Roger Hunt dies at 83

Alan, I certainly think that Roger Hunt is worth a tribute on here, a fine all-round footballer who played the game fairly and squarely for Liverpool, Bolton and England including running his socks off in the 1966 World Cup winning team.

I remember a game in 1962 in a 3-3 draw with fellow promotion team Leyton Orient when he scored two 20-yard cracking goals on a mud-bound pitch which were matched by two equally good goals from Dave Dunmore, the Leyton Orient striker.

I think Roger was well-liked as a footballer and a man by plenty of neutral fans, not just Red fans, he will be fondly remembered by all of them.

A great player and goalscorer and one of the true gentleman to play for the Reds. Roger always had my utmost respect and I'm sure I speak for a lot of Blues of my generation who saw him play, a great servant to the game, World Cup winner, and my deepest sympathy goes out to all his family, a big loss RIP.

John, I second your sentiments regarding Roger Hunt, a great goalscorer.

I can still remember watching in awe as a 10-year-old boy as the Jules Rimet Trophy was paraded around Goodison by Roger and Ramon Wilson prior to the 1966 Charity Shield match.

Before my time but I love to see humility and respect amongst football fans. I may be biased (Michael?), but I think Evertonians are still good at it. There's not enough of it amongst the vast majority of fan bases nowadays.

Everton is who we are married to. In sickness and in health. Till death do us part. There will be no-one else. Ever.

But football is what took us to them and we should respect a good footballer regardless of who they play for, Liverpool included. I'll put it out there and reach for my Army helmet in case of incoming fire, but from my generation, I still think Kenny Dalglish is the best British footballer I've seen that I remember and Alan Hansen one of the classiest central defenders I've watched. John Stones reminds me of him a lot.

Rest in Peace Roger Hunt, you obviously touched the footballing community on both sides of the city and beyond.

You may indeed be biased, Danny, I couldn't possibly comment. But your English grammar and marital commitment to the Blues can't be faulted.

However, the unnecessary mention of certain players of a red persuasion crosses a line for me. Why? Just Why??

Aren't there already enough places on the internet that you (and far too many others) should feel the need to pollute the purity of this hallowed ground with them?

Michael,

I think you may be misjudging this one with your comments.

Firstly Roger Hunt was part of England's only World Cup winning side, a true immortal for that one reason.

Two he played in an era that predated the tribal hatred which characterises the game today. Rivalry yes, hatred no.

Talk of ‘polluting' is inappropriate in my opinion.

RIP Roger.

Rather churlish of you Michael I'm afraid. I'm disappointed with your comments. Roger Hunt epitomised an age when football was less bitter and confontational.

I am old enough to remember a time when there wasn't so much hatred in football. There was a fierce rivalry between the teams but no real hatred, as I recall, unless my glasses are rose-tinted.

I suppose it is part of modern life generally. Social media facilitates bullying by the anonymous keyboard warriors. Politics is even worse. If you vote the wrong way you are not only misguided, you are evil. The country is so polarised, one can't discuss politics any more.

As ever, we are following the USA, a few years behind. Perhaps in the near future, our cities will be unliveable too.

Great pro, Roger Hunt.

Sad that only Bobby Charlton, George Cohen and Geoff Hurst remain of the 66'ers.

Rethink Michael. Poor choice of words and attitude.

Wise words, Rodger.

Until 5 years ago I lived around the corner from Roger Hunt, in a village on the outskirts of Warrington. I walked round the village most days, and often encountered Roger Hunt, also on his daily constitutional. We usually passed the time of day, commenting on the weather and so on. He seemed a very nice bloke to talk to, and you wouldn't have thought he was a famous footballer from the 66 World Cup.

Anyway, he was a fantastic player in the 60s, and I'll always remember his lap of honour with Ray Wilson, both holding the Jules Rimet Trophy. I went to his testimonial match at Anfield circa 1970, and also to Bill Shankly's. My red mates came to Brian Labone's testimonial, and one that was organised for Tommy Lawton.

RIP Roger.

Would it at least be appropriate to have an (updated?) article on those from the 1966 World Cup squad that are no longer with us, paying tribute to each of those since gone?

Sod it, Hunt was a good footballer and a good man, regardless of his "associates".

As far as I'm concerned, by way of his role In that lap of honour, Roger Hunt is a part of Goodison Park history.

Who knows, it's possible that his goal in that match, condemning us to a well-deserved defeat, helped persuade Sir John Moores that the greatest player I've seen in an Everton shirt should be signed within a matter of days.

Dave - 1 - Your last paragraph sums it up perfectly.

If my memory serves me correctly, I think Roger Hunt and Dave Hickson played in the same Liverpool team when Hickson made his debut for Liverpool by scoring one - if not two - diving headers.

Roger Hunt knew where the goal was, knew how to put it into the onion bag and was a real workhorse during the 1966 World Cup Final at Wembley, for which I am still proud to say I attended (as well as all the games at Goodison).

He played in the days when blues and reds mixed at the same Derby games, long lost times but despite being a red, he will be fondly remembered by those who saw him play. And yes, he was a gentleman. RIP Mr Hunt.

I remember going to his testimonial match Anfield with my dad who was a Red - and being locked out. Such was the respect for a man and player admired by Red and Blue alike. Met him a while later in a fish and chip shop in Culcheth, near Warrington where he ran a haulage company with his brother. Seemed like a down to earth bloke who I really liked despite his allegiances. R.I.P. Roger Hunt. A different era!

Alrite lads, I've given you a dedicated thread here where you can mourn the passing of yet another footballer from that era.

What triggered me was seeing more bloody Liverpool players' names mentioned by Danny... Sorry, but it boils my blue blood. And people always telling us by comparison how wonderful Liverpool are at doing a, b or c, as a way of putting Everton down in one way or another. It seems to happen on different threads at least once a week.

For the record, I don't hold Liverpool or anything to do with them in any respect whatsoever. Never have and never will.

Due respect to Stan Schofield's post as you did actually know him personally.

Michael

Well I see you are doubling down. I guess people will make their own mind about your position. I think it's downright mean-spirited.

Hi, all who have paid their respects to Roger Hunt congratulations are in order. Roger who was five days my junior, was a hard working goal machine, and only the most biased fans would deny him the respect of remembering him as such. RIP Roger.

I'm staying out of this debate!!

Agree with Michael. Although there always exceptions and Roger Hunt is one of those exceptions - I think that was what Danny meant too.

RIP Roger Hunt. One of a very select group of English players who could look in the mirror and see a world champion staring back at him

It's an honorable position Michael, hold to it.

Come on Michael, they're our cousins and nephews at the end of the day. I despise and resent them as much as anyone. Okay, maybe not quite as much as Rob, but I am as bitter as most!!

But I also make footballing judgements and remember the good times of travelling with a mixed bunch of mates and family to derby's.

More recently (he says - it was 2009; recent for me!!!), I'll always remember being in a pub near Wembley watching the semi final. I'd given up my ticket so my son could attend but wanted to be near the ground. The pub was predominantly filled with other ticketless United fans but a table of Evertonians were in there too. Only 4 of them and then me and the wife (Villa, humouring me) in the corner.

I'll always remember the moment they started chanting distasteful Hillsborough stuff. One of the 4 walked over and confroned them. He proper put himself in the firing line as he was massively outnumbered. But he called them out and stood his ground. He won the debate, they shut up. To be fair, I would have messed with him!

A bit like a family feud or Scouse wedding. I can fight with my brother, but if anyone else does, you're fighting me too.

Lovely story Stan. I used to bump into John Aldridge in my Off Licence in Woolton when I lived there. He was quite a regular. But then I guess I was too hence bumping into him often!!

But nice gesture to put this up. I'm sure there are many of a generation who would like the chance to pay respect.

RIP to Roger Hunt, he was 2 years older than me.

His name brings up a time when it was not unusual as an Evertonian to go to Anfield if Everton were playing away, it was as other people have stated more of a friendly rivalry than there seems to be today.

Some players in that era are not remembered, but a player like Hunt will always be remembered as a good player and a gentleman.

Michael (5), ToffeeWeb is the only place I go to on the internet so it was the only place where I could put down my feelings on Roger Hunt and I thank you for letting me air my thoughts on a very good player and man.

By the way Michael, it might help you if I tell you that, when Dave Hickson left the Blues to join Liverpool, Harry Catterick tried to sign Roger in part exchange but Liverpool kept a tight hold on him. That story is courtesy of the Liverpool Echo at the time.

Hunt, St John, Yeats and Shankly created something unique in English footy transforming a lower division noddy club into one of the most dominant forces in the country and Europe.

Tribalism dictates we despise them for it and whine "why them, not us?" but the truth is Hunt represented the answer. He was a tremendous footballer who gave of his best every time (James, take note).

As far as I can remember he never took the piss out of us and just got on with his job. Gratifying to see Evertonians big enough to respect that.

I'm with Michael too. Danny -why did you have to wax lyrical about other red players? RIP Roger Hunt.

Feeling harshly done by here but I'll take it.

I don't have issue commenting on the abilities of any footballer regardless of who they play for.

I have man love for Kevin Sheedy and will back any Everton player when others feel compelled to criticise our own. But I can acknowledge a good player when I see one regardless of who they play or played for, including the dark side.

Apologies for any offence. Not intended. I thought we were, as Howard Kendall described us, the most knowledgable of football fans?

Anyway, I'll take my stick.

I have my ticket for Watford, still hoping for West Ham, but haven't told the wife about that one yet.

As a young RAF Apprentice circa 1967, I was required to travel in uniform, I joined a train at Birmingham, only to find I'd blundered into a compartment with Hunt and St. John!! My horror must have been palpable!!

Fair play, they treated me to food and drinks and regaled me with tales and anecdotes. Say what you like, but, it was a very enjoyable train journey.

Those are great stories and memories Frank.

Danny you feel harshly done by, after me admitting that I used to go to Anfield when Everton were playing away, late 50s early 60s, its a wonder I am not hung drawn and quartered.

Bill, as an 80s kid, even we used to occasionally sneak into Anfield when they opened the gates 20 minutes before the end.

You just wanted to watch football.

I remember my Dad, a total Alex Young and Alan Ball disciple and the biggest Evertonian I knew. He jumped off his chair when Alan Kennedy scored that European Cup winning goal.

Now, he probably brought me up too blue (no such thing), so I could never go that far. I suppose because of my generation, I'm probably of the last of those that understands the relationship but knows what impacted it and feels bitter about it. But I understand it if that makes sense.

Bill

Different times I think. But Barry calls it right, it's tribalism. It's just how you define that tribalism personally.

I've only ever supported us, my family are Blues to a man. My grandad, my dad, my brothers, and now most proudly my kids and my grandkids who've never lived in Liverpool.

I revel in Liverpool's misfortune but on an individual level it doesn't stop me appreciating the ability of Daglish, Rush or probably the greatest bete noir in these parts,Gerrard for the players they where. I just hated it when they did it.

The same for Roger Hunt. A top player with an outstanding career. And as Dazzler quite rightly points out a world champion, one of a select few.

Bill #31, I was a frequent visitor to Anfield in the 60's and 70's when my dad's mate couldn't go to matches due to his shift work. I remember the playful stick that I used to get from the Kemlyn Road season ticket holders when I showed up - they all knew I was a staunch Blue.

Even as a teenager, I could appreciate the good nature of the rivalry and yes, I appreciated the chance just to go to a top-class football match and watch star players such as Roger Hunt. My being a committed Blue didn't / doesn't mean I can't appreciate their players occasionally.

By the way, I always wanted the opposition to win!

Different era, different attitudes.

When I went to Hunt's testimonial, I was on the Kop with my red mates, and I chanted Hunt's name. At Shankly's testimonial, I did similarly, and I remember an Evertonian getting onto the pitch when Shankly was doing his lap of honour, shaking Shankly's hand and giving him his Everton scarf, which Shankly then carried round the pitch. That Evertonian got a massive cheer.

To be clear, I completely respect and celebrate the support that Blues have given their red counterparts simply for being part of their local and football communities. I'm not from Liverpool and have no such mitigating circumstances.

RIP Roger Hunt. Nice to read the post from Stan.

Dave #25

I think you're getting your wires crossed a bit. Dave Hickson had long left Everton before Catterick became the manager.

As a collective I hate Liverpool football club and their fans. They are largely a horrible, self-entitled herd when together. I despise the way that the media is infested with ex redshites and the constant love-in and obsession that tv, radio and printed media outlets seem to have for them. I particularly despise their current manager and the fact that so many people have fallen for the false portrayal of him as some sporting, lovable character. It is all an act, much like the current Prime Minister who has somehow hoodwinked millions of working class people into thinking he's a bumbling, messy-haired, lovable rogue and got everyone referring to him as ‘Boris' when he's a dangerous, privileged and self-entitled chancer who is destroying this country for future generations.

I digress, but, some of my family and mates are Liverpool fans and I don't hate them as individuals. There are some that you can even have a proper football conversation with. I can also respect someone like Roger Hunt who was a great player and also a fair one who played the game In the right spirit. RIP Roger.

I think the "tribalism" aspect affects younger folk than us who revelled in the football of the 1960's. Back then hatred was the province of dickheads. Plenty of families have/definitely had reds and blues in the same house sometimes. It was rampant rivalry, not hatred, ever. Even in the 1980's Wembley finals saw hundreds of cars with red and blue scarves hanging out of them all travelling to London. The city produces very special people.

Sermon over, Roger Hunt distinguished himself by what he did on the pitch in my opinion. He was never derogatory of any other team - similar to Bobby Charlton. He had class, and a helluv-an eye for a goal. RIP.

Bill (38), yes I think you are correct,Dave joined Liverpool in November 1959, just before Shankley became Liverpool's manager and Catterick never came to Everton until 1961, so it must have been Johnnie Carey who tried to sign Hunt, the story was definitely in The Liverpool Echo.

What confused me, caused me to cock the story up, was I thought of the spectator who came on the pitch with the banner. “Caterick out “ or Caterick must go” spelling Catterick's name wrongly, now I can't remember what that banner was about, maybe when he dropped Alex Young for Royle but that was in 1966.

Chris Leyland...spot on, every word.

I also went to Hunt's testimonial match in 1972. There were many Evertonians in a capacity crowd. It was a very different world fifty years ago. Hunt was a very good player who never said or did anything offensive regarding Everton or Evertonians. There was not the same vitriol between the two sets of fans in those days although there were occasional punch-ups inside Anfield and in pubs. These were usually one versus one affairs between tired and emotional individuals rather than organised violence.

Until the early seventies the relationship between the two sets of supporters was on an even keel with the clubs on an equal footing as regards success on the pitch. That changed in the seventies as our neighbours gathered trophies while we won nothing. The childish behaviour of some of their players, notably Hughes, McDermott and Phil Thompson in mocking us was guaranteed to create resentment.

That resentment was compounded by the actions of their fans at Heysel and the subsequent UEFA ban which stymied our ambitions just when we had the chance of catching up with them on a European level. From a purely footballing point of view the relationship has never recovered.

Roger Hunt was a great footballer and a proper gent.

My arl man said as much and Hunt was a great finisher and footballer.

I'd met him in the past at football charity events, and he was as humble and magnanimous as the players, from that era were.

Full respect, and RIP Roger Hunt.

Chris -cracking post.
Danny - a minor blip in your wonderful contributions!

Dave #41

Yes, I can see that guy now with his misspelt (or should that be misspelled lol) placard.

Chris #39

I agree with every word!

Sir Roger Hunt, I doubt you can find a person to say a bad word about him...unless he was scoring against you, but that was his job, it was what he did.

Definitely Not a rs.

I liked him that much I even went to his testimonial. Thousands locked out, It pissed down and I got soaked to the skin.

It was a testimonial and played in typical testimonial manner, fast enough, but nothing too naughty...well mostly.

Only 3 players took it seriously...but they were the sort that took every game seriously... a very young Kevin Keegan, a very, shall we say 'mature' Jerry Byrne and one more, named in the programme as; "A.N. Other"

Tony Kay, still under the 'Sine Die' ban, but hey it was a testimonial and nobody was looking too hard at ID's. and (IMO) even at the ripe old age of 37(?) put a MotM performance.

Proper football, played by proper footballers and none more proper than Roger Hunt.

Chris @39. I think you capture the sentiment very pertinently.

We are here to respect a footballer that, those who saw him, including Evertonians, admired for his footballing ability.

But your point is probably how most of us feel.

I have cousins, nephews and a brother-in-law as well as friends who are massive reds. I can have sensible conversations with them, either one-to-one or at family gatherings.

But as a collective, they boil my usually calm blood with their self-appreciation and self-obsession, notwithstanding their convenient airbrushing of history. And believe me, that is magnified when you live in an area surrounded by London reds. It's like having one of those 6 year old playground discussions about football. You don't usually get past the "you're shit, we're great" phase of the debate. That's about as constructive as it gets.

Back to the thread. Wonderful to see genuine respect from Evertonians to an obviously respected footballer. That's what makes us different from them.

Wow - this has been an interesting thread, where I presume the majority of posts have been made by some of our elder statesmen here on TW. Roger Helm #8, your comments particularly resonated with me.

Danny, I enjoy reading your posts as I can identify with your comments about your family and those faithful hounds you walk with every day. I only have one dog these days but she comes into school with me every day as an assistance dog and absorbs my mutterings as we trudge around in the wake of defeats.

For those of you who over the years have seen and heard more than some of us can ever imagine, I love reading your musings, which are sprinkled with respect, wisdom and downright decency. I have recently turned 59 and all of a sudden, those 'Grumpy Old Man' t shirts start to make sense!

I have two brothers who are ardent Reds and whilst my sister and I love a good debate with them from opposite sides of Stanley park, we have always managed to keep it civil. I refuse to refer to them as 'RS'. They are my family, I love them and they are thoroughly decent human beings.

Roger Hunt was also a decent human being and a fantastic footballer. He will be missed.

When Hickson left, Dave, there was also a man with a banner. Maybe that was what you were thinking of.

He came on with a banner, at the match prior to him leaving reading “If Davy goes we all go”, to great applause, prior to being ushered away by the bobbies.

He went, we stayed. He scored 2 goals on his Liverpool debut, and I was stood on the Kop with my best mate Barry. He's still my best mate now, and still supports Liverpool.

Roger Hunt was a very good footballer, scoring loads of goals for Liverpool. He won a World Cup medal, and despite being no Jimmy Greaves, he made England a more effective team with his skill and his sheer hard work as well. Like many of his contemporaries he seems a decent, modest human being.

RIP.

Roger Hunt was not only a nice guy he was also one of the best strikers of his generation. There was no elaborate celebrations when he scored just a quick handshake with the nearest team mate then head back to the centre circle, didnt matter what type of goal he scored from a tap in to a goal from outside the box. Nowadays players score simple tap ins and they celebrate as if they have scored the goal of the season.

I despise the way Sky have tribalized the game, like many of my age I used to go with my red mates to Anfield 8 or 9 times a year and they came to Goodison with me. There was always a rivalry but not the nastiness that is prevalent today, we could appreciate good players from which ever club they played for were now if you praise an opposition player you are looked on as some sort of traitor. I remember one visit to Anfield and they were playing Leeds and Bremner unleashed one from the edge of the box that flew into the top corner, I forgot were I was for a moment and jumped with both arms in the air shouting Yes!!!. There were a few choice words offered in my direction but never felt in any danger.

I know you cant turn the clock back but football then seemed more enjoyable, and back then there wasnt wall to wall coverage so they only way to see these top players was to go to the game, no Sky just 1 game on match of the day and no highlights of other games. The only games that were shown live were the International matches.

Chris (50), yes I was at Dave Hickson's home debut for Liverpool v Villa, you're right he scored both goals in a 2-1 win, and clapped off the pitch by both teams as well as the Liverpool crowd, I think Everton got beat 8-2 at Newcastle on the same day!!

I was also at Roger's benefit game and as Derek (47)says it was a rain soaked night but didn't deter the crowds from turning up and showing their appreciation of a great player and man, I'd forgotten that Tony Kay played in this game, only for his ban Tony could have enjoyed a night like this for himself with another full house turning up to show how much he was admired: if only, so sad.

Bloody Hell Dave, I'd forgotten all about that result. My memory being kind to me for once!

Shankly loved Dave apparently, and wanted to keep him on.

Eddie - I'm sorry!

John Rafferty @43. Very good post. It is definitely the case that, the unfortunate events in Brussels changed the landscape of the relationship, just as we were seemingly coming back on an even keel. I like your point about the odd punch up.

I always remember the Anfield Derbys where we roughly had a 3rd of the Kop. As you looked at it, our fans were to the right and you could see the diagonal blue line just right of the goal post up to the top right corner. Around half time, you would often see a "hole" open up as a couple (no more than that) had a go at each other, whilst the majority gave them space and watched. But nothing more than that!!

Andy McNabb, the hounds and those early mornings are my sanity. The boy nods in agreement at my Everton rants. Sometimes there's a look of concern and then other times he's just distracted by squirrels!

My sister's house is classic. Brother-in-law a Red. Two sons are reds, the other a season ticket holding blue. My sister, although never a huge follower of football, leans towards Everton (probably because of me and my brothers) but works for Liverpool Football Club!

No other city.

Derek@47: I seem to recall that Stuart Hall and Eddie Waring also played in that testimonial.

Hi Danny [54] the best days were when Reds and Blues travelled together for Derby games, and stood side by side. In crowds of fifty to sixty thousand it's inevitable that there would be the occasional 'disagreement', but it wasn't called the 'Friendly Derby' for nothing. Unfortunately it now bears some resemblance to the Glasgow 'Old Firm' encounter, and some fans wonder why we of a certain age, yearn for a return of the 'Good old days'.

John@56: I've noticed over the years that with respect to Liverpool's relative dominance over us, some of their supporters who used to be fair minded and sporting have become less so, and perhaps a bit arrogant. That is, the overall changes you point to seem to have affected some older Liverpool supporters as well as the younger ones.

As an example, I will always praise, to reds, players like Hunt and Clemence when they die. However, I seldom get any reciprocation, like when Pickering and Young died not so long ago. I find this disappointing, but refuse to let it affect my own behaviour in praising Liverpool players on merit. As I say, it's affected some older supporters as well as younger, which is probably a testament to the increased tribalism in the game, perhaps to do with there being so much money in it and so much media bias.

Stan. Its called class. We have it.

I stand to be corrected but I doubt if any Kopite website had comments praising the late great Ramon Wilson.

John McFarlane Snr 56

Was it ever truly a friendly derby?

I was born the year Shankly brought them up from the second division and hated them with a passion from the get go even though we were still Merseyside's top club.

And it was mutual. The banter always had an undercurrent of nastiness it showed in one of the 2 questions you faced outside of your own parish when a scrap was on the cards - "red or blue? and Catholic or protestant?".

I dunno maybe it was just me

On a different note, for which I make no apology. Would those that pledged to donate to Derek Knox's collection for Cancer Research and haven't yet done, do so please?
Derek's put a lot of effort into the collection and also the ToffeeWeb get togethers.
So if you pledged to support the charity please do it, and if you didn't then do it anyway.

I think it was the labelled the friendly derby because even in the midst of the hooligan blighted 70s and 80s Barry, we could still stand alongside each other. You didn't get that anywhere else.

Yes there was the odd and inevitable handbags and occasional Mexican dance off, but by and large we could watch the match alongside each other.

My experience was one of travelling with mates, red and blue, to the match, mostly going our separate ways as we entered the grounds, then meeting up to head into town and travel home together.

Undoubtedly, the atmosphere. would get trial and heated, and was far from friendly during the 90 minutes. But it never boiled over into large scale violence, which was a credit to both sets of supporters in the context of the time. It was a very unique thing between 2 sets of supporters, let alone 2 local rivals in that era of hooliganism and football violence, which is why it got the tag.

I think the FA cup final after Hillsborough, summed this up better than anything, when the Wembley pitch was full of both sets of supporters after the game, and not a single punch was thrown, unlike the game at Anfield when Graham Sharp, scored that brilliant goal, and one of the biggest fights I've ever seen in my life took place after the game in the middle of the kop, and when everyone seemed to realize there would be no winners, just went their separate ways!

The 'friendly' Derby of the '70s and 80s was largely a myth perpetuated by Radio Merseyside's Billy Butler. In those days Stanley Park was like a battleground!

The RS were 'friendly', or should I say patronising, when we were in losing streaks but they couldn't handle it in the 1980s and later, in the Joe Royle period, when we regularly turned them over.

I find most RS to be self entitled twats but the worst are the teleclappers who never actually go to the game.

Re. The League Cup Final Derby. I think that deep down both sets of supporters...even the idiots of which both side have a few...knew the eyes of the Country were upon us and we put our best foot forward, but it was just a special occasion.

And talking of idiots, the ratio of theirs to real people seems to have shot off the scale...probably in relation to titles and cups.

Sadly now a days: its, rs; you always get exactly what it says on the tin.

Just to add my two pennath worth, RIP Roger Hunt. Some interesting debate. I, like many others, used to go to Anfield in the 70s when Everton were away, with my sister, who is a red. Lots of reds reciprocated. I never used to see any mither at derby games (that's not to say it didn't happen) and I used to get tickets for the kop.(my dad had a mate who knew a RS director who could get Liverpool tickets) I also stood with them on the kippax for league cup final replay. Again no issues. I first noticed real change in the derby atmosphere in the 90s. No idea what sparked it off, but you suddenly started to see pockets of fighting in the mixed crowd, and now it's got to the point whereby you can't sit with them anymore as they just can't help themselves having a dig.

As has been pointed out in a comment above, I don't hate individual reds, as I say my sister and brother in law are both reds but collectively they are complete arseholes. Never used to despise them but I do now. Classless. They are doing a good number on themselves now as I think most neutrals hold them and the mancs as the most despised club regardless of the media love in.

Hi Barry [59] yes, there was such a thing as the Friendly Derby, and it's my opinion that any bitterness that exists now was the result of the Heysel incident.

Hi Bill [64] the period I referred to was mainly the 50s and 60s, we moved from the Anfield district to Skelmersdale in April 1967, and while I used to walk home along Priory Road prior to moving to Skelmersdale, I never witnessed any unruly scenes that you describe. You say that these happened in the 70s, and you will see from my post to Barry [59] that it's my belief that things turned sour after the Heysel incident.

Hi Derek [65] I don't think that the idiots of either side, would have been bothered by what the rest of the country might think of them.

I think it all started to go down hill fast in 1977 after Hughes' got pissed and started singing the Everton are tragic thing, personally never got around that disrespect and have despised them as a club ever since.

As lots of posters have already said Roger Hunt's testimonial was packed out with reds and blues. If I remember rightly Hughes didn't fill analfield for his testimonial shortly after the 1977 disgrace.

Any RIP Roger a true gent.

I thought the contempt and hatred between RS and us began after the RS proposed marching round Goodison with a coffin that had gone to one. It was the year of the Wimbledon Great escape game, irony was our sponsors at the time were one2one mobile phones. Roger Hunt was always perceived as a gentleman, RIP Roger Hunt probably one of the last RS players with any class.

Bill Watson, you'll trigger me. I have spent many years in London surrounded by your declared tele clappers. My accent may not be the strongest due to my background and years spent away. But you can still tell where I come from if you listen carefully. Aside from the fact they haven't even visited the city of Liverpool, let alone been to the stadium of the team they profess to have life long affiliation with, the question that always grates me is "if you're from Liverpool, why do you support Everton"? It's a good job I'm a calm person. I walk away from that one without offering reply to the ignorance.

Dave Ganley @66. You don't directly make the point, but it's an interesting indirect point. Has the enforced segregation through the way tickets are sold now led to the atmosphere? It's difficult to get a ticket in different sections of the ground now so it is very segregated, which will lead to the more toxic atmosphere.

Remember a couple of years ago when Merseyside Police actually created an issue by deploying hundreds of Police because of concerns of trouble? Police vans lined up along Priory Road.

Yet guess what; no hint of serious trouble? I'm not excusing idiots, but sometimes the authorities will present the perception of a problem when there is no real problem there and actually create the problem. We've been going to watch these fixtures together in our own city for generations yet they treated it like a Leeds v Millwall fixture. Nanny / police state mentality.

Bill [64] I think you have got it spot on, when they were winning you would see them in the pubs down County road after the game but when we got on top in the 80s for a few short years they didnt like it and it started to go downhill. I also think they have suffered more than most as working class supporters by their owners pricing them out of going to games and the game going RS supporter nowadays is a completely different demographic to days past and banter gave way to bile some time ago.
A lot of the ex-pros around Liverpool red and blue gave up a lot of their time to things like awards events for junior football and you had to admire them as true ambassadors for the game the likes of which we won't see again with many of today's mercenaries

As far as I know he was never disrespectful to us and I don't therefore see anything untoward in paying respects on his death.

He was a decent man from all accounts. My dad did some business with him at his peak concerning his football boots and said what a nice guy he was. A great striker but modest too.

It is a tad churlish to class him with the prats. Hunt would not have approved of the behaviour of the likes of him and Hughes.

RIP - a great player and decent man.

Danny #70,

The repost needs to be "If you're from London, why don't you support Chelsea or Arsenal"? How many Premier League titles have they won?

And we are born not manufactured.

Phil @73:

Good point. In the modern era, which basically means Premier League and Champions League (ie, not going so far back in history as to include the 1st Division and European Cup), the centre of gravity of British football is in Manchester and London (Man Utd, City, Chelsea and Arsenal). The rest, including Liverpool, essentially have been making up the numbers.

Although in the modern era, Everton have been mediocre for ages, really speaking so have Liverpool. It's just that they've been less mediocre than us, but mediocre they have been nonetheless. Reds hate being told that, and I quite enjoy pointing it out to them. But only when they get nasty……