The Mail Bag
Depressed by Barcelona
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I just watched the game tonight and, though I enjoyed it immensely, couldn't help feeling just a bit demoralized. Arsenal are as good as football goes in the Premier League and yet they were, despite the final result, utterly outplayed.
We went to the Emirates and should have won; so how would we have done tonight? Frankly,it doesn't bear thinking about. We dream about the Champions League next year but, really, are we not a million miles from what is required?
I've always felt that team spirit, organization, discipline and some flair can go a long way. Until tonight, I thought that money, or lack of it, could be overcome. Not any more...
I have always thought that we should try to play good football. Wigan play good football and get stuffed. Arsenal play great football and should have been stuffed. So what should we do?
Andy Crooks, Posted 31/03/2010 at 23:24:31
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There is a lot of dick sucking about Barcelona and undoubtedly they are fantastic to watch and a really really good side; however, the point you are making is that Arsenal play good football and got stuffed. Well, no they drew, but should have got beat. By... a team that plays great football.
As a different point, I actually thought whilst watching it that Everton would put up a better fight at Goodison than Arsenal did at the Emirates. The 2 goals from "Barca" were gifts from Arsenal.
Puyol
Pique
Busquets
Xavi
Pedro (i think)
Messi
All came through the youth team. To play like Barca you need far more than just money.
This is what Barcelona do and, to a lesser extent, what Arsenal do. The point I always make in relation to this is: could you ever see Tony Hibbert coming through the Arsenal or Barca youth ranks? Of course not - as good a defender as he is, he doesn't have the raw footballing ability that these setups demand. (And no, I'm not having a go at Tony here.)
It'll take at least 10 years, probably longer, but it's what we should be doing. If, for example, Moyes had started implementing this on his arrival, we'd be a fair chunk of the way there. On the other hand, really this kind of thing shouldn't come down to Moyes — it is what a Director of Football ultimately deals with.
The other thing that I think we should all note with Barca is what they do when they don't have the ball. Watch their pressing, their hunger and their desire for the ball (Beglin was bleating on about it last night as if he'd never noticed it before). Barca press oppositions higher up the pitch and with more energy that just about any other team I've seen. This is what makes them so hard to play against, particularly compared to Arsenal, say.
We already press the ball well, but not as well as Barca. And, of course, there is a small difference when Barca get the ball back compared to when we get it back!
And then you get that moron Wenger who had the front to say Barcelona wouldn't win our league. Hold on, how long since his team won a trophy or did anything of note? There is a reason why Arsenal have been hammered three times on the trot by both Chelsea and United and that is because they are far inferior to what they believe themselves to be.
They won a penalty from that little cheating shit Fabregas — how many times has he done it now?
As we showed, you don't have to be one of the top sides to outplay Arsenal anymore.
Finally, since we are on the subject of Barcelona, Gareth Humphreys mentioned that they barely got a kick against Chelsea but if I am not mistaken did they not spend the entire 2 legs defending? Our great Sky 4 teams who contradict themselves when it suits them. I hope Barca reedeem themselves in the 2nd leg. And more importantly I hope Benfica have another great night against a Scouse side. Ooops, sorry, silly mistake... I forgot to say Norweigan.
Everton have an excellent youth developement system set up, but it appears that we are always open to predatory attacks on this system by other clubs: Rooney, Rodwell, Gosling plus anyone else about to make the breakthrough. We don't have the money that Barca have to protect ourselves.
Now, I know we have taken some prospects from other clubs, but that appears to be down to young players who see the Everton youth system as a real opportunity to progress to first team, unhindered by many big name signings, the same with Arsenal, while Liverpool's system appears dead.
I would like to have seen Arsenal at full strength, as well as Barca last night but I still think that Barca play a purer kind of football with less of the diving and cheating of the other top sides. Arsenal's penalty last night was actually a foul on Puyol, who was then sent off.
When under pressure, Barcelona continue to play the same way, the goalkeeper is always part of the pass and move system, never resorting to long kicks, which is how they knocked Chelsea out last season. Sure Chelsea may have been awarded a penalty or two, but their game suffers from the inherent diving and cheating that permeates most of the top Euro sides, the refusal to award the pens a case of the biter bit.
If you can bring yourself to watch, look how Liverpool approach the Benfica game tonight, how they will break up Benfica's rhythm with niggling fouls, diving and pressure on the ref and linesmen (Gerrard, Carragher and Torres in particular). Barca would just go out and play the same way they play every game, home or away.
Are we a million miles from playing like Barcelona? Maybe. Are we a million miles from being able to get a result against Barcelona? Who knows? Until we play them it's going to be difficult to know.
Arsenal and Barcelona play very similar brands of football but Barca do it better. Put against a different style of football, maybe they'd do less well.
Alternatively, maybe we should walk before we run and actually qualify for the Champions League before worrying about not being good enough to beat the best team in the world.
Money is a vital part of being successful in the game... whether we like it or not.
Playing hoofball won`t win you trophies, but playing like Arsenal won`t win trophies either. This season, destroyed at home by United, Chelsea and lucky yesterday.
For me, regarding Everton this means:
1. For every sweet Pienaar, Baines, Arteta combination, let`s make sure we keep the clean sheets.
2. While improving as a passing side, let`s regain our set-piece edge, a little bit lost this season.
3. For every big 4 scalp, keep getting the job done aginst the Hulls and Boltons.
In my mind, the ability to both thrill and be effective is what separates Mancester United from the others, and why they with inferior sides still bring home the trophies.
To sum it up, Arsenal can thrill, but I feel Wenger has lost the plot a little in recent years. His trophy-winning sides had skill in abundance, but matched it with the Adams and Vieiras of this world.
Here`s to Moyes finding that formula and getting the balance right the next years. Up the Blues.
Of course, we are not at Barcelona's level but suggesting it's pointless playing in the Champions League because the current European Champions are very, very good is something of an overreaction.
It's the logic of the playground... 'they outplayed Arsenal, who beat us 6-1... Oh my god what might they do to us'.
You could just as easily suggest that Everton beating both Chelsea and Man Utd, both of whose records in the Champions Leage over the last five years are pretty exceptional, means we could more than hold our own.
Unfortunately, it's Everton's performances and results in European games against the better sides that gives a more realistic view of what we might / might not do in the Champions League...
However, you cannot say that Barca don't cheat when they have a certain Danny Alves in their side, one of the biggest divers in the history of diving, I absolutely hate him.
Although Arsenal where torn apart for the first 25 minutes, I do think it was a poor Arsenal performance.
Messi's weekly wages are over half a million squidaroons... if he came through our youth team, he'd have been sold quicker than Rooney was.
They're on another plannet with regard to footballing ability, so we should stick to what we do well. As someone else mentioned, we'd have looked a lot less dodgy than Arsenal... it was only later in the game when a few tasty tackles gave the Barca players something to think about. If you give them time on the ball like Arsenal did for the first 60 mins or so, they have nothing to panic about (ie: getting your legs broken by a nasty bunch of bastards!!!). But even the most gifted team of players can shit themselves and make mistakes when put under intense pressure.
Sad to see the boy is out for so long, but he has a first touch worse than Andy Johnson.
You have to get a seat at the trough first but as long as the income is invested wisely and not pissed away, which includes stadium redevelopment, youth squad development and even paying some debt off, then you have the seed planted for a potentially much better thing. Whether or not we have the acumen across the board as a club to manage that is doubtful.
If you take them on using long ball, power type of game, strength players , like Chelsea last season and pin them in their own half, then you have a chance.
They are not used to the big robust centre forwards pressurising them (Pique - last night's center half, never made it at Utd , like our famous Krøldrup) and strong midfielders like Essien, Lampard etc .
Saying this you need a REFEREE to let it happen. Too many continental refs are penalising headers, sliding tackles, strong shoulder challenges and to some extent "The British" game suffers in Europe.
They are not unbeateable but I'd rather bet on Chelsea doing them as opposed to Utd or Arsenal. As an afterthought, it would be novel to see how Stoke faired in a one-off at Stoke, on a muddy pitch and raining.
Declan is right about Barca pressing the ball higher up the pitch, you need really quick defenders for that. We were able to do it in the 80s because we had two really fast and strong central defenders in Ratcliffe and Watson. Barca also have two outstanding footballing fullbacks. We need to raise our sights on that one.
I think also that the guys above have correctly pointed out that this Arsenal team aren't as good as some of their predecessors, put under pressure they are not used to and they look lost. In the Premier League now half of the fixtures aren't competitive football matches for the top three (The Sky 3 - you've got to admit it's got a ring to it!).
At least this year we showed at Arsenal that they can be beaten on the ground as well as by just getting 11 men behind the ball. I'd also say that there are reasons for optimism with Everton in terms of the Barca model. We are producing more home grown players of a high standard than any of our Premier League rivals.
The only way of playing Barca is to play an aggressive defensive formation, press every ball and suffocate their best players. Arsenal don’t have that in their locker.
Anyway, back to normality . Bring on West Ham.
The analysis of the game is incorrect, Arsenal didn't struggle because they tried to play football, they struggled because Barcelona are incredible at pressurising opponents high up the pitch when they lose the ball. They simply don't let you pass it around.
This is their greatest strength in the big games, but something that is rarely recognised. It is however a high risk strategy, and leaves them prone to conceding goals, which they do fairly regularly.
As for Krøldrup, he is playing in a very strong Fiorentina side who did the double over Liverpool and were totally robbed in the games against Bayern.
Also as regards the British game, who out of the so called top 4 plays a British game?
Arsenal had one British player on show and he only came on at 0-2. Chelsea don't play it, MU or Liverpool don't either.
On the other hand, Arsenal did not press the ball or make any special team effort to close Barcelona players down or deny them space when they had the ball. This allowed Barcelona to play the game almost as they wished and largely at their own pace.
In other words it was partly due to Barcelona's all-round skill but mainly due in my opinion to bad tactics and preparation from Arsenal.
As somebody has already hinted at.... I would like to see how Barcelona would get on playing 'thugs' like Stoke, Bolton, Birmingham or Liverpool week-in, week-out!
I think it's very unfair to call teams like Bolton or Stoke 'thugs'....We have played decent football in patches this season...and that's the way we are going...and praise be to the Lord..
But not so long ago we invariably employed the kind of game that the Sokes and Bolton's of this league are using..
They are simply playing to their strenghts...like we did.
The only teams that can upset them are the 'muscular' teams such as Chelsea and Liverpool.
As for for Everton — yes, we are a long way from Barcelona... but if we can keep our players, and that is a 'big' if, with the addition of one or two pacy footballers, we will be on the way! I agree with Declan and Larry who are 'spot on' with their points.
Andy, I think it's worth remembering that this Barcelona team may go down in history as one of the greatest of all time. It's not that terrible that we don't compare. As for how well we would do in the CL, I think we'd have a reasonable shout of getting through the group stages. Also I think were very, very close to overtaking Arsenal in terms of who has the better first eleven.
1. Barcelona had 70% of the posession in the first half because they kept the ball and always chased down then ball if they lost it.
2. Barcelona's goals were due to out and out bad defending. Ibrahamovich's goal was pure FIFA2010 and should NEVER have been allowed to happen by a professional team. Yes, it was an outstanding goal but just how bad was Arsenal's defending?
3. Barcelona play the game at a slower pace and Arsenal allowed them to do that. As soon as Walcott came on, that was it. Barcelona defended deeper and Arsenal had more chances.
4. Fabrigas's penalty was amongst one of the most dubious I have ever seen. EVER! Fabrigas backed into Puyol or maybe Puyol accidently collided with Fabrigas. Either way, if it's a penalty it's also a red card.
5. Passing along the ground will always get you further.
To summarise. Barcelona showed how the game is supposed to be played but failed to finish he job. They play at a slower tempo and allowed Arsenal back into the game.
Barcelona are the team to beat but they are beatable.
Sky always seem to say (in order to sell their product, obviously) that our league is the best in the world, but everyone here knows that is isn't — not by a long-shot.
Italy and Spain are FAR more skillful leagues and are better to watch. Stoke, Hull, Bolton, Wigan, Birmingham, Burnley — give me a fuckin' break. Our league is shite, predictable and boring. Simple as that....
Barcelona, whilst a huge regional & international sporting institution, are a fantastic model to follow. As has been pointed out, not just about buying big (their finest players have been there since their youth) it's a philosophy and state of mind.
Unfortunately it helps a little if you're based in one of the world's most beautiful cities, culturally & aesthetically incredible and with an immensely agreeable climate. But their sporting ethos can be emulated. It doesn't guarantee success, as other big teams with not dissimilar cultures will testify (Bayern, Ajax), but it has to be the right way and much more enjoyable.
The beauty of Barcelona is only partly about sporting excellence. It is equally about an identity, a drive, an inclusivity (fans membership) and an approach recognises the two inseparable qualities of high class sport, excellence and beauty.
Inter Milan? Good team. That's it.
Arsenal wanted to play "you play/we play"... Barca just wanted to play "we play". Once Wenger got his side playing as a unit, Barca looked human. Mark my words, this tie is NOT over
a good watch; we've a way to go yet...
The problem is in all cases that one or two silly defensive mistakes can cost you any game. Gallas was a bad selection yesterday by Wenger and that contributed to why the Gooners were overrun early on.
On offence, Everton do not have the passing co-ordination of some of these top Euro teams.
Víctor Valdés
Gerard Piqué
Carles Puyol
Xavi
Andrés Iniesta
Lionel Messi
Bojan Krkić
Sergio Busquets
Pedro
Jeffrén Suárez
Are all current members of Barcelona's first-team squad who came through their youth system. That's 10 out of 21 players.
They are, unfortunately, vulnerable to 'poaching' of players, as Fabregas & Piqué demonstrate. Less well known examples are Arsenal's Fran Merida, Liverpool's Daniel Pacheco and Juventus's Iago Falqué.
Their famed academy, La Masia, was formed in 1979 and probably really started producing players in the 1980s — like Guardiola himself. As someone else said, it's a long-term plan.
It should also be remembered that Barcelona is a city of between 2 and 4 million people, in a region (Catalonia/Catalunya) of around 7 million. That's many more than we can compete with in terms of a local pool of players. Plus, their dominant position also makes them one of the most attractive clubs to join in Spain, whereas we have local neighbours in both Liverpool and Manchester who have more 'pulling power'.
Don't forget, that while there are 10 youth-team players in their squad, Iniesta, Pedro and Jeffren all came from elsewhere in Spain (Jeffren originally from Venezuela), and of course Messi was recruited from Argentina aged 13.
It's a tough comparison to make (between Everton and Barca), but it's surely what we have to aim for - after all, Harvey, Hurst, Labone, Royle, Whittle and Wright from 1970 were all youth team players. The 1985 side had Stevens and Ratcliffe from the youth system, plus Southall, Mountfield, Reid, Harper, Sheedy and Sharp who were either from the local area or acquired on the cheap when young. It can be done!
We can do that with Felli, Arteta, Rodwell, but what we miss is pace. Give us Alves and Pedro, I think we would walk into the Champions League. Also, guys, this group of players have played with eachother a long time. COYB
We seem to be hitting on a style of football that really works. Nice passing, keeping it simple, but with a few physical, more nasty players such as Fellaini and Heitinga. Who both are very talented ball players as well.
What we really need to make the next big step, is that player (or two), who can really make a difference by themselves. A world class forward, or right winger would complete us, I think.
Also, we seem to be seeing signs of signing the world's top young talent. We have that Mustafi kid we bought last summer, there's others coming through the academy, like Duffy (not to mention Rodwell), and we do actively seem to be targeting the youth set-up.
Keep the faith, keep believing, and let's hope for that player who makes the difference.
I have called for us to play proper football. Now I have doubts. Mowbray and Martinez play proper football and they have both failed.
Last night's game suggested to me that if you are going to play football then you have to be bloody good at it. Are we nearing the point of being that good? I would like to think so but I fear not. Would Arsenal, with a Dogs of War attitude, have done better? What do you think?
I don't know, they were beautiful to watch last night. Certainly a team capable of such a performance. Like when we went into Man City last week and put it on them.
I didn't feel anything like, "Wow, they're so much better than an EPL top side". Just great viewing of a game that meant nothing to this Toffee fan other than the quality of play.
Maybe next week is Arsenal's turn. I'm still remembering this same high-flying side Barcelona , getting squeezed in a vice twice by Chelsea, who were jobbed by the referee in the 2nd leg.
As far as comparisons with EFC? They got where they are their way, we're getting there ours. And we are getting there.
Our strength is usually our defence but, with the way we're playing lately, we may have found the right balance that will become the "Everton Way". If we do this and keep our squad together, we could be overtaking the Arse sooner rather than later!
The true greats, can do both and know when to do it as the circumstances demand.
A view of the 1967 game Vs United on vimeo shows. Time with out number, the united fancy dans took just that tenth of a second too long to decide what to do with the ball, OR on reflection the closing and harring Blue players were that tenth of a second quicker mentally to see and snuff out the danger.
Harvey Kendall Ball Morrissey and even Alex were mentally faster and took turns in being the ball winner. Young I think was doing the Osman role of minder infront of BOTH Wilson and Wright...and his goal for the third was a cracker...All against the team that went on to win the European cup when it was hard to win.
As for the Acadamy thing. You can't make silk purses out of sows ears especially if what they teaching them is hoofball.
Prime ministers and Governments and Football Managers come and go but the Civil Service goes on and on. We need to set in place a footballing civilservice that goes on and on no matter who is in the bosses seat
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1 Posted 01/04/2010 at 07:58:45
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I'm more impressed with Inter Milan. Anyway, welcome to the real world.