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Our history is great but...

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Let me start off by recognizing that I am going to get plenty of stick for this... but I am fed up of us Evertonians living in the past. Perhaps it is because of the upcoming 25th anniversary of a truly great side, that we are hearing so much about past events.

Please don't misunderstand. I started following Everton in 1971 and love talking about the Holy Trinity, Bob Latchford, Martin Dobson (who I went to school with), Duncan McKenzie etc in subsequent years... but let's all realize that those days are over and concentrate on the potential we have today.

One cup win and a handful of "if only's" are not good enough for the past 20 odd years. .
Ajay Timothy, New York     Posted 30/03/2010 at 18:28:57

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Ste Traverse
1   Posted 31/03/2010 at 05:37:33

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Ajay, your bang on IMHO. Let's face it, under Bullshit Billy we're very unlikely to have the glorydays of the 80s again so what shall we do? Celebrate that glory all over again!

It doesn't help having the most sentimental Evertonian on the planet as chairman.

Yes, the last 20 years have not been anywhere near good enough for a club of our stature.
Dave Wilson
2   Posted 31/03/2010 at 05:30:10

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Is right, Ajay. Our past has at times been glorious and we should always acknowledge it... but without the aid of videos / DVDs I have trouble remembering how it felt to know we are the best. The desire to see Everton top of the tree again grows stronger with each passing trophy-less season.

Our history gives me immense pride, but it means little or nothing to the younger fans who weren't there.

Would I trade our entire history to see us champions in the here and now? ... I`d have to think long and hard about that one.
Rory Slingo
3   Posted 31/03/2010 at 05:33:52

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When the current team actually lives up to that potential and accomplishes something, I'm sure we'll talk about it non-stop, Ajay.

For now, some fans seem to think that the mathematical certainty of avoiding relegation is cause for joy. Some sort of triumph. I guess we still need that constant beating over the head about who Everton used to be and what is considered "good enough".
Gavin Ramejkis
4   Posted 31/03/2010 at 08:36:23

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I think it also aligns with the average age of our season ticket holders being 40+ too, younger supporters will have never known annual trips to Wembley down the years and even the 80s successes are just stories for many, but if the semi and final showed last year our fans are unequalled in their ability to be there when needed, I just wish the younger fans could see us lift a trophy, see a bus top tour through the city, and celebrate real success.
Trevor Lynes
5   Posted 31/03/2010 at 08:40:42

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Yes I fully agree... I just feel a bit sorry for the fantastic fans who have never seen a REALLY good EFC team. Potentially the current squad could become great again.

Unfortunately in our previous history we have never kept decent squads intact so have tended to be a bit of a yo-yo team.Thats why we tended to win a title or cup then drop away in following seasons.

Ed Staunton
6   Posted 31/03/2010 at 08:56:05

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I really don’t know what point your trying to make. Latchford, Dobson & McKenzie were fine players but they didn’t win anything either.

Of course winning nothing for 20 years isn’t good, goes without saying, so why say it! You say "Don’t live in the past" but supporting a team is all about reliving the past, dissecting the present & imagining what the future might hold.

If we didn’t revisit the past we would have very little to talk about, the last match is in the past after all.

Martin Mason
7   Posted 31/03/2010 at 09:06:34

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History is very important for us Evertonians because for a while we were the team that set the standards. As long as we don't use past success to denigrate the present or dictate how we must do in the future then it's cool.

Don't forget that Everton's lack of success isn't 25 years worth — add the 15 years from 1970 to 1985 when we were good at times but generally woeful.

Brian Noble
8   Posted 31/03/2010 at 09:48:40

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Nobody`s prouder of our heritage than me but I don`t get all starry-eyed everytime the Holy Trinity are mentioned.

The trouble with Kenwright and his ilk is that to them history is everything and it makes up for our lack of modern day success. I`ve sort of given up hope of future glory and have begun to believe that our future bragging rights are behind us!

Phil Martin
9   Posted 31/03/2010 at 09:54:14

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I actually find some of the comments on this site bemusing and totally sum up the recent mediocrity culture we have come to accept as fans.

I, like many others, have said we need new ownership. Yet some will say "look at Portsmouth" "look at the RS". "We're better off with Bill".

Well (Pompey aside, who are an exception) we are now also rans. In the mid 90s we at least had a period of challenging for top players. Bilic was the most coveted centre-half in the Premier League and he chose us over MUFC. Forget the fact it never really worked out — bottom line, he chose us. Now, we don't compete with the top 7 or 8.

I love this club so much that it pains me to see even the likes of Spurs outspend us and continue to win cups — even when their team isn't that good.

But some of the attitudes here (on this site), that we're happy for us to stagnate, than risk any kind of push for glory, is totally bemusing. No-one suggests doing a Leeds. But please we surely expect more, don't we?

"Dragging our heels" should be our club motto. Given our ambition, we're lucky to be where we are now. But it wouldn't surprise me if we lose one of our better players every year. Pienaar next?

Moyes has fairly thankless task of grabbing the best deal possible and patching up the squad with whatever cash Billy allows. But on a good year we might hit the dizzy heights of 5th again.

John Sreet
10   Posted 31/03/2010 at 10:13:26

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Okay, so let me imagine we have no history, so forgetting the past and thinking of how we're doing as we look over only the last 20 years, then I feel great about my club. For most of the first half of those 20 years we just managed to avoid relegation, two last-day escapes...

However, over the last ten years, we have improved significantly, many top six finishes, even made the Champions League positions once, and we've played in Europe consistently for the past few seasons. All the pundits seem to think we're a club on the up even without the gazillions others have.... so yeah I think we're doing great!!

Mike Oates
11   Posted 31/03/2010 at 10:34:14

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No problem with having a history, but I'd like to remember the 66, 71, 85 years and players as they played then and not continually reading about the half a dozen re-unions they have every year were the outcome seems to be to get as drunk as possible — all paid for by the accompanying fans.
Amen.
John Nelson
12   Posted 31/03/2010 at 10:28:59

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Ok then so being in tandum with the author's comments, if we forget about the celebrating the most successful year in our great club's proud and fantastic history at a 25-year landmark, we might as well forget about every other fucking honour and record we have set, mightn't we?

What a stupid, negative, pessimistic thread this is, with an unnecessary dig at BK in the process. I am 23 and unfortunately obviously never seen us in our hey day, and in general grew up with us being shite, but I am just as proud as anyone when it comes to bringing up our great and proud history, and for one think that it will come back for us again in the not so distant future.

We aren't living in the past, we are just rightfully celebrating an excellent team.

COYB
Dave Roberts
13   Posted 31/03/2010 at 10:50:51

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A bit of a silly post if you ask me!

It's not a question of one or the other....it's quite possible to have fond and vivid memories of the past while bemoaning the paucity of trophies since 1987.

I can talk for hours to younger Blues about past glories and even individual games, players and goals from those eras that they have never seen but I can still push and wish for success now and in the future too.

There's nothing like watching the Everton captain parade a trophy around the touchline or hold it aloft in the director's box. I'm not going to stop remembering those occasions or talking about them just because it hasn't happened for too many years and because too many Blues have never seen it.

Should have been born earlier!
Mike Allison
14   Posted 31/03/2010 at 11:45:30

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The only real problem here is the idea that some of the older fans have that nothing the current team or manager do is good enough short of winning the league.

They usually then go on to criticise their fellow Evertonians for 'accepting mediocrity', or helping 'hold the club back' with their attitude.

Nobody peaks all the time, we've done pretty well the last few years, and should be allowed to enjoy that without the constant sniping and whingeing of those who think we have a divine right to win everything every year.

I'm not quite sure what the point of the OP was, but the issue that sticks out to me is that yes, we should be proud of our history, but it shouldn't be a stick with which to beat our current set up.
Adam Bennett
15   Posted 31/03/2010 at 12:35:35

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Having a rich history and tradition is what makes this club great. It is something the current squad can look at and aspire to. It is something that can drive the club forward.

The current players will look at our past and think ‘I want some of that’. When they see the 1985 team having a celebration dinner, and see the love and respect those players have from the fans, they will think ‘I want some of that’. When they see pictures of the likes of Dixie Dean, Alan Ball, Neville Southall etc dotted around they will think ‘I want to be as good as them and achieve what they achieved’.

Celebrating and talking about our history is an opportunity to let the current squad, manager, board and fans know what this club has done, and needs to do in the future. It is an opportunity to drive forward thinking, "let's get to that level again".
Steve Guy
16   Posted 31/03/2010 at 13:24:17

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"And if yer know yer History, it's enuff to make yer heart go........"

To paraphrase an old axiom, you can't know where you are going until you understand where you are and where you've been.

We are lucky as Evertonians to have a historical baseline of stellar players reaching back to Dixie Dean and a record of trophies stretching back over 100 years. Few teams can say that; only Arsenal I think. "History" for Man Utd. only started with the Busby Babes, try telling a Man Utd fan to forget them. For that crowd across the Park it only started 50 years ago when Shankly turned up.

It is precisely because we have this rich history that we expect and demand more and that should apply to young and old alike; because we know our history we all know what and who we are and expect no less than the club motto because we know it is possible.

Most clubs' supporters would walk over hot coals to have the heritage and tradition of Everton, so we should celebrate it and never forget it.
Jay Harris
17   Posted 31/03/2010 at 14:06:41

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Ajay
dont forget everything goes in cycles and our cycle is on the up.

Having watched EFC for over 50 years I have had the privelege of watching 3 (and a bit if you include 1995) cycles of success which averages out at between 15 and 20 years.

United,Chelsea,Man City and Liverpool have all spent spells in the 2nd Division (I refuse to call it the Championship because that it certainly isnt) while we have been everpresent in the top flight during my lifetime.

Despite the boards inadequacies our star is rising and I really believe we will win something very soon.

In the meantime enjoy the rollercoaster that is following Everton!!
Dave Smith
18   Posted 31/03/2010 at 19:14:41

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"We are lucky as Evertonians to have a historical baseline of stellar players reaching back to Dixie Dean and a record of trophies stretching back over 100 years. Few teams can say that; only Arsenal I think."

Purely in the interests of accuracy — add Aston Villa to that as well.

I think our history is what makes us, and therefore can never be ignored.

Mike Alinson (#14) makes an excellent point. I think most supporters fail to realise how different the game is nowadays. Football is constantly evolving, whether for better or worse remains to be seen.
Andy Crooks
19   Posted 31/03/2010 at 23:40:00

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Phil Martin, don't you realize that such negativity is unwelcome? Do you not appreciate that we have been saved from relegation year after year? Forget Harry Catterick, what we have now is much better.

Ajay, we live in the past because that is Everton. Our memories sustain our old age and what I've seen at Goodison Park since 1966 will help sustain mine. How many memories is David Moyes creating?

Dennis Stevens
20   Posted 01/04/2010 at 00:10:13

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Steve, a hundred years ago Arsenal were pretty well bankrupt & their history of trophy success only started in 1930, thanks to the recruitment of Huddersfield Town's manager Herbert Chapman.
Iain Love
21   Posted 01/04/2010 at 00:36:49

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Not sure what you're trying to say, Ajay? You want us to forget about history and concentrate on today? If so, why bring it up???

There are teams such as Manure and Liverpool who have a better history than us, ie winning things, not really arsed because I can't do anything about it, and I don't support Everton because of the past, I support them because they're local to me and I chose them over Liverpool [won more than us] because I had a choice and picked Everton... simples.

Yes, I went through a spell [haven't we all] where I didn't want to watch them because we were shite to watch, then we were good to watch, then shite, now good again. I ain't changing. Your family, your past and your football team can't change, "We'll support you evermore" the song goes — and it's right.

Martin Mason
22   Posted 01/04/2010 at 03:55:48

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Don't forget though that we won trophies in the past when we were the billionaire club and arguably bought our success.

Football is different now and winning trophies outside of the top three is difficult. We have no right to expect success whatever our motto is and it is irrational to criticise the club, manger and players if we don't win trophies. Coming fourth or fifth is our Everest, displacing Liverpool; and or Arsenal for 4th or 3rd would be a massive achievement even without trophies.
Matthew Mackey
23   Posted 01/04/2010 at 09:53:17

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Ajay, the game, the way it is run and what is defined as "success" have changed beyond all recognition since the conception of the PL.

These days, success in top class football is not just judged by how full the trophy cabinet is but also by whether the clubs finances are in the red or the black, whether you stay in the PL or are relegated out of it, whether you qualify for next season's European competitions, or even by how long you retain a manager who consistently keeps you well away from the relegation zone. With this in mind, I'd say that Everton Football Club and David Moyes pretty much tick all the boxes.

If you compare our standing over the last say 10 years to Villa, Tottenham, Man City, Newcastle, Leeds, and all those other so-called 'big' clubs, then I'd say we've done pretty well — especially when you consider our financial spend is miniscule compared to many of these other clubs.

I agree, it would be nice to win some silverware... but I'm certainly not going to throw myself off the nearest bridge because we haven't.

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