World Cup — Day 10

C'mon, Bobby Brown Shoes – lead 'em to victory!

2-1 already... lively game!

So glad we got rid of that lazy carthorse Lukaku, eh-what?

The shot scuffer has just gone joint top scorer at the World Cup.

He's no good, that Lukaku, can't do anything except score goals. Now we don't want strikers doing that kind of thing!

Lukaku didn't want to play for us. End of chat.

No, not end of chat. De Gea didn't want to stay at Man Utd a couple years ago, wanting to go to Real. He's still at United. Mahrez has wanted to leave Leicester City since they won the Premier League, but they've kept him for the past two seasons.

We should have done everything we could to build a team around him, but we didn't. But plenty on here would actually claim we'd be better without him. And that's why supporters don't get to make decisions.

Gonna be interesting next week. Few players could have caused more division on this site than John Stones and Romelu Lukaku.

Stones was regarded as a future megastar by some and a clanger merchant who would not learn, by others. Lukaku was regarded by some as a lazy bastard who couldn't control a ball and by others as a world class goal machine.

Both men have gone and, as John @6 points out, they went because they wanted to... but it'll be fascinating to see who comes out on top on the biggest stage of all.

Will people please get it into their heads, that Lukaku was NEVER, EVER, EVER going to spend his entire career at Everton. He made it clear from the start, that we were a stepping-stone.

As a friend of mine put it: 'He was leaving, from the day he arrived.' Nothing, repeat nothing, would have kept him here.

So, please don't suggest, that the Club did not do enough; those who think that, are, I'm afraid, shockingly naive.

Nicholas,

It's shockingly naive to not understand the difference between him staying here his entire career and selling him at the first asking after only a few seasons. Nobody has said anything about keeping him here for his entire career. But a lot more could have been done to keep him for 1 or 2 more seasons and see where it goes from there. At the very least they could have gotten a much better transfer fee.

There's a bit of a difference between arguably the biggest club in the world keeping De Gea and mid-table Everton holding onto Lukaku, whether you're prepared to admit it or not.

Brian,

Yet you ignored Leicester keeping Mahrez. Well done.

You have a chance of keeping players if you show some ambition. Sadly Everton have never shown any of that in 30 years and will continue feeding of scraps from bigger clubs.

That wasn't sarcasm actually. It was simply pointing out that you ignored the other example I provided to try to make a point that only the likes of Man Utd can keep a player. No need for the name calling either.

David (#15) – right on both counts.

It's really about contract length. That's what saved Chelsea a heap on Barkley.

If we didn't keep Wayne Rooney who cost us nothing, why would the club keep Lukaku who cost plenty?

Belgians looked great, that's how you dismantle a minnow. Some very Everton-like defending in there too, I noted. Martinez will need to get lucky to win the whole thing playing like that.

Sadly, many players don't regard Everton as a big club anymore and the reasoning is not hard to see. With a succession of poor managers and at board level too, we have seen this great club reduced to a permanent also-ran.

Arguably it started with Moyes and the departure of Rooney followed by a succession of short-term signings of players way past their best.

They somehow managed to get one or two gems like Cahill, Coleman and Arteta then Lukaku, a real target man who was let go in favour of better players like Niasse and Tosun. (Ha! Ha!)

With the reputation tarnished and funds in short supply, they have been made to sell without being able to attract the big-name players demanding the big wages, such as Man Utd and Liverpool.

If the new manager and Moshiri's money are going to change anything, it won't happen overnight.

David, you cite two players, hardly decent examples, De Gea at United the biggest club in England barely a hardship with a minimum ceiling of where he could go. Was he mouthing off to leave United? Nah. Leicester, well they have screwed Maharez (twice) and he's barely played well since. Good effort there, driving the price down with each passing day.

Lukaku's personal ambitions and desire far outstripped Everton. The lad could finish but didn't want to be at Everton a minute more, it's utterly pointless keeping someone who wants to move on.

You're looking backwards not forwards. Lukaku and Stones are in the rear view mirror. The mistake was not getting a replacement before we sold him, allowing you poor sops to fixate on a player who never wanted to stay. 🙄

I agree with John, he'd already stayed one season longer than he wanted to and, having come 11th that year, it would have been impossible to convince him we were heading in the right direction.

You can maybe keep a player desperate to leave for an extra season (maybe two at a push) but after that, the situation begins to damage everyone.

I agree with David that we might have held out for a greater fee and that in general it feels we still let go of our best players too easily. But most teams lose star players. Especially teams not in the Chapions League. Leicester City may have forced Mahrez to stay but they lost Kante and Drinkwater.

Mahrez has come back into the team both times and done very well, always one of their best players. And there is zero evidence that they've decreased his value as it is believed Man City will buy him this summer for in excess of 㿷 million.

John (#19) 2 Leicester screwed Mahrez? He was and is under contract to them and one assumes on a salary of "king's ransom" proportions!

As for Lukaku being desperate to leave, wasn't he 99.9% certain to be signing a new contract until a late change of mind?

Martin,

As for Lukaku being desperate to leave, wasn't he 99.9% certain to be signing a new contract until a late change of mind?

If you believe that, there's a bridge I'd like to sell you in Brooklyn.

From the well respected Alan Myers

‘Seen a lot about Lukaku today, he was leaving Everton no matter what, sometimes you can't keep hold of a player, and that goes for all Clubs, it's a fact of modern football.'

Thanks, Al.

Lukaku and Stones are water under the bridge. I like to see them succeeding knowing that they will never play for us again.

What about Sweden getting the shaft from the officials? Jerry should have been down to 10 men and the Swedes should have had a pen in the first half. Then they blew it with a big mistake to fire a tame shot at the Jerry keeper with 90 seconds left.

I don't see an obviously strong team this time. Maybe we have a better chance than usual.

From the better respected Paul the Esk in response to Alan Myers:

“He was very close to re-signing a new contract with the approval of Raiola. The contract was on the table & agreed as per the discussions between Raiola & Moshiri in the summer of 2016. I think the disastrous partnership of RK/SW was evident & Raiola/Lukaku changed their minds”

And:

“The big question is why we ever conceded when contractually and perhaps financially we never needed to.”

If a top player decides he wants to leave, then he usually does, as Man Utd and Liverpool have certainly discovered over the last few seasons.

Bill,

The issue isn't whether the player leaves. It's when they leave while they are under contract and how the club can dictate that, as opposed to how we just sold without any fight whatsoever.

This year the Germans have been done on the break by both the teams they played, but remain for luck the international equivalent of the rs.

Belgium haven't played anybody yet, the generic term of defensively Martinez-esque applies here. But if Hazard can keep Lukaku wound up, he might start showing in the big games too...having not watched him hardly at all for a year, his link-up play and touch seems to have improved, admittedly from a low base line.

England will find a way, as always, to fuck it up. I don't see anybody putting 7 on Brazil this time and wouldn't bet against them.

Still not sold on the VAR as it is, I know it's only a test and, hopefully, not the finished product yet.

David Barks,

Appreciate all your points.

If we sold Rom without any fight and Moshri had the means to sign Lukaku, then why? Why did he leave?

Because Lukaku, in and around February that year, decided it was time for him to go.

He started putting in half-assed efforts and made it clear, due to our exit in Europe and a completely shit Premier League season, that he wanted more success. Success we frankly (in his mind) couldn't offer him.

I think he gave up on the Martinez and Lukaku was a factor – not the whole but a part – of why Roberto had to go.

He was off. He was gone from Everton in his head. Contract or not. Moshri bucks be damned. Contracts be damned.

He was going to find a way out come hell or high water.

That's my take, with apologies to Paul the Esk. Just opinion based on my own eyes and hunches. No facts.

Mahrez was given permission to leave Leicester two years ago - even though he hadn't long signed a 4-year contract.

I remember lots of news stories about him leaving the Algerian camp, They also gave him permission to go to London and finalise the deal. The transfer was reported to have fallen through over the terms.

Last season, Leicester did exactly what Everton did when Jose repeatedly came back for John Stones. Let's not pretend otherwise; they had already let their engine room (Kante and Drinkwater) leave for Chelsea and they desperately needed to stop their rapid decline.

Mahrez most definitely decreased in value. His refusal to come into training would have scared many a would-be suitor away.

To be honest, the World Cup doesn't really start for me until the knockout stages... but it really was made better courtesy of Real Madrid.

I'm looking forward to the next few weeks.

Jamie (#23) – I'll be in New York from 12th Sept (staying on Lexington Avenue) for three nights – any chance of a viewing on that bridge before I decide whether or not to make an offer? How desperate are you to sell? 99.9%?

Seriously, I've read David's post (#26) in which he references The Esk and your own response (#30). I'm sure you'll forgive me for sticking with my own and The Esk's opinions rather than go with your own take on the matter. Obviously we have different views but I hope that David's post (#26) at least addresses your inference that mine is born out of naïvety – at my age, and with my vast experience of watching Everton, I can assure you that I am no longer naïve! Perhaps living locally and therefore "closer to the action" results in a different take on things? Anyway, all the best to you and your lads – keep supporting the (not so!) mighty Blues!

ps: I think we're moving on to Long Island on 15 September but on the off-chance I'm still in the Big Apple for the West Ham game, can you recommend a good bar for watching it?

Martin (#33).

Do you need anyone to carry your bags?

Martin, the NYC gang have moved from Dehenney's to Turnmill's:

Link

Brian – sorry mate, got the good lady to do that!

John – many thanks for the link. Even if we've moved on by 15th I'll try to get in Turnmills for a few beers if I'm in the vicinity. Will try to remember to bring a few bits of memorabilia for the bar!

Sorry, John – I should have looked at the link before posting! Looks like Turnmill's is pretty close to where we're staying so I'll definitely be in there on at least one afternoon or evening. Would be great to see some fellow Blues from NYC!