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Harry Hockley
1 Posted 20/06/2019 at 19:55:38
I'm hearing Chelsea are willing to negotiate on Kurt Zouma. Don't know if this story holds any weight. I sure hope so.
Derek Knox
2 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:02:21
I saw this before Lyndon but put it down to journo mischief again, I would be very surprised with the situation Chelsea are in possibly even considering this.

Let's face it they have a Transfer Ban (which doesn't look like being overturned) they have no Manager at present, the owner is prohibited from entering the country, Cahill has left, Rudiger is out injured for a while.

I know they have a massive pool of players, so maybe if Frank Lampard is given the post of Manager he may prefer Tomori, who he had on loan at Derby, to Zouma, with Christensen, Ampadou and I am not sure who else, as first choices.

Maybe Zouma has asked for assurances of game time and having not received that guarantee has said "stick your Club where the sun don't shine I want to go to Everton where I am wanted and loved, so there". :-)

Rob Halligan
3 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:10:27
Derek, they also have David Luiz who has just signed a new contract. As you say though, Rudiger is out long term, possibly as far as November, so it's highly unlikely they will sell Zouma. From what I could gather last week, the only thing stopping Chelsea selling Zouma was their transfer ban.

We live in hope though, and it would be brilliant if we could pull this one off.

Richard Mason
4 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:15:13
I personally don't think Chelsea will sell. The rumour about the llorente keeps popping up. The real sociedad CB
Derek Knox
5 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:16:02
Rob, forgot about Luiz, so with Rudiger due back after the season starts, it could be possible, they obviously don't prize him that highly, having loaned him to Stoke last year and to us this season just gone.

Fingers crossed Rob, be just like a new signing.

Ray Smith
6 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:17:55
I think this might just have some credibility, rather than media rumour mongering.

We will have to wait until Lampard is installed as manager, and runs the rule over his squad.

As we all know he won’t be in a position to buy players, however there are players who were on loan, especially Derby, who he knows and may well be ahead of Zouma in the packing order.

It would be a great signing, but I don’t expect any progress on this for a week or two.

Neil Thomas
7 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:19:52
I’m doubtful we will pull this off, but if we do, it could be our most important signing.
Rob Halligan
8 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:27:29
According to Wikipedia, Zouma signed for Chelsea in January 2014, signing a 5½-year contract. I cannot see anything to say he has extended his contract with Chelsea, so doesn't that mean that his contract expires at the end of this month, and therefore he would become a free agent?
Darren Hind
9 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:29:02
We finished 8th after a season with Zouma... So by doing the same thing, we would get a different result?

Footballers pleeeezz!

Graham Lloyd
10 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:29:02
Chelsea are into cattle trading and are going to work a premium on us buying Zouma. I want Zouma too but I wouldn't play to the tune of Chelsea. It's good we are also looking at other centre-halves.
John G Davies
11 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:30:07
Neil 6,

It definitely would be our most important signing. Zouma is a top-class centre-back, one who I would be really happy if we could sign him.

Future Everton captain? For me, yes... food for thought for fellow ToffeeWebbers.

Brian Williams
12 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:34:16
He's contracted to Chelsea 'til the end of June................2023.

He signed a 6-year contract in July 2017.

However! If the stories are true, then Everton would not be "opening negotiations" with a club determined not to sell.

Derek Knox
13 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:34:45
Rob, I'm liking it even more now, I didn't know what his contract situation was, but if it is like you suggest, surely something would have surfaced along those lines by now, hope Zouma thinks long and hard about his situation, 5 seconds should do it.

It could be similar to Vlasic, if he says he wants out, even with all that's going on at Chelsea, no Club would want to keep players who want to move away and have expressed a desire to do so.

Tommy Surgenor
14 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:35:27
I choose to believe that we have finally learnt our lessons and have the right man in charge of transfers. This could be a negotiating tactic to lower the price demand of Llorente. Or Llorente could be a tactic to pressure Chelsea into an early decision on Zouma. Going to be an interesting summer.

I'm surprised we haven't got a deal over the line yet. Didn't Marco say we knew our targets in January? Shouldn't we of been working out some of the finer details since then? He seemed confident that we would be capable of getting who we wanted.

Perhaps, it's all waiting on the chain to begin (ie, one big transfer that has a ripple effect)? Could be waiting on Lukaku's move to trigger the merry-go-round.

Rob Halligan
15 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:38:34
Cheers Brian. I'll take your word on that as I can't find it anywhere when his contract runs too at Chelsea.
Rob Halligan
16 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:40:44
FFS just seen it on Wikipedia 😞😞😞
Tommy Surgenor
17 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:41:09
Not sure how accurate this website is:

But backs up Brian #10s post about a contract extension.

Strangely though, it appears as if he took a minor pay cut to sign that extension! Zouma would probably double his wages coming to us as that website claims he is on £40k

Also read elsewhere our loan fee for last year was £8 million.

Mike Allison
18 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:41:26
Rob, Transfermarkt has his contract as being until 2023.
Brian Williams
19 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:41:26
Still hope Rob.
Derek Knox
20 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:44:44
Tommy, you could well be right there, but we know Zouma fits in, Llorente by accounts is allegedly a better player, but also untried in the Premier League. Like you say it will be interesting which one we end up with.

In Brands we trust, in Kenwright we rust!

Tony Abrahams
21 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:46:59
If you want to watch footballers, Darren, I hope you're watching Germany's Unde-21s on Sky, mate.

I'd love Zouma back at Everton, especially the way we started keeping clean sheets towards the end of the season, so let's see what happens next...

Brendan Curtin
22 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:48:28
I believe this is Everton doing due diligence in checking or attempting to sign Zouma knowing Chelsea will knock it back and then they can say we tried.

I believe they have set up a transfer elsewhere and are just playing the waiting game...

Andrew Ellams
23 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:49:57
With rumours of Jorginho following Sarri to Juve, could Chelsea be about to implode? For the first time since 2004, they can't buy their way out of it.
Brian Harrison
24 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:50:10
Well, papers this time of year print a lot of nonsense, so I don't know if this is true or not, but let's assume it's true. So I couldn't see Everton opening negotiations with Chelsea unless Zouma was happy to move here permanently.

Or maybe Zouma has said nothing and we are hoping that Chelsea agree to sell and Everton hope they can persuade Zouma to sign for us.

Rob Halligan
25 Posted 20/06/2019 at 20:50:53
Cheers Brian, Mike and Tommy. Derek, sorry for raising your hopes only to have them quickly dashed.

Chelsea also have Marcus Alonso, who although primarily a full back, has I believe played centre back for Chelsea, and also Cesar Azpilicueta and Davide Zappacosta as defenders, so they are not exactly short in that department.

Martin Berry
26 Posted 20/06/2019 at 21:06:54
We would be crazy not to be interested and Chelsea would be crazy to sell; however, they have so many players on loan and they may feel they haven't missed him having won the Europa League.

Added to this, I should imagine that there are other "suits" deciding who stays and goes rather than a yet to be appointed Manager?

Could be a fantastic piece of business considering Madchester Utd are being told £80m for Maguire if true?

I think a deal is on the table and we will be quickly told yes or no as to whether they will sell, then we can move to other targets if not.

Neil Thomas
27 Posted 20/06/2019 at 21:18:55
John @9,

Centre-halves are all about partnerships, and getting used to each other, and I found last season that, the more he and Keane played together, the better they became.

Steve Ferns
28 Posted 20/06/2019 at 21:29:24
Chelsea have Rudiger, Christensen and Luiz as first choice. Then there's the lad Lampard had on loan at Derby and Ampadu who is extremely highly rated. That's five centre-backs. Would they really turn down £22m for someone who's third choice at best and more likely fourth choice and blocking the way for two of their talented youngsters?

Personally, I think Zouma is ahead of Luiz and Christensen but behind Rudiger. Whichever way you look at it, Chelsea usually cash in on surplus players they don't think good enough. I wouldn't be surprised if a deal can't be done.

Paul Birmingham
29 Posted 20/06/2019 at 21:39:41
If there’s a chance I hope this deal gets done. Part of a solid spine in the team that’s essential, and he was rock solid and improved as the season progressed.

As ever we live in hope eternal.

John G Davies
30 Posted 20/06/2019 at 21:42:40
Neil, 24

I agree, Zouma is one I rate very highly. In saying that I've yet to see a single player solely responsible for a teams success or failure.

Neil Thomas
31 Posted 20/06/2019 at 22:00:35
That's because there isn't one, John.
Hugh Jenkins
32 Posted 20/06/2019 at 22:06:38
Derek (1) - There is a report in the Telegraph - so it is being reported by the more serious and responsible papers.

On the matter of have we approached Chelsea before approaching Zouma - nowadays all the sounding out is done via the player's agents - so I think we can safely assume that:-

1) Zouma knows;

2) he has been made an offer that is acceptable to him / his agent and he is therefore willing to come, otherwise;

3) there would be very little point in "Everton opening negotiations with Chelsea".

4) It may of course come to nothing but, given 1), 2) and 3), it is fairly encouraging that we have got this far.

My fingers et al. are well and truly crossed.

Andrew Keatley
33 Posted 20/06/2019 at 22:07:28
Chelsea also have England Under 21 captain Jake Clarke-Salter - who partnered Tomori in the opening game of the European Championships earlier in the week.

Having said that, I don't expect either Tomori or Clarke-Salter to break through at the very top level, and both may go out on loan again this year.

Grant Rorrison
34 Posted 20/06/2019 at 22:09:40
Darren 8. Yeah, get John Stones back. We finished 11th twice with him at the back.
Derek Knox
35 Posted 20/06/2019 at 22:22:33
Thanks Hugh!

John G, and Neil, I would argue that Eden Hazard made that difference at Chelsea, and when he was out, which was fairly rare, they looked very ordinary indeed. They will have one hell of a job this coming season without him.

John G Davies
36 Posted 20/06/2019 at 22:25:04
Grant, 31

Fair point.

Neil Thomas
37 Posted 20/06/2019 at 22:27:58
Derek 32
I agree, they don’t know just how much yet, but changing the subject a little, if City are looking for another striker, where does that leave Jesus? If it’s a striker we need, and we’re aiming high, why not go guns blazing for him
Derek Knox
38 Posted 20/06/2019 at 22:51:47
Neil, funny you should mention that, I heard quite some time ago that he wasn't happy playing the sub's role (often unused at that) maybe agent Richie could put his arm round him. I assume he lives in the Manchester area, so it wouldn't be a major upheaval to join the 'Blue Brazil' just down the road. :-)
Tom Bowers
39 Posted 20/06/2019 at 22:53:42
I think we all would like Zouma back but it is doubtful now.
In Keane and Mina we have a possible strong central defence and with Digne and Coleman still strong fullback options the defensive back line should have a good season depending on other issues being resolved such as Gomes, Gana, Macca and Schneiderlin with Tom Davies also in the mix.

It may well be that Silva has to start looking at another experienced centre back as cover unless he feels Holgate could step in when needed but I am not too sure about that unless it's one of those games were you can play three at the back.

Chelski being in Europe however, can attract a class centre back on loan if they don't want Zouma.

Brian Williams
40 Posted 20/06/2019 at 23:13:06
Tom. Chelsea's transfer ban covers loans too, though they actually CAN buy players.

They just can't play 'em.

Sam Hoare
41 Posted 20/06/2019 at 23:23:20
I don't see any better (fit) centre backs than Zouma at Chelsea currently. I'd be shocked if they sold him. Unless their transfer ban is lifted and they bought new defenders.

I'm curious to know who Brands has lined up after Zouma. Llorente doesn't strike me as an obvious fit with the Premier League. I would love to pip Arsenal to Saliba from St Ettienne; that would send a good message. When's the last time we beat a team above us to a signing they wanted?

Jamie Sweet
42 Posted 20/06/2019 at 23:36:24
We've got a pretty solid record of turning successful loan deals into permanent ones:

Gomes (I'm sure), Lukaku, Deulofeu, Barry, Lennon, Pienaar, Howard, Arteta.

Once Everton has touched you.

Brian Wilkinson
43 Posted 21/06/2019 at 00:30:09
John@27 Neville Southall 86 comes close mate.
Mike Gaynes
44 Posted 20/06/2019 at 00:40:19
Steve #25, Ampadou is only 18 years old and has played ten minutes in the Prem. Tomori, while a bit older at 21, has never played a minute for the club. Either would be a dicey third choice for a Champions League side. And Rudiger's timetable for returning is uncertain.

Plus I happen to agree with you that Zouma is a better player than Christensen, and I think it's more likely than not that Lampard will agree as well.

Bottom line is I've assumed from the start that he's already gone. But we gotta try, right? Who knows?

Brian #37, I didn't know that. They can actually buy players and put 'em in the fridge until the ban is lifted? That's weird.

Tommy #15, Spotrac has been my go-to source for this information for years, and I find both them and Transfermarkt to be quite accurate.

Tommy Carter
45 Posted 21/06/2019 at 00:54:17
Zouma had a really strong last 3 months of the season. There is n0 denying he has vast top-level Champions League experience. But there is a bit of Distin about Zouma and this is the reason he will never be the main man at a really top club.

By the Distin comparison, I don't just mean the odd really fatal mistake. He has that, for sure. Against Arsenal at the Emirates earlier in the season, he was abysmal and at fault for 2 goals.

I mean, his physical supremacy often looks impressive but it is mostly the result of poor decision making, positioning and reading of the game.

For me, if a central defender is often making last-ditch steaming tackles and using sheer pace to destroy an attack, then you've got a problem and a big one. I always felt this with Distin. And I feel it with Kurt Zouma.

This doesn't make him a bad player, not at all. But we have seen his ceiling.

I would rather we build around Mina, with a view to signing another to eventually replace Keane... or see Holgate given an opportunity to develop.

Derek Thomas
46 Posted 21/06/2019 at 01:01:56
All they had to say when we first asked was No. They haven't yet. So it's wait and see.
Mike Gaynes
47 Posted 21/06/2019 at 01:07:16
Tommy #42, agreed, and that Arsenal game wasn't his only early-season disaster. But to me the point is how much he improved over the course of the season. In all the problem areas you pointed out and more, he got better and better. The positional errors and ballwatching were gone by spring, and he was reading the game really well from what I saw.

Frankly, it surprised the hell out of me.

Jim Harrison
48 Posted 21/06/2019 at 01:34:42
I suppose it really boils down to whether the player believes he is going to get game time at Chelsea...

He's too good to be on the bench at this stage of his career, but is he good enough for the level they are playing at?

Chelsea generate good money from buying young, loaning out, and then selling at a profit, but they have just banked big on Hazard so there is no pressure to generate funds, especially if they can't spend them!!

He would be a good signing for us but, with Gomes likely to sign too, it would be good to see some new faces coming in soon. If both the loan players sign, we are basically just back to par with last season's squad. A bit like the situation after Bobby's first season.

Darren Hind
49 Posted 21/06/2019 at 06:15:22

I wonder if it's worth pointing out that we've spent 300 million quid on players since then? Probably not...

Tommy Carter — spot on!

Eric Myles
50 Posted 21/06/2019 at 06:54:13
Maybe we can strike a deal where we loan him again but Chelsea have a recall option?

Not ideal for us if the option is exercised but could be worth a try if Silva thinks we have a decent short term back up.

Ray Robinson
51 Posted 21/06/2019 at 08:47:49
Eric, as I understand, it there is no longer a recall option outside transfer windows. So if Chelsea wanted to keep their options open they would have to agree to loan him until January at the least. I'd sign the lad in a heartbeat. He looked happy here and is a better player than Mina, in my opinion.
Brian Williams
52 Posted 21/06/2019 at 08:59:36
Brian #37, I didn't know that. They can actually buy players and put 'em in the fridge until the ban is lifted? That's weird.

Yeh, I think Barca, wasn't it, did it. But you'd have to really want someone and they'd have to be prepared not to play for a good while.

I think, if I'm not mistaken, you can buy but not register or something like that, could be wrong though Mike, perhaps each ruling is different.

Anyway can't see 'em doing it even if they can.

Chelsea cannot register players in the next two transfer windows ie. this summer and next January, so the whole of the 2019-20 season. It does not actually stop them buying players. But because the players cannot be registered they cannot play - as Barcelona did in buying Arda Turan and Aleix Vidal in 2015 while under a transfer embargo. But very few players will agree to this. Chelsea can sell players and can also recall players from loan. The only exception is the Chelsea’s women’s team and the futsal team who can trade as normal. Chelsea must also pay a fine of £460,000 and have 90 days to “regularise the situation of the minor players concerned” which may involve forcing them to move on anyone brought to the club in contravention of the rules.

Aidan Wade
53 Posted 21/06/2019 at 09:07:35
Maybe one of the other 40-odd players Chelski have out on loan are centre-backs? I don't think they're quite desperate yet.
Pete North
54 Posted 21/06/2019 at 09:15:51
Brands knew Chelsea's situation before the season finished yet the club has been clear that it would pursue Zouma over the summer.

When Jags left, he said he had had to wait on the club making a last-minute decision on whether to keep him. This suggests there is a level of at least optimism about getting a target centre-back to replace him.

The Llorente story has all the hallmarks of a complete fabrication. Club just waiting on a £30m offer and such nonsense coming out of Spain. So, the little evidence we have suggests we will probably get one of our centre-back targets. There's a fair chance it will be Zouma but it won't be Llorente.

Alan J Thompson
55 Posted 21/06/2019 at 10:38:59
Despite the "know-it-alls", this is the right noise and, if true, a step in the right direction – not to mention the timing – if nobody at Chelsea may be really sure whose instructions are to be followed.
Brian Williams
56 Posted 21/06/2019 at 10:54:07
Alan #55.

Aye, Alan, I can see it now at preseason at the Bridge:

Chelsea manager: "Eh, where's big Kurt"?
Somebody else: "Er, he got sold to Everton, boss."
Manager: "What? Who the fuck sanctioned that?"
Player: "Don't know, boss."
Manager: "How much did we get for him?"
Player: "I hear it was £5m plus that guy over there."

New guy walks over to new manager with the biggest whitest grin ever seen. "Hello, I'm Oumar."

Steve Ferns
57 Posted 21/06/2019 at 10:56:47
Nice one, Brian!
Brian Williams
58 Posted 21/06/2019 at 11:02:04
If only, eh, Steve? :-)
Tony Everan
59 Posted 21/06/2019 at 11:10:41
Silva has told Brands what he wants and Zouma and Gomes are at the top of that list. I think Brands will do his utmost to get Zouma in, but Chelsea's situation makes it very difficult.

However, Mr Brands is the main man and I wouldn't rule out him getting Zouma signed up, even when the odds are against him.

ps: ; ) Love it, Brian.

Add on the end ...."Anyone know where my locker is?"

Rob Halligan
60 Posted 21/06/2019 at 11:14:14
Brian, with what you're saying about Chelsea being able to buy players but not play them, could they not buy the player then loan him back to his original club?

So For example, they buy Van Dijk from the RS then loan him back to the RS for 12 months. The ban is, in effect a 12 month ban after all.

Denis Richardson
61 Posted 21/06/2019 at 11:14:49
Did we really pay Chelsea £8m to loan Zouma for one season? He’s on £2m a year wages so Chelsea would have gotten a £6m profit on him last year - and they still own him!

Given most clubs loaning out players they don’t need/want pay a large part of their wages, that seems like a terrible deal for Everton - if true. He would have been sat on Chelsea’s bench all season had he not been loaned out so can’t see how/why we would have paid £8m.

Brian Williams
62 Posted 21/06/2019 at 11:21:46
Rob, no because to do that they'd have to register the player mate and that's what they're not allowed to do.

Denis. Everton paid £2m loan fee for Zouma, mate.

Kim. I noticed that too, but just giggled to myself. That's the gentlemanly thing to do. ;-)

Kim Vivian
63 Posted 21/06/2019 at 11:24:07
Steve (28) – Sorry, but... Grammar police alert.

I think you mean "...I would be surprised if a deal can't be done", or "...I wouldn't be surprised if a deal could be done". What you actually said interprets as "...I would be surprised if a deal could be done". Double negatives 'n' all that.

Hope you're well, and I thoroughly enjoy your posts and insight, by the way. Keep it up – and just ignore my pedantics!

Bobby Mallon
64 Posted 21/06/2019 at 12:35:12
Why are so many getting hung up on Zouma?
Derek Knox
65 Posted 21/06/2019 at 12:53:34
Kim, we wouldn't ignore your pedantics, and neither should you, better make an appointment with your Doctor, before they become seriously painful! :-)
Simon Smith
66 Posted 21/06/2019 at 13:17:10

You should have a quick read through of your post too
A couple of extra words in there.

John G Davies
67 Posted 21/06/2019 at 13:47:27
Two reported targets for the manager who many hang their hat on "if Pep wants him that proves he is a good player"

Koulibaly & Maguire.

Are they – at £80 million and £60 million – better players than Zouma?

Tommy Surgenor
68 Posted 21/06/2019 at 14:14:25
Brian #62

Where did you see the £2 million loan fee? I seen it in a few places (not sure how accurate they were) as €8 million.

Hugh Jenkins
69 Posted 21/06/2019 at 14:50:00
Hi Kim - (63), shouldn't that read, "just ignore my pedantry"?
Brian Williams
70 Posted 21/06/2019 at 14:55:00
Tommy #68.

It was on one of the reliable sites but can't remember which one sorry. Common sense should tell us though that we'd never pay £8m for a season-long loan.

I'll see if I can find it again and post a link, mate.

Mike Gaynes
71 Posted 21/06/2019 at 15:27:51
Aidan #53, yes, Chelsea has two additional veteran CBs out on loan, neither of whom they would remotely consider first-team material.

One is Tomas Kalas, who joined the club in 2010 and has made two appearances. He has basically spent the last eight seasons out on various loans, mostly in the Championship, last at Bristol City.

The other is Matt Miazga, who just spent a half season on loan at Reading after previous loans to Vitesse and Nantes. He's a USA international so I've seen a lot of him, and he's truly awful. Right now he's at the Gold Cup, deservedly riding the US bench behind two MLS players (who aren't much good either).

So yeah, I'd say Chelsea are desperate at the moment.

Brian Williams
72 Posted 21/06/2019 at 15:51:28
Telegraph I think, original story.

Everton have finally completed a deal to sign Chelsea defender Kurt Zouma on loan for the season - more than 23 hours after the transfer window closed.

The Premier League have finally signed off on the Frenchman's move to Goodison Park, making him the Toffees fourth signing in the last 24 hours.

Both Everton and Chelsea submitted deal sheets before Thursday's 5pm deadline.

And although both were made to wait, Zouma has completed a move to join the Merseysiders' for the 2018-19 campaign, for a loan fee of £2million.

Paul Bernard
73 Posted 21/06/2019 at 16:35:45
Re: Kalas and Maiziga loans, they are never going to be first teamers unless Chelsea got desperate. They buy players to 5-6 year deals and loan them out for 4 of them before selling once they have one good season. It’s a FFP issue to balance the books.

They have had at least £5m in loan fees for Zouma. If they sell him for £25-30m to us then they have made £35m from a player who barely played for them and only cost a decent fee.

Tommy Surgenor
74 Posted 21/06/2019 at 16:46:31
Thanks Brian.

I wasn't doubting you. It was just (at the time) the only references of the fee I could find were on Transfermarkt.

I had no idea how reliable a site it was. It did seem a little high but I had hoped the figure included his salary.

Derek Knox
75 Posted 21/06/2019 at 16:51:18
Paul @ 73, I believe Chelsea paid £12M for Kurt Zouma from Saint Etienne, so yes they have almost got their money back in loan fees, on their outlay already.

As much as I would love to have Zouma in our ranks, as with Andre Gomes, I wouldn't go too high in terms of a Transfer Fee. By that I mean, anything well over £30M would have M Brands possibly thinking elsewhere.

I believe Mr Brands to be a shrewd operator and savvy with what players are actually worth, against what is being asked for, as opposed to the Koeman - Walsh system we'll send a blank cheque, just fill in the amount, it's not our money anyway approach.

Brian Williams
76 Posted 21/06/2019 at 16:53:00
No problem at all, Tommy. Always good to get info validated if possible, mate.
Mike Gaynes
77 Posted 21/06/2019 at 16:59:18
Paul #73, yep, and it sure is an interesting business model. Last time I checked they had 41 players out on loan somewhere.

Kalas is the one I can't figure out. They've signed him to two extensions and he's contracted thru 2021, but he's obviously never going to play for them.

John Pierce
78 Posted 21/06/2019 at 17:19:57
Zouma is not a top top centre-back, neither are Mina nor Keane, they all have limitations against the very best. They are just very good players.

The defensive improvement was down to a combination which gave more than the sum of its parts and the whole team finally started to learn they must do everything together, be it attack or defend, it definitely took the pressure of the back four.

Keane or Mina and Zouma blend well, I imagine there is a 2nd target in the same mould as Zouma if he cannot be secured. No great loss in my mind if we cannot get big Kurt Zeeeee!

Dale Rose
79 Posted 21/06/2019 at 17:20:06
I hope so... I just love this guy.
David Pearl
80 Posted 21/06/2019 at 17:31:56
Interesting read this thread. I'm wondering how much loan fee we had to pay to get rid of Mirallas and Sandro for the year. Surely they didn't command a fee and we paid a large portion of their wages.

Same with Bolasie. Very much think Sandro will see his contract out here. What a shit season he had.

John G Davies
81 Posted 21/06/2019 at 17:49:49
Just to clarify my earlier post. Zouma is reportedly around a £20 million fee.

Koulibaly is reported to command a £100 million fee. Is he an £80 million better player than Zouma?

Maguire is reportedly an £80 million fee. Is he a £60 million better player than Zouma?

The answer is no in both cases.

Jason Broome
82 Posted 21/06/2019 at 18:37:19
Tommy Carter @45

I disagree with your comments.

Zouma doesn't play anything like Distin. I would say more like Koulibaly. Therefore I guess Koulibaly is also a liability as they have very similar physiques and styles.

For one Distin didn't have the physical prowess and intimidation that Zouma brings to the field. Distin's positional awareness when under pressure and running backwards was suspect.

Zouma like Koulibaly is a solid centreback. For any striker or forward in the league he's a beast and fucking hard work...

Distin was a poor mans Lescott.

Last season it was reassuring to see strikers baffled and frustrated as they could not get past Zouma. He held the line incredibly well and playing alongside Zouma brought Keane's game on.

No defender can predict with certainty where the attacking team will place the ball, therefore breaking up attacks and winning the ball back as many times as he did clearly shows he reads the game pretty well.

It baffles me how dismissive we are of consistent good play and only focus on one or two human errors as the ultimate judge of a players ability. By this standard both Mina and Keane should hang up their boots as they made far more errors at the back than Zouma.

Zouma was our best defender last season and it showed. Not even a question I want him back.

Brian Williams
83 Posted 21/06/2019 at 18:39:08
David #80.

Going on the slightest possibility that you're serious, I'd ask in what weird and wonderful world would a lending club pay the loaning club a fee, and then pay part of the loanee's salary?

If you're NOT serious... then yeh, good one.

Steavey Buckley
84 Posted 21/06/2019 at 19:10:19
There are many rumours about players coming in, but not a lot about players moving out, because Everton need to balance the books to be successful.
Paul Bernard
85 Posted 21/06/2019 at 19:20:13
Derek and Mike, I think Chelsea have a good business model even if it is a conscious effort to avoid FFP.

As for Zouma's value, I used to spend a lot of time watching the top European leagues and Zouma and Hazard were two of the best young players at that time. I truly believe if we pay £30m for Zouma and he gets regular game time then he will be up there with the leagues best.

Same applies to Koulibaly, absolute beast with pace, strength and solidity. £30m player going up in value to £60-80m is the business model we need to adopt. Sell them at their maximum potential if we can't break the top 4 and re-invest again.

Grant Rorrison
86 Posted 21/06/2019 at 19:29:07
Darren 49. Do you think we would have finished higher than 8th last season if we had Stones instead of Zouma at the back?
Dermot Byrne
87 Posted 21/06/2019 at 19:33:56
Stones plays for Citeh. Who cares now?

Looking at NOW, surely Zouma is a very good player for us and, in my opinion, one that could be even better with our management.

Sometimes it is who fits at the right time. That isn't defeatest, just how great sides are often put together.

Darren Hind
88 Posted 21/06/2019 at 19:40:54
Gets better.

Not only are we forming arguments based on who is "reportedly" interested in who, we are using the "reported" fees to justify them.

Back in the real world, if Chelsea thought this guy was top class, they would not have loaned him out to be relegated.
If they thought he had improved that season, they would not have loaned him straight back out again to us.
If they thought he was anywhere near as good as some people are making out, there would not be any negotiations.
If other clubs thought he was top class, there would be a stampede to take him and the price would be out of our reach.

The days when seemingly every Evertonian was a knowledgeable football lover are over. When we get top class footballers, they're hounded until they leave to go and win trophies elsewhere. Yet ordinary players are welcomed with the most embarrassing of fanfares.

When I hear some of the things being said when we have signed very ordinary players, I have to say, I can't tell the difference between some Evertonians and your average Stoke fan.

Zouma is a young lad by centre-half standards and during that dozen or so game window, I think we may just have seen glimpses of what he is capable of becoming. A very good solid defender. He seems to like it here too and if we can get him at the right price, we would be mad not have him aboard, but "our most important signing"? ... Funnily enough, that's what the Stoke fans said when they tried to re-sign him.

Dermot Byrne
89 Posted 21/06/2019 at 19:47:43
"Zouma is a young lad by centre-half standards and during that dozen or so game window, I think we may just have seen glimpses of what he is capable of becoming. A very good solid defender. He seems to like it here too and if we can get him at the right price, we would be mad not have him aboard."

Shit man. Bang on.

The rest?

Brent Stephens
90 Posted 21/06/2019 at 19:53:19
Our player of the season for me. T'would be a big signing.

Denis Richardson
91 Posted 21/06/2019 at 20:01:33
Brian - thanks for clearing up the loan fee. So we basically paid his wages for the year.

Not too bad given he did well for us. Probably wouldn’t have finished as high so the extra prize money nets off.

Paul Tran
92 Posted 21/06/2019 at 20:15:08
I couldn't give a stuff whether Zouma is a 'top' player. He was our best centre-back last season, he knows he'll be a regular here, so it's a good move all round if he joins us.

Chelsea stockpile good players in the hope they find a gem. They loan them out to get experience, change manager every five minutes, then the new guy comes in and buys his favourites. All this while, in theory, they stay the right side of FFP and making a profit on the players they sell.

Pleasant surprise for me if Zouma's with us next season.

Jay Harris
93 Posted 21/06/2019 at 20:51:08
We finished the season with the 4th best defensive record and people still doubt Zouma's qualities?

Jeez, the lad was a beast in most games and for me is a no brainer. We will be weaker without him.

Jim Jennings
94 Posted 21/06/2019 at 21:52:22
“If Chelsea thought this guy was top class, they would not have loaned him out to be relegated.....

...If they thought he was anywhere near as good as some people are making out. There would not be any negotiations.”

Because Chelsea have never misjudged a player's potential or regretted letting him leave. Salah, De Bruyne, Lukaku...

Paul Dewhurst
95 Posted 21/06/2019 at 22:16:18
When you read posts like this I often wonder do we watch the same games and the same players!
Alan J Thompson
96 Posted 22/06/2019 at 03:32:54
Brian (#56); Sounds very similar to how we got Johnny Morrissey.
Mike Gaynes
97 Posted 22/06/2019 at 05:00:31
Off-topic, congratulations tonight to our man Cuco.

Martina captained Curacao to the greatest win in their history, a 1-0 shocker over Honduras in the Gold Cup. First-ever tournament victory of any kind.

Honduras got a ridiculous 35 shots and couldn't score.

Derek Knox
98 Posted 22/06/2019 at 08:54:13
Mike G, that should add about £5 and in effect double his Transfer fee!

By all accounts, he is still available most week-ends for Children's Parties, as long as there are no balls involved.

Derek Knox
99 Posted 22/06/2019 at 19:46:19
Could be encouraging news, if true,that a lot of the papers are reporting, allegedly Kurt Zouma has told friends and family, that he actually wants to return to Everton, amid the uncertainty about Chelsea's future in so many different areas.

If this is the case, and as appears likely, Frank Lampard becomes the new Manager, I hope he (Zouma) tells him exactly that. Any manager wants to know who he can rely on and who wants to be there at the start of his new tenure.

John G Davies
100 Posted 23/06/2019 at 08:10:49
From the Observer this morning:

"Should City end up doing the same for Maguire, it would simply confirm that the £48m spent on John Stones three years ago had not quite landed the complete defender Pep Guardiola had in mind. Stones's appearance record for City last season suggested something similar and, though the player's errors in an England shirt a couple of weeks ago were blamed on a lack of game time in the second half of the season, there must have been a reason Guardiola kept leaving him out in favour of the experienced, reliable but not exactly risk-free Vincent Kompany."

Emphasises the point of what we would be getting for £25 million if we bought Zouma.

Kim Vivian
101 Posted 23/06/2019 at 08:40:57
Hi, Derek (65) Ha ha – I've got some ointment now!

Hi, Hugh (69) – Yes. I believe you're right. Hmmm...

Darren Hind
102 Posted 23/06/2019 at 09:35:43
I think the reason John Stones still gets repeatedly brought up (even though next season will be the fourth since he left) is because he really embarrassed some Delilah-loving Evertonians.

They said he was too cocky, error-strewn and wouldn't make it. They said he would never play for a top club. Yet, the world's top two coaches did battle for his services. It eventually took £50M to land him (about £80M at today's rate) and he has played in a team that has won the last two Premier League titles.

Zouma could well be an Everton player soon, because the club he plays for doesn't seem too keen to keep him and the rest of the top seven have shown no interest. That could work out quite nicely for us, although quite how his possible arrival has anything to do with a departure which took place three years ago is beyond me.

Transfer fees are not dictated by an ill-informed Journo plucking figures from the air. They are arrived at like any other cost – supply and demand.

When a player leaves Everton, he no longer has any bearing on any business we do. "I've got nothing against him personally" obsessions won't alter that fact.

John G Davies
103 Posted 23/06/2019 at 11:18:39
"Transfer fees are not dictated by an ill-informed Journo plucking figures from the air. They are arrived at like any other cost – supply and demand."

Darren, you've just turned a £48 million pound transfer fee and "plucked" an £80 million fee from the air.

Tad contradictory?

Andrew Ellams
104 Posted 23/06/2019 at 11:35:11
Darren, but that top club has all but stopped playing him and look like bringing in another centre-half to move above him in the pecking order.

Whilst he's certainly not the disaster some on here and elsewhere are making him out to be, he's certainly not top drawer either.

Darren Hind
105 Posted 23/06/2019 at 15:37:26

Contrary to the ill-informed claims from people determined to pursue Stones for the rest of his career (He'll be distraught about that). Stones initially lost his place through injury. He suffered a groin strain and had to retire from the Bournemouth game.

Nearly three weeks later, Southgate tried called him up in March and Pep Guardiola flipped:

"He is injured. He is not ready to play. Stones made an effort in the last two days before the Schalke game. He was not good. We made a test for him today and he doesn't feel good. That is the reason he hasn't been training for us."

After playing him in all the big games up until then. I think this statement drives a coach and horses through the desperate claim that he was dropped because Pep didn't trust him.

I'm done talking about John Stones. He does not belong on this thread. This is about Zouma and our realistic alternatives if he decides not to Sign.

Holgate all day long for me.

Alan J Thompson
106 Posted 23/06/2019 at 15:59:26
"Zouma and realistic alternatives if he decides not to sign."

If that was the case what would be looking at, Mina and Keane as first choice with Holgate as back up and if any of them were injured and required a lengthy recovery time or even just 3 or 4 weeks who would step up as third choice, Feeney? Surely we wouldn't play three at the back for a prolonged time and would we buy a third central defender on that basis alone despite the fact that is what we are doing if we sign Zouma?

David Pearl
107 Posted 23/06/2019 at 16:08:40
Brian Williams.

Of course I was joking. I can't believe we actually got a side to take Sandro off us. Can you?

Now we will have him back and l will again be holding my breath till some other club takes some of his wages off our hands. Might be harder this time...

I'm now just having to lie down for a bit as I've just read above that Distin wasn't very good. Wasn't physical enough or something. The weird and wacky world of ToffeeWeb.

John G Davies
108 Posted 23/06/2019 at 16:13:56

That is factually incorrect. John was a substitute for every game after that period, except one when he didn't make the squad.

He was not selected to start in 14 out of 38 Premier League games. Why do you think that was?

Darren Hind
109 Posted 23/06/2019 at 00:22:32
Unless John Stones signs for Everton in the future, this is the last time I will talk about him on these pages.

Pep Guardiola – "He is a young player an international English player. He is a huge part of the reason why we won the title. I don't know how long I will be in Manchester, but as long as I'm here, John Stones will be with us.

When he is injured and comes back, injured and comes back, injured and comes back, it's not easy. I'm sorry for the guys who announce we are going to want to sell him – They LIE. I'm not going to comment on a transfer. It's fake news."

Thanks for clearing that one up, Pep.

Now... Perhaps we can start discussing the defenders who will be wearing ROYAL blue shirts next season?

John G Davies
110 Posted 24/06/2019 at 06:24:56
"I don't know how long I will be in Manchester, but as long as I'm her, John Stones will be with us."

He probably will be.

Question is: will Pep start him in more than the 24 league games he selected him to start last season? Pep did not select him to start in 14 league games last season. Fact.

If he was repeatedly injured, and you are using that as a reason he wasn't selected in 14 Premier League games, why was he on the bench in the vast majority of them games?

Happy to discuss Everton defenders as long as we stick to the facts.

Darren Hind
111 Posted 24/06/2019 at 09:45:58
Read the entire article. Pep states he put him on the bench even though he wasn't 100%. EVEN in the game before he told Southgate he was not fit to play

You sound like the knight in Monty Python. Your hatred for stones is hilarious. I don't know why Pep put him on the bench while he was not 100% you may need to ask him that. I do know that managers have been doing it since time began.

Read his comments. "Injured comes back, injured comes back, Injured comes back." He repeats it THREE times, almost certainly for the benefit of the morons who want to argue in the face of cast iron fact.

You have read a piece of wild speculation from a daft arsed journo. That's why ONCE AGAIN. you have introduced this half-witted argument to yet another thread. You thought Pep had proved your point.

Unfortunately for you, you were blissfully unaware of his statement dismissing foolish claims from people he brands Liars.

He makes a complete mockery of the argument you have so doggedly tried to win.

John G Davies
112 Posted 24/06/2019 at 14:26:37
"You sound like the knight in Monty Python. Your hatred for Stones is hilarious"

A touch of surplus emotion in your post, Darren. To jump from not rating a player as top class to being labelled as "hating" him is irrational and imbecilic.

There were 7 fixtures left after the "injury" you say kept him out. As he was left out of 14 Premier League starting line-ups, what is your reason for him being left out of the other 7?

If he's "the best centre-half in Europe", as you have described him, why would he be left out of them games?

"You have read a piece of wild speculation from a daft-arsed journo." Not sure what you are ranting about there. Can you expand on that?

In closing, it's debate. Keep a positive outlook and always look on the bright side of life.

Darren Hind
113 Posted 24/06/2019 at 14:58:24
The hatred and sad obsession you feel has been amply demonstrated down the years when you spent hours and hours and hours coming up with daft arsed theories and putting up idiotic speculation (see post 100) on threads this guy doesn't belong on

Nobody goes to that sort of trouble... unless they are desperate.

Read the article. the injury is clearly a niggling one and action took place 3 weeks before the England game. The manager brands your source a liar peddling fake news. You are simply making a Cheshire out of yourself.

David Cash
114 Posted 25/06/2019 at 09:54:29
John G,

We spoke about Stones on another thread recently. You were desperately trying to show him in a bad light. Your "opinions" about Stones make recent attacks against Jonjoe Kenny look like a eulogy.

You always seem to bring this ex-player into threads he doesn't belong on. Post #100 being the latest example.

You argue that it's not obsession. But that's how it's coming across. One thread was even closed because you wouldn't quit trying to denigrate him.

Peps statement ensures the debate is now out of runway. None of it matters. The guy doesn't play for us anyway. Let it go.

I know Dazza from school and Everton matches. After 28 years of being in The States, me and the family will be up in God's own city in July. We'll be having a big bash round his house. Why don't you come around and help us drink all his beer?

I can assure you he's nothing like the grumpy spikey character he appears to be on here.

He's far worse.

Sam Hoare
115 Posted 25/06/2019 at 10:14:28
In Zouma's case, I fear all it will take is the new Chelsea manager telling him that he will be first choice centre-back next season (which he surely will be given Rudiger's injury and Luiz's age) to make him stay.

It's a shame that Tomori was so woeful at the U21 Euros. Perhaps if he had put in a stellar tournament, it may have convinced the powers at Chelsea that he was ready to step up but as it is they would be absolutely bonkers to sell Zouma to us!

If they offer him a starting spot and a new contract, I'd be very surprised if he said no.

John G Davies
116 Posted 25/06/2019 at 11:48:46

Sounds like your both cut from the same cloth. A difference of opinion becomes an obsession?

Your drinking partner is the one prolonging the debate. Check his post out 109:
"Unless John Stones signs for Everton in the future, this is the last time I will talk about him on these pages."

Then have a look how many times he contradicts that. Thanks for the invite but I've got a more pleasant appointment having my teeth taken out.

David Cash
117 Posted 25/06/2019 at 12:27:20
Oh dear, John... what a nasty response to an offer of an olive branch. It kinda explains why Dazza didn't bother.

I'm not him and I certainly won't be engaging with you any further. You can claim you are merely offering opinion till you are blue in the face. But your morbid obsession, which spreads across several, threads is obvious to all.

Not that much of a Stones fan myself. But I'm really rather pleased that Pep's statement exposes your false claims tor what they are. The lies of a bitter man.


Michael Lynch
118 Posted 25/06/2019 at 14:42:05
It really is like one big family on here. But maybe that's cos my family is always fighting, slagging each other off, throwing strops and storming out of the room in a hissy fit. My wife and daughters hate football but they'd definitely feel at home on here; I might get them to join.
Justin Doone
119 Posted 25/06/2019 at 19:57:28
He would be a very good signing and I hope we bring back our best and most consistent defender from last year wither permanently or another season-long loan.

But I can't see it happening until Chelsea have overturned their transfer ban and I think it will run on and on and on...

We need to have another option in place. A top defender ready to hit the ground running.

Paul Dewhurst
120 Posted 25/06/2019 at 23:04:01
Hopefully now the Rent Boys it’s only a matter of time before Lampard says yes, once he’s in place they can make a decision yes or no. Hopefully it will come down to the player saying he wants to leave, it’s up to Lampard to make him want to stay. Fingers crossed Zouma likes the Chippys In Kirkby
Tony Everan
121 Posted 28/06/2019 at 09:08:36
A big factor maybe that Zouma is really pushing for the move.

He enjoyed his spell here immensely and has progressed as a footballer at Everton under Marco Silva. Marco will have told him if he signs he is a permanent first choice starter on his recent form.

Additionally there is a partnership factor with Keane.

The two players complemented each other in the last 1/3 of the season. They brought out the best in each other and fought together well. More importantly they both looked like they were really enjoying their football, playing with a smile on their faces whilst banging out clean sheets week after week.

All added up it wouldn't surprise me if he was pushing for a permanent move. With a manager, fans and teammates that are unanimous in their appreciation of him, it has got to be a good career move for him. Especially as we are a team on the up, top 6 and a trophy is really achievable for next season and that's just for starters.

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