Passionless derby ends in stalemate

By Michael Kenrick 07/04/2018 281comments  |  Jump to last

Idrrissa Gueye came off the bench after recovering from a hamstring injury
Everton 0 - 0 Liverpool

Everton were hoping to register their first derby win in eight years, with a team that featured Tom Davies but also Rooney and Schneiderlin looking to reprise their ineffective roles in midfield.

No place for Mo Saleh in the Liverpool side that featured five changes from their Champions League squad that humbled Manchester City in midweek.

Things kicked off in monsoon conditions after applause for Ray Wilkins, Everton defending the Gwladys Street end, with the obligatory hoof upfield and they kept it in the Liverpool half for the first 90 seconds.

Schneiderlin forced a turnover and Rooney, playing forward in support of Tosun, fired off a shot that was blocked. Better possession saw Baines swing in a cross, with Walcott and Bolasie switching sides. Liverpool's first attack saw Wijnaldum fire well over from distance.

Everton sat off the Reds, letting Milner set up Solanke for a header that went wide. At the other end, Tosun also fired one high and wide. Solanke was gifted an easy chance to score after the ball came to him off Coleman but Pickford saved from close range as Liverpool ramped up the intensity and Everton just backed off.

Klavan miscued a Walcott header and that gave Everton their first corner, swung in well enough by Rooney. Everton pressed but the moves ended with giveaway balls from Davies and then Rooney. Bolasie did well to create space and really test Karius with a superb curling shot that he saw all the way and finger-tipped around the post.

Baines, for the third time, demonstrated his new lofted clearance that goes high in the air but only a few yards forward, in classic up-and-under style. Milner got in a good shot from wide that Pickford had to parry.

At times, the pressing from Everton was half-hearted at best, allowing Liverpool to pass the ball around. When they did win the ball, they gave it back far too soon or gave away daft free-kicks. From one, Van Dijk tested Pickford.

Rooney had lots of space for a good ball forward but it bounced harmlessly through to Karius. At the other end, some shocking possession play by Everton out of defence ended with an awful giveaway by Bolasie, who then backed out of a 50/50 challenge for a lose ball, much to the crowd's annoyance.

Everton had not conceded but the performance in the first half had not been anything to write home about, a performance littered with mistakes, clumsy tackles not punished with any cards, and far too much terribly scrappy unstructured play.

After a slow start to the second half, Liverpool circled the Everton penalty area menacingly without being challenged until they passed it behind for a goal-kick. Bolasie dwelt on the ball, was easily dispossessed, and was screamed at by the furious Everton crowd, but the change by Allardyce was Gueye for Rooney, who was very pissed-off by this; he has not scored now in 13 games.

Coleman got fired up after Ings called him a diver, and that at least roused the crowd. It was Calvert-Lewin who would replace the hapless Bolasie and bring a little more energy to Everton's left side.

After a maddening Davies giveaway in attack, Liverpool advanced and Oxlade-Chamberlain lashed a shot just over the Everton bar.

Everton finally approached the Liverpool goal, Calvert-Lewin's shot deflected. Baines then got smartly behind the Liverpool defence and lashed in a cross but it was just inches ahead of Tosun's outstretched boot. At least they were finally playing something approaching football. That was when Baningime replaced Davies, hopefully not deflating the fleetingly rare injection of passion and desire from the Blues.

Tosun worked his way forward and passed behind Walcott who slipped over in comic style trying to halt his forward momentum on the saturated turf. A promising corner ended when Walcott was flagged offside.

Walcott took the initiative to advance late on, and then crossed superbly for Tosun, who headed wide when it seemed easier to score, and Colemnan almost connect with his misdirected header. Another fine move saw Coleman drive into the area and the ball came to Calvert-Lewin who had a fantastic opportunity to win the game for Everton but hopelessly sidefooted this glorious chance for victory across the goal.

Everton had a final chance from a Clyne foul but the Everton players were offside from the free-kick and the 231st derby fizzled out as a poor goalless and largely passionless affair to be erased immediately from memory.

Everton: Pickford; Coleman, Jagielka, Keane, Baines; Rooney (57' Gueye), Schneiderlin, Davies (79' Baningime); Walcott, Tosun, Bolasie (61' Calvert-Lewin).
Subs not Used: Robles, Martina, Niasse, Funes Mori.

Liverpool: Karius; Clyne, Lovren, Van Dijk, Klavan; Milner (68' Oxlade-Chamberlain), Henderson, Wijnaldum; Ings (89' Alexander-Arnold), Solanke, Mane (74' Firmino).
Subs not Used: Mignolet, Moreno, Masterson, Jones.

Referee: Michael Oliver

Attendance: 39,220

Reader Comments (281)

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Derek McMonagle
1 Posted 07/04/2018 at 11:34:45
Rooney and Schneiderlin again!
Clive Rogers
2 Posted 07/04/2018 at 11:34:57
Rooney and Schneiderlin AGAIN, after last week.

Fat Sam has to go!!!

Dave Abrahams
3 Posted 07/04/2018 at 11:35:27
Can't run and won't run are both in the team again, taking the piss again!!!
Steve Bingham
4 Posted 07/04/2018 at 11:39:37
Big Sam yet again sticks two fingers up to us all by selecting Schneiderlin. When are we going to finally acknowledge that he is obviously the boss and knows best?
Derek Knox
5 Posted 07/04/2018 at 11:41:48
Just seen the team and worst fears are realised, what does this idiot think about when selecting a team?

There is little to no chance of Klippety krapping in die Lederhosen with Schneiderlin anywhere near the team.

Danny Baily
6 Posted 07/04/2018 at 11:43:37
The ghost of Rooney and the talented Mr Schniderlein in the middle. Game over then.
PG Malcolm
7 Posted 07/04/2018 at 11:52:59
Any streams other than the ones about to come out of my eyes...
John G Davies
8 Posted 07/04/2018 at 11:59:10
Note to all ToffeeWebbers.

Please don't rip the back off Tom Davies after today's game. He is going to have to do more running today than is fair to any player to cover the pedestrian pace alongside him. A young kid given the responsibility to cover two senior pros.

One thing certain. Tom won't hide, he won't give up and he will be an option for anyone looking for a pass. I wish we had five more with his passion playing today.

Michael Lynch
9 Posted 07/04/2018 at 11:59:56
Only the five changes from Klopp then. Ings and Solanko to score 2 each in a 0-5 drubbing. Rooney and Schneiderlin over-run, at least one of them red carded in the first half.

And that's my best-case scenario - wait til you you hear what I REALLY think will happen...

Charles Brewer
10 Posted 07/04/2018 at 12:10:41
Interesting tactic by Allardyce. The bench is more impressive than the starting 11 (okay, Martina is there but we can't have everything).

Frankly, I think I'd rather see Williams out there than most of this lot. He may be slow, incompetent and useless, but at least he appears to be committed (or is that "ought to be committed") and plays with passion.

Charles Brewer
11 Posted 07/04/2018 at 12:11:43
At least until he gets sent off.
Eddie Dunn
12 Posted 07/04/2018 at 12:16:06
They have the legs and we don't. A defensive selection which will fail and we will be chasing the game again. This is damage limitation.
Bobby Mallon
13 Posted 07/04/2018 at 12:19:11
I feel so sorry for the Everton fans today.
Alan J Thompson
14 Posted 07/04/2018 at 12:21:31
Unbelievable, does he actually assess each player's performance or just shuffle cards with players names. And we wonder why the "kids" aren't good enough.
Christy Ring
15 Posted 07/04/2018 at 12:23:41
Pissed off, Sam too thick to change things, overrun against City in midfield, Rooney hasn't the legs for midfield, can he not see that and Schneiderlin? If Gueye is fit enough for the bench, then why not start him.
The sooner the season over and Sam gone the better.
Chris Gould
16 Posted 07/04/2018 at 12:30:32
With 5 changes, that is a bang-average Liverpool team. Their only pace comes from Mane.

Such a shame we're so shite as we have a real chance today.

Hugh Jenkins
17 Posted 07/04/2018 at 12:36:46
John G (8) – Noted and agreed.

My fear is, because of his commitment and passion, young Davies is the prime candidate for an early red card, as he manfully strives to cover the gaping holes left by the other two in midfield – who are regrettably inept because one is past it and the other couldn't care less!

Christy Ring
18 Posted 07/04/2018 at 12:56:50
What would I give to have McCarthy in midfield, snapping at their heels?

No pressing whatsoever.

Colin Hughes
19 Posted 07/04/2018 at 13:10:59
We are far too negative and always show LFC too much respect in this fixture.
Christy Ring
20 Posted 07/04/2018 at 13:16:49
Rooney and Bolasie absolutely shocking, we're playing with 9 men, has to change it for 2nd half. Dreadful against a weak redshite team.
Steve Bingham
21 Posted 07/04/2018 at 13:17:03
Chasing shadows. We don't even look like the home team.
Jermaine Jennings
22 Posted 07/04/2018 at 13:18:36
Schneiderlin has been one of the better players in this first half – at least he is composed and positive when he gets the ball. Rooney though has been woeful and Bolasie clearly should not be in the team as he needs a full preseason after such a long lay-off.

I'm baffled as to why Vlasic and Klaassen are not in the squad...

Tommy Coleman
23 Posted 07/04/2018 at 13:18:52
Press the Red Shite higher up the pitch and we'll have these!
Ernie Baywood
24 Posted 07/04/2018 at 13:21:26
If Bolasie is going to play as a second left back then we might as well sub Martina in.

Can't understand why the second they got the ball we dropped right back to our penalty area. It's not even as if that lot are doing anything to make us look this bad. We're just doing it to ourselves. Fairly pathetic so far.

We look like we're happy not to be getting a hammering. And they look happy not to really be in a game given the bigger matches either side of this.

John G Davies
25 Posted 07/04/2018 at 13:23:46
Khasi tactics from the manager. Playing the full-backs narrow means Walcott and Bolasie are more concerned with defensive duty rather than getting forward. Bolasie has been last man a few times in the first half.
Ernie Baywood
26 Posted 07/04/2018 at 13:26:31
And to make it worse, they've got a centre-back with not much gametime playing at left-back. On a wet day. Against one of the fastest players in the league in Walcott.

Yet we still don't think it's worth playing a bit higher up the pitch and having a go?

Jay Wood

27 Posted 07/04/2018 at 13:29:21
This is a Mersey Derby game, right? The Premier League fixture with the most red cards.

Michael Oliver must be loving this. Dead easy to ref.

As has been the case all season, you could draw a 10-m radius around the opposition player on the ball and no Everton player would be within it. That can also be applied in most cases to the opposition player receiving the ball.

We are simply not engaging. The one and only time we pressed the ball high up was Tom Davies towards the break. And what resulted? The defender coughed up the ball and – fleetingly – an opportunity opened.

They have a makeshift left-back who has not been tested at all. Instead, Walcott and Bolasie played 'swapsies' changing flanks.

Our own left flank has been under constant pressure and it is easy to see why. Ings is drawing Baines inside, giving Clyne the opening to attack from wide. Bolasie has spent more time in our half than theirs – and has been more threatening to us than them!

If I can see that, why can't the seasoned professionals on the pitch see and address it, or the coaching staff on the sidelines make a tactical switch and transmit what they want done about it?

This is so meek.

Ashley Roberts
28 Posted 07/04/2018 at 13:31:02
We are getting totally overrun in midfield again by Liverpool reserves. Dreadful and embarrassing. Rooney and Schneiderlin are chasing shadows again. If this is all we can offer in midfield, it is a total disgrace.

Where are the tactics to bring Bolasie and Walcott into the game as these are the only players with any pace? Walcott might as well be a spectator. Just shows Big Sam has no bloody clue other than just to hoof it up to Tosun who is both small and slow in comparison to Van Dijk. I fear the second half.

Justin Doone
29 Posted 07/04/2018 at 13:31:19
0-0. Well done, Schneiderlin, clean sheet – now please take him off the pitch. Utter toss. Does nothing. A few needless fouls. That's it.

Sam, just as the previous managers, hasn't learnt. Problem is Rooney can't do 90 mins on a sodden pitch so it's a needless double midfield substitution needed.

Seamus, your the full-back. You can't afford to switch off. Too many gaps.

Bolasie gives the ball away so cheaply again and again but he's got pace and the only shot on target. So frustrating.

Keane so slow to react to his defensive duties. Mark the man not the space. Second balls are yours to win.

Greasy surface, defenders have struggled. Fizz lots more balls in. Own-goals abound.

It may be a game for the lucky Niasse off his knee as he slips. He'll run and Tosun has done okay but not got the pace and fitness lucky Niasse brings.

Christy Ring
30 Posted 07/04/2018 at 13:36:36
Liverpool have a centre-back playing left-back, and Clyne at right back isn't match fit, but Sam has our two wide men sitting back – we haven't tried to go at them once. Walcott with his speed should be going at Klavan everytime. Game plan atrocious.
Chris Gould
31 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:02:52
We don't have a midfielder who can pass the ball. It's dreadful to watch and an embarrassment.
Davies looks a nervous wreck on the ball.

Have we touched the ball in their penalty area?

Denny Kerr
32 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:13:45
Utterly embarrassing. I have never seen an Everton team with so little fight in them! We're playing a weakened Liverpool team, and are struggling.

Second half coming up; no team changes, Sam looking for a 0-0. What do you think is going to happen? It's gut-wrenching.

Danny Baily
33 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:22:46
Shite. Lack of quality. Gutted.
Ernie Baywood
34 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:22:49
A bit of effort was as much as we could muster. 10 minutes' worth.

Can't really point to any quality.

Liverpool didn't really fancy that game at all. Yet we still couldn't give them much of a challenge.

Roger Helm
36 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:25:57
Lack of quality, pure and simple. Players who can't pass to each other, forwards who can't hit the target from 5 yards out. Luckily, Liverpool weren't really interested.
Jay Wood

37 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:25:58
I should have set the alarm clock 75 minutes later and caught some more Zzzz's as Everton only started playing as an attacking force in the final 15 minutes.

During that time we had big, BIG chances to win it.

A Mersey Derby without bookings.

But for that final 15 minutes, it was a non-contact low-key training session for Liverpool in prep for their return game with Man City.

Jags our standout MotM.

17 games and 8 years without a Derby Day win. And counting...

Pete Clarke
38 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:30:30
Sam will no doubt blame the missed opportunities at the end. He's been here long enough to have worked some kind of football pattern into this team but what we saw was a piss-poor effort against a second-string team.

I hope Moshiri isn't happy with that point because it's meaningless yet boosts Sam's profile.

Jason Wilkinson
39 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:33:23
Roger (#36) spot on. For all we moan about Sam Allardyce, he can't be blamed for the quality in our squad. Tosun and Walcott are the two best players in recent games. Tosun was not at his best today but he needs time.

Calvert-Lewin, Davies, Schneiderlin and Rooney should not be in our squad come August.

David McMulllen
40 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:33:35
Can't argue with he headline "passionless derby" it was a training game for the RS and we were shite really shite. Too slow and too many inaccurate passes. Only came to life in the last 15 minutes. We'd have won if we tried, s'pose they would have too if they gived a fuck. Only one winner.
Tommy Coleman
41 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:34:50
They were there for the taking. Maddening!

Mentality of the team set up to be terrified. That's why Sam Allardyce has never and will never win anything.

Shane Corcoran
42 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:35:12
I'm happy enough.
Stephen Davies
43 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:35:28
Pete (#38),

Moshiri was there watching. If he can't see the light then heaven help us. The commentators even recognised that we needed a clearout.

John Pierce
44 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:38:37
Peak Allardyce that. He'll be made up how that game went.

Keane straight into camera after the game that they are ‘happy' to get a point. WTF? Points lad?! We don't need the points we need a performance.

Toddle off and go get yerz clean sheet bonus.

The most sterile derby I've seen in my life, stemming from a manager who only knows how to stay in a game and never sets up to go and win one.

All this against the most benign Liverpool team I've ever seen, they practically said you can have the points if you want them. We plainly did not.


Steve Brown
45 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:39:31
Can't blame Sam for the players. I am sick of reading this fucking shit. This game plan was all his own work, standing off Liverpool reserves. He is stinking this club out
Jason Wilkinson
46 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:41:20
Pickford = Future
Baines = Past
Coleman = Next 2 seasons
Jagielka = Past
Keane = Championship
Gana = Championship
Rooney = MLS
Davies = Championship
Schneiderlin = China
Bolasie = Palace
Tosun = Chance next season
Sam Allardyce = West Brom
Jason Lloyd
47 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:56:22
Jason Wilkinson is spot on. There are 3 or 4 players only worth retaining and that is the harsh reality.

The transfer policy since Moshiri came in is truly shocking.

David Moyes famously watched Lescott play 34 times before he felt sure he was the best centre back needed.

It's like we are picking based on who used to be good or had good stats, what a terrible situation – this is not fucking Championship Manager!

Paul Thompson
48 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:57:27
I normally hate the 'there for the taking' phrase, but was true today. It seems (from the Keane interview) that the Sam plan was to contain then hit them as they tired in the final 15. The weird thing is it nearly worked but for some awful finishing and bad luck.

As others have noted, the last hurrah doesn't disguise the underlying lack of quality, especially in midfield. Rooney has lost legs and confidence. Gana is okay as a squad player, but has zero creativity, Schneiderlin is a mercenary with no motivation.

I desperately want to be positive about Davies and Calvert-Lewin, but I'm just not seeing the key ingredients: passing and scoring ability respectively. Walcott will be an asset with better players and Baningime may come good as a holding midfielder. Other than that, we need new and creative blood.

David Barks
49 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:57:55
Really sad indictment of how far we've fallen. 17 derbies without a win, but none so disengaging coming into the match. We all knew how he was going to set us out in this match and it's fucking heartbreaking.

Sam talking about Rooney not having the legs to continue, maybe don't send the team out to do nothing but chase the opposition with the ball for 60 fucking minutes!! I hate that man.

Peter Cummings
50 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:58:19
Should have won it in the last 15 but overall a predictable result in a very poor derby. Little passion, a lot of negativity, and in our case still unable to put two decent passes together.

Very few of our players came out with real credit but Jags, Seamus, and Bainesy, as usual, snuffed out any threat posed by their so-called 'reserves' while Keane put in a more composed shift. Still only one shot on goal, however, and not a card in sight.

Hardly worth getting up at 7 am here for a 7:30 kick-off but well done our subs in the short time they were on. Allardyce Out ASAP!!!

Dermot Byrne
51 Posted 07/04/2018 at 14:59:40
Totally agree Steve Brown. There are players in that 11 today who can play so much better. A decent manager can instill a sense of drive and determination. Sam is not that guy. He did what he was brought in to do and that was stay up. Now he will be on his way.

The interesting thing will be who replaced him. There will lie our plans between now and new stadium. For me, Bournemouth boss a good idea but would also be pleased with a manager with a "fancy foreign name" as long as they have experience.

We talk about Goodison being a morgue but when we actually tried for last 15 mins, it can change so quickly and become what opposing teams fear. It just takes some effort and a sense the players care. We are pretty easy to get excited. Hate to say it, but that club across the park have known that for years.

Pete Clarke
52 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:01:43
It seemed that every loose ball was dropping for them but it's just our players being mentally piss weak.

We bring Gueye on and whilst he helped with a bit of pressure in the middle, he absolutely shits himself when he has the ball.

Only Seamus has any kind of composure on the ball with everyone else just wanting to get rid quickly. Calvert-Lewin could have done with netting that one for his own confidence but although I like him I just can't see him getting many goals.

I think there are a few players from today that we won't see next season but we do have some decent players. Crucially, it's going to take an exceptional manager who is tactically adept and can work some intelligence into the those that might miss the cut. Either that or it's a new team we need.

Paul Mackay
53 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:01:52
He has been crap all season but Schneiderlin actually did better than most of them today. Rooney hasn't got the legs to play in midfield. So play him as a 10 in behind Tosun and then drop him when Sigurdsson is back in the team.

Davies looks at little lost this season like he isn't sure what midfield role he is being asked to play. Bolasie was very poor today, he is a failed experiment and been a poor buy.

I don't have any issue with the subs today. I thought Sam made the right calls at the right time. But big questions need to be asked of the original team selection today given how poor Rooney has been for us in midfield against decent opposition all season.

Poor reaction to getting pulled off after 55 mins – he was one of our worst performers and has no right to be in the team. Start Baningime and Gueye together, and let's get some energy in midfield so we can get more mobile.

Michael Lynch
54 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:04:57
We were mediocre but, much as it galls me to say it, Sam had a game plan that very nearly worked. We nullified them and then had very clear chances to win it.

That was a very poor RS team but then, to be fair, we are a really fucking piss-poor Everton team so that evened it out a bit.

Looking forward to this season being over, a new manager coming in, and half of our squad being moved on to make way for some quality new players.

George Stuart
55 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:06:10
Worst derby ever?

Okay, there have been worse for us. The Ian (childhood blue) Rush 5 - 0 derby springs to mind.

But that was horrible, from the RS point of view too. Honestly, they were the clear winners. Their aim was to avoid injury and they did.

Imagine if it were the other way round. Everton in the Champions League quarterfinal, playing Liverpool. Best player: 2 broken legs; 2nd best player: broken leg, 3rd best player 2 yellows for spitting on the pitch.

Funny thing, I spent the first â…“ of my life disliking that club... Enjoying the contradictory of give and take. The last â…” of my life have consolidated my hatred for them. And it's their fault because they encapsulate the worst of human society.

Also, don't watch Derbys drinking a bottle of wine. Liverpool FC are truly shite.

Matthew Williams
56 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:07:16
Simon Dalzell
57 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:07:38
Note to John G Davies. Tom must be a relative of yours. He was outstandingly bad today. Does running about a lot make you pass to the opposition almost every time?

Young he is... but, he is not progressing or impressing. (The opposite, in fact.)

John Pierce
58 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:08:13
Paul, if you agree with Sam's plan then why play a guy, Rooney, whose main skill is with the ball only to kill him physically by playing him from the get go?

If this fraud was any sort of manager and wanted to execute that plan properly then Rooney stays on the bench and comes on after 60mins to dominate the game. Surely?

Nah, all I saw was my team taking another bite out of my diminished soul.

Utter toilet that was.

John Hammond
59 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:11:41
That, ladies and gentleman, is why Allardyce has to go at the end of the season. Everyone behind the ball after 30 mins against a team with half their second string on the field and their minds on their biggest game of the season next week. Apart from the last 10 mins, we were abject.

Players also to blame: forgetting how to play football for half the game. Can't even get the basics right. Rooney should be nowhere near the starting 11 unless it's against the bottom 6.

Despite all that, how did we not nick it at the end??!!

Jim Bennings
60 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:14:22
I guess Everton and the board will be happy now that season tickets sold by yesterday deadline.

A season without a single solitary highlight or positive in either league or Cup!!

Suzanne Gelazio
61 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:14:25
We were slower to react to nearly every ball.

I had a bet on Walcott scoring in a 1-0 so feel disappointed. We won't get those chances again for a while.

George Stuart
62 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:15:24
Funny thing. That execrable nonsense may well constitute a seventh best in the Premier League. Which was, errm... where we were last season. Which indicates the gap between the haves and the have-a-bits.

Positive spin: Liverpool is the new Barcelona feeder club :^)

[I still blame the Johnny Foreigner wine.]

Anthony Murphy
63 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:15:37
Klopp on TV absolutely delighted – just stop and think about it for a second. Imagine the reverse scenario where we play them at Anfield 3 days before our most important game for years imagine if they hadn't beaten us for years and we rest players. What would their approach be?

I want to know, will we ever stop being nice and accommodating to that lot?

The derby is over for me. A once-great fixture, now reduced to a friendly pat on the RS back twice a year. How did it come to this? – so intimidated and meek in the company of a side that has not won the league title for 28 years. Why so much respect and why the lack of belief every time we meet?

Denny Kerr
65 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:16:32

This is exactly why Sam shouldn't be here next season. His game plan was to sit back for 75 minutes, and have a go for 15, against a weak Liverpool team. We deserve so much more than that. This was the perfect opportunity to win a derby game, and we threw it away!

Okay, Sam, you kept us up, now get on yer bike!

Gavin Johnson
66 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:18:58
We showed them far too much respect in the 1st half and while BS was probably happy not to concede at half time I would argue that the RS minus Salah and Firmino were there for the killing.

We dominated them in the final 15 mins but it was little to late by then and in fairness we were wasteful with some of the chances, especially Calvert-Lewin's poor finishing. No disrespect to Dom but he should have put that one away.

John Pierce
67 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:21:15
When you sit off a team for 80 mins then are presented with two scoreable chances, is it any wonder the players snatch at them?

A defensive mindset percolating through a team damages you at both ends of the pitch. That's just one of the real effects of Allardyce's management. Attacking players demonstrably reduced to nervous wrecks in front of goal, all becoming premature at the mere hint of a chance.

The only lad left at the club that might take a chance is Tosun, that notion will be beaten out of him comes season's end, punished for scoring by being placed in extreme isolation on the pitch.

That'll learn you, pasha lad.

George Cumiskey
68 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:21:17
Allardyces TV interview, a thousand words and said nothing, brilliant.
It takes a special skill to do that.
Jamie Crowley
69 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:22:15
I wish to God everyone here on TW outside of the US could have seen the NBC analysis post-game.

Kyle Martino and Robbie Earl encapsulated, in all of 2 minutes, the thoughts of dare I say any Evertonian on earth.

With nothing left to play for, in front of our own fans, at Goodison, this abject excuse for a manager played for 70 to 75 minutes the most boring shit ever seen. Keep it tight, then throw the sink if it's 0-0.

WHY!? What else is there to play for this season? Why NOT have a go?

I absolutely despise this manager.

The laughable thing is he'll actually be happy with the way the game unfolded and ended.

The NBC commentators both agree that based upon the tactics and approach, Allardyce should not be brought back as manager.

The pundits see it. Let's hope the people in power at Everton do too.

He must go – I don't know why we're even waiting until season's end to make the change.

I hate him. I really do.

Jim Bennings
70 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:26:38
Ah well lads, only 𧶲 million spent in two years to become what we now are.

Record against the top 7:

Arsenal Lost 5-1 and 5-2
Chelsea Lost 2-0 Drew 0-0
Tottenham Lost 4-0 and 3-0
Manchester United Lost 4-0 and 2-0
Manchester City Drew 1-1 Lost 3-1
Burnley Lost 1-0 and 2-1
Liverpool Drew 1-1 and 0-0

A lot of money to become a very meek team, eh?

Jim Bennings
71 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:29:04
14 matches against the top 7, not registered a single win
Jamie Crowley
72 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:32:28
Jim @70,

That's 7 goals scored and THIRTY-FUCKING-ONE conceded against the other top sides!!!

Yet this Club ambles on mindlessly with an idiot at the helm who's ONLY tactical idea is to keep it close for 70 minutes, see where we are at, and then either have a half-arsed go at getting three points (don't lose the one point, for God's sake) or go into damage control losing 2-0 so he can "save face" and come up with a million excuses why we lost, still saying "All's well."

Fucking snake-oil salesman extraordinaire!!

What in the world have we become??!!

Joe McMahon
73 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:33:14
Since Joe Royle left, Everton players and their managers have been shit scared of Liverpool. It's a shambles of a club, top to bottom.

I got slated on here months ago saying that Calvert-Lewin will not make a Premier League striker (a good one). He needs to be loaned out at the very least.

We will never win the league again... and, to be honest as it's 28 years (and counting) since we last won anything, will we ever? Awful being an Evertonian, and has been for fucking years, Liverpool top 4 finish, maybe 2nd and Champions League semi-final (or worse).

Derek Knox
74 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:37:37
Jamie C @ 69, I think you more or less encapsulate the feelings of all Evertonians there, it was diabolical, to say the least.

I am one of Schneiderlin's biggest detractors, and would not have played him today, had I had a say in the selection. However, having said that, he was better today, than he has been, and certainly not the worst on the pitch.

Like Michael Kenrick so aptly headlined this this thread, passionless. That is what hurts more than anything, to see these players on Film Star's Earnings, and not hardly trying, or even breaking sweat for 90 minutes.

No Blue wants a defeat, but if they have been defeated fair and square, by a better team or narrowly by a wrong decision, it is reluctantly acceptable, but to just go through the motions is unforgivable.

Okay, we didn't get defeated in this game, but the lack of heart was there for all to see. The sooner we get rid of this idiot of a Manager, and quite a few of the playing staff, the better.

David Connor
75 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:37:41
We will never have a better chance of beating the Red Shite than today with 5 changes made, including a lad's first run out of the season and a lad who has been injured for a few months in Ings and Clyne, and we still couldn't beat them because the fat-headed twat of a manager we have is too defence-minded to take anyone on – let alone a Liverpool 2nd team. Thats why the useless fucker should be sacked tomorrow and Duncan Ferguson put in charge till the end of the season to put some passion into a very stale team.

Then hopefully the mass clearout can begin along with the naming of a manager who isn't shit struck of having a go at teams, regardless of who they are. There was masses of speckies at the game today screaming for him to be sacked. Tonight, I'm absolutely gutted at witnessing an Everton team that looked absolutely clueless for most of the game.

Come on Moshiri – put us all out of our misery and give us something to cheer us up before this horrendous season ends. The fat-headed one has accomplished his main objective of keeping us up. Pay him up and fuck him off.

Jim Bennings
76 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:42:37
Yes Jamie (#72), it's a downright embarrassing record really, isn't it, given the cash Everton frittered away in the last four transfer windows. How on earth Moshiri can seriously be remotely happy with that return because 90% Evertonians are NOT!!

Joe (#73), I agree on Calvert-Lewin mate, he's worked hard today but the fact is I don't think I've ever seen Dominic cleanly connect with the ball when striking it, he hits a ball like a 3-year-old.

I honestly don't see how we progress next season if we are still wheeling out the likes of Rooney, Davies and Calvert-Lewin, Bolasie, Schneiderlin etc etc and that's not to be cruel but it's a hard honest assessment of players not at the required level.

Paul Birmingham
77 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:42:51
Clearly set up to stifle; no bottle or desire to try and win until the last 10 minutes. That's 10 minutes of reasonable effort in 2 matches against two of the top 6 teams. I despair and I also feel further despair if the club doesn't have a clearout at the end of this season.

Why not start with Gueye from the start and not have gone for it from the off? It's the best chance for years to win a derby and based on the starting line-up it was clearly a case of too much respect for the RS.

In my view, the club is light-years off the top six, in tempo, culture, playing standards etc.. Enough said and another very piss poor derby fizzled out.

Next season, I'd put Calvert-Lewin and Davies on loan as in my view tough love needed to bolster their careers at this level.

No doubt Big Sam will claim a tactical master strike and that the club is playing good football. If this is football then God help us all.

Have a good weekend, Evertonians everywhere.👍🍀🍺

Jamie Crowley
78 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:46:40
Derek @74 -

I'd actually disagree just slightly with you regarding the passionless part.

Rooney was not passionless. When he was pulled off he was absolutely fuming pissed and the cameras caught him shouting, "BULLSHIT!" to the fat manager.

Davies was not passionless today in my opinion. He ran his nuts off. He's a young player who predictably made a few mistakes, but I'd echo comments earlier to not crucify the kid – he's a gem.

Schneiderlin –and that guy really gets on my tits – played well today and seemed to play with more cause than I've seen in over two or so years.

Tosun played with passion. Jagielka was immense. Coleman was ready to knock Ings (c-u-next-Tuesday) out.

There was passion there.

The problem is with the set-up and tactics of the team. Our approach is a loser's approach.

And that is why that fucker-who-shall-not-be-named must go immediately.

Jim Bennings
79 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:50:05
It's that bad trying to stomach Allardyce's stifling tactics that right now I'd gratefully take Martinez back this summer, and no I haven't got a short memory nor have I taken leave of my senses.

What I will say though at least under Bobby Brown Shoes we had a little bit of bollox about us against the top sides, won some and lost some, but these days it's lose most, draw the odd one 0-0 with disgusting tactics.

John Raftery
80 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:50:13
Contrary to what some have said above, Schneiderlin, who is one of the players I have despised this season, had a decent game today.

I agree with those who say Rooney doesn't have the legs to play in midfield. Milner, who is the same age, looked fitter, faster and stronger.

Once Sam replaced Rooney and Bolasie with Gueye and Calvert-Lewin, we at least started to compete and should have won it in the final 10 minutes.

At the back, Jags and Keane both had good games. Jags will take some replacing but our priority in the summer must be to find a top class central midfield player.

Given the severely limited resources at his disposal, I am not sure what else the manager could have done in this fixture.

Christy Ring
81 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:50:37
You can give out about not having the quality, but Sam's plan from the off, was completely defensive and negative, against a team with 2 fullbacks there for the taking.

Rooney was shocking, completely lost in midfield, hasn't the legs. Bolasie hasn't played one good game since he came back, but Sam still starts him.

The reason we played well in the last 20 mins wasn't because Liverpool got tired, it was because when Gueye and Bani replaced Rooney and Bolasie, we had 11 players on the field; up to that, we had 9.

Dave Abrahams
82 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:58:33
We didn't deserve it but we really should be celebrating a win, that would have hidden how poor we were and how poor the game was, until tomorrow at least. Hopefully the people who run the club will know now from Allardyce's tactics and his whole demeanour as a person that is not fit to be in charge of the club.

Too many poor and past-it players in the squad, it is patently obvious that we are nowhere good enough to get near any silverware at the moment. Our best players today are coming to the end of their careers, Baines and Jagielka, with Seamus still good for two or three seasons.

Very sad watching that performance today, even that team are better than we were allowed to play by an out-of-date manager. I thought he might change once we were safe but it is just not in the nature of the man. Roll on next season – it surely can't be worse than this rubbish.

Barry Lawler
83 Posted 07/04/2018 at 15:58:58
Well done Big Sam. Respect. Like myself, you have no confidence in the players so that was a good point. Bolasie, Calvert-Lewin, Davies, Keane, Rooney and Schneiderlin are awful and need replacing asap, although Schneiderlin did better than Rooney and Davies.

Rooney's legs have gone cos hes running around covering Davies because for some reason Davies thinks his main job is to chase fullbacks down – and his touch... OMG – he can control further than I can kick it.

Trevor Peers
84 Posted 07/04/2018 at 16:01:14
You'd take Martinez back, Jim? Have you been looking into his snake-charmer eyes, not the man to have with a relegation squad of players.

You must have a very short memory. He was beaten 4-0 twice at Anfield with a half-decent team. No thanks – I've had enough of that fraudster.

Tony Abrahams
85 Posted 07/04/2018 at 16:14:11
Nobody sees it better than the fans, and the general consensus is that we never done enough to try and win the game.

I don't expect too much, I don't expect us to suddenly lose the shackles, and turn into a team with a good structure, but this is what happened the minute both Rooney and Bolasie left the pitch.

We suddenly got a better grip in midfield, and started getting the ball wide. We could have scored with crosses from both flanks, and suddenly we had Liverpool on the back-foot for the only time in the game!

Sometimes you forget more than you know, and suddenly it all comes back to you! Put Pressure on the ball, and suddenly the game becomes so much harder for your opponent. John G basically told us this before a ball was kicked, and although Davies wasn't great, at least the kid always tries to carry the fight, which too many of his team-mates actually seem incapable of doing.

Let the season end quickly and let's get in a manager who preaches both hard work and intelligent football, and let's get some excitement back into the Old Lady before it finally shuts for good.

Jim Bennings
86 Posted 07/04/2018 at 16:21:01
John Raftery,

The point you miss, mate, is not about the players Allardyce had available but the fact he ALWAYS ALWAYS sets them out way too deep – and it's just never progressed from when he first came through the door; it's defence and that's about it!

Jim Bennings
87 Posted 07/04/2018 at 16:23:09
Trevor (#84),

Everyone always uses the 4-0 defeats at Anfield with Martinez but how about the 3-0 wins over Arsenal and Man Utd?

The win at Old Trafford, only Everton manager this century to win away to one of those sides?

Ray Jacques
88 Posted 07/04/2018 at 16:28:41
I agree, the game was pants. However, lots on here were predicting a heavy defeat today by 3, 4 or even 5 goals. We are light-years away from the RS.

I am okay with a draw. I just want the season to end.

Ian Bennett
89 Posted 07/04/2018 at 16:39:28
It was a better performance than I expected. Decent at the back, but toothless up front, zero pressure or closing down. Two gilt-edged chances squandered.

Major surgery needed through the team, I've already repeated.

Better performances from Schneiderlin and Keane, but I still don't fancy them. Hope Lookman secures that left side birth, as Bolasie was poor once again. Oh for Vlasic on the bench – I just don't get the need for Baningime.

Surely Niasse should have gone up top with Tosun – a racy 4-4-2...

Keith Monaghan
90 Posted 07/04/2018 at 16:40:19
Stop blaming Big Sam for everything – he wasn't here for the defining moment of our season:-

the mid-July cheap sale of a CURRENT top Premier League goal-scorer to the team one place above us last season and taking their washed-up overpaid has-been off them and making him our top paid player!!! A player that doesn't have a position – too slow and gifts the ball away needlessly. He makes Bill Kenwright drool though!

The club needs to get tough, off-load both Kenwright & his prodigal – and start looking forward. We have a great history, but need to be forward-looking and start seriously competing again – it's 20+ years since we won a trophy. We need to start moving forward on the pitch so as to take advantage of the opportunity I hope our new ground will give us. We do have some decent players, but a number who clearly aren't up to top Premier League standard now (or ever in some cases).

Stop buying players from struggling sides and no more cast-offs and has-beens from Man Utd – don't go near Jones & Shaw.

Surprisingly after his displays this season, Schneiderlin was one of our best players today; Rooney and Bolasie easily the worst – by a distance.

James Hughes
91 Posted 07/04/2018 at 16:44:03
I only saw bits of the game as my missus was running a half-marathon. What happened between Coleman and Ings?
Johan Elmgren
92 Posted 07/04/2018 at 16:48:21
Totally abject Allardyce performance. They were there for the taking, Allardyce had his chance to finally make something good, but he blew it big-time!

We need this man out of our club ASAP!

Allardyce out NOW!!!

Trevor Peers
93 Posted 07/04/2018 at 16:51:28
Never happen, Jim, Moshiri sacked Roberto thankfully, because we were losing home games against the likes likes of Stoke, West Ham and Swansea – he was a truly awful manager.
Andy Crooks
94 Posted 07/04/2018 at 16:53:48
Jim, in my view, Allardyce is the second worst coach in our history and Martinez is the worst coach ever to have earned a living out of football.
Stephen Brown
95 Posted 07/04/2018 at 16:54:57
Never thought I'd ever consider this but I think I'd take Rafa Benetez at the moment!

Alan McGuffog
96 Posted 07/04/2018 at 16:57:16
If and when we move to a new ground, Goodison will lie empty. Children will ask their parents what used to go on there? The answer will be that a football team used to play there. Of course they could say that now.
Jamie Crowley
97 Posted 07/04/2018 at 16:59:47
James @91 -

Ings tackled Coleman. Nothing in it at all.

Then Ings shot his mouth off to the ref and from what I gathered – and this is assumption – probably called Seamus a pussy or a diver or some such nonsense.

Seamus took umbrage, justifiably. Seamus started barking at Ings. Ings squared up and predictable shoving ensued.

Seamus should have smacked that tatooed fucker in the face.

Johan Elmgren
98 Posted 07/04/2018 at 17:00:07
Paul (#48). Is that true, did Keane say that? Was that really the gameplan? Hit them with 15 minutes to go? That must be the worst gameplan I've ever heard of...

First, if they were fatigued from the midweek-game, why not make them work even harder from the off, instead of letting them getting a rest through 77 minutes? If they were fatigued, they would certainly tire faster if we put them under immense pressure from the off...

Secondly, does he think the players are robots? Does he think there is an on-switch to suddenly make them play beautiful attacking football? It would be a good explanation for the lack of sharpness in front of goal. It's very hard for players to go through a game with a defensive mindset, then all of a sudden, make them play with an attacking mindset.

Thirdly, you're playing a dangerous game if your plan is to score the last 15 minutes.. It's hard enough to score during the whole 90 minutes...

He needs to go now. Dinosaurs are extinct, there's a reason why...

Allardyce out now!!

Rog Walker
99 Posted 07/04/2018 at 17:01:36
Like Jamie (69) I watched in the US. This is all down to the manager, I'm sick of Sam saying how well he's doing against the big clubs. Screw him., We are a big club with a small manager... until we get a manager with some drive and aggression we will play mediocre mid-table football.
Kevin Prytherch
100 Posted 07/04/2018 at 17:04:28
Keith 90 - Schneiderlin one of our best players??

The man has a knack of hiding. He's rarely available for the ball, constantly positioning himself a little too close to the opposition.

He doesn't tackle, just jockeys players with a gentle jog.

He played a number of 1 yard balls today that instantly put another player under undue pressure.

He offers no creativity, rarely does he play a pass more than 5 yards forward.

People criticise Davies on here and, while he plays some poor passes, he tries to go forward, doesn't stop running, always shows for the ball, doesn't shy from tackles and created a chance today. A couple of times his pressing forced an error today.

Give me a team of Davies over a team of Schneiderlin any day.

You are right, however, that Bolasie was worse!!

Jim Bennings
101 Posted 07/04/2018 at 17:06:34
Anyway the season has drawn to a close now, 5 nothing meaningless games remain with nothing more exciting than a battle to maybe overturn Leicester for 8th or stave off Newcastle to grab 9th.

Moshiri needs to start drawing up a “to do” list as of now and hopefully not sit there coming out with crackpot one liners like some extra from One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest.

Big changes and brave changes are needed both on and off that pitch if we are serious about progressing as a club.

Brian Williams
102 Posted 07/04/2018 at 17:07:07
We will probably NEVER have a better chance to beat them and we blew it bigtime through lack of confidence, lack of effort, lack of guile, probably a lack of lots of other things........ but just like the team today for 80 minutes, I can't be arsed.
Dave Ganley
103 Posted 07/04/2018 at 17:10:50
Awful game really. Terrible tactics which is indicative of Allardyce teams. If the RS were at the races, they would have been out of sight before we even got going. The way they just back off is just ridiculous. Hardly ever pressured their back 4 until the last quarter and when the RS had the ball we didn't even go across the half-way line, we just ran back to the 18-yard area and just sat. Horrible football dictated by a dinosaur that really has no place in modern football.

I am really struggling to remember a time when the football was so unenjoyable. Even Walter's teams had a bit of passion. As sad as it is to say, Allardyce makes Martinez seem like a football genius and we know how dire he was. Sitting back and letting a team come onto you, especially the RS, is just awful. I'm quite sure he thinks he's still at Bolton or Newcastle or some other shite club.

We should not have to tolerate this shit and I never will. I will never stop having standards that we should be aiming for. No, we haven't been a top club for years but we shouldn't stop aspiring to get back to the top table. We are still the 4th most successful club in England and to watch this anti-football is heartbreaking.

The decline over the last 5 years has been of epic proportions to the point that we have this idiot in charge now. His tactics have never really had a place in football but somehow he got away with it for years; how he is still in a job, any job let alone at our club beggars belief. This has to be a new low for us – and I include the Mike Walker era in that. Just get the fuck out of our club Allardyce before you completely ruin it.

I'm struggling to think of more than half a dozen players who we should keep come the summer. It's really hard to assess how good, bad or indifferent they are given how awful the tactics are. There was a decent atmosphere at the start of the game today but Allardyce's tactics totally killed it. It's been the same ever since Moyes left. Awful football that sucks the life and joy out of watching football. Martinez started the rot and Allardyce has completed it. RIP the bear pit that we all once knew and loved.

Paul Welsby
104 Posted 07/04/2018 at 17:14:24
I just can't believe some of our fans saying Schneiderlin played well or was our best player! On what basis? He shit out of a tackle on the edge of the box in the 1st half, that is not acceptable for any player to do – or is it? Maybe for some Evertonians it is? He ambles round the pitch so slowly, the game just passes him by. We have been carrying him for all the games he has played in this season.

The best one I've heard today is give credit were credit's due? What did he do to earn credit? You earn credit by putting a shift in, scoring a goal or two, grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck and influencing the outcome. Did he do any of the above? If you think winning a couple of headers or putting a tackle or two in earns you credit, then we are fucked and will be stuck with these bang-average players at best for many more seasons to come.

Jim Bennings
105 Posted 07/04/2018 at 17:17:26
Another crazy stat to add to the list of just how lame this season has been.

Everton have not scored in both halves of a football match since – wait for it – West Ham on November 27th.

Gets better doesn't it.

Andrew Presly
106 Posted 07/04/2018 at 17:20:48
So, we've never done it under Allardyce...


Stephen Brown
107 Posted 07/04/2018 at 17:22:59
I'm also going to defend Davies. He produced the only pass with a smidgen of guile today when releasing Baines to create a chance in the 2nd half.

I think No 1 on any transfer list for the summer is a midfielder who passes forward and is comfortable on the ball!

So disappointed with the missed opportunity today! Oh dear – the joys of being an Evertonian!

Justin Doone
108 Posted 07/04/2018 at 17:24:44
We all know how poor we have played all season. I'm not sure why anyone thinks we can all of a sudden play differently.

I'm happy with a point. I can count on one hand the amount of times we have played well enough to beet Liverpool in the last 12 years and have ended up losing, so I'll take a draw. The football was just typical of this season.

Opinions differ but Schneiderlin did nothing. How is that playing better? Bin him. Rooney gave the ball away a few times but at least he passed and went forwards, the same for Davies.

Bolasie had always been the same, a very frustrating player. His final ball, just as Walcott's is too, is poor and often given straight away back to the opposition. But both on their day posses the raw ingredients to be exciting match winners.

Best attacks came through Baines and Seamus, surely its obvious they need more freedom to get forward. Play them as Wing backs in a 5-4-1 formation.

Anthony Murphy
110 Posted 07/04/2018 at 17:37:55
Rooney's outburst at being subbed was the key moment because it told us a lot. He knows his legs have gone, so cannot carry out the role being asked of him effectively. He knows he should be used in a different capacity and with the right tactics and mentality, he also knows a win was very possible.

He was right to kick off as his frustrations are aimed squarely at the approach of the manager. Whether he's past it or not, Rooney is a winner and is now sadly managed by someone not fit to lace his boots.

Craig Walker
111 Posted 07/04/2018 at 17:47:55
Derby Day 2 : Title Shot
Derby Day 1 : Total Shite
Ste Traverse
112 Posted 07/04/2018 at 17:48:49
I can't believe we've got some beaut who thinks Roberto Martinez is the answer to all our problems. Really???

While we were poor until Liverpool burnt themselves out around the 70th minute mark, and they created next to nothing in the second half, I keep reading comments such as 'shameful' 'embarrassing' 'gutted' etc.

Talk about over the top. It was just before my time but the 0-5 against them was shameful embarrassing and something to be gutted about, not a goalless draw.

John G Davies
113 Posted 07/04/2018 at 17:52:51
A good amount of Premier League players are passionless. Phony cunts a lot of them.

Pogba linked with a City move today. Guess what colour his hair is dyed.

Anton Walsh
114 Posted 07/04/2018 at 17:58:02
I noticed the koppites jumping whilst singing today just like something out of baltiks or Italy. They used to sway with a song. Lost their minds, me thinks.
Dave Ganley
115 Posted 07/04/2018 at 18:00:18
Ste you're quite right that 5-0 hammering in 1982 was embarrassing and shameful but that doesn't mean the football on show today and for most of the season isn't equally as bad. Just because we didn't lose 5-0 doesn't detract from the fact that the display today was just awful.

Gutless, Passionless and without any kind of intent to win the game until the last quarter – by which point we haven't got anybody of any quality to put away the 2 chances we actually made. It's pitiful stuff, mate, whichever way you want to dress it up.

Kunal Desai
116 Posted 07/04/2018 at 18:27:01
Sadly, there won't be wholesale changes in the summer. This season has put us back another two seasons in challenging for 7th and I think next season may well be much of the same as I don't think there will be big changes made to the squad – 2 or 3 out and 2 or 3 in. Another transitional period for the club over 4 or 5 transfer windows just to get back to challenging for 6th or 7th.
Sean Chen
117 Posted 07/04/2018 at 18:31:54
Dear Mr Allardyce,

I am an Everton fan who lives in New York, and my first Everton match was the FA Cup Final of 1989.

I read your comments about the team as the videos and transcripts are posted on the Liverpool Echo, and I watch your team here in the USA on the NBC family of networks. I don't use FaceBook or Instagram, and I have never posted on Twitter.

You aren't a good manager, and you will not take Everton forward. I don't think that you are a good manager for this club so please count me as one of your doubters.

Allardyce Out.

Kenwright Out.

Jay Harris
118 Posted 07/04/2018 at 18:33:07
I agree with most posters that Sam's tactics were disgraceful given that Liverpool has their B team out and we were playing with 9½ men given Rooney's, Schneiderlin's and Bolasie's contribution. They are 3 players that shouldn't be playing in the Premier League – let alone for us!

We need a serious beef up in midfieldin the summer with players who can close, tackle, be creative and score the odd goal. Davies has gone backward this season but he at least is still an apprentice; the others have no excuse whatsoever.

Jim Bennings
120 Posted 07/04/2018 at 18:53:08
We need a central midfielder that can actually run, someone who isn't scared to carry the ball and who at least wants to get their head up and play a god-damn forward pass. Rooney can't run anymore and is too deep to play the decisive passes now.

Davies can't do it let's be honest, we've seen nothing from him resembling a creative central midfielder all season.

Schneiderlin is nothing and Gueye runs around but whilst offering a bit of bite he doesn't affect games.

We need a cross between an Arteta and Gravesen type player.

Danny Broderick
121 Posted 07/04/2018 at 18:56:37
Anyone who thinks Schneiderlin had a good game, look at the clip where Oxlade-Chamberlain blazed a shot over the bar in the second half from about 20 yards. As usual, Schneiderlin jockeyed him ineffectively in 2nd fear, and the lad got past him and got a shot off.

That sums up Schneiderlin for me. He occupied the central space well enough today. The trouble is, he doesn't win tackles, he doesn't pass the ball forward. He just runs around jockeying people and, when he gets the ball, passing it 10 yards backwards or sideways.

He doesn't really add any value – we'd have been better with the legs of Baningime in there with Davies today.

By the way, the tactics were way too negative. I don't recall ever seeing us that deep at home.

Anthony Murphy
122 Posted 07/04/2018 at 19:00:42
Man Utd showing what it means to show passion, commitment and a winning mentality in a uerby,
Christy Ring
123 Posted 07/04/2018 at 19:12:45
I don't agree with the Davies bashing. For most of the first half, he was playing on the left side of midfield, trying to close down Clyne coming forward, doing Bolasie's job, and Rooney sat back in midfield not even tackling. Davies is an attacking midfielder, being played totally out of position by Sam.
Jim Bennings
125 Posted 07/04/2018 at 19:28:59

Davies is young but I'm afraid I just don't quite subscribe to this love-in with him really. He runs (or trots) about a lot looking busy but when you look at his game, he's busy not actually doing anything.

Can he shoot?

Does he score?

Is he quick?

No no and no... but you would want three yeses if you are looking for a top quality attacking Premier League midfield player, I'm afraid.

Jay Woods

126 Posted 07/04/2018 at 19:31:59
Davies passes the ball to where his target player is, not where he is going to be when the ball arrives. As a consequence, pretty much every pass he makes gets intercepted by the opposition.
Stephen Davies
127 Posted 07/04/2018 at 19:32:38
Jim (#120),

We've been crying out for that type of player for years. Why it's never been addressed is a mystery... it's glaringly obvious.

We have no-one (or had no-one) who regularly creates chances for the forward; no guile, skill or link-up play.

Simon Dalzell
128 Posted 07/04/2018 at 19:39:03
I don't think anyone is "Davies Bashing" – I'm sure we'd all like to see him playing well. The fact is, "playing out of position, having to do the work of others, and being young" is no excuse for dreadful ball control and constantly passing to the opposition.

I get no pleasure from saying this. He's certainly not on his own but just the basics would be a start.

Jimmy Hogan
129 Posted 07/04/2018 at 19:40:47
We choked. Simple as that. We had the chances at the end to put them to the sword. We were just too nervous to tuck them away.
Jim Bennings
130 Posted 07/04/2018 at 19:41:50
Very true, Stephen.

It astounds me why we are still talking about never replacing players we lost over 6 years ago.

I cringe at how mediocre our midfield options are nowadays.

Keith Monaghan
131 Posted 07/04/2018 at 19:41:59
Kevin @90:-

What I said was "Surprisingly, after his displays this season, Schneiderlin was one of our best players today; Rooney and Bolasie easily the worst – by a distance."

That was a common opinion where I was sat; and most of us also said he's been rubbish all season, after looking a good signing when he joined last season.

I agree re Tom Davies – he's struggled this season, but at 19 in a poor team where the senior pros have generally not delivered, that's no surprise – with our squad, he'd still be in my 11 if everyone was fit, and I rate him well above Schneiderlin; I too would much prefer a team of Davies before a team of Schneiderlin.

Much of what you say about Schneiderlin is true of Rooney, forever marking space and opponents jog past him with ease, unless he cuts them down with one of his wild lunges. I wouldn't accuse Rooney of hiding, but Barkley was a master at it IMO!

In my view, there were only 5 players in today's starting 11 good enough to be regular starters for a decent Premier League club:- Pickford, Coleman, Davies, Walcott & Tosun.

Apart from our over-sentimental chairman's desires, the only reason Rooney came to Everton is 'cos he's not good enough to play for a top 6 club. The pity is, he's caused his own decline by body abuse – just compare him to David Silva, there's less than 3 months, but a gulf in fitness and usefulness between them.

Brian Wilkinson
132 Posted 07/04/2018 at 19:51:23
I was sat in upper Bullens near the half-way line. I am struggling to agree for some who said Schneiderlin did not do much today.

I have given the guy enough stick in the past for no effort, but even my past views on him have to give the guy a break today; he was one of our better players on the pitch today.

Anyone who saw it different must have been watching a different game to me.

I am all for having a go if they are not pulling their weight; he has rightly had loads of stick in the past.

He deserves a break today, he put in a shift whereas Bolasie and Rooney stank the place out.

Bill Gienapp
133 Posted 07/04/2018 at 19:53:00
No doubt Sam will be pointing to going undefeated in two Merseyside Derbies as some sort of resume-booster to crow about.
Phil Walling
134 Posted 07/04/2018 at 19:57:29
Everton will finish the season in eighth place. Beyond our wildest dreams at Christmas. The place money for that will be 𧴵M and Moshiri will opt to stick with Allardyce, however shit the football. You'll see!
Christine Foster
135 Posted 07/04/2018 at 19:58:33
Liverpool were on a high after midweek, irrespective of five changes. We were on a hiding to nothing that most of us expected. we played better and they played worse. Result? A draw but at least there was more aggression and fight than just sitting back.

Lack of passion? Compared to what? The Man city game or the Dogs of War? We should have won it several times, but at least we were there or thereabouts which we haven't been for the season to date.

Once again, Allardyce got it wrong in the line-up: for the second time running, he used Rooney in the centre defensive midfield where legs are required. Stupid. Next to Schneiderlin – even worse... one is legless, the other is clueless.

People left right and centre are condemning Rooney for his performance; you may as well ask him to play full back.. he is not a defensive player. Schneiderlin can hide superbly... leaving Rooney as a high-profile fall guy. Play him in the right position or don't play him at all. Disgraceful.

The result? Better than I thought we would get after they thrashed Man City, but by no means over-run or out-fought. On the balance, we deserved to win. By the way, I never find a derby passionless...

Johan Elmgren
136 Posted 07/04/2018 at 19:59:23
If that is the case, Phil (#134), I won't watch a single game next season... the anguish and frustration is killing me...

Allardyce out now!!

Rick Tarleton
137 Posted 07/04/2018 at 19:59:58
Schneiderlin did a good defensive job today, but he's miles from running a midfield which is what we bought him for. Davies runs and fights, but is reliant on the off-the-ball runners going to where he thinks they should and they rarely do.

With a bit of calmness and luck, we could have won today. Overall, we didn't deserve to win, but we didn't deserve to lose either. Both Liverpool and Man City paid the price for playing their derby game as a secondary consideration and both justly paid the price.

Rooney and Bolasie were poor, Coleman should be club captain and Keane was a bit more like the player he was at Burnley.

Drew O'Neall
138 Posted 07/04/2018 at 20:10:34
Davies is a good player.

His positive traits are being prepared to receive the ball and protect it, à la Pienaar.

He also has the stamina and tenacity to close down the space in midfield when we aren't in possession. If you've ever played that position you know how important it can be to have those legs in there.

He is also positive.

Like the much maligned Osman, he always tries to get the ball forward, either by carrying it or passing it early, this naturally involves risk and, like Osman, he can therefore become the subject of ire when inevitably it doesn't come off every time but give me a brave player like Davies or Osman who attempts to do something with it over a coward like Schneiderlin any day of the week.

Which leads me on to Schneiderlin who played very well today, completely out of character. He put in several well-timed tackles contrary to Danny's assertions @ 121 and was the cool head needed in the centre during turnover, keeping it simple and safe rather than senselessly punting it back to them as soon as we get it back as we've seen regularly over the years and indeed did at Anfield this winter.

Rooney did absolutely nothing and had no right to be annoyed at getting hooked. I was in the camp who thought he shouldn't have been played as the deep midfielder against Man City but he had the chance to make things happen further up the field today and didn't take it so I personally thought Sam's tactical change was a sensible one, employing more legs in midfield and giving Davies the license to receive the ball further up the pitch. However he didn't persevere and removed him shortly after.

Bolasie still isn't fit and won't have the mobility and flexibility he needs to play his dynamic game until next season, if it ever returns. He is bravely doing a job because he's the best player we have in the position, despite getting dog's abuse each week.

In summary, we aren't good enough to compete with Liverpool but we were good enough to beat the team they put out today and, but for a couple of missed sitters, we would have done. While it is gutting not to have got the Anfield monkey off our collective backs, given we have nothing to play for this season. Posters like Danny and Jim above should consider the performances on their merits rather than seeking skapegoats for the result.

Jim Hardin
139 Posted 07/04/2018 at 20:15:04

I agree, Wayne shouldn't be played at all. He is the proverbial albatross around the neck of the club. Tired of the excuses made for him. No matter where he is supposed to play, he gives the ball away far too easily all over the pitch. He did the same thing today. That has nothing to do with defensive skills at all.

Wayne is not the best player at any spot, takes playing time away from others, and creates a big hole in every formation at his spot. In most teams he wouldn't start or possibly even make the bench.

James Lauwervine
140 Posted 07/04/2018 at 20:16:43
If Calvert-Lewin knew how to fucking hit a ball, it would all be a very different story. We should have won – fact. MotM – Jags for me.
Drew O'Neall
141 Posted 07/04/2018 at 20:17:27
Yes Jim, time for China or the MLS if he's got the chance this summer.
Matt Hunter
142 Posted 07/04/2018 at 20:20:38
Jim Hardin (#139) Nailed it. Rooney is an absolute nightmare.
John G Davies
143 Posted 07/04/2018 at 20:24:00
The problem with a lot of Blue's summed up in the comments on Tom Davies.

He's a 19-year-old kid trying to develop his game and he's being written off.

Tony Marsh
144 Posted 07/04/2018 at 20:25:58
That was the worst derby atmosphere in living memory. Not a single player booked either, was there?

The thing is most Evertonians don't realise that Liverpool FC and thier fans don't consider us as a threat or even a challenge anymore. We are so far down the pecking order when it comes to being considered a 'big game' team, it's shocking.

Only in the minds of our own fans is the derby a huge game. The Muppets in charge at EFC have made us a laughing stock. Today was hugely embarrassing. To say we need a clearout is not really the truth. We need the whole club restructuring and we need to rid ourselves of the mindset of being happy-go-lucky losers .

A Kopite pal of mine hit it home perfectly today when he said this game today was seen as a hindrance to them. A non-event getting in the way of bigger things. Sad thing is, it's the truth: we are a nothing club. A joke that has us being pitied rather than feared. I hate Kenwright for that. Why won't Bill just fuck off and leave us be?

Tony Stanley
145 Posted 07/04/2018 at 20:31:20
The good news, if there is any, is that it's one step closer to Mr Allardyce being kicked out of Goodison Park. Whoever thought it was a good idea in the first place obviously doesn't know anything about football.
Phil Walling
146 Posted 07/04/2018 at 20:35:00
I suspect Allardyce is on a mission to piss Rooney off big time so as to ease the departure of 'our hero' in the near future.

So don't seek to maximise his remaining talents, just turn the crowd against him so as to save you the job of having to 'list' him.

Like a lot of others, I'm beginning to see behind the fat fuck who is slowly but surely making his job a permanent one!

Paul Welsby
147 Posted 07/04/2018 at 20:44:14
John G Davies,

I think it would benefit Everton, Tom, Dom and other young players to go out on loan! We aren't in any position to be seeing if they will cut it in the Premier League and it's doing them no favours, fans getting on their backs.

If are our team was full of talented confident players, it would be easy for these young players to learn from them, but we're in a mess with a terrible manager so maybe they should go out on loan next season as this environment is no good for these young players imo. They're learning how to lose with us and that's a bad habit to pick up at such a young age.

Charles Brewer
148 Posted 07/04/2018 at 20:46:00
It would appear that Allardyce's plan – wait for them to tire then have a go actually worked. The RS dominated in a horrible manner – there were times when an RS player in the halfway line had note Everton player between gun and the edge if the penalty area – but they did collapse at the end.

The problem was that the right players weren't there to score. I reckon Niasse would have buried any of the Tosun, Coleman or Calvert-Lewin opportunities because, in each case, they were slow to react. Niasse is effective not because he's a great striker but because he gambles. None of the above did. I suspect a late-introduced Rooney might have done the same.

I also thought that Schneiderlin was much better than in previous matches; he was just total shit in this one. And I really don't understand the attitude of some towards Tom Davies, he was having to do 3 men's jobs in the busiest of area of the field and the duels in his own. He shows passion, skill and actuality goes forward. The reason he passes to where players are is because the body of the Everton players play like statues.

Andy Crooks
149 Posted 07/04/2018 at 20:46:52
John G, I think you are spot on about Tom. He has come from being coached and mentored by the admirable Unsworth to Sam fucking Allardyce and the appalling Shakespeare.

In the name of God, what has it come to? Sam fucking Allardyce and his band of nonentities running our club. This is the most shameful era in our history.

When Moyes went we, in my view, reached a point where things could have been really different. Instead, we had the meeting of two chancers, fakes and charlatans. The appalling Kenwright and Martinez. It defies belief that Martinez was appointed and was given an extended contract. Nowhere else in the world could the mind-blowing, self-serving, utterly fuckwitted incompetence that has been inflicted on Evertonians be gotten away with.

The custodians of our club have been devoid of shame for many a year. Greedy, self-serving, talentless, uninspired, complacent specimens.

Eddie Dunn
150 Posted 07/04/2018 at 20:56:20
Rooney is finished. Sad to say this, but he costs us every game. His loose passing and lack of speed is putting his teammates in the shit regularly.

Sam was right to sub him, but shouldn't have selected him in the first place. The best thing would have been to put him on the bench to introduce up front with 20 mins to go. The idea of him playing a Pirlo style role is pie in the sky.

Davies is marvellously positive in his outlook, but his passing and timing of his pass is lacking. I know he is very young but he is shouldering too much responsibility and he is technically not yet ready.

Calvert-Lewin battled well on the left and did far better than Bolasie but, when his chance came, he bottled it, trying a fancy curler instead of putting his laces through the ball.

We lack quality virtually everywhere. There is so much surgery needed on this squad that an autopsy might be more appropriate.

Dave Abrahams
151 Posted 07/04/2018 at 20:57:43
Drew (141), I think one of the top Chinese clubs looked at Wayne around Christmas time 2016 and gave him the thumbs down.

Some silly fucker from Everton looked at him last summer and couldn't get him here quick enough, no prizes for guessing who the silly fucker was.

Johan Elmgren
152 Posted 07/04/2018 at 20:58:02
Charles (#148), but it didn't work, did it? A draw in a game that was there for the taking... We were lucky to not be 1-0 or 2-0 down by half-time. Two excellent Pickford saves prevented that... Maybe if we would have tried to play attacking football from scratch we might have won... but we didn't.

Allardyce out now!!

Phil Walling
153 Posted 07/04/2018 at 20:59:01
Andy, I'm amazed at your statement that 'nowhere in the world could the fuck-witted incompetence of our board be got away with.'

Clubs with wealthy wannabees like Moshiri have been doing it for years and I'm fed up with referring to the likes of Aston Villa, Sunderland, Newcastle Utd, Leeds Utd, Nottm Forest et al who have all suffered the football ignorance of wealthy purchasers who know nowt about the game.

Everton is just the latest victim in a long line.

Terry Farrell
154 Posted 07/04/2018 at 21:00:04
I love Tom Davies's drive and positive attempts to make things happen. He needs to feel the love – not negativity.
Sean Patton
155 Posted 07/04/2018 at 21:00:09
That game was crying out for Niasse in the last 20 minutes; there is no way he misses those late chances. He should have come on for Davies.
Ian Riley
157 Posted 07/04/2018 at 21:11:48
Unlucky not to win with the chances. However our so called "game changing players" didn't turn up. Sadly Rooney is done. The speed of the game is beyond him. Still, we got him for nothing and Man Utd don't give away players unless they can offer something.

Let's face it, Liverpool had squad players out today and we struggled. Sadly we need rebuilding in areas of the pitch. New manager or not, the cheque book needs coming out. Still, we never lost.

Jim Bennings
158 Posted 07/04/2018 at 21:16:16
It's probably about time now as well that someone with half a brain on Everton's coaching staff stood up and realised that Calvert-Lewin is not going to make it as a Premier League striker and maybe start looking at fine tuning and coaching him as a winger?

We've had debates over the years about positions of players; I recall the raging Jack Rodwell debate about him eventually moving to a ball-playing centre-half (which incidentally never happened).

But other examples are Alan Smith at Leeds, who started as a striker but moved to midfield and never looked back; also same with Wayne Rooney now, isn't it?

I honestly just don't think Dominic Calvert-Lewin has what it takes to be that goal scorer we need. I don't think I have ever seen him hit a ball with any conviction or power, nor really look like being capable of poaching goals.

That chance today he should have ripped the net from its foundations and made his name in Everton derby folklore but, in typical Calvert-Lewin fashion, he scuffs a woeful attempt not even on target.

Andy Meighan
159 Posted 07/04/2018 at 21:16:27
Dave (#151),

Spot on. Me and my brother have just said exactly the same thing. You may as well put his arl fella in midfield the last 2 games and no-one would've noticed the difference. Absolutely stinks of Kenwright and his fucking idiotic old pals act. No other team harbouring any sort of ambition would have touched him with a shitty stick. But no... Everton would, wouldn't they?

My god, what a season this has been And the coup de grace is it looks like them bastards will go all the way in Europe... I hope not, God, I hope not. But everything points to it. Mind you, bit of a one-man team at the moment, aren't they? I'd like to see how they coped if he was really injured.

Peter Mills
160 Posted 07/04/2018 at 21:17:19
I thought Tom Davies tried very hard, never hid, made quite a few mistakes, but given his age should be applauded for his performance.

Morgan Schneiderlin did much better than usual.

Dominic Calvert-Lewin played well apart from his miss, he was a huge improvement on Bolasie.

Seamus having a snarl at Ings lifted the whole performance, we need 5 players doing that.

Dave Abrahams
161 Posted 07/04/2018 at 21:18:39
Sean (#155),

Niasse hasn't been given hardly any time in the last few weeks... I don't know why, he is more mobile than Tosun and upsets opposition defences more. He should have definitely been used at some stage today.

Jack Convery
162 Posted 07/04/2018 at 21:23:55
Allardyce Out Now!!

I didn't see the game so won't make any further comment.

Julian Exshaw
163 Posted 07/04/2018 at 21:24:08
The saddest aspect of all is how this season has numbed us, how it has left us almost indifferent... almost!

Sitting through that match with other fans on the Live Forum it occurred to me that most of us woke up this morning without nerves, without the apprehension we all feel before a derby. There was a haunting inevitability about the whole event.

Following the minute's applause for Ray Wilkins, there was the usual roar, the kind that raises the hair on the back of the neck. Alas, we wouldn't hear it again until the dying moments when we finally ventured out of our retreat. I remember as a kid seeing the great derbies in the late 70s, and the glorious 80s. This game was an insult to those days.

I think we have good players, good honest lads and great knowledgeable fans. This season has, however, been a disgrace. It started with the iffy summer signings, then those horrible nights in the Europa League, the thrashings handed out to us by the other top teams, the lack of goals, excitement, flair, and to cap it all, going out of the cups so early, so meekly. Our very own 'annus horribilis'.

Jim Bennings
164 Posted 07/04/2018 at 21:25:19
Dave (#161),

Good point about Niasse there, he's not great but maybe a tad more able in the lone striker position than Tosun (who just doesn't appear to be a lone frontman).

Nothing left to play for this season other than pride so hopefully Gravy Tits might start playing Niasse next to Tosun and just bloody go for it in the remaining games and give the bored-shitless fans some sort of entertainment value (entertainment... remember that?).

Jay Harris
165 Posted 07/04/2018 at 21:27:14
We didnt get Rooney for nothing.

Man Utd were paying him 𧷤k a week and wanted him off their books. We are paying him 𧵎k a week and it was reported that he was valued at 㾻M in the Lukaku transfer saga.

All part of Boys Pen Bill dropping his trousers yet again for Man Utd rejects while allowing them to cherry-pick our best players.

Jim Bennings
166 Posted 07/04/2018 at 21:32:46
Sad thing about it today is if we'd had Lukaku in that last 10 minutes and the two chances had fallen to him he would arguably have taken one and we'd have probably been celebrating the win....

But hey ho, that ship sailed by long ago.

Andy Crooks
167 Posted 07/04/2018 at 21:35:50
Phil (#153), that is a very good and worrying point. I tend to look at our club in a blinkered way, as if, in fact, what happens to us is isolated from the rest of football. It is like my fretting over possible relegation when Jay Wood had quite clearly given statistical reassurance.

Also, I have the arrogance to believe that we are better than the clubs you name. However, I think our next managerial appointment is make or break. This season, at least one club whose supporters never feared it, are going to be relegated. We are, in my opinion, not much better than they are. Is 7th place acceptable after all?

Colin Glassar
168 Posted 07/04/2018 at 21:44:50
According to Lardarse, we won the last 25 mins of the game by virtue of passing together a few passes and breaking into a sweat.

If he continues in this vein we can look forward to five minutes of each game and 85 minutes of sheer hell. Well, will Moshiri pull the trigger?

Ian Riley
169 Posted 07/04/2018 at 21:46:19
Jay (#165), no fee was paid according to media reports. We pay him half of what Man Utd did. He may have received a pay-off as well.

Coming home was a romantic thought, not a football one. The football director and previous manager need to look at themselves.

Lukaku made it clear he was going to move on. Our best players will move on because they are ambitious. I can't blame them.

John G Davies
170 Posted 07/04/2018 at 21:51:57
Whatever he's on is immaterial.

He's gone and it's sad to watch the deterioration of one of the greatest players the Premier League has seen.

Ron Marr
171 Posted 07/04/2018 at 21:53:12
Only thing one can guarantee is that if Everton don't win then Allardyce will claim it's not his fault. Another dreadful game-plan where Everton only tried to win in the last 15 minutes. He should be sent packing on Monday.
Gavin McGarvey
172 Posted 07/04/2018 at 22:04:45
I'm not an Allardyce fan, and the sooner he is gone the better imho. I didn't like his tactics today, nor on other days either. All that being said, he is in an impossible situation. He is a dead man walking, and he still needs to try and inspire whichever starting 11 he picks to still give their all. It's pointless to complain about him as he is as good as gone. If not, then I'll join in. The whole season (all 3 managers of it) has been mismanaged, and Allardyce 's contribution notwithstanding, it has been a balls up from start to finish.

As for the players, I wish we had the new management team appointed now, so we could see who might be worth keeping. Personally, I think most of them are okay-ish, but the squad lacks balance, and it's difficult to judge until the balance is there. Given the money spent, then that is a real disappointment. Fingers crossed that the next manager is better at knocking them into shape than the last.

Jeff Armstrong
173 Posted 07/04/2018 at 22:06:55
Terry (#154),

Yes, Davies does have drive and positivity, but he lacks the one thing required with these attributes... quality!

A lot of what he tries just does not come off; I think he would really advance in a quality team, but unfortunately he is surrounded by senior shite!

John Davies
174 Posted 07/04/2018 at 22:19:55
Twenty past Ten on Saturday night. Is Allardyce still our manager?

Jim (#158). No need to coach Calvert-Lewin as a winger. He won't make it in that position either. Unfortunately, the lad is not good enough, full stop.

James Stewart
175 Posted 07/04/2018 at 22:30:34
As much as I loathe Allardyce, he can hardly be blamed today. If we had anything like Premier League level strikers, we would have won 2-0. Tosun's miss was woeful and Calvert-Lewin's even more pathetic. The fact that neither even hit the target says it all. Not good enough.
Sam Hoare
176 Posted 07/04/2018 at 22:43:09
Davies is 19. He's already an eng U21 international. He's got genuine heart.

Calvert-Lewin is a only a year or two older and scored the winning goal in a youth World Cup Final. He's also been involved in more goals for us this season than any other player.

Of course there's a chance they won't make it at the highest level but anyone writing these kids off now, at their age, in this team... come on. It's not like we've got better options currently anyway.

Jim Bennings
178 Posted 07/04/2018 at 22:46:48

Spot on!

Any striker worth his salt would have took one of those glorious chances in the last 5 minutes and I'm sorry but I don't buy into the excuses “oh oh but he was rusty he didn't get service all game”.

I'm sorry but that's what you pay £27 million pound for, gamechanging moments like that header from Tosun to be hitting the net instead of going wide.

As for Calvert-Lewin, I've said it before, he's had the best chance possible to make his name in folklore and be a hero and he's completely flunked it, and for me this kid isn't going to cut it at Premier League level.

John Davies
179 Posted 07/04/2018 at 22:49:24
Sam (#176). I take your point, particularly with Tom Davies, but I just don't see Calvert-Lewin having any real quality in what he does and I don't think he'll make the grade. Just my opinion.
Colin Glassar
180 Posted 07/04/2018 at 22:52:03
Thanks, Sam (#176), for a bit of sanity. Pickford, Kenny, Holgate, Calvert-Lewin, Keane, Davies etc... under a modern manager will excel.
Ian Riley
181 Posted 07/04/2018 at 22:52:58
Players too old or not good enough. Mr Allardyce was brought in to leave us in a respectable position. Top ten will do for me. Yes, he is not everyone's cup of tea but we needed him to sort it out. Sadly we just need to be honest that we have a mid table squad and nothing more.
Eddie Dunn
182 Posted 07/04/2018 at 22:58:13
Calvert-Lewin and Davies have two things in common. They both run around a lot and neither of them are Premier League quality.
John G Davies
183 Posted 07/04/2018 at 23:03:35

Good post.
Need to give the young players time to develop.

Andy Crooks
184 Posted 07/04/2018 at 23:19:25
John G, you are spot on about young players being given a chance. They need to be forgiven average performances. Confidence is the make or break of anyone and Tom with the crowd behind him will be top notch.
Mark McDonald
185 Posted 07/04/2018 at 23:21:23
We would be hard pressed to beat Stevie G's U18 youth team never mind their 2nd team.

Oh well, only 5 games to go with only 2 home games left (Newcastle and Southampton). Hopefully we can finish with 2 wins at Goodison. God knows, it has not been a happy place this season.

Hopefully then we start to rebuild for next season with a new manager and squad and playing performances the "Old Lady" and the fans deserve before we move to Bramley-Moore Dock.

Geoff Bull
186 Posted 07/04/2018 at 23:23:09
I have been supporting this club for 58 years; this has to be one of the most boring teams I have seen in a blue shirt.
John G Davies
187 Posted 07/04/2018 at 23:23:30

Spot on. A crowd can make or break a player. Given the space to develop, Tom has got every chance of being a very good player. He has the character and strength of mind to do it.

Andy Crooks
188 Posted 07/04/2018 at 23:24:43
Ian, we didn't need him to sort it out. It was sorted out when we thumped West Ham with the fraudster sat in the stand.

Yeah, I know he thinks it was down to him but what was down to him was Spurs and Arsenal. Cowardly, ugly, depressing, shameful shite.

Ian Riley
189 Posted 07/04/2018 at 23:42:49
Andy (#188), don't kid yourself. The West Ham game could have gone either way. They missed chances and we took ours.

We were shite before Mr Allardyce came in. If was the owner, I would have got Mr Allardyce in. Relegation may have been fought till the end of the season. Top ten means more money. Relegation would have financially not helped and an automatic promotion with our squad would not have been a cert.

If a new manager comes in? They are presented with the same squad and let's see what happens? Interesting how the players like the current manager's coaching methods.

Gavin Johnson
190 Posted 07/04/2018 at 23:47:58
I don't see what purpose bashing young Davies and Calvert-Lewin on this thread serves. Calvert-Lewin should have scored today. He should have done better, but it's no wonder we snap at chances with the massive inferiority complex we've developed this century.

It's funny that a lot of the same people slagging off our best young talent are the same people who'll say give youth a chance on another thread.

Ernie Baywood
191 Posted 08/04/2018 at 00:29:57
Gavin, and so quick to praise youngsters we haven't seen much of. Yet two players who have competed well are written off.

I thought both brought much needed effort to the game. Yes, Davies was poor on the ball but how often were we on the ball as a team? He's got no movement around him, no-one giving him time on the ball. At 19 he's apparently responsible for pressing the opposition, winning the ball, and then being the one who gets us playing football!

It should be the other way around. It should be the experienced players helping him out, not Tom responsible for everything we do.

For all the criticism, he's got a brighter future over the next 5 years than Everton do.

Charlie Lloyd
192 Posted 08/04/2018 at 00:47:47
To all those who want to be negative about Davies and Calvert-Lewin.

Fuckin get a grip of yourselves and start being more positive.

Charlie Lloyd
193 Posted 08/04/2018 at 00:54:00
Davies and Calvert-Lewin. Two decent lads who give a shit. Not always good, I agree, but young uns making their way. The crap I hear on here and at the game about them is just pathetic. Leave them be to develop.

Gordon Crawford
194 Posted 08/04/2018 at 00:58:08
Davies, Calvert-Lewin and Kenny have had been thrown right in at the deep end and are doing more than staying afloat. They haven't let us down anytime they've played.

Yes, they had some bad games but they have never stopped trying. They are young and will get better. But they need leaders around them to help carry their burden and to direct them.

Too much is expected from them. It's the older more experienced players that should be taking the heat – not these young lads.

As for the derby, that was another cowardly performance by the manager and the seasoned pros.

Roman Sidey
195 Posted 08/04/2018 at 01:09:50
Jim Bennings, another way of looking at it is, if we had Lukaku, then we may be a little closer to Liverpool on the table and they might have played a stronger side. Just to be that guy... haha.

I have to agree with most people's views on Calvert-Lewin. He's 21 and still hasn't hit a ball with purpose, hasn't made the right decision on most occasions, and hasn't shown that he can make it at this level. I'd say he's Championship on talent, but League One on guile. This isn't a bash on the player, he is just out of his depth and shouldn't have been bought in the first place. 21 is not a child, and, to be blatantly honest, if you haven't got it at 21, you're not going to get it.

Davies, I'm not so sure about. He's got runs on the board from last season. This season hasn't been great but that can be said of most of the squad. It's up to him to prove it wasn't just the charm of youth.

Anthony Hawkins
196 Posted 08/04/2018 at 02:29:57
I don't get why Niasse, who was regularly scoring goals for us, has disappeared from the fielded team again. He's been great at getting the goals but seems everyone else who doesn't score is favoured again.
Jamie Crowley
197 Posted 08/04/2018 at 04:32:25
Sam @176 -

Spot on. And as Colin @180 says and I agree, under a different manager these kids will excel.

I swear some people on this site would eat their own young.

Pete Clarke
198 Posted 08/04/2018 at 05:48:37
These young players have already made it. They are playing at the highest level in league football at an age where it is beyond most players so I refuse to be overly critical of any of them. They will however only become top quality under the guidance of a good coach.

A good coach will not only bring these youngsters on but probably bring out more in the senior players who have been piss-poor all season. What we saw yesterday was the equivalent of knives to a gunfight when the opposition told us they wouldn't actually bring their guns.

I am tired of calling for this Neanderthal to get out of our club and there has to be something going on for him to still be here. His name alongside ours has tarnished the club and the people in charge do not understand us or don't care.

Ernie Baywood
199 Posted 08/04/2018 at 06:51:59
For 75 minutes it looked like a truce. They knocked the ball about at the back and said "If there's going to be a match, then we're not going to be the ones who instigate it". Our response was that we didn't particularly care either.

As a supporter I'm not sure I felt that much differently. It's hard to care about this current side. It's hard to care about beating your local rivals when both teams couldn't care less about the game. We've been a complete irrelevance for so long and that's not going to change in the last couple of months of the season.

I hope it's not just my age. I hope it's that the club has just lost all identity and connection with its support.

At the moment this feels shit. Even when we were dreadful, I hoped the team could still rise to the occasion every so often.

Jay Woods

200 Posted 08/04/2018 at 07:22:32
Gordon Crawford, what are you talking about?

Calvert-Lewin has let us down. Exhibit A: that miss yesterday against the world's most evil club.

Some of you fellas deserve the shower of crap we have as a team.

Tony Abrahams
201 Posted 08/04/2018 at 07:45:02
Tony Marsh, why do you think it was a hindrance for your kopite mate?
Colin Glassar
202 Posted 08/04/2018 at 07:57:06
Was it Stevie Wonder who sang about our children being the future (in regards to our younger players)? Stevie could spot talent a mile away.
Tony Abrahams
203 Posted 08/04/2018 at 08:00:42
Agreed, Colin; I just wish Stevie Walsh, had the same eye for a footballer.
Tony Everan
204 Posted 08/04/2018 at 08:05:02
Some of our youngsters maybe good quality, but that doesn't cut it at Premier League level. Anything below exceptional quality will be rendered mediocre in the Premier League. Unfortunately, at the moment, that's where we are at.

Who out of them can push on to the next level? Lookman and Onyekuru both seem to have a chance. Davies and Baningime are still 19 so virtually still schoolboys. Davies needs a bit of maturity and positional discipline, it will do wonders for his game. Holgate comes into their bracket too.

Calvert-Lewin needs to get an edge. Needs to be a carnivore... a killer – like Drogba. A loan to a Championship club may toughen him.

These lads must be given more time – even if it means them fighting for a place on the fringes; otherwise, a diamond may slip through our net.

John G Davies
205 Posted 08/04/2018 at 08:35:55
Roman (#195),

He hit one with purpose to win a U20 World Cup Final not so long ago...

Alan J Thompson
206 Posted 08/04/2018 at 09:09:31
I really don't understand slating Davies. Of course he made mistakes but that comes from being involved in everything we do and trying something. Schneiderlin goes from doing nothing to doing next to nothing and some are raving about his improvement, the man is a fraud.

Several times, the hoof upfield did nothing but show that we had nobody near the halfway line, never mind in the opponent's half, and occasionally just the one player on his own trying to out-jump his marker and presumably head it to himself.

At times, we had at least 9 or 10 players defending in our own penalty area and I don't think they had a meeting in the warm-up to decide on that, it was under the manager's direction. When we did move players forward, we almost pinched it and I know how I'd like us to go about it.

Tony Abrahams
207 Posted 08/04/2018 at 09:13:26
I thought we really improved once Calvert-Lewin replaced Bolasie, John G, and I can't believe that Allardyce said that this his was the worst miss in the game!

I sit in the Upper Gwladys, towards the Bullens Road – my eyes are going, I definitely need glasses – but Tosun's was the biggest chance imo.

Davies is 19 years of age, being asked to do the work for others. Sure, he could do more with the ball at his feet sometimes, and if he didn't have to do so much donkey work for the team, then I'm sure his touch, passing and awareness will improve overnight!

Mark Wilson
208 Posted 08/04/2018 at 09:21:40
Charlie (#192), thanks for this short, daft post. It sort of sums up everything... well, a lot, of what's wrong with our club right now.

Negative? This isn't the schoolyard during a lunch-time kick-about or watching youngsters play on Sefton Park some wet Sunday morning in the middle of winter. These are millionaire footballers or well on the way to it, even in their late teens. It is not, repeat not, being negative as you suggest to offer up some reasonable criticism after yet again some of this “talent” demonstrates that they are struggling to match the hype.

Tom Davies is an enthusiastic footballer who arrived and some thought he was Bally. Really? As things stand, what I see with Tom Davies is a guy having a generally poor second season in a terrible squad. I see effort and spirit. But only in a couple of games have I seen real quality. His passing can be woeful. He charges around, a lot, in an ill-disciplined and headless-chicken fashion that seems to win friends on the terraces but actually does little for the team.

Am I writing him off? No, but I'm not being negative either. He's just another product of the academy that sadly looks like he will be a good player in the Championship but never quite really good enough to earn a place driving forward our midfield. I want to be wrong which is why I think a season-long loan to a decent, promotion-pushing Championship club will help him and us. Yesterday, he was mostly angry and full of that spirit, but little else.

Calvert-Lewin? I just see a decent player who will be better in a decent side playing only in one position, No 9, but he will never, ever, score enough goals to keep hold of that place as first choice. Being athletic only gets you so far. His work rate is mixed, his finishing is generally just poor. Again, I'd love to be wrong but I think he will end up in lower leagues doing okay-ish.

As for being negative about the derby. Well, I'm intrigued to read that football games are now 75 mins long, not 90. We were okay for the first 15 mins, then hold-the-line tactics kicked in and for the rest of the first half, we were awful. But gradually, in the second half, against a team who made five changes but would still be too good for most in this league, we got a grip.

Allardyce made subs that changed the game and, in those last 15 mins, we should have scored three times. That we didn't is down to lack of quality and an absolutely disgraceful management transfer policy, led by the pathetic Steve Walsh and the dire Koeman, with help from others along the way.

Five years lost. Half a decade wasted. And now we face at least two, possibly three years to recover unless we face up to the mistakes and clear out. Not easy when you have presided over the biggest single mis-judgement in your club's transfer business, the sale of a 25-goal-a-season forward without any, and I mean any clue as to what to do next.

Amit Vithlani
209 Posted 08/04/2018 at 09:24:52
"21 is not a child, and, to be blatantly honest, if you haven't got it at 21, you're not going to get it."

Well, I would be interested to know how many people would have thought that Jamie Vardy, Ryadh Mahrez, N'Golo Kante and Harry Kane would go on to achieve what they have when those particular players were aged 21???

Eddie Dunn
210 Posted 08/04/2018 at 09:28:25
The people on here getting their knickers in a twist because young Davies and Calvert-Lewin are criticised should consider the moments in many games when, under no great pressure, Davies has underhit or overhit his pass, wrecking a simple opening on goal and providing the opposition with a chance to counter. His poor passing is an indicator that he is not good enough.

He is game, has bags of energy and enthusiasm, and perhaps he will improve to the standard we need, but at present we need better.

Calvert-Lewin scored in a U20 World Cup Final against his own age group – so get real. The lad put himself about on the left and showed-up Bolasie for his poor work, but Calvert-Lewin has regularly failed to pass accurately or shoot on target when in on goal. His decision to go for a top corner curler instead of placing it either side of the keeper showed his technique and decision-making is flawed.

It is no good defending these lads – if they are good enough to get on the pitch, then they have to be criticised like anyone else. Just because Davies is one of our own, and Calvert-Lewin is young is not enough if we want to improve.

Niasse has more goals than Calvert-Lewin and had to sit it out – so where is the fairness there?

I would love the two of them to make it, and they have made it, to play in the Premier League already, but they are costing us – just like Rooney – and sentiment can't get in the way or you lose.

Amit Vithlani
211 Posted 08/04/2018 at 09:34:42
Calvert-Lewin is joint top in goals and assists with Rooney – 14. I'd say the lad has made a pretty decent contribution considering that he has played so many different positions – right wingback, right wing, left wing, and as a target man.

He has had a horribly long season and featured in so many games, stretching back to the U20 World Cup. What is more, he was asked to lead the line when we had no genuine centre-forward and were getting our arses handed to us in the early part of the season.

Is a bit context completely out of the question when assessing our young players?

Pete Clarke
212 Posted 08/04/2018 at 09:39:40
Can anybody name a player who was mature and dominant in midfield at 19 years of age?

The only one I can think of is Norman Whiteside, so expecting Tom Davies to be all of this while having to cover the back of senior citizens and overpaid foreigners is a bit over the top.

Like I said in an earlier post, Tom could be our new Bracewell or even Reid but he needs one or the other types next to him. More than anything, though, is the need for an intelligent coach who can remove the fear from the players and give them a winning mentality and game plan.

I just wish Moshiri would put us out of this misery of having that overpaid prehistoric man in charge of the team.

Dick Fearon
213 Posted 08/04/2018 at 09:46:56
The best thing to happen for Calvert-Lewin and Everton would be to farm him out for a season in the Championship.
Ian Bennett
214 Posted 08/04/2018 at 09:58:37
A season on loan in the championship is exactly what Calvert-Lewin needs. At that level, he'd play every week, and could target 20-25 goals. He needs that as he's flakey in front of goal whilst he's playing as sub, not at all, or getting the odd start.

He's a decent lad, but really needs time to find his finishing boots.

Chris Gould
215 Posted 08/04/2018 at 10:00:22
It's really a question of whether we're prepared to be a development club or whether we want a team who can push for the top 4 (not 6!).

Whilst developing kids, we are missing out on filling their positions with proven quality. The top clubs buy the finished articles and rarely play the kids. Obviously we aren't a top club, but we should start behaving like one if we have any real ambition of becoming one.

I would rather we tied some of the youngsters down on long contracts and sent them on loan until they were 22-23 and physically and mentally ready. At this point, we could assess whether they're ever going to be good enough for a team with Champions League ambition or not.

Davies and Calvert-Lewin show real potential but I'm not sure either of them would get into any of the teams in the top half of the table. I want us to move on every player who wouldn't at least threaten the top 6's subs benches. Right now that's a lot of players and it needs to be done over a few windows, but the youngsters are an easy fix. Just send them out on loan until they are better than anyone that we could realistically buy.

Dermot Byrne
216 Posted 08/04/2018 at 10:01:54
Paul Gascoigne?
John G Davies
217 Posted 08/04/2018 at 10:02:17
Tony Abrahams,

I agree, we did look better once the switch was made. I would have started Dominic on the left. But the manager's negative tactics of tucking the full backs in narrow and asking Walcott and Bolasie to defend ruled that out.

Tom gets a hard time off some of our fans... in my opinion, it is way out of order.

Mike Connolly
218 Posted 08/04/2018 at 10:11:37
Spot on, Chris (#215).
Grant Rorrison
219 Posted 08/04/2018 at 10:12:33
I can't believe the amount of criticism on here. Liverpool are clearly a far better side than we are and this was the right approach to the game. It would have produced all three points but for the shocking finishing of Tosun (who Allardyce didn't want) and Calvert-Lewin, who is never a Premier League footballer anyway.

People want to make their minds up what it is they want. We had a clown trying to go toe-to-toe with the big clubs and it ended in disaster. We are a small club with largely talentless and mentally inferior players. Deal with it.

I'd be happy to see Big Sam stay next season. 7th or 8th place is pretty much guaranteed if he does.

Sam Hoare
220 Posted 08/04/2018 at 10:14:57
Chris @215,

Proven quality like who? Schneiderlin? Bolasie? Williams? Keane? Sigurdsson? Klaassen? Rooney?

The club has tried to buy proven quality over the last few years at considerable expense and it has not worked. Yes, it could be said that poor decisions have been made but it's certainly not a simple matter.

Most players who are capable of catapulting us into top 4 want to play at top 4 clubs! I'd say one of our best and possibly only chances of gatecrashing top 4 is to develop young players with potential. To build a team around some young talent and hope we can get them to stay together; much in the way Spurs have done with Alli, Kane, Eriksen, Dier etc.

I'm not saying only academy players. I think taking shots on the likes of Lookman and Onyekuru is our best shot. One of the few things we can offer compared to the top 4 is minutes on the pitch for talented youngsters with rough edges. That is how we got Stones and Lukaku, two of our best (and most profitable) transfers in recent years.

So yes, we should be a development team in some ways. Not just youngsters of course. Some well chosen pros must be added as well (Spurs bought Dembele, Vertonghen, Lloris etc).

It will take time and patience but this I presume is ‘the project' of which the board have spoken; 2 years in and it's mainly gone backwards so far.

Ray Roche
221 Posted 08/04/2018 at 10:16:31
Eddie Dunn (#210),

"Niasse has more goals than Calvert-Lewin and had to sit it out – so where is the fairness there?"

Eddie, Calvert-Lewin was brought on for a specific purpose, to add some pace, work-rate and also attacking intent down the left when he replaced the ineffective and tiring Bolasie.

Niasse would have done his headless-chicken routine and chased every ball with little end product. I am aware that he has scored this season but he would not have done a job on the left that Calvert-Lewin can. Actually, the commentator said that Calvert-Lewin is "Everton's best player today, and he's only been on five minutes".

Calvert-Lewin and Davies will, I believe, become good players given a decent coach or manager and the time to develop.

Jay Woods

222 Posted 08/04/2018 at 10:19:28
Our problem is that we need finished articles now, not in 3-5 years' time. All this talk of developing Calvert-Lewin and Davies glosses over that important point.
Dermot Byrne
223 Posted 08/04/2018 at 10:21:14
Swansea, Newcastle, Huddersfield. I see a golden dawn!
Dave Ganley
224 Posted 08/04/2018 at 10:40:06

Have you actually watched the football this season?

Kevin Tully
225 Posted 08/04/2018 at 10:40:52
I'll say it again, how can a club the size of Everton not find a great player in 25 years? Incredible. Barring Rooney, who Kenwright couldn't wait to sell, despite putting his mum on the phone to Alex Ferguson, we are ran like a 1980s tribute act.

People who knew more than me how the club was being held back shouted from the rooftops how poisonous Kenwright was behind the scenes, but they were told to put up and shut up because "he was one of us." He's pocketed 㿚m 㿄M after bumming his shares off the odious Green, but good Evertonians were told to be quiet when they questioned how the club was ran.

Moshiri is now taking flak after paying off all of Kenwright's leveraged debt. I'm sorry, but long-term Blues who are now popping up everywhere calling out the leadership have absolutely no credibility as far as I'm concerned. The damage has been done. Moshiri doesn't have enough money to fix it. We are firmly mid-table dross.

Selling Lukaku and making Rooney our highest-paid player ever sums the club up.

We can't say we were not warned.

Kevin Prytherch
226 Posted 08/04/2018 at 10:59:32
Reading these comments, we get exactly what we deserve.

I used to think Everton fans were superior to Liverpool fans, we could talk about football and weren't just glory hunters. But reading these, we get what we deserve – nothing.

It's no wonder Lukaku, Stones and Barkley couldn't wait to leave. I'm surprised Coleman stayed... after all, he was never going to be Premier League class.

If some of the fans on here get their way, we'll have a team full of Schneiderlins. How did we get so short term? Fix it now.
We tried that in the summer – it worked, didn't it?

Pete Clarke
227 Posted 08/04/2018 at 11:02:19
If any one of us seriously thinks that we will somehow fill the team with finished articles, then they need their head testing. This would take the spending ability of Abramovich and the manager ability of Pep.

When we go out and spend £40 plus million on Sigurdsson (who I like) then how much for a full team? Getting top-notch players to come to Everton will only happen if we offer unrivalled money and the top coach in charge – and probably at the new stadium.

How about we start with a new manager and take it from there... because, whilst we are all offering insights as to what we think is best and who is shit and not shit, we are letting the main problem slip from our focal point and there's no guarantee that's going to change.

Man City spent fortunes and changed managers a few times before they got it right. Most of the players there would not want to be in Manchester without the millions and most of them were mercenaries and rubbish at that.

It's been bad enough watching the likes of Schneiderlin, Niasse, Klaassen and Williams so give me some young lads anyday over these until we at least find our feet.

Anthony Murphy
228 Posted 08/04/2018 at 11:02:29
Judging Davies and Calvert-Lewin to be not good enough may be a little premature as this season has made everyone look poor. We need to see how things pan out next season. Let's hold writing off any youngsters or new signings (Keane, Vlasic etc) until they have had a chance to gel with a new manager.
Alan McGuffog
229 Posted 08/04/2018 at 11:03:41
Kevin, you answer your own question in your first paragraph. We are not a club the size of Everton anymore!
Dave Ganley
230 Posted 08/04/2018 at 11:07:14
Think some of you miss the point with Everton fans. We don't get what we deserve, that's just ridiculous.

You compare the RS to us? How many of those idiots would still be packing the stadium week after week if they had the barren run we've had and they had to witness the shite that we've had to witness? We are some of the most loyal fans around, we turn up and still support our team in spite of everything.

Have a go at the club by all means but don't go making fuckwit statement about the fans just because we make statements through sheer frustration. We love the club which is why we're all on here. RS fans are such pampered wankers full of tourists so don't even think of coming on here to try and say they're better than us. They'd have shrunk back in the closet years ago if they had to tolerate the football we do.

Rick Tarleton
231 Posted 08/04/2018 at 11:19:41
Pete Clarke (#212), I suspect you're quite young or you'd know about Alan Ball at Blackpool, Colin Harvey at Everton, Howard Kendall at Preston – all marvellous midfielders in their teens. Then there was the great Duncan Edwards and, of course, Ray Wilkins was Chelsea captain at 18.
Chris Gould
232 Posted 08/04/2018 at 11:22:35
Sam (#220),

There's no doubt that we have bought poorly but, maybe with an experienced Director of Football and a manager with a real eye for talent, we can correct that? We need to be targetting players in the 23- to 27-year-old bracket.

Tottenham have done very well with the players you mentioned but, aside from Alli, they weren't playing regularly for Spurs at 19 or 20. Just an extra couple of seasons elsewhere can make a huge difference.

We can develop the youngsters with genuine potential by sending them on loan and monitoring them carefully. In the meantime, we should be looking for players that will improve us instantly.

I don't see Calvert-Lewin and Davies as a potential Kane and Alli. It's all very well saying we should develop youth like Tottenham, but I don't believe we have youngsters who will become top class like those two.

So, in the meantime, whilst developing and hoping for a breakthrough, I would rather we bought some quality. And, yes, I of course take your point that there are no guarantees with any player we buy.

I like Calvert-Lewin and Davies. They seem like decent kids who have a great attitude. I prefer to see them on the pitch than either Bolasie or Rooney, but I would rather see a fit, mobile midfielder who could actually pass, and a left winger who was actually a left winger (not Calvert-Lewin's fault).

If we continue to play senior players past their best alongside kids who are not yet at their best, then we have a whole team of players who aren't at their best!!! That's a big problem for me.

In saying all that, maybe it's too many players past their best as opposed to the few that aren't yet at their best that's the real problem.

The point is, too many are not in their prime and at their best, and too many are slow and ponderous... and too many can't pass accurately!!!

Shit, certainly no quick fix.

Grant Rorrison
233 Posted 08/04/2018 at 11:29:38
Dave (#224). I have and I've enjoyed it immensely. The return to the more pragmatic, defensively organised approach that we all so much prefer. The abandonment of crazy notions likes going over the half way line, attacking the opposition goal and trying to score. It's like we've turned the clock back to the great days of the Moyesiah. To top it off we could yet finish 8th. Ample and just reward for everybody's efforts. Marvellous.
Ray Roche
234 Posted 08/04/2018 at 11:40:10
Rick (#231).

Do you think that the game has changed since then? If every 19-year-old who shows promise actually realised that promise, there'd be no foreign legion of players in the Premier League. We would all have wonderful homegrown talent from the Academies.

Naming a few of the all-time greats only clouds the issue. We could name hundreds more who didn't make it, despite showing extraordinary talent as youths. Remember Peter Marinello? The next George Best?

Roger Helm
235 Posted 08/04/2018 at 11:58:21
Grant, you and many others slag off Moyes, but I beg to differ. It is true things got stale and unpleasant towards the end, but he made us respectable top 6-7 finishers, from being perennial relegation candidates, got us in the Champions League, and brought in players like Cahill, Lescott, Baines, Fellaini, Coleman, Arteta, Pienaar, Jagielka, Distin etc, all on a very limited budget.

The reason we didn't make the final breakthrough was that the club could not afford a world-class goalscoring forward. We haven't had as good a manager since then. I wouldn't want him back, as comebacks in sport rarely work, as we are seeing now with Rooney, but give the man his due.

Kevin Tully
236 Posted 08/04/2018 at 12:18:41
Roger, for balance, he also bought Beattie, Davies, Bilyaletdinov, Koldrup, Andy Johnson, Van der Meyde and numerous other duds. Admittedly, he made some good signings, but he didn't exactly find any world beaters.

We have a tendency to massively overrate anything in blue. We've won nothing for 23 yeas, so we can't be signing great players, can we?

Pete Clarke
237 Posted 08/04/2018 at 12:19:48

At 54, I no longer consider myself young and even referring to Whiteside should have told you that. I do remember Alan Ball getting stick at Goodison once or twice so we can all be fickle, I suppose. Paul Bracewell was a regular in Stoke's team at 18 but was not dominant.

I was actually referring to earlier posters saying that Tom does not dominate the midfield... to which my response was that the only one I knew who actually dominated midfield at a tender age was Whiteside, who didn't need a great player next to him to do so.

I like Tom and possibly give him more leeway because of his background. He may or may not be in any future manager's plans once they see him but I certainly hope so because to have no local lads in the team is sacrilege to me.

Kev Wood
238 Posted 08/04/2018 at 12:28:26
I'm looking forward to the final whistle at West Ham away on Sunday 13th May. It's been a soul-destroying season in so many ways, when most of us probably imagined that things would be very different.

We had a major clearout during the summer and significant investment in the squad. After our second game, a 1-1 draw, away at Man City (that we possibly should have won), I was optimistic about what lay ahead, provided we could get through a run of very testing September fixtures. (I was laughing inwardly as the only Evertonian amongst a trainful of miserable Man City fans on the way to Macclesfield...)

We didn't, conceding 12 goals without reply in the next four matches. It's been a very rocky road from then on. Koeman was a rude clueless bully and is gone and unlamented (only to be replaced by Sam and Sammy).

Worst case scenarios for the coming 2018-19 season would be for the Board to stick with Sam the Survivalist; allow him to bring in players that suit his boneheaded defensiveness; allow Sam to squander and destroy young homegrown talent; crawl towards 8th position without cup success; and then replace Sam in Summer 2019.

Another worrying possibility would be to launch into another wholesale clearout (especially in a World Cup summer), resulting in another new squad who don't know each other and no direction during the early part of the season.

My best-case scenario would be for Sam to stay until the final whistle at West Ham (with a new manager lined up for an immediate start); a full pre-season; an attacking midfielder (who is also up for any fight that comes his way); and a culling of Williams, Martina, Mirallas and Schneiderlin (I'd continue to work with the rest of the current squad with gradual rather than immediate improvements).

Overall, I think the route to the sort of squad that we aspire to will be a slow one and I expect lots more disappointment (and plenty of thrills) along the way. That's not to say I want it, of course – I'm just being realistic here.

As for yesterday, I was surprised that there was such a shortage of passion and fire but, under the circumstances, I'll take a draw rather than a death or glory defeat.

Tosun was very much in Van Dijk's pocket and I would have expected more fireworks from him. He certainly isn't the new Duncan Ferguson (Van Dijk would be one of quite a number of opponents I would have had a go at if I'd been in our Blue shirt – then again, I'd probably be our player with the most sendings-off).

Bolasie looks like a player who is afraid of another major knock and he certainly did not put in a shift (although his shot was impressive). Schneiderlin always looks like an extra floating man and never seems to get close to opponents. Although he did make a couple of important tackles yesterday, he is very much the mercenary.

Finally, I dread to think what it would look like on here if they had nicked a late goal and beaten us.

Don Alexander
239 Posted 08/04/2018 at 12:37:23
And the sad reality, Kevin (#236), as you've previously alluded to, is that Mr Moshiri has nowhere near enough money to buy the ready-made article that Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea readily snap up, in numbers.

Unless the changes at the top are a drastic improvement, since Moyes left, my worst-case scenario is obviously relegation. My best is that we might return not to the "heights" of sneaking 4th place, no way, but to the desperation of sneaking 7th at best given the way Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs are funded and staffed.

It's that depressing but, as you and others say, getting a squad with the right attitude and work ethic can work wonders, as Leicester proved.

Tony Heron
240 Posted 08/04/2018 at 12:57:20
Just a thought: Calvert-Lewin is a young lad still trying to make his way in the Premier League. He fails to take a good chance for a team for whom chances are about as rare as caring Tories.

Then there is Sterling, a so-called International, 㿞M player in a team of megastars who can cut through teams at will and provide more chances in a game than we produce in a season. Just saying.

Ernie Baywood
241 Posted 08/04/2018 at 12:58:58
Calvert-Lewin needs to improve his finishing. It doesn't take a genius to work that out.

The best place for that isn't this current Everton team. One chance every few weeks isn't what he needs. One chance where he'll be slated for missing our best opportunity isn't right for a young man learning his trade.

For me, he needs a spell out on loan. Total credit to him for managing to contribute in this utterly shite season.

Jimmy Salt
242 Posted 08/04/2018 at 13:01:31
Hmmmm.... we never got beaten.

I was hoping for pictures and updates on the stadium as well.

Dave Ganley
243 Posted 08/04/2018 at 13:02:23
Roger, I totally agree with you. Moyes gave us probably the best team we've had in the late 2000s since the mid 80s. As we all know, Moyes's biggest problem was he just didn't have the belief that we could go away in the big games and win. Fiorentina and RS at Wembley being the prime examples.

Anybody who was at GP against Fiorentina will still be scratching their heads at how we lost that tie. We absolutely tore them a new one and did all but score a 3rd goal. However, we lost that tie in the first leg by not having the belief. Same at Wembley. We were better than RS but 2nd half we stopped playing. No belief we could finish the job.

That was why we needed another manager to take us forward... and instead we got Martinez. And before anybody cries about his 5th place, it was relatively easy to take a well-oiled machine and give them some freedom. We soon found out how good he was when he put his stamp on the team. Now we are still in the mess Martinez put us in.

It's easy to slag Moyes off but we never had a toxic atmosphere at Goodison Park under him and we always gave it a go for most part. Alex Ferguson hated coming here with his all-conquering side because he knew he would get a battle.

Kevin, Moyes was with us for a long time so he was bound to have dud signings but he had some great signings too with limited funds and you wouldn't have seen the capitulation we see now with his sides. As I said, he just never had the belief that we could go away and sort out teams the way we did at Goodison Park. If he did, then we could easily have won something. We should have won something – especially the Europa League that season.

But let's not rewrite history and say it was a good team because it was. Arteta, Pienaar Baines, Jagielka, Lescott, Yakubu – for a time all in their pomp, was a good team to watch and we scored a lot of goals. Moyes made a good team but conversely held us back by lack of belief.

Steve Brown
244 Posted 08/04/2018 at 13:02:51
Man City hired Ericsson, Hughes, Mancini and Pelligrini before securing Pep. They also spent a bomb on some complete duds - Robinho, Jo, Jovetic, Mangala, Adebayour, Roque Santa Cruz, Rodwell, Sinclair, Negredo, Bony, Elano, Geovanni, Bellamey, Bridges, Nolito are just a few off the top of my head. But they learned and progressed step by step.

Don is right – does Moshiri have the money to learn and progress in the same way? I always dream that he has only bought 49.9% of the shares so that Usmanov can purchase the majority.

But I would contend that Liverpool and Spurs are not richer than us – they are very well run, with a great recruitment policy and top managers. So let's start there with a top manager and proven director of football.

John Charles
245 Posted 08/04/2018 at 13:06:27
The lack of passion on the pitch and in the stands was completely expected. The Red Shite have other things to worry about and Fat Sam has drained all spirit from the club. Sat in the Park End, it was noticeable that everyone was just wanting to get through the game unscathed.

However, I thought there were some positives – Keane and Jagielka were decent; Tosun put in a shift; Coleman was okay; Schneiderlin (who I despise) was better.

Some serious negatives though – Bolasie is appalling; Calvert-Lewin puts himself about but that's all, and Tom Davies, whilst trying, always seems to make the wrong decision. And poor old Wayne (who I like) is just gone.

Fat Sam set us up to draw against a team knackered, with many second stringers and both eyes on Tuesday. This is the biggest negative.

Tony Dove
246 Posted 08/04/2018 at 13:28:22
A certain Mr Barkley might be going for a decent price this summer?
Terry McLavey
247 Posted 08/04/2018 at 13:45:58
On the upside, at least we caused Liverpool to be last on MotD!
Dave Abrahams
248 Posted 08/04/2018 at 13:49:14
Kev (#238), a very good post. I think it paints a true picture of this season and how we are in regards to the immediate future. I hope the future pans out the way you see it, it's not all doom and gloom.
Anthony Murphy
249 Posted 08/04/2018 at 14:01:32
Dave Ganley (#243),

Great post. I will add that, for all his faults, Moyes would have put us out to get stuck in properly yesterday.

I was sitting in the Upper Bullens for that Fiorentina match – we're a long way away from that at the moment sadly, but like you, I wouldn't want to see Moyes back. Just pisses me off what short memories some have – especially watching the absolute dogshit we are served up now.

David Hallwood
250 Posted 08/04/2018 at 14:14:27
A lot has been said about Ray Wilkins this week – and rightly so, but there was a time when he was playing for England that he put in Schneiderlin-esque performances and was nicknamed 'The Crab' by the tabloids; supporters of a certain vintage may remember that.

But I remember Wilkins giving one of the best performances in midfield I've ever seen against us when he was with QPR when he sat in front of the back four, Pirlo like, or even quarterback like and pinged balls all round the park. Remember, this was the era of 4-4-2, and box-to-box midfielders, but Wilkins had two players who were his legs, and they were playing a then, unfashionable, 3 in midfield. Ironically enough Sammy Lee did the same thing 4-5 seasons later with the same club.

This to my mind is how we should play with Rooney; get him to sit in front of the back 4 and have Davies & Gana as his legs. Currently, he's too exposed because his legs have gone and we should either say his time's up or alter our shape accordingly.

Before TWebbers all say "Get shut", just a thought. One of the criticisms levelled at us is that we have no shape, personality or footballing philosophy; this would give us one, as Rooney who has a fantastic variety of passing (obviously when not under so much pressure) could supply Walcott & Bolasie. I must admit to being underwhelmed by Bolasie even before his injury, but I like him & Theo even less playing as left & right back.

We need to get up the field more, one of the things that's been apparent all season is that we haven't got a midfielder that can run with the ball and the lines are so far apart that the passing has got to be spot on, and thinking back to that Wilkins performance all those years ago, Rooney is more than capable of filling the role.

Tony Abrahams
251 Posted 08/04/2018 at 14:27:19
I was thinking about that performance during yesterday's minutes applause, David, in a game where I'm sure Les Ferdinand scored three against us.

Wilkins was called The Crab, some might say he was ahead of his time but it was a specialist position that he played all his life, same with Pirlo, never about pace, more about knowing the game and, just as importantly, the pitch.

Rooney was a great; Rooney could do anything but he's definitely a player who operated best at the top end of the pitch, and although he had eyes in the back of his head, this quarter-back role takes years to learn and it's not really a position for a team who isolate their centre-forward.

Jay Wood

252 Posted 08/04/2018 at 15:03:28
Re: the Calvert-Lewin bashing by Jim Bennings and Roman Sidey.

Dominc Calvert-Lewin is clearly highly regarded at Everton. Even last season under Koeman, he was frequently selected for the match day squad ahead of the likes of Mirallas and Valencia, even though he was only 19.

This season – just last month he turned 21 – he was a virtual ever-present up to the New Year. He was clearly showing signs of burn out and the signings of Tosun and Walcott have seen him starting less.

But, even in this hapless season, Calvert-Lewin to date has contribute 8 goals and 7 assists across all competitions. Taken together, that is better than any other player in the squad.

He has excellent movement, showing, chasing and harrying for the ball across the width of the park. He has excellent control plus the ability to shield the ball well, Sharpesque-like. He is a good header of the ball. He has shown time and again he can take on and beat a man in tight quarters, with good pace to carry him away from chasing defenders.

For someone of seemingly slight build, he handles the physical aspect of the game very well. He also displays canny game craft, as witnessed by his winning of penalties vs Liverpool and Brighton and in seeing Kyle Walker sent off at Man City.

More than anything else, he needs to sharpen his finishing skills, but again, he has already demonstrated a cool head and clean finishing. But he unquestionably needs to raise his consistency levels in this area.

Before condemning him as a Championship or League One level player at best, how about a like-for-like comparison to England's current golden boy, Harry Kane, at the same age?

As an 18-year-old, Calvert-Lewin scored 8 goals in 26 appearances on loan at Northampton. At the same age, Harry Kane scored 5 in 18 on loan at Leyton Orient.

At 19 Kane scored 9 in 27 on loan at Milwall in the Championship. At the same age, Calvert-Lewin was playing exclusively for Everton in the Premier League, scoring 1 in 11 (mostly as a sub).

At the age Calvert-Lewin is now, Harry Kane was loaned out to both Norwich (Premier League) and Leicester (Championship) scoring 3 goals in 20 appearances all up.

Kane was a barely used squad player on his return to Spurs for a season or two. His breakthrough year came in 2014-15 when he was 21, going on 22, scoring 25 in 38 Premier League appearances.

Internationally, Kane scored 6 in 14 for England U-19s, 1 in 3 for the U-20s, 8 in 14 for the U-21s. And he flopped at the Euro U-21s when England were eliminated at the group stage and flopped again for the seniors at the Euros in France.

Dom has 6 in 14 for the U-20s and won England the World Cup last summer. He is currently 2 in 7 at U-21s.

So in conclusion, the likes of Jim and Roman are talking some reet bollocks with regard to Calvert-Lewin.

We have a wonderful talent on our books. He strikes me as a serious dedicated professional, intent on going all the way.

Nurture him, don't neuter him.

George Cumiskey
253 Posted 08/04/2018 at 15:06:30
David @ 250,

I was at that game when Wilkins came with QPR, he was fantastic – completely ran the show, we couldn't get near him.

He was a bit crab like before he went to Italy, but he came back a completely different player.

Don Alexander
254 Posted 08/04/2018 at 15:10:35
Excellent point Tony. Re-signing Rooney was Kenwright to a T; sentimental, debilitating to the squad, and BVI-like expensive. He was and is past it, on ٦million per annum until the end of next season.

A medical should surely have shown his inability, for whatever reason, to play for 90 minutes to anything like the standard required of a midfielder. He's not a patch on the older Gareth Barry but his salary must make other, fit (okay, that's not all of them!) members of the squad really pissed off.

Role model? Yeah, right! And yes, he's scored a few, but playing where he is now shows him straying all over the place, constantly losing the ball in very dangerous situations, and getting nowhere near just about anyone with pace running past him, with the same consequence. Other teams must relish seeing his name in our midfield.

Soren Moyer
255 Posted 08/04/2018 at 15:38:54
We were lucky to get a draw. If the Red Shite had taken their chances in the first half, there was no way we could get a point out of the game. Fat Sam out. And a major clearout is needed during the summer break.
Dave Ganley
256 Posted 08/04/2018 at 15:40:28
True enough, Don. I think Rooney should just be an impact player, nothing more. Against the better teams, the game just bypasses him. Sad to see really but, as you and Tony say, he should never have been signed in the first place.

Somebody earlier made the point that he's just about the same age as Silva and the contrast couldn't be greater. Silva is still top quality through looking after himself. He is the one player I always look forward to seeing when Man City play us. The same just can't be said of Rooney.

Steve Carse
257 Posted 08/04/2018 at 15:58:20
Soren (255), your attitude and reflections mirror the mentality of the Club! No, we weren't lucky. There were two very average sides out there yesterday. Neither did enough to have won it.
Soren Moyer
258 Posted 08/04/2018 at 16:06:21
How is that the reflection of the club's mentality? They might be happy with it. I am not.
Mike Powell
259 Posted 08/04/2018 at 16:10:03
We were very poor for most of the game; played well for the last 10 mins... so not good enough again.

I have been saying all season that Calvert-Lewin is not good enough – he is a Championship player at best. Rooney needs to move to China or retire, it's getting embarrassing for him now.

Schneiderlin, who I have slated all season, was one of our better players along with Jagielka and Coleman. We were a lot better when Rooney went off.

Eric Paul
260 Posted 08/04/2018 at 16:11:40
Jay @252

Spot on, I also think he will go all the way. I enjoyed the way he easily took the ball off and outmuscled the England captain yesterday.

Talking of finishing – is Sterling a Championship player?

Johan Elmgren
262 Posted 08/04/2018 at 16:35:29
I think people writing the likes of Davies and Calvert-Lewin off already are making huge mistakes... Saying "he will never be..." bla, bla, bla..., I mean, come on... history shows plenty of examples of players blooming later (if you can call 24-25 late). The great Swede Henrik Larsson for example was quite a late bloomer, but ended up playing for Barcelona and Manchester Utd...

Players develop differently, most reach their peak at around 28 so to write these two youngsters off already is completely wrong IMHO.

If memory serves me correctly, a certain Harry Kane wasn't considered a top prospect either when he was 21, was he?

Have some patience folks...

One who reached his peak years ago, mid 90s, is Allardyce... We don't need to show any more patience with him, it's clear he won't develop anymore...

Hence, Allardyce out now!!!

Tony Abrahams
263 Posted 08/04/2018 at 16:47:49
I'm backing Sterling to 𝐒𝐜o𝐫𝐞 the first goal on Tuesday, Eric, because he owes everyone big time after the chances he missed yesterday.

Football will never change, it will always be about putting the ball in the back of the net, and this is the reason Pogba was the most influential player on the pitch during the Manchester derby yesterday.

I watched the first half yesterday, and Sterling was unplayable until he got a chance to score, so I'm just praying he plays the same way on Tuesday, but finds the end product to compliment his fantastic approach play.

Johan Elmgren
264 Posted 08/04/2018 at 16:49:08
Just saw your post, Jay (#252), and your comparison to Kane... Lightyears better than mine. :-)

Good post!

Allardyce out now!!

David Booth
265 Posted 08/04/2018 at 16:51:24
Has everyone woken up to that fact now that as soon as Rooney is subbed, we become a different team?

And has it dawned that we have got the Rooney that Manchester United have been desperate to get rid of for the last few years – not the one we were desperate to keep many years beforehand?

The biggest (no pun intended) waste of space in a team that has more than enough candidates vying for that title. Playing only because his name is Wayne Rooney.

In the one game where all his pre-season admirers crowed that he would show his value, he was off the pace, inept in his new-found position (having been reshuffled again recently in a bid to find somewhere he is any good) and had no impact whatsoever against a half-strength team just going through the motions ahead of their so-called Champions League fixture next Tuesday.

Inspiration? Leader? Game changer? Threat? On-field captain? My arse!

Off the bench for the last 10 minutes if we need him. Otherwise, keep him off the pitch!

Eric Paul
266 Posted 08/04/2018 at 16:54:12
I hope you collect, Tony, and he goes on to get a hat-trick.
Will Mabon
267 Posted 08/04/2018 at 18:11:30
Bring back Unsworth.
Michael Kenrick
268 Posted 08/04/2018 at 18:20:37
Steve Brown, I think you may be suffering delusions:

"I always dream that he has only bought 49.9% of the shares so that Usmanov can purchase the majority." – Not gonna happen... cannot happen. 29% of the shares are owned by people who are not on the Board and not named Farhad Moshiri. And 4% of those are untraceable, according to Elstone.

"But I would contend that Liverpool and Spurs are not richer than us" – not richer in conventional money terms? ... No way! Check the numerous posts pointing out how far behind we are in terms of money, income, revenue – whatever financial metric you choose.

John G Davies
269 Posted 08/04/2018 at 18:37:54

I can't see it because I can see them scoring. Probably with a generous penalty. But you never know.

Can Man City beat them 3-0? I fuckin hope so.

Roger Helm
270 Posted 08/04/2018 at 18:39:26
Great post, Jay (#252) – those stats are really telling. Footballers vary so much in their development. Some don't come good until late in their career, like Vardy. Some look brilliant prospects in their teens but never quite make the step up, like quite a few we have had.

How many are the finished product in their teens and go on to have a top career? The likes of Rooney and Whiteside are very few and far between. It is far too soon to write off Tom and Dom.

Eddie Dunn
273 Posted 08/04/2018 at 20:11:22
Consider our starting 11 yesterday and tell me who would get in the Leicester City team, or Burnley?
This should make us all realise just how ordinary we are, from old Wayne to young Tom. Even Pickford would struggle to be picked ahead of Pope or Schmiechel.
Bill Gienapp
274 Posted 08/04/2018 at 21:06:06
Eddie - given that Burnley snapped up Aaron Lennon off our bench and immediately made him a starter, I'd say the answer is "more than you think."
Eric Paul
275 Posted 08/04/2018 at 21:29:30
With the exception of the fella from diversity and mane who out of the shites starting 11 would you have
Andy Crooks
276 Posted 08/04/2018 at 21:35:09
Jay, 252, another fine post. You are a good commentator on threads but how about putting up an article on your views for next season?
Jay Wood

277 Posted 08/04/2018 at 22:50:40
Andy @ 276. Kind words. Thank you.

In brief, it's very easy: get Everton our 'Pochettino' and follow the Spurs model. Who that is, I have no idea.

As I've previously posted, I would also like to see us recruit Nicola Cortese the former CEO at Southampton in place of Robert Elstone.

With Cortese and 'our Pochettino' in place (together with Brands in place of Walsh...?) I don't share the belief of some on here that the last couple of seasons have set us back years. Things can turn around very quickly, exactly as Spurs are showing.

Spurs had the dodge pot Harry Redknapp for 4 years, followed by just over a season with Andre Vilas-Boas. Both managed Gareth Bale who was sold to Real Madrid in 2013. Just as we did with the sale of Lukaku, Spurs blew that money.

Just as we did when Koeman was sacked and briefly appointed Unsworth, Spurs replaced AVB internally with Tim Sherwood who 'did OK', but the board recognized his limitations and hired Pochettino from Southampton (who, BTW, was recruited by Cortese whilst at the Saints).

Pochettino quickly transformed Spurs on ALL fronts. Since arriving at Spurs they have finished 5th, 3rd and 2nd in the PL. They are nailed on to be at least 4th this season, possibly higher.

Contrary again to the view of some on here re: combining European football and still remaining competitive in the PL, Pochettino has achieved that.

Spurs had a tremendous CL campaign, drawing in Madrid and beating the reigning champions at home, beating Dortmund home and away to top a really difficult group. But for 5 stupid minutes, they should have got past Juventus in the last 16 also.

Everton HAS to be like that leading pack and learn to combine a full league season with the demands of European football and seek to qualify for Europe year on year. Anything less will see us cut further adrift than we already are. I don't expect us to achieve that in one giant leap, but rather - as Spurs have done - by year on year incremental improvement.

Spurs are also in the semi-final of the FA Cup. This has all been achieved with a mix of promoting good youth players within the club and much improved recruitment at reasonable prices.

The on-pitch improvement has not come at the cost of improving their stadium (or vice-versa) as from next season they will be playing in what could possibly be the finest modern stadium in the country.

So I see many direct parallels between Spurs and Everton.

Just find us our 'Pochettino.' Simples!

Anthony Murphy
278 Posted 08/04/2018 at 23:10:30
Jay, agree. They also have Daniel Levy who seems like one shrewd f*cker
Stephen Brown
279 Posted 08/04/2018 at 23:14:24
Amen to Jay's post ! Quality!
Ray Roche
280 Posted 08/04/2018 at 23:17:51
Anthony, he's so shrewd he pays himself £115,000 a week. £6m a year. Can you imagine the uproar on here if Boys Pen Billy paid himself that much?
Don Alexander
281 Posted 08/04/2018 at 23:44:45
Brazil-based Jay contends the Pochettino model as the way forward and fair enough, but the most important point after that is to realise that Spurs' "shrewd f*cker" also signed on the three main coaches that had been with him at Southampton and Espanyol before that.

That "shrewd f*cker" also seems to be free of the disease that makes our chairman employ as a coach any ex-player that turns up begging for such a job even if he's bereft of qualifications, or a reputation as remotely professional in his behaviour. For reasons that go beyond my understanding our last four managers have had to rely on one major such tosser with a few more permeating Finch Farm since his bizarre arrival.

Hopefully the next manager/DoF at Everton "get" football rather than whatever Kenwright imagines "us" to be. Getting rid of dross in favour of their own proven coaches will indicate seriousness from Mr Moshiri.

Ernie Baywood
282 Posted 09/04/2018 at 03:40:19
I think the comparisons of DCL and Kane are entirely appropriate.

He's a bit of bulk and a bit of confidence away from being a good Premier League striker. Get him off the pitch and on the weights! Then let him go and score some goals in the Championship in August.

There are very fine margins between making it or not at the top level. If we want him to be decent, then we have to give him the best chance possible.

Playing him as a sometime winger just makes no sense in the grander scheme of things.

George Stuart
283 Posted 09/04/2018 at 08:12:04
A new form of football.
During the game I was trying to explain to wife the back third, the middle third and the last third.
She got it in the end as the RS illustrated the concept.
But we discovered a new way of playing the game. Fifths. When we lost the ball, we would snap into a thin band of blue 1/5th of the pitch wide. This would sit in the 2nd fifth until the RS lost possession or it frittered out. This happened time and time again. Occasionally the line moving into the 3rd fifth. No wonder we offered little in attack.
Her view of the game, boring and our goalie is good. I couldnt help but agree.
Justin Doone
284 Posted 09/04/2018 at 14:10:27
Thinking out a loud.
Young promising players are just that. It's very rare any teenager or under 23 player has the quality and consistency to play week in week out in the top leagues.
Those that do are not afforded the time to learn and develop they need to be 'the best' from there second season which often proves to be their hardest after a breakthrough season.
Mentally I think most players would cope with playing less in season 2 but fans often want to see them more and prove there good enough to be the next 'superstar tag' leaving both manager and player under pressure and on a no win situation unless the next Pele, Ronaldo, Messi blossom.
Do we fans fuel the press to put unrealistic tags on promising youngsters or should we expect more from season 2 potential.

I try to be positive and I think in this poor season Pickford, Holgate, Kenny, Davies, DCL have all had good seasons. Aspects of their game have improved and shown some consistency and I'm surprised by fans who have already written off their careers.

I see real fight, commitment and quality in those players. Not world class players but certainly good Premier league players who can hopefully continue to develop and become top class in the next 3 to 5 years.

Yes I'm afraid it does take that long to prove quality and consistency at the top level. We have had lots of false promise sold off but a great example is Barkley who still devides opinions. For me great quality but lacks consistency but still young enough to develop and be a top class player.

My only hesitation is do the current crop appear good from our lack of quality and would they hold their own if we had been challenging the top 6?

We will never no but wasting millions on supposed proven talent from overseas could be a blessing in disguise for those players and I'm looking forward to watching continued developmental and consistency next season.

The next big problem is for them to be given game time, so either they go (hopefully only on loan) or the manager goes and I think we all agree on which way that scenario plays out.

Eddie Dunn
285 Posted 09/04/2018 at 17:11:47
Eric Paul, #275. Out of the Shite's starting eleven, I would have Lovren over jags, van Dijk over keane, Wynaldum over Rooney, Henderson over Schnides, Milner over Davies and Mane over Bolasie.
Roman Sidey
286 Posted 09/04/2018 at 23:37:12
John G Davies, well that's great that he can do it against other U20s, but I'd also add that if he'd hit that ball with purpose the first time he wouldn't have needed the follow up shot (which was well placed) to score.

Amit, you use players like Vardy, Mahrez, N'Kante and Kane as comparisons to Calvert-Lewin. Fine, but don't mistake talent for achievement. Just because you didn't see those players in the Premier League until a few years ago doesn't mean that they weren't talented players wherever they were, and if Calvert-Lewin turns out as good as Kane, I'll eat my words and them some.

Jay Wood, you see more in him than I do, BUT I was actually on here a few weeks ago saying that he should be loaned out to a Championship side to improve him before getting any more game time in the Premier League. I was lambasted by people saying it was a stupid idea, yet on this thread it's been mentioned dozens of times as a good idea, and your comparison to Kane certainly shows that maybe a few loans can be a good idea.

You get Allardyce saying every week that he can't afford to give certain players (Vlasic, Klaasen, etc) time because every game is vital, but playing Calvert-Lewin is essentially blooding a youngster for experience because for the past few months he has added very little to the side when he's come on.

I'll repeat my sentiment as I finish off: I don't have any ill will toward the lad, but I just don't see a Premier League footballer in him. I just don't.

Jay Wood

287 Posted 10/04/2018 at 00:24:27
Roman @ 286:

"...a few weeks ago [I said Calvert-Lewin] should be loaned out to a Championship side to improve him before getting any more game time in the Premier League... your comparison to Kane certainly shows that maybe a few loans can be a good idea."

You conveniently forget to mention you also bemoaned his introduction as a substitute, saying it was like playing a 15-year-old and effectively reduced the team to playing with 10 men.

But back to your claims about how he could benefit from a loan move.

Did you miss the bit when I compared Calvert-Lewin's own loan move to Kane's at a similar age - 18 - showing Calvert-Lewin did better?

Or the fact that Calvert-Lewin's first team football in the last 2 seasons has been exclusively in the Premier League, at a younger age than Kane's first taste of Premier League football for Spurs? And that again, compared to Kane's goal and assists returns at lower league sides at a similar age, Calvert-Lewin is outperforming him in a higher standard league?

That Calvert-Lewin performed well in every game at the U-20s World Cup last season, including scoring the final winning goal, whereas Kane has flopped – badly! – in the two international tournaments he was selected for?

That this season Calvert-Lewin's joint goals scored and assists for the Everton first team cannot be bettered by anyone, and that in a struggling side?

Why on earth would you want a player of that caliber loaned out?

He's doing just fine where he is.

Trevor Peers
288 Posted 10/04/2018 at 00:58:48
Will (#267); You won't find many takers with Unsworth he's completely lost his way, he's lost 6 out of the last 7 games, including a 4-0 thrashing by West Ham U23s tonight.

No doubt you would also bring Barkley back who has utterly failed to make his mark at Chelsea, he's hopelessly out of his depth but receiving 𧵄k a week for his trouble, his agent also received ٧ million from the deal, disgusting.

Don Alexander
289 Posted 10/04/2018 at 01:35:48
Trevor (#288), I never thought Unsworth would make the grade above what he's already achieved simply because he seems to be so comfortable where he is despite offers to manage first teams elsewhere, but this owner/board have destroyed his credibility inside the club as far as I'm concerned by what they did to him this season.

They announced to the world that he was a very, very temp until they went begging to Allardyce as a last gasp appointee and then they sent him back to a squad of aspiring youngsters most of whom, if not all, had by then realised he, Unsworth, had zero clout in the bigger picture of populating the first team with his young "stars".

Roman Sidey
290 Posted 10/04/2018 at 21:01:31
Jay, I actually agree with most of your last post, and wasn't actually trying to contradict you at all regarding the past loans of players. Yes I called for him to be loaned recently, and yes I said bringing him on was like playing with 10 men, because that is what I believe is the case against most Premier League opposition. I do think a loan move would improve him as a player, as at the moment he is floundering. His stats may paint a different story, but I see a player who has stalled in his development.

When he first signed for the club, I was excited about him, but I just haven't seen the improvement in certain areas that you'd expect from a 20-21 year old player. James Vaughan and Victor Anichebe spring to mind when I watch him play.

Please don't mistake this for malice, I would love nothing more than for every player in an Everton shirt to become a great player, and Calvert-Lewin is no different there. I truly do hope I'm (and a lot of other people on this site) wrong about him.

Rob Halligan
291 Posted 11/04/2018 at 17:41:07
Not quite sure what thread to out this on, but upon his seems as good as any.

I see the red shite have been charged YET AGAIN by UEFA following last night's game. Apparently their gobshite fans set off fireworks and threw objects inside the stadium.

Why don't UEFA just grow a pair and kick the bastards out? You can almost guarantee there will be trouble galore should they draw Roma or Bayern Munich (should they get through tonight that is) in the semi final.

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