and 6's we had who could take care of themselves. Then later Mick Lyons, Reidy, Van den Hauwe.

God only knows what people want when we ask for the physical aspect, whether legitimate or not, taken out of footy. What would we moan about?

John McFarlane, I'd like to gatecrash your midland get together on that day to talk all things blue, have a gloat over thr RS and put the EFC world to right if that's ok?

Can I just check...

It's Salah's right arm Ramos got hold of and not the left one – the one connected to Salah's left shoulder that was hurt?

Hardly deliberate then surely.

Correct, Anthony. A guy in the pub kept saying Ramos pulled Salah's arm out of its socket, despite the incident being shown over and over and showing what you say.

Lemme get this straight.

Carragher – spits on a teenage girl

Heysel

Slippy G – studs up assault on Gaz Naismith

Death threats to Karius and family

Yet 300,000 wankers sign a petition demanding Ramos be punished for inflicting a freakish injury on the pitch on Salah?

Truly fucking demented.

The interesting thing is that these twats are up against an icon and captain of the most powerful club in the world. The wailing and gnashing will be for nothing.

Amit (#375),

May I please add another to the list?

A Z-list Celeb offering to fight Ramos because he's a coward!

And John Aldridge for dissing an insect... and upsetting the victims and families of the Manchester bombings.

You couldn't make this stuff up.

Can you elaborate on that, please, Stephen?

Hopefully this will open and will make you laugh:

Nice one, John. Did feel for the workman though as he was more worried about his job!

Way too many arguments going on here with a Liverpool-related result. It is a big relief and we should all be happy they cannot rub more salt into our wounds.

I cannot stand Ramos, for what it is worth, but he is a born winner and it says a lot for him that the only man to constantly get mauled by him and yet still come out on top is the Little Maestro, Lionel Messi.

How lucky are the Spanish public to have regular viewings of the best footballers on the planet. Stuff we can only dream about at weekends.

I hope Mr Brands has a few names up his sleeve who can give us a glimmer of what these top players in Spain offer.

It always staggers me that so many Evertonians seem more interested in debating RS issues than they do those of our own club!

Phil (#381), a match as big as that game concerning Liverpool hasn't happened for about 10 years, so it's no big deal we are discussing it — especially with a few debatable incidents.

Phil, did you see their flags ridiculing Everton? Really? On their biggest night for 11 years. We must matter. I intend to milk this defeat for all it is worth whilst hoping our leadership give us something to be proud of in our own right in the next couple of seasons.

Phil,

I understand what you're saying but this has just been Comedy Gold over the last couple of days.

To my knowledge, there's been 3 journalists from national newspapers bleating... one even suggesting that Ramos should have been sent off to even things up. You can't make this stuff up!!!

The World Cup is coming... new signings.., new hope and hopefully pics of the new stadium. It's put a great big smile on my face after a miserable season.

Been another interesting thread etc. Ramos is very clever, knows what he is doing..

One incident that doesn't seem to have been picked up much is Ramos appearing to elbow Karius minutes before he threw the ball against Benzema. Knocked him down to the ground. Commentator picked up on it at the time. I would describe it as a bit naughty.

Surprised the Liverpool fans aren't claiming Karius must have been suffering from concussion...

For those of us who can remember football from the 70s, the Leeds vs Chelsea FA Cup final in 1970 (not sure if it was the first game or the replay) has to be one of the dirtiest/most physical games I have seen. I am sure the players involved at that time just laugh at the modern-day players.

I saw that, Ian (#385). Watching highlights, it doesn't get replayed.

Are you suggesting Karius was suffering from double vision, Ian?

Phil... do you have any inkling about football rivalry in the city and in cities across the world?

To most, it matters; you can stick your head in the sand all you like when we are doing badly, but it still matters.

We sit and say nothing, they win and we really do become a club nobody knows about.

For the record, I'm not reveling in Saturday's outcome as I know it'll come back round and bite us in some way eventually – it always does. Having said that, I have found it quite good fun!

I'm a fan of Ramos – I bet every player would love him in their team as they know they'd come out on top in any mind games or physical confrontations. He's a bit naughty but he's also a born winner and I don't think he gives a fuck what fans of other teams think of him.

Out of curiosity, I've just had a look at #Ramos on Twitter. I'm particularly intrigued by David Conn of The Guardian. For someone in the national media, he doesn't seem to mind offering his extremely one-sided view. He's putting in a fair amount of effort to try and alter how the final will be remembered – all about how disgraceful Ramos is and even a back catalogue of his misdemeanours to ensure everyone knows how nasty he is!

The RS have a one-man national propaganda team right there!

The latest in this ongoing Ramos saga is that an Egyptian lawyer has now filed a €1 Billion lawsuit against Ramos, citing the 'physical and psychological harm that Ramos gave Salah and the Egyptian people'. Could it get any more ridiculous... or funnier?!!

What next?? I can't wait!

Colin, nope. Not at all. Not sure where Ramos got him. Just thought it would be another excuse for Liverpool fans. :)

Given Klopp's earlier comments about big balls, perhaps they spent the week training with over-size footballs. I think an inquest into the size of the match day ball is overdue. The smaller ones are not to everyone's liking.

Not seen that Sandra, very funny.

Phil W this is why we are debating and discussing the RS defeat, it's pure comedy gold and the gift that keeps on giving. We have taken so much shit off those jokers all season, especially us who live in Liverpool so, when something like this comes along, then make hay while the sun shines. There will be plenty of blue discussion on TW as the summer progresses – fear not!

I'm happy as can be at the result. Ramos defended Salah well, refusing to let him drive towards the box on his left foot. Classic shepherding. I hope all the Premier League defenders take note.

As for Viagra Klopp, he's good for the hard part but just can't seem to make the moneyshot.

Phil,

I'm not sure where you are but, if you're in town since the semi-final, you wouldn't have come out with that statement.

We've had to put up with shit at our own Club for years, and no doubt it will continue to some extent for years to come. Can we not have a laugh at our neighbours' expense whilst we can?

If you're not happy with the thread, then I suggest you don't read or comment on it.

Classic, Sandra!

This just gets better and better. If somebody had approached me on Saturday morning and offered me a fraction of the fun we've had since Saturday night, I'd have snatched their arm off!

The petition had over 300,000 signatures this morning. They are wonderful, aren't they?

Pure class, best fans in the world.

I was just joking Ian. Unlike Phil, and one or two others, I'm loving this thread.

Thank you, Real Madrid, mil gracias!

Headlines in tomorrows RS Express (perm any one from a dozen nationals):

Outspoken Evertonian threatened to 'snatch arm off' in order to have fun! Exclusive. Sign our latest petition to stop this sort of offensive behaviour spreading throughout the beautiful game.

Four page special inside tomorrow's edition featuring former LFC players registering their disbelief as to how so many Evertonians could find anything remotely funny about LFC losing a major final. How the Bitter Blues have failed to support the heart-broken reds in their hour of need and we exclusively reveal how the Mayor of Liverpool has failed to release much needed funding for the vital counselling services required for the many traumatised reds fans.

Weekend Special Investigation: Have the Premier League done enough to help LFC become Champions? Are Sky/BT et al deliberately ignoring Klopp's team in their live broadcasts? and do advertisers pay enough attention to what we the press consider the best club side in the world.

In order to raise funds for the Reds fans to get the help they so desperately need we are starting a national fund. Please send all generous donations using #FixSoccer. Remember, readers,it's our game, we only care about you and not the number of clicks that we may receive.

Tommy Fairfoul was on Everton's books in the thirties; I don't think he ever made the first team. He was best man at my uncle's wedding in 1951 and was always up at Bellefield looking after one of the junior teams certainly in the sixties; his son Andrew used to contribute on this site a few years back. Tommy was an Everton man through and through.

I enjoyed the match on Saturday, the keeper will have a tough job to resuscitate his career after the howlers. I almost felt sorry for him.

Sorry Colin, I missed the underlying humour in your post.
:)

Unlike Mane who well and truly hit the post...

Phil Walling, do what I did, embrace it and enjoy it. It is like a bereavement to them. There are none more zealous than the late converts. I have followed the many links on here. Listened to the descriptions of how vile they are:

That is the best European Cup Final I have ever seen. The treatment of Karius by the players and supporters of Liverpool FC defines them. It defines them as the lowest of the low. Take a walk through their shit website with their sad, vomit inducing user names and feel good that we have a website where Evertonians put their name to their views, right, wrong or demented.

Finally, Ramos? Case and Gerrard are the two lowest forms of semi-articulate, half-witted mouth-dribbling scum who have ever pulled on boots. Allardyce has more class than Klopp and that is saying something.

I guess some will see me as fickle. All I can respond with is, I hope my views are not so entrenched to be unchangeable. When 200-plus Evertonians make a point, I take the view that it is time to reconsider my views.

The ThisIsAnfield website has plenty of posts saying the Ramos foul was nothing exceptional and recalling the days and hardness of Smith, Souness etc etc. If that's typical of the other RS websites, where do these 300,000 signatures come from?

Just had a horrible premonition of Pickford screwing up in the World Cup and some of these sending death threats. Let's hope he doesn't come back broken – or rather stronger for the experience.

I'm sure a lot of youse are the same as me, in the respect that you have RS mates who go the game and are, usually ok to talk to. A lot of them are still in Kiev, or on the way home at least.

I've had a rather enjoyable day in the various Kirkby hostelries giving the phoney, glory hunting counts that never go the game absolute hell.

Unfortunately for them, this shall carry on for the next three weeks. My mates who are what you might call proper reds shall be left alone.

Phil. After all the shit we have put up with off them all season, especially the last three weeks. I could talk about their comedy gold moments for years.

Mike 405, have to agree with you. The red fans I know who go the match are pretty descent, it's the ones who don't go are the Gobshites

Thank God Gareth bailed us out of an awful nightmare!

Truth is I joined this site so I could read and write about Everton, not RS.

Thanks for putting up with me all these years but I'm out of here!

See ya, Phil.

Phil, you were not required to read or write on this thread. There are plenty of other good posts and articles to enjoy. So, get off that high horse and continue to offer the much appreciated, cynical, realistic and jaundiced point of view.

As John Daley has shown, no-one is "out of here" — this is a life sentence without parole... Do you think we will finish 7th next season, by the way?

...and just when it seemed the partying was starting to wane...

;-)

I wonder how long you'll resist before the fingers start twitching over the keyboards again, Phil?

Just had a word with William Hill and they've said they can only offer me 1/100 that Phil Walling will be back on here within 48 hours.

Meanwhile, any news on that Open Top Bus Parade? It must be happening any minute now surely?

Oh come on, Phil, did you leave your sense of humour in your self-imposed tax exile?

Haha, hate them we might but they've just signed a 㿞 million midfielder...

I swear, this is true.

A good friend, and an Irish Red, just phoned me. He has it on "good authority" that, within the next 48 hours, Ramos will be arrested and charged with assault. Apparently, and it's all a bit vague, it is connected to Brexit.

This is a man who in every other walk of life is reasonable, engaging and, well, frankly, fucking sane.

Why not just read another thread, Phil. There's plenty of topics on ToffeeWeb that don't appeal to me. I can still keep my toys in the pram.

That's a cracker Andy!

Next will be an Egyptian Red issuing a worldwide Fatwa against Ramos.

Cummon Phil! Join in the fun!

That's all it is...

Hi Rick [#399], I checked Tommy Fairfoul's playing record and, following his ban in 1919, he retired from football. Because you knew him personally, I have no doubt that he had a non-playing role with Everton.

Rick, you may remember me telling you that my uncle Phil was a boyhood friend of your uncle, Nel Tarleton.

If you've nothing planned for July 15th [my 80th birthday,] I would love to share a drink at the Midland Hotel, opposite Central Station, at 12 noon.

John Mc (#368). Noted. It's in the diary.

For what it's worth, I am in my 62nd year and as blue as they come. I am proud of the history of Everton Football Club and what it stands for. Maybe I'm getting old but I'm with Phil Walling.

Some of the absolute nonsense I've read on here over the last few months has made me cringe and if it reflects the opinions of average Evertonians these days then It means I am becoming increasingly detached. The reaction to Liverpool's defeat the other night is unbelievable.

I've always railed against this accusation that we are a “small Club” but it occurs to me that, judging by TW, we have a good number of followers who reflect the charge.

I'll never give up on Everton, it's seriously in my DNA; however, I'm giving up on TW as it doesn't resonate with me anymore.

By the way, I am not so old school that I think that we should ever give credit to our cousins across the park. I despise the institution that that is LFC as much as the next Toffeeman. However, as with everything in life there is a right way and a wrong way. And an Everton way. Best to all and COYBB.

See ya, John.

To be honest, John, I respect your views and really we are doing things the Everton way. This is an Everton forum and if we can't take a bit of delight at their misfortune and subsequent instances of petitions, apportioning blame to Ramos and every other excuse under the sun as to why they lost, then you've really missed the point of healthy rivalries.

A lot of my friends are reds, quite a few made their way to Kiev and, while they have been quite unmerciless in their ridicule of Everton this season to me, I have maintained a dignified silence to them after Saturday. If taking a bit of joy in seeing them beat the other night makes me a small-club mentality then I will accept that moniker. If that's the case then I guess all pubs should accept it.

I shall never forget Emlyn Hughes humiliating blues in 77 who had gone to wish the reds well after their European cup triumph only to have him sing Liverpool are magic Everton are tragic. You don't get to have it all ways, are Liverpool a small club?

As I say, this is a forum for blues run by blues and if we can't have a bit of fun in private with other blues then God help us.

Paul @413 - Yes but can he play in goal?

I cannot believe some of the sanctimonious shite written on here. This is not Sunday school, or a Women's Institute meeting it's a football forum ffs where like-minded people talk about, wait for it, football!!

Some seem to consider it a heresy to talk about other teams and players rather than accept it as part of a normal debate. Are you so narrow-minded that in your school, home, workplace, pub whatever you can only talk EFC? If so then I feel for you. There's a big, bad world out there and it's full of people who are not Evertonians. Get a fucking grip.

This thread will be over soon and we can all go back to our mundane arguments about who is our worst player and why no manager on earth is probably good enough for us.

I'm still feeling a subtle wave of euphoria coursing through my body every time I think about the result. It's a counter-reaction to the utter dread and torture we'd have all had to endure, locally and in the press for a decade. Istanbul was the counter situation, a fluke which they have lived on for well over a decade.

I can't believe there's an Evertonian out there that doesn't get that and can't revel in the utter joy of their glorious defeat and subsequent laughable reactions. It's made my summer, my year, and will give me a warm glow for years!

Mike (#424).

Very eloquently put, mate, lol.

I went to Everton Two today to have a look around whilst taking my daughter shopping. I bought a tee shirt (can't resist) and in front of me was a bloke asking if they will start selling Real Madrid shirts and, if so, can he have "Karius 31" put on the back of his.

Ian Jones @385: That video clip has been all over Twitter today, with many different reds claiming it shows Ramos deliberately crashing into Karius (49th minute).

"Deliberately hurt him, right before they scored 1-0. Cheat!!"

The great thing about not being a deluded Red is that you will quickly notice why Ramos crashes into Karius: He's pushed hard in the back with two straight arms by Van Dijk, right in the 6-yard box during a Real Madrid attack. Arguably a penalty for Real, and certainly nothing intentional on Ramos's part.

Not that the Reds on Twitter care about such obvious facts which any person with two functioning eyes will observe...

I don't know if anyone remembers this but Emlyn Hughes did this and no-one said a word:

England v Poland at Wembley. The "clown", goalkeeper game. A superb England team, the last one I ever wanted to win. They utterly outclassed a Poland team who went on to finish third.

The game was lost and Hughes walked up to a Polish player, miles off the ball, and, utterly unprovoked, booted the Polish player on the knee. He did it because his sense of entitlement had been challenged.

It epitomizes what that appalling club and the bunch of lowlife legends they worship is about. King Kenny, Tommy Smith, Jimmy Case, Suarez, Gerrard etc. They are their legends.

Dave (#421), I was there also and will never forget that moment. I had also gone to the 3 League Cup final games and FA Cup semis at Maine Road. I lost any sort of respect for the RS that evening.

John Hughes – you claim that “The reaction to Liverpool's defeat the other night is unbelievable.” No it isn't, it is perfectly believable and perfectly normal behaviour.

It is the very essence of rivalry. Just as they ripped the piss out of me for having Sam Alladyce as our manager, so, I will rip the piss out of them for their failure on Saturday, the manner in which they failed and their reaction, petitions, etc since.

Like anything on ToffeeWeb, you can just choose not to engage and read something else if you don't like it. As for an “Everton Way”, that attitude is exactly why we remain a small-time club with no ambition.

John Hughes – I've been an Evertonian longer than you.

What is "The Everton Way"?

The "This is Anfield" website has Karius in fourth place on its Man of the Match rankings! Are the RS seeing the comedy side also or just feeling sorry for him? Seems to be some very differing views on there.

Shocking bitterness on here. I've got loads of RS mates who to a man are great, well-adjusted people. I was in town on Saturday, great atmosphere.

I think what I'm trying to say is that regardless of who you support, if you are a sort of purple-faced, vein-bulging, spittle-flicking nutter who thinks the world revolves around football to the exclusion of all the other beautiful shit in this world, then don't ask me to go for a pint with yer.

I spoke to one of my closest pals after the match. He was gutted but not the end of his world. At least he had the certain knowledge they would be back there soon. So who cares what they do, let's just hope we can sort our shit out.

I suggest we start a petition demanding that for the next five years, irrespective of where we finish in the league, that we are automatically entered into the Champions League, thus claiming the five years we lost in the 80s when we almost certainly would have qualified for the European cup.

I also suggest we start a petition demanding the decision to disallow Bryan Hamilton's goal in the 1977 FA Cup semi-final be overturned and we play Man Utd in a one-off game to determine the winners of the 1977 FA Cup.

I also suggest we start a petition demanding the 1984 League Cup is awarded to us, due to the fact a blatant handball was missed against Alan Hanson, which would have resulted in us being awarded a penalty, which we most certainly would have scored, and gone on to win the game.

I also suggest we start a petition demanding that pile of red shite is wiped off the face of the earth. This one will surely run into millions of signatures!

Does all this sound childish and petty? Too damn right it does. And that is exactly what their pathetic petitions are. I mean, seriously, what do they think UEFA are going to do, ban Ramos for life? Replay the game? The answers are NO and NO. Decisions go for and against you, mainly though, for them and against us.

Oh, and by the way, I think a petition to wipe them bastards off the face of the earth is a damn good idea!!! 😂😂😂

Colin @ 423 I'll second that, pal. Just football. Don't like it? Don't get involved. Don't post.

Oooo, look at me, everyone I'm so offended I'm not going to post anymore!

Hahaha... jog on, then. Narcissist attention-seekers.

I have twice celebrated Liverpool defeats which were the Wimbledon Cup final and theMichael Thomas inspired Arsenal win at Anfield.

I can understand full how my fellow blues would want to celebrate but I am either getting soft in my old age or to a greater extent, get more wound up with our own failings as a club to even bother thinking about what happens with those lot across the park.

We seriously need something miraculous to happen at Everton to allow us fans some enjoyment at supporting the club to put our focus back in place. We have always had hope but that has kicked us in the plums too often so now we need the kind of good management and luck that brought us success under Kendall.

Fingers crossed everyone and enjoy the World Cup.

Bitterness towards our red bretheren probably but it works both ways, how many RS flags in Kiev were about Everton FC, doing our club and Evertonians down?

This thread would have been quite a lot smaller if the RS had have taken defeat gracefully – but of course none of those who signed the petition, took to twitter to castigate and threaten their own goalkeeper are proper reds are they? Even though the numbers involved would suggest they represent a fair proportion of their fan base.

Mike (#433),

"...if you are a sort of purple-faced, vein-bulging, spittle-flicking nutter who thinks the world revolves around football to the exclusion of all the other beautiful shit in this world..." — I'd say that's just the sort of person who would be signing the nonsensical petition about Ramos.

Well said, Rob. Phil obviously does not live in the city and so doesn't understand.

Mike @ 433:

Do-what??!!

I very much doubt there isn't a city-raised Blue who doesn't know or have "loads of RS mates" (or at least, RS's they get on with).

Quite a number of us, I'm sure, even have parents, uncles, aunts, cousins, siblings our own children who are from the 'dark side' who "to a man (and woman – let's not go treading on toes here) are great, well-adjusted people."

I have no doubt "the town on Saturday, [had] a great atmosphere". It always did/does when one of the city teams are playing in a big game.

So why the presumptuous leap you make to interpret the totally expected (by me, at least) piss-taking and pure joy in the wake of Saturday evening's result and label fellow Blues in the negative light you attempt.

T'other side have fanned the deserved mocking they are getting (on an Everton fan forum, lest we forget) with such moves as an online petition to make a human sacrifice of Ramos in the erupting Hawaiin volcano (or whatever it is the other lot what doing to him).

Now like you, I don't go into gratuitous insult mode at any reference to the 'bours, but unlike you I don't see "Shocking bitterness" on TW, or people being "purple-faced, vein-bulging, spittle-flicking nutter who thinks the world revolves around football to the exclusion of all the other beautiful shit in this world."

So don't worry, Mike. Given the contemptible view you hold of fellow Blues, I doubt you will be getting many invites to join any them for a pint any time soon.

Rob (#434), that one had me laughing out loud.

Dennis at 4-3-8 (my favoured formation by the way) — none of my RS mates would be anywhere near that.

Jokers to the left, jokers to the right, there's loons on all sides...

Jay, just saying there is banter and then there is unhinged. I prefer to not care about what they're doing and hope we focus on sorting our own shit out.

That's a contemptible few of some blues only; give me George McKanes cosmic vibes instead, or John Daley's comic diatribes.

So well said, Jay, and fuck off, sanctimonious Mike.

"I was in town on Saturday, great atmosphere."

You were obviously nowhere near Bold St with the reds who can spell Anfield and the day trippers (3 hrs to kick off) terrifying locals.

Concert Square no-go area, red flares, Mo Salah cut-outs, Simon and pals from Nuneaton singing "39 Italians" Knobhead behavior – game in the bag, yeaa...right!

I'm made up they lost – like every Blue should be.

So we won't be having a pint soon then, Phil, no problem with that. I'm getting the tunes on:

https://youtu.be/CQwcqwHvrus

Sympathy is more disorienting:

https://youtu.be/u92E-e0t5HY

And they're STILL convinced they're everybody's favourite 2nd team... strange, those last 3 words came up on predictive txt without me doing anything... I wonder why?

Poor losers and, even poorer winners, couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.

RS – you always get exactly what it says on the tin, 'twas ever thus.

Maybe there should be 2 sites, toffeebile and toffeezen. I'll knit everyone's breakfast on the zen site and we'll suspend all sense for the Live Forum on match days as usual.

Mike @ 443.

"...there is banter and then there is unhinged. I prefer to not care about what they're doing and hope we focus on sorting our own shit out."

With you all the way, Mike, on the need to sort out our own shit. I (and others) have already said as much in this very thread.

As to your first clause, are you paying attention, Mike?

Have you seen and read the claims and petitions our loveable 'bours are making?

Remind me again – based on this thread alone – which side is engaging in (inevitable!) mocking banter and which side is being 'unhinged'?

Jay, maybe there should be an unhinged Mexican stand-off between the two clubs, no doubt they'd win that effin derby as well.

Think I'm just probably expecting more from my fellow Blues comedy-wise.

Mike, I like my humour to be cerebral and implied, rather than raucous and rancid like Bernard Manning, or slapstick and custard pie like Benny Hill.

Read the thread back. There has been some gud 'uns.

You've certainly shifted your focus since your opening post calling out the 'bitterness' on TW and painting of Blues as "purple-faced, vein-bulging, spittle-flicking nutters."

Your still worth a pint so far Jay. Look back at #433 and the “regardless of who you support” bit.

I don't think it is bitterness among blues. More the exquisite pleasure of watching their deluded conceit shrivel like a deflating ballon. Them finishing 4th without a trophy gives us a target. Them winning the Champions League and being able to attract top players puts them out of reach.

I was happier when they bombed winning the league. At the end of the day, it's hard to be smug — you have to make the finals of things to fuck the final up, after all.

Ah... the Michael Thomas goal.

I ended up in A&E. Two broken fingers as I twatted the ceiling and a sprained ankle when I came down...

I meet a lot of Man Utd supporters who see ManCity's defeat at Wigan as the highlight of their season. Are they a small club?

I saw thousands of RS celebrate when Man Utd lost to Barca in the Final. Are they a small club?

I see clips of Real Madrid players taking time out of their celebrations to gloat to the Catalans. Are they a small club?

I see numerous Celtic videos dedicated solely to the demise of Rangers. Are they a small club?

Fuck me, I still hear Spurs fans singing "Nayim from the halfway line" about 15 years after it happened.

This is rivalry — it happens the world over. We have more reason to celebrate Saturday's comedy of errors than any of the above.

Please spare us the sanctimonious lectures. When those fuckers are riding high, they will always remember to take time out to put the boot into our club. Are we are supposed to overlook that? Be permanent victims? Most of us would be here all night if we tried to list reasons we have to despise what they represent...

Sorry, this is payback time and, until we get our own act together, seeing thousands and thousands of smug kopites getting a taste of their own will continue to fill Everton hearts with justifiable satisfaction.

This is a slow news week for Evertonians, we are in Limbo until Silva is announced and we can start talking about future signings, fixtures, ambitions.

In the meantime, The Red Shite have kindly provided us with the mother of all distractions.

I still always feel like singing the blues,
When Everton don't play and Liverpool lose

I could not have put it better myself, Darren.

Most Blues will know where they were for that Michael Thomas goal.

Luckily, there were more of us than them as we celebrated at the Holy Name Club in Fazakerley.

Darren @455 nails it. Spot on.

Øystein at 427.

Just seen the footage again on You Tube. Well spotted re the push on Ramos just before he collides/elbows Karius! I stand corrected. :)

When you feed at the table of despair, you take your crumbs of comfort when you can. Lest you starve.

The worst thing about the RS getting wellied is having to suck an industrial strength lemon for days afterwards to stop your face sticking in a permanent smile, with "smug" seeping out of ever orifice.

John Keating (#431),

The Everton Way? Well, I've always thought that Evertonians on the whole conduct themselves with more than a modicum of class in all matters football, unlike Liverpool supporters for example. That's the irony for me. I'm as pleased as the next Blue that they copped it big time in Kiev.

Like most Blues, I was extremely pissed off with the Sam Allardyce fiasco. However, in my opinion there are better ways to express these emotions than some of the drivel and bile written on here at various times recently. And it seems to me that, if you challenge this attitude one is labelled ‘sanctimonious', ' narcissistic ‘ or attention-seeking!

And by the way, I wasn't claiming any sort of respect for the time I've supported Everton, merely attempting to put some perspective to my post. Congratulations on supporting Everton longer than me!

Nice one, Darren (#455),

I also injured a couple of fingers hitting the ceiling courtesy of that Michael Thomas goal. What a Friday night that was!!

Spot on, Darren. I watched that wonderful Friday night with an Arsenal mate where we lived in North London. Straight to the pub in my Everton top. Never had to buy a drink!

Talk of Liverpool city centre, and particularly Concert Square, being ram packed with RS on Saturday is all very well and good. I'm sure the city centre in Madrid was the same, and I'm sure it's something we would do.

The point I am trying to make, though, is how many of those RS were "out-of-towners"? There is a well-known contributor to this forum who lives up in Cumbria, whose RS brother travelled down to Liverpool to watch the match, and I doubt very much he stayed in his hotel room or friend's house, or wherever he stayed, to watch it.

I bet there were a few thousand more just like him.

The "23 years without a trophy" jibe is starting to wear a bit thin now, isn't it? 1 league cup win in 13 years against a Championship side (on penalties) is hardly anything to gloat about. And all that after spending zillions while we were borassic for the majority of that time.

Silly, silly people thought they just had to turn up and it was game over. I'd love to know where they're getting off with the line "We were outstanding for half-an-hour until he went off." Not the game I've watched a couple of times since...

Best part of the night, apart from their players crying at the end, was when Henderson was shouting at the ref after Karius gave Benzema the goal – his face had bewilderment written all over it. Why, Benzema was a yard away and just stuck his foot out!

Oh the joy. I haven't stopped smiling since 9:40 on Saturday night and don't think I'm going to... Vile race of people and couldn't have happened to a better team.

Just as an aside, what difference has Van Dijk made to that side? Did he come out of the changing room on Saturday? Ah well...

33 years today since Heysel and no mention from you know who.

Outraged at everything, ashamed of nothing.

Maybe time for this thread to be closed down now Lyndon. Time to move on?

John Keating @ 431,

I really hope someone answers that, mate. I have been asking for years and years as to what exactly this fabled 'Everton Way' actually is?

You hear the phrase all the time, but nobody can tell me what it is....

Without doubt, one of my favourite threads of all time.

I'm sorry for repeating what has been said previously, but if you can't enjoy what happened to our loveable neighbours then you don't live in the city.

The atrocious flags on cars and houses were bad enough. Listening to people who never usually watch football suddenly becoming expert pundits was bad enough. The worst thing of all, though, was the constant, horrendous, blanket coverage by the local media. There was no hiding place on ANY station and it genuinely made me nauseous to listen to.

However, when I put Radio City Talk on this morning to listen to the debrief, surprise surprise, they were more interested in playing music (it is a talk station usually) and discussing Raheem Sterling's new tattoo.

For those coming on here berating us for enjoying the hilarious failure of our neighbours, have you stopped to think that the only reason we're enjoying it so much is because of their endless arrogance and self-righteous bleating?

If they weren't such wankers, we wouldn't be laughing so loud.

No worries, Mike – be still my broken heart!

Hope you enjoy your first day back at work and take all the downbeat reds for a commiserative lunchtime drink!

Dave Pritchard (#470) – why ask for the thread to be closed down when it clearly has some legs left in it? If you're fed up with it yourself, just stop reading it.

Interesting, I enjoyed theit defeat. But let's look at the bigger picture:

Liverpool have signed already Fabinho and Keita and Fekir looks to be on his way. About 𧵘 million spent, on 3 top class, young players who have been courted by the best teams in Europe.

While at Everton we laugh at their loss and discuss whether Ashley Williams, Bolasie or Rooney should remain.

My god... being a blue is depressing.

They would have battered us for a full calendar year if they'd won the Mickey Mouse pot, so this thread should stay open until next season's final.

Fran (#477),

If they spend 𧵘 million someone is on the way out. Trust me.

Phil Bellis,

What a beautiful and noble idea.

Maybe we should all take an RS colleague, acquaintance, or eighbour for a commiserative drink... Bitters all round?

So there's talk of Fekir from Lyon signing for the RS. I remember him playing for Lyon against us in the Europa League. In both legs, he threw himself to the ground quicker than a prozzie dropping her knickers. I'm sure in the second leg he fell over as he walked off after being substituted.

In my opinion, he didn't stand out in either leg although I remember him scoring in both legs.

Obviously I've not seen enough of him to form any kind of opinion, but whatever. He will be a perfect match for the Red Shite what with their reputation down the years for players diving.

Rob, Fekir is a very good player but does not fit to any of their strengths ie attacking quickly en masse. He's much more an Arsenal type player. He definitely won't improve them.

I wouldn't be so sure, Andrew. Does he not have a touch of Coutinho about him? I've only seen him against us, and a few highlights but he looks a terrific playmaker. Sure he's perfect for Arsenal, but if Klopp can do with him, what he did with Coutinho, then he can definitely improve them.

Cheers, Andrew. As I said, I've literally only seen him play twice so can't really from any kind of opinion as to his strengths, and hopefully, weaknesses.

Steve, I don't think he's as good as Coutinho nor quick enough either. Coutinho may not be Salah or Mane in a counter attacking team but he's no slouch either.

How's that petition coming on? Has Ramos had his collar felt by Uefa yet? Snort...

Personally, I found their ''Steaua Bucharest European Cup Winners 1986'' banner the one that finally did it for me.

Jimmy, over 400k signatures so far. These RS fans are turning into the laughing stock of world football.

Keep em coming, lads. Show world football how many knobheads you've really got. 😂😂

Brian Denton – I completely and wholeheartedly agree and was going to make a similar comment!

We are expected to laugh that off as banter, whilst they appear to miss the irony of why we couldn't compete in the competition that year.

I have two brothers and two nephews yet to return from Kiev as they had to book an extended stay out there and have a tortuous route home. Whilst I am obviously delighted that they are safe and sound, the thought of them spending the weekend miserably moping around and staring out of their hotel windows before setting off for home via Germany fills me with absolute pleasure. I'm chuckling to myself as I type. 'Schadenfreude' I think it's called. Or 'Shite-enfreude'!

Here is the headline and story from today's red echo, commemorating and remembering that fateful day 33 years ago today...

YEP... SWEET FA.

Any comments from the club, Rob?

Rob

A Liverpool supporter friend sent me these links. Seems Heysel isn't going unnoticed. Interesting read

Liverpool's own site

Link

Liverpool Echo's

Link

Apologies then Ian. I couldn't find anything when I looked.

Ian - the red Echo link is three years old!

Good spot, Martin. Shame on your friend, Ian.

Hi Martin

Thanks for pointing out my error, my apologies re the Echo Link. Seems I didn't check the date!

Hi Rob

Apologies to you too... I think it will be a genuine error by my mate. He's usually meticulous.

Ian/Rob - no problem.

At least their Club has acknowledged the Heysel anniversary (if not it's fans' central role) even if some of their fans still revel in what they did, eg, the 39 Italians song, the Steau Bucharest banner, etc.

Rob, I can confirm loads of Cumbrians went down for the game. Next door neighbour took a load of stick off me Sunday when he got home. He saw my brother, who is strangely incommunicado at the moment, in the town centre.

I'm away for the weekend with rs brother, and his rs brother in law. I will just smugly smile all weekend but not mention the game. Did that with them in Tenerife after the Jags derby equaliser. That really does their head in!!

Great summer folks, hope springs eternal for a great new season.

So Saleh is not holding a grudge on the tackle — does anyone else think he was soft going off? I mean, look at that tackle and injury in a game of soccer to the injury Donnacha Ryan got in Rugby's European Cup final. Injured shoulder and played on in the 2nd row!! I'd love to think an Everton player would have played on... but nah, probably not!

John – be fair. The injury is more serious than you make out... I've heard this morning that he's been told he'll never ride a camel again. :-)

https://twitter.com/1878Scotto/status/1001542672266465280?s=19

Interesting.

I need some blue loving to smack me round the chops! Haha!

Is anyone else getting sick to the back teeth of constantly hearing about the Red Shite and their Champions League defeat?

Calls for the game to be replayed, concussion, cheating, UFC armlocks, petitions... WTF!!!

You got beat – accept it and fuck off. It's embarrassing,

Ian, far from getting "sick to the back teeth", I for one am absolutely loving the fact that their loss is still in the headlines.

The more ridiculous claims and complaints that are made, either by them or on their behalf, the more ridiculous they look.

Enjoy it, mate, for what it is – a circus!

Brian - good point mate... 😁

Ian,

I, for one, am just loving it and just won't get bored if it carries on all summer.

I was in Nice when the match was on and took great delight in asking people with RS gear on if they knew how Liverpool had got on.

The perfect end to a shite season and not a RS banner, or car flag, to be seen when I got back!

"What? They lost? Oh, bad luck. The goalie's a clown? He cocked up twice? Really? Oh, bad luck. Never mind."