Everton unveil 11 key principles for stadium move

Wednesday, 24 January, 2018 132comments  |  Jump to most recent

Everton have unveiled the framework which will shape the club's future as it pertains to the proposed stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock and the future of the location they will leave behind.

The club are pressing ahead with plans for a new ground on the banks of the Mersey in the historic north docks area of Liverpool, with a funding arrangement with the City Council set for discussion and a vote in the coming weeks.

In the interim, Chief Executive Robert Elstone has outlined 11 key principles which will guide the club as they move forward with the development of the new ground, the consultation phase with supporters, and plans for the legacy Everton will leave behind at Goodison Park.

The principles were put together following a survey of thousands of Evertonians and include a commitment to building an iconic landmark on the City's waterfront, which will become a fortress for the Club, as well as a pledge to continue serving the residents and the community of Liverpool 4.

Everton Chief Executive Robert Elstone said: “Our stadium should be built to meet the needs and expectations of the people that will use it; our players, our partners and, above all, our fans.

“To understand those views, we've aggregated what we've heard and what we've read to develop what we are calling our ‘Key Principles'. We'd like to share those principles, to test and amend — or refine them — and to use them to frame the ideas and expectations of our fans."

The club is inviting fans with a customer number to share their views on the Key Principles via an online survey. Supporters wishing to participatein the survey can click here. Surveys will need to be completed by 5pm on Friday 23 February.

The principles were summarised as follows at evertonfc.com:

Article continues below video content

1. Our Fortress

Everton's objective is to challenge for all honours and play European football every season — and the new home is key to delivering this ambition.

2. A New Home for Everton

The club want the new stadium to feel like home to our fans from the moment they arrive.

3. A Platform for Growth

The Project can be a platform to compete at the highest level both on and off the field.

4. The People's Club

How the new stadium project will allow Everton to expand its 'People's Club' ethos.

5. An Iconic Landmark for Liverpool

How the club plans to uphold its tradition for innovation and leadership.

6. Easy to Get to, Easy to Get Home

Transport details surrounding the new project.

7. A Legacy for Goodison Park

Everton are committed to leaving a lasting, positive legacy for the L4 area.

8. Respecting Heritage

Through working with conservation agencies and Historic England, the club ensure that the development is sensitive to the history and significance of the site.

9. Harnessing the Environment

Everton plan to harness the unique features of this location to create an environmentally friendly and sustainable stadium.

10. Embracing Technology

The new stadium will embrace cutting-edge technology to support and deliver a unique entertainment experience.

11. The Right Deal for Liverpool

How the City of Liverpool will benefit financially from this deal.


Reader Comments (132)

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Tom Dodds
1 Posted 24/01/2018 at 22:44:52
All the plans/ideals and outlines ad infinitum except of course, the 'Artist's impression'.

A firm on the said dock I know of ,was given their marching orders for the end of this year. They have (this month) just been given an extension now till 2020.

When will that Shyster Toad finally do one?

Robin Cannon
2 Posted 24/01/2018 at 22:46:02
Before everyone dives in to talk about how they don't want to hear more PR crap, or they don't believe the stadium will be built, or how we should spend money on the team, or how Joe Anderson is screwing up...

There's nothing about these principles that I disagree with. And I support them being clearly stated, so that they are there as a benchmark to build against.

Colin Leckey
3 Posted 24/01/2018 at 22:46:08
Jesus this is as bad as one of those God awful “corporate vision statements” full of “company values” that big organisations sometimes trot out... I wonder how much money we wasted on some consultant to produce this?? Cut the crap and get on and build the damn thing!
Gordon White
4 Posted 24/01/2018 at 22:58:42
All very fine I'm sure. But it'll mean jack shit if they cock up the naming rights.

Just imagine – "and next we're going live to the 2022 Merseyside derby... at the Durex stadium".

Jamie Crowley
5 Posted 24/01/2018 at 23:01:05
Robin @ 2 you're correct – there's nothing to disagree with here. And it's a vision statement and roadmap as we travel forward.

I happen to agree with Colin @3 though.

It has the distinct whiff of corporate bullshit. Strap on your boots!

Cut the Dale Carnegie School of Business fuckaboutery and start building the fucking thing already!

Whomever wrote this also took that class on how to appropriately tilt your hand slightly over to show "power" when shaking, how to never say, "the hard thing is..." but replace it with, "the challenging aspect of this...", and all that non-human horseshit that turns good hard working people into mindless corporate sheep.

Fuck, I hate this fluffy corporate crap!

STFU and start building. Jesus!

Brent Stephens
6 Posted 24/01/2018 at 23:02:36
Motherhood and apple pie.
Jamie Crowley
7 Posted 24/01/2018 at 23:04:35
If your Mum was a street-peddler and apple pie was made of a sketchy substitute...
Ron Sear
8 Posted 24/01/2018 at 23:07:57
Puerile corporate speak – I wonder if the kind of people who dream this crap up have even the remotest idea of the utter contempt in which they are held by the minions who have to listen to it?
Iain Johnston
9 Posted 24/01/2018 at 23:25:41
Have they used 'bespoke solutions' yet?

Jason Wilkinson
10 Posted 24/01/2018 at 00:00:27
If we keep playing like we are, the best innovation they could come up with is seats that face away from the pitch.
Alexander Murphy
12 Posted 24/01/2018 at 00:10:38
Trotting out "flim flam" and "fiddle faddle" brooks no crapulence with me.

So, whether it emanates from L4 4EL or TW "regulars", fiddle faddle and flim flam get right up my nostrils. Same shite from a different outlet.

James Flynn
13 Posted 24/01/2018 at 00:15:00
Good. Every positive statement is important. 2022. Gonna be exciting.

And 2020, 2021 as it's all happening.

Can't wait.

Mike Dolan
14 Posted 25/01/2018 at 00:43:05
It's nothing to get hung about. Just as long as we can get a team on the field that can manage more than one shot on goal every five games.
Andrew McGuffog
15 Posted 25/01/2018 at 00:51:29
There's going to be some grass and some seats.
Barry Williams
16 Posted 25/01/2018 at 00:54:05
Anthony Hughes - 4

Plenty would come!

Barry Williams
17 Posted 25/01/2018 at 00:59:34
Jamie Crowley - 5

Agree, had so much of this BS thrown at me before. I like concrete plans (pun intended), evidence and real action, then I may get on-board and not be so cynical!

Like many corporate entities, what they say isn't wrong, but what in real terms does it mean!?

I worked in a company that was always going on about life/work balance whilst putting most on split shifts; most people lived away from the city as they couldn't afford to live in the centre, so had long commutes. Thus it was just lip service to give the impression they were actually working on the issue!

In my 4 years at the place things got no better, though they were promoting work/life balance all that time, even having specialists in it come in and talk to us! Not saying that that is the case here, but there is an element of procrastination in it!

Don Alexander
18 Posted 25/01/2018 at 01:00:08
Jeez, this stadium will be impressive and then some given it only took ten, not eleven, principles to create Christianity.
Barry Williams
19 Posted 25/01/2018 at 01:05:34
Anthony Hughes - 4

They could have free tickets for anyone called Johnny!

Jason Davenport
21 Posted 25/01/2018 at 01:29:18
I am 72. Wonder if I will be still alive to see it?
Mark Andersson
22 Posted 25/01/2018 at 01:41:57
Can't get excited about anything Everton...maybe once teary Bill slings his hook I might.
Brian Wilkinson
23 Posted 25/01/2018 at 02:06:42
Spot on Malcolm@20, I am from Merseyside but not a scouser, followed Everton home and away like yourself for years. It used to nark me no end, even on away trips, you'd heard the 'woolly back' digs from the wedge cut jeans as tight as a nuns crutch brigade. We are all Evertonians, regardless if we were not born or raised in L4, rant also over.

On a lighter note, I always said, no matter where you go on holiday, or a day out somewhere in the UK, you are guaranteed to bump into another Evertonian.

David Israel
24 Posted 25/01/2018 at 02:11:49
The Boston Consulting Group, or some such outfit, have arrived, undoubtedly. Still, we never saw any of this at the time of our previous, failed, attempts to move house. This time, I believe we will get it. But, yes indeed, I wish they'd cut the crap.
Barry Williams
25 Posted 25/01/2018 at 02:19:29
Brian Wilkinson - 23

Take it to its logical conclusion, then only people from Everton or the Walton area should follow Everton, and this is coming form someone who is born in Bootle, which isn't considered Liverpool by some!!

I have spent about 20 years away from Liverpool on and off, left altogether in 2001, although have been back for a while now awaiting my next adventure. Does that make me less scouse!!??

If you are born on a plane, where are you from? All a bit silly.

Plenty of working class fans traveled into the ground from other areas, notably North Wales – does that make them more of a fan, or less?????!!!!??? There are plenty of non-scouse' fans who could claim to be better fans than me!

I used to take the piss out of some Liverpool supporting Liverpool born friends back in the 80s by telling them I'd actually been to Anfield more times than them! And it was often true!

Robbie Shields
27 Posted 25/01/2018 at 02:29:36
How anyone can whinge about these 11 Principles is beyond me, Christ we have some miserable gits following the mighty blues. If we won the European Cup 5-0 against the Red Shite they'd still find something to whinge about, something like... "I bet that lot get us banned from Europe next year now".

What would you all like? No Principles? No Planning? No funding? Crap site? No Vision? No legacy? No Accountability?

They have set the bar very high by announcing these Principles and I'm made up. They have a lot to live up to and thank god someone in the club has vision, pride and determination to do the right thing at last.

I can't wait for the design, I've got very high expectations indeed and these Principles support that view, but I'm happy to wait a little longer. Good things come to those that wait apparently, and we've been waiting a very very long time.


Barry Williams
28 Posted 25/01/2018 at 02:33:13
Robbie Shields – (#27),

I think you are being a bit harsh there mate, I don't see a lot of moaning, but just some cynicism either from previous experiences with Everton, or knowing corporate techniques/corporate speak. what is being said is all very well, but it doesn't actually say anything of substance!

There are no concrete details for any of the principles or how they will be achieved for example! Take the transportation principle for example. Are any examples given!?

Derek Thomas
29 Posted 25/01/2018 at 02:34:55
1) If you don't have a customer number, you can't do the survey.

2) Less talk, more dig!

Robbie Shields
30 Posted 25/01/2018 at 02:43:10
Barry - 28. They are Principles. That's the whole point of them. They assist the Club in making all future decisions by referring back to them, plus they've been made public so we get to hold them to account.

They are not intended to be solutions, just guide all decisions in coming to solutions to make sure they align with the vision and goals.

They are very effective at keeping everyone 'on track' and focussed to actually meet the vision by making it clear what the objectives are. If we applied these Principles to the Destination Kirkby fiasco, would any of it stood up to scrutiny? Not a cat-in-hell's chance.

This is good news!

Barry Williams
31 Posted 25/01/2018 at 02:50:56
Robbie Shields - 30

Yes Rob, I get that and I also get where you are coming from and why you think that people are being 'miserable gits', which I like to think I am not, but might well be!

However, 1. Our Fortress - Everton's objective is to challenge for all honours and play European football every season — and the new home is key to delivering this ambition.

I mean really!!?? You can't see anything wrong with that being the opening principle to a further 10 principles!?

Shouldn't that be ingrained in the club and be a key principle even if we play in the park.

How about, there will be no restrictive views anywhere in the ground, plenty of legroom and no need to queue to get a drink for any more than five minutes, no matter what? A principle is wishy-washy a deliverable is accountable and can be challenged by the customer, ie, the fans who pay a shed load!

The people who take time to come out with this flannel are paid a shed load too!!!!

Robbie Shields
32 Posted 25/01/2018 at 04:06:41
Barry - 31

I get where you are coming from too, but there is a difference between Principles, Objectives and Requirements!

Principle - The Stadium has to act as a Fortress to ......

Objective - challenge for all honours and play European football every season

Requirements Definition -
1) No Restricted Views - Aligns with Fortress (tick)
2) Plenty of leg room - Have you been to the new Wembley (fail)
3) Food stall turn around < 5 mins - Keeps everyone in their seats until half time, no stampede to the food stores and back in time for 2nd half - (tick)

You see, it helps the decision making process to ensure requirements are prioritised that align with the Principles.

It's basically good business practices, especially when building a half billion pound new football ground for the next generations of Evertonians to benefit from. Embrace it, we've needed this kind of business acumen for 30 years and prayed for it, now we've got it!

Roger Thomas
33 Posted 25/01/2018 at 04:41:55
Big business always have to say the Right Things.

A cornerstone of Moshiri's plans for the club. Trust in a very successful man who has pledged his acumen and money behind the club.

Jay Harris
34 Posted 25/01/2018 at 04:47:42
I remember seeing a beautiful design for Kings Dock and being promised the funding was ring-fenced so it was a dead cert.

The con-artist behind that is still running Everton and we haven't even got to a design yet – let alone the funding.

Just saying like.

Ian Linn
35 Posted 25/01/2018 at 05:34:41
I think it's a great example of taking a synergistic approach and focusing on core competencies. However, before they take a deep dive on this bleeding edge project, they need to incentivize the deliverables to ensure they get the desired impact whilst minimizing disruption – otherwise the collateral fall-out could cloud the integrated workflow. End-to-end management visibility is key – we're not talking wooden dollars here – and we definitely don't want a mashup of bricks and clicks.

Or they could just get on and build the fucking thing.

Paul Mackay
36 Posted 25/01/2018 at 06:22:25
Why 11 statements, random number?
Brian Williams
37 Posted 25/01/2018 at 07:47:27
11 players in a football team perhaps?
Liam Reilly
38 Posted 25/01/2018 at 07:59:54
The cynic in me says that there's some stalling going on here; especially with the following statement: "with a funding arrangement with the City Council set for discussion and a vote in the coming weeks."

What if that vote goes south?

Also, I'm all for the club looking after its supporters and EitC but we need to ditch 'The People's Club', as it's just small-time nonsense.

Les Martin
39 Posted 25/01/2018 at 08:48:01
Wow, I can't believe the naysayers here; no pleasing some, guess they've got to get their whinges in first, but that's democracy.

I look forward to their response and their change of underwear when the penny finally drops.

Over and out.

Laurie Hartley
40 Posted 25/01/2018 at 08:50:00

Ian (#35) – got your drift – it's fluff.

Jamie Evans
41 Posted 25/01/2018 at 08:58:20
I may be mistaken, but I'm almost certain that Jerry Maguire was fired for publishing something similar to this?

So my wife tells me anyway. I've never actually seen the film. Nothing personal – I just don't like Tom Cruise.

While I'm here, could we have two 'home ends' – one behind each goal and our away support placed up in the gods please?

Tony Sullivan
42 Posted 25/01/2018 at 09:02:06
Good to see ToffeeWebbers in such a positive mood!!

Question: If the club had consulted no-one and just upped sticks from Goodison Park, I wonder what the response on here would be?

Colin Glassar
44 Posted 25/01/2018 at 09:05:59
Is this our 11 commandments sent down from above (Mount Pleasant)?

Just show us a bloody rough sketch on a match box, anything!! Until you do, it's all talk and hot air.

Sam Hoare
45 Posted 25/01/2018 at 09:18:54
Don't really see that there's much to get upset about here. This thread is indicative of the deep-lying general frustration that the fans are justifiably feeling currently.
Steve Morley
48 Posted 25/01/2018 at 09:27:11
12. We need to think outside the box.

Ironically, we already only ever play there.

Phil Bellis
50 Posted 25/01/2018 at 09:45:18
Exactly my thoughts, Ian (35) and what about the nod to producing an inventory of material emerging risks which requires both divergent and convergent thinking: on the one hand, thoughtful research and wide-ranging consultation; on the other, an effective mechanism for triaging issues and aligning on top concerns?
Barry Williams
54 Posted 25/01/2018 at 10:03:36
Robbie Shields - 32

I'm not trying to persuade you that I am right or you are wrong as I think we both make valid points. I just feel that the principles lack substance and feel like a cheap throwaway PR exercise!

My opinion, maybe wrong, maybe right. I just hope we get the stadium started soon. You get a bit cynical when there has been loads of talk for decades, but no action. You get cynical when the Mayor talks about a ground in 2 years, back in 2016!

I just think if you are to release something in the press, put some meat on the bones! I look at the principles and nothing has been said. I get your distinctions Robbie, I really do, but why release principles when nothing has really been said.

I understand they act as a guide to the real actions, so why not include a little about them, at least to placate/inform the fans who'll be going to the stadium? They are superfluous to what people want to know imo! Happy for you to disagree! It isn't like we haven't had our fingers burnt on a number of occasions now, is it?

I have been around too much corporate BS in my time to really take this seriously! That's just the way it is for me. More action, less talk. The proof is in the pudding, more cliches etc etc!

Be knowable and accountable by your actions, not what you say!

Phil Walling
55 Posted 25/01/2018 at 10:04:53
What we want to hear is when the first spade will go in the water!
Colin Glassar
56 Posted 25/01/2018 at 10:08:11
They’re going to start recruiting volunteers soon, Phil. You will have to take your own bucket and wellies. The dock might be drained by 2050 if enough people turn up.
Stan Schofield
57 Posted 25/01/2018 at 10:11:18
Regarding these principles, there's nowt wrong with them. Trouble is though, folks can be sceptical because there's so much management shite floating around these days, and the principles do resemble management shite, although they might be genuine. I suppose the scepticism will evaporate as soon as there's a confirmed design and financial deal.

Clive Rogers
58 Posted 25/01/2018 at 10:21:46
If Kenwright is still chairman, I won't be going to it.
Brian Williams
59 Posted 25/01/2018 at 10:36:43
Basically, Stan, "Actions speak louder than words".
Stan Schofield
60 Posted 25/01/2018 at 11:02:51
Brian, yes, in a nutshell.

The principles, although talk, are realistic for Everton guven our history. Could you imagine Southampton or Watford stating those principles and being taken seriously? I couldn't.

Because we've been the elite in the past, and played football of a quality that's probably the equivalent of City's these days, we are always taken very seriously. I think that's why some of the media is biased, because of our past status and distinct possibility of us threatening the current elite of Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea and being better than the likes of Liverpool. We just need the money, to add to the passion and size of support we have, to complement the history.

History is important for a 'brand', and football is a business where brands mean something. So these 11 principles are very meaningful for Everton. Delivering on them is very feasible from a practical angle. It just needs the action to do it, and therefore dispel the scepticism we have.

Craig Walker
62 Posted 25/01/2018 at 11:26:14
12. World peace
13. Bill Kenwright to inhabit Mars and establish a boys' pen.
Alan McGuffog
64 Posted 25/01/2018 at 11:47:21
Clive if he is still Chairman never fear. There won't be an it.
Steve Brown
66 Posted 25/01/2018 at 11:48:19
14. Steve Walsh to sign a left-back.
Michael Lynch
67 Posted 25/01/2018 at 12:03:54
We're getting more like Spinal Tap every day – "most amplifiers only go up to 10, but ours go up to 11".

Rob Young
68 Posted 25/01/2018 at 12:09:05
I actually reckon the club are doing very well this time in allowing everyone to have their say on this project. I found the whole survey to be quite good.

Whether anything will be done with our wishes remain to be seen, but I want to believe in this stadium so I do.

Mike Rothwell
69 Posted 25/01/2018 at 12:25:31
Regardless of what the 11 points actually are .

It's all a bit too much like Milliband's "Ed Stone" for me.

Jay Wood

70 Posted 25/01/2018 at 12:27:47
For those sniffing at the 11 principles, how many of you clicked on one of the 3 links in the opening post taking you to the club site, giving a fuller description of what this is all about?

A brief overview is offered in this link:

Everton Shares Stadium Principles

It explains the 11 principles that, apparently, were put together following a survey of thousands of Evertonians. Ergo, it represents a compilation of ideas by actual fans.

Robert Elstone is quoted as saying:

"To understand those views, we've aggregated what we've heard and what we've read to develop what we are calling our ‘Key Principles'. We'd like to share those principles, to test and amend - or refine them - and to use them to frame the ideas and expectations of our fans."

Isn't the original consultation with 1000s of fans and the acknowledgement that the 11 principles are open to being tested, amended or refined to match the 'ideas and expectations of our fans' a good thing..?

Next, there is a link to a brief introduction by Elstone on the:

New Stadium Key Principles

There are links on that page to further brief statements by Elstone and Mayor Joe Anderson:

Foreword And Introduction

In a box top right on that page, there are 11 further links, each one opening a new page giving greater detail on each principle.

Reading the different bullet points on each, I am guessing they are an 'aggregation' (as Elstone described it) of fans opinions already canvassed, mixed with the club's own ambitions and aims it wishes to achieve.

Then there is a link to a survey about the 11 principles fans (with customer numbers) can complete:


I 'get' the cynicism about the club and 'corporate speak' some have expressed in this thread. I 'get' the 'actions speak louder than words' charges. But if some posters had taken the time to follow the links and read the content, it may have tempered the more condemning comments. Because it strikes me that the 11 principles pretty much reflect the majority desire of most Evertonians.

Rather than attracting scorn and derision on this, I'm of the opinion the club merit some praise for being inclusive and including the fans in the process.

By going public like this the club has also effectively placed itself in a headlock. Because if they fail to match the 11 principles, or the whole project collapses, the club custodians have given supporters a very large stick to beat them with.

I for one am happy to see such transparent accountability.

Kevin Tully
73 Posted 25/01/2018 at 12:48:23
Jay, I don't think the above is 'corporate speak' at all. It looks to me the equivalent of a business studies project by a 15-year-old child.

Q 1 – 20 marks: Outline your proposal for a new stadium move on behalf of Everton Football Club.

The presentation is so juvenile (like the slide at the AGM which said: 'Submit business plan') that I don't imagine anyone with an ounce of common sense would be taken in by it.

A waste of time and money. Which we are champions at.

Paul McCoy
74 Posted 25/01/2018 at 12:57:43
Well said, Jay [70]

Someone I know has been working on the funding aspect of the stadium and has met with Moshiri about it. I know it's normal to assume the club will fuck this up because that's what has happened traditionally. But I actually think we'll pull this one off.

The 11 principles listed are all sensible in my opinion and good on the club for even publishing them in the first place.

Soren Moyer
75 Posted 25/01/2018 at 13:15:38
It has taken almost 2 years to come up with this! What a club!!!
David McMullen
76 Posted 25/01/2018 at 13:16:33
Strange comments on here (as ever). I hate the over use of business speak and jargon. But that's what they do these days. Full of it everywhere.

Core principles.
1 It looks like a stadium fit to replace Goodison.
2 It's big and bold and ambitious enough.
3 It gets built.
4 By 2022?
5 Doesn't saddle us with too much debt (get the funding right).

Phil Bellis
77 Posted 25/01/2018 at 13:25:46
It'd help if I knew what my "Customer No." was!
Tony McNulty
78 Posted 25/01/2018 at 13:38:58
I can understand some of the negative reactions on here. I am no fan of mid-Atlantic guru speak (indeed I wrote critically on the subject in a book I had published a couple of years ago).

However I do think some of the above criticisms are a little churlish. The club is making an effort to set out some of the thoughts underpinning the move, and is inviting comments and reactions.

One relevant element which may be missing though, is what happens to Goodison. There is all the history; people's ashes have been spread there etc. For example, someone needs to make sure it doesn't get turned into a car park for our illustrious neighbours.

David McMullen
80 Posted 25/01/2018 at 14:36:36
Having read these points properly I think it's nice for the club to say this. But it's not like legally binding is it? I mean we can't challenge them about challenging for honours, bit far fetched isn't it!

I'm hopeful we will be a top team in the not so distant future but we're so far off it right now.

Chris Jones [Burton]
82 Posted 25/01/2018 at 14:46:49
I know this is ToffeeWeb and that being optimistic kind of goes against the flow, but can I say that the club's pages outlining their 11 prinicples do convey something we Evertonians are always crying out for... AMBITION.

Just consider the words used in the page devoted to principal number 5, "An Iconic Landmark For Liverpool".

Therein it states: "We are committed to creating a spectacular extension of the City’s world-famous waterfront. ... we will deliver a ground-breaking stadium that will become internationally recognised, envied and talked-about by all. Views from the stadium - and of the stadium - will be among the most captured and shared in the football world."

OK. Stop, Go back and read that paragraph again! If that's not being ambitious AND nailing your colours to the mast, I don't know what is.

So, I await sight of the architect's plans, and if they don't live up to the ambition expressed above then I'll become as cynical and miserable as the most cynical man on a wet Saturday afternoon after his team has just been thrashed 7:0. But in the meantime, I dream...

Paul Kossoff
83 Posted 25/01/2018 at 14:54:26
Gordon 4, It could be worse.

And now we go live to the Merseyside derby at the (Five times mate!) Stadium, sponsored by the Boston red socks! 😥😋

Brian Williams
84 Posted 25/01/2018 at 14:56:25
Tony (#78).

I think the plans for Goodison have already been aired at the a AGM, mate. I can't remember exactly what they were but they were in tune with the community etc.

Tony McNulty
85 Posted 25/01/2018 at 15:30:49
Thanks Brian (84). Hopefully some fertile minds within the club have already picked their way through this Gordian knot.

I do think that it is a difficult and sensitive issue though, and if it isn't thought through will undoubtedly raise hackles.

Phil Bellis
87 Posted 25/01/2018 at 16:16:09
Colin (#56),

Obvious answer is if, instead of hanging kopites, enough Anfield tourists were thrown into the dock, the water would be displaced and overflow, as shown by Archimedes (whoever he played for).

Dave Abrahams
88 Posted 25/01/2018 at 16:44:10
Jay (#70), thanks for the information and the links but to be honest I'm not interested in the information, I fully expect and believe this stadium will be built and it will be the envy of many clubs supporters just as Goodison Park was in it's finery when I first went there as a boy. It is getting at the jealousy glands of lots of Red fans even now, years before it is built.

Four years from now, we will be moving in to our glorious new home, my sons, grandsons and great grandson will be there at the opening game. I hope to God I am there with them, if not in person, my ghost will be there cheering with them.

Gordon White
89 Posted 25/01/2018 at 17:12:35
Paul 83
Alan McGuffog
90 Posted 25/01/2018 at 17:31:16
Has the club actually got around to applying for planning permission yet?
Paul Birmingham
92 Posted 25/01/2018 at 17:45:49
Time will prove. This EFC, always expect the unexpected..
Andy Meighan
93 Posted 25/01/2018 at 17:56:19
Well, John (#71), If anyone's entitled to see us playing in a brand new stadium by the waterfront, it's you!!! Hope you get to see it, mate.
David Israel
94 Posted 25/01/2018 at 17:59:33
Phil # 87 : the upward buoyant force that is exerted on a body immersed in a fluid, whether fully or partially submerged, is equal to the weight of the fluid that the body displaces and acts in the upward direction at the center of mass of the displaced fluid.

This bloke Archimedes was from Sicily, so he probably played for Palermo. And he was in his bath-tub when he came up with this principle.

Colin Glassar
95 Posted 25/01/2018 at 18:11:05
Phil & David, I think if we used koppites to fill the dock wouldn't that cause massive pollution to The Royal Blue Mersey?
Brian Williams
96 Posted 25/01/2018 at 18:14:01
And remember, Col, you can't just go dumping shit in the river these days!
David Israel
97 Posted 25/01/2018 at 18:23:24
Colin (#95) and Brian (#96), we must indeed take Principle #9 seriously, along with all the others, of course.
Eddie Dunn
98 Posted 25/01/2018 at 18:27:57
Thinking ahead, if sea levels rise, as predicted, will the pitch be underwater by the time the thing is ready?

Perhaps we should build it on a hill?

James Brand
99 Posted 25/01/2018 at 18:30:45
Just unveil the framework for the remaining games this season will do for now...
David Israel
100 Posted 25/01/2018 at 18:31:22
Eddie, perhaps we should name it the Albert Gore Stadium? Some 15 years ago, he predicted that Lower Manhattan would be under water by now.
Eddie Dunn
101 Posted 25/01/2018 at 18:33:29
Everyone could attend the games by boat.
David Israel
102 Posted 25/01/2018 at 18:36:45
That's been taken into account in Principle #6, Eddie.
Mark Melton
103 Posted 25/01/2018 at 18:37:04
Anyone completed the survey yet? It's quite extensive and thorough.
Colin Glassar
104 Posted 25/01/2018 at 18:39:45
We'd be better off playing Water Polo tbh.

Eddie, I always said Kensington (Kenny) would be a good place to build a new stadium. We would have to knock a few streets down but we'd be away from the water but we'd still have an Ocean View.

Terry Underwood
106 Posted 25/01/2018 at 18:43:43
Welcome to the St Domingo Stadium.
John Pierce
107 Posted 25/01/2018 at 18:51:21
If the fuckers don't actually start building the thing, I'm going to get that Nick Knowles and his crew of mates to come build the damn thing over a weekend, all welcome. Bring beet and brews.
Karl Masters
108 Posted 25/01/2018 at 19:11:40
This shows ambition.

Also it's already gone a lot further than any other Stadium move attempt where glossy pictures were just that – no substance behind them.

This will happen.

Also interesting it talks about a Home End and a Main Stand looking into the pitch one way and towards the Mersey, Liverpool Waters and the City the other way. Bowl stadiums don't have ‘main stands' as such. I think the design is going to be something quite different.

As a distraction, has anybody seen that Mercedes stadium in America where the roof opens like a camera lens? That stadium is something else. It's amazing what construction techniques are out there now.

Karl Masters
109 Posted 25/01/2018 at 19:13:23
Home of the Atlanta Falcons.
Brian Hennessy
110 Posted 25/01/2018 at 19:31:09

That Falcons stadium is certainly impressive – just don't tell Bill and Elstone that it cost $1.2 billion back in 2013!!

Mike Allen
111 Posted 25/01/2018 at 20:17:47
I would like to see Goodison and the surrounding area developed and don't know why it can't but, if that is not a feasible project, then what's wrong with what they are proposing? Or is there a grassy knoll lurking behind the scene???
Barry Williams
112 Posted 25/01/2018 at 20:25:05
I like the stadiums in Japan, the customer is central to everything. You don't even have to leave your seat, the beer is brought to you!
James Marshall
113 Posted 25/01/2018 at 20:35:40
They're just keeping the wheels greased really aren't they?

None of this means anything – we need a new stadium, so build one.

I never really paid much attention but I wonder if clubs like Arsenal& Spurs spouted all this tosh before they built theirs.


Brian Denton
114 Posted 25/01/2018 at 20:36:43
Sorry, Barry, that sort of 'vision' does not grab me at all. I'm not a 'customer' or 'consumer' of Everton. I'm a fan.
James Marshall
115 Posted 25/01/2018 at 20:38:31
Has that Atlanta Falcons stadium got grass on it? That building is amazing but could you grow and maintain grass on it year round with a design like that?
Rob Halligan
116 Posted 25/01/2018 at 20:54:22
Karl (#109). Is this the stadium you mean?


Barry Williams
117 Posted 25/01/2018 at 21:08:43
Brian Denton - 114

It would never work in Britain, different mentality. I was being light-hearted mate!

Jamie Crowley
118 Posted 25/01/2018 at 22:13:21
The next step for Everton: hire Terry Tate. He'll back the 11 principles and put the pain on those who don't buy into them.


Jim Wilson
120 Posted 26/01/2018 at 00:42:27
Staying at Goodison Park (and developing sensibly and easily) or moving to Stanley Park clearly adheres to the 11 key principles far more than moving to Bramley-Moore.

A club that didn't arrange cover for the left-back position when it was inundated with good left backs (all on loan or not signed up) does not give me confidence that it would have a clue on moving to Bramley-Moore.

I consider it horrendously dangerous – especially while Kenwright is at the helm.

The shortcut to success is just to appoint a good manager who has common sense; something we seem incapable of doing.

The proposed moves to Kings Dock and Kirkby should tell everyone that this club, which is run by thick people, cannot be trusted to deliver.

Nicholas Ryan
121 Posted 26/01/2018 at 01:33:44
Am I alone, in thinking that this document, doesn't actually say anything?!
Don Alexander
122 Posted 26/01/2018 at 01:47:35
Nicholas, no!
Peter Gorman
123 Posted 26/01/2018 at 02:43:22
Something about a people's fortress growing from a platform?
Laurie Hartley
124 Posted 26/01/2018 at 03:42:40
Regarding my "fluff" comment I am going to take Jay's advice and have started reading through the links on the Official site.

From what I have read so far, I was way off the mark.

Laurie Hartley
125 Posted 26/01/2018 at 08:58:33
Well I have read through every line under the 11 principles on the Official site.

There are a lot of "we will" statements which if they deliver on will certainly give Evertonians everywhere something to be proud of as well as being good news in general for the people of Liverpool.

Dave # 88 - "Four years from now, we will be moving in to our glorious new home, my sons, grandsons and great grandson will be there at the opening game. sons, grandsons and great grandson will be there at the opening game". I think you could be right.

If so I will be able to keep my promise to Eric Myles to buy him a pint at the opening. You and your lads are invited. As they say here in Oz – "My shout!"

Up the Blues.

Eddie Dunn
126 Posted 26/01/2018 at 09:43:32
No matter what the design, the new stadium (if it happens) will be terribly affected by the swirling winds down on the waterfront.

Mark my words, in years to come, this site will be full of folk moaning about the cold wind freezing their nuts off, the high balls disappearing into the squally Mersey and the crisp packets, gum wrappers etc being catapulted heavenwards in a vortex of detritus.

And those pesky gulls shitting on everyone and nicking the pies.

Dave Abrahams
127 Posted 26/01/2018 at 11:52:52
Laurie (126), I've just put your last paragraph in my diary, we'll all be waiting on that lovely day, I'll get the meat pies!!!!
Roger Helm
128 Posted 26/01/2018 at 13:27:54
I just filled in the survey – the club want my opinions on the size and shape, design features and facilities etc. Does this mean that no design work has been done yet? What have all these months and millions of pounds of fees been spent on?
Dave Evans
129 Posted 26/01/2018 at 14:50:01

Eddie didn't diss the pesky gulls, they may be the only entertainment on offer.

David McMullen
130 Posted 26/01/2018 at 15:34:58
I've just done the survey and it takes time, time to read, time to give your answers some thought. I admit I'm very impressed by what I read. From the amateurish way the club has been in recent years well that's given me the belief that someone somewhere is actually doing a damn good job at the club.

As a fan of the Lucas Oil Stadium you bet ya I gave it my best opinion.

I was a bit disappointed with the option to have either 4 stands with "gaps" in the corners (I imagine akin to the Kirkby stadium design) or a continuous stadium; I think 4 stands but actually no gaps in the corners is better. Just my humble opinion.

Some good thought gone in to the questions. Hope everyone gives it a go! By the way, on stadium capacity, I said 65,000.

Barry Williams
131 Posted 26/01/2018 at 15:36:55
I don't have a customer number, thus can't do it, despite being registered on the site! I suppose that is what happens when you live away for so long and aren't a regular match goer anymore!
David McMullen
132 Posted 26/01/2018 at 15:37:00
Good point Roger (129). You can also question it another way if they've done the designs with Meis then is this survey just a token gesture?
Paul Hughes
133 Posted 26/01/2018 at 15:42:30
Just done the survey myself; definitely needed some thought, particularly the bits where your scores for 10 or so options had to add up to 100.

David (#151), there was an option for 4 stands with gaps, however, I plumped for filling in the corners and sticking the away fans in one of them. I also found myself answering 'a good range of reasonably-priced ale, quickly served' to about half a dozen questions.

Rob Halligan
134 Posted 26/01/2018 at 15:57:19
Roger (#129). I assume there is already more than one design for the new stadium, and judging by what the majority want, then the club will go for that particular design.

I've gone with the traditional four sided stadium but with all four corners seated. Both ends to be "home ends", with the away fans stuck in one corner, a bit like old Trafford. I would still like to see the stands reaching right down as close as possible to the pitch.

One question was about what feature would you like at the new stadium? Mine would be that every night, 365 days a year, the stadium to be lit up in a striking blue, which can be seen from land, sea and air. Imagine ships sailing up the Mersey in the dark, or flights approaching Liverpool airport and the first thing they see is our new stadium.

Chris Watts
135 Posted 26/01/2018 at 16:10:03
Crikey.... I work for the Police and they are known as a cynical bunch but not a patch on Everton fans.

There is nothing to argue about in these key principles. We spend a lot of time moaning the club has no long-term plan and, when they show one, it is shot down as fluff.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Anyone disagree with any particular principle?

David McMullen
136 Posted 26/01/2018 at 17:57:58
Eddie (#127) the swirling winds is exactly why I favour a retractable roof, that and the fact that it would be bitterly cold. Plus it's a "first" for the Premier League.

My dad worked on the docks, he'd come home frozen so I think I do speak with some knowledge. I was told he even worked on the Bramley-Moore dock. Ah well...

But I read that Meis on Twitter a few months back questioned why we would want a (covered) roof!

Rob Halligan
137 Posted 26/01/2018 at 18:03:27
Chris (#136). Probably all the RS!

Has anyone else put forward any specific features they would like seen on the new stadium?

Terence Tyler
138 Posted 26/01/2018 at 18:19:56
Rob, I have asked for a traditional chippy, and a replica of the Winslow.
Rob Halligan
139 Posted 27/01/2018 at 00:04:29
Some great ideas for a new stadium here. No:4 would be great for us


Laurie Hartley
140 Posted 27/01/2018 at 02:44:11
Rob (#138) – guilty as charged on the "fluff" comment but I did realise the error of my ways and said so @125 & 126. One thing though – I am many things but RS is not one of them.

What I would like to see incorporated as a major features of the design are as follows:

Dock drained off and walls reinforced so that the following could be achieved:-

● Playing surface sunk into dock 3 metres below quay level.
● Supported by columns and suspended slab.
● Two levels of car park below. (Columns and suspended slab)
● Eight sided stadium - two long sides, two shorter sides behind the goals, four wedge sides (one at each corner.
● Lower level of seating from pitch to quay level
● Three metre wide walkway all round the ground at quay level.
● Upper level of seating three metres above walkway.
● No upper level of seating on river short side – just a big retractable window like the Lucas Oil Stadium.
● The level at the short end could be used as a stage or temporary seating stands.
● Blue & white lattice work walls at the base of each seating level.
● Sixty thousand (60,000) seating capacity.

Eric Myles
141 Posted 27/01/2018 at 05:58:44
Laurie (#126), look forward to it. I'll be there from whatever part of the world I'm in at the time, currently Maldives but 'home' is Thailand until I retire. Just hope they build it big enough for all of us.
Laurie Hartley
142 Posted 27/01/2018 at 06:36:57
We'll have a great time, Eric – Dave's bringing the pies:-


They are great.

Eric Myles
143 Posted 27/01/2018 at 07:49:29
I think I've had one before Laurie, at Victoria Park watching Collingwood vs St. Kilda.
Laurie Hartley
144 Posted 27/01/2018 at 09:01:32
I bet you Collingwood won (My Ozzie rules team is St Kilda).

Coincidentally – Collingwood nickname is “The Pies”.

As I am shouting the “grog” and Dave is bringing the pies, the Tomato Sauce is your responsibility.

Anthony Newell
145 Posted 27/01/2018 at 09:02:07
PMSL @ Ian Linn.

I'll lend you my watch so you can tell me the time.

Rob Halligan
146 Posted 27/01/2018 at 09:12:34
Laurie (#141). My comment @ post (#138) was not directed at you but the RS in general. Though looking back at your posts I can understand why you would think that. I apologise for any confusion, as I certainly did not aim my post at you.
Laurie Hartley
147 Posted 27/01/2018 at 09:35:45
Rob - all good. It’s hard yards at the moment.
Paul A Smith
148 Posted 27/01/2018 at 09:47:29
David (#131),

I am a fan of the Lucas Oil stadium. I think it would look perfect if the original look was built with Blue Brick Columns that stand out from distance.

The Lucas Oil stadium in my opinion is a great shell design that could tweak to Everton standards.

The outside has an industrial look that fits the area and again with a few tweaks could be designed to fit in with the history and future around Bramley-Moore.

I wouldn't like to see the stadium totally repeated but the actual shape and material look like a great starting point for us to build a Colosseum that doesn't change the look of the area in a sore thumb fashion.

Laurie Hartley
149 Posted 27/01/2018 at 10:24:26
Paul - Lucas Oil is a fantastic stadium and very “Everton”.

Just can’t see Dan Meis getting away with plagiarising it.

But who knows.

Paul A Smith
150 Posted 27/01/2018 at 12:24:13
I'll be honest, Laurie, I don't want to think of Dan Meis very much. We hear too much about the man already and we still have no drawings or evidence of his homework.

He is just a face and name to me like everybody else and I think convincing the powers around the city is bigger than anything at this point. If that can be done? Dan Meis has to prove his introduction to our supporters is not just a story to drag people along.

The day we start seeing his work put into practice I will start feeling excited. Until then, the 11 slouches we put our faith in are more of a worry.

I have got to be honest here, watching a poor team in a lovely stadium is never going to excite me.

Eric Myles
151 Posted 27/01/2018 at 14:13:24
Unfortunately, Collingwood did win, Laurie, and St Kilda became my Aussie Rules team that day.
Gerard McGregor
152 Posted 30/01/2018 at 20:55:00
The 11 points are typical vacuous corporate speak. No details such as whether there will be a running track. I fear Moshiri is taking our club away.
Jerome Shields
153 Posted 30/01/2018 at 22:06:02
I would rather have 11 players playing as a team, rather than 11 principles.

Only when I see action rather than inaction will I believe that a new stadium is going to be built.

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