A Good Move?

by   |   13/05/2018  17 Comments  [Jump to last]

I hope all the fans of the proposed new Everton stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock read Arsene Wenger's words in The Guardian yesterday:

"Highbury had a special spirit. The Emirates was like buying a new house, it took us a while to feel at home there. It's a fantastic stadium but there was something special at Highbury that you could never recreate."

Arsenal had to move to accommodate growing fan numbers... Do we?

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Derek Thomas
1 Posted 13/05/2018 at 11:13:23
Yep; or so it seems by the number of people who want 60K plus. We'll probably fill it or get near it for the first season...but for how long?
Dennis Stevens
2 Posted 13/05/2018 at 11:24:39
Well, we sure need an upgrade on the facilities we have now. There's an argument for redevelopment of Goodison Park, a strong one imo. However, successive owners are set on the new build, new location model.

Assuming Bramley Moore goes ahead, we don't have to repeat the mistakes Arsenal made. They have a great new stadium, but it's not a football stadium. Meis does at least seem intent on maintaining the intensity of the atmosphere common to both Goodison & Highbury. Arsenal didn't really buy the right new house for their needs.

As for the capacity at Bramley Moore, we should go for the maximum the site can handle which seems to be about 60k. We're only going to build it once so let's not skimp on the job. Whether we'll fill it regularly, nobody knows either way, but the way attendances & season ticket sales have held up of recent times, despite the footballing fare & the poor facilities, would indicate it's a reasonable possibility.

David McMullen
3 Posted 13/05/2018 at 11:52:15
Is it not the reason (one of them) for the slow paced fan consultation - Dan Meis involvement, that we don't make the same mistakes about new stadiums? No "generic bowl" which The Emirates clearly is.
Martin Nicholls
4 Posted 14/05/2018 at 07:47:55
The "special spirit" has gone from Goodison Park - I can only pray that it will return before we move on.
Steve Ferns
5 Posted 14/05/2018 at 08:32:59
We have to leave Goodison before it falls down. If we redevelop using the existing footprint, it must conform to modern specifications and would drop to a below 30,000 capacity stadium.

Sorry lads, we have to go.

Clive Rogers
6 Posted 14/05/2018 at 09:48:09
The evidence is that we do. Ground virtually full every game during the worst season for decades and season tickets sold out within days. With a decent team, 50K would be no problem.
Mind you if Kenwright gets the push, that will free up two seats.
Anthony Hawkins
7 Posted 14/05/2018 at 12:14:18
Everton have to move stadium to move with the times. The stadium is as old as they come. It's about moving into a plush new home, not just up-sizing.
Ian Fisher
8 Posted 14/05/2018 at 12:55:51
One huge mistake Arsenal made was in moving to the Emirates, they disbanded the North Bank and distributed the fans around the ground.

I had three mates who were all ST holders right in the middle of the North Bank, the home end which all the singing started and created the atmosphere, which they had held for around ten years.

Now, as excited as they were to be moving grounds, they all had to buy a 'share' at around a grand to be able to apply for a season ticket ( i'm guessing at the cost as I can't remember exactly how much ) but then they were put into a draw and allocated seats in various parts of the stadium.

Only one of them ended up behind the goal, and he ended up right in the front row. Another ended up on the second tier above where the players came out and apparently was surrounded by people who just moaned constantly and would never attempt to sing/chant or try and create any sort of atmosphere. The third ended up sitting with his seat looking right along the goal line at the away end, and hated the view.

So Arsenal had moved all the main singing section and placed them around the new ground, maybe hoping that the usual atmosphere would be created all around the ground, but it didn't happen.

The Emirates was a soulless bowl when it opened and it took a good few seasons for that to change when all they had to do was give people like-for-like seats, big mistake by Arsenal.

Can you imagine if Everton disband the St. End and those that normally sit there end up all over the ground ?

Michael Lynch
9 Posted 14/05/2018 at 13:18:34
The big difference between Highbury/Emirates and Goodison/BMD is the percentage of "real" fans to plastics. Arsenal moved at a time that football was becoming more fashionable amongst corporate and wealthier types who aren't exactly football fanatics. First time I went to the Emirates I was amazed at the amount of non-football types, for whom it was just another form of entertainment, like going out for a meal or to the theatre. The season ticket is hugely expensive, putting it out of reach of the average fan, even in London, with a fairly complicated pricing structure depending not just on which stand you sit in, but also where in that stand you sit.

I think we will avoid the worst problems because we have less corporate fans, this not being London, and hopefully by keeping a tight grip on our relatively very low season ticket prices. If we can build to a more traditional shape, and put the crowd and atmosphere totally at the heart of the project, we'll be fine.

In order to retain Goodison as our home, we'd have to do a complete rebuild, so it still wouldn't be the Goodison we have now. Which is simply not fit for purpose any more.

I can't wait to go - I never thought I'd be saying that, but a new ground is a hugely exciting prospect to me. The fans are the club, and we have a great fan base - mostly local people who have passed the love down through the generations, who know their history, and see Everton as a community not just a football club.

Liverpool and London are very different cities, with very different offerings, different cultures, different economies. London now is a world city, the growth is all coming from outside the UK, with young Londoners moving out because they can't afford to live there anymore, going to places like Manchester and Leeds and, yes, Liverpool. We don't have that drain of young people any more, like we did in the 80s, they're staying as the City has recovered.

Steve Ferns
10 Posted 14/05/2018 at 13:23:19
We've all seen the metal pillar erected in the Park End Car Park, but watching the tragic young Alfie Evans funeral procession, it looks like he structure has been added to.

Can anyone shed any light on what this is, and why are we building if we're leaving in a few years?

Steve Ferns
11 Posted 14/05/2018 at 13:26:10
Forget that. I was being a lazy arse. Did some research and it's new facilities for the disabled and there's even an article on it in the Echo
Phil Walling
12 Posted 14/05/2018 at 19:34:49
Steve -DO you really think we will ever move from Goodison. At least in our lifetime. ( I'm 61 )
Tom Hughes
13 Posted 17/05/2018 at 13:00:24
With a relatively small landtake, Goodison Park can be redeveloped to any capacity that can be achieved at BMD. The myth about not being able to redevelop GP was dispelled years ago. Thete are any number of possibilities.

I'm all for moving to a state of art stadium, but not based on any false premise about GP. Furthermore I can state without fear of contradiction that GP can be readily upgraded to 55k+ for a fraction of the £500m quoted for the dock. The qiestion is: At what point does the cost:benefit equation tip towards that option?

Steve Ferns
14 Posted 17/05/2018 at 13:04:25
Is that right Tom? What about the stuff about the seats being too small and the gangways needing to be bigger and all of the other health and safety rubbish?

And what's a relatively small landtake? The school?

Without the proposal to rotate the pitch and to develop onto what is now Bullens Rd and part of the school, ie using the present land owned by the club, what's realistic capacity for a re-developed GP?

Erik Dols
15 Posted 17/05/2018 at 13:09:08
Why wouldn't you want to build on the land of the school?
Tom Hughes
16 Posted 17/05/2018 at 17:02:53

Just by bridging the Bullens Road and infringing on the school land by a few metres, would readily add 5k+ on this side – all to modern regulations in terms of tread depths and aisle widths.

Secondly, the Park End doesn't need any new land to add 5-10k if required. Joint venture with the council for a new school perhaps. This could be simple extensions of existing tiers or whole new upper stands.

Alternatively, a slightly larger land take on the Bullens Road side could facilitate a 10k extension on this side alone. With existing lower tiers reprofiled and back-of-house facilities added on all levels.

The Park End could become the new blue wall with the added obvious benefit that it half already exists. This wouldn't cost anywhere near 𧺬M.

Jim Wilson
17 Posted 25/05/2018 at 16:28:39
No way should we consider moving, especially with the regime we have. Far too risky in so many ways.

Liverpool had the sense to redevelop and Goodison has a far better site than Anfield.

We just have a short-sighted board with eyes on a pot of gold that doesn't exist. If there is a right or wrong decision to be made, you can trust our board to make the wrong move.

Wenger for manager. A wise man!

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