The Mail Bag
Wolves in 48 hrs - FOCUS
Comments (62)
Great result at City, blah blah....lads, it's gone.
I've heard enough of it now.
"What's our name"? Everton!!!
We have a three-time LMA Manager of the year, 8 years of stability, a squad packed full of class players with values that probably rank them far above many of Manchester City's over-priced, under-working mercenary squad... so why are we all backslapping and celebrating like we have won the World Cup because we have taken 3 points from them??
It's nothing less than I absolutely EXPECT from this manager and his squad of players and when they achieve results last night they are simply matching my expectations, not exceeding them.
A quick glance at the league table — if we can come down from the giddiness for a second — will tell you that we are FAILING.
With a squad like ours, to not AT LEAST gain re-entry into that stepping-stone Europa League would constitute and absolute disaster.
So I ask of you all... let's remember where we have come from and let's remember where we are heading to... and keep our eyes on the prize.
Everton FC is still one of THE biggest clubs in this country. We have some wonderful players and our fans are amongst the most passionate and loyal in the land.
Let's start acting like it and remember what we need to do to achieve our ambitions.
Wolverhampton Wanderers away, Saturday 3:00pm.
Nothing else matters.
Neil Steele, Posted 25/03/2010 at 15:31:19
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Ha. The Kenrick-Steele duo! "we're not negative we're just realistic!!"
Guys, if we can't get excited and pleased about ending the unbeaten home record of one of a team benefiitng from around £200 m worth of investment into players then when can we get happy!!
A wise philosopher once said 'you must not fail to enjoy the present by always looking to the future or past'.
However, said philosopher was not a football manager and i do TOTALLY AGREE that we need to focus on Wolves. Would be a shame if the great result yesterday came to count for nothing due to another inconsistent display and loss of points.
Just agonising to think where we could be were it not for some of the insipid early season displays!!
Guys, if we can't get excited and pleased about ending the unbeaten home record of one of a team benefiitng from around £200 m worth of investment into players then when can we get happy!!
A wise philosopher once said 'you must not fail to enjoy the present by always looking to the future or past'.
However, said philosopher was not a football manager and i do TOTALLY AGREE that we need to focus on Wolves. Would be a shame if the great result yesterday came to count for nothing due to another inconsistent display and loss of points.
Just agonising to think where we could be were it not for some of the insipid early season displays!!
We should beware Wolves actually. They have had a couple of good results and more or less secured their Premiership status for next season.
For some reason Wolves seem to be an awkward club for Everton.
This season we were lucky Bilyletdinov rescued a point at Goodison.
I still remember the last game Everton played at Wolves. It was Osman's first game and he scored within 3 minutes. We lost that one 2-1.
Wolves will be difficult. Doyle will work his ass off and Everton are going to have to perform well to beat them.
If we did beat Wolves though after that its a home fixture to West Ham. A couple more wins and Everton would really be involved in the race for 4th.
For some reason Wolves seem to be an awkward club for Everton.
This season we were lucky Bilyletdinov rescued a point at Goodison.
I still remember the last game Everton played at Wolves. It was Osman's first game and he scored within 3 minutes. We lost that one 2-1.
Wolves will be difficult. Doyle will work his ass off and Everton are going to have to perform well to beat them.
If we did beat Wolves though after that its a home fixture to West Ham. A couple more wins and Everton would really be involved in the race for 4th.
If you want to whine when we lose and not allow yourself to enjoy a victory then your leading a very miserable life lad.
We are the only team to beat City on their own midden this season - regardless of what you think of them and Evertonians everywhere have been entitled to enjoy it.
Yes it is time to focus on Wolves, and if we lose on Saturday last night will mean fuck all, but any Evertonian who feels genuine pain when we lose is entitled enjoy our victories.
We are the only team to beat City on their own midden this season - regardless of what you think of them and Evertonians everywhere have been entitled to enjoy it.
Yes it is time to focus on Wolves, and if we lose on Saturday last night will mean fuck all, but any Evertonian who feels genuine pain when we lose is entitled enjoy our victories.
Completely agree with the above post - although I would say it's not exactly wrong to celebrate a win at Middle East-lands.
The problem is our inconsistency. The last time we pulled off a sensational result, we then went to Portugal and put in the worst performance I've seen from an Everton side since 1994.
So in that sense, I completely agree with the original post - the Man City win means nothing if we drop any points against Wolves.
The problem is our inconsistency. The last time we pulled off a sensational result, we then went to Portugal and put in the worst performance I've seen from an Everton side since 1994.
So in that sense, I completely agree with the original post - the Man City win means nothing if we drop any points against Wolves.
Unbelievably there are loads of divvies who are just not happy with Moyes whatever he does.
They're embarassing. Its a shame the club cant sack fans.
Yes, if you look purely at the current table and remove it from the context of the transfer farce and injury crisis that wrecked the beginning of the season, we are "failing", certainly in terms of building on last season's 5th place finish.
Sure, you can't simply blame injuries on everything and both the players that were playing and the manager must carry some responsibility for the poor results against the likes of Stoke and Wolves and a lack of home wins between September and December.
BUT, the fact that we're now doing so well with almost all our players back fit and Moyes able to rotate out those who aren't performing speaks for itself: the team is doing a brilliant job of bouncing back from adversity and a poor first half of the season. I wouldn't call that "failing".
And I can still be giddy from yesterday while still being wary of Wolves. Hopefully the team can be too!
Fuck sake Neil you weren't by any chance on your way to Damascus recently. A few days ago you were posting that we were shite and now winning at Man City and hauling back Aston Villa, Liverpool etc should be acheived without Moyes & the boys breaking sweat!
I just want to enjoy this for at least another 24 hours....
But Wolves: the basic premise of your post is well taken. We need to bring the A game. They are playing well as of late, and yes, I'm scared.
But I'd rather be giddy until Friday night... Scared will come soon enough.
Must win... again!
But Wolves: the basic premise of your post is well taken. We need to bring the A game. They are playing well as of late, and yes, I'm scared.
But I'd rather be giddy until Friday night... Scared will come soon enough.
Must win... again!
Lyndon, I get to meet a lot of football supporters not just Evertonians and none of them agree with your statement, the general sentiment is that the injury crisis cost us dear, and of course our now ritual shenanigans that is known as close season
Read it again, David. I think we're in agreement — Lyndon
Not only did we have to cope with long term absentees Arteta, Jags etc, but a number of players, Fellaini being one of them, were just getting over a viral infection, Johnny H was still getting bedding in (and if I remember rightly, the two of them were getting slated by TW at the time), and DM was having to rotate the back 4 practically every game.
You can’t close your eyes to the piss poor luck that we had with injuries, and other posters can’t call everyone a Moyes apologist that points it out. But to get back to Neil Steele’s post, yes I want Everton be the force they were, but I was watching a debate on Sky and John Barnes stated that the RS are at a disadvantage because they cannot attract the really big players (Ladyboy excepted, and he put that down to the Spanish connection). And if they can’t get the really top players that leaves us further down the pecking order, and we haven’t got the ability to throw money at great players the way Citteh can.
To state the bleedin’ obvious, good players make good teams, great players make great teams, and in the inverse is true. And at the moment we haven’t got the money to offer a great player silly money to play in a team that hasn’t got a CL pedigree, and although it hurts to say this, if the young rising star comes on the market and the Sky 3 +RS and some top foreign clubs are also sniffing round, they won’t come to Everton.
Our best hope is through the Arteta, Pienaar route; good or potentially good players that have lost their way or maybe even find that elusive billionaire Our Bill goes on about.
I and most evertonians are getting excited because we're turning into a really good team with a great squad. not just my heart but my head and I think why everybody is getting carried away is because we all believe we are just 3-4 players off from challenging not for just top four but the title.
After the defeat in the Cup Final and dismal start to the season, not many people thought we had a realistic chance of ever getting into top 4 without money. To go from this, to believing we're getting very close to best teams in the country is why I'm so giddy.
Granted we still don't have the best players but what a team we now have.
After the defeat in the Cup Final and dismal start to the season, not many people thought we had a realistic chance of ever getting into top 4 without money. To go from this, to believing we're getting very close to best teams in the country is why I'm so giddy.
Granted we still don't have the best players but what a team we now have.
Good shout. Yes it was a superb win and an enjoyable win, but I will take as much pleasure from a 2-0 away at Wolves. Partly because I'll be sat with my old man at the match and can give him some stick (he's a dyed in the wool Wolves man), but also because we'll be kicking on up the table and moving into contention for a European place and additional revenue for a higher league finish. There are many arguments that can be made that we should / could have acheived more this season, but I think we need to kick on and make sure we acheive the best possible finish we can from what remains of the season - starting at Wolves, 3pm at dingle central (sorry Dad!)
No doubt Cahill and Arteta are doing nothing but talk about their goals, Rodwell about his great run, check and pass, and Moyes about some 'pal-wally-tally', or whatever they say in Glasgow, assaulting him.
Then again, it could have been business as usual at Finch Farm this morning as they prepare for the next match.
I'd just love to hear the mix of accents - but all speaking English - during the tea break.
And its a point I've made here many times before. Moyes will bring talent from anywhere, but they either can, or quickly learn how to speak Anglish. Well, best to keep in with the boss.
Then again, it could have been business as usual at Finch Farm this morning as they prepare for the next match.
I'd just love to hear the mix of accents - but all speaking English - during the tea break.
And its a point I've made here many times before. Moyes will bring talent from anywhere, but they either can, or quickly learn how to speak Anglish. Well, best to keep in with the boss.
Neil, nice to hear some reality. Unfortunately, reality seems to mean negativity to many on this site. David, what cost us dear was the. total mismanagement of last summer. We are not the only club with injuries,
Andy it has nothing to do with "reality" per se, a lot of the responses are because when we have a bad game, there are tons of posts claiming that so ad so is the Devil incarnate and so is effing useless etc, yet when we have a win that puts a smile on our faces we are met with a post of "It's only one game" etc.
If it's fine for numerous posts slagging off Everton/Moyes then it's a bit cheeky having a post on here telling people that they are going over the top (irony in its truest form)
If it's fine for numerous posts slagging off Everton/Moyes then it's a bit cheeky having a post on here telling people that they are going over the top (irony in its truest form)
Andy, I half agree with your point about mismanagement. Why Everton allowed the sale of Lescott to become so protracted and turn into a saga is beyond me.
However, injuries to Jags and Arteta, our players of the season the year before, took many more months than forecast and I do put down just to bad luck.
However, injuries to Jags and Arteta, our players of the season the year before, took many more months than forecast and I do put down just to bad luck.
What a strange post.
It seems to have escaped your notice that we are football FANS, not managers or players. And as FANS, we're perfectly entitled to enjoy results as much as we like.
If Cahill and Arteta had spent today back-slapping I'd be a bit worried. Why? Because it would almost certainly negatively affect the performance against Wolves this weekend. But what on earth is wrong with fans enjoying victories? Why do you think we have a duty to now focus on the next game? What difference will that make, really?
I spend all day being focused, serious and hyper-motivated at work. I'm not about to start doing the same when it comes to my football team.
I'm a FAN, not a player or manager, and that gives me the right to enjoy victories as I please. I can only assume Neil reacts to Everton victories by scribbling furiously on his tactics board in preparation for the next game. Fair enough, but it won't make a blind bit of difference and it's not half as fun as cracking a smile from time to time.
It seems to have escaped your notice that we are football FANS, not managers or players. And as FANS, we're perfectly entitled to enjoy results as much as we like.
If Cahill and Arteta had spent today back-slapping I'd be a bit worried. Why? Because it would almost certainly negatively affect the performance against Wolves this weekend. But what on earth is wrong with fans enjoying victories? Why do you think we have a duty to now focus on the next game? What difference will that make, really?
I spend all day being focused, serious and hyper-motivated at work. I'm not about to start doing the same when it comes to my football team.
I'm a FAN, not a player or manager, and that gives me the right to enjoy victories as I please. I can only assume Neil reacts to Everton victories by scribbling furiously on his tactics board in preparation for the next game. Fair enough, but it won't make a blind bit of difference and it's not half as fun as cracking a smile from time to time.
Lescott was taken by a 5 year deal guaranteeing wealth his family could only imagine with a lottery win - all for a signature. And he played like it against Arsenal.
Moyes tried to keep him.
In the end we bought Distin and Heitinga with the money.
All teams get injuries, of course. We, at one stage, had ten outfield players who could have been first team starters, out injured. Tell me another team who have had that.
Not the Shite. They have 43 first team squad - mind you, they don't know each others names, and the manager doesn't know who some of them are either.
And we should have gone to the bank to buy a world class midfield creator when we have Mikel on the books?
You don't half get some bollox now and then,
Moyes tried to keep him.
In the end we bought Distin and Heitinga with the money.
All teams get injuries, of course. We, at one stage, had ten outfield players who could have been first team starters, out injured. Tell me another team who have had that.
Not the Shite. They have 43 first team squad - mind you, they don't know each others names, and the manager doesn't know who some of them are either.
And we should have gone to the bank to buy a world class midfield creator when we have Mikel on the books?
You don't half get some bollox now and then,
Paul, your post has actually made me crack a smile.
Don't confuse what Neil's saying with the negativity we endure on this site. Something unfortunately the editor made a point of doing in the first post.
Where I'm happy to slam some of the ridiculous negativity that appears on here, I agree with much of what Neil is saying. Basically I read it as "good win but it doesn't matter now, Wolves does". This is exactly the attitude I hope the players and manager have.
However, frankly, it doesn't really matter what the fans think about, so feel free to bask in the glory of 6pts off the 'big club' that is Man City, enjoy the result for as long as you like, all the way up to Saturday lunchtime. In a way Neil, your post is a bit unnecessary, as if you might as well just let people bask given that the result actually means more than the 3pts given all the Lescott/Hughes bullshit. It simply isn't doing any harm. I suppose you think it makes us look small time, but they did piss us off, and they were unbeaten at home.
And Mr Kenrick, if you want to show that you expect more of Everton, and that your moaning is because you have high standards, Neil's shown you the way to do it. To my eyes he's said the same sort of things as you always claim to be saying when you defend yourself, without ever once slagging off a member of the club, management or players.
Where I'm happy to slam some of the ridiculous negativity that appears on here, I agree with much of what Neil is saying. Basically I read it as "good win but it doesn't matter now, Wolves does". This is exactly the attitude I hope the players and manager have.
However, frankly, it doesn't really matter what the fans think about, so feel free to bask in the glory of 6pts off the 'big club' that is Man City, enjoy the result for as long as you like, all the way up to Saturday lunchtime. In a way Neil, your post is a bit unnecessary, as if you might as well just let people bask given that the result actually means more than the 3pts given all the Lescott/Hughes bullshit. It simply isn't doing any harm. I suppose you think it makes us look small time, but they did piss us off, and they were unbeaten at home.
And Mr Kenrick, if you want to show that you expect more of Everton, and that your moaning is because you have high standards, Neil's shown you the way to do it. To my eyes he's said the same sort of things as you always claim to be saying when you defend yourself, without ever once slagging off a member of the club, management or players.
The biggest danger for us all is unrealistic expectations. If we get a result Saturday, it will be because we grind it out and outfight Wolves who are a bloody good side.
The 1970s side, sublime as it was, ground out many close wins... and the 1985-87 team certainly did. We are developing into a very good side now but we will slip up and Wolves are a big banana skin.
Somebody asked what about Fellaini? He has to wait his turn now and fight to get into the side. What a good position to be in.
Brendan, yes I have made criticisms of recent, but when have I said "we are shite"?
Quite the opposite actually, I have criticised people for accepting mediocrity when this squad is anything but. I, like Michael, repeatedly tell people what I think this squad is capable of and simply demand more. What we saw on Wednesday night - whilst not technical perfection by any means - showed full well what we are capable of.
I hold high ambitions for this squad of players and whilst, ultimately, David Moyes and his squad will decide what happens on a Saturday afternoon on the park I do firmly believe that attitude's and mentality can run club-wide.
What we have done, to my mind, is taken 3 points away from home against a direct rival, no more, no less.
City may have spent a shedload of money on mediocrity but the fact remains that their team isn't actually THAT special. Rather than celebrating like we have just beaten Barcelona i'd rather take a dose of reality, look at the players on the park, accept that we probably wouldn't swap more than 3 of them - hence we have the better side despite their spending - and move wisely on.
We may have been 'down' for a while but I won't ever forget who we are or lose my sense of pride and maybe aloofness in knowing I support one of the aristocrats of English football.
The famine may have been a long one but I know that some day soon we will dine at football's top table again, but we will only get there by showing the belief and single-mindedness that all the best teams have.
Over celebrating a win against City, to my mind, is smalltime and not what we are about.
We have a greater prize in our targets and those goals will only be achieved by showing a steely resolve and absolute focus on winning the remaining games we have.
I'm not being negative and I am not criticising Moyes or his players in any way.
I am simply preaching a mentality that I believe should be in-built into Evertonians.
Remember who we are and remember where we are going.
City away is a good win, we should save all the backslapping and "I told you so's" for a more worthy occasion though!
Onward's and upwards eh....we may not always agree on how to get there but we all want the same thing....SUCCESS!
3 points at Molyneux, end of story.
Quite the opposite actually, I have criticised people for accepting mediocrity when this squad is anything but. I, like Michael, repeatedly tell people what I think this squad is capable of and simply demand more. What we saw on Wednesday night - whilst not technical perfection by any means - showed full well what we are capable of.
I hold high ambitions for this squad of players and whilst, ultimately, David Moyes and his squad will decide what happens on a Saturday afternoon on the park I do firmly believe that attitude's and mentality can run club-wide.
What we have done, to my mind, is taken 3 points away from home against a direct rival, no more, no less.
City may have spent a shedload of money on mediocrity but the fact remains that their team isn't actually THAT special. Rather than celebrating like we have just beaten Barcelona i'd rather take a dose of reality, look at the players on the park, accept that we probably wouldn't swap more than 3 of them - hence we have the better side despite their spending - and move wisely on.
We may have been 'down' for a while but I won't ever forget who we are or lose my sense of pride and maybe aloofness in knowing I support one of the aristocrats of English football.
The famine may have been a long one but I know that some day soon we will dine at football's top table again, but we will only get there by showing the belief and single-mindedness that all the best teams have.
Over celebrating a win against City, to my mind, is smalltime and not what we are about.
We have a greater prize in our targets and those goals will only be achieved by showing a steely resolve and absolute focus on winning the remaining games we have.
I'm not being negative and I am not criticising Moyes or his players in any way.
I am simply preaching a mentality that I believe should be in-built into Evertonians.
Remember who we are and remember where we are going.
City away is a good win, we should save all the backslapping and "I told you so's" for a more worthy occasion though!
Onward's and upwards eh....we may not always agree on how to get there but we all want the same thing....SUCCESS!
3 points at Molyneux, end of story.
"We have a greater prize in our targets and those goals will only be achieved by showing a steely resolve and absolute focus on winning the remaining games we have."
As I said, Neil, steely resolve and focus is for the players and management. We are fans, for God's sake. It doesn't matter whether we focus on the next game or drink through the night - as long as the players and management don't do the same!
"I am simply preaching a mentality that I believe should be in-built into Evertonians."
I think the preaching is what has upset a few people. Nobody likes to be preached at, especially when the preacher is chastising them for getting a modicum of enjoyment out of the GAME of football.
As I said, Neil, steely resolve and focus is for the players and management. We are fans, for God's sake. It doesn't matter whether we focus on the next game or drink through the night - as long as the players and management don't do the same!
"I am simply preaching a mentality that I believe should be in-built into Evertonians."
I think the preaching is what has upset a few people. Nobody likes to be preached at, especially when the preacher is chastising them for getting a modicum of enjoyment out of the GAME of football.
This group of players know each other well, train and semi-live together, obviously respect and even like each other
The Catt was always (if you read `autobiographies') keen on analysing the opposition but, at times, feeling he had the right personnel, told his team to `go out and play'
I would like Moyes, at least for the remainder of the season, to pick up and paraphrase the Grant/Naylor maxim - "Let's get out there and twat `em"
The Catt was always (if you read `autobiographies') keen on analysing the opposition but, at times, feeling he had the right personnel, told his team to `go out and play'
I would like Moyes, at least for the remainder of the season, to pick up and paraphrase the Grant/Naylor maxim - "Let's get out there and twat `em"
Well we HAVE been inconsistent, too many times, for every United the has been a Birmingham.
We all know (or so we are told) that the table NEVER LIES.
We are mid-table coz we are inconsistent... poor starts not withstanding.
It is not too far in my mind to say that we only paid £1.5 mill for Arteta and Pienaar beacause prior to us coming in THEY were inconsistent, to the point of invisiblity. Some are slow / late developers, some just need to be in the right place to flourish.
You are only as good as you last game, even if the quote is word perfect, it should read...
You are only as good as your NEXT game, because...
NOTHING BUT THE BEST WILL DO.
We all know (or so we are told) that the table NEVER LIES.
We are mid-table coz we are inconsistent... poor starts not withstanding.
It is not too far in my mind to say that we only paid £1.5 mill for Arteta and Pienaar beacause prior to us coming in THEY were inconsistent, to the point of invisiblity. Some are slow / late developers, some just need to be in the right place to flourish.
You are only as good as you last game, even if the quote is word perfect, it should read...
You are only as good as your NEXT game, because...
NOTHING BUT THE BEST WILL DO.
Come on guys, it isn't the time for criticism now. Let's enjoy this newly found consistency and let's bask in it on a game by game basis with the eternal hope that it's a permanent shift. Criticise by all means when it's constructive but let's give credit where it is due and it's due now. As our criticism was once directed fairly at Moyes then so should our unstinting praise be given to him now. He is being given deserved praise world wide at the moment and he really deserves it. I'm not a Moyes apologis and I reserve the right to criticise him but not after the run of results that we've put together.
Despite the inhumane injury list we have had this season, after assessing our results and the points dropped, we would be comfortably sitting in 4th place now. Would the extra quality missing in the earlier parts of the season be the reason for the points dropped?
Take a look at our definite points dropped:
- Burnley (A) (lost 1 0) Saha missed pen - 1 point dropped;
- Stoke (H) ... 1-1: 2 points dropped;
- Wolves (H) ... 1-1: 2 points dropped;
- Bolton (A) ... 2-3: 2-nil down, did all the hard work and threw it away — 1 point dropped;
- Hull (A) ... 2-3: who cares about ifs and buts in this one, it's Hull — to me its 3 points dropped;
- Brum (H) ... 1-1: Saha's clearly onside goal ruled out and a Stephen Carr handball/penalty not given — 2 points dropped;
- Arsenal (A) ... 2-2: fair do's we never win here but we should of - 2-1 up and they equalise in injury time — 2 points dropped;
- Spurs (A) ... 1-2 Donovan misses from 1 yard — 2 points dropped;
- Brum (A) ... 2-2 2-nil up and we throw it away— 2 points dropped.
The squad is there now to compete with the top 4 - I just believe 2 or 3 additions are needed and we can break the monopoly. Sad thing is it could of been this season. Once again its a case of what could've been... would've been great to see us top moneybags City, Spurs and Liverpool with our injured list.
Neil/Michael, like it or not but you are being negative and, while making an apology to Lyndon, this is the site for you. We have just gone to a place where no one has won this season and got 3 points fairly easily. That puts a smile on my face and most other blues.
Michael, If you think that the injury crisis had no effect on the results then you are deluded. No one has ever said that the financial constraints restrict the style of play - what people have said is that we punch above our weight. Thanks to that tactically inept, dithering, overly cautious manager we have.
Wake up lad.
Grinning at some of the posts and in precis, we should enjoy the Man City result but not live on it come Saturday, that's another day and the boys need to stand up and be counted again, the win will have helped with their self belief but shouldn't be allowed to become complacency.
I also agree that the summer was a farce, it almost mirrored the previous summer with bullshit and poor start but what is done is done, if the club can halt another repeat of this then all the better. The injuries hurt the team at the start of the season but the telling ones in Arteta, Jags and Yakubu were known long before it started and weren't addressed.
Come this Saturday, I just want Everton focused on that game and nothing else, they can only influence what happens for those 90 mins then they move on to the next 90 mins until the season ends, if they keep the same commitment as we have seen at times, including against City, then they must be favourites to win.
Sorry Gareth, you're wrong on this
I've read many posts on here where we're told 'get real' etc. To paraphrase, we've been told we can't expect to play to the level of the Big3 because we haven't got the financial clout.
I've read many posts on here where we're told 'get real' etc. To paraphrase, we've been told we can't expect to play to the level of the Big3 because we haven't got the financial clout.
Some have responded that you don't need a billionaire backer to pass the ball 15 yards to a team-mate in space, run about a bit at throw-ins etc.
Yes, clubs with more money can buy ready-made, costlier, `better' players but Everton's displays such as Arsenal (A), Chelsea (H) etc give the lie to the belief that only money can build a successful, even skilful team.
No Phil, its just that when better players are available results get better.
By your logic we should be challenging for europe irrespective of which players we had out — going on from that, when the better players did come back in effect we should have been pushing for the title then?? Bollocks. Massive injury lists like we had have a massive effect on results. It's not rocket science.
As for Gavin's remark about not addressing Jagielka, Arteta and Yakubu being out — exactly how do you address that without any money?
Who's this article for?
The players? Yes that's fine I agree but what are you telling the fans for?
If it's aimed at the fans then what does it matter to the players whether the fans are chuffed or not?
The players? Yes that's fine I agree but what are you telling the fans for?
If it's aimed at the fans then what does it matter to the players whether the fans are chuffed or not?
"Brendan, yes I have made criticisms of recent, but when have I said "we are shite"?"
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Previously - “People who watch us home and away - having witnessed just 3 league away wins all season, none of which were remotely convincing - can see that we are still absolutely miles away.”
That's my definition of shite Neil
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Previously - “People who watch us home and away - having witnessed just 3 league away wins all season, none of which were remotely convincing - can see that we are still absolutely miles away.”
That's my definition of shite Neil
No Brendan, it is an isolated comment that is FACT. If you win 3 games away from home all season - 4 now - it is obvious that things are going wrong, and that you are indeed miles away.
That is a far cry from saying the players are "shite".
If you put it into context with what I say on a regular basis it was more a criticism of Moyes than the players. The list of games someone noted above....they are the ones that have left us in this situation now where we are scrambling to make it when in reality we should have been more comfortable.
How is this turning into a Moyes debate anyway?
My point was this; We are a big, big club and we have a fantastic squad.
I fully expect us to be winning big games away from home now, we are good enough to do that and if we are to achieve our goals we will have to do that on a regular basis.
I think attitudes transmit throughout the club and over-celebrating the City win is smalltime and will give the players and the manager the impression that they are OK as long as they win a few big games like that.
I just think we need to get some perspective and remember who we are and what our goals are and shrug it off personally. The end of the season, when and if we have achieved our aims, will be the time for mass celebration, not now. Now we have a job to do.
Just how I see it anyway, I want us to grow as a club and the fans are a big part of that. "Act as if" and all that.
Winning big games should be a norm for Evertonians, not a cue for wild celebration.
That is a far cry from saying the players are "shite".
If you put it into context with what I say on a regular basis it was more a criticism of Moyes than the players. The list of games someone noted above....they are the ones that have left us in this situation now where we are scrambling to make it when in reality we should have been more comfortable.
How is this turning into a Moyes debate anyway?
My point was this; We are a big, big club and we have a fantastic squad.
I fully expect us to be winning big games away from home now, we are good enough to do that and if we are to achieve our goals we will have to do that on a regular basis.
I think attitudes transmit throughout the club and over-celebrating the City win is smalltime and will give the players and the manager the impression that they are OK as long as they win a few big games like that.
I just think we need to get some perspective and remember who we are and what our goals are and shrug it off personally. The end of the season, when and if we have achieved our aims, will be the time for mass celebration, not now. Now we have a job to do.
Just how I see it anyway, I want us to grow as a club and the fans are a big part of that. "Act as if" and all that.
Winning big games should be a norm for Evertonians, not a cue for wild celebration.
Gareth, everyone in the country knew Lescott was wanted by City at the FA Cup Final, if the club stopped fucking about claiming we had targets and cash then surprise surprise we didn't until he was sold as late as possible we would have address at least two of the three, Heitinga would have been a star in Europe but last minute.com put paid to that.
It doesn't take a weatherman to tell me it's raining outside, we knew we were potless and should have put a price on Lescott as early as possible, got the filthy oil cash and spent it on time to make a difference.
We've dropped too many points against average teams this season and Moyes should be drilling into the players that Wolves is a massive game and we must win. If we come out of this game without a win, all the effort against teams like Man United, Chelsea and more recently, Man City will have gone to waste. Let's go their and attack, none of this negativity, dropping off and giving teams too much respect.
If we were to win and Chelsea do us a favour and beat Villa, we go above Villa, albeit they have a game in hand but this could be a huge psychological blow to their players.
If we were to win and Chelsea do us a favour and beat Villa, we go above Villa, albeit they have a game in hand but this could be a huge psychological blow to their players.
The last time I recalled 2 defeats in our last 18 league games, plus 8 wins out of our last 11 is pretty consistent to me, what do some of you expect?
At odds here, Gareth ... I'm simply responding to your remark "No one has ever said that the financial constraints restrict the style of play" — I think posters have stated that on here, that's all
Phil, financial constraints do restrict the style of play, as for the "big money" signings you usually get a consistent high level of performance, when you but the less expensive players it is usually because they are a) not as good as the more expensive players and b) not able to consitently perform at the height of their abilities.
For example, Torres will have a stinker of a game but when faced with a goal chance will prabably bury it, yet you have lesser player who will have a stinker of a game and when presented with a similar chance will probably fluff it.
Pienaar, who a lot of people believe is our best player, has had some stinkers this season. that's why we got him on the cheap, if he would have been an Essien type of signing, in regards to cost, I guarrantee he would have fewer bad games.
Better players cost more money and performer better more consistently, it a fair theory and therefore money does play a part, unless you are lucky and get players on the cheap, something Moyes has done well in the past.
As I have said in previous posts, it's no suprise that Citteh are now pushing for the Champions League spot after having fist fulls of money thrown at them, that is proof alone that money DOES play a part in a successful team in the Premier League.
For example, Torres will have a stinker of a game but when faced with a goal chance will prabably bury it, yet you have lesser player who will have a stinker of a game and when presented with a similar chance will probably fluff it.
Pienaar, who a lot of people believe is our best player, has had some stinkers this season. that's why we got him on the cheap, if he would have been an Essien type of signing, in regards to cost, I guarrantee he would have fewer bad games.
Better players cost more money and performer better more consistently, it a fair theory and therefore money does play a part, unless you are lucky and get players on the cheap, something Moyes has done well in the past.
As I have said in previous posts, it's no suprise that Citteh are now pushing for the Champions League spot after having fist fulls of money thrown at them, that is proof alone that money DOES play a part in a successful team in the Premier League.
I know it seems like another era now but lack of a fortune didn't stop Clough or Kendall Mk1.
Fair do's Phil.
Gavin, I don't think we would have got as much as we did had we not played hard ball - I agree though we should have stuck a price on him much earlier and we wouldn't have been farting around at the end of the window like we did with Rooney.
Gavin, I don't think we would have got as much as we did had we not played hard ball - I agree though we should have stuck a price on him much earlier and we wouldn't have been farting around at the end of the window like we did with Rooney.
That's because it wasn't the Premier League with it's daft money and it was a more level playing field where the top bristish players were playing against each other and foreigners were few and far between.
At the start of a season in teh past you couldn't say that x, y & z will deffinitely be chasing the league, it would more likely be about 6/7 teams that could be in with a shout.
Unfortunately all that stopped when Sky killed competative football with its dirty money
At the start of a season in teh past you couldn't say that x, y & z will deffinitely be chasing the league, it would more likely be about 6/7 teams that could be in with a shout.
Unfortunately all that stopped when Sky killed competative football with its dirty money
Tomorrow Villa are at Chelsea. They lose, we win we catch them up. Simple as that.
Hard to see what exactly this article is about. if we beat Wolves tomorrow, what then? are we allowed to be upbeat, even happy? or is there only one point in time when feel-good is allowed and that's at 10 to 5 on the last Sunday of the season?
What a miserable fucking phiosophy. We have failed this season several times. We all know what they are and when they were. We are NOT failing right now. We are ascending, playing intelligent and attractive football and beating teams above us.
The manager and the players will already be focused on Wolves. We are fans. Our "focus" is irrelevant. Evertonians are feeling good and, I'm sorry to have to tell you this, it's allowed. Just as feeling down is allowed as many of us were earlier in the season.
So you and Mr Kenrick "focus" on Wolves. Most of us will remain upbeat after a great performance and huge plaudits in al the press (check out The Times today, fantastic). Then, at 3pm on Saturday, I shall be my usual bag of nerves & uncertainty.
We're fans, not strategic football consultants.
What a miserable fucking phiosophy. We have failed this season several times. We all know what they are and when they were. We are NOT failing right now. We are ascending, playing intelligent and attractive football and beating teams above us.
The manager and the players will already be focused on Wolves. We are fans. Our "focus" is irrelevant. Evertonians are feeling good and, I'm sorry to have to tell you this, it's allowed. Just as feeling down is allowed as many of us were earlier in the season.
So you and Mr Kenrick "focus" on Wolves. Most of us will remain upbeat after a great performance and huge plaudits in al the press (check out The Times today, fantastic). Then, at 3pm on Saturday, I shall be my usual bag of nerves & uncertainty.
We're fans, not strategic football consultants.
One further thing for Neil.
On what basis is Everton a "big, big club"? Fan base? turnover? 1 FA cup & a 4th place in last 22 years? I'm curious. What's the basis for your extraordinary expectations?
Seems to me that based on all the normal criteria we should be finishing between 8th - 11th. I'm very interested to hear why you EXPECT to be challenging for the league.
On what basis is Everton a "big, big club"? Fan base? turnover? 1 FA cup & a 4th place in last 22 years? I'm curious. What's the basis for your extraordinary expectations?
Seems to me that based on all the normal criteria we should be finishing between 8th - 11th. I'm very interested to hear why you EXPECT to be challenging for the league.
Alan, it's clear why we are a big, big club, as we have a saying on our badge that says so and everything now is judged by a 100+ year old latin phrase.
The mocking tone of your questioning and your patronising comments are what I expect from Dorset kopites rather than Evertonians. Sad
Even sadder calling fellow Evertonians Kopites and I thought it was also against Toffeeweb etiquette.
Brendan, it seems that enjoying a victory is also against the etiquette of some posters too. We should all be furrowed browed now trying to work out what formation McCarthy will be playing on Saturday and how we are going to break their defence...etc
No problem Tony J I have it sussed
We go at them from the off
Neil Steele gives the pre-match talk to the players
Moyes makes three substitutions after five minutes if we are not at least two goals up by then
We leave Jagielka back on his own and play five forwards – after all it’s only fucking Wolves
We bring Coleman back from Blackpool to terrorise them down the right
Anyone who back passes to the keeper or plays a safety first clearance gets hauled off and replaced by one of our Brazilian internationals
When we win there is a ripple of polite applause around the ground to show that we are pleased but ain’t going to get too carried away
We go at them from the off
Neil Steele gives the pre-match talk to the players
Moyes makes three substitutions after five minutes if we are not at least two goals up by then
We leave Jagielka back on his own and play five forwards – after all it’s only fucking Wolves
We bring Coleman back from Blackpool to terrorise them down the right
Anyone who back passes to the keeper or plays a safety first clearance gets hauled off and replaced by one of our Brazilian internationals
When we win there is a ripple of polite applause around the ground to show that we are pleased but ain’t going to get too carried away
That's the spirit Brendan, now you're talking like a "real Evertonian" Nil Satis and all of that!
I think you boys should get a room
No question that you are Evertonians but, if you are having to ask why Everton are a big club and belittling our motto (in place slightly earlier than 1910) , then I believe you are among those Evertonians who don't `get it'
No question that you are Evertonians but, if you are having to ask why Everton are a big club and belittling our motto (in place slightly earlier than 1910) , then I believe you are among those Evertonians who don't `get it'
I don't get it? get what Phil? I don't get it because I refuse to rant and rave about results where we have played absolutely tosh? I rage in my own way but I don't find the need to swear every other word and abuse our players/staff like others do.
I was not actually belittling our motto, I was belittling the posters who constantly refer to it as a means to have a go at their particular target that week, it seems that you "don't get it" It being irony/sarcasm.
In our own minds, yes we are a big club, massive even but on paper and in terms of silverware we haven't been a "big" club since our glory days in the 80's, excluding one bright moment in the 90's.
Thanks for calling me a boy, it's been a while seeing as I am closer to 40 now than I am to 35
I was not actually belittling our motto, I was belittling the posters who constantly refer to it as a means to have a go at their particular target that week, it seems that you "don't get it" It being irony/sarcasm.
In our own minds, yes we are a big club, massive even but on paper and in terms of silverware we haven't been a "big" club since our glory days in the 80's, excluding one bright moment in the 90's.
Thanks for calling me a boy, it's been a while seeing as I am closer to 40 now than I am to 35
No problem, Tony...and no offence meant
I think we're just at cross-purposes. Of course the dreadful, long-term injuries we had to our star performers would knacker any team. The fact we couldn't afford to replace the injured with similar standard players lends weight to your money-is-all argument
I was made up with the performance on Wed - kicked and headed every ball as I'm sure you did
I think the likes of Neil and I are wanting performances like that (and others this season), to be the norm rather than reason for an open-top bus tour of the City
We differ from `realists' in our non-acceptance of lack of a fortune as an excuse for unacceptable performances
Personally I think Moyes and our team are on the verge of something if we can keep this squad together, at least
I live with the hope, even expectation, that we will again be top of the heap - with or without a multi-billionaire
Being a Blue, I don't expect success as a right but believe we should enjoy the roller-coaster of emotions (if enjoy's the right word) whilst always striving to live up to our motto, else why bother
Everton will always be a big club to me and thousands of others
I think we're just at cross-purposes. Of course the dreadful, long-term injuries we had to our star performers would knacker any team. The fact we couldn't afford to replace the injured with similar standard players lends weight to your money-is-all argument
I was made up with the performance on Wed - kicked and headed every ball as I'm sure you did
I think the likes of Neil and I are wanting performances like that (and others this season), to be the norm rather than reason for an open-top bus tour of the City
We differ from `realists' in our non-acceptance of lack of a fortune as an excuse for unacceptable performances
Personally I think Moyes and our team are on the verge of something if we can keep this squad together, at least
I live with the hope, even expectation, that we will again be top of the heap - with or without a multi-billionaire
Being a Blue, I don't expect success as a right but believe we should enjoy the roller-coaster of emotions (if enjoy's the right word) whilst always striving to live up to our motto, else why bother
Everton will always be a big club to me and thousands of others
Neil - if I'm honest I loved your post, has got me well up for tomorrow!
However - the cause for the elation over Wednesday's result is we beat a local, direct rival on their own patch - the only team to do that since April 2009 - a team who have probably outlayed more on players in one season than DM has in his entire tenure at Goodison Park whilst also taking one of our best players off us in a pretty acrimonious close season transfer. On top of that the win was a must win in Euro qualification terms as was a six pointer and we not only won it but won it in style with one of our goals of the season. What is there not to celebrate in all that?
But - like I said - I loved your post, reminded me of James Cordens speech to the England team. Brilliant.
COYB!
However - the cause for the elation over Wednesday's result is we beat a local, direct rival on their own patch - the only team to do that since April 2009 - a team who have probably outlayed more on players in one season than DM has in his entire tenure at Goodison Park whilst also taking one of our best players off us in a pretty acrimonious close season transfer. On top of that the win was a must win in Euro qualification terms as was a six pointer and we not only won it but won it in style with one of our goals of the season. What is there not to celebrate in all that?
But - like I said - I loved your post, reminded me of James Cordens speech to the England team. Brilliant.
COYB!
Mike you've got it, let's get Smithy to do the pre-match talk and stand on the touchline with DM, genius and definitely worth a few more bums on seats.
Close run thing but I still think Smithy's speech was funier
So - while we're at it - predictions for tomorrow anyone?
I think it'll be pretty tough to be honest, the lads could be a bit knackered from Wednesday and in my heart of hearts I dont think were going to come away with all 3 points.
However - I'll go for 2-1 to the Blues, goalscorers Cahill and Saha, who must be due one.
I think it'll be pretty tough to be honest, the lads could be a bit knackered from Wednesday and in my heart of hearts I dont think were going to come away with all 3 points.
However - I'll go for 2-1 to the Blues, goalscorers Cahill and Saha, who must be due one.
Just to clarlfy my earlier comment, which seems to have been mis-construed by David Hallwood at least, I agree that the injury crisis was the root and overwhelming cause of our bad form.
My only other point was that it wasn't 100% responsible; part of it was the late arrival of the new players and part of it was attitude and confidence — for instance, the team that drew 1-1 with Wolves and Stoke wasn't that much different than it is now.
Neil, I concur with Alan's views, i wrote an article about it a while ago. "Big club"-define.
We are proud of our history, for what it is, reality as discussed above is that with Sky we are not in the frame. We have had fleeting success, over the past 4 years, and are improving. I agree with an earlier contributor that it is no longer the typical Sky4 and that for some reason, (probably debts) that those 4 have experienced changing fortunes.
We are now established as challenging the norm (the best of the rest) and next season i hope and even expect that we will be even better-lets assume no start as bad as this year.
So with the progress in mind, Neil- how about acknowledging the progress made and maybe consider appreciating the team and maybe even the Manager. Of course if you have another agenda, stand up.
We are proud of our history, for what it is, reality as discussed above is that with Sky we are not in the frame. We have had fleeting success, over the past 4 years, and are improving. I agree with an earlier contributor that it is no longer the typical Sky4 and that for some reason, (probably debts) that those 4 have experienced changing fortunes.
We are now established as challenging the norm (the best of the rest) and next season i hope and even expect that we will be even better-lets assume no start as bad as this year.
So with the progress in mind, Neil- how about acknowledging the progress made and maybe consider appreciating the team and maybe even the Manager. Of course if you have another agenda, stand up.
Another agenda?? People do come out with some strange things at times. We are all just fans are we not, what possible 'agenda' could I have?
I just want us to be the best we can be and looking at the players we have now, that is a good way better than we have been for the majority of this season.
Simple as that really. Why would anyone want to do what you say and dwell on the past and celebrate the strides we have made thus far? They are worth nothing if we don't continue to progress, wouldn't you agree?
We need to forget what we did yesterday and concentrate on tomorrow.
I firmly believe that one of the main things still holding this club back is an inferiority complex. We have bottled it too often in big games and the fans don't seem to have any real belief.
Plenty of people talk a good game when it comes to backing the manager yet strangely they are all too willing to accept failure.
That's just not how I am, I won't accept failure where I see we can do better.
I believe we can now compete seriously for the top 4 slots and that will be reflected in my attitude. When we throw points away as we did at Birmingham I will go off the hook and when I see people acting smalltime and over-celebrating one-off wins I will say what I see.
We can be the real deal now, but only if we have belief in ourselves. Like I said...I firmly believe that attitude and mentality is a club-wide thing. It's all very well saying ' ah but we are just fans', you honestly think the reactions and opinions of the fans don't influence the manager and what happens on the park? Of course they do.
Just think back to the Spurs watershed that gave Moyes a wake up call.
If the players and manager see a fanbase content with mediocrity and thrilled with one off wins, even if it is subconscious...they will ease off the gas.
It is our job to set the bar and to make sure that the players and management know what we expect and to ensure that standards don't drop.
Then maybe, just maybe...we can celebrate something worth celebrating; some actual, tangible success.
I just want us to be the best we can be and looking at the players we have now, that is a good way better than we have been for the majority of this season.
Simple as that really. Why would anyone want to do what you say and dwell on the past and celebrate the strides we have made thus far? They are worth nothing if we don't continue to progress, wouldn't you agree?
We need to forget what we did yesterday and concentrate on tomorrow.
I firmly believe that one of the main things still holding this club back is an inferiority complex. We have bottled it too often in big games and the fans don't seem to have any real belief.
Plenty of people talk a good game when it comes to backing the manager yet strangely they are all too willing to accept failure.
That's just not how I am, I won't accept failure where I see we can do better.
I believe we can now compete seriously for the top 4 slots and that will be reflected in my attitude. When we throw points away as we did at Birmingham I will go off the hook and when I see people acting smalltime and over-celebrating one-off wins I will say what I see.
We can be the real deal now, but only if we have belief in ourselves. Like I said...I firmly believe that attitude and mentality is a club-wide thing. It's all very well saying ' ah but we are just fans', you honestly think the reactions and opinions of the fans don't influence the manager and what happens on the park? Of course they do.
Just think back to the Spurs watershed that gave Moyes a wake up call.
If the players and manager see a fanbase content with mediocrity and thrilled with one off wins, even if it is subconscious...they will ease off the gas.
It is our job to set the bar and to make sure that the players and management know what we expect and to ensure that standards don't drop.
Then maybe, just maybe...we can celebrate something worth celebrating; some actual, tangible success.
A couple of points,
During the early part of the season, if anyone referred to how well we had done at the end of last season they were told that you couldn't use what had happened in the past to judge how well the team was doing in the now. Strangely the people who came up with that rule are now using the start of this season to argue that we are not doing as well as we should be now.
Point 2 refers to us being a big club, am I not correct in remembering how angry a portion of Evertonians were when Newcastle fans claimed that they were a big club when they hadn't won anything in years (this was before they got relegated naturally), and I also remember criticism being laid at the door of Spurs fans for claiming that they are a big club.
Everton have been a big club in the past, and I have no doubt that we will be again. But based on finances we are not a big club at the moment. Based on results we are not a big club at the moment, and based on attendances we are not a big club at the moment.
What we are is a sleeping giant, and over the last few months our eyelids have just started to flutter, and at Eastlands I'm sure I saw a finger twitch.
During the early part of the season, if anyone referred to how well we had done at the end of last season they were told that you couldn't use what had happened in the past to judge how well the team was doing in the now. Strangely the people who came up with that rule are now using the start of this season to argue that we are not doing as well as we should be now.
Point 2 refers to us being a big club, am I not correct in remembering how angry a portion of Evertonians were when Newcastle fans claimed that they were a big club when they hadn't won anything in years (this was before they got relegated naturally), and I also remember criticism being laid at the door of Spurs fans for claiming that they are a big club.
Everton have been a big club in the past, and I have no doubt that we will be again. But based on finances we are not a big club at the moment. Based on results we are not a big club at the moment, and based on attendances we are not a big club at the moment.
What we are is a sleeping giant, and over the last few months our eyelids have just started to flutter, and at Eastlands I'm sure I saw a finger twitch.
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1 Posted 25/03/2010 at 19:26:33
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I do have to disagree with you, however, about celebrating a great win... and that was a great win, capped by a truly excellent, scintillating winning goal. Of course, such flowing football is not possible on our limited resources, lack of massive transfer fees, low players' wages, etc, etc...
Nonetheless, I feel we can bask in the glory of that win at least through Saturday lunchtime...