Holgate rescues a turgid Carabao Cup affair

By Michael Kenrick 29/10/2019 364comments  |  Jump to last
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Dominic Calvert-Lewin returns to the starting XI after his goalscoring exploits off the bench on Saturday

Everton struggled to break down Watford in a dreadful first half of this Carabao Cup game, but finally broke through thanks to Holgate, with Richarlison sealing it in the last minute.

Silva made five changes but still kept Sigurdsson on the bench with Schneiderlin not part of the squad.

Watford kicked off on a crisp clear night under the Goodison lights and Coleman won a corner inside the first minute. Digne crossed it in after taking it short and Gomes set up a weak and poorly directed header for Calvert-Lewin.

Everton failed to do much with a free-kick after Calvert-Lewin was hauled down. The move ended up with Watford attacking and winning a corner themselves but the ref blew up for a push on an Everton defender.

Moise Kean went on a great run down the right but could not get beyond his man and drove his shot into the Watford defender. Everton were then back defending, somewhat nervously. Everton tried the crossfield diagonal through Delph, spoilt by Richarlison wandering offside.

The pace of the game was moderate at best, with a lot of conservative passing and very little meaningful forward play, neither side really looking that impressive.

Richarlison made a brilliant run from deep in the Everton half, setting up Calvert-Lewin by playing the ball behind rather than in front of his Everton colleague... dreadful.

Watford responded by putting together a pretty threatening move and cross by Pereyra that was screwed wide. Mariappa went in strongly from behind on Iwobi, causing some anger, but no card from the ref.

The pace of the game, if possible, dropped even further, as both sides were effectively cancelling each other out, and a complete absence of any real cup-tie intensity, the play spoilt repeatedly by poor passing and a lack of drive or deire.

Holgate resorted to a long ball that Calvert-Lewin controlled well enough but simply did nothing useful with. Everton at least played a few passes in the Watford half before dropping back yet again, putting the lie to Silva's hollow promise that Everton would show the same desire as in the last two cup games.

Coleman had his pocket picked and it needed Mina to stop Chalobah, Everton continuing to look less than confident at the back and uninspiring going forward. Iwobi dug out a cross but Gomes in the Watford goal was more than equal to it.

Kean tried to dribble past three men and was stopped before he could shoot. Quina went down and was taken off, Everton playing on before Doucouré could get on, while Mina pulled up and started to hobble.

A low ball in was aimed for Calvert-Lewin but it was intercepted for a corner, Mina trying for it and then he finally went to ground and Michael Keane was readied to replace him.

Richarlison was nudged and collapsed in front of the Watford fans, denied any foul, much to the amusement of the 300 Watford fans who had made the effort to attend. Iwobi was quick onto a loose ball but could not curl it past Gomes.

Richarlison did a lot better to work his way past three Watford players but Iwobi lost the ball too easily and a very disappointing half finally came to an end. Poor fayre.

Moise Kean was hauled off at half-time, with Walcott on to presumably provide more end-product? Unlikely. It certainly had no effect on the pedestrian pace of proceedings from the restart. Iwobi tried to play in Walcott but Gomes was alert to the danger. At least it showed a little more of that missing 'desire'.

Doucoure had a good run down the middle but Watford, thankfully, were as ineffective as their illustrious hosts when it comes to threatening goal. At the other end, a ball swung in just bounced off Keane and out for a goal-kick.

Digne got the chance for a long throw that Gomes stepped out to grasp. Richarlison had a chance to cross but overhit it horribly. At the other end, a fantastic strike by Gray pulled a fantastic stop out of Pickford. The corner was defended well enough.

The tempo and atmosphere built up a little but Watford then broke and Pickford stopped them. Suddenly, it was end-to-end full of life. Walcott put in a low cross that deserved conversion but it didn't happen.

Prödl gave away a needless free-kick, pushing Digne over, who delivered a brilliant cross on the noggin of Keane with the goal at his mercy... and he heads it straight at Gomes. Dear god... More end-to-end stuff gave some hope that the intensity was increasing but Digne shot at goal instead of crossing and Gomes again gathered easily.

Much better penetration form Richarlison and a deep pullback saw Gomes's shot blocked behind Gomes by a defender and Watford galloped away. At the other end, the ball fell to Iwobi from Calvert-Lewin and a fantastic snapshot beat Gomes all hands down only to smack the top of the post!

The familiar face of Gerard Deulofeu came on in place of Pereyra. Gomes was fouled by Doucouré, who was carded. A set-piece chance for Digne, clipped off the top of the wall and the top of the crossbar! The corner was short, Walcott getting in a weak header. Richarlison tried to beat two men and failed, letting Watford advance and Gray handballed, halting the threat.

Everton were finally building much-need momentum but the ball seemingly would not go in... until it finally did! Mason Holgate heading in from point-blank range off a beautiful cross from Walcott. It had been coming...

Watford finally came out of their shell and looked to push the Blues back. Sensing more goals, Silva switched Calvert-Lewin for Tosun for the last 10 minutes. Walcott tried to skip through but was caught by Cathcart as Will Hughes went down after trying to foul Delph and needed treatment.

Everton finally took the free-kick, Digne going for the near post but not clever enough by far, his shot weak and off-target. It really became a question of game management as the minutes ticked by without too much of a threat from the Hornets.

But Everton of course put themselves under pressure in the final minutes, until Richarlison broke smartly and would not be denied a fine fish to seal the win in the last minute of added time.

Scorer: Holgate (73'), Richarlison (90+3')

Everton: Pickford, Coleman, Holgate, Mina (41' Keane), Digne, Gomes, Delph, Kean (46' Walcott), Iwobi, Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin (80' Tosun).
Subs: Lössl, Sigurdsson, Sidibe, Davies.

Watford: Gomes, Foulquier, Mariappa [Y:90'], Prödl (65' Kabasele), Cathcart, Femenía, Hughes, Chalobah, Quina (39' Doucouré [Y:68']), Gray, Pereyra (67' Deulofeu).
Subs not Used: Janmaat, Masina, Bachmann, Dalby.

Refereee: Simon Hooper


Reader Comments (364)

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Mark Frere
1 Posted 29/10/2019 at 18:22:04
Is there a stream or channel for this game?
Mark Guglielmo
2 Posted 29/10/2019 at 18:44:28
Mark, another forum posted these (I have no idea what any of them mean):

Arena Sport 4
beIN Sport 1
Eleven Sport 5
TV3 Sport
ViaSport 2
Sport TV5

If you're in the USA, it's live on ESPN+ subscription service.

Steve Ferns
3 Posted 29/10/2019 at 18:50:27
Great team selection. Only Sidibe missing from my preferred XI:

Pickford
Coleman Holgate Mina Digné
Gomes Iwobi Delph
Kean Calvert-Lewin Richarlison

Just have to perform now. COYB

David Pearl
4 Posted 29/10/2019 at 18:50:41
Mark, thanks for that. It should be on somewhere then if it’s on ESPN.

Amazing how the Premier League has destroyed VAR. I mean it seems to work fine in MLS so why didn’t they use that model and let the game referee have the final say?

I’m all for VAR if done correctly. Remember the Sterling cross that was over the line?

Mark Frere
5 Posted 29/10/2019 at 18:51:35
Thanks very much, Mark, those channels make perfect sense to me.
Mark Guglielmo
7 Posted 29/10/2019 at 18:58:09
You're welcome fellas.

Steve, I almost had the line-up, but I definitely would have kept Sidibe over Coleman, and I would not be risking further injury to Mina, as much as I don't rate Keane.

Also praying that Kean playing wide right is actually Kean playing inside striker, because dribbling isn't what he should be doing.

Steve Ferns
8 Posted 29/10/2019 at 18:59:30
Mark, they aren’t meant to stay wide. I don’t mind if Coleman is just in for the cup and Sidibe plays against spurs. With rose missing he could have a big role down that Spurs left.
Conor McCourt
9 Posted 29/10/2019 at 18:59:43
Steve, I totally agree though I feel with that line-p he may go 4-4-2 with Iwobi and Richarlison wide, though the 4-3-3 you suggest is probably more likely to get the best out of Iwobi.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

10 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:00:44
Not surprised by the forward line, given Bernard's injury.

Calvert-Lewin with 5 goals in his last 7 games (360 minutes – he has started or finished every game) was a shoo-in at centre-forward.

I'm disappointed Davies has quickly been cut from the team again for the returning Delph.

A win, nothing less, is acceptable. For all of us: the team, the manager and not least the fans.

Mark Guglielmo
11 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:01:06
I hope you're right, Steve. It just seems to me that Silva doesn't use his wings that way. Oh, and I would have played Davies over Gomes. He had a much better game on Saturday.

But I'll take it, a pretty solid XI.

Steve Ferns
12 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:02:02
Conor,

Iwobi can't play deep. He's not got the game for it. He's an offensive player only. He might get a foot in but he can't play box to box, like you need in a 4-4-2, even from a wide midfield position.

Watford are struggling and, if we come out flying, we could win it in the first 30 minutes.

Kieran Kinsella
13 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:02:16
I am hoping tonight is the night Kean comes of age as a Blue.
Steve Ferns
14 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:03:49
Watford have gone 3-5-2. Deulofeu and Doucoure are on the bench.
Steve Ferns
15 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:04:44
I’ll drink to that, Kieran.
Brian Hennessy
16 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:05:06
I've given Silva plenty stick for his team selections but can't complain with what he has gone with tonight.

Holgate deserves another game in place of Keane. Best of all, it looks like he has given Iwobi another chance in the middle, to prove he can perform like he did against West Ham. Looking forward to seeing Kean again and Calvert-Lewin deserves to start with his recent run of goals.

Mark Guglielmo
17 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:06:45
Kieran, you & me both, mate. It'll give him the boost of confidence he really needs IMO.

Good news is that Watford seems to not care because that's not a great lineup they're starting out with.

Mark Burton
18 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:07:36
No Schniederlin, well at least Silva must be reading TW and taking the advice of people that seem to know more than him.
Steve Ferns
19 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:09:28
Mark: Or maybe Schneiderlin is not in Silva’s preferred XI and only gets a game when two or more are injured (there’s still one injured and he’s still not in the side).
Brian Hennessy
20 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:09:53
I'm hoping our shape is a 4-2-3-1 like this:

Pickford
Coleman Holgate Mina Digné
Gomes Delph
Kean Iwobi Richarlison
Calvert-Lewin

Brian Hennessy
21 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:13:49
Or maybe he is saving Schneiderlin for the Spurs game Steve. only kidding
Steve Ferns
22 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:14:19
In the programme, Silva says: “we should have managed the (Brighton) game with more maturity and never conceded a goal from a counter attack in stoppage time”.

He says Everton will be “assertive and purposeful” tonight and play with “the speed we showed against West Ham”.

He says a lot of nice things about the fans and the way we’ve supported the team this season and that Everton will do “all we can on the pitch to win and send you home tonight proud of Everton”.

Steve Ferns
23 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:14:53
Brian, that’s how they have it on Twitter.
Neil Lawson
24 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:15:07
We are pleased because he hasn't reverted to type. We will all be desperate that this team does well and that it may signal a sea change in future selections and formation and tactics. However, most of us are pessimists and doubt this will happen.

If all goes badly tonight then that is further evidence of Silva's inability to coach and to motivate. Let's all cross our fingers and try and be positive.

Duncan McDine
25 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:25:24
Steve Ferns, I nearly spat my drink all over the place when I read your comment about winning it in the first 30 mins... brilliant humour!!!
Bill Gienapp
26 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:30:35
Will be very interested to see how this lineup fares - particularly Kean. Gomes and Delph were actually quite excellent together against Wolves, but haven't started together since because of injury.
Steve Ferns
27 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:31:35
Glad it made you smile but I reckon we’ll be two up at half time.
Conor McCourt
28 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:31:43
Steve and Brian I would prefer that system also. Steve you don't like Iwobi wide in a midfield four, I just don't like him wide at all. His assets are his movement, his knitting of the play and his killer pass, all of his are suited to that number 10 role.

The difference in his performance prior to Bernard's injury and after was night and day.

The only worry for me is I would like to see Kean and DCL in a partnership so if he goes with the predicted shape I'm not sure it will suit Kean who is still trying to find his feet hope I'm wrong though.

Duncan McDine
29 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:33:18
Joking aside, I actually agree SF. I think we’ll put on a good show tonight. 3-0
Stan Schofield
30 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:33:52
Duncan@25: With that line-up I think Steve is right. Watford should be taken apart and the game killed early. But this is Everton
Jay Harris
31 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:33:52
Steve
Watford aren’t struggling as much as we think.
They are unbeaten in their last 3 games which is more than you can say for us.

I think they will park the bus and look for breakaways using Delofeus speed against a very sluggish Seamus and Michael Keane.

I don’t believe Silva has given this a seconds thought and hope that with Richy Kean and DCL we will have enough firepower to put them down.

Very disappointed Tom Davies didn’t continue as he was much better than Gomes last game.

Robin Cannon
32 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:34:14
I hope the shape posted, with Kean shoved out on the right, isn't the case. Playing a striker out of position to shoehorn him into the squad doesn't seem productive for us, or for him.

Other than that, reasonable selection.

Steve Ferns
33 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:34:30
Conor, kean always seemed to be in the channel and cutting inside when I saw him for juve. I think he’s better, at this age at least, wide in a narrow three. If it’s a 4231 and he has to track right back, then I’m not so sure. But in a 433 as a wide forward cutting inside, with more space to run into, I see goals.
Steve Ferns
34 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:36:31
Yeah Jay, they are a decent side, but look at their side. They have one eye on the league as they need to win on Saturday more than tonight. Their bench has more of their better players than their XI.

Anyway. Time to brace the cold and take my seat. Enjoy the game lads.

Ciarán McGlone
35 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:37:14
Please tell me this clown isn't intending on using Kean in a wide role..

Issy Flack
36 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:40:38
Any links?
Michael Kenrick
37 Posted 29/10/2019 at 19:43:06
Good crowd... almost hard to believe in the circumstances!
Chris Hockenhull
38 Posted 29/10/2019 at 20:24:39
If it’s not poor in the flesh there . dear god the endless drone of “Everton Legend Ronnie Goodlass” (check out his illustrious record) on Radio Meseyshite is like having a grade A moaner behind you all season once you bought that ticket Expert analysis... my arse. Now tunes to Goodlass Free Zone of Radio 4. This site will keep me posted
Ciarán McGlone
40 Posted 29/10/2019 at 20:29:25
It just so bloody dull.
Steve Ferns
41 Posted 29/10/2019 at 20:35:32
Very poor first half. Played with none of the speed or Intensity Marco silva promised. Need to improve all over the pitch. Especially Gomes in the middle and kean on the left.
Lennart Hylen
42 Posted 29/10/2019 at 20:37:17
This is relegation football by two teams that will go down if nothing is changed. It is dreadful. No compusure no nothing.
Laurie Hartley
43 Posted 29/10/2019 at 20:41:28
Has Mina gone off injured?
Steve Ferns
44 Posted 29/10/2019 at 20:42:45
Definitely need a half time sub Lennart. Need more energy in the side. Davies on for Gomes for me. I love André but he’s stinking the midfield out today.
Kieran Kinsella
46 Posted 29/10/2019 at 20:45:21
We seem to play exactly like Stoke did under Hughes when all they did was hit long diagonal balls from LB towards the D. They had Jon Walters up top who would fairly often win those balls. We don't have him. This seems to be our sole tactic. Where is the passing and incisiveness?
Derek Powell
47 Posted 29/10/2019 at 20:49:16
https://www.vipleague.bz/everton-vs-watford-streaming-link-1
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

48 Posted 29/10/2019 at 20:54:54
Pretty much like the majority of our season to date.

Extremely poor fare.

Was it really necessary to play Mina tonight? Let's hope the substitution is a precautionary one, rather than seeing him out for an even longer stretch. He has been our best defender tonight.

Digne doing okay. Seamus slack. Delph just a water carrier. Gomes... once again, just not living up to the hype some give him on here. That was a really nasty foul on Quina, definitely leaving his boot high and catching him on the knee. Gomes is a really nasty sly bugger at times. He is not clever at committing a 'disguised' foul when a player goes past him.

Iwobi and Kean the bright spots. Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin largely anonymous.

It looks a surprisingly large crowd for a Tuesday night game in the League Cup. You can hear that the crowd wanted to get behind the team at the start, but the team has not given them anything to lift them.

You can't fool a Goodison crowd, as shown by the half-time boos.

Ciarán McGlone
49 Posted 29/10/2019 at 20:57:00
Well, a masterclass in confidence building from Silva there..

Play a young striker out of position and then make him the fall guy at half time.

Win, lose or draw, this snake oil salesman needs to go.

Kieran Kinsella
50 Posted 29/10/2019 at 20:59:37
Silva can't coach defending corners, can't motivate, can't get a team to play nicely, his tactics are long ball. He is a total joker.
Andy Crooks
51 Posted 29/10/2019 at 21:39:12
I never post on the live forum and this is the second time in twenty years I have ever looked at it. I did so because it is more up to date. What a fucking eye-opener. Evertonians who want our club to lose. What sad bitter specimens.

Tony Marsh, lets bring back your beloved "fireman Sam". By fuck, you championed him or do you think no one saw your posts. My God that live forum is vile.

Gerry Ring
52 Posted 29/10/2019 at 21:45:51
A win is a win! Thanks to Derek 47 for the link which worked. My brother Christy Ring is at the game so if you see a guy wearing number 11 shirt with the name Ring on it, buy him a pint!!!!!
Tony Dunn
53 Posted 29/10/2019 at 21:48:23
Andy crooks, totally agre some terrible posts wanting us to lose, how f Cin sad, support the team or don't bother,
Steve Ferns
54 Posted 29/10/2019 at 21:49:01
Zonal marking was gone at set pieces today. Line of three and then man for man.

Shite game. We looked poor and there was few positives but into the last eight and that’s all that matters.

Crowd was very tetchy. It would have gone off if they scored. Davies needs to come in on Sunday.

Moise Kean’s family has the VIP box today. He must have been gutted. Silva will need to get his head up fast. This is a nightmare move for the highly touted striker who is really struggling and his position was all too deep and he didn’t look like he knew what he was doing. Should have been a 433.

Dermot Byrne
55 Posted 29/10/2019 at 21:49:04
Andy...they are the self-annointed real fans.

Fucking disgrace. Fans from our history must be turning in their graves

Dan Parker
56 Posted 29/10/2019 at 21:53:31
Doesn’t matter how you win in the cup, we’re through. Job done.
Tom Dodds
57 Posted 29/10/2019 at 21:53:58
Ciaran@49
Exactly what I thought re Moise Keane.


As for Mina reminds me sooo mutch of Martinez at that derby where suddenly all the good injured players came on and we got slaughtered.

This fucker is Martinez MK2..hasnt anyone got it yet ??

Brian Hennessy
58 Posted 29/10/2019 at 21:55:27
Very poor in the first half but we did improve after the break.

Credit to Silva for the change he made at halftime. It just wasn't working with Kean on the right and Walcott made a difference.

We will need a bit of luck in the draw as we are obviously still a long way off being good enough to beat the top teams. Oxford or Colchester would be great but I think we all know that wont happen

Phil Sammon
59 Posted 29/10/2019 at 21:56:34
Andy 51

You are quite right Andy. Wanting your own team to lose is not a good thing. It wouldn’t happen if we had higher standards though. The board should be looking at that game and telling Silva it still isn’t good enough. We’ve had a few really shitty wins this year that really shouldn’t be banked as credits for Silva.

Danny Baily
60 Posted 29/10/2019 at 21:56:57
Save Colchester for the semi final!
Brian Hennessy
61 Posted 29/10/2019 at 21:59:35
Have to say it was great to watch a match with no VAR for a change
Jason Wilkinson
62 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:00:43
Watford despatched. Spurs next. At least we are scoring goals now 2 in each of our last 3 games. I would be delighted with a clean sheet against Spurs but unless Kane, Son and Dele are mysteriously struck down by a virus I can't see it happening.
Good teams are good because they don't concede and when they do they believe it to be a blip. Bad teams are fearful and concede because they don't expect anything else.
We need two or three clean sheets and the confidence we saw towards the end of last season will return. The only problem there is that we don't have Gana and Zouma stopping the opposition.
Who's to blame? Silva, Brands or Moshiri?
Anyone says Bill go and have a nap.
Michael Barrett
63 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:09:18
Anyone no what the gate was?
Raymond Fox
64 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:10:09
Theres some right chearful Charlies on here, effing moan when we lose, moan when we win.
Talk about spead a little happiness!
Fran Mitchell
65 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:11:11
Woeful game. Looked like a game between 16th and 20th of the Premier League all right.

Glad we won but jeez, we are way off form.

Jay Harris
66 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:13:57
Its all Bill's fault.

Im off for a nap.

Darren Hind
67 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:15:36
Spurs will be a different game. They will not sit with nine behind the ball, so we will have chances, but they will threaten our defence

Keep a clean sheet on Sunday and we are in business

Bill Gienapp
68 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:15:57
Jay (66) - What did I do??
Steve Ferns
69 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:16:44
Half time boos? There was none.
Keith Gleave
70 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:17:02
First half really poor but played better in second half. Even though we did apply pressure and created a number of scoring opportunities in the second half, it still was not a good performance.
There was no service to the front three at all and so they fed of scraps. Walcott coming on for Kean I found strange but it did speed things up, I just don’t know what Kean has to do, particularly with no service.
The ball is still being played side to side, at no pace, so not beating anybody. Finally it makes its way back to Pickford for the boot up field.
Coleman’s attacking game appears non existent and so not helping on that side, he did make one or two good tackles near the end but I think his time is up. Holgate did really well taking the goal and his play was generally decent.
I do worry though at Silva playing an unfit Mina as there is a good chance he will miss the Spurs game now. That is poor management.
Kieran Kinsella
71 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:18:07
Andy 51

You picked a bad day for it. Sometimes the forum is alright, quite funny actually and insightful. Today though Stewart especially was on this "I want us to lose kick" and some others sympathized. Totally blew my mind. But there are some (usually more so than today) more reasonable folks that frequent the ToffeeWeb version of the local.

Jay Harris
72 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:22:51
Bill, LOL.

Can anyone explain what the tactics were in this game particularly first half.

It just seems to me that 11 total strangers meet up and go out to play a game.

It was more like musical chairs or pass the parcel than footy.

Charles McCann
73 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:23:19
Really strong second half with great commitment to the cause by all. Iwobi in particular was a real handful.

I've been a big critic of Walcott but tonight he was lively and a big improvement on Kean. Kean is still young and finding his feet, we need to be patient with him and hopefully he'll come good. Definitely think he'd be better played up top than on the wing.

Mina was showing all his quality in the first half...such a shame he got injured. The defending across the full back line throughout was really solid with Keane slotting in seamlessly.

Although Gomes and Delph did fairly well in the middle of the park I thought we missed Davies. DCL up top did okay at times but maybe needed to get more involved. And at the other end Pickford did well with the very few shots he had to deal with.

All in all a fairly sound and positive performance. Very important to keep the attitude right for Sunday against a spurs team that are there for the taking.

Bill Griffiths
74 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:23:22
Steve (#41/#44). I agree with your comments r Harding Gomez's first half performance but thought he did quite well the second half.
I agree with you in that Tom should come back in on Sunday.
I was made up for Mason with his first goal for the club.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

75 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:24:57
OK. The second half not as forlorn as the first. At least we actually got into their penalty and got some shots off. Two nice goals as well.

Delighted for both our goalscorers. In particular we need Richarlison scoring again.

But you can't gild a pig. The football wasn't great. And that was against the team winless, at the bottom of the league, with 8 changes and most of their better players not appearing.

Keane did well when he came on. Gomes improved, but then again, he had set an extremely low bar with his performance in the first half.

Theo was OK too, but you have to feel for Kean, with how he is being handled and the state of the team he has joined. He must be wondering what the hell he has got himself into.

The pick of our lot today was Iwobi, the one consistent creative spark across the 90 minutes. His retention of the ball on the right and the way he created space to get a cross in which was cleared for Walcott to pick up and return it for Holgate's opener, was excellent by Iwobi.

The team's confidence still looks very fragile, but be it on the road or at home, they cannot say the crowd is not with them.

Booed off at half-time, still not playing well, there was plenty of racous support from the terraces and an eruption of joy at the two goals.

Silva and the team now has a tiny foothold on which to build.

Instead of looking at it as 5 defeats in 6 before today, look at it as 2 wins in 3.

Still a lot, LOT better required from all.

But the last 8 in one of the two cup competitions is at least something to buoy some, if not all.

PS to Andy @ 51. I never ever go near the live forum during the match. I might scan it quickly before KO, searching for http to find any good links to watch the match. But to read and write and post whilst the game is on? Especially with the knee-jerk vitriol that spews forth?

Nah! Not for me. It is not credible to me, unless posters have chameleon-like swivelling eyeballs, that anyone - anyone at all - can genuinely be fully attentive to the live action unfolding in the game whilst reading, writing and posting simultaneously.

Steve Ferns
76 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:26:00
Not sure of the gate but the home sections were sold out. Watford brought about 750. It was a third full in the lower bullens and we had the upper bullens above it. I’d guess 35,000 to 37,000.
John Boon
77 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:26:25
One of the very few games I was unable to watch. From all accounts it was still not a satisfying display other than the result. When a game is described as "turgid" it aptly describes just how we have been playing this season.

Sometimes it must be depressing having to write about such a game. I live in hope that in the not too distant future an Everton display will be described as, "stupendous, amazing or outstanding". Even better "table topping". We have waited thirty years for that.

However no matter how bad things get I would never want us to lose just to see the manager fired. When wins are as infrequent as they are this season I can only feel relieved when we actually win. Then I can relax for a few days much to the delight of my long suffering wife who has accurately described my illness as "Evertonitis".

The symptoms are flushing of the face, shortness of breath, accute anxiety and an inability to talk to other humans about anything else other than Everton The only known cure is a win and even that only lasts for a few days.It is a seasonal disease but it can be contagious and spread to offspring. They are NEVER grateful for passing down such a malady.

So today is great because we defeated the mighty Watford even though the game was turgid.

Chris Hockenhull
78 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:26:45
Absolute disgrace to read those who wanted an Everton side to lose. Totally zero tolerance to that attitude no matter what “reason” put forward. Hang heads in shame... and then totally f**k off forever. Period
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

79 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:28:17
Half time boos came over loud and clear in my match commentary.
Kieran Kinsella
80 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:29:47
Steve 54

Regarding Kean, when I saw him for Juve, his goals either seemed to come from him having an extended run e.g. counter attack or cleaning up lose balls in the box. The way we play, slowly from the back, he doesn't have that kind of space to run into. I remember in Koeman's first year, Pickford would sometimes launch these quick counters with a throw or kick down down the wing to Lukaku who scored some similar goals. I don't know why that has disappeared from our Arsenal. The second type of goals e.g. mopping up, I think are lacking because all too often we lose the first ball from poor corners. If we had better delivery into the box, got the header back across goal or chested it down, I think Kean would find some joy. I think the way we are playing is not helping him any and as time goes on obviously that affects his confidence.

Mark Guglielmo
81 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:31:18
Brian H @58, can't imagine why it wasn't working playing a 19-year-old striker as a right wing considering he & Coleman have probably never spoken to one another. And then it working with Walcott who's been playing right wing for 10 years. Crazy!

Let's face it, if you're under 21 years old, Everton is not where you want to be, and Silva is not who you want to play for.

Or what Kieran @80 wrote. Well said, mate. I watched all his Juve games too at the end of last year.

Mike Corcoran
82 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:38:02
Keans problem is we haven’t got the form required to chance him up top yet. He had a good go out right but we needed Walcott to support Coleman defensively as he was getting murdered 1st half. Delph slows the pace right down, he’s used to having at least a couple of world class players getting themselves in space for him to pass to and he hasn’t worked out how to move forward with the players in front him. Davies in that position, whilst still liable to a ricket, injects forward pace into the game at a risk which I think is worth allowing him time to grow into the role. Mina was doing fine until the usual twinge, high maintenance lad that he is. Holgate thankfully looking good, pace and skill with a hint of hard nark. Richarlison needed that goal as he is looking very ordinary of late, nice usable through ball from Tosun. Overall marginally better than the seasons average shit performance but ffs sake some decent coaching on forward play would not go amiss. Big improvement needed for Sunday now
Jason Wilkinson
83 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:38:58
Haha Bill. Unless you were chucking your savings at the now defunct Bury FC it was not you I was reffering to pal.
I remember '81-'83 under Howard and Colin. The football was terrible, no confidence and we had a youngster called Ratcliffe getting dogs abuse playing at left back. The future looked bleak. How were we ever going to get back to the heady heights of Gordon Lee's teams. Howard stuck by his plan, kept tinkering up front and brought a couple more uninspiring characters into the fold. A certain Andy Gray arrived along with Derek Mountfield and Paul Bracewell. I don't quite recall who came first but all three contributed massively.
We are in a totally different era I know but it only takes one or two to transform the rest of the squad from deadbeats to superstars.
Howard was no Pep or Klopp. He spoke well but didn't give the impression that we were going to see the greatest period of success in our history.
Silva might not be the answer but there is a transfer window soon.
A cheap one, a seasoned one (to play up front) (Get Vardy) and a cultured one (for midfield) please Santa.
Steve Ferns
84 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:41:49
Yeah Kieran, he likes to attack space. So it makes sense that he goes wide, because he will never get the ball over the top into space playing centrally for Everton. The best he could hope for was the chance Richarlison put away. This obviously comes late in games, and so I think he is still best as an impact sub. I hoped he and Calvert-Lewin would play a 60/30 ratio most games and both run at full speed for the combined 90.

Kean keeps doing this annoying trick whereby he tries to roll the defender and race onto the ball which he sends 15 yards ahead. But every single time it's easily collected by another defender. Maybe it was because Watford set up with 8 men behind the ball. They kept their shape well and looked better drilled and more solid than last time I watched them. Clearly the new old manager is starting to make an impact.

When he took the handbrake off at the end and there was a grandstand finish, they looked quite dangerous through Deulofeu. I thought we did defend well, with Gomes and Delph helping the full backs and we got numbers back and got forward quickly. We have a real issue against teams who deny us space and block the passing lanes. Especially when we just move the ball so slowly. Walcott came on and started providing an outlet and some pace and getting at the full back and that made a difference.

Delph and Gomes are too similar. Both want to sit deep and spray the ball. Neither are quick. I think Davies should play. I like Gomes so I'd drop Delph. But only if Gomes plays like he did against West Ham, when we were close to being stupendous John Boon!

I thought the new system at corners looked sound. Richarlison was good defensively and headed everything away on the right of that zonal 3. Mina looked to have a nasty knock as he was straight off. I hope he wasn't risked but it looked like he jarred his right knee. I'm not sure which one was injured but I think it was his right leg he was holding last time too.

As for the crowd being good. Most of us have already paid for our tickets, so it's not as if the crowd dips much with the cup matches. Loads simply give the tickets to friends or family if they cannot be arsed. But also don't forget, there's maybe 10 or 15 more games of Goodison under the lights on a week night, unless we get Euro football back soon.

Steve Ferns
85 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:48:32
Jason, I think whilst Mason Holgate showed he is our second best central defender, we certainly need another. He also showed that whilst he is quick, he's not quick enough as Gray was able to beat him for pace a couple of times. I don't fancy Keane at the moment and would like a Zouma type centre back in January above everything.

If the cash isn't there, I'd flog Pickford, sign someone like Butland and use the rest of the cash to sign the centre-back. No idea how Butland is doing last 18 months, which is why I said someone like him, as he was decent, is in the second flight, and is surely available for a decent fee.

Tony Hill
86 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:49:55
Iwobi tried hard and was our best player. Our play is woefully predictable and plodding at the moment, fortunately Watford were even worse though in fairness to us their defence has been strong since Flores came back.

I agree with those lamenting the peculiar deployment and withdrawal of Kean and I also share the concern that Mina may have been played when unfit.

If we play like that on Sunday we will lose quite heavily.

Mark Guglielmo
87 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:50:52
Steve @84, the thing is, nothing you described is Kean's forte. He wasn't asked to do it for Juve, and he wasn't asked to do it Italy. He's better at making runs, getting a good pass, and shooting. That will never happen under Marco, and depending on the next guy, perhaps never happen while he's at Everton.

Did you know his 6 goals for Juve last year came from only 10 shots on target? He's a quintessential striker (except he's not really a header guy), and thus is of no use in Silva's system.

Andy Crooks
88 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:51:02
Mark, yes. What in God's name is that about? Kean was absolutley hung out to dry by a coach whose time is up. I never, ever want us to lose and have no time for those who do. But, this is death by a thousand cuts. Gradual, one step forward one and one tenth back. Slow, gradual relegation.
The good teams,sorry, the teams with good players, that are relegated,never look like they are doomed. But it sneaks up. Silva can and will do it. He is uninspired and gormless.
Kieran Kinsella
89 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:51:34
Hope we get Oxford and Kevin Brock plays
Laurie Hartley
90 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:53:35
Well done Mason Holgate - one assist and one goal in the last two games.

So pleased to get a win regardless of how we played - helped my mood tremendously.

Mark Guglielmo
91 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:55:36
I don't know Andy @88, I really don't. Funny that it's taken his misuse/treatment of Kean to push me to the Silva out side lol.

He played out wide ONCE for Juve, and it was to the left. One game at 2nd striker, and 11 at striker. He has great passing abilities (in case no one caught that brilliant touch thread to Coleman racing down the side early in the first half), and equally poor dribbling abilities. What's being asked of him is just utterly inane.

Jay Harris
92 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:59:02
Steve,
I agree with you about Tom Davies and feel we should have played him tonight alongside his buddies Holgate and DCL. I think he also gets on well with Iwobi.

Its a toss up between Delph and Gomes as Gomes gets caught on the ball too often and doesnt have the pace to get back or gives silly fouls away.

I knew Watford woud park the bus and its an Achilles heel of ours that we don't seem to know how to deal with it.

We looked like lost souls in the first half and I could work out what our tactics were supposed to be.

I know you rate him but I feel we should be doing a lot better than Silva.

Kieran Kinsella
93 Posted 29/10/2019 at 22:59:36
Laurie

I’ve always been a fan of Holgate. Not the finished article but a good player. Hope he continues in this vein

Steve Ferns
94 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:02:36
Tony, let's not forget that a lot of how we played was down to how they played. They lined up in a 352. The wingbacks were pegged right back into a 532 to deal with Kean and Richarlison. The midfield three sat really deep and pressed us hard blocking off the passing lanes and causing us to get frustrated.

Kean and Richarlison did not help matters as they had no real movement, and we seemed to stand still. One of my pet peeves is seeing the football come to a stop when we are in attack (main culprit our woefully inadequate captain), so the opposition can just recover perfect shape. We then see those who did make runs, turn and stop and get back on side and stand still. And with no movement the ball can only go sideways.

Walcott came on and made a difference as he was getting about and making more incisive runs. I got back in my seat for the second half, much earlier than normal. I saw Walcott finish what looked like an intensive warmup and then he stood for a good 2 minutes looking at a tablet (iPad) and discussing matters with Boa Morte. Having seen Kean's brother, I hoped it was not him being hooked, but if your job is on the line, then you have no room for sentiment.

Watford's game plan was obvious. Get 8 men behind the ball and keep a clean sheet. Wait for the crowd to become frustrated and then try to win it late on. The longer the game went on the more frustrated the crowd got. Moans and groans. No boos, despite what someone said above. Especially at half time. Not in the Park End anyway. The only boos was booze, as a few of the main hecklers in the Park End seemed to have been on the lash all day long and they were getting a bit of stick.

So on to Spurs. A different proposition. A team we can sit back and defend against and try to hit on the break, using our pace against them. No Rose as he is suspended. Spurs are not much better than us right now and clearly have their own issues. I'd play Walcott for sure. Davies' energy in the middle is a must. I'd hope Silva can pick Kean up and guarantee him some minutes as an impact sub, if Spurs are chasing the game, he will find lots of space to attack and if Gomes can wake up and play like he did against West Ham, then Kean could have his goal to get him up and running, as that Spurs defence will not like his pace and power.

Sam Hoare
95 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:03:00
Central midfield. I really think that’s where a lot of the issues lie.

I was one of the few who was not keen on signing Gomes. He’s not a bad player but given how many pedestrian players we already have we really needed a box to box player with some more pace and dynamism. Someone like Doucore (not that he’s been good this season).

Iwobi helps. As does Davies to a degree but any two from Gomes, Schneiderlin and Delph just lack the mobility and zip to cover and press quick enough to implement Silva’s plan. You can get away with one slow coach but not two (or three when Siggy plays at 10!).

Steve Ferns
96 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:05:19
Jay, he raced on the pitch at the end. I thought it was a fan as he had his hoodie up under his big coat, and what looked like grey trackie pants. He jumped on Holgate's back and was messing around with him and then walked off the pitch with Iwobi's arm around him. So yeah, they look close!
Mark Guglielmo
97 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:05:22
Sam @95, I tend to agree with you. Iwobi's pace, willingness to play defense, and ability to move into the offense when needed mean he could move out to the 8, so bringing on a true 10 CM is something we could really use.
Steve Ferns
98 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:09:29
Iwobi cannot play as a number 8, he cannot tackle. He switches off. He lacks discipline. He is best as an attacking player across that line of 3 or wide up top in a 433. Let's not make him a round peg in a square hole.
Tony Hill
99 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:09:35
Yes, Steve and Sam @94 and @ 95, the lack of movement is alarming and has been a problem for a long time and under different managers. It’s baffling.

Hope you’re right about Tottenham, Steve, but I confess I’m worried.

Brian Williams
100 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:10:16
Steve Ferns. There were plenty of boos at halftime mate, dunno how you didn't here them.
It was a strange game which, had Everton read the script, could have been done and dusted by halftime. The script being that Watford had no desire to win that game and looked as though they'd gladly settle for a low scoring defeat. We were too stupid to realise that and for some reason didn't want to play how we'd played in our last home game but rather opted for listless, slow, drab football.

Few plus points but one was Holgate who looks like he's learned a lot and toughened up after his spell in the Championship. Lad deserved a goal after a good performance. Mina was playing really well too until he had to go off.

Through to the quartes though and who knows what'll happen.

Drew O'Neall
101 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:12:01
I don’t understand why, when teams are likely to park the bus, we don’t deploy long shooter; Sigurdson, in a deep role alongside Gomes (or other) where he can receive plenty of ball on the edge of the area to pass or shoot.

He could perform the role at least as well as Schneiderlin who has been given infinite opportunities.

Most people agree we don’t need two deep midfielders anyway so why not get another goal threat on the pitch in an area which will mitigate the low block??

Steve Ferns
102 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:12:17
Tony, the lack of movement is evident watching Spurs and Man Utd right now too. It is a symptom of out of form footballers and footballers lacking confidence. It's up there with kicking the ball slowly so it doesn't go out of play, but meaning the recipient has to wait for it and is closed down. It's scared football. The only way to get rid of it is to win games and get the confidence back.
Jason Wilkinson
103 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:12:31
Steve Ferns,
As I posted earlier. We had a young goalie back in the early 80's (Neville) a lad from Barrow and young Rats.
Three of our greatest players as it turned out.
Too many on here would see Pickford on his way. I see a young man who will become a fantastic servant to the club. He needs time, coaching and a solid back four to do it.
How many shots do Allisson or Ederson face? Pickford deals with more shots in a match than they do combined in a month.
What we lack right now is a method, a style, a way of getting the job done no matter who we play. We have immensely talented players who will only shine when as a team/squad we find that way.
It is Marco Silva's and Marcel Brand's responsibility to find it.
I do not as many on here do think sacking the manager (again) is the answer. Koeman needed to go. Martinez needed to go.
Moyes is the past. Mourinho would be trouble and the waiter (fat spanish) will not come.
We are in a better place (squad) than we were under Martinez or Koeman.
We will not go down. We will probably not win or come close to winning a trophy this season. What we will do is get stronger and wiser as a group as the season progresses. We still need more to come in and more to go.
Peter Mills
104 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:13:48
Once again it was a real struggle to beat a team who were simply organised and sat back. We are desperately lacking guile and confidence.

However, the aim of the evening was achieved, a place in the quarter finals.

We will need to improve dramatically at the weekend, Spurs were very dangerous on the break against the rs.

Tony Abrahams
105 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:14:45
Sometimes it was like watching the rugby union, with Everton passing it out wide with no real pace in their play, and Watford, just lining up their own little defensive quartets, just waiting for Everton, to keep playing it where they wanted them to play it.

Like watching paint dry at times but two goals, two shots off the woodwork, a shot off the line and Keane’s poor header from five yards out, all in the space of 45 minutes, must surely contradict my thoughts?

I’m also bemused that scoring goals doesn’t galvanise us, because I couldn’t believe how flat we went once we’d scored, when surely it should be the opposite what happens?

Moaning bastards some of us, but listening to some of the crowd talking, if your not moaning, then you must at least be pessimistic, in a game we’re confidence is key!

Ciarán McGlone
106 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:17:50
A mere fig leaf to cover the truly inadequate management of these players.

We get 15 minutes of decent football every two games. Its atrocious.

Get rid of this clown before he does some real damage and don't let Moshiri appoint anyone else.

Mark Guglielmo
107 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:20:10
Drew @101, we did exactly that. Gylfi started against multiple bunkered teams and scored 0 goals. Last thing you need to do against 7-8 deep is put another tortoise on the field. And if you're not going to put men in the area, what use is there in trying to go through the middle or thread thru balls? It becomes a cross and pray again, and we don't have a Lewandowski to score 15 headers a year.
Jerome Shields
108 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:20:54
For attitude, willingness to try and good distribution, Holgate should be a first team regular. Davies should have been played at some stage , he combines well with Holgate. Gomes is good when he is not harried. Just doesn't like it and seems to panic.
Mark Guglielmo
109 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:22:27
Steve @98, that's fair re: Iwobi. Of course by the same token you would agree then that playing Kean wide right (or left) is foolish because that doesn't play to his strengths and in fact exposes his weaknesses. But you know, Silva and all.

I hope we loan him out in January to a contending team on the continent where he'll be used properly. Maybe he can come back when we have a manager with a clue, but it's clear right now he's being wasted. And worse, having his confidence crushed along the way.

Eddie Dunn
110 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:28:24
Steve, Iwobi (starved of service) today went to the back to pick the ball up. He really did do a bit of box-to-box. In fairness the lad made a few errors but was one of our main outlets and was unlucky to hit the bar.
What a contrast from the awful first half.
Incidentally, I was watching a far Eastern feed on hesgoal but of very good quality and the effects mikes definately picked-up a bit of booing at halftime. The Talkshite reporter also confirmed this.
The second half was much better and we deserved the win. Mason Holgate was the best player on the park(imo).
I popped onto the live forum and was disgusted at Stuart Lowe's hopes for a defeat. Tony Marsh was towing a similar line but the comments were almost Kopite in their crassness.
I'm not a Silva fan but if he can get some results and avoid a crisis then good luck to him. I would never want us to lose.
Steve Ferns
111 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:31:27
Mark, Kean in the line of attack, wide in a 433 is fine. It's where he will find the space he needs. Kean in a midfield 3 in a 4231 is clearly wrong. They played 352. They have used a back 3 in the last 3 games, so it was obvious this was coming. If you have a back 3, then if you have 3 forwards you can pin them back into a 532. This means there is no width in their side and our fullbacks can really get at them too. Doubling up on the flanks. Coleman should not have played for this reason. This was not his game. I think a properly stocked 433 can rip a 352 to shreds. The 4231 struggles against the 352 as the wingers can get tied to the wingbacks and so you end up in a 451, which is what happened. Kean and Richarlison should have been told to forget about the wingbacks and get at the opposition centre-backs. This is kind of what happened but our fullbacks were not following in enough. But we saw the defensive side of the plan in action as the Gomes / Delph insurance policy was there with both getting wide and covering the fullbacks on the rare Watford forays forwards.
Mark Guglielmo
112 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:31:45
Jason @103, you got me thinking when talking about Pickford vs. those 2 world class keepers, so I looked up their stats, for this year only.

Alisson of course was injured from Aug 17 through Oct 5, so he definitely did not have as many saves in a month. Ederson on the other hand, has 27 saves this year, to go with 5 clean sheets and 9 goals allowed.

Our boy has 24 saves through the same 10 matchdays, with 3 clean sheets and 16 goals allowed. May want to rethink your stance as it seems very homer-ish. Pickford can make a brilliant stop at any given time, but he's not a very good keeper for 90 minutes. IMO of course.

Mark Guglielmo
113 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:36:29
Steve @111, he might, but there's no body of evidence (in his young career) to suggest that. I would agree he has the raw talent to potentially morph into that type of role, and very much agree that he's being ruined in a 4-2-3-1 (anyone else sick and tired of having to type that formation out? lol). I still think he needs to be loaned out, despite that not helping him acclimatize to the EPL.

On a semi-related note, Coleman was absolutely wretched tonight.

Ciarán McGlone
114 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:36:37
This isn't chess, it's football.

Talk about paralysis by analysis.

Colin Malone
115 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:38:03
To criticise the forwards is harsh. On numerous occasions, I saw Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison making runs time and time again, only for the ball to be passed square.

Delph is not the answer. I would like to see Gomes and Sigurdsson in midfield to aid the forwards making runs.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

116 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:38:26
It very rarely happens, but it did today.

I tuned into a live stream with NO match commentary, just the effect mics picking up the crowd. It was so clear I could pick up individual comments reacting to in-game plays.

Judging by the comments I heard (supporters on other sides of the ground wouldn't have had such a close up look to the plays commented on) I'm guessing that primarily the most prominent effect mics were on the Bullens Road side.

In the first half it was easy to also hear the negative reaction from the Watford fans when Richarlison got on the ball; the inevitable mocking chant towards Silva of 'You're getting sacked in the morning' and...the very, VERY clear booing of Everton at half-time and one or two choice expletives in thick Scouse accents.

I would be delighted if I could watch every match thus, with just the crowd effects and no commentary.

Mark Guglielmo
117 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:40:13
Ciaran, yes, but would we allow set piece goals playing chess?
Steve Ferns
118 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:40:25
Eddie, Iwobi tracking back, getting a foot in, carrying the ball from deep, yeah saw that. He did it well. That's not the same as operating as a box-to-box midfielder for 90 minutes though. It's not his game. It's not his strengths. Why negate his strengths? I'd play him in a free-ish role in a 433 formation where two midfielders can sit in behind him and tidy up after him and he is able to link the play together. Slightly deeper than in a 433, which more emphasis on closing down and getting back, but without any real responsibility for tackling or proper defending.

Main thing, get those two strikers who played as wingers further forwards and much narrower, and allow them to come deep for the ball. As get them running from outside to in, and inside to out, so as to pull the defence apart and create spaces for diagonal passes and allow them to use their pace to get through. Our forward line was too static, too easily makred and we need the fluidity and flexibility of a 433, and with those three forwards, we have the personnel to play it. Sure, they aren't as good as the top 2's forward lines, but there's a lot of potential there and Calvert_Lewin and Richarlison have proven themselves to an extent over the last 18 months, so why not give them a chance to show that they can do it. Especially when Sigurdsson does not play and they can be so narrow without worrying about taking up his positions.

Steve Ferns
119 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:42:40
Ciaran, try telling that to an Italian like Conte, Allegri, or even Guglielmo.

Mark, if Kean was loaned out to a Championship club, he'd be requesting a transfer. You must think the lad is special if you saw him last season. I think the Premier League does not suit him as a central 9. But if he plays off Calvert-Lewin as an inside forward, then I think he will find his feet and show us why he is special.

John Reynolds
120 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:45:35
I only saw the second half. Three observations.

We were far better than Watford.

Game management was significantly
better than we’ve seen this season to date. We shut it down as a contest after Mason’s goal.

Despite the “Marco Out” tone on here of late, there was no sense of that from the crowd at Goodison. This pleases me.

Mark Guglielmo
121 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:53:29
Oh no Steve @119, don't mistake me, I want him loaned out to a club outside of England. He'd kill it in the Bundesliga. It hasn't taken me long to come to think the only thing we can do now is attempt to showcase him elsewhere to sell him at a profit in the not-so-distant future. He desperately needs a run at a club that will use him properly and restore his confidence. I'd hate to be inside his head right now.

You're right, I really do think he's special, I watched all of Juve's matches with him last year, and then what I could of Italy (I am a paesano after all).

My opinion could completely change depending on our next manager, but given our current state, he shouldn't be playing here. Completely guts me because I love the kid.

Christy Ring
122 Posted 29/10/2019 at 23:54:34
First half very poor no drive in midfield, felt sorry for Coleman and Digne, Kean is not a winger and Richarlison did nothing Gomes had a good 2nd half and has a killer pass, but Davies would suit better beside him Walcott made a big difference and Holgate impressed as for Watford they made 8 changes for this game so Sunday’s game will be huge for Silva
Andy Crooks
123 Posted 29/10/2019 at 00:00:24
John Reynolds,I have just delivered a Silva out post. I would like to use your balanced post as an example of how one can become entrenched in one's views. I have thought again and your post has set me thinking more. Really good post.. What this site should be about.
However, Silva Out.
Christy Ring
124 Posted 29/10/2019 at 00:01:26
Steve agree with you about Iwobi skilful on the ball good link up play unlucky not to score, but tracking back and putting in a tackle to win the ball not in his dna
Andy Crooks
125 Posted 30/10/2019 at 00:04:52
Holgate will be great. Proper player. He and Mina will be special. He will be better than Stones and I think that Stones is special. We have Kenny to come back, also.
John Reynolds
126 Posted 30/10/2019 at 00:10:25
Andy 123. I’m going to copy and save your post. The next time you’ll see it will be on the 1st March 2020, shortly after Seamus brandishes the Carabao Cup over his head in Wembley. 😊
Christy Ring
127 Posted 30/10/2019 at 00:13:57
Andy have to say Mina looked class in the 1st half, Holgate didn’t put a foot wrong, a bit like Ake, would love if he was a couple of inches taller, but Watford’s attack especially Gray was shocking
John Reynolds
128 Posted 30/10/2019 at 00:30:55
If I were Marco Silva, I’d build the team around Pickford, Digne, Holgate, Davies, Iwobi, Richarlison & Calvert-Lewin. These are players who give their best whenever they’re selected. (Even when their best isn’t quite good enough). Seamus and Delph for a bit of guidance. Maybe Mina. Every other position up for grabs. Sigurdsson, Gomes, Walcott, Schneiderlin, Keane, Kean, Sidibe, Bernard, JP when he’s fit, Tosun etc, let them fight it out.
Christy Ring
129 Posted 30/10/2019 at 00:36:41
Still say we’re going to miss the magic of Bernard he offers something different
Jamie Crowley
130 Posted 30/10/2019 at 00:36:45
Andy Crooks -

My God that live forum is vile.

It can be. But I do love it. There's a lot of knee jerk, emotional comments. Don't judge anyone by what they say on the Live Forum. It's all done in the heat of the moment.

The Live Forum is easily my favorite feature of TW. By a country mile.

Neil Wood
131 Posted 30/10/2019 at 00:39:53
I’ve said previously that I think Holgate is one of the most technically gifted footballers at the club.

I would of played him in the DM role personally he has a certain bite and swagger to his game and can also cover. He’s a far far better player than most give him credit for.

Jamie Crowley
132 Posted 30/10/2019 at 00:44:52
And then, my Live-Forum-ish rant on Marco -

Moise Kean. A 19 year old kid. Nineteen. Stew on that for just a second.. . 19

He made his Everton career start in lively fashion, snapping off two good attempts on goal that I remember. He looked damn good, full of energy, and ready to take on the world and put Everton on his back and carry them forward.

Then he was benched. And he's primarily made appearances off the bench, only when trailing, and usually when we're playing absolute shit. Not the best way to bring a kid into Premier League life.

And today, he was started not up top, but out wide. Inside of a flailing team by all accounts. I couldn't watch as I was on the road for business. But I listened to the second half, and the announcers could only rip the living shit out of our performance in the first half. They said it was dire, and nothing I've read would contradict that.

So here's Moise, played out of position (ish), inside another abject effort and performance by his teammates, and Silva yanks him.

How in the holy hell is this kid ever supposed to succeed? Silva is doing a terrible, terrible job with this kid. Whether he's good enough or not isn't the question (I think he will be, time will tell). How do you help a 19 year old succeed doing the above?

It's completely counter-intuitive, and it's ruining our young prospect.

We won. I'm thrilled with that. But Marco has to - has to - change his approach with our young, talented prospect and player.

It's gawd-awful the way he's handling him.

Jer Kiernan
133 Posted 30/10/2019 at 00:55:14
@Jamie 132
I agree 100%, I said pretty much the same in Live Forum noting it is HE not Zaha who should be firing his agent, I was told by a certain regular on ToffeeWeb that he is not good enough for PL and Juve done us over ( same poster admitted to knowing nothing of his Juve days) and then preceeded to tell ME that I wouldnt know a decent player if he ran throw my living room or some other clownish analogy, I noted he was talkin out of his beHIND !!

Point is if we can afford all this goodwill and time to DCL surely this lad who drove Juves tittle charge last year deserves better (not like were scoring for fun)

Silva is out of his debt is in my opinion damaged goods and although I would love for him to miraculously turn into a success judging by what I have seen ( almost every game of his tenure) the chances of him stumbling upon a winning formula is lookin less likely each game

We were stinking again 1st half tonight

Oliver Molloy
134 Posted 30/10/2019 at 00:58:08
Italian strikers have not got a great record in the PL and Juventis are no mugs !
Jamie Crowley
135 Posted 30/10/2019 at 01:00:53
Jer -

I saw those comments, while driving. Don't text and drive kids! Never mind for 140 mile trip! Dangerous stuff!

The guy you were having it out with, is one of my TW favorites. Full stop, great dude in my opinion.

You're both right. There's a place in this squad for both young, talented players. I wouldn't know how to fit them both in, but there's a way. I'm not paid millions to make those decisions, but both DCL and Kean are young players who need to be playing, stepping up, taking responsibility, and enhancing our play and future.

In short, and in between the hand grenades you both were throwing, you're both right about your main point - DCL and Kean are the future and should be playing more, and in the correct situations to their strengths. In my opinion.

Jer Kiernan
136 Posted 30/10/2019 at 01:08:42
@Jamie 135
I am not gona start back stabbin your mate but if he is making a call like that SOLELY on Keanes Everton career that is complete insanity for me

I don't think it is fair on a player who has had no opportunity to prove himself

Silva is a manager out of his depth and clinging to the liferaft for survival. If Lampard was in our dugout Kean would be bangin them in I am convinced of it

Anyways i am off to bed to dream about football in the 80s :) all the best man

John Reynolds
137 Posted 30/10/2019 at 01:10:04
Jamie 132, Apologies, but that reads like nonsense to me. Moise is a full Italian international footballer. He has played and scored several times for Juventus in Serie A. He cost c.€30m. You suggest that playing him on the right side of the attack is “gawd-awful”. Why? Even Thierry Henry started as a wide man when he came to the Premier League first.

Is he already so specialised that he can’t contribute anything from outside the no.9 role?

Jamie Crowley
138 Posted 30/10/2019 at 01:10:41
Jer -

Dream of silverware and a League Cup winning team in 2020. ;0)

Bill Gienapp
139 Posted 30/10/2019 at 01:14:21
Didn't get to see the match (I already pay for NBC Sports Gold here in the States so I can watch every one of Everton's Premier League matches, so ESPN+ can kiss my ass), but I did check out the goals online.

Thought Iwobi was the unsung hero of that first goal - he really outfought the Watford defense to keep that attack alive after they repelled the initial corner. And while Richarlison's clincher was a classic case of exploiting a stretched defense in the final moments, it really was a cracking finish. Would love to see more of that on Sunday.

If we'd lost, I'm guessing there'd be well over 300 comments by now. Just saying.

Jamie Crowley
140 Posted 30/10/2019 at 01:17:01
John -

I don't think it plays to his strengths. He's a striker, not a wide man. For me.

Also... and this may seem a reach, but I believe it has some merit. your mileage may vary.

Moise Kean was brought into Everton to be the striker that changed our fortunes. Someone who would awaken the goal scoring slumber. The young Jesus riding his horse into town while we laid palms at his feet. A bit hyperbole, but stay with me.

When that's the expectation, and you then choose to play him out wide, all the while playing someone up top that can and does play out wide well, the subliminal message to young Moise is a negative one.

I don't trust you up top. If I did, I'd play you there.

Surely there's a wee bit of a let-down when you realize you've been "demoted" out of the position you were brought in to play at?

Moise Kean isn't Thierry Henry. He should be up top, in games and situations he can show his worth. Not out wide. And not subbed in while down 0-1 and the team is playing crap. That's no way to handle a 19 year old.

I define that, John, as Gawd-awful management. You can disagree. We'll just agree to do so.

Jamie Crowley
141 Posted 30/10/2019 at 01:23:39
John -

One more thing. I'm not Marco, and I'd probably be fired and never win a single game as manager. But!

I'd pull a "Fat Frank", a la Mason Mount, and have three young players completely taking center stage and playing a ton, and building around them. Taking the lumps and mistakes as they come, letting them learn and develop, gain experience, the whole 9 yards.

DCL, Moise Kean, and Tom Davies.

I believe in all three players. Their talent, their skill, their technical ability, and their effort.

We've won 3 of 10 games. Why not build for the future and make these kids the centerpiece of our team?

I see no downside to doing so. I'd go all-in on all three of them.

John Reynolds
142 Posted 30/10/2019 at 01:42:53
Jamie, I refer you back to mine at 128. We largely agree. I just don’t see that Moise has showed enough to get the no.9 yet. He’s 3rd behind Dominic and Richarlson for now. If he can take his chances and impress when given opportunities like tonight, then fine. But he didn’t, and the whispers from Finch Farm aren’t good by all accounts. We may have been sold a pup. It wouldn’t be the first time.
Michael Long
143 Posted 30/10/2019 at 01:45:55
Happy with the win and into the next round. However this papers over the cracks right now. I still think if we lose on Sunday, Silva has to go. Yes we're in the quarter finals of the cup but look at our league position and form. We need wins and honestly with the games coming up, I don't see Silva being the man to motivate these players going into that daunting period. We could be in the bottom 3. We concede first it's game over because simple as, Silva has no plan B at all to turning things around when trailing. His record says it all.


As for tonight. First half was the most boring game of football I have ever seen in my life. No urgency, no flare and no plan other than pass side ways and backwards and lumping it up field to no mans land. Like watching Allardyce football. Second half we were the better side and judging by the second half we deserved the win. I give Walcott a lot of shit, however he done well when he came on. Iwobi, Richarlison and Holgate also did well too.

One disappointment tonight again was Seamus Coleman. I love seamus, been a great servant to the club once a superb player. But right now wether in January or more likely summer, I'd get rid. Don't want Coleman to end up like Osman, Distin and Howard were all players had very good years with Everton for than being overused towards the end, where the fans were using them as scapegoats. Best thing we do to both Coleman and Baines is to do what we did with Jags last summer and say thank you but time to go.


Must win game on Sunday now.

Mark Guglielmo
144 Posted 30/10/2019 at 01:51:27
John @142, let me begin by saying that I agree 100% with Jer & Jamie, and I will also go out on a limb and say I've likely seen him play more than anyone here, though if anyone else watched his 13 games with Juve, or his Italian national team matches, I stand corrected and apologize.

But I am curious if you could expand upon the 'whispers from Finch Farm?' I know some here are maybe privy to info the rest of us at large are not, so I'd genuinely like to know. Thanks.

Jamie Crowley
145 Posted 30/10/2019 at 02:07:26
John -

I completely blacked out with Iwobe. He's been great, and I'd include him in my "build around" group.

You say about Kean, "He hasn't showed enough to get the no. 9 yet."

How can you show enough when you're relegated to playing off the bench for 10 to 15 minutes, in a losing cause, while everyone around you plays like shit? Also, I think more than a few appearances were with the Mighty Morgan behind him, playing those cutting balls only he can, for Moise to get on the end of! COUGH COUGH!

And tonight, put out wide, not where he should be. In the single appearance he made while we were playing decent, and with enough time to make a mark on the game and not placed into said game while the team was losing (that's ONE time mind you from my memory) he looked damn good.

It's about playing the players in their natural, most effective positions. Heck, I'd argue now having seen Iwobe at the 10, he's shined recently because he's in his best position. Out wide I always noticed he drifted in. Now placed inside, he's been so, so much better.

Moise needs to be given a real, proper run up top. Otherwise we're simply not putting the kid in the best environment to succeed.

You don't prove yourself at the 9 by playing well out wide. The gateway to the 9 shouldn't be through the door to the left or the right.

Jamie Crowley
146 Posted 30/10/2019 at 02:25:03
And finally, as I drone on and on -

One might say Kean hasn't had the chance to play because he's actually a dud. He's not as good as made out to be. The "whispers" from Finch Farm indicate he's not "all that".

Here's my issue with that.

Our manager, and the way he's handled our young talent.

Moise Kean - read above comments. Diabolical the way he's handled.

Tom Davies - has had sideways Morgan and Delph played in front of him continually. And I like Delph, but the more I watch him play, he's clearly a "better Schneiderlin" and passes it off sideways. He was in a system at Man City where he could do just that. Pass it east-west to supremely talented players safely, and let them do the heavy lifting. We need someone like Tom, not Morgan or Delph, who will actually play the ball forward. But nope, Tom keeps getting benched by our genius manager.

JonJoe Kenny - somewhere in Germany

Mason Holgate - Behind an ineffective Michael Keane (whom I like, but out of form players need to be dropped).

Iwobe - mysteriously played behind the season-long out of form Sigurdsson

DCL - the platoon kid. In and out more than an adult film star.

That's six young players getting shafted and not being played (or transferred), while the players in front of them completely fuck the pooch and still start. Playing a brand of football that isn't fun to watch and creates little to no chances on goal.

And our manager keeps hitting the rinse and repeat cycle.

I don't buy the whispers at Finch Farm narrative. I see a manager who's not giving the kids a real shot at success.

But Jamie, you say, he sees them every day in training! Maybe they're not ready?!


Ya, ok. They're not ready, but the usual suspects who have seen us win 3 of our first 10 League games are? Sure. Sure. They're not ready, and the guys playing in front of them and completely underachieving are. Sure.

Mark Guglielmo
147 Posted 30/10/2019 at 02:27:22
Jamie, to be fair, I believe he also got some playing time with Gylfi, who does have 1 more assist than Morgan *sly grin*
Bill Gall
148 Posted 30/10/2019 at 02:40:41
Type or paste your comment here. PLEASE capitalise initial letters of proper names and use proper grammar. No txt-speak; all-lowercase posts are likely to be deleted
Derek Knox
149 Posted 30/10/2019 at 03:02:08
Didn't watch the game, or even listen on the radio, have read through the Live Forum, in which I normally participate, just couldn't bring myself to do any of the above.

I have had enough of Silva the fraud, while I'm happy Everton are in the next round, I watched the 'highlights' of which there were few, but it doesn't augur well for the next game against Spuds. The sooner that idiot is jettisoned the better.

Bill Gall
150 Posted 30/10/2019 at 03:03:29
Supporters are talking about the treatment Kean is getting, and he should be given a good run out at the central striker position he was bought for, it may sound daft but why don't give him a game in the under 23s. I thought it was poor to put him on the wing and though the team looked good on paper someone should tell Silva the game is played on grass.

All joking aside the first half I am of the opinion was the worst 45+ mins of football from Everton for a long,long time and it did not take much to improve it the second half.

I don't now if there are any top managers out there who can come in sort out the mess we are in but it certainly doesn't look if Silva will be capable of getting us up to to the top 10 never mind the top 6.

John Pierce
151 Posted 30/10/2019 at 03:36:18
Well I watched this on delay (what a fool I am), and after 50 minutes I was sure we’d get knocked out. Labored and stultifying against a makeshift Watford. It was dire.

I was pretty surprised to see Mina in the line up and it was a poor call, the crowd pleasing inclusion of nearly every attacking player we had made us top heavy and unbalanced.

We looked very disjointed and only Iwobi continues to please the eye. Trying every time to find a player with some craft. Sadly too often the statues he has for team mates looked on in bemusement.

Silva’s deployment of Kean is a gross mismanagement, fighting for his own job, he’s taking the lad down with him.
The service and mode of play just ignores every skill the lad has. Didn’t Brands tell his mum we’d look after him?

Holgate’s contributions are noted, but those baby steps will be tested against Kane and Son come Sunday. Encouraging though.

The positive is we are through and might get a favorable draw. This win gets Silva almost no credit, against a poor side he made his usual selection errors, cost himself a sub and only guilding the Lilly in the waning seconds.

The fact I could hear the conversations, burps and bad shouts in every stand until the 50th or so minute was testament to how poor it was.

Roll on Spurs.

Andrew Keatley
152 Posted 30/10/2019 at 03:41:54
Mark G - I've read your recent ToffeeWeb takeover with great interest. And I thought Steve Ferns posted a lot.

You say (144) - about Moise Kean - "I've likely seen him play more than anyone here, though if anyone else watched his 13 games with Juve, or his Italian national team matches, I stand corrected and apologize."

Kean only started 5 of those 13 games. He played about 500 minutes in Serie A last season. He went on a hot streak of goal-scoring (6 in 6 games) when surrounded by a team of world-class players, and in his best moments can finish like Romario or Jermain Defoe. In his worst moments looks like he is very much still learning the game - which he is!

When he played at Hellas Verona as a 17-year-old he played twice as many Serie A minutes (well over 1000), and only scored 4 goals. So... which sample do we want to use - the 6 in 6 for Juventus, his promising but hardly incandescent season at Hellas Verona, his consistently decent International record, or his tame 400-odd minutes in an Everton shirt? If we use all of them then I think the jury is well and truly out.

I wonder how much we all really knew about Kean before he was linked with us - beyond YouTube highlights and newspaper write-ups - but I am genuinely bemused by the faith that a lot of fans seem to have in Kean. I wonder if it is hope more than anything - hope that we've somehow got our hands on one of the hottest young properties in world football. From what I can tell, it seems that will score goals when playing in a talented team that allows him to play centrally as a classic centre-forward. Beyond that I don't know. My fear is that his all-round game is very raw and limited, and Silva will not risk giving him too many minutes in a misfiring Everton team.

It's not all bad news though... I actually do think we have one of the hottest young properties in world football - but his name is Anthony Gordon. With a fair wind that lad is going to go a long long way. Also check out Bobby Carroll's last-minute winner for the Under 18s against Fulham... and the subsequent pile-on; highlights on the club app.

Roman Sidey
153 Posted 30/10/2019 at 04:14:47
Relieved for the win, and impressed by a few players in the second half. I can't understand why Silva would sub Kean if he's trying to play him into a bit of form. A cup match against a winless team was always going to open up toward the end - which it did.

Pleased for Holgate getting his first goal - it was a classic centre-half goal with excellent work from Iwobi and then Walott to set it up. Walcott is still one of our better runners in the team, but he seems to delay his shot more in his advanced years which isn't overly fantastic.

Coleman is done. He hasn't got the pace anymore, lets very average players past him on the wing, and doesn't even have a very good first touch anymore. Watch how many balls go out for throws on his side of the field next time he plays.

Was surprisingly happy with Tosun off the bench too. He runs at loose balls and 1%ers which puts defenders in two minds, and his final pass for Richarlison's goal showed intelligence as it was played at the perfect time with perfect weight. Not many of our players are pulling those passes off lately when given the rare chance.

Against Spurs, Davies has to play. They are a shambles at the moment. Worst they've been in over a decade, with problems in the spine and very weak defensive wings. Davies, given approval, will run them ragged. Anything other than a win against them is totally unacceptable.

Mark Guglielmo
154 Posted 30/10/2019 at 04:25:32
Hey Andrew, thanks for noticing. Tough to be a straightforward American in a sea of more reserved Englishmen (and women), but I'm kind of a 'take it or leave it' type and am sure there are plenty who have chosen the latter. I'll try to post less since it does seem to irritate a few.

Re: Kean though, your observation about him playing with world-class players is both astute and revealing. We don't have world class players. So to me, in order to "up his game," he should be playing where he's accustomed to playing: at CF.

Yes he only started 6 games of his 13 appearances; he scored 4 goals in those 6 games (I know that, I watched them)! All 13 games were at CF. Whether Ronaldo was next to him or not is irrelevant when all we're talking about is playing him in the right position and asking for a wing or midfielder to get him the ball. Those 6 goals came from only 10 shots on target. Pretty much indicates that he should be in the area, getting the ball, not being asked to create by himself. I do find it odd that you seem to casually dismiss his form with any number of reasons behind it, but ignoring that for a moment, aren't strikers expected to go on hot streaks and score goals? I bet we'd all love someone who could score goals at that rate!

He also played 3 times for Italy, though one was only a friendly. The other 2 were UEFA qualifying round matches, both of which he started, and he scored. Interestingly, Italy did use him as a wing in those 2 matches. Left wing.

He did get into 3 CL matches, all as a sub, but failed to score. All 3 games he played CF. No one (here) cares about the Coppa Italia, but the 1 game he played, he scored, as a CF (anyone noticing a trend here?).

So if all appearances matter, he played in 17 club matches, all at CF, and scored 7 times. All as an 18-year-old. Well, not counting his U21/U20 appearances (9 games, 5 goals).

We definitely could go back to when he was 17 at Verona but I quite honestly never saw him play aside from a video compilation or 2. Heck why don't we go back to his 36 U17 matches when he scored 29 goals (never saw those either to be fair). I just think last year was most relevant. Useless to judge him at Everton because he may as well have played 0 minutes the way Silva is choosing to use him.

If it isn't clear he has all the talent in the world, well, not sure what to say. I can tell you that at least for last year, he didn't play 1 single minute as a right wing in a 4-2-3-1 (or any formation for that matter). Anyway, I'll stop posting about Kean. I think I've said all that needs to be said. I and a few others are biased because we've seen what he can do. Others are biased because they're of the "prove it" school of thought. Neither are wrong! The only ones who are wrong are those shitting on him when really they haven't seen him play.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading my short novella.

Have a great evening, day, night, cheers.

(p.s. I'd love to see Gordon get some looks too; good luck with that with Silva as manager though)

John Keating
155 Posted 30/10/2019 at 04:27:48
Positives
Result and Holgate

Negatives
Dire performance

Do we have to stick with Silva until our trip in the LC lasts?

Mike Gaynes
156 Posted 30/10/2019 at 04:53:00
I couldn't care less about "dire" or "turgid" or "woeful" or "poor" or any of the other descriptive terms rolled out here as long as we win.

Yeah, I know, I'm an uncultured Colonial clod, but if I want to watch something aesthetically pleasing I'll turn on the National Geographic Channel or open the Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition.

This club is never gonna produce art. But if it produces wins, I don't give a damn. Today was a win and that's all that matters.

Except for the idiocy of Silva playing an injured Mina. That matters too.

Bill Gienapp
157 Posted 30/10/2019 at 05:13:08
Mark G. is like the guy who shows up late to the party and then tries to make himself the center of attention. Ha ha - I kid, I kid. Always nice to see someone passionate inject a fresh perspective on here - especially a fellow Yank!

And I agree with Mike - it may not have been the most scintillating performance, but if you score goals and keep clean sheets, good things will inevitably happen.

Jason Broome
158 Posted 30/10/2019 at 05:21:24
Could it be that all of the negativity on social media (me included) has finally lit a fire under the arses of the team and brought them together.

They say fans have little to no influence over a club, but from what I witnessed in the second half I saw a team fighting for their manager.

Long my it continue.

Darren Hind
159 Posted 30/10/2019 at 05:36:53
Jer

A couple of things. Firstly I did not say I hand not seen any of Kean at Juve.

And secondly. Let me point something out; Anybody who has taken any notice to stuff I post on these boards will tell you I defend young players to the hilt. I hate to see youngsters getting hammered. Hate it and I wont be doing it to Kean.

I played well into my forties. I coached and managed for around 15 years too. Unfortunately like everyone else I ever met In the game, failed in my attempt to make my judgement infallible... but I did learn a few things. . To look out for certain qualities.

Footballers are worth their weight in gold today and when Arsenal and Juve agreed so readily to let us have Iwobi and Kean. I was highly suspicious. . So I watched a lot of both of them any matches they had played and any footage I could find of them. My suspicion grew.

People may not want to accept that we have paid through the nose for these players, just like they didnt want to face facts about all those pups we have bought and are currently making up our squad, but I call it as I see it.

I know Kean has had a tough baptism, I know he is a young kid playing out of position for a less than convincing manager, in a foreign country, However (and this is where I base my judgement) He has not shown me anything at all to quell my suspicion that Juventus had us over. Yes he barges around a lot, but what else have you seen since he got here ? You must surely have learned by now, that what a player does in another country counts for nothing once they arrive in England. The ALL have to prove themselves all over again.

Nothing in this game gives me greater pleasure than seeing young player strutting his stuff for Everton and I would dearly love Kean and Iwobi to prove me totally wrong. But I've seen all of their games for Everton and a lot more than a few you tube clips for Juve and Arsenal. I don't believe I am wrong.

I get it Jer. I have seen your constant criticsm of DCL and like most people, you want to be proved right. but if you are offended by my comments about these two, I suggest you give the article I am putting together about our transfer policy a very wide berth.

I will always give an opinion about a young player, but I have never seen the mileage in coming back week after week to batter the same player. Kean will not even be mentioned in the article. What I do know, is that we've bought more Pups than a Yorkshire dog breeder.

Jamie Crowley
160 Posted 30/10/2019 at 05:44:09
Mike -

I agree with your bottom line thinking, to a point.

It's easy to say that after a victory. But presently, over a sampling of 10 games this season, and a majority of last season, you're going to have pretty shit odds rolling out the "I don't care about form as long as we win."

Form begets victory. Our form, in the main, is shit. Victories are few, and will continue to be few, with our present form.

I want to win in the end. Bottom line. But ignoring poor and turgid performances 7 out of 10 games in the league is a recipe for disaster in the long term.

If we were winning the majority of the time, losing a few, and we win the odd game ugly, then go ahead and say, "who cares how we played, we won."

But that's not our current landscape. We are playing and losing, the majority of the time. That's not good. And saying turgid and insipid performances don't matter, if your landscape is as crappy as ours currently is? You're ignoring the issues and papering over the cracks.

We need a consistent run of "West Ham games." We're getting a consistent serving of diarrheal soft-serve ice cream instead.

We're playing awfully. That doesn't bode well for the future, even if we do pull a rabbit out of a shit cap every now and again.

Jerome Shields
161 Posted 30/10/2019 at 05:58:08
My two Centre Backs would be Holgate and Zouma, more mobility and better distribution, plus the right attitude.
Jack Convery
162 Posted 30/10/2019 at 06:55:06
A fine fish I love that. Oxford next please and a pass back of historic proportions.
Jim Harrison
163 Posted 30/10/2019 at 06:56:43
Mike G

Almost spot on!

I agree, the end result is all that counts. But I would rather it was achieved it an attractive manner!!

But base line, if we do, by some chance, end up in the final, a goal ahead against city in the 89th minute, who is going to care whether the Watford game was a classic or a convincing win?

It was a win. Two more goals, one more clean sheet. Hopefully the turning point. If not, then shit. But still, next game we go again.

Far too much hand writing and analysis for me!

Fran Mitchell
164 Posted 30/10/2019 at 07:19:05
Jerome, Zouma is a Chelsea player, and judging by Lampards comments "He (Zouma) has been fantastic", he ain't going anywhere soon.

Was interesting to see Lampards comments regards to how young players need to be trusted and not dropped after one bad game. Here at Everton the opposite approach is adopted.

Glad Holgate has stepped up. He and Mina should remain as first choice for the time being.

Kean also needs more starts, he needs a goal, an de he needs to feel that the manager believes in him. Taking him off at half time is just woeful man management.

Davies getting dropped so hastily also. Gomes is hardly lighting the place up, but who gets dropped is the young lad.

Brian Porter
165 Posted 30/10/2019 at 07:21:43
Jamie Crowley, agree with you 100% re Moise Kean. His family probably feel they were sold 'a crock of shit' to use one of your American phrases. So much for Brands/Silva assuring them "we will look after your son."
Silva is just not giving the lad a chance to shine in his preferred position.
I'm not going to add any more as I think you've said it all.

Also agree with you at #160. 7 defeats in 10 games is inarguably relegation form, so, why is Silva still here?

Steavey Buckley
166 Posted 30/10/2019 at 07:24:22
Everton with less quality in midfield since Bernard's injury, Everton will have to rely upon pace and get the ball forward as quickly as possible to gain victories. That's the main positive I can take from last night's game. Although, Holgate's and Richarlison's finishing were excellent.
Gerry Ring
167 Posted 30/10/2019 at 07:33:42
It would be a great lift to win a cup this season. The reality is, Silva has been with us long enough & brought in lots of players to be judged as to whether he’s got what it takes. Unfortunately he doesn’t. We’re no better than before he took over. Kean is another who, it appears, no longer interests Marco. His confidence must be through the floor. If we look at Leicester & the impact Brendan Rodgers has had. They play superb football & have gone from bottom 6 to top 3. No where in Marcos past record is there any evidence that he has the ability to steer Everton to success.
Peter Mills
168 Posted 30/10/2019 at 07:46:23
Michael#156, having stated before, during and after the match that “all that matters is a win”, I feel a touch churlish to take issue with your post. But on a cold evening at Goodison, and at future games, a little bit of entertaining football would be quite nice.

Given our current circumstances, I am happy to take the win and move on to the next round. But “this club is never gonna produce art”? I’m sorry, that is exactly what we aspire to, that’s why we keep going, because we (and that includes you, it’s why you started supporting Everton) have seen footballing grand masters in that blue shirt.

For good measure, while we watch that art show, we don’t really want to be chatting too much with the people around us, good company though that it is in my case. We want to be howling the team forwards, encouraging them to defend like demons, intimidating the referee and making the opposition wish they were safely back in the dressing room.

Despite the talk from the manager, players and officials at the club, there is very little evidence that they understand those aspirations.

Lenny Kingman
169 Posted 30/10/2019 at 07:51:26
Me
"We beat Sheffield Wednesday of course in the 1966 FA Cup final and lo and behold tonight we have the next team we beat in the FA Cup Final in 1984 coming to town.

Is there something in the air for the League Cup this term. Hope so. I'm going for 2-0. (smiley)"

Reply
"Lenny @46, events in 1966 or even Oxford 1984 have no bearing whatsoever to the football world in 2019."

Looks like history counts for something after all eh Joe!

Rob Young
170 Posted 30/10/2019 at 07:51:41
Jason #158
In the opening hour I saw no fire at all, zilch.
What I saw after that was the crowd becoming MOTM and the players actually responding for a change.

Let not kid ourselves, we were still pretty awful.
Midfield is a huge problem area. Watford, and West Ham in our previous win, seemed to be able to run through at will.


Gomes is just not very good at all, is he?
Davies, as shown at Brighton, is also not very good and has never produced consistently.

Anyway, on our way to Wembley!

Eddie Dunn
171 Posted 30/10/2019 at 07:53:46
Fran, on the subject of Zouma, it will be interesting to see if he keeps his place when Christenson and Rudiger come back from injury.
However, the best we could expect would be in the summer.
Meanwhile Holgate exuded class. Composed on the ball read the game and distributed it well and capped it with a goal and a stirring celebration.
And may I echo Mike Gaynes in asking why Mina was risked? He tweaked that knee early on and was hobbling before eventually succumbing to it. Surely this sort of selection will simply deprive us of his services for a longer period. Dumb.
Steve @118, Iwobi started a little nervously but really had a good game. He is so lively and must be a pain to mark. It was noticable that simply swapping wings Walcott and Richarlison confused the Hornet's defence and Walcott's cross lead to the winner.
Ciarán McGlone
172 Posted 30/10/2019 at 08:03:15
People talking about winning cups after that awful display... and that winning is more important than good football.

A complete detachment from reality on both counts.

Sometimes I really think we get the club we deserve.

Duncan McDine
173 Posted 30/10/2019 at 08:06:10
Not sure if I’m alone in thinking that the lads put in one hell of a shift last night. I thought they ran their bollocks off, but must admit that there was zero quality whatsoever in the first half. Hopefully Kean will come good, but he’d be the first to admit that he didn’t really know what the hell he was doing last night. Theo came on at half time and we started to look more threatening... it was just a matter of time before we’d score. We were all over them and that’s as much down to how crap Watford are as anything else. We beat them though, and we’re talking about yet another team to come and frustrate (if not park the bus), so we’ll done Marco and the players for getting this job done. I’m under no illusions that we have turned the corner, as most of our top players are still well out of form, but with that kind of effort, we’ll at least improve.
Tony Everan
174 Posted 30/10/2019 at 08:09:42
Agree with the comments about Mina.

Why was he risked, didnt train last week, not fit to play on Saturday. Why not start Keane and Holgate and give Yerry a thorough rehab ? It doesn't make any sense.

Peter Mills
175 Posted 30/10/2019 at 08:26:45
Christy Ring, I had intended to call in at the Winslow to say hello. But I was bought an extra drink at the pub where I was already ensconced and, well, it became a choice between you and the beer - sorry!

Another time perhaps, hope you enjoyed the trip.

John Graham
176 Posted 30/10/2019 at 08:37:46
Great result against premiership opposition to get us into the quarter finals of the Carabao cup.
Had most of the possession and almost twice as many shots on goal, most shots on target, hitting the woodwork twice, more corners and less fouls.
All in all a good nights work.
hopefully will give the players a boost in confidence ready for Spurs on Saturday.
COYB
Danny Broderick
177 Posted 30/10/2019 at 08:48:42
That was a real game of 2 halves. I’ve only read the comments from 150 onwards, and there seems to be a lot of negativity in those posts!

The truth is, the first half was rubbish. The turning point in the game appears to be what was said in the dressing room at half time, and the subbing of Kean for Walcott. We must give credit where it’s due. Silva got criticism - rightly so in my book - for replacing Bernard with Sigurdsson at Brighton. He must be given credit for getting it right this time. He gave Kean a run out, and although he tried, he wasn’t at the races.

The second half was like a different team. Iwobi took control of the game and was looking to play Walcott through at every opportunity. Those 2 seem to link up well together. Digne also stepped up and we could have won by 3 or 4 goals. We hit the bar twice, Keane directed a free header inside the 6 yard box straight at the keeper. Walcott flashed a cross across the goal that only needed a tap in. It was much better. The crowd responded to the players pressing - although our failure to get a 2nd goal until late always meant that Watford were never out of the game.

If the second half had been as bad as the first, the manager and players would have deserved some stick. In all honesty, we played well second half and Pickford didn’t have a save to make. We also looked far more solid - I think it helps having Delph and Gomes in front of the centre halves, Delph seems to cover more ground than Davies and Gomes was back on form. The centre halves played well also, as did Lucas Digne.

We need to see more of the second half performance than the first half performance...

Joe McMahon
178 Posted 30/10/2019 at 08:49:26
Lenny @169, of course it does silly me! We will win this competition, win the premier league next year and have a home ground that makes the Emirates look like Goodison in 18 months time.

Let's just be realistic shall we. The Oxford games was in 1984, City were a nothing club and had The Kippax. As you can see a lot has changed since then.

Stan Schofield
179 Posted 30/10/2019 at 08:52:38
Another game that we pretty much controlled. Hit the woodwork twice, after hitting the woodwork more than once in a quite a few games. Worked hard, good team spirit. And we won.

Too many players are out of form for us to anticipate fluid football and plenty of goals in addition to the above. But there's every reason to anticipate those things when said players return to consistent form, when we might expect more displays like the West Ham one.

Keep calm and carry on, as they say.

Dave Ganley
180 Posted 30/10/2019 at 08:52:39
Peter Mills #168 that's about where I'm at too. Very happy coming away with the win last night but bloody hell it was poor football. On the way to the ground last night we were talking about how after every defeat someone is trotted out to say how they will learn from the performance but they never do. This was as insipid as it gets especially in the first half. But more bluster in the second but very little guile. God knows What they do in training but it looks like not much. Bear in mind Watford changed 8 players for this game and we made really heavy going of it. So much side to side nonsense shows that the manager just hasn't learned. A full house last night and apart from the merry band of Watford fans you could hear a pin drop in the first half the atmosphere was so flat. With the siren and kids flags you would think the players would at least be up for it but it was a terrible half of football killing any kind of atmosphere.

It's really hard watching and being an evertonian at times especially when there is no light at the end of the tunnel

Martin Berry
181 Posted 30/10/2019 at 08:53:30
If Iwobi can polish up his finishing we have a real player on our hands.
Pleased that Holgate got on the scoresheet, he can play but needs a little more beef on those shoulders.
Joe McMahon
182 Posted 30/10/2019 at 08:56:39
Pleased for Holgate. He has broken the Tony Hibbert duck! I'd like him to displace Keane.
Derek Thomas
183 Posted 30/10/2019 at 08:58:36
Tony @174; Why? Fear of losing, Silva took a gamble with Mina (for all we know Mina said he was good to go)...as he did with Gbamin. Both have backfired.

The man can't do right for doing wrong, he's plain unlucky - but hey, we're in the next round, so it'll go down in the 'job done' column.

That aside, He's done nothing to change my mind on the two fronts that worry me.
1) He's not up to the job.
2) Only the lack of a decent candidate is keeping him here.

Marcelo Bielsa - Come on down.

David Pearl
184 Posted 30/10/2019 at 09:10:16
“A beautiful cross from Walcott”. Must of killed Michael to write that! I thought he made all the difference and as Danny said he and Iwobi work well together.

If he plays Kean it should be from the bench and up top, though he is far from ready, I hate to say it but l would loan him to a Championship team in January to get some proper game time and confidence.

Silva is still a way from knowing his best 11. Much better in the second half, l thought we were excellent once we got going. DCL should play more on the shoulder if Iwobi has the ball at his feet, he runs with it. I don’t know, missing a bit of guile in midfield. Missing a few bits actually. Stray passes all over the pitch never helps.

Silva has to go for us to progress up the table, he’s holding us back. It’s time for a change.

Jerome Shields
185 Posted 30/10/2019 at 09:12:24
Fran #164,

Wishful thinking on my part regarding Zouma. I see our current first-choice centre-backs as a weak spot.

Keane repeatedly gets caught out of position, is prone to mistakes, and appears to need someone to hold his hand. Mina is injury-prone, poor at defending on the turn, and prone to lapses of concentration. For both, their height advantage is nullified by poor positioning and they are carthorses getting forward. Holgate's stats on distribution makes them both look ordinary, one being an ex-Barcelona player.

I agree with you regarding Davies, he is potentially far better than Gomes. Davies is a great link man and mobile at speed, held back by a ponderously slow midfield. It is noticable that Calvert-Lewin gets into better scoring positions when he plays. Sidibe also releases the ball a lot earlier, enabling Calvert-Lewin to run on to the ball.

Schniederlin (on management instructions), Gomes and Sigurdsson, can amount to one big roadblock going forward and a sieve when the opposition is pressing.

Kean is being badly managed; luckily he hasn't got Lookman or Vlasic to talk too. Again, he is suffering from a slow coach right up the spine of the side, which is both tactical and technical. He could be a great player and the one good thing about Bernard's injury is he may get more playing time. Bernard will be missed. Iowbi is mobile and at least trying.

The solutions are there except for Zouma, but will Silva finally see the light? I would put Schnerderlin, Gomes and Sigurdsson under more competitive pressure in selecting the team. Let them stews in the comfortable rot of Finch Farm.

David Pearl
186 Posted 30/10/2019 at 09:15:45
One final thing. WTF was he thinking in risking Mina? How long will he be out for now... This Silva guy is such a bell end. Even More than me.
Ken Kneale
187 Posted 30/10/2019 at 09:15:58
Peter & Dave - spot on for me too. This history and tradition of Everton is about fluent attacking football and craftsmen in a blue shirt. One of the (many) really sad aspects of our recent decades is the gradual demise of such having any importance with those at pitch or boardroom level. The consequence as we all see is the erosion of Everton's standing in the football world.

Sadly, like Peter, I see little at pitch or boardroom level currently to offer me any realistic possibility of a return to playing attractive football and gaining some prestige as a club again.

Trevor Peers
188 Posted 30/10/2019 at 09:22:18
Great result, crap performance. We're through to the next round and very grateful for it. We played well for 35 minutes of the second half, the first half showed how far we have fallen – we were on a par with the worst team in the premiership and it showed. It was truly turgid stuff.

Silva's body language spoke volumes: he looked a tragic figure on the touchline. He lacks inspiration – anyone can see that – it's an awful handicap for any team to carry into a match. I almost felt sorry for him, but he's being paid a fortune for something he's not very good at.

Tony Hill
189 Posted 30/10/2019 at 09:32:58
David @184, Walcott is effective at the moment. I assume he will start on Sunday.
John Reynolds
191 Posted 30/10/2019 at 09:53:11
Jamie & Mark,

I really hope your faith in Moise is justified. We'd all love to have a world-class young striker on our hands. In terms of how he's doing at Finch Farm, I have no personal insight whatsoever.

Just referencing a recent remark by Dave Prentice on the Royal Blue Podcast that he was hearing Kean was a long way from where he needed to be. (It may have been Greg O'Keeffe on The Blue Room. The point being that it was a reputable, established Evertonian journalist with good access who said it in an unsensational matter-of-fact way that made me sit up and take notice at the time.)

For what it's worth, I don't accept the general idea that players can only operate effectively in one specialist position. From all my years of playing and watching the game, a good footballer is a good footballer.

Derek Taylor
192 Posted 30/10/2019 at 09:56:05
Moshiri and Silva have taken us back to where we were under Gordon Lee exactly 40 years ago.

After a bright start, Cannock's Best had us in the doldrums of the League and playing shite. The Moores controlled Board professed faith in their man and gave him another season (1980-81) to get it right. He didn't and crowds dropped to 15k before they acted to improve things.

Nothing much changes, does it?

Martin Nicholls
193 Posted 30/10/2019 at 10:00:52
A few observations on the non-football aspects last night:

(1) Steve F - as others (Brian W?) have said, there most certainly was some (a smattering) of booing on the half-time whistle. Maybe you couldn't hear it in the Park End but it was audible in Gladwys St Upper where I sit.

(2) What was with all those renditions of old songs (including "When the Blues Go Marching In" ffs!) from the motley gathering in the old Boys Pen area? I had visions of Kenwright sitting on Uncle Cyril's crossbar (sounds rude!) conducting the choir!

David Pearl
194 Posted 30/10/2019 at 10:01:14
Tony,

I don't think he has a choice. Walcott is in form, and we've not said that for a... well ever! Holgate deserves to keep his place also. Sidibe should come back in.

I think Silva has two major decisions to make: One is Delph v Davies to partner Gomes. And the other Calvert-Lewin or Richarlison up front. They will either both play or else Richarlison up front allowing Sigurdsson to come back into the team. Nothing else will change of course.

I hope we beat Spurs, we need the points. But, in the long run, it's prolonging the inevitable.

David Pearl
195 Posted 30/10/2019 at 10:05:22
And if he tries to rush Mina back, I'm running on the pitch in protest!
Sam Hoare
196 Posted 30/10/2019 at 10:10:24
Steve F@98,

If Gomes can play as an 8 then I don't think its beyond Iwobi's capabilities.

He is just as good defensively (not a high bar) and is better at both dribbling and passing forward. He already makes more tackles and interceptions than Gomes and is dribbled around far less.

Clearly some of his best work comes in the final third and I'd be keen to keep that aspect but I don't think its impossible that he could play as the most forward-thinking of the midfield 3 in a 4-3-3.

He's certainly a more natural No 10 but if I was Silva I'd be willing to try anything to get some more pace and dynamism into the middle of the park. I wonder if we will see Iwobi, Davies and Gbamin as a central 3 by the end of the season. I feel like that could have a good balance of energy, athleticism, positivity and creativity.

John Boswell
197 Posted 30/10/2019 at 10:14:33
I haven't read any of the comments yet but, having just watched the extended match highlights on the official site, I would like to pick out two moments that led up to the goals.

Alex Iwobi, his close footwork to keep the ball in the second phase following our corner from the right and deliver a dangerous cross into the box, was fabulous. It did not count as an assist but it led to the assist for Holgate to bury in the third phase. Good work all round.

The final act of the night, a Watford attack is stopped the ball is played to the waiting Cenk Tosun who plays a superb ball for Richarlison to run on to. The weight of the pass is perfect as is the angle to cut through the Watford defence and make the outcome a certainty.

There were other moments but those two were outstanding and resulted in goals, so worthy of comment.
COYB

Sam Hoare
198 Posted 30/10/2019 at 10:15:33
On another note, I think we may have to give up hopes of Zouma (like we should have last summer!!). He has been playing much better for a resurgent Chelsea this last month or two and his stats are right up there with the best in the league.

Great shame that Rudiger got injured and Luiz left but I think Zouma is establishing himself now at Chelsea. We need to find another pacy centre-back.

Tony Abrahams
199 Posted 30/10/2019 at 10:18:00
Got to around post 165 and then wondered if anyone saw Moise Kean, play against Sheffield Utd?

He's 19, playing in a foreign land, he's probably played about 30 or 40 games of senior football, and is slowly getting introduced into the most physically demanding league in the world.

I'd love to see him play upfront with Calvert-Lewin, I'd have loved Richarlison to pass it across the goal last night to give the kid an easy chance, but I don't think Everton are treating him badly, and I'm sure once he adapts to England, he will be fine.

He might actually be suited to playing against the better teams, teams that attack and leave a little bit of space in behind. But it's going to be hard for him to get game time upfront at the minute though, because he doesn't look suited to playing as a lone striker, so let's just send the kid out on loan!

Brent Stephens
200 Posted 30/10/2019 at 10:22:48
Tony #199, I think that's a calm and reasonable assessment of Moise Kean. Lots of potential... which may or may not be realised. But I'm not sure we should send him out on loan.
Paul A Smith
201 Posted 30/10/2019 at 10:30:46
I only read the last 20 or so posts and only Stan Schofield has any kind of rational thinking. The fact there is half a debate over Moise Kean just sums us up.

If you just admit the realities in the first place and use the kind of perspective Stan uses, it's a lot easier to see what is coming.

Roman Sidey
202 Posted 30/10/2019 at 10:32:43
What an odd comment, David. I want Everton to beat Spurs because Everton are playing Spurs. I definitely don't think Silva is up to the job, but that doesn't change the fact that I want Everton to win every single match they play.
Steve Ferns
203 Posted 30/10/2019 at 10:38:09
David, I would certainly say that it's Gomes or Delph to partner Davies for the Southampton game. The Tottenham game is a different kettle of fish.

It all depends on how Silva wants to approach this. Do we press high up the pitch and go for the jugular? Do we sit a bit deeper and try to be a bit more compact and look to frustrate Spurs?

If we were firing on all cylinders, then I would advocate the former approach. Spurs are looking vulnerable at the moment and their game has been built on energy and pressing and at the moment that looks to have gone. They played a lot better against Liverpool, and their tactics were no doubt down to their very early goal, but they sat deep at Anfield and invited Liverpool onto them.

I don't watch every minute of every Spurs game, but it seems to me that they are lacking the energy they showed as they smashed us 6-2 at Goodison 12 months ago. If we win, we go above them. But, we are also in a mess right now and trying to go toe to toe with Spurs might be playing into their hands and if you give Harry Kane sight of goal then he scores.

Personally, I absolutely hate Harry Kane. Well the sight of him, not the guy himself. He's scored 9 goals in 9 games against us. 5 of the 9 goals have come in 5 games at Goodison.

So, let's say it's safe to say we should be very worried about him, and going toe to toe against Spurs, and letting Kane have space to attack us could be a recipe for disaster. Remember that goal he scored in the 4-0 smashing of Koeman's Everton? The lad just needs to shoot and the ball finds it way into our net.

So, perhaps we should look to sit deep and play the same tactics we played against Man City. The City game had the midfield trio of Schneiderlin, Delph and Sigurdsson. I think we need Davies in there for his pace and energy. Iwobi deserves to retain the number 10 jersey, and Walcott should start in place of Kean. I would also like to see Sidibe in for Coleman. Danny Rose is suspended and so we can get at Ben Davies and Sidibe would be a better bet than Coleman.

Seamus Coleman is a fantastic servant of the club, but we have to accept that he is no longer the player he was. His pace has gone. He's not a yard slower, he's 2 or 3 yards slower. His confidence is affected. He takes too many touches, he stops the ball completely and just basically stops our attacks dead in their tracks.

A vintage Coleman got on the ball and hit the afterburners or gave and went (ie, laid it off and set off down the touchline for the return ball). Instead, he cuts inside and looks for the pass. He is trying his very best to make something happen. He is trying to be the captain and to be a leader, but he was never the best passer of the ball. So when he gets the ball he should be laying it off quickly to better passers.

Coleman is quite solid defensively, speed issues aside. But that was always the weaker side of his game. Remember, Moyes played him as a right winger as he was so worried about his defensive acumen.

I think we need to face the fact that whilst Coleman is only 31, and so not particularly old, he has just lost too much of what made him special, and with the side struggling so badly, there can be no room for sentimentality. We have a France international desperate to play in his place. Time for him to have an extended run in the side.

Steve Ferns
204 Posted 30/10/2019 at 10:40:48
Sam @196, we don't see him in training, so we cannot really give a definitive answer. I just don't think that he can, based on what I have seen.

Gomes is still far too deep for me. But maybe I base too much on the young Gomes who was always in around the opposition box for Benfica, making things happen and scoring a wonder goal or two.

Steve Ferns
205 Posted 30/10/2019 at 10:43:16
John @197, it was superb play by Tosun. I'm not a fan of the Turk, but you need to give credit where it's due. He came on and did everything asked of him and more.

I'm not going to revise my opinion of him based on one pass, but he's shown that he can be very effective as an impact sub late in a game when the opposition are chasing the game as it is not the first time he has scored or created a game-killing goal in this manner.

Phil Sammon
206 Posted 30/10/2019 at 10:45:09
Steve 205

Yes, we know you’re not one to change you’re mind based on evidence, Steve.

Christy Ring
208 Posted 30/10/2019 at 10:57:44
Peter @175, Thanks mate.

Our first-half performance was very poor. Our midfield is too static, you can give out about Gomes, but he's the one player with vision and can unlock a defence with his passing ability... I don't know why Silva didn't leave Davies beside him.

A few comments here saying Coleman was poor and finished, I totally disagree. Kean was ahead of him in the first half, he's not a winger, he should be playing off Calvert-Lewin, and left Seamus with no outlet, and didn't track back.

Walcott made a huge difference in the 2nd half. One or two comments said he was poor in defence; the Watford attack on his side was non-existent in the 2nd half.

Paul A Smith
209 Posted 30/10/2019 at 11:01:00
Iwobi looks so flat-footed to me, it's scary... and he is a typical Arsenal trainee who looks for the short ball naturally when there are other options.

Don't get me wrong – there are moments of skill and strength – but, my word, he's planted to the floor in possession.

David Pearl
210 Posted 30/10/2019 at 11:01:36
Roman, that's exactly what l said... ? :). I know it's a bit early.

Steve, you said Gomes was too deep. Well, perhaps it was due to him having no midfield partner. Delph was playing in the hole behind Gomes and in keeping with the role (role, hole, goal... back of the net), that Schneiderlin plays.

Steve Ferns
211 Posted 30/10/2019 at 11:05:26
Christy, did you not think he came inside too many times and just put his foot on the ball, stopping it dead, and killing our moves. This happened at least five times. He is not a passer and never has been.

He should have hit a quick and easy pass and kept the ball moving quickly. He was one of the main (but not the only) culprits for slowing us down by taking too many touches and being too ponderous and indecisive in possession.

You are right about the lack of link up with Kean being a factor though. And he was better in the second half with Walcott. But that did not stop the issues I raised in the opening paragraph, because it continued.

He also has an instinct to turn the winger (when in possession) so he can use his pace to blast past them like he always did. However, the pace is not there and so he does not do so, or he hesitates and does not do so.

Sorry, Christy, he is struggling right now; I cannot see him getting any better. He is certainly offering much less going forwards than Sidibe.

I also think his captaincy skills are lacking. He is not vocal enough. He is struggling with his own game too much to take on the mantle of captain and sort the team out. You cannot be a leader if you have your own personal crisis of confidence.

Lee Jamieson
212 Posted 30/10/2019 at 11:10:54
There are some really good teams in this competition and a few that are out of their depth. Just watch us draw Liverpool or Man City and Leicester get someone like Oxford Utd.
David Pearl
214 Posted 30/10/2019 at 11:26:05
Well, fingers crossed for a good draw. Hopefully we really go for it and the players are in the right headspace.

There was no reason for that first-half performance and Kean wasn't the right fit to play in front of Coleman that's for sure. Walcott and Sidibe all the way. It's the left side I'm worried about. Oh and the centre midfield and attack... and goalkeeper.

But apart from that... Come on, Arsenal!

Paul Tran
215 Posted 30/10/2019 at 11:38:35
I didn't see the game, unfortunately. Sounded sluggish, but at least we created chances, hit the woodwork, kept a clean sheet and won. When form & confidence is low, all you can do is scratch out a win and build on it.

If we keep it right on Sunday, I can see us making mistakes and losing, so why not go on the front foot against a vulnerable team?

Regarding Kean, he's a 19-year-old, in a new country, new language, different league. He needs time to settle. He'll get that by time on the pitch in his correct position. I've got a sneaking feeling that Silva didn't and doesn't want him and he'll be gone in January, unless Silva goes first.

Rob Dolby
216 Posted 30/10/2019 at 11:44:43
Watford made no effort to get out of their own half for most of the game, hoping to hit us on the break. We struggle breaking teams down that sit deep with our usual wing-backs the main threat.

Walcott was the difference last night, he looked lively from the off.

If Iwobi is to make the Number 10 spot his own, he has to add goals. My preference is still Sigurdsson in the No 10 role, he offers more. For the Spurs game, I would play Davies instead of Iwobi and have a 5-man midfield.

A win is a win, we have played better and got nothing out of games this season.

Justin Doone
217 Posted 30/10/2019 at 11:50:46
Good win. Really happy for Holgate but strange team selection.

I've no belief or particular concern about winning this cup and so IMO it's worth experimenting with a player or two like Kean, I would have started him left wing.

But starting both Mina and Delph (Silva's key defensive players) was risky given both have very questionable injury records over the last few seasons.

I think the most noticeable difference to the team's tempo and attacking threat was the lack of Davies who gets the ball forward far quicker. People criticise his passing but if, like Schneiderlin, the majority of passes are 5 yards sideways, or 10 yards back, his stats would improve so I'm bloody glad he doesn't and happy Schneiderlin has been dropped. Long may it continue.

Both Delph and Gomes are too similar in that they avoid the risky pass, happy to keep possession and pass it backwards to a porous defence, putting them under needless pressure and stopping our attacks.

No surprise Iwobi and Walcott can link up. They both came from Wenger's Arsenal who played some fantastic flowing forward football. Walcott makes runs knowing Iwobi plays the ball forward. Simple stuff. I'm happy to give credit for Walcott's cross and it was a good bit of play. Too often, his delivery and final ball is dreadful. Over the last 2 games, how often has he found a teammate? 3 or 4 times maybe.

Simply not good enough but Richarlison (who I think is fantastic) is also guilty of this, misplacing an easy 10-yard pass more often than not.

Not the only players, Coleman, Keane, Gomes, Sigurdsson, Delph all give the ball away too often, too cheaply and in dangerous areas... it's so frustrating!

Christy Ring
218 Posted 30/10/2019 at 11:59:23
Steve, a couple of points.

You're probably right about Seamus going forward. He's not a patch on what he was, but his legs are not what they used be. Defensively he's still strong, I agree he shouldn't be Captain, I would prefer a centre back or midfielder.

As for Gomes, he's the only one who looks up and passes the ball 30/40 yards; in my opinion, Delph passes short and sideways.

Christopher Timmins
219 Posted 30/10/2019 at 12:04:14
Let's be grateful for the result and move on to Sunday's game. I just hope Potchettino is not thinking of us when celebrating his 27th wedding anniversary.
Brent Stephens
220 Posted 30/10/2019 at 12:04:33
Paul #215,

I totally agree. If correct, as you say, that Silva never wanted and doesn't want Moise Kean, that would in part explain the limited time he's had on the pitch and the position he's being played. What a waste of potential.

David Pearl
221 Posted 30/10/2019 at 12:05:24
Walcott played the cross for Holgate, knocked the ball down for Gomes and found lwobi, just off the top of my head. He's in the best form he's been in for ages.

Schneiderlin plays the same way Delph did last night. If there is a pass on or a chance to switch play he will take it. I wish people could watch a game without preconceptions of a player. Watch the games back. Our shape is wrong and Silva has one way of going forward.

Gomes is still taking too long to get into things. It's always a few misplaced passes for the first 20 minutes.

Rob Marsh
222 Posted 30/10/2019 at 12:13:23
Mike Gaynes #156,

I know and understand what you're saying when you take the "end justifies the means" attitude were these cup ties are concerned.

The problem for me about that match last night is that the team we had out was our best team or thereabouts. This wasn't a squad game were he gave game time to those without any game time while playing the bottom-of-the league no-hopers. We are struggling to overwhelm these teams and last night was more about late-game fatigue and concentration that won it for us, than our ability to break them down (credit thought to Richarlison for taking his chance so well).

We still look like a disaster waiting to happen and need to be able to put teams like this under pressure and keep them there. If we can't do it to these types of teams, where do we find the confidence to take on the better teams?

Phil Lewis
223 Posted 30/10/2019 at 12:14:40
The first half last night was dire. Pickford had little to do against Watford's weakened selection, but continues to be unconvincing, particularly from set-pieces. Mina was easily our best performer before his injury. Sideways and backward passes orchestrated by the uninspiring Delph, illustrated our total lack of creativity. Tom Davies is a far more positive and energetic partner for Gomes.

Coleman is receiving much criticism of late. Admittedly he is not the force of old. To be fair, he has never really recovered from his horrific leg break. Last night in the first half, I felt his passing options were limited by the players in front of him.

Things improved in the second period with Walcott's introduction. Which begs the simple question, is Moise Kean good enough? The questions posed by Souness on television, regarding Juventus selling him, may sadly carry weight.

I made a point of studying his movement off the ball for considerable periods last night and his positional sense, was woefully lacking, resulting in him being easily marked and impossible to pass to. On one occasion Gomes put a lovely ball through to him, creating a great opportunity, but his first touch was awful, a golden chance for him to signal his arrival squandered.

I don't buy any of this stuff about his age and new environment. If you are good enough, you are old enough. And these players live in the lap of luxury, not like the flea-bitten digs great players of yesteryear had to put up with. I certainly hope the lad makes me eat my words, but I fear we may have bought another Niasse.

Tony Abrahams
224 Posted 30/10/2019 at 12:16:17
I’d disagree with that Brent, and say the kid just needs time to adapt to a very very different culture, although I will accept that the ball is still round!
Christy Ring
225 Posted 30/10/2019 at 12:16:45
Dave, I agree about Delph; he tidies up play but short passes sideways and backwards – never forward.
Tom Bowers
226 Posted 30/10/2019 at 12:26:17
Hate having to play Spurs at this time. Having held Liverpool for so long, they will be on a mission against a woeful Everton.

Can Everton raise their game like they did somewhat against the Hammers? Could be bottom three after this one unless they play well.

Rob Marsh
227 Posted 30/10/2019 at 12:31:34
Tony Abrahams # 224

For the £30m approx we paid for Kean, we paid a similar fee for Lukaku and at a similar age, did we take the attitude with Lukaku you're only a kid make a contribution later on when you feel you're ready?

He's looking to me like an U23 player trying things that worked in the U23s but don't work in the big league, there's also a touch of rabbit in the headlights about him to.

If we paid £8-12m to Barnsley for him I'd be a bit more forgiving, but you have to remember this kid's earning a fair bit more than that kid from Barnsley.

The club made a lot of noise about him when he came and I think they expected more from than he's given.

Matthew Williams
228 Posted 30/10/2019 at 12:39:51
It weren't pretty but we're through and that's all that matters. As for the quarter-final, a trip down to Oxford would be simply... beautiful!

COYB

Danny Broderick
229 Posted 30/10/2019 at 12:48:03
Rob,

We've bought potential with Kean.

Lukaku was ready to go after his spell at West Brom. I don't think Kean has got to grips with English football yet. He may succeed or he may yet fail - he shouldn't be written off just yet as a 19-year-old lad adjusting to a country where he doesn't yet have a great command of the language (again, unlike Lukaku, whose English was perfect when he arrived at Chelsea).

Rob Marsh
230 Posted 30/10/2019 at 12:51:14
Tom #226,

I can't see Man City losing to Southampton, we'll be where we are now and deserve to be come Monday, that's hanging on by our fingernails just above the brown stuff.

Rob Marsh
231 Posted 30/10/2019 at 12:58:09
Danny # 229

I haven't written him off, but based on what we seen of him so far, I think Juve got the better of the deal and if he was such a potential Drogba in the making, why did they sell him?

For what's it's worth, I see talent in him, just not £30m worth.

Maybe a loan spell as Lukaku had might help him come on a bit and find his confidence?

I'll happily eat my words if this kid comes good.

Brent Stephens
232 Posted 30/10/2019 at 13:06:22
Tony #224 "I’d disagree with that Brent, and say the kid just needs time to adapt to a very very different culture, although I will accept that the ball is still round!"

You might be right about the need for Mosie Kean to find his feet in a different footballing culture. But the ball is still round??!!

Tony Abrahams
233 Posted 30/10/2019 at 13:17:47
Can’t disagree with you Rob, but if a player is not ready, he’s not ready, and if this is the case then surely it’s not Silva’s fault, if he isn’t playing him at the minute.

Lukaku, was mainly used as a sub at West Brom though, and had also been at Chelsea, so when he came to Everton, he had at least two years experience of English football under his belt. ( it’s at times like this that I can’t believe they got rid of the old central league?)

Give the kid a bit of time, he’s been at Everton for three months of the season, and I wouldn’t expect anything more than a gradual introduction, and when he’s good enough I’m sure he will get a lot more game time, just like what happened with Lukaku eventually?

Kieran Kinsella
234 Posted 30/10/2019 at 13:35:21
Rob

I'd say the money is immaterial in this market given Newcastle wanted 50 million for Longstaff who is even greener. From what I read in the Italian press, Juve were criticized for selling him as it was perceived as selling their future in order to raise money for instant success. Nobody seemed to view it as Juve offloading someone who wasn't going to make it.

As far as loans go, I wouldn't loan him out right bow because he'd probably find himself in a similar boat adjusting to the English game elsewhere plus it would further dent his confidence. I agree with Tony about working him in gradually, with the caveat we need to play him in a way where he can use his strengths e.g. running with the ball, and as a fox in the box.

I remember 20 years ago fans scratching their heads as to why we signed Materazzi as he floundered. He went on to win the world cup and every other trophy. It's a big adjustment off the field and on it. Most 19 year olds struggle to settle in when they move 100 miles to Uni. Moving to another country, being under a public microscope makes it harder. So I think we need to give him time.

Graeme Beresford
235 Posted 30/10/2019 at 13:36:57
Let's have it right. That's two home games we have won on the trot but quite luckily by scoring a killer goal in injury time.

That match last night was the worst I have seen Everton play in a long long time. Richarlison was awful bar the goal, Coleman did nothing. Holgate got beat in every jump for the ball. I hate picking on certain players but nobody impressed me last night, again apart for Digne who actually looked bothered.

Silva's inability to change anything for the better is becoming a worry. Yes, he took Kean off, who isn't a winger, and actually looked good, Calvert-Lewin yet again fails to convince. From the stands, the whole thing just looked horrible.

I worry that when we start playing the big boys soon we are going to get stuffed. Worryingly Spurs on Monday is going to be a tough one. Nail-biting stuff for us.

Steve Ferns
236 Posted 30/10/2019 at 13:54:13
Graeme, thanks for that. I didn't realise we needed to score against Watford in the last minute. I had thought we won that game 2-0. Same with West Ham, I thought we had won that game 2-0 and played very well. I didn't realise how lucky we were.

Spurs is on Sunday, not Monday. 4:30pm kick-off.

Kieran Kinsella
237 Posted 30/10/2019 at 14:03:11
Spurs is critical. If we win that and get home to Oxford in the cup, Silva won't be "bomb proof" but he at least buys himself 6 weeks. He'd be able to point at Pochetino who's received plaudits for years and say "I am neck and neck with him so who is going to come in and do better with this group?"

If we lose or lose terribly like last year to Spurs and get drawn away to Man City or Liverpool in the cup, then I think Silva will be out. I know Klopp plays the juniors in the cup but remember when Fergie "threw" the cup semi-final versus Everton with his B team and we still needed penalties to beat them.

I imagine if Klopp named a team featuring Mickey Mouse, that somehow we'd conspire to lose at Anfield.

Colin Malone
238 Posted 30/10/2019 at 14:03:59
I knew Watford were going to park the bus. A set-up that Everton have major problems with and, in my opinion, it's because we haven't got enough guile in midfield, so we use the wings and try and get at the back of the bus.

Last night, I saw our forwards making runs, only for the ball to be passed square, then onto the wings. I would like to see Gomes and Sigurdsson pair up in midfield.

Paul Tran
239 Posted 30/10/2019 at 14:05:53
There's nothing lucky about scoring late goals, unless of course, they're deflected/ misshit/poor ref decision, etc.

I see late goals as a positive for any team.

Kieran Kinsella
240 Posted 30/10/2019 at 14:11:15
Paul Tran

Too true. If late goals weren't "a thing" we'd have no concept of "Fergie time" and United would have an empty trophy cabinet.

Dave Abrahams
241 Posted 30/10/2019 at 14:22:13
I went to the game last night expecting Everton to come out and try and put Saturdays game behind them and give us something to shout about.

The crowd were up for it, great response to the flags and everything around the ground, by roaring the team onto the pitch, carried on with the applause for the first ten minutes, then it dawned on them, certainly dawned on me, we were watching pancake football, dead flat, and it stayed like that for the rest of the half.

The second half was a bit better and the two unlikely looking goals, I didn't think they were ever going to come, put a much better face on the night.

All-in-all, I agreed totally with Peter's (168) last two paragraphs, they summed up the night's football and were Everton are at the moment.

Kieran Kinsella
242 Posted 30/10/2019 at 14:25:56
Lenny 169

Interesting prophecy. So next up we should get Man Utd as we beat them in 1995, but that still leaves us short of opponents for the Semi and Final unless we get the MLS All stars and the Kariobangi Sharks as late entrants.

James Marshall
243 Posted 30/10/2019 at 14:26:06
Obviously we were rubbish first half, that's not news. Much better second half and deserved to win 2-0.

On the Kean selection, it seems to me that Silva was trying to shoe-horn him into the side and give everyone a game, if you see what I mean. He wanted to start DCL and Kean and with Bernard out, he went with the 2 of them. One would imagine he'd discussed and worked on this with the players in the lead-up to the game.

Kean is still a child in footballing terms, and you have to remember, at Juve he was playing with some of the best players in European football - at Everton he's playing with Cenk Tosun and Morgan Sidetosiderlin.

Steve Ferns
244 Posted 30/10/2019 at 14:32:44
Dave, I think your Tony had it better when he was talking about how shite the game was but then mentioned about all the chances we had.

Mention should be given to the fact that Watford came to spoil. If a team wants to stop you playing, then it can be quite easy to do that. The difference in the second half was Walcott came on and started running at people. I expected Kean to do just that but he seemed to just try to knock it past his man to run on to rather than try to actually take him on. Gomes's passing was awful in the first half and that did not help matters.

Sunday is a big game, hopefully it can be 3 points and jumpstart the season into life.

Mike Gaynes
245 Posted 30/10/2019 at 14:40:40
John Boswell #197, great post. Overdue credit to Iwobi and Tosun for their setup work.

Pete #168, you are blessed, or burdened, with memories of an elegant Everton that I don't have. I became an Everton fan in the mid-1980s but rarely actually saw them play. The FA-cup-winning '95 side and the Moyes sides a decade later won games on grit, not artistry. Like any other fan, I enjoy and appreciate attractive football -- but I enjoy winning more, and I will sacrifice the former for the latter without a second thought. Unfortunately, under the current manager I think there is little of either. So I celebrate results like yesterday unreservedly, without regard to the quality of the performance. Sorta like sex at 63, just getting it done is cause for celebration.

Regarding Moise Kean, I would simply remind everyone that at this early point in their careers Eden Hazard, Roberto Firmino, Leroy Sane and -- as Tony #233 points out -- Romelu Lukaku had made zero impact as well (Firmino was considered a bust!), and all were considerably older than Kean. I see no lack of confidence in him and I certainly wouldn't loan him out -- just give him minutes and watch him grow.

Sean Patton
246 Posted 30/10/2019 at 14:42:41
God almighty... imagine the responses if we had lost – it doesn't bear thinking about.

It's a cup tie – the result is all that matters.

Graeme Beresford
247 Posted 30/10/2019 at 14:44:31
Steve, 236.

Now now, don’t argue in the internet it doesn’t make you cool.

The reality is we were poor, again.

Steve Ferns
248 Posted 30/10/2019 at 14:45:33
Agreed, Mike Gaynes. Moise Kean will come good. I am sure of that.

Like yourself, I'm struggling to have seen any "grandmasters". Sure, I saw Sheedy, Sharp, Steven and co, but I didn't really see them as I was only a nipper. So the best I've seen is Kanchelskis, Limpar, Gravesen, Arteta and Lukaku. I wouldn't call any of them "greats", "legends", "iconic", or anything of a superlative nature, and certainly not grandmasters.

Steve Ferns
249 Posted 30/10/2019 at 14:47:55
Graeme, I never said we weren't poor. But we were certainly not lucky, in either game. Watford didn't deserve their 0. And I don't think TW is the place to look cool.
Mark Guglielmo
250 Posted 30/10/2019 at 15:00:33
Steve @203(?) Kane is a monster though admittedly I absolutely love watching him play. I don't believe you mentioned him but Son is equally dangerous and even more versatile. He's equally effective wide left or right, has virtually unmatched pace, superstar-level technical ability, and class clinical finishing. If memory serves he tore us apart in that 2-6 drubbing. Gonna make for a long, hard day for Digne & Sidibe. Keane & Holgate are really going to need to be focused.
Bobby Mallon
251 Posted 30/10/2019 at 15:08:07
Steve Ferns,

I went the game last night (god, it was an awful game) and the only midfielder on the pitch last night who looked anything close to a box-to-box midfielder was Iwobi.

Also, Silva is not a good manager. He will destroy Moise Kean trying to play him as a wide bloody winger. The kid is a central striker where he made his name.

Why is another of our managers trying to be smart and change the lad? It happened with Andy Johnson to accommodate James Beattie. He needs to stop being a stubborn bastard.

James Marshall
252 Posted 30/10/2019 at 15:08:58
2 things - even the most blue tinted Evertonian can't really expect anything other than a thorough tonking off Spurs.

The other thing is that none of us has a clue which Everton will turn up from game to game, or even half to half.

Answers on a postcard re Sunday.

John Pierce
253 Posted 30/10/2019 at 15:09:58
The irony for me is the run of fixtures in December is were we’ll probably pick up points under Silva. Open games against better opponents, he actually has this sort of game in his locker.

The point is he still cannot get a tune out of any variety of team he puts out when a team sits in, low blocks. The absence of dribblers is really the key, only Iwobi consistently looks to beat a man. He has looked our best bet.

These are the games I judge him on because this is were the bulk of our points come from. It gives you a platform to play well against better sides. Sadly I think the board judges him on long term goals not the short term. Without short term management there is no long term, you just get drift and interminable transition.

Mark Guglielmo
254 Posted 30/10/2019 at 15:18:10
Rob M @227 not quite an apple-to-apple if you'd like to compare him to Lukaku. I saw a few others point out that he was 21 (actually a big difference compared to 19!) and had the benefit of 2 full English football campaigns.

Even in Lukaku's first year with EFC he played more than 2,500 minutes in the Prem; by contrast Kean is extrapolating out to about 1,100 minutes in the Prem.

But to me the most telling contrast is that Lukaku played 136 of his 138 career Everton games at striker, nowhere else. Sorry I broke my own promise to not comment re: Kean again. Back to my hole I go.

Bobby Mallon
255 Posted 30/10/2019 at 15:18:42
Steve Ferns,

Yes, there was booing at half-time.

Mike Allison
256 Posted 30/10/2019 at 15:21:59
James, 253, that’s a classic ToffeeWeb ”woe is me“, “we‘re all doomed”-type comment. If you followed football outside the Everton bubble you’d know Tottenham are having a poor season and are completely lacking in confidence. Instead you just assume we’re the only team with problems.

Also, if you had any memory or ‘eye’ for anything but the negative you’d remember that home games against the ’big six’ are where Silva’s Everton have actually managed to look the part.

By all means we should point out problems with the team or suggestions for improvements, but can’t we skip the pointless doom-mongering?

Christy Ring
257 Posted 30/10/2019 at 15:22:28
Mina will probably be missing on Sunday a huge loss, don't know the extent of the injury but he was holding his knee.

Kean needs time, he's only 19 but because we paid £30m we expect him to click straight away. If Silva played him upfront beside Calvert-Lewin his proper position, he's not a winger.

I know Watford were very defensive last night – don't forget they made 8 changes – but our performance in the 1st half was shocking, we should have been able to break them down. Gomes with Delph doesn't do anything going forward.

Kieran Kinsella
258 Posted 30/10/2019 at 15:24:44
Someone in "the Know" Gerry, Dave, Tony, Steve, Colin, Richard Dodd AKA Bill Kenwright, please confirm that the rumor started by two in the forum last night about Kenwright tapping up Mark Hughes as interim boss for the rest of the season is a really poor taste wind up?
Kieran Kinsella
259 Posted 30/10/2019 at 15:29:51
Christy

After the game Silva said there was nothing wrong with Mina and that he thought he was injured as he felt pain but in fact is fine. Makes him sound like a bit of a hypochondriac.

Peter Neilson
260 Posted 30/10/2019 at 15:51:03
I think it’s way to early to judge Moise Kean and it does him no favours playing him out wide. Also does nothing for his confidence to hook him at half time. I thought Holgate had a decent game. Mina looked in some discomfort with his right knee, hopefully not serious. I’m in the Main Stand and could hear some booing at half time.
Mark Guglielmo
261 Posted 30/10/2019 at 15:53:12
Kieran @258, I can't believe current odds have him at #2. Gawd.

But re: Kenwright, how much sway could he possibly have? He's but one voice and easily voted down, no? I've been under the impression this will be a Brands choice/Moshiri rubber stamp scenario.

Kieran Kinsella
262 Posted 30/10/2019 at 15:58:33
Mark

I thought the same. I heard Kenwright wanted rid of Walsh long before he went, and that he wanted Unsie as new boss. Since he didn't get his way, I wonder if he has any clout... unless Moshiri has thrown the towel in with his own ideas.

Kieran Kinsella
263 Posted 30/10/2019 at 16:01:23
Mark

Damn sky bet have Mark Hughes now as odds on next boss. I pulled up odds from Oct 9th and he wasn't even listed as a contender. Now I am starting to get worried.

Dave Abrahams
264 Posted 30/10/2019 at 16:08:37
Kieran (258), if the rumour was started on the live forum, then I wouldn't take too much notice. There are plenty of sensible people on the forum, a few winder-uppers, and a few more who have just been let out for the day and their carers pick them up after the game and take them to their nursing homes for their knock-out drops.

Whatever you do, don't have a bet on it.

Brian Wilkinson
265 Posted 30/10/2019 at 16:09:29
Here is my take on the game last night, first half was poor, Watford did their home work, well organised at the back, ensured Everton played the ball out wide, as soon as it did,each Watford player as one covered the defence ensuring any ball played in was dealt with.

They knew we had no one who could take the ball through the middle which ended up in slow build up and time enough for Watford to regroup.

When Walcott came on, the pace of the game picked up, we got the ball forward quicker and this stopped Watford from getting organised, hence the chances we got before the first goal.

To me getting the ball forward quicker created at least 4 good chances, two taken and two striking the woodwork.

Our slow build up play is our Achilles heel, teams know they can deal with crosses coming in so are ensuring they push us out wide.

Until we get an out and out goal scorer and a midfielder that can take it down the middle, take players on, we will keep on struggling.

Watford came to settle for penalties, we got the job done and Holgate for me had a great game.

Mark Guglielmo
266 Posted 30/10/2019 at 16:11:13
Kieran, I really wish I could attach memes or GIFs to effectively summarize my feelings. Picture = 1,000 words and all.

I'm on Team Arteta meself.

I just remembered I had a question to the long-time TWers: has TW ever had a proper forum setup, or has it always been comments on articles?

Kieran Kinsella
267 Posted 30/10/2019 at 16:13:03
Thanks, Dave... I'll step back from the ledge.
Mike Gaynes
268 Posted 30/10/2019 at 16:39:53
Kieran and Dave, I actually did see that Mark Hughes rumor somewhere last week, so those Forum denizens weren't making it up.

Of course, Hughes is one of those who should be in the nursing home taking the "knock out drops"... too many headers I think.

James Marshall
269 Posted 30/10/2019 at 16:40:42
Mike @256,

I was really only highlighting that we have a dreadful record against Spurs. I actually agree with you that we play better against the better sides.

To be fair I'm not usually one of the 'woe is me' brigade as you put it, but thanks for lumping in with them – I've certainly been called worse on here!

Christy Ring
270 Posted 30/10/2019 at 16:42:08
Kieran, it was Mina who wanted to come off. If Silva said he's fine, you're right – he is a hypochondriac.

As for Mark Hughes, that has to be a wind-up – even Kenwright isn't that desperate???

Kieran Kinsella
271 Posted 30/10/2019 at 16:48:46
Mike Gaines! No way!

Christy

Unless after flack about Moyes never getting Preston promoted before he came here, Blue Bill is thinking "Wait a minute, Mark Hughes has a great record for moving teams between divisions, QPR, Stoke, almost Soton. He'd be perfect."

Jason Wilkinson
272 Posted 30/10/2019 at 16:50:26
TW'ers,
A question for all.
Formation; 4-3-3 (Silva's choice)
4-4-2 (two strikers, two wingers)
5-3-2 (three central, two wing backs)
4-1-4-1 (the Moyes way)
3-5-2 (pack the middle of the park)

Should we play our best 11 to a format that suits their talent Or pick a formation and shoehorn the players available.

Before you start I know most of you think Silva plays 4-2-3-1. My take is he plays 4-3-3 in his mind and the players play 2-7-1.

My preference for those of you that want to know. 4 at the back. 2 up front and adapt the midfield to outwit the opponent. E.g. more attacking against the weaker teams. More combative against teams who are more possession based.

I don't believe in one way fits all against every opponent.

Rob Halligan
273 Posted 30/10/2019 at 16:58:07
Mark Hughes?

MARK FUCKING HUGHES??

Hahahahahahah Hahahahahahah Hahahahahahah Hahahahahahah.

Fuck off will yer!!

Brian Wilkinson
274 Posted 30/10/2019 at 17:01:11
That's where we struggle Jason, we played two strikers last night, Kean spent most of his time out wide on the right, Calvert-Lewin slow in getting into a decent position in the box.

We have no-one who can take it through the middle, so it always ends up going out wide, which is fine if we have a centre-forward who can attack the ball in the box, but we don't.

Christy Ring
275 Posted 30/10/2019 at 17:02:48
Guys sitting here having a few pints in a pub here in Liverpool, a couple of Redshite fans in all their gear sitting beside me. Here 20 mins and still haven't bought a drink!!!!
Rob Halligan
276 Posted 30/10/2019 at 17:05:10
Are they English or Norwegians, Christy?
Dave Ganley
277 Posted 30/10/2019 at 17:07:40
Careful, Christy – don't get too close; you don't want to get infected with gobshiteness. 😁
Christy Ring
278 Posted 30/10/2019 at 17:13:00
Rob, one of each... 🤡 😀
Mark Guglielmo
279 Posted 30/10/2019 at 17:13:55
Jason @272, you're definitely correct. No great team sticks to one formation only.

I'd prefer to have 4-3-3 be our "baseline" and adjust as necessary. The one certainty IMO is to have at minimum 2 forwards who are tasked with doing nothing else than creating havoc in the area, and getting into space to receive the ball & put it on goal.

Brian @274, we have a centre-forward who can do that, he's just not being played there.

Dave Abrahams
280 Posted 30/10/2019 at 17:15:12
Christy give them another five minutes and the English red will ‘Put the bite on you'!!
Jason Wilkinson
281 Posted 30/10/2019 at 17:24:48
Would Tosun and Kean work up front? Calvert-Lewin as sub?

I think Calvert-Lewin does two things well for Silva. He runs the hard yards (away games) and he can have an impact as sub late on in games.

Tosun needs a strike partner and Kean needs the play to be quicker for him to find space in behind.

On another note: MARK HUGHES!!!!
No, no and no.

Paul A Smith
282 Posted 30/10/2019 at 17:27:37
I can't believe some people think Kean should be starting games. It's insanity.

Putting this run of form on his shoulders has to be the most stupid shout from an Evertonian I have ever heard.

Calvert-Lewin struggles when he starts games. Kean is off at the moment and let's see him learn the physical and mental side of playing against international defenders most weeks.

However well he did at Juve, they sold him. The kid needs a lot of time and if that wasn't obvious there is serious need for a reality check.

David Pearl
283 Posted 30/10/2019 at 17:31:53
It's up in the air who is our best striker or in fact if we should play two. Richarlison and Walcott are obvious choices. Iwobi too. There is another place up for grabs. Calvert-Lewin, Tosun and Sigurdsson are our choices unless we switch to 4-3-3, and we all know the likelihood of that.

John McFarlane Snr
284 Posted 30/10/2019 at 17:49:59
Hi all, I haven't read all the post's, my 'Young Lady' dragged me down town for a spell of early Christmas shopping, ['kicking and screaming'] but I believe that I've got the gist of things:

[1] Regarding performance, how would you react if the headline was, "Scintillating Everton lose 2-0 to struggling Watford in the Carabao Cup?

[2] How would you react if Yerri Mina had been rested and Michael Keane had conceded an own goal? Would you be castigating the manager over his team selection?

[3] How would you react if Marco Silva posted, "Some clowns have the nerve to question my team selections, formations and tactics?" As they say."Hindsight is a wonderful thing".

Mike Gaynes
285 Posted 30/10/2019 at 18:05:41
David #283, he should already be out of his job, given that he was in court yesterday pleading guilty and the incident occurred five months ago. If the club hasn't already pulled the trigger, I wonder why.
Jay Harris
286 Posted 30/10/2019 at 18:06:24
David
Dont worry Bill and Denise will sort Franny out, pay his fine off and give him a raise.
John Boon
287 Posted 30/10/2019 at 18:10:02
I do not post nearly as much as I may have in the past, although it was never too often. I would never have been able to convince myself that what I had to say was always interesting enough to ever deserve a response. Today is different because I was able to read all the posts

I found what I did quite refreshing and certainly opened my eyes to realize that there are many loyal Blues who have many very different perspectives on how a game is perceived. There were also many solid useful comments on what is right or wrong with the club, the players, the management, tactics, strategies etc etc.

I felt that responses to posts were enlightening, sometimes erratic but always from the heart. We all see things from a different perspective. Whatever any supporter states is always worth considering. It may incur your disagreement,but we always need to remember that they only made their statement or analysis because they really believe what they had to say was valid.

Nobody should be beyond getting a critical response.It does mean that at least one person considered your opinion worthy of debate,and between fellow Evertonians we should expect honest criticism.I don't think personal insults and negative suggestions, such as getting a brain transplant or consider having your eyes examined, should ever be acceptable unless directed toward the latest bad Ref or the RS. Insults to the RS don't have any limits.

I am of the older generation, but young or old should not make too much difference. I have been around long enough to have seen us win trophies and for that I am lucky. While the basic game has not really changed that much,tactics,strategies and fitness have and young supporters probably have much fresher ideas than I do. I last played in the old CYMS league. The high point of my game was to be able to get off at half time for a smoke. Roy Vernon set that example in the early 60's.

Whatever you think and from wherever you are your point is always valid. It doesn't matter whether you are boy or girl, young or old, you must be an Evertonian to post on TW. If,for some reason, you are not of "Blue" persuasion then just vanish into the darkness.

Jay Harris
288 Posted 30/10/2019 at 18:15:10
Sir John,
You are right to point out the negativity after a decent win but there was a lot to criticise.

Team selection and tactics in the first half were confusing, to say the least.

I thought when he put Kean, Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison out, we were going gung-ho with a 4-3-3 but we played an out-of-sorts 4-2-3-1 in a first half that effectively took Richarlison and Kean out of the game. One shot on goal sums that up and for me that is not the Everton I have grown up with.

Granted, he sorted it out for the second half... but again, bear in mind, we were largely playing Watford reserves whose remit appeared to be "Don't win the game but try and hold out for penalties."

Mark Guglielmo
289 Posted 30/10/2019 at 18:31:55
John B @288, great post and I'm sorry for being irritating and/or rude before.
Paul Birmingham
290 Posted 30/10/2019 at 18:40:24
A wins, a win, tomorrow morning is the quarter final draw.
Let’s pray for a home draw v Oxford or Colchester, or at least a home draw.

But as I’ve said before we have a collection of players and I don’t see the spirit, the gelling, fight and consistency that creates a team.

Spurs will take heart, but at this time they have their own challenges, but so do Everton.

Derek Taylor
291 Posted 30/10/2019 at 18:44:39
John B, I've often thought it would good for all our comments on ToffeeWeb to be prefaced with 'In My Opinion' ( IMO ). That would go some way towards reducing the venom contained in too many postings.
After all we are all Evertonians…………….

Aren't we ?

Bobby Mallon
292 Posted 30/10/2019 at 18:47:54
I'm with Paul Birmingham, our team needs a couple of true hard-arsed captains, we are a team of shithouses. There was a tackle in the first half I think on Richy that was (where I was in upper Gwladys) a shit tackle. Not one player had a go at the Watford player, just milled around.
John McFarlane Snr
293 Posted 30/10/2019 at 18:51:59
Hi Jay [280],

I too was puzzled when Kean was operating at outside right. I expected him and Calvert-Lewin to form a double-pronged strike partnership. I wasn't referring to last night's game in particular, I was referring to the general attitude of some ToffeeWeb posters, whether Everton win lose or draw.

[1] Maybe I'm 'old school' in thinking that the one game you can't afford to lose is a Cup tie. League points can be enhanced, Cup defeats are terminal.

[2] I truly believe that, if as I described in my hypothetical incident of a Michael Keane own goal, the outcry, in my opinion, would have been "Why wasn't Yerry Mina selected?"

[3] Again, I may be old-school, but I consider describing Marco Silva as "a f**king clown" and the players as "f**king shit" is totally unnecessary.

Derek Taylor
294 Posted 30/10/2019 at 18:52:09
IMO, Bobby, calling our players a team of shithouses says more about your command of the English language than it does about the individuals to which you refer !
Mike Powell
295 Posted 30/10/2019 at 18:59:28
It's a win were in the next round,but another poor performance. If we draw one off the big teams next round we are out, no confidence in this team. Would any of us back this team to beat city Liecester Chelsea or the red shite. Would love us to win this cup, but just can't see it, not with Silva in charge
John Boon
296 Posted 30/10/2019 at 19:02:02
Mark (290) Completely accepted. I really do understand where you get your undoubted loyalty which can result in fanaticism which in turn can result in sometimes saying something which we may regret, I know that because I have been there. I do enjoy banter and in my case this has resulted in not being able to see the other side. Just that if Everton don't win something before we move to the new ground I am unlikely to see it. However I do have two sons JohnEverton and Andrew Goodison to carry on my affinity for all things Blue.
Mike Allison
297 Posted 30/10/2019 at 19:08:37
James @269,

You’ve let the negativity of ToffeeWeb posters get to you then. Get back to being a ‘happy clapper’ ASAP. 😀

Bill Gienapp
298 Posted 30/10/2019 at 19:16:38
Hughes would be an even more pathetic appointment than Moyes, IMO, and that's saying something. Pundits really need to get past the idea that these dinosaurs somehow represent a "safe pair of hands." They don't.

Stoke got relegated because they stuck with Hughes for far too long. Then he "saved" Southampton because they were marginally less terrible than the three teams that went down, but they couldn't sack him fast enough after a predictably wretched start the following season.

Hughes. Lord have mercy.

Derek Taylor
299 Posted 30/10/2019 at 19:27:12
Oddschecker makes no mention of Hughes, showing only that Silva is on offer at 2/1 to be next Manager sacked. Even Moshiri wouldn't fall for Kenwright wanting to appoint him or Moyes.

Or would he ?

Mark Guglielmo
300 Posted 30/10/2019 at 19:37:56
Thanks John @297, glad to have met you :-)

Derek, I saw Hughes was as high as 5:1! Not being a bettor, is this a reputable site? Link

Simon Smith
301 Posted 30/10/2019 at 19:38:51
Maybe the rumours regarding Hughes were for the ladies team as we carry the same name now...
Steve Ferns
302 Posted 30/10/2019 at 19:38:55
John Boon, great post. Some food for thought.
Sam Hoare
303 Posted 30/10/2019 at 19:46:13
Don't trust betting on managers. Skybet in particular often manipulate the markets, using their media outlet to help place rumours, in order to stimulate betting.

I would be flabbergasted if Brands swapped Silva for Hughes.

I'm also surprised at the amount of negatitivity on here after a win. The performance may not have been great but I'll take an Everton win where I can this season.

As awful as it has been this season we are in the quarter-finals of a cup and only 3 points off 7th.

I'm hoping that we actually find it easier against some of the 'better' teams as we seem to be at our best when teams come at us and there is space to play in behind them. Teams that sit back, like Watford last night, seem to cause total meltdown in our ranks!

Bobby Mallon
304 Posted 30/10/2019 at 19:52:11
Get over yourself, Derek. I can write/ speak the English language as good as the rest but, you know what, for that post, I didn't.
Derek Taylor
305 Posted 30/10/2019 at 19:54:45
Yes, Sam, we have much to be thankful for. After all, Everton has no given right to be top half, do they?

Us species should know our place!

Sam Hoare
306 Posted 30/10/2019 at 20:01:21
Derek, not sure what species we are? But you are correct that we have no right to be top half.
Kevin Latham
307 Posted 30/10/2019 at 20:03:15
It shows how low Our Great Club has sunk in the modern game that we should even be linked with Mark Hughes. On TalkSPORT last week Alan Brazil reckoned (yes, he turned in that day) that Moyes should come back. Why does nobody suggest that Hughes should go to Man Utd to ‘steady the ship?' Couldn't Allardyce ‘do a job there?'

Sunderland haven't asked Moyes back and they are worse than when he was there and told them they were relegation fodder. But Everton, well we should be happy with these guys.

In a famous (to Evertonians anyway) interview in the '60s Sir John Moores wasn't happy with 5th place (please correct me if I'm out on the place) and said ‘Something should be done - and something WILL be done.' Wasn't it just!

This club had great standing in those days, well earned over the years. It's so hard to accept what we are today, but it's a tribute to fellow Blues who show up in numbers week in and week out, especially those who give such great away support.

Our club may no longer be what it was but our support in these times is absolutely incredible and that is something Evertonians can rightly be proud of. Wouldn't it be great if the club showed the ambition of the fans? Ah well...

Dave Abrahams
308 Posted 30/10/2019 at 20:16:05
It doesn't look like Liverpool are interested in the League Cup, playing a depleted team including a 16-year-old, losing 3-1 at the moment.
Ray Roche
309 Posted 30/10/2019 at 20:18:21
Yet another dodgy penalty for Liverpool...
John Raftery
310 Posted 30/10/2019 at 20:28:24
When the Carabao quarter final is played, Liverpool will be playing in the FIFA tournament in Qatar. So they were always likely to dip out at this stage.
Derek Knox
311 Posted 30/10/2019 at 20:29:22
Does anyone know when the draw for the next round will be made? If it has been mentioned already, apologies, but I couldn't see it anywhere above!

Al least another three Premier League sides will go tonight, so we should really be taking this seriously. I know we the fans do, but I mean the Everton We!

Dermot Byrne
312 Posted 30/10/2019 at 20:33:04
Tomorrow morning, mate. Not sure of exact time but early... before 9:30.
Paul Tran
313 Posted 30/10/2019 at 20:33:41
8:45 on Radio 2 tomorrow morning.
John Raftery
314 Posted 30/10/2019 at 20:33:41
Hi Derek (312),

At 8:45 a.m. tomorrow on Radio Two's Zoe Ball Show.

Paul Jeronovich
315 Posted 30/10/2019 at 20:36:23
Davey Moyes, Davey Moyes, Davey, Davey Moyes. He’s got red hair but we don’t care - Davey, Davey Moyes.
Mark Guglielmo
316 Posted 30/10/2019 at 20:42:45
I hate talking about our next manager while we have one, which is why I held out so so long, but I'd like to know if any of you rate Arteta highly enough to take a gamble on him?

Pros:
-former player will surely galvanize the supporters
-has been the right-hand man & understudy to the best manager in the world
-would almost certainly play a similar style to City or at least one that complements the direction our roster is heading

Cons:
-has never managed at any level
-can't think of too many asst. coaches that successfully became the top dogs

I may, or may not have asked this already, sorry if I did. My memory isn't all that good anymore lol

Pat Kelly
317 Posted 30/10/2019 at 20:46:15
I hear Sparky will be in charge for the Spurs game.
Peter Mills
318 Posted 30/10/2019 at 20:51:52
Mike #245, as if things were not difficult enough, you introduce an image that will take some time to disappear.
Ray Roche
319 Posted 30/10/2019 at 20:53:07
Don't you just hate that shower. And the Arsenal kittens. 🤦🏻‍♂️
John Raftery
320 Posted 30/10/2019 at 20:54:16
Mark (317),

Ultimately it is the quality of the players which determines the style a manager can successfully adopt. With our current squad, Arteta would not be able turn us into another version of Man City.

Parachuting a coach with no previous management experience into the club in the middle of the season is a recipe for failure. A few defeats would soon see the fans calling for his head. If we were to go down that road the time to do it would be in the summer when new blood can be more easily recruited.

Peter Neilson
321 Posted 30/10/2019 at 20:55:04
Guardiola is a great manager, with and without Arteta; also, he's a great cheque book manager. We brought in Steve Walsh linked with success, it doesn't work. Get the top man or don't bother.
Ray Roche
322 Posted 30/10/2019 at 20:55:57
Pat @318,

Come on, Pat, where did you hear that!

Mark Guglielmo
323 Posted 30/10/2019 at 20:57:07
Good points John & Peter. What if we also signed De Bruyne, Sterling & Aguero?

I kid, I kid.

Do either of you have a top choice? Have you looked into Marcelino or maybe even Simeone at all?

Kieran Kinsella
324 Posted 30/10/2019 at 20:59:49
Brilliant news, Pat.

A proven loser, unpopular with fans. Sounds perfect.

Pat Kelly
325 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:02:40
Ray, Kenwright let it slip apparently. Said he had a meeting with him and it's a done deal. But it'll only be to end of season. I can't name names of course. Because it's all bollocks I'd say.
Joe McMahon
326 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:03:08
Why Pat and How? My God we really have sunk to the bottom. Fear not, guys, shiny stadium on the way!
Tony Hill
327 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:06:10
Absolute bollocks, I agree Pat. Sounds like a Kopite source.
Ray Roche
328 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:10:58
I cannot stand Hughes, especially after his attitude over the Lescott transfer and his comments.
Peter Neilson
329 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:12:48
Hi Mark (325),

Simeone is the highest paid in Europe, over £20m a season with Champions League footy laid on, he's not coming here.

I was told today that Alan Pardew and Iain Dowie were seen in Starbucks in discussion with Moshiri. Start the rumour!!

Kieran Kinsella
330 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:13:10
While we're at it, can we not bring Pistone in on a 2-year deal? I hear he is available. Hughesy will need someone to weaken our left side.
Pat Kelly
331 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:14:32
Of course it may be all bollocks but something else mentioned makes me wonder. Kenwright reportedly offered the £1m he was to give Bury as a bonus if Sparky keeps us up.
David Pearl
332 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:15:28
Actually, l have one with substance. A guy l know who sells Moshiri casks for his homebrew said that he had a meeting with Phil Thompson and Charlie Nicholas. I think it's bollox personally.
Joe McMahon
333 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:15:47
Maybe we are destined for a blue triple of Moyes, Unsworth and Ferguson.

That would seriously warn Europe's elite that Everton are back!

Mark Guglielmo
334 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:18:32
Dare to dream, Peter (330), dare to dream (about Simeone). I am admittedly quite ignorant re: Pardew & Dowie but a quick glance at those resumes (CVs, whatever) are not making me book tickets to the Campions League Finals in 2021 haha.

Meanwhile, anyone see Big Sam's comments the other day on talkSPORT?

When asked: "Who do you get if Silva goes!?”

“When I got the job I thought I'd keep it for a long period of time. If you don't get stability it will be very difficult to bring success to Everton no matter how much you spend.”

Rather surprised at that if I'm honest.

Pat Kelly
335 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:21:46
David, I'm afraid you have that wrong. I know for a fact Moshiri doesn't drink alcohol.
David Pearl
336 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:22:15
Joking apart, Origi is improving all the time. Gobshites.
Joe McMahon
337 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:22:24
Mark, I actually would rather we had kept Sam over getting Silva. I'm not saying I wanted him long-term, but we wouldn't be near the bottom 3 now.
Ray Roche
338 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:24:41
Don't you just hate them?
Pat Kelly
339 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:26:37
Interesting, this time next year we could be saying we'd be better off if we'd kept Silva. Now that is bollocks.
David Pearl
340 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:28:36
Joe. I've said that but he was hated from the start. He had us 8th with Cuco Martina and Ashley Williams.
David Pearl
341 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:37:34
Pat, how bad would we have to be next season to be saying that?
Joe McMahon
342 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:41:00
Too many goal machine clubs left in the Carabao Cup for a pathetic set-up like Everton to win it, methinks. The strength of Liverpool's squad puts us to shame.
Pat Kelly
343 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:42:59
David, we ain't half bad yet. But we're getting there.
Tom Bowers
344 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:44:43
The Gunners manager will be sacked pretty soon after Silva.

The Anfield game was a joke and Arsenal's defence has been a joke for a long time, even before today's weakened team selections.

Everton's is pretty much the same, sad to say.

Paul Birmingham
345 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:46:07
Hopefully avoid the RS, hopefully they get City, and let’s pray we get Oxford, Colchester or United, as the others will take us apart, bar a miracle.

I don’t see the fight, the desire to fight, even in this dire slump, from this team.

It’s scary, considering the fixtures coming up.
Hope eternal.

John Hughes
346 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:51:39
Pat Kelly. He mightn’t have done before he bought Everton!
Jamie Crowley
347 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:52:05
With our luck, it'll be Liverpool or Man City away. 🤮
Pat Kelly
348 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:55:33
I hadn't thought of that John :)
David Pearl
349 Posted 30/10/2019 at 21:57:47
I could've sworn l just saw Lampard tell his keeper not to bother going up for the final corner and chance of the game. Full crowd there and they don't have to care about them.

We have a chance against any team left. With the exception of Leicester, the rest of them are playing weakened teams.

Kieran Kinsella
350 Posted 30/10/2019 at 22:05:49
Interesting looking at the League Cup rules as the quarter-finals clash with FIFA Club World Cup which Liverpool are in.

Carabao Cup rules 2019-20 section 3.41 Scheduling Conflicts.

"In the event of a scheduling conflict involving a knockout game and a FIFA sanctioned tournament, the team involved must field the best available squad comprised of Under-23 players. If the team in question is one of two Premier League clubs based in the same North-Western coastal city, their opponent will be expelled from the competition unless they have previously won at least ten league titles and or participated in the UEFA club competitions during the 1985-86 season. The affected team will also be deducted 25 league points and will have to replace their current manager with Mark Hughes."

Andy Crooks
351 Posted 30/10/2019 at 22:10:00
We could do a lot worse than Mark Hughes. Me for example, or my wife, possibly my granddaughter.
Paul Tran
352 Posted 30/10/2019 at 22:11:43
The nostalgic in me wants Oxford away, Aston Villa in the semis, and them in the final – with a different result! Oh, the great days of 1984!
Nigel Munford
353 Posted 30/10/2019 at 22:16:05
Paul, the realistic me says we get them in the next round!!
Lester Yip
354 Posted 30/10/2019 at 22:26:12
I just think we hit a bad patch at the moment. Think about the home game against West Ham, hit the post and woodwork, missed 1 v 1 chances which would have scored by these players blind-folded.

Think about last few games last season when we took on the big boys. Win or lose, at least we attacked them with a plan to win vs a plan to not lose more than 2 goals and think mission accomplished.

Also, think of the players Silva can attract like Richarlison and Bernard. Effective or not, at least it's good to watch.

Not Big Sam please...

John Raftery
355 Posted 30/10/2019 at 22:43:10
I would prefer to play the Liverpool youth team in the quarter-final rather than their first team in the final.
Ken Kneale
356 Posted 30/10/2019 at 22:59:41
Andy - somewhat harsh on your granddaughter don't you think?
Stan Schofield
357 Posted 30/10/2019 at 23:00:57
I'd be happy to play any team. If we play badly, we could lose regardless of who we play. If we play well, we could beat anyone. It's down to how we play. Subject of course to the usual bad officiating.
Stan Schofield
358 Posted 30/10/2019 at 23:12:51
Lester @355: Good post, more realistic than the depressing pessimism on here.
Derek Knox
359 Posted 31/10/2019 at 00:28:21
Thanks to Dermot, John and Paul T, bit disappointed that George and Ringo didn't post :-) Okay we will have to take (Obviously) who ever we get, seriously, even if it is one of those (hate to use the expression – 'lesser teams').

The so-called lesser teams wouldn't have got this far, if they were useless – a bit like our manager, sorry couldn't resist!

Mark Guglielmo
360 Posted 31/10/2019 at 00:42:07
Can't wait til the draw so we can prepare Kean to play centre-half... 😄

I'll see myself out.

Derek Knox
361 Posted 31/10/2019 at 00:44:23
John @ 356, very good point there. I'm surprised in some ways that Lampard got the Chelsea job, having had no previous Prem experience (as a Manager) but a wealth as a player.

While I appreciate that Chelsea (currently) have a Transfer Ban, although they have a massive squad of talented players, so not exactly on the bare bones, as it were, he is not averse to blooding youngsters, who I must add have never let him down.

Why can't this clown we have in charge, at least 'risk' one or two, of our talented youngsters? They couldn't perform any worse than some of the so-called senior players.

Stan Schofield
363 Posted 31/10/2019 at 09:28:51
Derek@361: It is always a major mistake to risk youngsters by putting them in a dysfunctional side and expecting them to improve that side. Youngsters are always best blooded in well-functioning sides. That way, they gain valuable and rapid experience from well-performing older players around them, they enjoy the experience, and their confidence is boosted. Before youngsters are tried, we need to get our act in order, not the other way around!!!
Mark Boullé
364 Posted 31/10/2019 at 09:38:55
Thank goodness it's a home tie so we might have half a chance...
Kim Vivian
365 Posted 31/10/2019 at 10:07:14
Probably the least 'interesting' tie from a neutral's point of view. So it looks like Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool and winner of our tie.

Wouldn't it be brilliant to beat Liverpool in a double header in the semi? "Nurse..."

Kim Vivian
368 Posted 31/10/2019 at 10:49:35
Tony,

Where Leicester finished last season is of little consequence. This season, our respective form is poles apart and – unless we pull our socks up, or Leicester do not take it seriously – we will be toast.

Mark Guglielmo
369 Posted 31/10/2019 at 12:03:07
Kim above, between now and this match, Leicester City have:

away Palace
vs Arsenal
away Brighton
vs Everton
vs Watford
away Villa
vs Norwich
~Carabao QF~
away City

By contrast, we have:

vs Spurs
away Southampton
vs Norwich
away Leicester
away Liverpool
vs Chelsea
away Man Utd
~Carabao QF~
vs Arsenal

I mean...come on! 🤬

Ray Roche
370 Posted 31/10/2019 at 12:35:09
Tony @366,

They may have finished below us last season but they're a different prospect now with Rogers as opposed to Puel.

Kim Vivian
371 Posted 31/10/2019 at 13:03:05
Mark, I know. I've taken my meds now and have put a more reasoned post on the other thread. And it doesn't get much better with both Arsenal and Man City to come by January 1st.
Mark Guglielmo
372 Posted 31/10/2019 at 13:09:02
Oh believe me Kim, I was in agreement with you and just wanted to point out that the scheduling gods aren't exactly making it difficult for Leicester City to lose form.
Stan Schofield
373 Posted 31/10/2019 at 13:53:04
Mark, often a team can lose form whilst playing ordinary opposition, since complacency can set in and the edge can be lost. In contrast, playing good opposition can focus the mind, keep the edge, and produce better results. In other words, things can go in any direction, and there's no way we can know. There's no point in pessimism, and there's no point in optimism. Only reality matters, including the reality that form tends to change, and when it does it changes rapidly.

Our main issue for several years has been appalling away results. That is a clear pattern that hasn't changed. The only way it can change is the right mental approach to away games.

The Leicester game in the Carabao Cup is at home, so this issue doesn't really exist. Our home form has generally been very good over the last few years. So good that if our away form were similar we'd finish regularly in the top-4.

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