Premier League — Week 11, & Rugby World Cup

In the rugby, England looked terrified albeit the Ref gave them nothing but almost like football (with the round thingy) they were frightened of trying anything, a theme for almost the entire tournament.

Oh for Coaches who are willing to try to be different and see if they can win by doing something original rather than just stopping the opposition from what they can do and hoping for the best.

Hang on, is that Mark Ella tackling Jonah Loma?

Hope still springs, apparently.

Alan, I don't normally watch rugby, but I watched that one because of the way they'd reportedly played the game against the All Blacks, and also because of posts you often see on ToffeeWeb saying how great and passionate rugby is compared to Everton's football.

I must say, I thought England looked stand-offish, with some appalling defending, disorganised even. They reminded me of Everton. Just goes to show, rather than rugby being better to watch than football, it all depends on the individual match. Some are good, some less so.

Alan & Stan. England looked beaten from the start - and, as Clive Woodward observed, lost in every key area - scrum, line out etc...

The lack of bottle was indeed very reminiscent of the current Everton side.

Maybe England's rugby hierarchy should consider replacing Eddie (no knighthood this year) Jones with Jurgen Klopp.

Stan,

At least when Everton come up short we can resign ourselves with the fact it's one club among 90 plus in the English league. In the rugby it's worse, when you consider the whole of the Northern hemisphere has only won once out of 9 competitions. Between us, we account for 6.5 of Earth's 7.3 billion people and we still cannot win! So oddly, that makes me feel much better about Everton.

What does "bottle" mean? Heart, desire, fight? Sometimes English slang is beyond me.

Mark

Not to make matters worse but where I'm from down South, "bottle" means ass. As in "Bottle and glass = ass"

"Bottle", a vessel to put drinks in. Or the opposite of being a shithouse.

Bottle = courage.

Paul, lol, I know what the literal definition is, haha. Thanks for the latter, succinct and to the point.

Any time, mate.

'Bottle' is as you suggest, Mark. As far as ass is concerned, in Kirkdale that was always 'The Kyber'!

Regarding the rugby, when on the eve of the game a life-long Welsh mate said he expected England to run up 40 points and win by plenty, so impressed had he been by their performance the previous week vs the All Blacks, my jaw hit the floor.

We wind up each other mercilessly over the England - Wales thing, never more so when it comes to rugby. So to hear that from him left me concerned about his health.

Today's performance was chalk and cheese. Things started badly and quickly got worse. They were routed by South Africa in every phase and aspect of the game.

Such a precipitous drop off from the performance of 7 days ago. Nobody in a white shirt did themselves justice today. They were outplayed in every aspect of the game and South Africa were fully deserving of their win.

In particular, giving that nation's history, it was so nice to see the Bok's black players running in the tries to seal the win.

Derek

Haha remember that film, "Carry on up the Kyber" the title makes better sense now

Here we say, "Everton, good for what ails ya!"

Kieran: Maybe there's a simple answer to this question (I'm not really a rugby fan), but in view of the dominance in rugby of countries in the Southern Hemisphere (as you rightly point out), it's a bit puzzling to me why the England team hasn't got more black players, especially given that Britain is multi-cultural. The team is predominantly white.

This contrasts with football, where in Britain there are loads of black players at the top. So British rugby still seems mainly white, whilst British football (which has far more money) is mixed.

Given the dominance and popularity of rugby in the Southern Hemisphere, you'd think there'd be a mixture of races in the England team, wouldn't you? I know rugby in England was traditionally white middle class stuff, but surely this has changed?

My dear wife reminds me that Mike Reid ex landlord of the Queen Vic (EastEnders) always referred to his posterior as his 'Aris'. Double slang - Short for Aristotle = Bottle and Glass = Ass!

We had our own slang and sayings in the Pool!

Stan,

Good point. I think part of the issue is that it's an "old boys club." I used to play club rugby, invariably the captain was the weakest player but a private school kid whose Dad and Grandad had been captains, coaches in the past.

We had one black student at my high school. Brilliant all rounder at sports, but the only one he was really embraced in was the football. The cricket and rugby teams seemed to be picked on birthright as we always had kids who'd never shown up for PE or sports suddenly in the team when it was time to play a game.

Kieran: Google reveals that no less than 56 of the 216 players selected for the 2018 RU Six Nations squads were born outside the country they were chosen for. The vast majority of that 56 were men of colour.

Plenty of diversity there, I think!

Derek,

But how many "men of colour" were born in those nations? It's one thing recruiting an established Fijian whose Grandad was Welsh, but there aren't many British-born non-whites who play the game. That's where they need to improve.

S#it win over a s#it club. Bournemouth that is.

Trouble is, Kieran, few English state schools play Rugby Union and have ever done so. Coventry used to be the single exception and I can recall, in amateur days, teams from that city such as Barker's Butts OBs, Broad Street, Cov Tech and Stoke OBs all travelled north to play the likes of Waterloo.

I believe that Rugby League - played mainly in Lancashire and Yorkshire, is very well represented by minorities. Leeds' Jamie Jones Buchanan is an active ambassador for such wider representation.

Villa one up as we await VAR...

Liverpool still have a penalty and a dodgy injury-time goal to come...

Can someone please let the other strugglers know that you're not allowed to take points off the big boys. I usually back the underdogs but, looking at the table now, I am cringing.

Ha,ha,ha! Liverpool break their record. VAR says no goal!!!

I don't agree that England lacked bottle today. There's are rugby players, not soft as shite footballers. South Africa were simply the better team on the day.

Southampton have realised they're playing Everton at home next week and it's given them a huge boost.

Mark(#5); Bottle is Cockney rhyming slang and has two derivatives, bottle and glass (or glarse as Southerners say) rhymes with arse and Aris, from Aristotle, bottle then as above.

SA defence was unplayable today.

I see Steve Bruce is working his magic again.

First time Everton were relegated, Sheff Utd survived just head of us on goal difference, Newcastle were next up just 1 point ahead of us.

David, if their defence was unplayable, why did they play them?

They have the lumps to prove it Paul.

Results not going our way today.

If something is unplayable, it can't be played, therefore if you have lumps you maybe should see a doctor.

Don't get caught up with a Gary 'boring as arseholes trying to rewrite the English language saying' Neville, as he's clueless, which means he has a clue, or does it? So confused.

Bill #71, drive and energy are what it's all about. I'm watching an example now. Southampton, just off being historically humiliated 9-0 at home, leading at City in the second half and holding them without a shot on goal so far.

That's drive. That's what we need to see from our guys.

Stan(#2); Talking to a Kiwi mate of mine, he said he was really impressed with the faultless way England demolished the All Blacks and when I mentioned that all the tackling was high he said that this is the latest theory in that it stops the tackled player getting a pass away as he falls. And we both watched in awe at replays of Jonah Lomu stepping both ways at full speed and Mike Catt still shocked on the ground in the same position as when Lomu approached him. What a great loss Lomu was. And for our American friends, several American football teams were trying to lure him to "gridiron" as we call it but he was a very proud Kiwi.

City still haven't had a shot on target, that's a bit meek from them today!?

One of thiose days for City so far. Final ball letting them down constantly. We know that feeling don't we?

Mike

I'm watching the same game. Man City just trying to walk the ball into the net.

Noticed that Jim. Southampton have been unplayable... so far.

Alan Thompson 32

Lomu was one the greatest athletes I've ever seen in any sport. Absolutely tragic his was stricken with kidney disease as a young man.

at the moment we are 18th with Southampton and Newcastle above us. added pressure for tomorrow

Sure, Bill, City's playing crap -- but I'm watching the Saints players throwing themselves in front of shots and winning the 1-on-1 challenges after being a world laughing stock for the past week, even donating their wages. This takes guts.

Shame City just scored.

Aguerooooooooo!!

We're sitting nice and pretty in the bottom 3 now...

There is a lovely picture of Steve Bruce sitting on the toilet reading a newspaper in one of the tabloids today. I kid not.

Brian @76 who's winning the November championship? Oh damnit, still Liverpool.

City 2-1

Yes come on Villa, hang on.

https://youtu.be/gQBY_JAxe9U

No Mark, they're "leading" it. They've not won it yet mate. Actually they've never won it and long may that last!

Thank god the season isn't yet 33% done, whew!

And there it is, boys.

Surprise, surprise, the feckers have been saved by Scroggy.

LOVE TIMMY CAHILL

For those that missed it - camera panned to him just as Man City scored against Southampton - and we was going mad!!

True blue

I suppose the difference though with Liverpool is they always go for the win, that's why they score so many late goals, whereas when we draw we are happy to draw and not win.

Effing redshite

No shit Jim! Jesus Christ, when will their luck ever run out?

they scored from a corner that never was..everything goes in their favour.

Mane has won it!

You can't really argue with their wins, they have bags of character and it's hard to see them losing a game this season let's be honest

Absolute bastards. Just knew it as soon as the board went up with 5 minutes.

There's the difference.

Tom, Shae Cahill just signed for Everton. Tim was there alongside him for the customary signature photograph. Very much the proud dad. True blue indeed.

87th and 94th minute to win. This is supposedly the toughest League in the world with the best coaches and players who are athletes, yet every week they scrape results at the death, with a lot of help (that we would never get) from officials. somethings not right somewhere.

The desire to win that Mane has is incredible. Bernardo Silva is the same for Man City. They just do not stop.

They are b******s, but they do have this habit of going for wins and getting into the other team's box at pace, in numbers. I'd like us to do that more often.

We currently sit in the bottom 3. Stop worrying about the rs. Who cares what they do. We have our own problems.

Paul, were back to up 17th. We can go to 12th with a two goal win and level with 10th. We need to win tomorrow.

They have mental strenght in abundance. We've never had it since 1995.

Kunal, 1995 is generous.

Yes Steve, and Silva could be mangabey of the month for November. You never know, there's only 3 games.

Anyone hear about some fight between Duncan Ferguson and Boa Morte?

Tony - I think 1995 is fair. The FA Cup run under big Joe and we trounced Spurs in that semi final.

It's the thing that we need the most, (BELIEF) but when people yearn for the days of David Moyes, I remember the knife to the gunfight, and how he used plucky little Everton?

I remember people saying that Kenwright saved us, stopped us going the same way as Leeds and Forest, and Blackburn and Leicester who have never had it so good since they went into administration, and you wonder why we are the way we are?

Fuck Liverpool, concentrate on Everton, the club who have played more top flight football than anyone but seem to have lost the pragmatism required to go and win trophies?

It's hard, I watch us play and see loads of people desperate to get behind our team, but the team don't give us enough to shout about. This leads to anger, it leads to frustration, but this can change, I just don't fucking know when?

Yes, Kunal, I'm afraid I think we've lacked mental strength - obvious seasons apart - since 1971. But I'm a miserable old git.

No, David @66, where's that come from?

RS are making the Premiership incredibly boring, winning almost every week with late goals. Klopp really has lucked out having Salah, Mane and Firmino. and it 's just a cast iron certainty they will win it this season but that is what is expected from the owners who have poured so much into the cub much like Abramovich at Chelski some years back.
However, our concern can only be our beloved Blues who are languishing so badly. Thank God it is still early in the season so that the powers to be can address the situation now so that they can recover and at least get back to being a competitive team.
We are all sick of the situation not helped by the RS miracles so come on Moshiri do something !!!

David 66 - where did you hear that? If it's true, Boa Morte needs his head checked (literally, I would imagine)

Some interesting results out of Germany today.

Frankfurt 5 Bayern Munich 1 (Boateng straight red in 9 minutes probably had a lot to do with that).

RB Leipzig 8 Mainz 0 (Lookman not even on the bench, as has been the case pretty much since he joined them).

The Eintracht win is a real shocker, Jay.

Wow. I'll have to make sure to watch the Bundesliga highlights. Bayern will sack the manager now. He's been hanging on by a thread for some time.

I'd love to see Schalke get into the top 4. I think they've got a shout. I like Wagner and obviously our boy is there. As somebody else pointed out somewhere, they're also a bit like us in some ways, culturally and historically.

The Bundesliga is particularly entertaining this year.

Scoring late goals is very good trait. We did it a lot in Martinez's 1st season.

Do people realize just how poor we have been in second halves of PL games this season

In our first 8 games, Richarlison's winner v Wolves was our only second half goal.

In the last two, Siggy's late strike v WHU and DCL's goal v Brighton in a losing cause are our only other second half goals in 10 games.

3 second half goals in 450 minutes of second half football.

Another reason we are struggling this season.

Slightly off topic... as a closet Hibs supporter, I detest VAR and wish it would be scrapped totally. However, watching Hibs v Celtic in the semi-final of the Scottish League Cup, the 2nd and killer goal for Celtic would 100% been ruled offside by VAR. Even though it's against the Hibs, I still hate it.

By the way, even though they lost, my boy McGinn wasn't out of place against Liverpool.

I spoke too soon... my boys have just pulled one back. Ha'way the Hibeees!

I watch the German league a lot. I have to say, it's far more entertaining than the Premier League.

Steve, I don't think Kovac will be sacked, at least not yet. He won the double last season and Bayern has been shredded by injuries. Besides, it would be sacking the wrong guy. Hoeness is the problem.

Tony, it sure is. Usually a dull, predictable league, but not this year. BTW I opined here a couple years ago that I'd like to see us bid for Thorgan Hazard, Eden's little brother and a Chelsea flop who was looking good at Monchengladbach. Dortmund got him instead and he looks to be finally turning into a major star there. (sighing wistfully)

The best Everton teams I've seen scored late goals, always looked for, and found, a way to win a game. They got into the other team's box with pace, purpose and intent. They wanted it. They meant it.

I'd like us to start doing that and have us talking about it, rather than looking at the other teams that play with the sense of purpose we'd like to see.

Yes, he's a very good player, Mike.

Paul, 79 - Do you know why Lookman isn't getting much game time with Leipzig?

Barry@ 83. He was out injured for a while. He's fit now. But no idea why he ain't playing.

Watford fans turning against the new manager with chants of "You don't know what you're doing".

Guess it's time for a change of manager at Watford!!

Ugh - VAR again. Chelsea concede a pen. Deolefeou manages to con VAR (but not the ref).

Watford getting a penalty for that is a disgrace. He kicked his foot they'll say, I know, I know, I fucking know, but decisions like this are definitely going to turn loads of genuine football lovers away from “the beautiful game of deceit“.

I thought they were singing that to the man in the VAR studio Rob, even though they've benefited from such a pathetic decision?

Yet again, a ridiculous penalty awarded by VAR after numerous looks by the VAR official. This time in Watford's favour. Deulofeu went down in stages and, in my opinion, was never touched.

I thought it was when Watford were making a substitution, Tony, and the fans disagreed with it?

How long did that VAR decision take to conclude it was a clear and obvious foul?

I was messin Rob, seen your post just after I saw that absolutely pathetic VAR decision, and I'm being honest when I say I wouldn't feel any joy if Everton benefitted from such a decision against any other team other than Liverpool!

Lookman is not fit now. He did not play because he was injured.

Meanwhile, I loved watching those scenes of celebration from the mostly black crowds in Port Elizabeth after the final. There was something politically poetic about that. The Springboks dominated from the first kick and totally outplayed a very poor english side who when push came to shove lacked bottle when they were up against it.

Congratulations to South Africa – and Lyndon! Many tears will be shed in England's public schools!

Paul 84, thanks - he might be back in England sooner than he thought.

Brent, they should still be looking at it in the morning, because how the fuck anyone can conclude that, that was a penalty is beyond me mate.

A slow painful death is what's going to happen to this once very exciting spectator sport, if something isn't done about some of these pathetic VAR decisions and the cheating involved in football imo.

Barry #83.

He's not getting much time because he's not the superstar some on here were claiming he is/was. He's played but he's not made the impact!

Duncan & Tony, apparently they had a little scrap in training a couple months ago. I wouldn't normally believe in gossip 3 separate fellers with blue connections have come in with the same story. No reports on who won or what is was over. Sorry.

Interesting to watch Chelsea this evening. How quickly did Lampard get them playing?? Not only has he done that but he's integrated new signings plus welcomed back 3 loans (that l count), and promoted a couple youngsters. Seems like the transfer ban could be a blessing in disguise. If Chelsea don't have this ban what happens? Well for a start we might of got Zouma and Abraham's. They would of gone out and spent a shit load as per usual. So perhaps there is a lesson here for us. That's right, get a good coach in.

Wish the players would show some fight on match day.

There is nothing wrong with VAR in itself. It's the way it's being used by the officials and the fact that many of the match officials seem to be incompetent, corrupt or both.

Bookmakers, sponsors, newspapers and tv companies have way too much influence.

Del Boy was clipped initially and, irrespective of what happened afterwards, it was a foul. Yes, he made the most of it but it was still a foul.

Exactly Tom.

That's Life, but for sure Liverpool are slowly, spawnilly, loosing the allure. I will never applaud them, damage done, etc.

Everton will rise again.

Tom (98),' Yes he made the most of it' or as some pundits say ‘ he was entitled to go down'. In both cases, yours and The pundits he cheated.

Before VAR, referees allowed this cheating and VAR are allowing the same cheating, so nothing has changed except the decision to allow this ‘ carry on' is being made in a studio instead of on the field. It really stinks, mind you morals have no meaning, these days, in plenty of places besides football.

Very good post that, Dave, especially because I've got to go to Goodison and watch Mr Irrespective, or should I say Mr Inconsistent ref the game today.

Tony (109), ‘ Very good post that, Dave', what the fuck are you after, your birthday's not until December.

Who's the ref, Tony?

I've read a few comments on TW along the lines of "England didn't show any bottle" at the rugby.

What a load of bollocks that statement is.

Atkinson without the TW hopefully, Darren.

You never learn, Dave, I had to get off out of yours yesterday, when I heard you say Liverpool will score, can't you learn to jinx them bastards instead of me!

Rugby; how many times... in various shaped ball codes... have a team 'had their final in the semi'?

England that.

Which Everton or Spurs for that matter, will turn up?

Which Manager, if any will soon be the possessor of a brand new P45? - none is my guess... more's the pity.

Tony (113), don't deny that but honestly don't remember saying that, good job you wasn't here when the second one went in and your boy, Sonny, went off off on one !! Saved me from doing the same.

Stop press !!
Shock, horror

Sandro Ramirez SCORES

Come on Stephen. Tell a story by all means but make it a BIT believable. 🤣🤣🤣

His first league goal since he left Màlaga, touching 2.5 years!!

Barry (119), that goal was described as a ‘sensational strike', I knew he had it in him, watch him go on a ‘ sensational goalscoring streak now'. We'll recall him in January and move right up the league.

It's good to see Mr Neil very much in the spotlight,his Preston lads are top of the most competitive league in the world,the rest of the weekend was another one to forget...and I don't do Rugby folks!.

Mathew (121) seen him getting interviewed, seems very lively and interesting, Stoke City got knocked back by Preston after asking permission to talk to him about taking over at Stoke. You never know he could be the next Blues boss, which you suggested a few weeks ago.