Premier League — Week 3

Brighton! What a pen! Hahaha!!!

Chelsea are like a Chip Shop Cod at the moment getting battered!

Chelsea 3-0 down at WBA! Knock me over with a wet lettuce!

DK, is that an original Knox or did you borrow that quip?

"Chip shop cod." I like it. Too bad I can't use it here. Nobody knows what a chip shop is.

Chelsea have done well to come back and square the score, they have an expensive and young team trying to gel together, it's not working at the moment, close to half time Lampard looked close to tears, I didn't see the end of the game, I bet his kipper looked a lot happier than before and rightly so.

It's your duty to educate your fellow citizens, Mike.

D'you not have Harry Ramsden's World Famous Fish & Chips over there Mike? :-o

Schalke sacked Warner. That guy is like Silva in that he can't seem to arrest I dip in form. Oh well... at least he gave Kenny some experience.

Dennis, no, unfortunately we have no good chip shop chains here. But I live on the coast, and many small towns have local fish and chips joints that are excellent. I have one about 45 minutes away called The Crazy Norwegian.

Mike, I would swerve the chains on principle and stick with the local guy.
I'm loving this whole new EFC look though.

Oh dear... here we go!

Penalty. Exactly like ours. Consistent I suppose.

Mourinho about to go off like Vesuvius.

How sad. Never mind. It really is a farce though.

Kane red card after the final whistle?

Looked that way, John.

They have got to change this ridiculous rule. Hand-to-ball should be restored as the standard.

It's totally sanitized Brent, reduced to a flow chart to ensure a consistent application. It's staying and teams will need to adapt I'm afraid.

Any handball outside the silhouette, with intent removed, will be penalized.

Ironically, Calvert-Lewin stayed inside the silhouette but imo clearly used his arm to help his body trap the ball in yesterday's game.

John, nothing like ours mate. Ours was a bad decision, but it was going to put Richarlison in on goal, even though he was offside, but this is an absolute off the scale disgrace in my humble opinion.

It's gonna get the game done away with, but some people are actually calling it progress? Maybe we are getting the game we want, although it's possible decisions like this, might actually turn plenty of people away from the beautiful game.

Will - I've changed my mind! It will have to be fixed immediately.

Every close game is now being decided by it.

Players like Benteke, Carroll, even Crouch and Ferguson would be assets under this system. Lump it long and hope it hits an arm.

What a cock up!

Explain this rule to me? If ball to hand is handball, then why weren't there three pens yesterday? I understood any handball was a pen now but it seems like 80 percent are but 20 percent inexplicably aren't. That oddity makes it even worse for in terms on confusion.

I doubt they'll go back to the old way mid-season though because teams who've suffered from this will say it's unfair.

So defenders are going to have to run with their hands behind their back or hands in newly stitched pockets. This is ridiculous.

The flip is when it hit an arm outside the silhouette you can argue you are changing the path of the ball, disadvantaging the team in possession. I can see the technical aspect of this but it's not an objective rule is it? Just remove it from VAR.

The rule is applied differently across the pitch too which is madness.

But it does deprive Spurs, I'm all about that!

I'd love to see an unwritten rule, but I'm not going to say what it is because everyone will just laugh at me, simply because of the way football has become.

Also as Roy pointed out players will try to win pens by kicking it at players hands. I used to do that as a kid when out of options and it worked here and it there even in ball to hand days. I was a pioneer I guess of ruining the game.

Ernie, it's paid off for Andy Carroll. Penalty for Newcastle in the last minute of added time after he headed a ball against Diers arm who was about ten millimetres away. Absolutely ridiculous decision. Callum Wilson slotted the penalty and left Jose storming down the tunnel. Game ended 1-1.

No you wasn't Kieran, because you never gave yourself the decision mate, if that makes any sense you little cheat!

Just watched another VAR decision giving a penalty against Spurs in the last minute, they should have scored more than one goal and it wouldn't have mattered.

Media are apoplectic and I am waiting to hear Mourino's comments...

Watching Hoffenheim demolish Bayern. This is a fun weekend, handball rules or not.

Lol true Tony. Vindicated!

Tony, the arm in this case stopped the ball from going where it was intended, that's where the rule stops, the team was disadvantaged. It doesn't have to be going to another player on the same team, like ours which why people could rationalize the call. You've extended your own opinion onto the rule.

I'm just explaining the technical decision-making – not defending calls which detract from the game.

Hi all, I've just listened to the Spurs/Newcastle game, yet more penalty controversy, ball to hand stood the test of time and now tinkering with the laws of the game is threatening to ruin things. I'm grateful that I can recall the times when the referee's decision was final whether we liked it or not. Surely the powers that be can see it's not a success.

John #17 "Ironically, Calvert-Lewin stayed inside the silhouette but imo clearly used his arm to help his body trap the ball in yesterday's game."

Yes, absolutely. Simplest is to say if in the ref's opinion it's a deliberate handball within the penalty area, then it's a pen.

For me, the discussion should be around how we make VAR work, not that it's ruining the game. Personally I feel that is the pundits' view as it potentially threatens their existence given they thrive off debating controversy. Don't buy in or be sucked into it. Something had to be done. Just look at the non VAR injustice we have been served over the years from incompetent and wrong decisions against Liverpool alone.

If it works for Rugby, why can't it work for football? At least with video it is there for all to see and there should be no debate.

Goes back to my point. Regardless, competent officials are key.

Dan "So defenders are going to have to run with their hands behind their back or hands in newly stitched pockets."

I used to play like that in winter so I don't see why the pros can't.

Have seen multiple replays of the Spurs / Dier handball. It's a pen.

But -

The rule is absolutely ridiculous. Dier was jumping in the air and the ball didn't even directly hit him, it deflected off a New Caslte player. The rule has to be changed post-haste.

Now that shouldn't stop anyone from detesting Jose Mouhrino. He stormed off the pitch like a 3 year old child. He is an ass of a human being. Arrogant, spoiled, and condescending. Couple that with Levy owning Spurs, that Club has become wholly unlikeable and I can't see how anyone can root for them.

Now I'm off to Mass to pray God grants me humility and I become less judgmental.

If Clive Thomas we're alive he'd love this. He'd be calling players back the day after to take penalties

Tony#22.
Ahhh go 'ead Tone, give us a laugh!

Mike, are Hoffenheim the team people hate for trying to buy success?

My own opinion counts for nothing JP, because whatever it is, these idiotic decisions are absolutely ruining the game, mate.

I could see the argument yesterday because if it never hit Ward's arm, Richarlison would have been in on goal. (Still not a pen for me though.)

But that one today shows it's now gone beyond a joke. Then again, I was called a biased bastard when I didn't agree with a similar thing in the Champions League Final Liverpool won.

Where do they draw the line, before loads of people start drawing the curtains?

Regarding this discussion about the rules on handball, I actually think it's a storm in a tea cup, a technicality that, like most technicalities, results inevitably in some people being pissed off with a refereeing/VAR decision.

In my view, it's all very unlikely to put anyone seriously off the game (including Hodgson, who's basically making a fuss about a decision that went against him, despite reservations he's expressed previously).

There are bigger fish to fry, like general cheating and diving, in relation to which the handball issues are a mere detail. It's those bigger fish that can put people off the game, regardless of what technology is used to assist decisions.

The media are making a meal of it partly because we're not Man Utd or Liverpool, but mainly because we're Everton. They didn't make a meal of all the dodgy decisions that went against us last season.

Brent, maybe that's why you were never a pro?

Afraid you're right, Dan.

If that was a penalty for the barcodes then we are going to win the league!

Kieran # 34. I don't think Clive Thomas is dead?

New soccer shirts will have to be designed like straight-jackets! Not for the goalies, of course – they can wear theirs after the match.

Kieran #36, not as much as Leipzig and its Red Bull sponsorship.

German fans do hate Hoffenheim's owner Hopp because he likes to spend huge money on the club.

Hoffenheim 4-1 final, should have been 8-1 but Hoff missed 4-5 wide open chances. Amazing to see the world's best club so comprehensively destroyed.

You know the score, Brian. Only a fucking idiot is honest when talking about contentious decisions that go their way. Fowler said Seaman never touched him, and was apparently destroyed in his own changing rooms for being honest.

So keep your mouth shut and cheat, man, until every player has to swear on the Bible before they enter the playing field under oath!

Funny how the slightest brush of an arm/hand is being spotted and pulled up, yet defenders wrapping their arms around attackers at corners and free-kicks seems to be missed or ignored! Guess handball is flavour of the month!

I agree with Lineker's comment on MotD, that refs should only see pitch side replays at normal speed and not slow motion.

The handball rule should be so simple: if hitting the hand or arm changes the flight of the ball, regardless as to the position of the hand or arm or how close it is, then it is a free-kick, in the box a penalty, if it is deemed as deliberate then a red card in addition!

The rule should change, as simply having too many games decided by penalties will kill the game. We love football for the goals, not the panalties.

But, there is a reason – for years defenders would 'make themselves big' and the 'not intentional' rule would be applied. 'Intentional' is impossible to objectively decide, and invariably, when Carragher and Co would 'make themselves big' using their arms, it was not intentional.

So there is a valid justification for taking away the 'intentional' part. Now it comes down to the interpretation of 'unnatural' position. And it has led to some bizarre penalties in recent games.

Maybe a solution would be in-direct free-kicks rather than penalties for such handballs.

Stan #39, must disagree. Diving, especially for penalties, is certainly an outrageous problem, but it's one that VAR has actually helped with. I've seen faked pens overturned by VAR and it always gives me great satisfaction. Dives are rarely deciding games these days.

On the other hand (pun intended), the bizarre handball rule is actually determining the outcome of a remarkable number of games so far this season.The law, and how refs must enforce it, could actually end up affecting the league table. And it's an easily rectifiable piece of idiocy.

Brent, 32 - made me laugh that, you didn't used to sit in the centre circle in spring and make daisy chains, did you?

Amen to that, Tony, though for people like me who don't believe, then swearing on a book means nowt.
As an aside, what a goal just now from Mahrez!

I'd love to be given a chance to change loads of these stupid laws, and I would start by using VAR to stamp out the obvious cheating.

A 30-minute sin-bin for diving in the box, and then an automatic two-match ban for the dirty cheats, would be my first decision.

I've got a few more to keep the game flowing because football is so much more enjoyable to watch when the game flows!

Mike@51: Yes, VAR has helped re diving, agreed, but there is still a way to go. On the new handball rule, whether it's idiotic or not depends on your view. To me, it looks to enhance objectivity, which is good given my experience of the injustices that have resulted from subjective interpretation of whether a handball is or isn't intentional.

If you play for Liverpool, it's more likely to be ball-to-hand, but if you play for Everton it's more likely to be deliberate handball. If that kind of bias can be reduced, all the better. Only time will tell.

Gotta admit I was wrong about Mahrez. I thought he was a show pony who would flop at City. He really is explosive.

Rob #44, Clive Thomas has been dead for about 43 years. Heart still beating but zero brain activity detected.

Tony, try out your rule – it can be no worse than what we have.

Fran, nice post. I cited the action for handball and fouls inside the penalty area need clarification. For example: ‘Any action which results in a foul which is denial of a probable goal and or deprives the attacker of a goalscoring opportunity should result in a direct free-kick from the 18-yard line'. It reflects a foul has taken place but crucially also says the foul was not critical.

I've always asked why a foul committed in non-sensitive parts of the area get you a free shot with a near certainty of a goal.

As a working official, I've whinged since the inception of VAR, to which Mike Gaynes can attest to, what should be included and what shouldn't. Moreover, the laws are outdated and they needed adapting before being paired with technology.

I think we need to distinguish between the current rule on handball penalties and the use of a second (video assistant) ref to determine whether an offence has been committed in the penalty area. Seems these are sometimes being conflated.

Tony, sin bins are excellent tools to cut out poor behaviours.

Having three lads sat out whilst 8 of you have to defend concentrates your mind, because it directly affects the relationship with your teammates. It improves discipline, because things like diving, dissent towards officials, kicking the ball away, and time-wasting etc. are an absolute stain on the game.

Well done to the girls for humping money-bags Chelsea - now play Birmingham on Wednesday in Semi-Final.

Rob #52 - no but I would often stand and admire the view of the hills.

Fook, I hate listening to Jim Beglin on my feed.

John P, dissent was the best part of my game.

That's okay Mike, I'm sure you will appreciate the 10-minute bin to rest your legs.

I've always appreciated the fella who could wrap a scathing piece of dissent into a lovely, pithy one-liner.

You've just passed the honesty test, Brian, 25 desperados the other fella owes you now, Mate!

Not like that Vardy would he have gone down if he was just outside the penalty area?

Tell him that, Tony! 😂

You know he will only call me a liar and a cheat, Brian, I can't believe you sucked me in, mate!

Ha! That Brian Williams still going on about his Desperados???!!!

On another thread he admitted it was his tipple of choice and that he had 'feelings'.

Reads like a non sequitur to me, that... ;-)

Gerry... um... humping?

Geez I feel old. Rory DeLap's 17-year-old kid just came on for Man City.

What a ‘baller Vardy is.

Man City 2-1 down and have now conceded a second penalty. Vardy converts.

Mike - 69 - very much a Scouse phrase, derived from thumping!

City getting a pasting. Now 4-1.

So when was the last time we saw City and Bayern both demolished 1-4 at home on the same day? Gotta be decades ago. Maybe never.

This is already an extraordinary season.

Always wondered if Pep could rebuild a side. He's also had a lot of problems with full backs.

But Leicester have executed perfectly.

Another penalty to Leicester!

Brainless defending all day from City.

2-5. I like that scoreline!

Jamie Vardy looks like he could be Jonjoe Kenny's father.

All very clear penalties, but can you picture Leicester being given all three in front of 60k screaming Man City supporters?

Different world.

Looks like Leicester actually practice going down in the box. For Vardy's second and Maddison's penalty they both lift their legs when they feel defender's slightest touch. Silly defending but dark arts attacking IMO.

Pep inherited Konpany. He can't replace him. Is building a back four his achilles heel?

Brian, absolutely they do. Marginal gains.

Jay #68.

I think you'll find it was Tony A that brought up the Desperado's, as well you know. 😡

Gotta disagree, Brian. Leicester definitely practice getting themselves in position to draw penalties, and they do it beautifully, but I didn't get even a sniff of a dive or easy falldown on any of those. Obvious, significant contact and clear pens that any professional forward would accept.

PT. I've always felt one of the reasons Pep left after 3 years is to avoid the rebuild. Also, no matter how good you are, people always catch up.

Can the same group of players handle that level of intensity for more than 3 years?

First time in Premier League history that one side scored three pens.

Mike #86.

I thought the same until I saw em, especially Madison's in slo-mo.

When you're leaned on or pushed from behind, you don't draw up your legs, they're outstretched normally because the upper body (being pushed) carries the momentum forward.

Lifting and drawing up the legs is a conscious decision, again IMO, to result in a more "obvious" tumble. Very subtle but it can be spotted in slo-mo.

Good point, John. Has he ever bought a defender at City that has worked out for him?

So many goals in the Premier League so far this season. Could it be no fans = no anxiety and translates into better execution of the game? This season could be exceptional in many ways.

Paul @91 dunno mate - how does that explain all the defensive errors, like Man City giving away three stupid pens today? And I would assume managers don't change their tactics just cos no fans there?

I reckon it will settle down soon. Only thing that's really changed seems to be that there's no home advantage whatsoever.

Some weird results so far this weekend. Chelski coming back from 3-0 down. Barcodes last minute penalty at Spurs. Bayern getting hammered by Hoffenheim and today's game at the Etihad. Dortmund getting whacked. Wow!

Man City relying too much on De Bruyne these days. I always thought they were a better side when David Silva played and Aguero but alas they got old as we all do.

Brian, I saw Maddison take sharp contact on his leg as well, and of course you're always going to draw your leg up in that situation. I saw no chance he could have stayed on his feet, and obviously doing so would be a very foolish decision under the circumstances. If Calvert-Lewin took a contact like that and rode the tackle instead of accepting the penalty, we'd be furious.

For the US contingent, NBCSN beginning a conversation about the handball rule.

There are usually a few strange results at the start of the season. If you add a short gap between seasons and diminishing home advantage, it seems even more interesting this year.

I'll stick to my tried and trusted attitude of let's judge everything at Christmas when everyone's played each other at least once.

No dives, Mike, which shows how much the game and opinion has changed imo, mate. First one was a dive, I know you think I'm funny, but once Vardy feels the touch, his options change immediately, because this is the way the game has now become.

Watch Oliver over the next few weeks, and if he stays consistent and keeps giving penalties for every similar incident that cropped up today, I will pay your air-fare, the next time you decide to come over here again Mike.

The right to go down is horrible, especially because it's getting openly encouraged by ex-players in the studio, who definitely should know better, or maybe I'm just getting to old.

I thought Liverpool got 3 pens at Old Trafford the minute Ferguson left, off there old friend Clattenberg Mike, maybe they missed one then?

Leicester look good this season, really good balance to the side. Like us, heavily reliant on their striker remaining fit.

Hey Tony...

I looked it up... Clatterpuss gave the RS two pens that day at Old Trafford.

I wouldn't accept your kind airfare offer, but I'm happy to wager a Guinness on it!

Yes, Dan, if we loose Richarlison, we are in big trouble.

Blimey, Pep has spent over £500 million on defenders at Man City. Puts our spending and cock-ups in the shade.

I will be buying you a few Guinness anyway, Mike, but I also checked it, mate, and he did give Liverpool three penalties that day, obviously because he loved Liverpool, and he always had it in for David Moyes.

Check again, they scored two and missed one, and if the sword is mightier than the pen (debatable), then the referee is definitely mightier than the centre-forward!

I'm shaking my head, I love the game of football, but I prefer to see skill with ability, rather than skill in deception, so I'm not talking about controversy no more.

Who will challenge the RS this season?

Ah, okay Tony. Thanks.

Jarrod Bowen. A player I really wanted us to bid for last year.

Maybe no fans in the stadiums means that match officials feel less intimidated, or not intimidated at all, which could produce decisions less biased towards the home team.

Anthony@103: Everton

Tony, ‘the right to go down'. Players felt for ages you had to be decapitated to get a penalty. Referee's were, in general ‘no' unless it was beyond doubt. See as a game changing event.

This is were the consequences should change. Today all three Leicester penalties were fouls, however not one was on the act of scoring or about to shoot. As you describe they decide to fall because it earns them a free shot at goal. How is that any sort of equivalency? If the penalty was a less favorable shot from 18yards then I bet they'd choose to stay up and shoot.

You aren't going to change the behavior when the prize for doing it is so big, lessen the prize the behavior will change.

A foul in the penalty area is a penalty, it matters not a jot if the player fouled was about to shoot, pick his nose, or was busy thinking about his summer holidays nor does it matter in which part of the area the foul occurred.

However, there is a growing number of players, well most of them actually who will go down at the slightest touch and this is having a corrosive effect on the game itself. Add the new rules for handball and there are going to be penalties galore this season.

Perhaps handball in its current guise should result in two penalty shots and only if both attempts were converted would a goal be given. I suspect that the betting companies are huge motivators in the way the game is officiated nowadays, every delay or controversial shout will attract many gamblers to try their luck and judgement resulting in increased profits for the bookmakers?

John@108: Yes, it's making the game less attractive. Since Leicester won the league, I tend to view them as second to Liverpool in doing what is basically cheating in looking for a penalty or free kick at the least opportunity. Vardy is basically a cheat, in addition to an unpleasant character by constantly getting in the face of officials. It's all a long way from the old concept of 'gentlemanly conduct'.

You put it better than me JP, and I remember Maddison, getting an Arsenal player sent off by feigning injury Stan, which has got to be as low as a player can go.

Tony@111: I must admit, number 2 to the pleasure I get when Liverpool lose is the pleasure I get when Leicester lose. Leicester are a kind of ‘Liverpool lite'.

Stan, Gary Neville thought he was ‘brilliant ‘ and ‘clever ‘ the way he (Vardy) cheated to get a penalty. I hate that hatchet faced, cheating Albert Steptoe lookalike as much as any RS player. The only way I could dislike the obnoxious little shit more is if he signed for them.
And Leicester, the long ball kick and rush master. Dreadful outfit.

Ray@112: I'm glad it's not just me. I can't stomach Leicester, especially Vardy. Gary Neville is also quite unlikeable.

The only pleasant thought I have about Leicester is beating them 7-1 in 1968.

Stan, I remember that day well, it was my 20th Birthday. Great day (and night!).

Ray (112), Albert Steptoe, they could be twins, brllliant!!!

U23s play Derby at Southport tonight. Unfortunately no fans allowed. Derby are streaming the game. Free - just need to enrol.

Mane is on the juice. Those shoulders aren't naturally muscular like that. C'mon the Arse!

Mane should've been red-carded!!!!

Eugene - his arm was up, but he was looking at the ball and it's not like he punched him or anything. I think it was a yellow.

Arsenal are all over the place, passing the ball to Liverpool as much their own players. Willian at fault for Liverpool's second goal, not tracking back. Arsenal hardly attacked and were lucky with their goal.

I hate to say it but Liverpool must be the fittest team in the league. I can't see Arsenal getting anything from this game unless they change their tactics and shape up. They don't look like they are expecting anything from this game either.

Brian and Mike, I think Leicester do draw penalties and Vardy is the first player I have ever seen who should have it on hIs CV. Bellamy was and looked like a cheat. Vardy looks wronged.

He is not, strictly speaking, fouled, nor does he dive but he gets penalties. I don't care for him much but think he is one of the most underrated players of the Premier League era. There is something so utterly, fucking hateful about him that can only be admired.

There is something so utterly, fucking hateful about him that can only be admired.

Andy that is poetic mate.

Andy Crooks,

Was it Bellamy who Darren Huckerby whose dive sent Materazzi into meltdown?

Horrible to say, but Liverpool are on another level to the rest of the League.

Look how City collapsed at Leicester, this Liverpool would never do that.

Can't wait for the Derby, but it will take some performance.

Of course, if Lacazette didn't fluff his lines, maybe a different result would have happened. But it will take something to beat them.

Don't understand teams playing triangles in their own box especially when they're losing and chasing the game. Every time Arsenal did it, they invited RS onto them, panicked and hoofed it straight back to them. It's madness!

Can I ask, lads, why the shite are above us in the league? We're on equal goal difference and we are alphabetically before them. Why have the BBC got them above us???

Goals scored.

They've scored more.

We are joint top.

It's certainly going to be interesting derby, question is how will Carlo set up against Liverpool?

Sit back and hope to catch them on the break or try to take the game to them like Leeds did?

Carlo's Napoli nullified their threat and were fairly comfortable in both games so he knows how to play against them but do we have the personnel?

Agree that Liverpool are very fast and physical when they play on the front foot, so on that basis Arsenal played right into their hands.

I see loads of little chinks in their system, but they do bully teams, and listening to their manager speak now, it's obvious bully's hate being put on the back foot.

If we beat Brighton we will be top for at least 24 hours.

Nothing new here. The usual fairy tales at Analfield with Jota scoring on his debut. Never fails. Arsenal, still rebuilding but with Luiz and Holding in the middle are just not good enough and really Arteta lost the game before the start. He has some decent youngsters and needs to play them. Early days yet.

Colin based on our last game I wouldn't sit back. Too much opportunity for careless fouls around the box.

Not so one sided overall. Arsenal spurned several very good chances, could easily have ended a draw with better finishing.

It's all about sustainability really Kieran, because if Everton can replicate the first 25 minutes on Saturday, for a longer period, I can see them beating any team, and it's a very long time since I could say that with real belief.

The next game is always the most important game, especially if it can get us into the last eight of a cup competition, so let's see what kind of team Ancelotti picks on Wednesday night because it won't be an easy game.

As much as it pains me to say it, they are a very good side, under Conrad Pooh's (and his dancing teeth) twin brother.

And the media love them / him.

But they are not invincible. They are get-attable (not a word I know) if you approach with the right mentality.

But for too long, teams, no better exemplified by our own, have been beaten before they turn up.

Someone above mentioned a "bullying" mentality – and that's it. Stand up to them and they'll collapse, or you'll lose but with some pride. When did we last lose with pride to that lot?

I'm still wondering why Arteta dropped Gabriel for the game.

I thought Arsenal were a shambles today and Leeds played much better than them against the devil's spawn.

Tony

I am upset WHU beat Wolves because had they lost I suspect Moyes would have played a B team and focused on the relegation battle. He's actually got WHU playing pretty well. Soucek much like Cahill at Everton and lots of industrious players with a little bit of flair

Thanks, lads, just checked the full table.

Watched the second half of the Arsenal game, a couple of points..

The RS pressed high and Arsenal would try and hit them on the break, when they did the RS were vulnerable and a couple of one on ones should have given at least a share of the points. This is were Everton can get at them. Defensively the RS are weak in midfield, they move it around quickly because the opposition give them space to do so (Leeds didn't but weren't good enough to finish them) The through ball kills them. James R please note.

The Blues will need to close them down in the middle of the park and press high with their own full-backs to keep the crosses from coming in. Our weakness is if they get through the centre of the park they have the two centre backs to face (even I can tip-toe around) We cannot let them attack them. (I wish we could play a sweeper)

They are vulnerable at the back, not at good as us in midfield but get too much respect up front. To me, Mane is their danger man, is fast and can turn on a sixpence to hurt you. But, apart from that, it's all about stopping building up a pressing rhythm, that's the battle of midfield. We can do this.

Jay, I suspect Luiz played to utilize his long passing range and as Christine describes to enable them to counter as they pressed high.

Andy @121; yet 3yrs(?) ago post Lukaku, some said he was too old to make it worth our while buying him.

Derek, Probably the same posters who where saying the three new players where all to old, to slow, from a relegated team, No sell on value etc.

Christine@141: Agree totally. Their midfield hasn't been their strong point for some time, hence quick balls from defence to attack, pretty much in their traditional workmanlike style since the days of Shankley. Klopp's 'gegenpressing' and focus on stamina has been ideal for that style.

Arguably, our midfield is one of the best around at the moment, perhaps the best, and certainly the most entertaining and reminiscent (to me) of the late-60s Everton. We could take Liverpool apart in midfield, with some style.

As usual, the media, especially the BBC are fawning over them and glossing over any potential weaknesses.

Their overall culture never seems to change. Last night, there were messages from reds telling us how great they are and how everyone else is crap. Even when they won the league I had messages from some of them telling me Everton were shite. I had to tell them to focus on themselves rather than Everton, because it'd taken them an awfully long time to finally win the PL and they should savour it while they can. They're like dysfunctional spoilt kids.

Christine (141), lots of sense in your post, but the weakness In Everton's centre backs, which you highlight, doesn't bare thinking about, come on Carlo and Mr. Brands get a good one in before the window shuts along with a fast tenacious winger, like the one Moyes bought in January for WHU.