ToffeeWeb - Season 2009-10

Gareth Humphreys
1 Posted 04/03/2010 at 03:34:22

I think he did fine. Didn’t get forward as much as he does with the blues but that was understandable with the pace they had on their right.

Iain Love
2 Posted 04/03/2010 at 03:34:42

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Looking at Sky match ratings by the public he was 2nd only to Rooney of the starting line up.

I to watched the game mainly to see how Baines did, and he was fine apart from his pace. Will he go to the World Cup? ... not sure Capello's options are Cole if fit (and Baines ain't in his class), Lescott who can cover two places and who is a very good left back (Moyes preferred him to Baines until he needed him for the centre), and Milner who can cover about five positions and must be on the plane to South Africa.

I think it’s hopeful that he played the full 90 mins but, when it comes down to the 24-man squad, it depends on what fringe players Capello wants to take... eg, drop Baines and take another striker. I hope he goes and plays — it’s good publicity for the club.

Brian Baker
3 Posted 04/03/2010 at 03:44:40

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With Gerrard roaming all over the pitch, Baines had no defensive cover and had to fill in as LM, when Gerrard went AWOL. Early on, before Egypt scored, Baines was left with 2 men to cover on two occasions, with Gerrard out of position up the field.

So he was understandably playing on cautious side. He did take England's corners, one of which caused all sorts of problems, and also provided the overlapping cross which led to the 2nd goal.

Andrew Ellams
4 Posted 04/03/2010 at 04:27:16

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On the positive side for Everton, he should take every corner we get from here on.

Paul Gladwell
5 Posted 04/03/2010 at 04:24:13

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I made a point of watching him closely and time after time he got himself into great positions of space yet each time Gerrard would see him and turn right or hoof a ball to Rooney. Rooney was the same in the second half, trying stupid attempts when Baines was wide in space. It only took Milner two minutes to do what they should have tried and released Baines which in turn produced a goal.

It appeared to me they have some form of scouse love-in and Rooney was trying to do other people's jobs, bollocking people when he was the one losing the ball... maybe starting to believe his own hype too much.

Liam Reilly
6 Posted 04/03/2010 at 04:35:32

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I thought he did well. He was neat and tidy without being as adventurous as he would with his club side, although that’s understandable under an Italian coach.

His lack of pace and height may count against him, but he did his chances no harm with that display as getting the full 90 minutes would suggest.

Brian Baker
7 Posted 04/03/2010 at 04:46:56

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Baines has lack of pace? Are we watching the same player?

I would say Baines is at least as quick as Cashley, but he certainly doesn’t lack pace.

Liam Reilly
8 Posted 04/03/2010 at 05:07:25

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I am not saying he’s slow, of course he’s not, but he’s not the quickest either and he’s not as quick as Cashley.

Guy Hastings
9 Posted 04/03/2010 at 04:41:17

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First rule of an international debut — don’t fuck up. He didn’t. He was obviously playing to Capello’s instructions, which don’t appear to be ’link up with your wide man’ as he wasn’t there half the time, Acres of space in the second half which, as Paul G points out, weren’t used until Milner came on.

I happen to think that Gerrard is very poor for England and I’d look to Milner to take his place. Of course, if I was really paranoid, I’d say that Gerrard didn’t want Baines to look good so that Capello gives Stevie Me’s old Red Shite mucker Warnock the nod next time. But then I see conspiracy theories at every turn...

Stewart Littler
10 Posted 04/03/2010 at 05:35:01

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Made one mistake, which was giving away an early corner when a clearance or throw in would have been preferable. Didn’t give the ball away once as far as I could see.

Left exposed time after time due to the LM deciding he would play a roaming role, but still coped OK. Beaten for pace once or twice by admittedly a very quick winger, and again, this was because he had no support from the captain down that side.

I was surprised, given the likes of Gerrard, Lampard & Barry, that Baines took so many dead balls. Put in 2 good corners and a good free kick, but also had 1 or 2 corners that weren’t so good. Put in the cross which lead to the 2nd goal, and also played a great crossfield pass to Milner which lead to the third.

Overall, a very strong debut in my book. Got to have done his chances of WC good. May even start the first match - no guarantees that Cole will be fit.

On a side note, I hate Andy Townsend even more after last night. Baines played a corner in to the feet of Gerrard who had made a good dart to the near post, Gerrard flicked it on and Lampard should have buried it, but the mighty Townsend thought it ’was a very poor corner’! What a nob!

Brian Baker
11 Posted 04/03/2010 at 06:14:51

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In the first half Baines was essentially by himself on the left with few passing options down the line. As there was nobody forward of him, so a square or backpass was often his only option.

Did Gerrard ever pass the ball to Baines? I can’t recall a single instance where Gerrard passed to Baines, which makes it highly unusual that a LEFT midfield player never actaually makes a pass to his LEFT back for the whole match!!

Milner’s inclusion changed all that, he started giving Baines the ball, and giving Baines an option down the line, with his presence on the left giving Baines the chance to overlap.

Anthony Hawkins
12 Posted 04/03/2010 at 06:25:13

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Whether it was down to debut nerves, Steve G going AWOL or a disliking for the blue contingent of Merseyside, Baines did not look the same player as when in a Blue shirt. He looked over cautious and almost scared at times, prefering to play it safe. Given more games and time, Baines may well flourish at the England level, but there’s not much time left.

At this juncture, Ashley Cole looks a player at the next level than Baines.

The good news is that he played well and gave a good account of himself. Hopefully Capello sees the good in him and he gets the opportunity to shine. May be the confidence will come.

Andy Fletcher
13 Posted 04/03/2010 at 07:02:06

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I think at times going forward he was very isolated and he tried to make the runs he does with Pienaar but most of the times on one was working with him. All the England play was central or down the right.

Things improved slightly with Milner on who worked a bit better with Baines. Sadly I don't think Leighton will go to South Africa, I think Lescott will go and cover for the two positions of CB and Left Back, versatility is key in a squad.

Chris Fisher
14 Posted 04/03/2010 at 07:34:58

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I thought he was fucking class, the nicest guy in the England team and not a scandal anywhere near this lad bloody brilliant! Apparently Cappello was suitably impressed because he confirmed the plan was to replace him with Warnock at half time but dint see the point as he has already booked Bainsey a hotel room in South Africa and he dont rate Warnock!!!

Christopher Marston
15 Posted 04/03/2010 at 07:37:14

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I was in my car last night travelling back from 5-a side when Alan bloody fatface Green came on the radio. Straight away I felt like turning off... I gave him 5 more minutes of my listening time when suddenly, I had to turn his fucking fatface mouth off. That twat just went off on one about how Baines should have been substituted to give the red shite Warnock a chance. Well fuck you Green you big jelly bellied excuse for a human!

David Chait
16 Posted 04/03/2010 at 07:43:29

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Paul Gladwell .. spot on! There was no LM until Milner came on.. all of a sudden there was a threat on the left.... I am a big Milner fan and wish we had got him...

Until then as you say he was covering a whole side by himself and did it well.. then when in acres of space they kept feeding Brown - who was rubbish apart from that one pass.... was pissing me off no end.

So all in all I thought Baines was the best on the filed until the subs came on... oh and based on that performance Jagielka might just make the side!!!

Tom Bowers
17 Posted 04/03/2010 at 08:24:57

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Bainsey had a steady game no more. Warnock is his equal but Capello has other options. Right back is also a problem with Wes Brown being no great shakes. John Terry’s pace looked suspect at times and I question where his mind is at present because he has had some iffy games for Chelski since the Bridge affair surfaced. Goalkeeping is also suspect and Green is not the answer.

Let’s not go overboard with this England victory. Although the subs.did well they are better off as subs and the shaky first half is something we would have really been punished with against the really top teams.

Conor Ryan
18 Posted 04/03/2010 at 09:43:43

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England should drop Terry, Gerrard, Lampard if they want any chance of getting through the bloody group stages in SA.

Call me what you like but Im sick of seeing those pre-madonas line out for England. It's all got a bit weird if you ask me.

They seem like players who have no personality at all when playing for England. Weighed down with fear. Gerrard & Lamps seem to have an identidy crisis with England. (Who am I?)

In my opinion more high profile injury absentee’s please.But not Rooney....

Milners the man and should be the midfield general come June.

Ciarán McGlone
19 Posted 04/03/2010 at 10:08:12

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"I made a point of watching him closely and time after time he got himself into great positions of space yet each time gerrard would see him and turn right or hoof a ball to Rooney,"
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Hmmmmm..I thought that too.

Paul McGinty
20 Posted 04/03/2010 at 10:21:59

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Listening to Capello at the end of the game, he made a point of mentioning Baines contribution. I thought he played within himself, a little bit nervous to start , but certainly did not look out of place. England have a lot more problems than the left back spot, notably in goal, middle of the back, right full back and their midfield setup. Milner, Wright-Philips and Carrick gave them way more balance than the first half set-up.

Tony Williams
21 Posted 04/03/2010 at 11:12:10

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As many have already said, I only watched the game to see how well Baines performed. I too was pointing out to the telly (I know they can’t hear me) that Baines was free yet the GBH lad with no forehead would try his predictable 40 yard ball that ended up the way of a Yobo hoof. Both Rooney and Stevie Meee Laaaa didn;t look like they wanted to pass to him and were probably too busy trying to blow each other off.

He looked solid, whilst not outstanding and made several intelligent runs only to see the ball go back into the middle again.

Awful free kick to end of the first half though.

Ian McDowell
22 Posted 04/03/2010 at 11:17:26

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Also how did Jack Rodwell do for the u21 I believe he played 90 mins in there 2-1 defeat to Greece.

Neil Waring
23 Posted 04/03/2010 at 11:39:44

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It reminded of me in PE at school... work really hard to get into a great position, then no-one passes to you! Mind you, I was shite...

Larry Boner
24 Posted 04/03/2010 at 12:22:22

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Gerrard passing to Baines, it happened once, a misplaced pass in the warm up. All my RS mates called me paranoid, glad to get some support.
There was an occurrence that caused the axis of the earth to tilt, Mr Beckham was not brought on for his billionth cap, I think his last 50 appearnaces for England have not added up to 90 min total time.
I am a scouser born and bred and I hope Bainsey goes to SA, but I hope this gang of dickheads gets ripped to pieces, also how can the country that gave football to the world have an Italian as a coach,or a Swede, joke football ?
The last time I supported England, 1970 and 1986.

Stephen Kenny
25 Posted 04/03/2010 at 15:10:32

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Paul Gladwell,

I thought it was just me being paranoid. I thought he should have looked to carry the ball further at times. To be fair their RB, RM were both shit off a shovel so you cant blame him.

Francis Milner
26 Posted 04/03/2010 at 17:41:28

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Baines and Milner on the left looks good.

Can’t remember the last time Lampard or Gerrard played even a half decent game for England, would replace them with Carrick and Barry.

And by the way, if the sainted StevieG somehow gets the captaincy in SA then I’m with the Scots with their ABE campaign.

Jeff Armstrong
27 Posted 04/03/2010 at 17:58:33

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Baines played well within himself, but did’nt exactly get much encouragement from the southport southpaw or the croxteth slaphead, neither of them tried to bring him into the game, so much for scousers eh, don’t you just love em, same as everybody else, look after number one first then be salt of the earth later, anyway enough of that , Bainsey had a no nonsense debut and if he gets more games will improve steadily , just like he did for us, probably needs a left sided side kick though, won’t find it with the two gobshites who played near him in the first half last night though.

Keith Glazzard
28 Posted 04/03/2010 at 17:56:32

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Ciarán McGlone repied to -

"I made a point of watching him closely and time after time he got himself into great positions of space yet each time gerrard would see him and turn right or hoof a ball to Rooney,"

enigmatically -’Hmmmmm..I thought that too.’

(I think I had an Enigmatic that made that hmmm sound too).

Sorry lads I just got back in

And I agree with what I think you’re saying.

There are many points we can make here. The paucity of ’international’ football in a world where club success is totally paramount (was it ever really different?) The tabloids picking the team, and so on.

The second half I saw showed how limited an English team can be. To show how saintly a mind I have, I don’t think that Stevie GBH was deliberately freezing Baines out. He is a right footer, playing on the left. A very limited player who can only pass one way - contrast Mikel Arteta.

When Milner came on, suddenly there was a left flank. Football. Simple isn’t it?

For good or bad, our Kirkby boy is off to South Africa. And will be taking the corners.

Mike Gaynes
29 Posted 04/03/2010 at 20:08:51

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It was actually a great day for the boys in blue. While Baines was making his successful debut, I was watching Heitinga, Howard and Donovan in the USA-Holland game. Heitinga was commanding and flawless at the back for the Dutch, and Howard made a couple of brilliant saves. Donovan didn’t do as well... he was wide on the left so the USA could audition Stuart Holden on the right. Donovan was double-marked much of the game, and Holden unfortunately got his leg broken by De Jong. Another USA starter out of the World Cup.

Kevin Chung
30 Posted 05/03/2010 at 01:28:39

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"I made a point of watching him closely and time after time he got himself into great positions of space yet each time gerrard would see him and turn right or hoof a ball to Rooney,"
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Hmmmmm..I thought that too."

I thought that three.... I was thinking maybe there is something wrong my with TV because I’m in Malaysia .. and kept wondering WTF does Stevie G never pass a single ball to Baines who clearly has acres of space and was about to make some good runs...

I bloody hate Gerrard even more...

And yeah... I noticed the same thing too, when Milner came in, and he started passing to Baines...

Geez..

Paul Gladwell
31 Posted 05/03/2010 at 03:42:19

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You get worried that you are just being a chip on your shoulder blue, but I would love to see that stats of how many times he passed to Baines considering he was his partner on the left, I would bet it was not double figures, althought the second half Baines had to do a job of both full back and left mid as he just drifted to where he felt like.

Ok you have to look for your danger men like Rooney, but when every pass to him was a hoof ball,suicide ball or a ball to him when he had three men up his arse then surely look for other options,and though it would be silly to say it had something to do with him being an Everton player, certainly Gerrard showed little confidence in Baines at all.

David Chait
32 Posted 05/03/2010 at 07:23:32

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Mike Gaynes.. glad you mentioned Heitinga... sure everyone also read that piece that he is the number 1 guy for the Dutch now.. comparing him to Ooijer.. give me a break.. apparently excellent game... nice one Johnny

Peter Warren
33 Posted 05/03/2010 at 08:31:26

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Baines was competent, no more, no less, just like he is for us. Not a world beater and not our most important player and frankly, he and others think he’s better than he really is.

Mike Allison
34 Posted 05/03/2010 at 11:28:23

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Not that this is an England debate but Gerrard on the left is poor management. In fact, the constant refusal to choose between Gerrard and Lampard of the last three managers is poor management.

More relevantly, if Ashley Cole plays before the end of the season I wouldn’t expect Baines to go to South Africa. Of probables in the squad Milner, Lescott and Barry can all cover left back. Barry is probably the second best English left back after Ashley Cole but never seems to be mentioned in this whole debate.

David Gallant
35 Posted 05/03/2010 at 13:44:53

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Best you lads make that another ’hmmmmmm.’

I thought Bainesey did alright but agree with Capello’s assessment that he played within himself. I also agree with the view that he will improve with games and even further with a player more suited to the left than Gerrard to combine with.

As for Johnny Heitinga, he is rapidly becoming a main man at Everton too I assure you. His composure and reading of the game and his fearlessness in the tackle make him an outstanding central defender. His distribution and touch make him even better. I’ve been nowt but impressed with him since he’s been played at centre-back and hope that Distin makes way for a Jagielka/Heitinga central-defensive combination. In saying that Distin has improved in the last few games and would be unlucky to be dropped now, but perhaps its better to experiment with the long-term future of those crucial positions now that our season could be effectively fizzling out, not to mention with some ’easy’ games on the horizon.

Time will tell. For now, well in Bainesey lad and more power to ya! Just read that Donovan’s loan may be extended until the end of the season and that is another bit of positive news!

COYB!