13/09/2023 83comments  |  Jump to last

It has been confirmed that MSP Sports Capital have provided over £100 million in loans to Everton Stadium Development Holding Company, abating concerns about the funding of the next phase of construction at Bramley-Moore Dock.

MSP were rumoured to be in talks for part ownership of Everton, even to the extent of securing places on the Board of Directors, but these plans were reportedly opposed by Rights and Media Funding, due to existing clauses in their outstanding loans to the club.

This development can be seen as fulfilment of the filing made by MSP Sports Capital with the US Securities and Exchange Commission back in June. regarding the raising $160 million in funds for Everton FC. Funds were transferred to Everton's stadium subsidiary company in several tranches between May and August.

With rampant speculation in certain quarters about Everton's financial condition and an apparent cessation of funding by major shareholder Farhad Moshiri that had seen an extraordinary transfer window concluded with minimal outlay, there had been concerns voiced that Everton were heading toward administration.  

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However, the confirmation that these loan funds have been put in place secures a significant amount of the additional funding for the stadium and could pave the way for further investment to secure full funding for the complete construction of the new Everton Stadium.


Reader Comments (83)

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Neil Lawson
1 Posted 13/09/2023 at 07:57:00
At last some positive news. We will have the best stadium in the Championship.
Duncan McDine
2 Posted 13/09/2023 at 08:40:19
Sounds like this should be considered good news, but knowing Everton, the interest rate will be similar to a Wonga loan.
Dupont Koo
3 Posted 13/09/2023 at 09:52:47
Borrowing from loan sharks is Liar Bill's one and only expertise in the commercial world!
Clive Rogers
4 Posted 13/09/2023 at 10:09:05
Loans, loans, loans. So easy to get, it’s paying them back that’s the problem.
Brian Williams
5 Posted 13/09/2023 at 10:17:41
Just goes to show you that there just wasn't a problem with the loan as widely reported and moaned about, as it began getting paid to the club as far back as May.

Doesn't stop the shite journo's spewing out garbage, or the doomsayers on here believing it and moaning like fuck as usual.

*For "moaning like fuck" please see above.*

Dan Nulty
6 Posted 13/09/2023 at 10:18:05
If we can hang in there, when the stadium is done, we've got to be a more attractive proposition for a purchaser. We've just got to hope we can score enough goals and steer clear of injuries to keep our best team on the pitch all season. Neither of which we've been able to do for 5 years but here is hoping.
Tony Everan
7 Posted 13/09/2023 at 10:26:53
It’s good news to a point, it buys time, it keeps construction going. It kicks the can down the road to a climate where, in theory, borrowing costs are lower and appetite for investment is better at a time when the stadium will be well advanced.

Nobody knows fully what is going on but it wouldn’t surprise me if Moshiri was trying to flush out more interested parties with the 777 story, as I can’t see any ink on any contracts this side of October 15th. After that date, just possibly, other investors will show their hand.

Brent Stephens
8 Posted 13/09/2023 at 10:33:32
Objectively good news. Why the negative jibes? Ah, I know why!
Peter Moore
9 Posted 13/09/2023 at 11:09:17
Good news.

Related topic, I heard Sam Allardyce on TalkShite this morning. He certainly has an axe to grind and a chip on his shoulder. We are not in rude financial health but he made it sound even worse than it is.

Apparently we are in great peril with a dearth of quality on the pitch, a stadium that is only half-built and half-funded and the new buyers will fail the fit and proper persons test, basically. What a bellend. Trying to paint us in the blackest way possible, the negative tit.

Tony Everan
10 Posted 13/09/2023 at 11:41:38
#7 *correction, October 25th.
Jerome Shields
11 Posted 13/09/2023 at 12:58:05
If you are going to build a new stadium, you needs loans. Glad this one has been confirmed.

Everton did not take any loans to buy players. Actually, have they paid anything this season for the players they have got?

Michael Kenrick
12 Posted 13/09/2023 at 13:15:04
Brain @6, you're right, the way this has been reported is really very odd, but then clickbait and sensationalism are the order of the day... or the decade.

That got me wondering about verification for this part of the story, where Paul the Esk got this info, and if any other sources were carrying this story in the same way. The only thing I could see was the despicable Goodison News glomming on to Paul's piece at his website, just moments after putting up another one of their fear-mongering masterpieces.

It seems to me that this was something Paul was genuinely worried about, and that he sees obviously as a very positive change for the better – which in itself is highly unusual for him.

I just assumed he must have seen fresh filings at Companies House confirming the loans... but no, there's nothing there beyond the old charges for Blythe Capital. So I'm guessing he must have got this first-hand from someone in the club or in the know.

But when you look back at the stories that flew around when MSP were blocked by Rights & Media Funding, killing their quest for a 25% equity position in the club, it was stated quite clearly then that the £100M funding for the stadium would still go ahead. So really this should not even be a story.

But I guess with confusion over the other MSP story, and very Evertonian fears that everything had hit the fan and we were doomed, then Paul's huge manifest relief at seeing this confirmed is understandable?

Christy Ring
13 Posted 13/09/2023 at 13:37:28
Michael #11 Regarding MSP being blocked by Rights & Media Funding, who are they and who got the loan off them? A name keeps propping up??
Bob Parrington
14 Posted 13/09/2023 at 13:43:09
Michael @ 12, Good post. But, as I've said on another post, I smell a rat in this whole saga.

During my life, I've had plenty of dealings with USA companies and something seems fishy in this whole saga, of which this MSP might or might not be a part. 777 is not a partner that would excite Everton fans.

As I've asked on another post, is there any link between Dan Meis and 777 or even MSP? Dan has a lot of reputation at stake on the success of the new stadium. I think he seems an okay guy but I'm not so sure about the 777 Partners and MSP.

"Screw Moshiri while he's down" comes in to question.
I hope I'm wrong!

Jamie Crowley
15 Posted 13/09/2023 at 14:19:43
We are leveraged to the hilt. I would think the only way to clear the amount of debt we've incurred building the stadium is to either put a mid-table team on the pitch for the next decade and take the increased profits from the new stadium and pay off the debt?

Or sell the Club, clear the debt / restructure, and move forward under new ownership.

Are there any other options I'm not thinking of?

One thing is for sure – our top priority must be to pay off the mountain of debt we've incurred and additionally not allow "shoot the moon" spending to ever occur at the Club again. We can't lose hundreds of millions in a single year ever again!

Duncan McDine
16 Posted 13/09/2023 at 14:44:43
Thanks for the reality check, Brian (5)...

Can we all just relax and stop doubting the decision-making at Everton, because Brian says that everything will be fine.


Michael Kenrick
17 Posted 13/09/2023 at 14:54:10
Christy @13,

It seems that the people behind Rights & Media Funding are David Angus McKnight and Jonathan Durbin. McKnight is the chairman and CEO of the company, while Durbin is the managing director. Both men are supposedly experienced financiers with a long history of working in the sports industry.

David Angus McKnight is a former investment banker who has worked at Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley. He is also the chairman of Sports Investment Partners, a private equity firm that invests in sports businesses.

Jonathan Durbin is a former professional footballer who played for clubs such as Crystal Palace and Charlton Athletic. He is also a qualified accountant and has worked in the sports finance industry for over 20 years.

Rights & Media Funding was founded in 2019 to provide loans to professional sports clubs. The company's first loan to Everton was made in September 2021, so I suspect the answer you are seeking for the person who got the loan off them might be a certain William Kenwright? Although maybe Grant Ingles was involved? I think it was worth £100 million and was used to help the club finance construction of the new stadium.

Mike Gaynes
18 Posted 13/09/2023 at 14:58:12
Brian #5, thanks for my first grin of the day.

Looking forward to having a pint with you in a couple of weeks!

Brian Williams
19 Posted 13/09/2023 at 15:00:26
Stop it Duncan. 🤣 Nobody's mad enough (not even me) to say everything will be fine. This is Everton!

Mike, looking forward to seeing you again mate! Been too long! 🇺🇸

Michael Kenrick
20 Posted 13/09/2023 at 15:07:19
Bob @14, that's an interesting sceptical (or should I say cynical?) position you seem to have adopted there regarding US companies.

Perhaps I should hold up my hand and declare an interest: I've worked for one for many years... But the apparent crimes of 777 Partners are well documented and commented on above.

It remains to be seen if that record really is an impediment but, with the Premier League supposedly tightening up on the application of their fit and proper persons test, wouldn't it be 'Everton that' if we were to be denied key investment funding on those grounds?

That aside, you may be onto something with the Dan Meis connection. I'm reading that Dan Meis indeed has a connection to both 777 Partners and MSP Sports Capital!

He is a founding partner of Populous, an architecture firm that has designed stadiums for 777 Partners-owned clubs, such as Standard Liege and Vasco da Gama. He is also a consultant to MSP Sports Capital.

So the plot thickens…

Mike Gaynes
21 Posted 13/09/2023 at 15:25:27
Michael, interesting and informative posts at #12, #17 and #20.
Paul Kossoff
22 Posted 13/09/2023 at 15:40:03
This two-faced hypocritical government of ours are stepping in and asking the Premier League over the 777 takeover. Looks like it will be blocked.

Now if we get some murdering regime who have murdered hundreds of thousands of innocents in to takeover, then we will be okay with Mr Sunak back from God knows where, Pakistan or India is it?

George Cumiskey
23 Posted 13/09/2023 at 15:51:09
Come on now, Paul, you know the government rigorously investigated the PPE fraud and corruption of the Tory party.

Oh, wait a minute… 😱

Paul Kossoff
24 Posted 13/09/2023 at 16:25:01
George, now you are not being sarcastic are you? Surely not.

Currupt government in the UK, my God oy Vey already.🙄

Rick Tarleton
25 Posted 13/09/2023 at 16:32:14
Ask Bruges fans what they think of this ownership. Sevilla fans too aren't too enamoured of these owners.
Mike Gaynes
26 Posted 13/09/2023 at 16:52:58
Rick #25, 777 doesn't own either club. They hold a minority stake in Sevilla.
Niall McIlhone
27 Posted 13/09/2023 at 16:56:52
The stadium will be built and, within 10 years, the local area around Bramley-Moore Dock will be a bustling new development, ensuring that the value of the stadium itself is enhanced.

I suspect that 777 know exactly what they are doing, it is all about making money, but unless the club divest themselves of the current owner and the chairman, there is no prospect of moving forward at all. I would like to think of Dan Meis as our guardian angel, in ensuring the club is handled as the institution it is by our prospective owners!

Should a block be put on the 777 takeover, however, I would hope the club might seek legal advice on the basis that at least two other Premier League clubs are currently owned by companies who are no more than proxy concerns to enable nation states to play with their train sets in England.

There is surely a question of “natural justice” here, not to mention the abject past failure of the Premier League to adequately punish those clubs who proposed a break away to the so-called European Super League?

Tony Everan
28 Posted 13/09/2023 at 17:13:28
Bob 14, inspired stuff on the Dan Meis instinct.

Michael, the fact he has links to both camps rubber stamps that there is surely something here that is more than a coincidence.

Jack Convery
29 Posted 13/09/2023 at 17:35:55
Whilst we're playing Monopoly, can I claim the top hat.

I also claim I own Community Chest and Chance. The supposed Free Parking Space also belongs to me and that I purchased the Gaol in a behind No10 brown envelope scenario.

As you can guess, I also own the Railway Stations having lent a Senior Cabinet Minister my Ferrari for a couple of months after his son, in a very pissed state, crashed it into a couple of pensioners in a Corsa – the case was hushed up as you can imagine and the Pensioners charged with careless driving. They were parked at the time!

I also get 30% of all tax collected plus a further 25% of all rental transactions on property and houses or hotels. If I draw the Complete Renovations on all properties and houses I own, I have a 100-year exemption, which I negotiated after telling a certain PM I would destroy certain photos I had of him and a certain Home Secretary involving a goat and a famous TV personality.

Other than that, I'm open to a fair and equitable game any time.

To paraphrase a certain Great Artist – “Corruption, Corruption… all is Corruption.”

We live in a Banana Monarchy, where the banana is the most bent banana you ever did see.

Tony Abrahams
30 Posted 13/09/2023 at 18:20:48
I'm not a historian but has anyone got a more classier way of doing corruption than the British Government. The Yanks might have taken over in the deceit with class department, but they have had great English teachers who go back years. Or maybe I have just watched too many narco films over the years.

Good informative posts Michael K, and very intriguing with regards to Dan Meis, especially after watching how tight these narco groups tend to be!

Danny O’Neill
31 Posted 13/09/2023 at 18:45:25
Well, this is all getting mysterious and god knows what is happening.

I have no control over this, be it 777 or MSP.

Whoever it is or will be, they are doing it for investment.

I wish I knew, but right now, I'm more concerned about facing Arsenal on Sunday.

Ed Prytherch
32 Posted 13/09/2023 at 18:50:00
If 777 or another new owner appears, then perhaps they pay off the £200M loan from Rights and Media Funding which would allow MSP to invest in the club and put some competent people on the board.

That would be a good outcome.

Paul Kossoff
33 Posted 13/09/2023 at 18:51:49
Danny, don't worry too much, 2-1 to us Sunday, coyb 👮👮👮
Brian Harrison
34 Posted 13/09/2023 at 18:58:28
I see a report today saying that 777 are wanting to upgrade Genoa's training facility, and they are asking the fans to fund it and they will give 9% return on the investment.

Maybe if they take over us and they need to raise funds, maybe they will adopt the same procedure? Mind, that seems a very high interest rate to pay out.

So get ready to open your piggy banks and, provided the fans will pay for it, we can solve our lack of funds to buy players, really?

Stephen Davies
35 Posted 13/09/2023 at 19:01:58
From another site:

However, as I posted on here previously the UK government has reportedly been tipped off by the US government that 777 are under scrutiny (early stage investigation?) over there.

For that tip to have happened it would have to be because there is suspicion of significant wrongdoing. The UK government and the Premier League will not want to simply swap one problem for another.

Dale Self
36 Posted 13/09/2023 at 19:10:18
Stop it Brian 19, everything will be fine.
Mark Ryan
37 Posted 13/09/2023 at 19:12:38
The more I read, the more I'm filled with a sense of dread about 777 Partners.

We need an Arab type investment otherwise we'll never dine at the top table and I can't bear the thought of not going toe to toe with the big boys ever again.

I'm sick of this mediocrity. We have to convince a big player to take us over. Why can't either of the 2 groups looking to buy Man Utd come and take us on and take us back to the top?

Ed Prytherch
38 Posted 13/09/2023 at 19:30:14
Mark, not only the top table but the head (or heads) of the table but don't wear rainbow socks or it might be tour head.
Mark Ryan
39 Posted 13/09/2023 at 19:56:18
So you wouldn't swap places with where Newcastle are right now, Ed?
Eric Haworth
40 Posted 13/09/2023 at 20:07:12
I suspect that I'm no different than the vast majority of other Blues in knowing absolutely naff-all about 777 and/or MSP, other than what I've read, from a variety of so-called media sources that are probably even more suspect than either 777 or MSP?

Consequently, I'm definitely not qualified to offer an opinion on the merits of either. However, what I can do is what I do when we're linked with a new player and that's tap into the respective selling clubs' fans' websites for their opinions. Because you can never rely on the jaundiced, and more often than not, purely fictional views from so-called professional media sources or ex-player pundits who have the IQ of a goldfish.

But views you can rely on are those from the fee-paying supporters, because they know what they pay to see every week and, like ourselves, they also know if things aren't right with their club.

Therefore, I'll merely leave you with Facebook comments posted by an Italian Genoa fan on this subject, without offering any further comment myself:

Matteo Caprile

“For us in Genoa they are a blessing. They may make some mistakes in sport management due to lack of experience, they are paying the debts of the old owner and they are restructuring the club at all levels. In fact annual season tickets reached an all-time record this year. I don't know Everton's financial situation, but Vasco's and Hertha's were desperate.”

Ed Prytherch
41 Posted 13/09/2023 at 20:31:45
Mark 39 - Definitely No!

And I would not buy suspected stolen property or do business with a child molester.

Justin Doone
42 Posted 13/09/2023 at 20:34:32
Football for 99% of owners is all about business. Money, money, money, profit, profit, money.

As always, success on the pitch and everyone's happy.

Poor results, especially for several seasons, brings doom, gloom and financial problems.

I don't know Mo, but he's said several times he wants investment, not to sell the club. So I believe that's what's going to happen.

The quickest way to fix any problem is to win trophies and if you can't win trophies, then be successful to your own standards.

So I'll not be writing a check, seeing the bank manager for a loan or ploughing my lottery (still dreaming) winnings into a football club other than to watch, visit and buy the usual merch, food or beer at wherever Everton play.

Now here's hoping for a successful season. I'll take a Top 17 finish right now.

Paul Birmingham
43 Posted 13/09/2023 at 20:56:08
I have no idea what is really happening behind the scenes at Everton, and who is or isn't in line to take buy out Everton. This could be a smoke screen, but who knows?

Getting 3 points v Arsenal is crucial… but so is the livelihood and day-to-day running of Everton FC.

Mark Brennnan
44 Posted 13/09/2023 at 21:30:50
We're going to be in "hock" forever.
Christy Ring
45 Posted 13/09/2023 at 22:03:09
Michael #17,

Thank you for your response.

Mark Taylor
46 Posted 13/09/2023 at 00:12:41
Things are pretty opaque right now, and I might be wrong, but this seems like non-news to me. I think MSP had pretty much signed up to a loan, which is why they got their UK placemen (AJ Bell and someone else) to advance us the money as a kind of bridging loan.

I suspect there were counterparty deals that made it inevitable the loan transaction via MSP happened. But that seems to suggest it's not new money, just replacing the placemens' bridging loan, so the cashflow problems remain.

Of more interest are the terms and interest rate. Is this another party, like Rights & Media Funding, who can block a sale? What's the interest rate? What's the guarantee (I'm guessing the stadium is the collateral)?

As I understand it, MSP offered £150M originally with that extra £50m going into the club, seemingly in return for a 25% stake. That implies that Everton, excluding the current debt to the above parties plus Moshiri, is worth around £200m. But I don't think 777 will have offered that much, not also repaying Moshiri's loans in full.

Overall, financially, I think it's status quo, except maybe we have added another complication to a sale. Are there any other takers? If the Glazers called off the Man Utd sale, would that flush out one of their buyers? Here's hoping...

Greg Nelli
47 Posted 14/09/2023 at 02:50:27
Mark @46,

I would say it is news, as we have seen with plenty of examples around the club, nothing is done until it's done. At this point, the loan is vital and it's a relief that it is formalised.

Paul [The Esk]
48 Posted 14/09/2023 at 03:18:18
#12 Michael, some context & clarification as to how I was able to "break" the news (no criticism of your analysis btw).

For several weeks, I have openly speculated as to the risks of administration in the absence of fresh funding (be that equity or debt). It is self-evident that Everton have no financial reserves and they could not continue to meet operating costs and pay for the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock out of revenue alone. Therefore, the analysis that, in the absence of fresh funding, administration was a possible outcome.

I also made the reasonable observation that, had MSP provided a loan to the stadium development company, then that would be secured with a charge in their favour filed at Companies House.

I have always made it clear to the club and any other associated party that, should any of my published analysis be incorrect, I would happily correct subject to evidence of the correct information or analysis. Ultimately I want to provide correct analysis and data for the benefit of Evertonians and Everton alike.

Two days ago, I was contacted by MSP's media team to inform me that the loans had actually been provided by MSP including Andy Bell as a limited partner over the period May to August of this year.As a result my, analysis regarding the potential threat of administration was at this time inaccurate.

I was also informed of Andy Bell's company, Blythe Capital, acting not only on his behalf but also as security agents for the whole MSP limited partnership. As a result of this information, with MSP's explicit approval, I was able to confirm (i) the loan (ii) the security arrangements including the role of Blythe Capital and (iii) as a result of this funding, the removal of any immediate threat of administration. The discussion with MSP and agreed actions were amicable and professional at all times.

There are wider questions of course. The reliance on debt not equity is deeply worrying especially in a relatively high interest-rate environment. This should be addressed by Moshiri but it is clear he is not in a position to do this, and that the capital restructuring will fall upon new owners (whenever that may be).

Nevertheless, the confirmation of funding has to be viewed as a positive given the wider context of the club's ownership and financial issues.

Additionally, there's a question as to why it's taken so long for the information to enter the public domain. An explanation in May would have provided a much more solid base upon which to enter the summer and would have stopped dead the concerns and thus narrative about how perilous Everton's stadium financing was. Yet again, Everton's communication strategy appears to have created difficulties when a more transparent approach would have provided benefits.

Apologies for the long post but I wanted to clarify and explain how this news came about.

Paul [The Esk]
49 Posted 14/09/2023 at 03:23:31
ps: I appreciate the discussion and many excellent points made by numerous contributors to the thread.
Nick Page
50 Posted 14/09/2023 at 03:32:05
Brilliant, Paul. Thank you again for your amazing hard work and diligence! It is very much appreciated.
Mike Gaynes
51 Posted 14/09/2023 at 05:05:44
Paul #48, thank you for the clarification and the new (and startling) information that the MSP loan had actually been delivered starting last spring.

I have long been bewildered by the inability of Moshiri's administration to learn how to communicate with the public. At the outset, I assumed it was just that he didn't know how -- Moshiri's previous companies have always been closely held businesses with no requirement or incentive for public disclosure -- but even when this strategy of silence discernibly backfired into near fan rebellion, outside of an occasion "fan letter", he has never progressed towards anything resembling public relations. And again in this case it has worked to his detriment with the fanbase.

The only thing that truly surprises me, however, is that the word never leaked out that the funds had changed hands. MSP is consummately professional and would of course keep a tight lid on the information, but I would honestly have expected somebody inside the club to tip off some journo at some point. Either it never happened, or said journo got the tip but was never able to confirm its accuracy.

I'm glad MSP gave you the call and the straight dope.

Laurie Hartley
52 Posted 14/09/2023 at 05:58:50
Thanks, Paul, for letting us know that MSP have delivered the loan. Would you agree that this is a strong indicator that MSP think the completion of the stadium is a “good bet”?

If the answer is Yes, I think this would stop many of our number fretting about the viability of the stadium project.

ps: As Mike has indicated in his post, this is very poor (non-existent) communication by the owner and the current board. Perhaps they have been silenced. Either way, it seems the rift between them and the fan base is irreparable. The sooner we part company, the better – a house divided against itself cannot stand.

Danny O’Neill
53 Posted 14/09/2023 at 09:43:33
Thanks for the detailed analysis and explanation as always Paul.

Partly I was worried, but as you say there has to be some optimism in hearing MSP has provided funds for the continued stadium development.

I saw the latest official club website post on the stadium. Picking up on the opening statement that work had "re-commenced" would indicate it had stopped?

It half worries me, but then there seem to be enough hawks circling as longer term, we must be a good investment?

For years now, we haven't capitalised on our potential and stood still. We can go over that all day and every day.

Time to move forward. Out with the old and in with the new.

Michael Kenrick
54 Posted 14/09/2023 at 09:45:11
Paul @48,

Ah, now it makes total sense. Much appreciated. Many thanks and apologies for my scepticism.

I was trying to figure out how much the club may have spent so far on the new stadium? I want to say it was about £300M through the end of FY 22-23?

So, by the simplest of maths, this loan would take them to perhaps £400M – still leaving a big hole on the supposed fixed cost of £505M, and ignoring cost escalations which must have occurred.

(I'm kind of ignoring the £760M figure Moshiri gave us as I recall the explanation for that was additional infrastructure and other works around Bramley-Moore Dock?)

My point with this being that, as others have said, it just kicks the can down the road – albeit for another very precipitous year in our perilous existence as a club. Will we not be in a similar situation, and in much need of at least another £100M (or even £200M?) next year in order to get the job done?

Michael Kenrick
55 Posted 14/09/2023 at 09:53:19

The stoppage was a direct response to the tragic death of Michael Jones. I think they were down for at least a week, and I imagine the HSE accident investigation would have taken up much of that time.

My belief, drilled into me by safety experts in the US, was that accidents can be avoided but you had to understand how they happened. There seems to be no such philosophy here in the UK — in fact almost the opposite. No-one wanted to address how Michael Jones had died until the inquest and then it only rated a brief one-line statement.

Surely talking more about the cause is an opportunity to reinforce how dangerous a simple thing like a scissors lift can be and to ram the message home about staying safe at all times?

James Hughes
56 Posted 14/09/2023 at 10:17:46
Michael, I will have to disagree with that paragraph.

In my experience H&S is taken very seriously in this country and regs are amended and working practices are changed after incidents llike this.

I have had the fortune of completing the NEBOSH diploma and the regs put in place are extensive and a great part of them are from unfortunate accidents.

Anyway going to work and not going home is never nice in any form.

RIP Michael Jones.

Edit, the inquest has been adjourned, not concluded.

John Keating
57 Posted 14/09/2023 at 10:44:02

I'm dealing with these fuckwit HSE guys 24-7. Doing a one-minute job takes an hour due to the bloody paperwork. Toolbox talks everyone sleeps but scratches their signature at the end.

As soon as money comes into play HSE, procedures etc go straight out the window. HSE guys, NEBSH and all are told to shut up, say nowt and read stuff in their office.

I could write a book!

Simon Jones
58 Posted 14/09/2023 at 10:47:22
More guesswork here, but just a thought: once the stadium is completed and has a regular user (tenant for want of a better word), surely is it possible to raise a commercial mortgage on it that would pay off the costlier loans and allow for structured repayments over a longer period?
Bobby Mallon
59 Posted 14/09/2023 at 11:19:57
Micheal 55.

My belief, drilled into me by safety experts in the US, was that accidents can be avoided but you had to understand how they happened. There seems to be no such philosophy here in the UK — in fact almost the opposite.

You really do need go watch how the H&S exec work. 7 years on from the Didcot A collapse of the boiler house the HS and a dedicated police team are still investigating the 4 deaths. It's complex sometimes.

James Hughes
60 Posted 14/09/2023 at 11:35:57

As soon as money comes into play HSE, procedures etc go straight out the window

You are right and policies do not always match realities when push comes to shove. Ignore that and just get the job done

I am not in the building game, I just have a useless bit of paper that my employer insisted I pass.

Stay safe and tell them 'eff off' if asked to do anything dodgy.

Derek Thomas
61 Posted 14/09/2023 at 11:39:27
John Keating @ 57; I whole heartedly concur (been there on both sides, worker and supervisor) honoured more in the breech than the observance, box ticked.

I worked in Queensland Rail for some time, Management and Unions - when it suited them - both played the...'Don't do what I say - do what I really want you to do.

We were 'unofficially' told when there was an accident, do 3 things;

1) First Aid etc - if required.

2) Go and get Joe Bloggs, it was his job to carry a kit of all the standard PPE. He would then rush to the incident and – like a cop with a throw down gun at a 'bad shooting' – check the injured guy had his full complement of PPE, if he was missing any, even if it was totally unrelated to the Incident, throw down the missing glove or whatever.

3) Inform management.

Kevin Molloy
62 Posted 14/09/2023 at 13:04:29
I'm really not understanding how a massive loan secures our position. It just means we can carry on building for another six months. But that money will of course just be added to the enormous pile that the club owes.

It seems like yesterday Moshiri was being praised for 'wiping the clubs's debts'. He bloody changed his mind about that, didn't he? We are now loaded up good style.

Kevin Molloy
63 Posted 14/09/2023 at 13:34:35
Our current problems all start and end with Moshiri. We could be sold tomorrow, we'd have people queueing around the block, if only the price was a market price.

But our chap has made a number of truly appalling business decisions. We all know about the player side, the crazy wages. But look at the stadium. For what it is we are getting, (10,000 extra seats, and a vastly improved offer to the commercial sector), who in their right mind would say 'I'll take it!' if the builder had rubbed his chin and said 'For you, I can do the lot for £750 million'. Revamping Goodison to get those extra seats could have been done for a tenth of the price.

So he's down literally hundreds of millions of pounds. And he wants to sell so bad. But he also wants to not walk away half a billion lighter. And he can't have both. And in such a scenario, the real danger for us I think is that if the club is effectively an Andre Gomes, whereby we are almost at the point of paying someone to take it on, such are the enormous debts.

Does the calculation become, actually I could make more money back by flogging both grounds and the playing staff, than by selling on the club as a whole?

Which is why the fire sale of the last year is particularly unnerving. Cos he's pretty much sold most now of the family silver. He was hoping to sell Onana too this year. Which basically leaves Pickford.

Christopher Timmins
64 Posted 14/09/2023 at 13:43:16

Our problems started with the man who brought Moshiri to Goodison Park.

Brian Harrison
65 Posted 14/09/2023 at 14:31:11
I think it looks like, even with a state-of-the-art new stadium on the horizon, that we (or should I say Moshiri) is struggling to attract the multi-billionaire owners or possible oil state country. Instead, we have the not-very-attractive proposition of 777 Partners with their so far appalling record with other clubs as the only possible suitors at present.

We have a £200 million loan with the Rights and Media Funding which prohibited MSP taking a controlling share in the club, but they have agreed to a £100 million loan.

Somebody suggested these loans are costing the club £20 million a year in interest payments, I don't know whether Paul the Esk could confirm those interest payments. But it seems pretty certain that we are only paying off the interest on those loans.

I assume that a new owner will have to pay off those loans, as well as finance any shortfall to complete the stadium. Then there is the question of how much does Moshiri (& Usmanov) want back from their investment?

Dale Self
66 Posted 14/09/2023 at 15:46:00
I haven’t looked at past acquisitions to see if dour macroeconomic forecasts deter investment in clubs but it would make sense. A higher interest rate environment, talk of a slowdown in China, possible desperation responses to the Ukraine counteroffensive and more have all put the squeeze on the Accountant’s offer. Poor performances on the pitch and general malaise in the club offices has only strengthened the hands of potential buyers.

Moshiri is always a bit slow to read the room. If he is half as bad with communication about FFP risk in talks as with the public, of course buyers will try to wait for smoke to clear. In the meantime, Moshiri hopes that the team will rise in the table and allow a less painful exit of some sort.

I think it gets done with some prodding by the authorities. Moshiri doesn’t really have the acumen for this but is sitting on top of some prime real estate with the club and its holdings. He just can’t understand that he is the reason for its undervalued state.

Paul [The Esk]
67 Posted 14/09/2023 at 17:23:46
Brian #65.

I'm reliably informed we pay 12% on the R&MF loan and roughly 9 or 10% on MSP. That's around £34M a year.

Brian Harrison
68 Posted 14/09/2023 at 17:32:59
Thanks, Paul,

We are very lucky to have someone as well informed as yourself to understand the financial implications at the club.

Seeing as these 2 loans are costing us £34m a year in interest payments, and I think the last set of accounts showed that about 90% of our income goes on wages, so player sales may be used for day to day running of the club.

Tony Abrahams
69 Posted 14/09/2023 at 17:33:44
Absolutely staggering when you consider that Farhad Moshiri, is supposed to be an accountant.
Barry Hesketh
70 Posted 14/09/2023 at 17:47:01
I don't see how the current football set-up in England is sustainable, I would think that many clubs will crash and burn in the next half-a-decade or so, unless there is a substantial change in how the game operates.

Fans can only contribute so much to the cause, buying tickets, shirts etc. Big sponsorship, ie, household named companies are only interested in the clubs who have a realistic chance of on-field success. No rich individual is going to go down the same path as the likes of Moshiri, at a club similar in size to Everton ever again.

Of course there are winners in this strange economic landscape, the loan-sharks and the agents who all seem to take a huge chunk from football, without doing very much at all, apart from hoodwinking naive owners that they provide solutions, when in fact they only really add to the problems, that those owners face.

Pete Neilson
71 Posted 14/09/2023 at 17:55:44
With these rates of interest, the target of around £40M income from the new stadium is pretty much wiped out.

But really it was too much to expect that incompetent fools who allowed our expenditure to get out of control knew how to plan for the future. Maybe they've got the Stones or Macca lined up for a residency.

Mark Ryan
72 Posted 14/09/2023 at 18:41:31
Truly staggering numbers involved. Without a Jim Ratcliffe or Saudi type buyout, I'd agree with many that we will be on the never never forever or go bust. Just simply staggering financial incompetence by the owner.

If it wasn't for the Ukraine War, I suspect we'd have been seeing Usmanov heading into the city to watch the unveiling of his new stadium. Strange days indeed...

Mark Taylor
73 Posted 14/09/2023 at 19:17:22
Michael @54,

I think you have it correct there. I've said previously, this is not really news in the sense that the money was already in the club through their UK placemen and my guesstimate (you or Paul might know better) is that the money likely runs out Q1 next year – I doubt we will be offered much in the way of credit by the builder given our financial risk.

So Moshiri is running out of time to get this resolved, presumably in the shape of an exit. The other option, which of course will horrify all of us, is kick the can down the road by fire-selling whoever we can sell in January.

Bobby Mallon
74 Posted 14/09/2023 at 19:42:27
Here's a question for you all.

If we got a Glasgow Rangers type fine and were dropped to the bottom tier in League Two, would you all still go the game?

Danny, would you still be on the train Sunday to watch us play Accrington Stanley?

If the answer is Yes from all of you, then our finances don't really matter as it's who's on the pitch that attracts us to a game – not the person(s) who own us.

If it's a No, then you don't really have a right to make comments.

Brian Williams
75 Posted 14/09/2023 at 19:44:33
If it's a no you have just as much right to comment, IMHO.
It's a moot point though because there will be no punishment to speak of.
Sean Kelly
76 Posted 14/09/2023 at 19:50:49
Tony, I think he hasn't moved on from the abacus.
Kevin Molloy
77 Posted 14/09/2023 at 19:56:19
I wouldn't get too fixated on the loans. They will vanish as soon as we are sold. The only reason they are there now is cos Usmanov has decreed he's not going to put another penny in.
Danny O’Neill
78 Posted 14/09/2023 at 20:17:16
Bobby. A simple yes from me.

But then I'm simple apparently!

But yes. Absolutely and unreservedly yes.

Mark Murphy
79 Posted 14/09/2023 at 20:34:23
Accrinton stanlee?? Oo are dey??
Barry Hesketh
80 Posted 14/09/2023 at 20:47:16
I don't even want to see Everton playing games against clubs in the Premier League, just to try and stay in the division, so it's a large no from me paying to watch a 3rd tier game involving Everton. It might have attracted me back in the 90s but not today.

I'm as much an Evertonion as any other, but I've had enough of suffering watching Everton fail to rise to the occasion so often, I'm blowed if I'm spending time and money watching lower league football, because a bunch of owners and administrators didn't look after the club properly.

An ordinary relegation to the Championship and I would probably carry on watching but demotion to a tier lower than that because the club broke the rules, I'd be loathe to keep going the game.

The finances of the club, dictate who's out on the pitch, so whether you remain loyal or not, it really does matter who the owners are, and everybody has a right to choose what they would do and what they say on here or elsewhere.

Bobby Mallon
81 Posted 14/09/2023 at 22:55:03
I’m a yes also. We can all moan and groan about how the club is run but in reality we can’t and haven’t done much about it. But we can still watch the team play football no matter what division they are in.
Mike Gaynes
82 Posted 15/09/2023 at 00:27:32
Kevin #77, sorry but I'm calling malarkey on that post.

The loan has landed because MSP, a tremendously savvy business group, is confident the stadium will be completed and they will have made a profitable investment when they are repaid with interest by whoever owns the club at that time.

And Usmanov didn't decree anything. He was sanctioned and his assets were frozen. It wasn't his call.

(PS... I am hoping that at least part of the repayment to MSP will be an ownership slice of the club. I still want them involved.)

Kim Vivian
83 Posted 15/09/2023 at 10:23:10
Bobby - 74. That touches on a point I have often made about the catastrophe or otherwise of relegation (leaving out the financial hit).

My point has always been that most genuine fans enjoy watching football, their team, whichever league they are in. Your point does paint a pretty dramatic scenario but the answer from me is 'yes'.

...and there may be some genuine benefits, to wit, it might actually mean tickets are easier to get hold of - a nigh on impossibility these days unless you're a season ticket holder.

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