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Thinking out loud
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Been today... average; but 2-0 is welcome.
Couple of thoughts:
Firstly, having watched a lot of footie on tele this week, it has crossed my mind that a number of top teams are declining... And whether next season we will have a squad that will challenge for a higher Premier League finish?
Secondly, I understand that we could qualify for Europe next season; I'm not quite sure of the rules... but it seems we will have to catch one more team.
Which one?
Ian Smitham, Posted 21/03/2010 at
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Ian, I'm not sure if the European qualification rules are what you aren't sure of but if so:
Top 4 make the Champions League.
5th place makes the Europa League.
The winners of the Carling Cup and the FA Cup make the Europa league.
If the Cup winner(s) already qualify via the standings, the 6th and 7th place teams can qualify for the Europa League.
Practically speaking: Man U, we can assume, will qualify for the CL via the standings so that opens up the 6th spot. If the team that wins the FA Cup qualifies via the standings, that opens up the 7th spot.
Hope that clears things up. Cheers!
Top 4 make the Champions League.
5th place makes the Europa League.
The winners of the Carling Cup and the FA Cup make the Europa league.
If the Cup winner(s) already qualify via the standings, the 6th and 7th place teams can qualify for the Europa League.
Practically speaking: Man U, we can assume, will qualify for the CL via the standings so that opens up the 6th spot. If the team that wins the FA Cup qualifies via the standings, that opens up the 7th spot.
Hope that clears things up. Cheers!
Clarification: Man U won the Carling Cup, that's why the 6th spot is open.
This is very far from being carried away.
I saw the Holy Trinity grind out a result now and then, including the run-in to the championship in 1970. Derek Mountfield , as I recall, knocked in a few winners for us at the end of a slog of a game when we were the last team standing. Not always stylish, but winning fairly and squarely.
There's never been an easy game against Bolton has there. And they worked hard for a result today. Their new manager, like Brum's, did a Moyes and got the best out of his lads (Kevin Davies always frightens me to death anyway).
Clean sheet. Two goals - the second a real prize winner - and three points. The hardest games of the season are coming up. This is exactly the mood the team needs to get us back to Europe next season.
And how about this for a headline -
LEON OSMAN - IMPACT SUB
On Toffeeweb?
I saw the Holy Trinity grind out a result now and then, including the run-in to the championship in 1970. Derek Mountfield , as I recall, knocked in a few winners for us at the end of a slog of a game when we were the last team standing. Not always stylish, but winning fairly and squarely.
There's never been an easy game against Bolton has there. And they worked hard for a result today. Their new manager, like Brum's, did a Moyes and got the best out of his lads (Kevin Davies always frightens me to death anyway).
Clean sheet. Two goals - the second a real prize winner - and three points. The hardest games of the season are coming up. This is exactly the mood the team needs to get us back to Europe next season.
And how about this for a headline -
LEON OSMAN - IMPACT SUB
On Toffeeweb?
Which one?
This time tomorrow we should be 6 points behind the RS with a game in hand on them.
Possibly Villa, but hopefully that lot, if not both.
This time tomorrow we should be 6 points behind the RS with a game in hand on them.
Possibly Villa, but hopefully that lot, if not both.
European Qualification:
Unlike the League Cup, the runners-up in the FA cup qualify if the winners are already in.
Unlike the League Cup, the runners-up in the FA cup qualify if the winners are already in.
Fully agree with David and Keith. Neither the 60's not the 80's were always feasts of flowing football by any means.
As to the top teams being in decline: yes they are, but my guess is that thye will strengthen thus leaving us with the same mountain to climb.
As to the top teams being in decline: yes they are, but my guess is that thye will strengthen thus leaving us with the same mountain to climb.
I would be glad if we missed out on a European place next season because its an unescersary distraction.
If Moyes can prepare his squad before the season starts instead of ten weeks into it and we have a fully fit squad (90% will do) and one or two additions, we have a chance of making the champions league or better still winning the Premier League. Man United will have to spend this summer and so will Chelsea as their squads are ageing and new players take time to bed in. If the Shite loose Torres TFSW will go or the other way around and they will not be able to buy their way out of it. Arsenal are comming good but could loose a player or two.
You just never know.
If Moyes can prepare his squad before the season starts instead of ten weeks into it and we have a fully fit squad (90% will do) and one or two additions, we have a chance of making the champions league or better still winning the Premier League. Man United will have to spend this summer and so will Chelsea as their squads are ageing and new players take time to bed in. If the Shite loose Torres TFSW will go or the other way around and they will not be able to buy their way out of it. Arsenal are comming good but could loose a player or two.
You just never know.
An observation from yesterday.
It appears that we have more invention in midfield when Osman(smashing player) plays rather than Cahill.
Have we now moved on from Cahill type players?
With teams being more and organised defensively and difficult to breakdown it is important that more players with craft and guile are included in the team.
It appears that we have more invention in midfield when Osman(smashing player) plays rather than Cahill.
Have we now moved on from Cahill type players?
With teams being more and organised defensively and difficult to breakdown it is important that more players with craft and guile are included in the team.
Andrew I think we need both, not every team we play will be alehouse sides like Bolton keen to kick the crap out of our players, in essence that's what gives a squad depth. The same way my argument about Coleman offering something different to the right back slot from virtually identical players in Neville and Hibbert.
I agree with you Gavin but I do think that we look a better footballing side with Osman instead of Cahill.
Cahill has been a great servant to the club and I know that he may be a bit off the pace as he has just comeback form injury but I do think that maybe we have moved up a notch now from the 'blunt instrument approach'.He still has a place with us but maybe not on a regular basis.
Cahill has been a great servant to the club and I know that he may be a bit off the pace as he has just comeback form injury but I do think that maybe we have moved up a notch now from the 'blunt instrument approach'.He still has a place with us but maybe not on a regular basis.
I do wish Michael Kenrick would refrain from "thinking out loud."
Everton win.Again.Equalling a twenty year home winning streak.Yet the editorial simply cannot risk having a dig: "Stutter-stop reign," is the Socratic sentiment he uses to acknowledge Moyes' 8th anniversary in charge.
Kenrick,and Lloyd do a fantastic job on this site,and their dedication in support of our club is unimpeachable.But do me a favour: combine the league finishes of messrs' Walker,Royle,Kendall and Smith combined,then stack it up against Moyes' tenure,and you'll find that an FA Cup aside,it doesn't compare favourably at all.
The previous FOUR regimes were stuttering.Not this one..
Everton win.Again.Equalling a twenty year home winning streak.Yet the editorial simply cannot risk having a dig: "Stutter-stop reign," is the Socratic sentiment he uses to acknowledge Moyes' 8th anniversary in charge.
Kenrick,and Lloyd do a fantastic job on this site,and their dedication in support of our club is unimpeachable.But do me a favour: combine the league finishes of messrs' Walker,Royle,Kendall and Smith combined,then stack it up against Moyes' tenure,and you'll find that an FA Cup aside,it doesn't compare favourably at all.
The previous FOUR regimes were stuttering.Not this one..
Kevin, if the club had addressed it's shortfall of playing staff known before the start of the current season we may well have been firm favourites for fourth, unfortunately we had another "stuttering" start to the season similar to our start last season. All teams have ups and downs including the top four, we just care more about our own failings.
Stuttering start to the season — I agree with that, Gavin. I presume that's what the editorial was referring to now, in which case I stand corrected, cheers.
If the club had 'addressed' the lack of playing staff in the close season, we would probably also be facing a nine point deduction for going to administration. Thankfully, our board and manager have been shrewd in the market yet again, and improved the squad without spending too much.
Our stuttering start was down to injuries to key players, and the late loss of Lescott. And now we have come through that, our form is European place standard. We have a strong squad now, and if we can keep them fit and motivated, we will see how far Moyes has come. The problem will come if teams come in for players, and they want the move. We end up having to bed in new players again with little time to integrate them.
Our stuttering start was down to injuries to key players, and the late loss of Lescott. And now we have come through that, our form is European place standard. We have a strong squad now, and if we can keep them fit and motivated, we will see how far Moyes has come. The problem will come if teams come in for players, and they want the move. We end up having to bed in new players again with little time to integrate them.
To be honest, I was looking for a debate as to which team we can overtake, and after today with teams so many points ahead but, with games in hand and forthcoming fixtures, I wondered whether and where we can end up.
Every ambitious team has to hang on to their squad and STRENGTHEN to improve along with the other top teams. We need a lot of midfield players as nowadays its more and more difficult to last a full game at pace and the midfield players do most of the running.
We also need decent strikers to push the regulars and be available to come on to change games when things are not going so well. Our strike force is iffy and injury-prone so I see the need to sign a Doyle or Fuller as they would be within our budget (I hope). I would also love a real winger eg; Valencia who would take on the fullback instead of passing sideways or backwards and he would put a stop to overlapping fullbacks running at our wide defenders.
Donovan put the brakes on Ashley Cole and Gary Neville as they were needed defensively... it is difficult to be able to prophesy which side we could realistically threaten for 4th place, but we need ambition and money to make a serious challenge.
Dan,I think that if our board and management had been shrewd then the late loss of Lescott would have been the early loss of Lescott. We knew for some time that city were interested and the deal should have been done on our terms ie in July.
Andy, at the risk of going over old ground here, there was no way we were getting £22m in July. This was Moyes's point, and why he was fuming at City. If they had bid the right money early enough, the deal would have been done and we would have had time to rebuild. But they dragged it out in the media and the rest is now history.
I don't think there is any lack of shrewdness on our manager's part. It seems that most observers think he was extremely shrewd in getting the money he did for Lescott. Deal of the decade.
Now, has he spent it wisely enough? That's another question.
I don't think there is any lack of shrewdness on our manager's part. It seems that most observers think he was extremely shrewd in getting the money he did for Lescott. Deal of the decade.
Now, has he spent it wisely enough? That's another question.
Ian
Let me help by trying to join the debate you hoped to start.
I think City and Tottenham are out of reach. I hope one of them finishes 4th, and frankly looking at the table this seems the most likely outcome.
However Liverpool and Villa have more easy run ins (than City or Spurs - as do we), which will make it hard to call. It's probably a bit too early to do a game by game analysis of likely results. But our form is currently stronger than that of either Villa and Liverpool. Both have other distractions (Europa League and FA Cup) and I honestly think our first XI from our currently fit players is better than either of them.
If we keep playing like we currently are we could well make 60 points - usually that is plenty enough, but the bar seems higher this year. We will also need to hope that Villa or Portsmouth do not make the cup final, otherwise they will steal the spot for 7th.
Most likely Villa will be the one to wobble, as they did last year when we made up similar ground to overtake them for 5th place. We also have a chance to play them at Villa Park and a win there would recover more than half the ground between us. The Dark Side always seem to be able to avert genuine disaster, so Villa is more likely. I feel we have a 50% chance of catching one of them.
On the other hand it may be amusing if the Dark Side finish 7th but Portsmouth appear in the Europa League next season for making the Cup Final. Almost worth us finishing 8th to enjoy that moment.
Let me help by trying to join the debate you hoped to start.
I think City and Tottenham are out of reach. I hope one of them finishes 4th, and frankly looking at the table this seems the most likely outcome.
However Liverpool and Villa have more easy run ins (than City or Spurs - as do we), which will make it hard to call. It's probably a bit too early to do a game by game analysis of likely results. But our form is currently stronger than that of either Villa and Liverpool. Both have other distractions (Europa League and FA Cup) and I honestly think our first XI from our currently fit players is better than either of them.
If we keep playing like we currently are we could well make 60 points - usually that is plenty enough, but the bar seems higher this year. We will also need to hope that Villa or Portsmouth do not make the cup final, otherwise they will steal the spot for 7th.
Most likely Villa will be the one to wobble, as they did last year when we made up similar ground to overtake them for 5th place. We also have a chance to play them at Villa Park and a win there would recover more than half the ground between us. The Dark Side always seem to be able to avert genuine disaster, so Villa is more likely. I feel we have a 50% chance of catching one of them.
On the other hand it may be amusing if the Dark Side finish 7th but Portsmouth appear in the Europa League next season for making the Cup Final. Almost worth us finishing 8th to enjoy that moment.
David, Portsmouth have already been told win, lose or draw the FA Cup they will no way be appearing in Europe next season.
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1 Posted 20/03/2010 at 23:58:28
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If we are to progress these are the games we must win, when we don't play well but get over the line