The Mail Bag
Fulham
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Who could not admire that magnificant comeback from Fulham against Juventus, full credit their team and manager.
What I find so frustrating is that man for man we are far superior to them yet we went out of Europe with a whimper against an inferior side to Juve in Sporting Lisbon.
I'm not really a Moyes basher, but I hope he watched and learned what happens when you send a side out to have a real go, rather than with negative tactics and full of fear like he did against Sporting.
Ste Traverse, Posted 19/03/2010 at 02:00:36
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Have to agree with Ste on this one. You make your own luck when you have a go.
That said, we didn’t go out to SP because of the defeat in Lisbon, but because of some shambolic defending in the home game. That changed the tie and gave SP the impetus they needed.
That said, we didn’t go out to SP because of the defeat in Lisbon, but because of some shambolic defending in the home game. That changed the tie and gave SP the impetus they needed.
Fully agree with Ste on this one. Although I am a known admirer of DM, the meek way in which we slunk out of Europa was unforgivable. I think the team was confused about what they were supposed to do in the away Sporting game - defend resolutely, or play an attacking game, and as a result did neither. Surely DM must accept responsibility for the poor showing in all cup competitions this year. (Remember, we were almost up to full strength byt the time we went out of both FA and Europa Cups).
And to complete a bad day, the Dark Side march onwards into the Quarter-Finals, in spite of having a so-called bad season.
And to complete a bad day, the Dark Side march onwards into the Quarter-Finals, in spite of having a so-called bad season.
Gareth, ok yes they were playing against 10 men, but remember we played against Liverpool who had 10 men, anyone care to mention the score?
Also the fact they went 4-1 down on agg to comeback was remarkable.
No i do not believe Fulham are a better team than us, just sometimes you have to admire other’s achievements and I for one take my hat off to them.
Also the fact they went 4-1 down on agg to comeback was remarkable.
No i do not believe Fulham are a better team than us, just sometimes you have to admire other’s achievements and I for one take my hat off to them.
I totally agree that the current Everton squad is far superior to that of Fulham’s but Hodgson is equally superior to Moyes in tactical matters.No doubt when our man has been at the job as long as his older rival we shall begin to see the benefit!
As someone above said we played against 10 men in the Derby for over 50 minutes are were a disgrace so the person who made that comment was shown up. Barring mind Fulham were also chasing the game and it is also were noting that they knocked out the holders with a excellent display in hostile territory.
I hope Fulham do go onto win this competition because aside from being a decent football club this would also show up Darling Moyes for what an overatted manager he is.
I hope Fulham do go onto win this competition because aside from being a decent football club this would also show up Darling Moyes for what an overatted manager he is.
Have to totally agree with this post.
It is so fustrating to see an average Fulham along with the worst RS team I have ever had the pleasure to see progress whilst we are knocked out by distinctly average opposition.
The manner of out defeat against Lisbon still rankles with me as it was primarily down to appalling tactics in both legs by Moyes. I am a Moyes fan but why he didnt bury the game at home instead of trying to protect a 2 goal lead is beyond me. And then to pick the side he did for the return leg and send them out to defend when he had more defensively capable players on the bench (Rodwell and Gosling) is beyond me. And finally how Bulli survived past 30 minutes let alone half time is beyond me.
To all those who think DM will be the next Man U manager, our pathetic showing in europe means that we are totally safe from any danger of Man U poaching our manager.
It is so fustrating to see an average Fulham along with the worst RS team I have ever had the pleasure to see progress whilst we are knocked out by distinctly average opposition.
The manner of out defeat against Lisbon still rankles with me as it was primarily down to appalling tactics in both legs by Moyes. I am a Moyes fan but why he didnt bury the game at home instead of trying to protect a 2 goal lead is beyond me. And then to pick the side he did for the return leg and send them out to defend when he had more defensively capable players on the bench (Rodwell and Gosling) is beyond me. And finally how Bulli survived past 30 minutes let alone half time is beyond me.
To all those who think DM will be the next Man U manager, our pathetic showing in europe means that we are totally safe from any danger of Man U poaching our manager.
Jesus - can you not see the difference? Fulham were 4-1 down after 2 minutes.
I think having a go at Juve was really the only option. Or maybe DM would have tried to keep it tight at 4-1 down?
Wake up - they were competely different circumstances.
I think having a go at Juve was really the only option. Or maybe DM would have tried to keep it tight at 4-1 down?
Wake up - they were competely different circumstances.
I agee with Gareth Humphreys on this one...they were playing against 10 men for a lot of the game, plus anothe sent off late int the second half. They did have luck and also a penalty.
Yes, I admit to "sour grapes"
Yes, I admit to "sour grapes"
The popular refrain on here when we roll over is we don’t have the money??
Well done fulham and well done Lyon turning over Madrid.
Relatively speaking I would add Inter’s win over chelsea to this welcome hole beneath the waterline of said excuse.
Well done fulham and well done Lyon turning over Madrid.
Relatively speaking I would add Inter’s win over chelsea to this welcome hole beneath the waterline of said excuse.
Gareth H, even if we were down 1-4 Moyes would have the entire team in the box for defensive corners and free kicks.
Regardless of the situation it is not in his nature to go hell for leather.
His substitutions in most cases come too late and often perplexing.
Often after only 15 or 20 minutes it seems that everyone except Moyes can see that player x is having a stinker. He will persevere with that player until we go behind. Injuries apart He rarely, if ever, makes a substitution if the game is evenly poised and there to be won..
Regardless of the situation it is not in his nature to go hell for leather.
His substitutions in most cases come too late and often perplexing.
Often after only 15 or 20 minutes it seems that everyone except Moyes can see that player x is having a stinker. He will persevere with that player until we go behind. Injuries apart He rarely, if ever, makes a substitution if the game is evenly poised and there to be won..
Erm, do we people not remember being 2-0 down in Florence after the first leg and then playing Fiorentina off the park in the 2nd, scoring two and were it not for Frey would have scored 3 or 4 more comfortably?
Seriously, some of you have extremely short memories. Yes, I’m not happy with the way we went out in Lisbon but it was a different circumstance to that of Fulham - we were leading the tie and going away, they were behind but at home.
Seriously, some of you have extremely short memories. Yes, I’m not happy with the way we went out in Lisbon but it was a different circumstance to that of Fulham - we were leading the tie and going away, they were behind but at home.
Yes Peter I remember Fiorentina very well - an excellent performance up till about 10 minutes after we scored our 2nd goal and I agree we were unlucky not to score a 3rd in those 10 minutes.
However I also remember that we completely took our foot of the gas in the last 15 minutes of the game probably due to Moyes fearing an away goal and we failed to get the initiative back in extra time - and then we went OUT !
Fulham may have HAD to go for it last night, they may have had some fortune also but they went for it in a way we would never do under Moyes.
However I also remember that we completely took our foot of the gas in the last 15 minutes of the game probably due to Moyes fearing an away goal and we failed to get the initiative back in extra time - and then we went OUT !
Fulham may have HAD to go for it last night, they may have had some fortune also but they went for it in a way we would never do under Moyes.
This is an Everton site not a site about Fulham
The irony of most of these posts is that no one has mentioned that the Juve players did what our team did against Lisbon at home.
Once trezeguet scored they sat back cmpletely and let Fulham come at them.
Once that happened Fulham had nothing to lose and the rest is history as they say.
Fulham were not spectacular by any means last night and hodgson is no genius. They took the game to an arrogant overrated bunch of players called Juventus and beat them.
Once trezeguet scored they sat back cmpletely and let Fulham come at them.
Once that happened Fulham had nothing to lose and the rest is history as they say.
Fulham were not spectacular by any means last night and hodgson is no genius. They took the game to an arrogant overrated bunch of players called Juventus and beat them.
Keith S, This topic was Everton related. If Toffeeweb concentrated soley on Everton what could we use as guide to our place in the world of football.
How could we compare the relative merits of our players with others. It would end up being the blind leading the blind.
How could we compare the relative merits of our players with others. It would end up being the blind leading the blind.
Fulham showed what can be achieved by playing proper attacking football and showing belief instead of setting out like Moyes does. All credit to them, and not a £10m, £12m, or £15m signing in sight, although, of course, Moyes has assembled a side on £3m ;-(
Brian post 5 got it spot on. Moyes is not a tactician, and i doubt wether he ever will be , that strengh should be with his number 2 . ie Motivator & Motivator = motivated team but tactically inept. So when a game calls for tactics we’re fucked, Inter v Chelski was a tactical masterclass, Fulhams game plan had to be attack attack attack.
Hate to say it but Benitez is a good tactician , poor at a lot of other things but not tactics.
Hate to say it but Benitez is a good tactician , poor at a lot of other things but not tactics.
Ajay, cheer up the RS got Benfica, unlike their normal spawn of Satan way of being drawn against farmers through to the final this time they have to beat a decent team to get any further. As far as sour grapes goes I don’t agree, the post is a case of showing teams can go into European games even 3-1 down against Juve (twice Euro champs don’t forget) and still have the balls to go for it. They had to but on occasion Everton have had to in the past only to watch damage limitation instead, remember the Benfica games?
Hodgson is not superior to Moyes! Why has he had to work abroad, often in minor leagues, if he is such a fantastic coach.
Don’t get me started on the way he wants his team to play. Makes Everton and Moyes seem like Brazil. If ever, there was a safety first coach, it is him. But, yes, full credit for wanting, and being able to turn the tie around. Will they win it? No
But, yes, Europe again frustrating, but again, not having a settled defense was the main issue, this year.
What I can agree with, is that Moyes must sort it out. I think he will!
Don’t get me started on the way he wants his team to play. Makes Everton and Moyes seem like Brazil. If ever, there was a safety first coach, it is him. But, yes, full credit for wanting, and being able to turn the tie around. Will they win it? No
But, yes, Europe again frustrating, but again, not having a settled defense was the main issue, this year.
What I can agree with, is that Moyes must sort it out. I think he will!
After that quarterfinal draw, lets hope that Benfica show the same skill and committment, as they did against us.
Some how I feel they wont?
Some how I feel they wont?
Good point Tore, like Inter Milan and the Swiss national side, really ’minor’ jobs them. Did you ever consider that he is a cultured man and maybe he has enjoyed, even preferred to work abroad? It’s hilarious how overrated managers like Moyes and O’Neill become from doing OK in the Premiership playing percentage football with a bunch of £10m+ players.
Must just be the luck of the draw then,that Hodgson with a clearly less talented side can outlast the Moyes Boyes in the Europless League.
Too many Evertonians are prepared to gloss over every failing on the grounds that things are better than they were under Smith!
Too many Evertonians are prepared to gloss over every failing on the grounds that things are better than they were under Smith!
All credit to Fulham, they did a great job against Juve, who seemed to be far too complacent. But I am not a big fan of Fulham to be honest. They are no different to Chelsea, having had 200 million pumped into them by Al Fayed.
But why oh why do we have to use other teams achievements to belittle our own? It was only a few months ago people were pointing out how we should follow WIgans example after they beat a top side, and how Maritnez was a great manager. Well now they are 4 points off relegation, and have a goal difference of -31. Funnily enough, nobody mentions Wigan anymore. Roy Hodgson has done a good job at Fulham, but is he better than Moyes? He has got to keep Fulham up chasing Europe for a few seasons more before he convinces me he is better.
But why oh why do we have to use other teams achievements to belittle our own? It was only a few months ago people were pointing out how we should follow WIgans example after they beat a top side, and how Maritnez was a great manager. Well now they are 4 points off relegation, and have a goal difference of -31. Funnily enough, nobody mentions Wigan anymore. Roy Hodgson has done a good job at Fulham, but is he better than Moyes? He has got to keep Fulham up chasing Europe for a few seasons more before he convinces me he is better.
Some good comments here and glad we can all appreciate another team doing well in Europe. I am heartened to read this post esp after wading thru all that crap about not needing the Europa Cup in another mail bag item. I am sure all those people would have been singing from the rooftops if we had thumped Juve 4-1. Instead of now moaning about how the Europa Cup is not worth the bother, total sour grapes.
And Keith Slinger, what that all about ? Cant we discuss other soccer teams on here? Talk about insular!!!
And Keith Slinger, what that all about ? Cant we discuss other soccer teams on here? Talk about insular!!!
Dan Brierley - spot on I listened with dismay last night when the announcer confirmed Fulhams fantastic win - not because I don’t want Fulham to progress - I wish them luck and hope that they can go on to win the cup - but because I knew that the anti Moyes brigade would start up their biased comparisons.
I then went on to watch the goals/highlights at half time of the red shites match and jesus talk about rub of the green - penalties which every Evertonian and a few Chelsea fans would confirm have seen NOT given, sendings off for nothing etc etc - and as for the last goal - nice cross to far post so badly executed that it fooled everyone and snuck in. I also saw Fulham hit the bar and post which is more akin to Everton’s luck - take away the earlier fortunate incidents (which every team needs to win cup games) and Fulham are plucky losers.
When Roy Hodgeson (who I like and feel is about the only realistic alternative to Moysey should the Moyes baiters get their wish) matches Moyeseys awards (I think he may get one this year and well done to him) and consistant top 6 even top 4 finishes I will concede that Hodgeson is as good as Moyesey but currently he isn’t.
As for the ’you create your own luck’ bollocks - if this was true no one would bother with tactics or fitness or anything else but just work on their luck - any one got any ideas on how you actually do this? as I need to tweak my national lottery training because no matter how hard I train/try/go for it I still don’t seem to be winning.
I then went on to watch the goals/highlights at half time of the red shites match and jesus talk about rub of the green - penalties which every Evertonian and a few Chelsea fans would confirm have seen NOT given, sendings off for nothing etc etc - and as for the last goal - nice cross to far post so badly executed that it fooled everyone and snuck in. I also saw Fulham hit the bar and post which is more akin to Everton’s luck - take away the earlier fortunate incidents (which every team needs to win cup games) and Fulham are plucky losers.
When Roy Hodgeson (who I like and feel is about the only realistic alternative to Moysey should the Moyes baiters get their wish) matches Moyeseys awards (I think he may get one this year and well done to him) and consistant top 6 even top 4 finishes I will concede that Hodgeson is as good as Moyesey but currently he isn’t.
As for the ’you create your own luck’ bollocks - if this was true no one would bother with tactics or fitness or anything else but just work on their luck - any one got any ideas on how you actually do this? as I need to tweak my national lottery training because no matter how hard I train/try/go for it I still don’t seem to be winning.
Yes well done to Fulham and especially their manager - Roy Hodgson. He has done a fine job since taking over there and I contrast his attitude at losing one of his star players - Jimmy Bullard - with that of DM. Basically he didn’t moan, he got on with the job. I think that when it comes to tactics he is one of the most under-rated managers. In the game at Craven Cottage,earlier in the seasom, he out thought Moyes - that game was ours for the taking - but Moyes was too content to hold on to what we had. A too familiar story I am afraid - as someone once said : "Fortune favours the Brave". A pity DM could not be a bit more brave in his tactics.
I don’t think Fulham have a better squad than us - I think they have a manager who is willing to show some imagination and adventure in his tactics, rather than one who is over cautious.
I don’t think Fulham have a better squad than us - I think they have a manager who is willing to show some imagination and adventure in his tactics, rather than one who is over cautious.
Oh yes I forgot to mention that the master tactician that is Roy Hodgeson is not above sending his players out to kick the oppostion up in the air in the hope that the ref wil not do anything as happened when we lost to Fulham in September - Danny Murphey displaying his redshite colours to particualy good effect and Pienaar receiving ’treatment’ from his countrys captain (or have I got that bit wrong?) - are these the sort of tactics that we want Moysey to bone up on?
Jeff : re "Moyesy Baiters" . I don’t regard myself as a Moyesy baiter — just someone who is rather frustrated that he is at times far too cautious.
Why have a £11M striker on the bench? Why always play 4-5-1?
At times I find it hard to believe that this is the same manager who in August 2002 v Spurs at Goodison on the opening day of the season (his first full season in charge of Everton) played a 4-3-3 formation!!!
No 2 games are ever alike.Fulham are a much improved squad this year.Hodgson has got them believing in themselsves and that goes a long way,The away goal was the inspiration as that gave Fulham hope and once Cannavaro went it really unsettled Juve’.Full marks to Fulham for having a go. Still they had a lot of luck but that is well known in cup competitions for helping to cause upsets.
I’m in 2 minds over Fulhams progress.
I am happy for Roy Hodgson as he’s a gentleman in todays game and usually gives honest assement of games and praise of opponents.
However it does hammer home another big chance blown by Everton. Our record in europe is awful under Moyes. the last 16 being as far as we have gone is shocking.
I agree with an above poster Moyes is a great motivator but a not so great tactician.
Fulham had a right go and deserved to go through if we had been in that situation we would have gone 3-1 up only to give away a silly goal late on.
I am happy for Roy Hodgson as he’s a gentleman in todays game and usually gives honest assement of games and praise of opponents.
However it does hammer home another big chance blown by Everton. Our record in europe is awful under Moyes. the last 16 being as far as we have gone is shocking.
I agree with an above poster Moyes is a great motivator but a not so great tactician.
Fulham had a right go and deserved to go through if we had been in that situation we would have gone 3-1 up only to give away a silly goal late on.
Tore Fredlund,
You say moyes will sort things out. How long are you willing to give him? 8 years he’s been here and he is still gutless and clueless, or is he still on his learning curve?
You say moyes will sort things out. How long are you willing to give him? 8 years he’s been here and he is still gutless and clueless, or is he still on his learning curve?
Just in relation to post no.27, I have to disagree with Michael on Jimmy Bullard . Roy Hodgson could not get him out the door fast enough, as he definitley knows Bullards career as a top level footballer is over due to his dodgy knee . 5m was a great deal . For Fulham .
"I’m not really a Moyes basher"? Come on Ste, of course you are. Why else would you introduce Fulham here, a team that has nothing to do with us? So you could take a run at Moyes. Why else. Don’t qualify next time. Have a run at him. You won’t be alone at this site. That’s for sure.
As an American soccer fan and EPL fan, I was happy for Dempsey first (wasn’t that a goal!) and the EPL side second.
How Moyes handles next year’s squad is the key to me. We’re a talented side and whereas overall shape is critical on the pitch, everything has to be geared to the attack.
ManU is the template. They keep it tight everywhere but gear all of it towards putting constant pressure on the opponent’s keeper. Ferguson’s earned his way with this well-organized, attacking style. Let’s see DM do it next year.
Maybe I haven’t been around here long enough to develop the cynicism of some. But it looks like Moyes got us from near-relegation status to mid-pack status. That has to stand for something. I’m thinking and hoping he’s the guy for the final leap to EPL Silverware contention.
Anyway, God Bless Fulham, but I’m not really interested beyond how Dempsey is doing leading up to the WC. I come in here to talk Toffee.
As an American soccer fan and EPL fan, I was happy for Dempsey first (wasn’t that a goal!) and the EPL side second.
How Moyes handles next year’s squad is the key to me. We’re a talented side and whereas overall shape is critical on the pitch, everything has to be geared to the attack.
ManU is the template. They keep it tight everywhere but gear all of it towards putting constant pressure on the opponent’s keeper. Ferguson’s earned his way with this well-organized, attacking style. Let’s see DM do it next year.
Maybe I haven’t been around here long enough to develop the cynicism of some. But it looks like Moyes got us from near-relegation status to mid-pack status. That has to stand for something. I’m thinking and hoping he’s the guy for the final leap to EPL Silverware contention.
Anyway, God Bless Fulham, but I’m not really interested beyond how Dempsey is doing leading up to the WC. I come in here to talk Toffee.
"Too many Evertonians are prepared to gloss over every failing on the grounds that things are better than they were under Smith!"
One of the popular themes of the Moyes bashers. There simply is no-one who glosses over Moyes’ failings, not one single person. We just react to them in a different way to you whingers and weigh them up within the context of all the things he succeeds at. Hence we criticise Moyes when we think he’s got stuff wrong, but still back him overall. I can’t understand why you find that so difficult to get your head round.
One of the popular themes of the Moyes bashers. There simply is no-one who glosses over Moyes’ failings, not one single person. We just react to them in a different way to you whingers and weigh them up within the context of all the things he succeeds at. Hence we criticise Moyes when we think he’s got stuff wrong, but still back him overall. I can’t understand why you find that so difficult to get your head round.
Liam
The notion that we lost the game against Lisbon in the first leg is a load of rubbish. We lost that game as soon as the lineup was named and a ball was kicked.
The 2nd half against Sporting was a pathetic capitulation obviously the manager was happy with the first 45 minutes despite clinging on to our advantage by the skin of our teeth.
Mentioning Fulham is apt as they had the exact same scoreline in the first leg against Shaktar as we did versus Sporting a 2-1 home victory.
Hodgson did not wank on about an away goal or try and protect the lead, no Fulham players thought that their opponents had the advantage, their team did not look terrified when playing in an intimidating ground, they had a gameplan and deserved to beat the champions.
Contrast this with Everton in Lisbon, we never played like we believed we would go through and that was the key difference. The team and the manager display an inferiority complex in big away games.
Anyway after all that Fulham deserve everything they get after the last two rounds and of the remaining sides left I hope they win it as well as Everton getting a record breaking number 7 on Saturday.
The notion that we lost the game against Lisbon in the first leg is a load of rubbish. We lost that game as soon as the lineup was named and a ball was kicked.
The 2nd half against Sporting was a pathetic capitulation obviously the manager was happy with the first 45 minutes despite clinging on to our advantage by the skin of our teeth.
Mentioning Fulham is apt as they had the exact same scoreline in the first leg against Shaktar as we did versus Sporting a 2-1 home victory.
Hodgson did not wank on about an away goal or try and protect the lead, no Fulham players thought that their opponents had the advantage, their team did not look terrified when playing in an intimidating ground, they had a gameplan and deserved to beat the champions.
Contrast this with Everton in Lisbon, we never played like we believed we would go through and that was the key difference. The team and the manager display an inferiority complex in big away games.
Anyway after all that Fulham deserve everything they get after the last two rounds and of the remaining sides left I hope they win it as well as Everton getting a record breaking number 7 on Saturday.
The difference is RH. DM’s Everton could play against a Juve with 9 men and still not get a result. RH is steeped in european football and has vast experience. DM has a hell of a lot to learn against European opposition.
Roy Hodgson is an excellent tactician. He has a huge wealth of tactical knowledge, not just the number of years, but different countries, different types of clubs and International and club football. He has been there and done it all. He can therefore call on all this knowledge and uses it correctly. Everton is only Moyes’ second managerial job, both in the same country and very limited experience.
Well done Hodgson. I’d like to think Moyes is still learning but I’m not sure whether he will ever get the tactical nous that Hodgson or Mourinho has. Moyes is great in the transfer market, but it is that lack of experience that will always let Everton down.
Well done Hodgson. I’d like to think Moyes is still learning but I’m not sure whether he will ever get the tactical nous that Hodgson or Mourinho has. Moyes is great in the transfer market, but it is that lack of experience that will always let Everton down.
A manager picks the side and apart from bollocking them at half time cannot do a thing once they are on the pitch...DM must have been as mystified as anyone over ’his’ teams display against Sporting....no one so far has blamed the players, surely they must take the biggest share of any blame.....its up to them to perform and EFC as a team DID NOT !!!!
James Flynn, Isn’t NEXT YEAR always ’key’with Moyes? Usually something goes wrong early season-HIS contract,Lescott leaving,injuries (no other club has those,of course) etc- which means he’s playing catch-up from November.But all is rosy by Easter and we can look forward to sunnier times NEXT YEAR.!
Oh, I forgot-it’s all Blue Bill’s fault. How convenient.
Oh, I forgot-it’s all Blue Bill’s fault. How convenient.
Brian Noble. HA! You can't apply that to me. I haven't been here but 3 months and what I see is a talented side getting most of its injured back. I can understand the frustration though. EFC is mid-pack EPL for what, 3-4 years now? Everyone wants the final step taken. Vying for Silverware.
Now I'm a Toffee fan. If this obviously talented side doesn't make the final leap upward, maybe I'll develop the cynicism so prevalent here regarding Moyes. But not yet because I have no reason. I'm pissed-off when we lose, but I have to see the team come out the gate "And there off" with the rest of the field and run the whole race. If I think Moyes's the problem, you and others will find a convert in me.
I simply feel from what I've seen, that next year is going to be a very good one for EFC.
Now I'm a Toffee fan. If this obviously talented side doesn't make the final leap upward, maybe I'll develop the cynicism so prevalent here regarding Moyes. But not yet because I have no reason. I'm pissed-off when we lose, but I have to see the team come out the gate "And there off" with the rest of the field and run the whole race. If I think Moyes's the problem, you and others will find a convert in me.
I simply feel from what I've seen, that next year is going to be a very good one for EFC.
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1 Posted 19/03/2010 at 02:55:32
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