Or has he been recalled?

Its very difficult to come off the bench at a new club and make an impact in your first game. He’ll have to adapt to a different style of play and a play against a lesser standard of footballer, who will no doubt see a premier football as a bit of a scalp.

He played for Clough at Derby who wanted him back, even after he got injured, so he couldn’t have done too badly. Give him a chance.

Hope he’s not injured again though.

Bloody hell, we love ribbibg our own players don’t we. The lad hasn’t really played in months and comes of the bench for a few minutes on Saturday and because he didn’t score, the signs look bad?????

He will need to integrate with his new team, learn their strengths and weaknesses and vice versa, that doesn’t happen in 24 hours. I am not surprised he was dropped, he won’t be match fit and it getting used to a diferent team.

Why are we so quick to get on players backs? Give him a chance, they have around a dozen games and if he stays fit I would predict he will play a part in most of them for Leicester.

Vaughan wasn’t dropped for last night. He felt a twinge in his hamstring when he came on the weekend, and wasn’t fit.

Vaughan is never fit. He’s simply incapable of playing games regulary.

That is why Moyes is losing faith in him. Vaughan is a passenger at Everton and its time to move him on.

The term passenger is too harsh Dick, as Vaughan’s problems are not of his own making, but I agree with the sentiment, he just seems too fragile to make it.

A shame because when he did have a run of games, he by far outshone his trike partner Johnson

Seriously, what is the point of this nonsense? You are talking like we have never seen him play or something!! We need to know nothing about Vaughan the player, simply how he is doing for fitness. Without a shadow of a doubt he is the best forward on Leicester’s books so please don’t try and tell me he can;t get a game over Martin Waghorn or Kevin Gallagher for anything other than fitness/political reasons.

Ian Kearney

The term passenger may seem harsh but its true.

Vaughan made his Everton debut five years ago and since then he’s done almost nothing.

In FIVE years Vaughan has only scored 9 goals.

Of course we all know he’s had awful injury problems but the simple fact is 9 goals in 5 years is truely awful.

Imagine if Yakubu, Big Dunc or Kevin Campbell had scored 9 goals in 5 years. They never would have gotten away with it. The fans would have been screaming for their heads.

But for some reason Vaughan is allowed to get away with those statistics.

For me the injuries are not an excuse. Vaughan is payed a weekly wage to do a job and if he is incapble of doing it (for whatever reason) then he has to be shown the door.

If the likes of me and you didn’t do our jobs because we were always off sick management would soon find a way to show us the door.

Footballers should be treated no differently. I understand injuries happen but we are talking about a player who is constantly injured.

Moyes should draw a line. Its simple DO YOUR JOB OR GET OUT.

"For me the injuries are not an excuse"

Thanks for putting us straight, here’s the rest of us thinking he was playing crap and that’s why he is not in the squad.

Dick, if it was you or me, we would not have signed a 5 year employment contract that cannot be terminated unless by a pay off or gross negligence. He has been injured whilst performing his duties and I’m pretty sure that if I was injured doing my work and they tried to sack me, then I would be rubbing my hand for the massive payout I would receive for a wrongful dismissal.

I like Vaughan and think if he can overcome injury and put some time together on the pitch he will be a good player. I’m not sure if he is up to leading the line at Everton and I suspect he might be edged aside for Beckford or somebody with slightly more promise. He must be rueing that miss at Arsenal, if he had scored there that might have put a completely different complexion on his season. I remember two performances from the lad. One at home to Birmingham, came off the bench, scored and banged their central defenders all over the show; the second at home to Oldham in the FA Cup, big chance to shine, missed a sitter in the opening minutes and wasn’t seen again. There does come a time when the label "promising" runs out of currency and I do wonder if Moyes has seen him stop progressing. The Championship is littered with players who have had big chances and not taken them e.g. Leroy Lita.

Dick not only by name it seems Mr Anderson....

You rant: ’’In FIVE years Vaughan has only scored 9 goals. Of course we all know he’s had awful injury problems but the simple fact is 9 goals in 5 years is truely awful. ( like your spelling! ) Imagine if Yakubu, Big Dunc or Kevin Campbell had scored 9 goals in 5 years. They never would have gotten away with it. The fans would have been screaming for their heads.

A few facts for you Dick:

9 goals in 10 starts.

* In his last season at Everton Duncan Ferguson scored one goal in a whole season - the last game - from a rebound from a penalty he had just missed.

* Kevin Campbell scored only 2 goals in his final 12 months at the Club.

* Yakubu has been available for selection since early September and has scored a mere 4 times this season.

Vaughan has been injured a lot, but he has also scored some vital goals and been a useful substitute on many occasions. Maybe he will never be fit enough, but your tirade suggests you should go and look up the definition of the word ’ supporter’.



But for some reason Vaughan is allowed to get away with those statistics.

Good response Karl. The lad has never had a proper chance.He’s a damn sight better than that 20 minute footballer Anichebe.

Karl Masters

My spelling may not be the best but I don’t have time to check it. I’m supposed to be working. Anyway I have a few comments on your reply:-

’’9 goals in 10 starts.’’

Thank you for that statistic. It completely proves my point. In 5 years the guy has only started 10 games. 10 games. If thats not a passenger then I don’t know what is. We pay this guy thousands of pounds a week to start 10 games in 5 years? DISGRACEFUL.

’’* In his last season at Everton Duncan Ferguson scored one goal in a whole season - the last game - from a rebound from a penalty he had just missed.’’

Yes 1 goal that whole season was poor but thats probably why he retired! Lets be fair and look at Big Dunc’s career as a whole:-

Vaughan - 5 years 9 Goals.
Big Dunc (1st spell) - 4 years 41 goals.
Big Dunc (2nd spell) - 6 years 31 goals.

As you can see over a similar number of years Big Dunc in both his spells at Everton contributed way more then James Vaughan.

’’Kevin Campbell scored only 2 goals in his final 12 months at the Club.’

Maybe so but once again that probably explains why it was his final season and when you compare the stats:-

Vaughan - 9 goals in 5 years.
Campbell - 51 goals in 6 years.

’’Yakubu has been available for selection since early September and has scored a mere 4 times this season.’’

Yes Yakubu has been disappointing this season but he has still out scored Vaughan and when you compare the stats:-

Vaughan - 9 goals in 5 years.
Yakubu - 30 goals in 2.5 years.

Plus I have a feeling this could be Yakubu’s last season at Everton.

Sorry mate but you never going to convince me that Vaughan deserves his place in the squad. It may not be his fault but Vaughan simply doesn’t contribute enough to the squad.

Here’s one last statistic for you:-

Vaughan - 5 years 9 goals
Anichebe - 4 years 12 goals.

Even Victor Anichebe has a better record then Vaughan. You know your in trouble when you realise that Anichebe is contributing more to the team then you.

This is the pefect template for an Everton-Galaxy loan program (with, of course, the short-term benefit Landon back in Blue next season). Why shove Vaughn down to the minor leagues in England when he can give it a go in LA under Bruce Arena? Certainly MLS is not top-flight EPL. As an American fan of the EPL, I’m first to say so.

But Galaxy under Arena are strides better than the best team in England’s minor league. Wasn’t the best in this year’s Championship, last year’s disgrace in EPL? A fellow like Vaughn shouldn’t be sent down there on loan (demotion), he should be sent over to America (preferably to Galaxy) as part of a start-up loan program between the two clubs.

Yes, my immediate motivation Landon back in Blue, but I also believe this a good thing for Everton in particular and EPL in general. Who gets loaned from EPL to America? No one. Yet the MLS schedule makes it almost the perfect loan option.

Mr. Moyes could loan a young player to Galaxy for almost their entire season and still have the player back before mid-way EPL season. This has to be better for development than "here and there" time at Everton or being demoted (Let’s face it, that what being sent to the Championship is.)

Naturally, EPL, MLS, La Liga, wherever, the player has to produce to stay on the field. But, using Vaughn here as the example, wouldn’t it be better to send him where his (assumingly) higher level of natural ability gives him a better chance to play, everything else being equal. After all, in MLS, a player paid even lowe EPL wages, still won’t find himself having to sit because someone playing the same position is being paid more money and so has been ordered onto the pitch by ownership. We all know that happens all the time.



It’s been a bug of mine that MLS has loaned or sold very young players to Europe to sit on some bench somewhere "developing", instead of playing them every day in MLS; Freddie Adu and (especially) Jozy Altidore the prime recent examples. But I think this is true in general where player development is concerned.

Sure, the Owens’, Rooneys’, Ronaldos’ (either one), and Henrys of the world get rushed to the top side. Because there’s a good chance they can play and contribute immediately. It’s why they’re the elite. Most everyone else, even those who become stars, need a few years to develop.

Development meaning playing, not sitting watching someone else play week after week or getting minutes in garbage time. Send Vaughn, Goslin, even Rodwell currently "developing" sitting on his ass over to Arena for real playing time, not down to a relegation side fighting hard to become a crap side in EPL. How is that good for a young player’s confidence?

Absolutely hilarious the amount of ’supporters’ criticising a young player for having the audacity to get injured. " Do your job or get out"...nice, real nice. I’m sure JV has never wanted to build on his promise, i’m sure he’s had a whale of a time what with cruciates, severed arteries, dislocated shoulders etc. The poor sod will be on about 15k a week at that and people are labelling him a burden!! Personally i’d rather take a look at proven garbage like Yobo on £50k a week, or Tim Cahill who has offered absolute zero all season on the same money. But no....stick it to the young un eh! Pathetic.

The aim was not to batter the lad, it was merely making a point that he could be injured, or hasn’t impressed in his first week.

I wasn’t saying he was shit on saturday for not scoring a goal off the bench, I was saying he was shit. Bad touches, bad passing etc. (Maybe if he did feel a twinge his mind was on this!).


I think my overall point is that this is probably Vaughans last chance to prove his worth to us and more importantly DM. 2 things, can he keep fit? is he good enough?

I would love it for him to stay fit, bang in a load of goals for Leicester and prove the potential he showed 5 years ago. Not least cause it will help keep the missus happy!

Dick...... You know YOU are in trouble when you wheel out a statistic showing Ferguson scored 72 goals in 10 seasons.

7.2 goals a season for a man that insisted that he always be the highest paid player at the Club - even if somebody came in on more money his wages went up in line. And of course he also managed to get himself sent off 8 times as well, mostly for stupid acts of thuggery.

Vaughan is only 21, but if he is here for another 10 years and only scores 72 goals, gets sent off 8 times and is the highest paid player at the Club for that entire time I will apologise to you Dick in 2020 for doubting your esteemed opinion and foresight.

Somehow, I can’t see that happening! :)

Dick... For the league stats: Anichebe has played 23 games and made 48 sub appearances scoring 7 goals.
Vaughan has made 8 starts and 38 sub appearances scoring 7 goals
Vaughan has never had a decent run in the team (unlike Anichebe) and yet has decent goal to game ratio.

James Flynn I applauded your last comment on this subject as a great idea and asked if anyone knew if the MLS currently loaned in rather than out down to the contracts being held by the MLS rather than the teams themselves. I find the US market a reasonable one given what we got out of Donovan on the pitch and would agree certainly worth a punt. Cynically too I’d add the US also has some great sports surgeons should the loanee(s) get injured. I can’t see how we would be at a loss and the players must surely think Derby or Leicester or LA Galaxy, I know what I’d choose.

Gavin - A couple of things.

First, appreciate your seeing my point on loans. I’m an American EPL fan, so don’t fool myself that top-flight MLS teams (think Galaxy, Real Salt Lake) = top-flight EPL teams. But top-flight MLS teams ARE EPL-level teams. I know many Enlish folk don’t want to heat that, but it’s true. The top Championship sides are relegation-level in EPL and would suck just as much in MLS. Lousy is lousy.

So why send Vaughn down there? He can only see it as the demotion it is. Let’s face it. Moyes clearly isn’t going to use him. Send him to LA. If he has the goods, Arena will bring it out. He strict, but a player’s coach (I still find it hard to believe no EPL team tried Arena as manager).

I see the back and forth here about Vaughn. Well, let’s find out. MLS doesn’t challenge financially for top talent, so Vaughn won’t be up against anything too tough that way. But MLS DOES field fit, running, physical sides. In that way, Vaughn will get all the challenges he wants and needs to prove his durability.

Second, no need to feel cynical about the sports surgeons bit. It’s very true. With American gridiron football, hockey, baseball, and basketball, surgery has taken its greatest leaps in our country.

You know, it was always war that produced the great leaps forward in surgery. It still produces, but sports medicine has in may ways caught up and passed war in producing "miracle" results in surgery.

James thanks for the reply, I wasn’t being cynical about the sports surgeons far from it, I was saying if any loanees got injured I’d rather it was there than some backwater. I’ve watched the US national side come on leaps and bounds, admit to having not seen much MLS as it’s not screened in the UK. My question being and please answer as I am genuinely intrigued, do MLS teams loan players in? Is there a precedent for this or would it be something new to them?

OK Gavin. Misinterpreted about the sports surgeon thing. You're correct. Because America has so many different professional sports leagues, with so much money at stake, joint and muscle surgery advanced faster than ever before. And the rehabilitation methods have advanced along with the initial repair work. One interesting exception though was brought up when Beckham tore his Achilles.

Beckham being the only genuine soccer star known everywhere in America, there was general discussion about his ability to return to playing effectively. The discussion revolved around the announcement that he likely could return to playing in 6 months. In America, an achilles tearing off signals the tearing off of the player's career, regardless of the sport.

Even Galaxy Manager Arena stated he had to go along with the 6 month prognosis since he'd never heard of a pro athlete coming back to play after an achilles tear. So I guess that makes this particular type injury the achilles heel of American surgical technique! (Yes, I know. But I couldn't resist).

Gavin,
Now about the loan-in? If we're talking EPL loan-ins, I'd bet it never happened. I think the time has come for such things. After all they're common across Europe, so why not extend the system into MLS. I have an idea or two on why it hasn't happened.

1. No one's thought to do it. "Why not loan him out to MLS"? "No, it's simply not done". "Why"? "I don't know. It's just not". Happens all the time in other walks of life. Why not football, too. No one's done it yet. I select Moyes to get the ball rolling. Enough talk of EFC doesn't have the money to go Top 4. It's become an excuse and crutch. There's other ways.

Of all the venom I've read spat at Moyes, I've yet to hear anyone say Moyes couldn't spot and sign young talent. OK then, what's next? He still has to compete and win, which means playing time for youngsters tends to be limited.

I say MLS is perfect for these young men. Not sitting on their asses watching someone else play. Experience and confidence come from playing and contributing. So, come on DM, start something new.

2. Money. Not certain how the pay would be worked out. MLS keeps the wages down. If, say, Vaughn was loaned to Galaxy, who pays his wages? Don't know what he makes, but likely he earns more than everyone on Galaxy but Beckham, Donovan, and Arena himself. If the loanee has to foot the whole bill, that would make loan-ins a non-starter under current MLS fiscal policy.

3. MLS was formed specifically to keep youth soccer players playing soccer. As I and others have mentioned here in ToffeeWeb, soccer is far and away the #1 youth participation sport for boys and girls. Until fairly recently, the boys grew up without seeing soccer stars to emulate and aspire to imitating. MLS was formed to give boys something to shoot for professionally.

So there are rules requiring so many of the players on any MLS team be American. With the intentional suppression of wages put in place to prevent a new owner from coming in and throwing $100s of millions around to buy a team. We can see the affect that's had on so many EPL sides over the last few years. With the salary cap in place, MLS teams can't afford top talent. This was put in to ensure developing American players getting to play, instead of sitting on the bench watching top-dollar talent playing in front of them.

4. Although this is only my personal theory, I believe the EPL (and La Liga, Bundesliga, etc) don't want to go looking for trouble.
A. America is a very atrractive place to live. Maybe some young players don't feel so good about going back to (you can fill in the blank), after living in the States.
B. Once the last 5 teams without a soccer-only or soccer-first stadium get a stadium built, MLS will almost certainly move the season schedule to match Europe's.

Then what? After all the years of work and slow progress, MLS owners will be satisfied with being a feeder league for European clubs? Anyone outside America believing that, does not know how Americans think. The wallets will open and the top young talent in the world (think 16-year old Rooney or Ronaldo) WILL be pursued, and heavily, by MLS.

I don't think that theory. I just know how American sports owners think. MLS remaining minor league after all that work will not be an option. Now whether EPL, La Liga, etc owners are discussing that right now IS just my theory, since I've never read of it talked about. But that day is coming and not loaning budding talent to MLS so they can get game experience is a good way to keep that day as far off as possible.

Saying all this, I think that day remains a few years down the road. In the meantime, stop giving young obviously talented players a few minutes here and there in slowly "developing" them. Top MLS soccer is good football.

Don't send the Vaughans of EPL down to the minor league if the intent is to actually develop and keep the fellow. However the language is couched or phrased, the player's been demoted and knows it.