Premier League games this week

So Diaz makes the run, is clearly offside when the ball is played down the wing. seeking advantage in an offside position?

But of course it's Liverpool. Not even any VAR review.

Can see them thumping these by 4 or 5.

Michael, I think he was behind the ball when it was played.

Ray, I think Mike was referring to the first ball wide, Diaz was offside in the middle. I think that is allowed these days, even though it is very dubious whether it should be. Probably why there was no protest.

Kunal, yes Man Utd look like a very poor team at the moment. We can only hope for a highly unlikely improvement.

You're right Tony, but the argument would be that he ‘wasn't interfering with play'.

Really? 🤦🏼‍♂️
Shakes hepad…..

Tony hope your right and we put in atleast a competitive performance but sadly I think they will rip us to shreds.

The club aside they are a fantastic set of players. If they were playing for a Barcelona or a Real Madrid we'd be lauding them.

Anyone else notice the "Imagine being us" banner in the Kop? Scum.

Hatred and rivalry aside, they are a fantastic football team.

I think the key (if there is one) is matching or even managing their intensity and assertiveness early in matches. They are absolutely relentless in pursuit of that first goal, it gives them total control.

We have to work like hell to keep them out for that first half, as time rolls on desperation and mistakes could creep in and give us a chance of getting something.

Okay, I know! … I'm trying to be positive.

First goal, I thought Diaz was off but, through gritted teeth, I have to say the 2nd goal was sublime. Could be 5 or 6 here.

I see Mitrovic has chalked up his 40th goal of the season for Fulham.

Unplayable. I think the only tactic is to nobble their pre match meal.

The trots could be our only hope.

We really took it out of this Utd team. Still haven’t recovered ;-)

We need a plan for Thiago, that's for sure.

First goal and the United man in the centre tries to play Diaz offside, misjudges it and let’s him in. If that is not interfering with play by Diaz then I don’t know what is.

Watched the first half and can't take anymore.

These bastards won't lose another game this season, they seem to be getting better, faster, fitter.

I'll be behind the couch on Sunday.

Why do Liverpool players never suffer from fatigue?

No matter who they play, how many games they play or how little the likes of Origi, Minamini ect play, they all seem the same fitness wise and never tire.

I'm dreading the derby, I fear it could be a club record derby defeat to be honest.

Ffs talk about throwing the towel in before the bell's gone.

United showing more intensity this half. Frank needs to have us playing the same way on Sunday, we have to get in their faces and frustrate them.

Well I timed that last post well 🤪

We need to park the bus against them. Or hide the balls. Possibly hide the goalposts too.

Tomorrow is much more important for us than Sunday.

Good point, Jim @16. They have very remarkable energy and powers of recovery. Very remarkable.

There is the 4th..

Shite is destroying manure lol.

Liverpool rarely need any help to win their games but they are getting plenty off this woeful Man Utd eleven. I can't say 'team' because they are not playing remotely like one, not helping each other, passing then standing still...

I've never seen a Man Utd team as poor as this very weak side. The United fans were streaming out before the fourth goal went in. They were bad when they played us; they are worse tonight not giving Liverpool any sort of fight, no pride in themselves at all.

Congratulations to Marco Silva tonight. I'm sure it would have been wise giving him a bit more time. Could have saved some money too.

Prefer to forfeit Sunday, not turn up and give them the 3 points. It'll be similar to tonight if not worse.

"Why do Liverpool players never suffer from fatigue?... No matter who they play, how many games they play or how little the likes of Origi, Minamini etc play, they all seem the same fitness wise and never tire."

JIm, I'll have to inhale deeply and consider my thoughts on that. Asthma later what I think.

They’re a fantastic team. Mane’s pass for the second goal was incredible.

If we keep a clean sheet on Sunday I'll walk through my neighbours rose bush naked.

Objective analysis be damned, Liverpool FC are shite.

Jim, that's no big deal if the bush is below ball height.

What gets me is the amount of goals they continue to score season after season.

Decades of goalscoring strikers, and many Evertonians still talk about the 60s and Greame Sharp. Salah alone has scored more top flight goals in 5 years than Greame did in his entire Everton career.

Congrats to Marco Silva. He was the last managerial appointment I was really excited by, wonder what he might have done if he hadn’t been so let down by the clubs recruitment team. Or maybe he’s not cut out for the PL. We’ll have a better idea next season.

Aye, asthma and ADHD meds have some unpleasant side effects. But increased anaerobic capacity and reduced overall fatigue make a reasonable trade off.

Agree Sam, I think Silva got let down badly by Marcel Brands, at possibly the only time our DoF was in charge of recruitment. It's better than turning this thread into a Liverpool love fest, which is something that our neighbours absolutely crave.

Leicester is our most important game, let's beat them and let Liverpool worry about us going into Sunday's game with nothing to lose.

Sam

It’s a bit of a trend really, get sacked at Everton have success elsewhere.

Tony,

I hate to be the bratty “I'm taking my toys home and not playing,” but I'm worried about Sunday as I don't plan to watch. Just can't stomach it.

If we do beat Leicester though, and pass 30 points, it might be a psychological blow to Burnley. I'm focused on that one and the one after the one after.

Putting aside the "Liverpool-love-fest-crave" the last time we, Everton, were anywhere close to the physical fitness, ability and sheer heart of those various clubs who've since eclipsed us was a brief three/four year period just before Kenwright joined the board. In those three or four seasons we won two League championships, the FA Cup and the Cup Winners cup.

Moving on, we've made no progress at all. We are long since lacking in physical fitness, ability and sheer heart. Everyone has/can see it, for decades.

Still, anyone still having a scintilla of respect for the lying, self-serving, treacherous bastard still in no.10 will no doubt also extol the, erm "good times" our very own l/s-s/t b goes on about these days, whilst those in the real world are reduced to misery as we all worry like fuck about taking a point/points off a mid-table club with fuck all to play for - at home!

Good times? - my ARSE!

I love the Marco Silva love fest on here tonight.

Personally, I thought he was a good choice, but most others were saying that having taken over at Hull at the start of the year when they were 1-100 to be relegated, they still did so a failure.

He then went to Watford and after 5 points from 10 games was sacked there so obviously a serial loser.

After the vitriol he got when he signed and when he was sacked, then it is nice to see our memories of what we said are so short.

Phil (Kelsall) Roberts

I’ll own up and admit to being anti Silva. I didn’t like the fact he’d bounced around already good clubs and got in and got out within a year. Hull despite a promising start under him did get relegated. Watford got worse under him. Everton struggled, then recovered then got worse. I was happy when he was sacked. He’s done well at Fulham in a tough league. Maybe I was wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time.

I'm another Evertonian who never wanted Silva here and was very relieved when he was finally dismissed. When he left, we'd lost like 8from 11, won something like 19 games from 50-odd under him in the league and the players had clearly stopped listening. That 5-2 hiding at the hands of the neighbours will live long in my memory.

I also agree that Silva was let down by recruitment though, and it even seems likely now like Brands was more or less sabotaging him. I also think Silva has definite managerial talent, but I said it at the time. He wasn't the right man for us and it was definitely not the right time.

Eddie Howe brought a Bournemouth team up a few years ago that banged in goals for fun and this Silva-led Fulham group do remind me quite a bit of that version of the Cherries. There is one vital difference though - Howes Bournemouth team got goals from everywhere. Fulham are much more dependent on Mitrovic (who hit the fabled 4-goal mark in their last outing).

Mitrovic is going to the World Cup with Serbia as well. If he has a good tournament and seeks a move, god forbid gets hurt or is just flat out jaded from too much football when next season begins then it will be very difficult for the Cottagers I feel.

In the season they went down the usually prolific Serb could only find the net 3 times in 27 Premier League appearances. A form line anything like that and they'll likely be straight back down again.

Silva was touted back then as the next Pochettino or Mourinho, and perhaps he proves me wrong and goes on to success like those two. I still feel he's much more likely to end up as the next Villas-Boas – but time will tell.

Regardless though, the essence of my point remains. The man was never going to succeed here. And he didn't.

Don 38# Never mind, Boris did get you out of Europe though didn't he? That worked out well didn't it? All those Remainers, obviously idiots as its turned out so fabulously err.. dear Boris is a such a wonderful leader as long as you don't believe a word he says! Obviously doesn't understand that laws his party and obviously himself, pass in parliament, actually also apply to him! How inconvenient, just claim stupidity and all will be ok. Its only breaking a little law, again, and again...

Sorry, sarcasm is such a willing trait... I must refrain.

You know the derby has a habit of throwing up the occasional curve ball, flying high, doing no wrong, fabulous football, what could go wrong for them? Well a draw or a win would almost scupper their league aspirations...

I quite like that idea you know, after all, they expect us to be crap, expect a stroll in the park.. we have nothing to lose, reading the many posts on here I am surprised there is not an obituary in the echo for half of you!

Bottle and grit, luck and Calvert-Lewin to wake up.. if reports are true, Richarlison is in the shop window..what better way to sell himself.

It ain't over till the fat lady sings... First of all, Leicester, that's the big one.

I think the 5-2 defeat was followed by the kids beating us 1-0 the following month.. that was over two years ago, and the thing is, at least 7 of our same players are just as likely to face them again. So much for a huge and expensive squad!

There should have been a DNR notice on half our squad.

Call it insanity, but I have a funny feeling about this one...

They won't win on Sunday John Keating @15.

4 points in 5 days for Everton.

On the manager debate, to repeat my overarching view, I am increasingly of the opinion that the manager isn't the problem. Multiple incumbents have become the sacrificial lamb for the board being seen to do something and an excuse for underperforming players that are not good enough or don't have the standards we expect or were brought up on.

The fall guys for others' failures.

But, to give opinion on recent managers:

Moyes: A good appointment in the context of the time. Like his sponsor, bailed us out, got to a point, couldn't take us further and should have gone sooner if we were to build and progress.

Martinez: I didn't want it and was nervous as hell. Ate humble pie that first season but then my concerns came home to roost.

Koeman: Hands up. I was hoodwinked by my recollection of Koeman the player. The warning signs should have been there when he had to take some convincing to take the job. Never really seemed committed.

Silva: Similar concerns to the Martinez appointment, but a good coach in my opinion. But so was Colin Harvey. This is where the DoF model should take control, but ours wasn't allowed to and both suffered from continued interference.

Ancelotti: I guess we will never know. Realised quickly what he needed to do with the players at his disposal and almost got a European qualification out of them. Ran away as soon as he saw what was coming off the pitch.

But to my point. We've tried up and coming managers, progressive coaches and an established serial winner. Even someone I would rather not mention in the same breath as Everton Football Club but he is now forever on our history.

Are they all wrong or is the root cause somewhere else? I know my view. If we keep hiring, firing and blaming managers, we we still be having the same debate in 10 years time.

Nowhere on this thread do I see a Marco Silva love fest, but I’ve only read up to post 39. I see your point Phil, Silva was on a hiding to nothing in some quarters, and only speaking for myself, the only people I’ve ever had real vitriol for at Everton, are the saviour and Schniderlin. One for kidding the life out of people, and the other one for not having the energy, to even try and kid us.

Life is about experience, and Silva let himself down, by how he dealt with getting let down, imo, but he did try and play football on the front foot, something his predecessor knew just wasn’t possible, but Ancellotti also took a lot of stick for his tactics, and it’s been the same for Benitez and Lampard.

Everton need stability, so let’s just hope that Frank Lampard is the man that can give it to us🙏

Christine (42),Why did you stop talking about Dickhead halfway through your post, I was really enjoying that!!

Anyway after tonight’s three points, hopefully, we can start thinking about the Derby game and as you say strange results have happened in these games so why not on Sunday?

As long as we don’t go into the game with the same frame of mind as the Spurs game where we played like headless and hopeless chickens but play a sensible defensive game with the occasional brave breakout attack it’s possible to get something from this game, a point would be great to add to our total and only one to Liverpool’s would really be like a victory to us.

Danny, I just don't think it's that binary. Too often it gets boiled down to "It's the manager" or "It's the players". The reason we're in the shit this season is that, in our case, it's sadly both.

We've had the wrong guy in the manager's chair time after time. And we've recruited the wrong players at – sadly – incredibly wasteful amounts.

I alluded to in my summation of Silva. More than one reason for this mess; multiple things can be unravelling at the same time.

Dave, I get into trouble if I show any political preference in here, where I come from you have little choice as to were your allegiance lie and rightly so. Sadly neither party in the UK are inspiring enough to get themselves out of the God awful mess that Boris and Dear Nigel the nutter, Mogg, who makes Oswald Mosely look like a sensible alternative, and Cambridge Analytics who perverted the course of truth so well...
The worst is yet to come I fear for the UK, once the actual impact of war, pestilence and electoral stupidity sink in.
Aw hell.. I promised myself I wouldn't fall into the pit of political despair.. it's bad enough watching the blues from 14000 miles away, I think I've forgotten where home is anymore!
Back to the footy..
All we have to do is stop the opposition from playing, sorry if that sounds cynical, right now I wish we had a few dogs of War. I would settle for that to get us over the line. Leicester have a poor away record, I think Europe is their focus so hopefully with their injuries and resting a few, we can make it count. Right, the other lot at the weekend. There is a saying, pride comes before a fall..these (insert your own expletive) are so arrogant that they think it will be easy. I think we will get something out of them that dents that pride and could end their hopes of the title. Yerry back, DCL is due a goal, Richarlison deserves one..
Deep and break..in their faces...

I wish I was tech savvy, but unfortunately I’m not, so therefore I can’t get an article I've just read on the guardian website onto these pages, about the Russian tycoon Tinkov, basically telling everyone how he feels.

The Generals are waking up with a hangover and a realization that they have a shit army, but how can you expect anything different, when the whole country is shit, because it’s entrenched in nepotism and sycophancy, is how he’s describing Russia, and something that rings a lot of bells when I think about what Everton, have become.

Christine (48), yes I understand why you leave politics out of it on ToffeeWeb but Johnson stands out as being the worse sort of a man, who was told yesterday by one of his MP’s that he is just not fit for office, this MP was letting his conscience be the judge of Johnson’s performance as a Prime Minister, I hope the rest vote the same way on Thursday,

But back to Everton and I don’t really care, at the moment, how they perform as long as they get enough points, legitimately, to keep us in the premier league and then get the whole club sorted out so they are run in a professional way and we can start repairing the damage that has been done over too long a period and we can once again go and watch them with pride instead of fear and anxiety which now prevails as we watch them.

Best wishes Christine hope you are okay health wise and have a big smile on your face and a large scotch in your hand after the game tonight.

Great point Tony. I think you can draw a lot of parallels between our dysfunction and theirs.

Tony

It’s a bit harsh comparing Russia to Everton. There are some positives about Russia.

That there is something, anything, positive about Russia can be taken as a fundamental fact in that it is pulled from one's buttocks.

Come Saints, stick it to the Pope!

Oreo Romeau, free header... should be 1-0 to The Saints.

Shit.

Southampton should've been 2 up. Now Burnley are 1 up.

We've lost way too many points to the bottom 6 this season. That's what'll kill us.

Bollocks, early days though.

Great goal though. Real quality.

Cracking game for the neutrals thus far.

Shame I'm not neutral.

Fuckin' Burnley!!

Fuck me... Southampton doing our Keystone Kops routine.

Burnley make errors like us but are much better going forward than we are. This is looking ominous.

I'm still trying to comprehend that we are in a shoot out with fucking Burnley for Premier League survival.

Fucking Burnley!!!

As long as it's only the single goal, there's life here, I feel.

Burnley's effort and desire is visibly light years ahead of us though.

Come on, The Saints.

A neutral would say Burnley are more deserving of a Premier League place than we are.

How is it not 2-0?

Daniel, as I stated on another thread, Burnley have betters defenders (we bought the weak one off them) possibly a better keeper and certainly with Weghosrt and Cornet a real threat upfront. I dunno, but will Everton be the highest wage bill to get relegated in the uk?

News flash to blues who look down their nose at Burnley we are no better or worse than them. Same level of player and they have a kinder run in.

Southampton players on their holidays. We’re going to need 3 wins from Palace, Brentford and Watford. It’s looking grim.

Whisker from 2-0, amazing save then off the post

Michael:

"A neutral would say Burnley are more deserving of a Premier League place than we are."

On what basis, Michael?

That foghorn Wiegorst fella for Burnley is as clinical as Richarlison. Both very average.

Maybe because they're battering these and rolled us in a 6-pointer, Brent?

Because the effort and desire are light years ahead of our display yesterday – and Leicester showed even less energy than these Saints?

Because they've not spent half a billion quid to end up in a dogfight?

Because they've lost four less league games, conceded eight less goals and have a better away record?

Just thinking like a neutral.

Romeo doing a Richie with the misses.

Last night's showing was disgraceful. When we lost an important game, there used to be 300+ posts cathartically lamenting the loss. Barely a third of that on the matchday thread from yesterday... TWebber's have given up as well.

Watching Southampton is as close to supporting Everton as it gets tonight, another sitter missed by Oreo Romeau, unbelievable.

So a neutral would also conclude that Dyche deserves to be in the Premier League more than Frank, eh?

Derek, I see those points but on the season overall we "out-point" them (marginally!) and Burnley have played a lot of dire stuff over the course of the season.

Fuckin' Romeau! Missed another.

What Derek @73 says, Brent.

True that Paul (#75), a lot less lads bothering these days. Hard to blame them, we've been outright dreck for quite a while now.

If Burnley don't get a second before half-time, then maybe the nerves will get to them in latter stages?

Saints have created chances, let's hope they take one.

Not good for me at the moment, my wife is from Burnley (no jokes, please, and yes, she does look like an attractive woman). But yes, she's a Burnley fan.

It's sad, Derek, and worrying.

I'm no neutral but, on the basis of showing some guts and urgency, spirit and fight, then I'd have to say we deserve the drop more than them.

Worst case scenario will be if we are one or two points ahead of Burnley going into the final weekend, given they play Newcastle at home and we are at the Emirates to face Arsenal.

Tell the truth, I'm shitting myself.

Maybe Burnley are getting what Everton never got and that is a different manager reaction.

2-0 That's it.

Have to secure survival before the Emirates, Jim. Our away form is non existent. It's Goodison or goodnight.

They have battered these like a piece of cod from the chippy. It's 2-0, should be even more.

It's brown undies time.

No way in this planet will we win at Arsenal or against any half-decent team. Don't count the no-fans Covid away wins that just wouldn't've happened.

Foul?

2-0... bollox.

Fat lady is singing whilst sat on our chest.

Our crucial run is Watford, Brentford, Palace. We need 9 points from those 3 games plus maybe a point from somewhere else – Chelsea home or Leicester away maybe? That would get us to 39 points.

I'm running out of straws to clutch at.

Them wall pushing shiesters will have their blue coffin ready again Sunday

I remain convinced that awful Burnley result will come back to haunt us!

Burnley's next 3 games are very winnable. I can see us getting no more than a win against Chelsea in our next 3. Very worrying times.

We all knew that Burnley away was likely to be the decider. Avoiding defeat was key and we couldn't do it.

The VAR is not our friend – big surprise there!

The VAR looking at the wrong angle? The previous shot looked like it came off the player in the offside position….maybe I'm just imagining it. Also looked like a foul on the defender, that wasn't checked at all?

First Premier League goal of the season and a beauty for a right back on his weak foot.

And rather than focus on the foul, the officials look at whether it was offside because it might have the thread of a pair of shorts.

Can't say they don't deserve it.

Even through the 70s, when the RS were superior, we always had a chance of getting a draw at the pit. Now I don't see how we keep it below 3-0 on Sunday. Depressing times are desperately upon us.

Burnley winning 2-0 at half-time.

I'd say Burnley are going to end up on 36 or 37 points and Leeds 37 or 38.

I can't complain about the VAR, although it's shite. They have snotted these south-coast wasters properly.

Add the the fact our goal difference will be worse than Burnley at the end of the season too, I'm starting to feel that resignation feeling again sadly.

That's what happens when we don't collect points from our easy games and rely on other teams to do us a favor! We are just abysmal!!!

Really thought the VAR would overturn that with the hands on Ward-Prowse but the force is with them at the moment.

Contrast between that first half and ours yesterday says it all. We were both playing teams on the beach – the Burnley lads kicked sand in Saints faces. Our lads rolled out a towel and laid down next to Leicester.

Very rarely works out when you rely on other teams. It did in 1997 but that just wasn't our time. Feels different now.

Why would any mid-table club want to do us a favour anyway? Better for their chances of staying up next season if we go and Burnley don't, I would have thought.

Romeu doing a "Richarlison". 2 sitters. Southampton are shocking.

Drinks and snacks on 40 minutes. 5 mins to half time. What is the world coming to?

Money for the higher finishing position, Kevin?

Brian - both times we've survived last day we've had to rely on other results. Even the Wimbledon win would have been fruitless if other sides had won that day as we were in the relegation zone going into the game.

Last night was a must win – at home against a side with a poor away record. We blew it.

It was always going to bumpy. We still have one final lifeline, but let's be brutally honest – if you cant take many points from Leicester away, Brentford and Palace home, all with there flip-flops on due to securing mid-table, and Watford away who look doomed already, then we deserve to be in the Championship.

The sad thing for us is that our future seems to be out of our hands, we are relying on those around us to perform badly.

Burnley are beginning to surge, we need to do the same.

I posted this yesterday on the live forum.

Next four games will make for a close finish, I can see us getting max 2 points from the next four, I think Burnley will get 6 points from their next 4 games. Going to the wire this.

Looks like they are halfway there. We will get battered on Sunday and by the end of next weekend be in the Bottom 3. What the fuck has happened to our once-great club?

Simon, not watching the game. Assume the stop in play is for players observing Ramadan to break fast. Doucouré did it the other week.

Maybe, Derek, but most players with not much to play for I would think, don't want to go into the summer break with an injury that might have them on crutches for a couple of months.

This is still in our own hands but those hands are as reliable as Hans Segars!

Those last day survivals were in '94 & '98, Chris. Brian's talking about '97.

I wouldn't be so sure about Watford, Kumal. They have to play us and Burnley at home. We could end up second bottom if we don't wake up.

Bookies agree we're in the shit. Without kicking a ball we've gone from 2/9 to 8/5 for the drop based on Burnley's first half here alone.

I'm slowly accepting the demise under the Kenwright years (decades) enjoying all these "Good Times" is well and truely coming to an end. Our local rivalry will be with Preston next season. To think he turned away Sheikh Mansour!

Yes, Ian - it was because of Ramadan.

Collins gets his height to score by pushing down on Ward-Prowse's shoulders, what is the VAR doing looking at an offside decision? Why not look at the clear foul?

Leeds have a horrible run of games coming up. We need to catch them, cos this Burnley side is showing itself more than capable of avoiding relegation.

I feel that we're more likely to go down than stay up at this point. What a fucking season. Still, it ain't over til it's over.

Thanks, Ian @121. It's just the timing. 5 mins to half-time? Surely they could wait.

Getting my numbers mixed up. Liverpool are 2/9 to beat us. We've gone from 5/2 into 8/5.

That miss by Richarlison in the first half yesterday will come back to haunt us. That was a miss of a Sunday league player, even barn door Barlow would have scored that.

Would have been a different second half imo.

Hi Derek,

Those odds indicate a reduction in the likelihood that we'll go down as far as I can see. (Based on post 125.)

But our eyes see a different outcome here.

Leeds fixtures are virtually the same as ours though. We need to win some games. We need to get some points away from the lady.

Kevin @132, think back to August, Calvert-Lewin missing 2 sitters vs Leeds and Davies in September not having a shot for the winner and passing to Mina in an offside position. It's been all season. Those 2 games alone was 4 points lost.

Burnley have three games after tonight in the same timeframe we have two. Theirs are home to Villa and Wolves and away at Watford.

Obviously after tonight, they are a point behind us with a better goal difference. I can see them getting 7-9 points in those three. Meaning if we don't beat either of Chelsea and Liverpool, we could be 8 or more points adrift by the time we play Leicester.

Right now I only have flipancy to offer.

Burnley player of the match so far is Southampton's right back, the number 43. Consistently dreadful.

Everton's player of the weeks so far is Forrester. Not for this, this would be even more out of sight than it already seems to be.

Richarlison and Gray, our best players, have regressed big time. A while ago, no way he would've missed that header and not sorted his feet out. Gray a shadow of what he was at the beginning. All a perfect storm. Good times... you can stick 'em.

Joe @136,

Yes agree we've missed sitters all season, but at the time we never thought they would be that significant. Last night's is fresh in everyone's mind and it was as bad a miss as I've seen for some time.

I think we are firmly fucked now. We have Liverpool, Chelsea and Leicester in our next 3 games and can easily see Burnley 4 points ahead of us by then with no fight in our team. Oh and we've got to play 5 matches in 15 days. We've got strikers who can't score/play, midfield with no creativity, and a defence that leaks goals.

Although I feared this early on in the Benitez reign and called out the unmitigated disaster he was for our club, I truly never believed we would go down.

Losing at Burnley and games like last night where we couldn't get 3 points to pull us out of trouble have cemented our likely status as a Championship club next season.

Kevin, Barlow seemed to score the instinctive chances, it was the many chances he had that he had time to think he missed!

A totally shite Burnley showing us how to win a fucking match – they beat us, should have beat West Ham – it's really not looking good folks is it!

Lampard should be out playing the mind games with Southampton before this match – like we hope Southampton show the effort Leicester did with us!

Is it the experience of a relegation battle? Burnley have played with energy, desire, passion and no little skill. They're trying to get more here as well.

Can't help thinking if we had gone a goal up yesterday would have tried to just sit on the lead and then conceded ourselves late on?

We always look scared. Burnley just look motivated. It's bizarre.

Betfair exchange has Burnley 1.71 to go down, Everton 2.60

Not much in it but people who are putting their money where their mouth is still think we’ll scrape home.

We were 5/2 though - 3.50 - before this game started Tony.

I stand to lose a fuckload if we go down.

2.6 (13/8) looks good value imo.

Kieran @137 Sobering, but realistic. We seem to be assuming we can beat Watford, Brentford and Palace to stay up, but I doubt we'll get more than 4-6 points from those games, possibly less the way we've been playing. But I can see Burnley taking 10-12 points from Soton, Wolves, Watford and Villa.

It's a fucking nightmare.

They say there are no easy matches in the top flight, it'll be true next season if we're relegated!

Dennis, that is genuinely funny mate. No humour like scouse humour, even now I really miss it. Kiwis are great, lovely people but don't get the scouse sense of humour at all.

Off his arm?

Dennis 150,

Lol too true

Delph coming on...

Handball and offside. Take your pick.

We have to fear the worst now I'm afraid. Burnley have momentum. We have Liverpool, Chelsea, Leicester.

What a poor team we are. We deserve nothing from this season. Can't believe it. We're probably going down.

Another 6-yard sitter missed!

The way it's going for Everton, I see must-win games v Brentford, Watford, Palace, and at least a draw with Leicester, and Chelsea.

Miracles can happen, big surprises do happen in football, but let's see one this Sunday, and not having to go to Arsenal for a must-win game, to stay up.

Burnley are showing urgency and hustle. Last night when the ball went out of play, our lads walked over to get the ball – not ran. Burnley know what effort you have to put in in this situation. Run more, scrap more, sweat more.

Burnley have players with experience of staying up. I may be wrong but I think we have more players in our team with the experience of relegation than they do and that may count a lot.

I don't see us staying up. Sorry, but with the games to come and our frailties just not seeing it.

Burnley playing the "injury in penalty box so stop the game". Shocking.

Nothing like gamesmanship, Brent.

Feigning injury, knowing it will stop the game.

Some may approve. I don't.

It is starting to look like our major opponents next year will Watford and Norwich. Let that sink in – we are on the same level as them.

Ray, yes Pickford and Keane have both been relegated from the Premier League previously. It's a club in demise, the 27 years will go on for many years longer.

I wonder what the odds are for Aston Villa to go down? They're on a terrible run of form, although it's hard to imagine them being caught by 3 teams.

We are stuffed, I'm afraid. Mismanagement throughout the club has landed us here.

Burnley have shown way more fight than we did against Leicester! It's not all been Lampard's fault but I'm sure we would've been in a better position if big Dunc was given the job until the end of the season.

Well the players simply now need to grow a pair, and start fighting in every game. You can bet Burnley will. It will probably be us or Leeds that go down.

It's almost like every football match you watch turns to shite. The opposite happens to what I want about 90% of the time!

We keep sayin' for months "we can win this game, we need to perform, that team is there for taking and so on" but one thing remains the same. That is the team and the coaching staff are under performing and letting us down repeatedly!

No desire to win, no intensity, no cohesion in performances and I also think we are going backwards week after week!

Tell you what, there are some right bottlers on here. We're not down til we're down. If you think it, fine, but keep it to yourself.

Defeatism is part of what's got us where we are. Can't be doing with it.

We have got to stay positive. Just believe.

Burnley will now play teams with something to play for. Southampton have just rolled over.

We will not be in the Bottom 3 this weekend. Let's take it from there.

They say it's the hope that kills you.

Not anymore... I honestly don't give a shit now.
I've followed this club all over Europe and had.
Bottles of piss thrown at me
Been beaten black and blue
Had 2 knives pulled on me
Hitchhike'd around the country
Been abused by police
And actually had a fire extinguisher thrown at me on a London tube escalator.

No more do I care. I'm done with them.

Can't rule out Leeds getting sucked in, especially if they lose on Monday away to Crystal Palace.

We're not down yet by a long chalk. Dingles the ugliest team ever. Blatant cheats with the head injury scam.

Leeds have tough fixtures, may only get 2 more points.

Brian, have you watched us this season? I only ask because we have been totally crap. And I can't see it suddenly getting better.

Mike, if Burnley beat or draw against Wolves, and we lose to Liverpool – we are in the Bottom 3.

My assumption is that will happen, it's whether we have to strength to get out.

Leeds basically have the same run in. Arsenal, Chelsea.

They play City. We play the red hot shite.

They have demonstrated some away form. Ours has completely gone.

They've ten points from the last twelve. Two away wins in there. We have one all season.

Leeds are over the hill and far away IMO.

Really starting to worry now but we need to accept it could happen and if it does then we really can't complain. We've been awful, woeful, dreadful, shocking – whatever you want to describe but we deserve to go down.

I, like many, will be heartbroken, it's out of our hand… but there's just no fight.

Brian

bottler (plural: bottlers)

(Australia, New Zealand, slang, often with "real") a person or thing that is excellent or admirable.

Cheers matey! :)

The decision to let Dyche go is paying off. They are playing a higher line, and it's working.

Leeds letting Bielsa go has also paid off. I can't say Howe, as his arrival was at the same time as the millions.

We've had no change with Frank and his experienced team. Unfortunately, it's key injuries and low quality of our squad. We have no proven goalscoring striker and haven't had since Lukaku left 5 years ago... for fuck's sake, how?

Dave @ 177,

Similar experiences for me back in the day, but I caught the fire extinguisher in my teeth and spat it back at the bastards.

No bounce from Frank because he, wait for it, bottled it. A real bottler when we needed a battler.

A higher line. If only Joe.

Our collection of all sorts are afraid to play a high line.

Our collection of managers have either errors been afraid or realised quickly it's not a good idea.

Brian, I am no bottler and I take offence at that, but I am also not a fantasist as you appear to be.

We are shite and in freefall, the new manager is worse than the previous one and the club is amateurish at best with a clueless owner who has wasted millions of pounds on poor managers and players.

I see no positives at present and only a fraught future.

Brian #175, spot on, I can't understand why people are saying it's out of our hands and we are relying on others' results? We have a point advantage and a game in hand so it is very much in our own hands.

Every game in this league is difficult and every one is also winnable, Freak results happen.

We need to stay positive and believe.

UTFT

We are not down and are not in the Bottom 3. Yet. Let's see what the weekend throws up in terms of this unpredictable season and beautiful game of ours that keeps us hooked.

Okay, we will win at Anfield.

There, everything is better now.

Brian, fans posting on a fans forum don't bootle it. Players do.

We've got a mullering in hand, not a game in hand.

Being realistic - we beat them last year at Mordor. They owe us one back. Plus Saint VVD vs Jordan.

They're the best team in England and need the points for the title. They're in great form, and have few if any injuries.

The goons they call fans will be desperate to see us go down. And Kloppity is a crowd pleaser.

And Klopp will tell them - this might be the last derby our fans get for years. Last chance to get bragging rights for perhaps a long time. Make sure it's a memorable one for our supporters. Make sure we muller these.

Let's face it, we are not in the Bottom 3 but this moment in time we are the team with the least ability to cope. We are sunk and that is solely down to failures across the board.

We are desperately hoping Leeds will come into play with regards going down; I don't think we will even catch up to them.

Yesterday said it all, most important game of the season so far and we concede before the crowd has even settled into the match. That was farcical.

Failure is engraved into the first-team set-up and the rest of the club. Burnley will overrun us with ease.

Think what you want but, based on our performances and the remaining fixtures, this team is going down unless somehow "magically" they transform to a decent team overnight!!!

I can't see Lampard pulling this off as he neither has the experience nor the tactical knowledge to get us out of this horrible situation.

Why oh why did we hire him when we needed someone experienced instead, only god knows.

If (not bottling it like) we go down, it will be like the 80s. Coventry City, QPR, Forest, Watford, Norwich, West Brom, Birmingham, possibly Sheff Wed, MK Dons or Sunderland. All the old favorites.

Ray #192, that’s more like it 😁

Someone said last week that, after the Top 3, there's not much between the teams down to 18th. Anyone can beat anyone any time.

Yesterday, although we were poor, we were a complete sitter of the season away from a win. We've cut out the catastrophic mistakes, now we just have to convert the dead cert chances.

Rondon has to play centre-forward whilst Calvert-Lewin is injured or out of form. Richarlison back on the left, Gordon on the right. It's surprising to say it but it gives us the best chance?

Burnley played much better today than we did yesterday. We will be staring at relegation unless something unexpected happens this weekend. Kenwright has so much to answer for.

I will be really surprised if this Everton side can get anything from our next three matches.

Burnley will beat Wolves in my opinion, they can beat Watford and they can beat Aston Villa.

Sorry lads, but I think we are fucked, I really do – we need miracles!

If you think Frank's face was ashen in shock 2 weeks ago, he will be transparent Sunday night. They are gonna go to town on us, and their lovely fans will taunt like maniacs.

I'm with Ray, what have we seen not just this season but for years that tells it is any different?

Brian # 175. Totally agree with you, though some people clearly don’t understand what you mean.

Lampard is a fine weather manager; if he was going to turn things around, he would have done it by now. The difference he makes is minuscule with regards to results.

We've had the Goodison debacle derby; now for the ultimate nightmare season with the RS embarrassing us on Sunday, sending us into the Bottom 3 and, by the end of the season, they will have won everything and we will be relegated and the equivalent to Birmingham City, nobodies.

Well we are about to find out how good a manager Frank is, and how the players really feel about the shirt they put on there back. Burnley could quite easily win the next 2 out of 3 games, and they have momentum and a sniff one point behind.

We could easily get smashed in the next two games, we are playing a team who are going toe-to-toe with Man City for the title and can't afford to lose, then a team who are fighting for 4th place.

In the next couple of weeks, we could looking at 2nd or 3rd to bottom with Burnley 5 points ahead, with all the pressure on Everton – and we all know how this team copes with pressure.

Why is everyone saying we are doomed and have no fight etc? Burnley have for 4 points from their last 2 games.

Guess what? We have 4 points from our last 2 games too. Burnely have winnable games left.

Guess what? We have winnable games left too.

We aren't down and we aren't doomed. Our fate is still in our own hands.

Not great for us tonight but it’s still not a done deal. Loads of games left and you never know. We will lose on Sunday but I fancy Wolves to get a result before then. They’ve still got something to play for, Southampton didn’t tonight.

Am predicting Burnley lose against Wolves and we lose on Sunday so still a point ahead with one round of games less to play. I think we’ll get a point from the Chelsea game but that’s after Watford play Burnley, which I can’t call, depends what Watford team turn up but assuming it’s a draw (suits neither side) we’ll still be 17th with even less games left.

Villa are dropping like a stone, 4 losses on the trot but Leeds are on the up, 10 points from their last 4.

It’s going to be tight but I think we’ve still got a shot. Got to keep the faith. Sundays game is a write off for me, got to take something from Chelsea.

End of the day, we’ve still got 7 games left! Certainly not over. 3 wins puts us on 38 points - that’s enough.

We know what type of manager Frank is: plain old average, not up to the fight.

Basically, this team is about to become shell-shocked and, let's face it, as soon as the fans realise and concede that relegation is inevitable, that will just give them reason enough to stop trying.

These lazy, pathetic players are just waiting for the excuse to give up the fight. It has been a slow, painful death of a season but hey, every cloud, these shithouses on the board will try and bring Rooney in thinking it will appease the fans.

Richarlison's miss was as bad as Imre Varadi's miss many moons ago.

That's 2 points lost there in my eyes but the biggest turning point was when we are 2-1 up at Burnley and he fails to hit the target to make it 3-1.

For all of his running around and the odd goal here and there, he is letting us down more than any player or manager. Our best players are average at best with no true grit in them.

Chris,

Why people are predicting doom, is because the games we need the points from are the away games – and they are something we don't even get a point from.

We will still be one point in front Sunday night. Wolves are a very different proposition to Givuphampton and will beat Burnley. Liverpool are due a defeat too; I never thought we'd win there last season, so you never know.

Long way to go, be positive and do you know something? It really is only a game. Still be games next season, come what may, and Everton are still my team, so I'll still be a Blue.

Obviously still loads of points to play for but that result was awful tonight.

Not just the 3 points but the momentum it can give them.

We were 12/5 to go down this morning. Now we're 6/4.

Everything seems to point to doom at the weekend - but as ever, it's never quite everything. Make no mistake, Klopp and the gang will not be swanning around like it's a foregone conclusion.

They have the potential to tear us apart - but they have their own pressures. One slip and their title dream could be all over. All those "Fans" at Anfield thinking the quadruple is theirs, the players will be feeling it.

They need to feel like they are running the show and that we are scared. So we need to stand up, hard, strong and committed, and battle them. It's not over yet. As Allan said, they're due a defeat. Maybe it will be Everton that gives it to them...

We're a point ahead with a game in hand. No reason to be defeatist.

The Man Utd game textbook example of how to play into Liverpool's hands with half hearted press, letting runners go, losing defensive shape and playing the ball along the deck into the opposition press zone.

Keep the structure, leave no space behind and play balls over the top of the press. Be boring and do it well.

I agree, Robert. No time for "Ideas", just solidity and commitment. A team performance. I have to say, something along the lines of Burnley tonight, in terms of the belief.

Kieran Kinsella @ 197

Oh Kieran!

You've got me floating off to a far off wonderful place where I can see Le Coq Sportif kits, all conquering teams and and a crowd in ecstasy (and this was before those little happy pills became available).

Liverpool L
Chelsea L
Leicester D
Watford W
Brentford W
Palace D
Arsenal L

37 points. Burnley will need at least 9 points from 6 games to stay up if so. Leeds are not out of this yet with their run in and goal difference (-30).

Reason to believe yet with 7 games to play in my opinion!

I play the "imagine we get, they get" game. But I just don't know. None of us does. The agony of waiting, waiting and not knowing. It's cruel. I want every game to be now, not in so many days. Like a kid at xmas but fearing the worst not the best.

Burnley play Villa twice, there's no way Slippy G will want to do us any favours.

Everton need to take 9 points from the last three home games to stand a chance.

My biggest concern is too many of our players still don't seem to fully appreciate the shit we are in.

Lampard has done as much as he can, he's put passion into it and it's shown in his physical appearance.

There's no way any other manager would have really got this crop of players to do much else, calls for Ferguson are premature, think back to the home game against mid-table Aston Villa, it was a dire showing.

It's on these players now to sort this shite.

I agree Jim, the three home games – Chelsea, Brentford and Crystal Palace – have now become essential. Two out of three with a Chelsea draw may suffice, but with 4 points from Leicester and Watford away.

My gut feeling is it's going to the last day, we will need at least a point at Arsenal away to stay up.

Tell you what, it seems that the everyone is rooting for Burnley over us – BBC news this morning making a big deal out of their result of last night and what the club means to them, blah blah...

This has been coming. I think we were this bad last season, the performances at home to Fulham, Newcastle, Sheff Utd, Burnley etc were much worse.

It may be a silly thing to say but we got a lot of undeserved wins away from home last season (Arsenal, Leeds, Leicester, Wolves, West Ham). Take those points away and you have a similar position with worse performances; then take away Sigurdsson, Digne, James and Calvert-Lewin and is it any surprise?

I think we're gone, I think we're fortunate to even have the points tally we have at the moment. It's a shame because I believe Frank and his coaching staff would actually sort this squad out in the summer.

Glad to see that many fans on here have not given up on the Blues chances of staying up and I’m one of them, other fans seemed to accept we are already down, it’s like “ Heartbreak Hotel” on this thread but each to his own.

Hard to believe but I’m going for a 1-1 tonic draw on Sunday.

Dave, I'm with you. I will never give up until the Premier League table tells me otherwise. I firmly believe we can win the last three home games, Watford away and a draw at Leicester.

42 points, might look a long way off at the moment, but definitely do-able. 42 points for us means Burnley need to win 5 from 6 games.

It's never over until the fat lady sings…

Let's just remember we are a point above Burnley with a game in hand and, irrespective of their result against Wolves, it will still be in our own hands.

I expected them to win last night, so wasn't shocked to find that they had. Look, we would all love it if they and Leeds, who are still in this relegation fight, lost all their remaining games but that won't happen.

I don't know if we will stay up but I am not giving up till it's mathematically definite. I know these are really stressful times but all we can do as fans is do what we always do, especially in a crisis, which is back the team 100% as we have been doing.

The time for recriminations is at the end of the season – not now; we need the whole club pulling in the same direction, which we will.

I'm glad loads of us are still positive. After reading some of the comments (because Burnley won, and not even because Everton lost) I'm definitely thinking of opening a hotel called ToffeeWeb and, with all the towels being thrown in, the Germans won't even have to get up early to reserve a sunbed by the fucking pool.

Wolves have only beaten Burnley once in their last 11 encounters, and we've only beaten the RS once in the last 25.

So I don't think it's unreasonable to say that it's highly likely we'll be in the Bottom 3 by the end of the weekend, even if you're the most gung-ho optimist.

The question now is whether our team has the bottle to get out of the Bottom 3. I thought we looked nervous and brittle on Wednesday night – as we have done in most games recently – which doesn't bode well.

Tony #226 - cracker! And agreed.

In '94 and '98, I never doubted we would stay up, not because we had great players – we didn't but they never gave up. In games, you could see them putting that extra effort in. This lot are totally the opposite. Give-in merchants. I have no faith whatsoever in them.

Tony, nice one.

I certainly won't throw the towel in on the Sunday coming German manager.

I also think we must support, support and support to the bitter end – this team needs every bit of wind under its wings we can manage.

The fish rots from the head and rather than arguing with ourselves on TW and seeing disparaging remarks against other posters, we need to save our collective ire for those responsible for the club's long-term decline over three decades once the season ends.

Paul H,

They didn't give in against Newcastle after going down to 10 men and managed to score the winner in the 99th minute.

They didn't give in against Leicester and managed to score the equaliser in the 92nd minute.

They didn't give in against Man City and were very unfortunate not to get a draw but for the worst piece of officiating this season in any Premier League game.

There are some signs that not all is lost and there is still a little bit of fight in these players.

There are lots of comments on here about our predicament, but ultimately we've got polarisation between people who refuse to accept/believe that we're going down and those people for whom the spectre of relegation has taken up permanent residence in their everyday lives.

Cards on the table, I'm definitely in the latter camp. There are a number of reasons for this, and before I slip into the firing line I'm using the following logic to come to this decision.

The whole 'it's in our hands' philosophy is a bit of a dichotomy, because we – as supporters – can only try to influence proceedings with noise and encouragement from the terraces. Ultimately, it's the manager, his tactics and the 11 men on the pitch who represent us that can decide our fate. We've had little evidence that this bodes well for us all season, and the performances since Lampard's arrival have been largely gutless and fruitless.

Burnley's performance last night was bold, coherent and energetic from start to finish. I don't think the quality available to them is anywhere as near as good as our squad, but in the dying embers of a relegation-threatened season, effort is the foundation and skill is a luxury. We don't have enough players with the correct mindset to give us a platform in a game and to keep going until the final whistle.

Turning up for 20 or 30 minutes of the full 90 is not an option any more. I accept that we've scrambled a point or two in extra time recently, but this was on the back of largely inept performances in the 90 minutes preceding the crucial goals.

Finally, there's the run-in for both us and Burnley. There's no debate about the difficulties both us and Burnley face here. A quick calculation tells me we've got 7 teams left to play who average nearly 45 points each so far this season. The 5 teams left to Burnley average nearly 37 points each. This is stark and significant when presented in black and white.

So these are the 3 reasons why I wake up in the night with a horrible feeling of impending doom. I don't class myself as a loser who has thrown in the towel, or someone who thinks relegation will be good for us in the long run (because it definitely won't, as we would struggle in the Championship and could face years in the wilderness with the 'leadership' available to us).

But ultimately, too many people wearing blue shirts on the pitch aren't good enough to play for the club. Either physically or mentally. And they're the people who decide where our club sits after the Arsenal game in one month's time.

We have to fight to the end. Going a goal down, then fight harder for a point. Plenty of teams can frustrate better teams through work rate, determination, organisation and a bit of luck.

Liverpool want us to turn up full of fear and roll over because of it. Don't allow that. We have to go there with no fear at all, focus and work hard from the first whistle.

It ultimately may not be good enough but so what, be committed, professional and make it as hard as possible for them. The football gods may just smile on us.

Chris @232. Fair enough but that just 3 games out of 31.

Paul Jones, think I gave myself whiplash nodding along to every word you wrote.

Great post. Fair, balanced, factual, honest and entirely correct.

Earlier this season I watched Sheriff Tiraspol – Champions League group stage rookies located in a largely unrecognized country within Moldova – go to the mighty Bernabeu and roll Carlo Ancelotti's Real Madrid.

Application, luck and belief can take you a long way in football. It's a big part of why we love it.

The time for this group of players to find a similar formula is right now. If the Transnistrians can shock the world, then Everton can shock Liverpool. It seems so unlikely from here, it's impossible. But it's only truly impossible when the players decide it's impossible. Effort and self-belief. That's all. The luck we will need may not come; that may be the difference.
I'd be satisfied with that.

Give light and the darkness will disappear of itself.

Unfortunately, I didn't fancy us to stay up before last night's Burnley result, so I definitely don't now.

Before anyone calls me a defeatest, I admit I am a born pessimist but' looking at the games we have to play compared to Burnley's, and it doesn't make good reading. My opinion doesn't change what will happen in any case!

The betting odds still have Burnley favourite to go down before us which has me scratching my head somewhat.

We badly need some lucky breaks, something we haven't had all season. Hope springs eternal so you never know.

Rob @ 224 and ZTony @ 226, cracking comments. Christ, there are some bottle jobs on here.

We've picked up 4 points from 6 in the last 2 games in case you haven't noticed.

I fancied Burnley to beat Southampton, but Wolves will be a different matter. We are both playing Watford away while our home games are winnable (our recent results at home have been okay). I also don't think Burnley will win any of their last 3 games.

If I was to put down a bet, I would wager that Everton and Burnley to finish above Leeds.