The Mail Bag
Next Season
Comments (84)
Having had a good day out at Wigan but seriously disappointed by the real lack of any quality on the pitch, our group stayed in a reasonable pub in Wigan and talked as usual about the future of Everton.
Of course, we almost totally accept that financially nothing will change so we all agreed it would be very much of the same as this season. The debate centred around what can be done with very little and how to get the best out of payers and situations and individual games. The number of games this season that were realistically there for the taking and it was only our own lack of ambition and seemingly courage that meant we came away with nil points or one when we should have taken all three.
Today, I have read the papers and looked through all the websites and see Round talking up Anichebe. Not just talking him up but saying how impressed he was with Victor on Saturday. Well, I was sat in the first row (the 3rd row actually ? the first 2 were empty?) behind the goal and I saw nothing from Anichebe that might give me hope that he would ever come good. Having heard people's comments around me and the reviews of the way he played, Round must have been at a different game. But I am not judging Anichebe by one game ? he has featured in well more than 100 games ? and for me offers absolutely nothing, as he did on Saturday.
I guess we, the fans, are being prepared for next season. This is what we will be watching... with exactly the same outcome, most of us agreed on Saturday evening. Very little is going to change.
While certainly not blaming one player for all of our current ills, it is rather indicative on Moyes/Round that we are fed this terrible football. Saturday's game was dreadful, dull and totally uninspiring ? like so many this season ? and I guess like so many will be next season under the current regime at Goodison.
Finally we talked about Season Tickets for next season, I buy four, for myself, my daughter and grandsons. Will I renew next year? Most probably... because I believe things will change? No! Because I love going to the match, the ritual, the whole day and of course Everton.
Do I love the current regime's style of football? No!
So I guess its Anichebe up front next season.
George McKane, Posted 02/05/2011 at 11:13:29
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Which ones? The sooner you realise that we are nowhere as good as we like to think we are, you will feel better. Trust me, I used to be the angry hit head too, still on on some topics, but I have realised that our players, whilst some are ok, the others and certainly the subs are pretty much gash.
Anichebe is a joke of a player but so is Beckford and Saha (now). Vaughan and Fat Yak will soon be gone and unfortunately unless we mug someone for Rodwell or sell Felliani, we will have no money to replace them
I have just read an article from Tim Howard saying we will invest in some top quality players this summer. Does he know something we don't know? Is the club being sold or has Kenwright and the board found some magical money from somewhere?.
It sounds like a promising interview but could also be a smoke screen, either way I hope it is true, but I would rather see a cash injection spent by a new manager ? I don't want any more Bilys. COYB!!!
Tim Howard is the latest to come out with a bullshit statement that "Everton will buy QUALITY players this summer." Really, Tim; how comes Moyes stated last week that the funds would be small again this summer?
I'm fucking sick of the players chairman and manager taking the piss out of the fans, for example Moyes said he would bring in two or three faces in January, Kenwright with the infamous "Watch this space?" One of the directors stating "Wow!" at our potential transfer list a few seasons ago... can these people stop taking the fucking piss out of us and just do their job!!
Anichebe is not even Championship standard in my opinion. It's not his fault that he is picked though. It's selections like that that make me query Moyes's judgement.
As for player comments, keep in mind that there is a constant news cycle that has to be fed. As someone commented recently on another thread, players often say stupid things because they get asked stupid questions. Again, what do we expect as fans ? that players come out and slag the club or each other off? I just take it all with a massive pinch of salt (and an occasional stiff whisky).
I can honestly say it disgusts me to see him in an Everton shirt. I can only hope that Moyes is going to pull off some sort of masterstroke and get a decent fee for him. However, unfortunately I think he maybe hanging round and stinking the place out for several years yet.
Yakubu has scored more goals for Everton this season than Anichebe and he's hardly played, been on loan since Jan scored 10 goals. How many has Anichebe scored in this time?
SAHA is well better than anyone we have on the books and he was SURPLUS to requirements at UTD as he became injury prone and is ageing !!
We are PRIMARK and POUNDSHOP customers, soon it will be CHARITY SHOPS !!
If you think that Vaughan was not given a real chance then you must have a real blind spot....
Taxi for Moyes.
Unlike the darlings, he wasnt playing in all those fucken awful home draws and defeats against bottom of the table opposition. But you'd think he had singlehandedly ruined our season.
In the short period of playing time he has done good things people have gone out of their way to try to pretend it didn't happen:
He was terrific against playing on his own against Kompany ? a top class center back ? at Eastlands. He was also terrific at Anfield, He had a hand in goals at both games.
He laid on THREE open goals at St James Park ? all missed by others.
He had John Terry whining like fuck to the referee after he had spent the first half marking Beckford from a deckchair and like in the other games I have mentioned we went on to win.
He also gave Man Utd`s defence more problems in 5 minutes than the rest of the team had given them all afternoon.
No he hasn't scored, but that might have something to do with the fact that he usually gets 10 minutes on the wing. Or is asked to fight for possession with a center half on the half way line. Do people really believe he wouldnt rather be in the box than be asked to hold shit passes up against people like Ferdinand, Terry, Kompany?
Vic will never be top class, but somebody come on here and tell me any of the above isnt true... and then tell me the abuse he takes isn't totally disproportionate.
This is a local thing alright, just as it is with Hibbo and Osman and many many more before them. Vic wasn't good on Saturday, but he was nowhere near as bad as Cahill, Arteta, Neville, Beckford or Captain hoofball yet he has taken more abuse than all of them put togethter.
I really wish for the lads sake he could get to fuck, but when he tried to, he was slaughtered when the Sun readers read about that too.
Man City away he was sent off after 55 minutes, almost costing us the game, because of stupid tackles. Liverpool away in the first half we were aniliated in all but goals because Anichebe or Beckford were unable to actually hold the ball up.
A local lad from Nigeria? Where he comes from has got nothing to do with it anyway. If you're shit ? you're shit. I don't remember people saying Peter Reid, Brian Labone or Wayne Rooney were shit because they were local lads.
The lad isn't good enough.
Arteta also getting huge amounts of abuse on his first game back.
Taking a day off slaughtering Hibbert so you can have a go at Anichebe?
Anichebe was sent off after a ridiculous decision by the ref at City ? so you kinda prove my point ? I don't give two fucks what anybody thinks of Anichebe, that's not the point. A blind man can see the blame he takes is disproportinate but then again, Brian, at least it glosses over the abject performances of your sweethearts.
If you don't remember Reid taking stick or can't name at least a dozen local boys who have taken stick, you know nowhere near as much as you think you do.
Sorry, Dave, it's nothing personal but I'll take Graeme Sharp's opinion over yours when it comes to strikers. He said on Saturday that he didn't see too much in Victor at the Academy when he was 17 and sees even less now!!
Also, let's not forget he's now 23 and not some young kid. We possess the worst strike force in the Prem and with Victor or Beckford at the heart of it then we will always struggle as neither are anywhere near good enough for the Premier League!!
I was at most of the games that you mentioned and you conveniently forgot the three sitters he missed at Newcastle.
By the way, I saw Anichebe at the Academy when he was 15 and I must say that he never impressed me much there either.
If anyone has sweethearts, Dave, it's clearly you with Hibbert and Anichebe. You don't find me wanking over any players like you do with them two.
As for knowledge mate, you have forever been banging on that Anichebe should be first choice right winger. Dave Wilson's dream team right side of Hibbert and Anichebe. That tells me all I need to know about your footballing knowledge. Also, one of the games you hightlighted was one where he actually nearly cost us the game says it all.
No player at any club has taken abuse for being local. If anything it would be the complete opposite. How you can defend Anichebe is beyond me? I was talking with some of the lads during the Wigan game and he is possibly one of and will probably end up being the most hated Everton player.
Moyes needs to unearth a couple of cheap striking gems otherwise next season will be no better than the mediocrity that has pervaded this season. Like him or loath Moyes, his odds on being able to do that are very low ? mediocrity reigns ? Kenwright has ensured our motto is completely empty through his thorough ineptitude.
You can't be serious, questioning the amount of games that have been there for the taking this season?
Try Wolves, Wigan, West Ham, Birmingham, Villa and Bolton at home. Add to that West Ham, Wigan, Blackpool, Birmingham, Sunderland, Fulham and Liverpool away. All games that, with a little more attacking ambition, we could and maybe should have won. For this, the blame lies squarely with Moyes. Yes, we would lose some of these games in trying to win but we would definitely be on more points with a more aggressive attitude.
There is only the top 4 that have lost less games than us and yet we only have 11 wins and 15 draws and you question that there haven't been games there for the taking?
Anichebe could not be less arsed, I bet he doesn't even stay late after training to work on his touch or shooting which drastically need to improve.
I have never and would never boo ANY Everton player as I want them to do well for Everton, I want them focused. I admit though, my heart sinks whenever his name is in the squad.
I am not discussing Anichibe's ability. I am 'discussing the disproportinate and distorted blame he takes. Here's a couple of classic examples:
Brian claims it was Anichebe's inabilty to hold the ball up that gave Liverpool the upper hand in the first half at Anfield ? utter bollocks. Moyes was slaughtered for another "magnificent draw" when he played Beckford up front on his own. Everyone but Brian knows Vic played on the left.
Ray takes it a step further ? he miraculously saw Vic miss three sitters at Newcastle; again, just not true. I was there and I saw it on the box too, you will not find a single report or any TV footage showing Vic miss a sitter. He came on in the second half played on the left, and didn't miss any chances.
Classic examples guys.
If you seriously think that he is not trying with then you must be joking. Of all managers, Moyes would not condone poor work rates.
He's still relatively young and we don't have many options so quit moaning.
Yak got dropped at Leicester and Vaughan hasn't exactly set the Championship alight so it's not like we are awash with options.
You're not the only one who goes to matches you know.
You are a disgrace, HATED? HATED?
I don't care what anybody thinks of his ability, you say far more about yourself than anything you can say about Victor Anichebe. I`m out of this thread, the stench of hatred towards one of our players is making me feel queezy.
If that's an example of one of his best performances, together with the game at City that he nearly cost us, it doesn't give us much hope.
Virtually every post here agrees he's shit. Enough said.
In my view, every Everton player has underperformed this season. Moyes has to take his share of the blame but this nicey, nicey squad are all to blame. Picking out individuals is wrong.
No matter what spin or spreading with jam or honey you want to put on that, it's a shite return for a striker.
So why, when on form and league position were these games "there for the taking"? In my opinion, one of the worst phrases on here. Some poster even said it about Man Utd... laughable.
Again, I will put a thought out there. We are not as good as we like to think we are.
You blame Moyes, full stop. I blame Moyes, the players and the board collectively.
As you don't seem to be peddling hate, I will answer you: If you class giving people in better positions the ball as 'sitters', I won't argue with you.
Let me ask you: do you feel the vilification and "hatred" of a man who has played so little football is justified? And do you think we would have finished any higher if Victor Anichebe had not put on an Everton shirt this season?
I am not arguing about Anichebe's ability. I am arguing about the abuse and the stomach-churning hatred directed him
I'll ask you the same questions I`ve asked Ray.
I dont know why I let it bother me in the first place. You have just highlighted the absurdity of it.
It doesn't matter that he's shit,we all know he's shit. The fact is that Vic seems to think he is someone with all that arm-waving and throwing himself to the ground at the slightest touch.
That is what pisses people off about him. At times it appears as though he puts in no effort at all. AT ALL.
I would never level that accusation at Cahill, Neville, Arteta or Seamus. In fact,the only other person you could say is guilty of not trying hard enough is Bily.
But at least he does show some real quality sometimes. Unlike little, frail, weak-willed Vic.
I don't like him nor rate him! At best he will become a poor mans Emile Heskey. In the Championship... or League 1.
Let me make it absolutely clear. I do not hate any Everton player nor do I boo my own players. In another thread, I stated that it is not Anichebe's fault that he is picked. Why are you asking me the question anyway as you admit that I don't "peddle hate"?
My view is that Anichebe is not good enough, never has been and never will be. It has nothing to do with his being local ? it's my opinion based on 50 years of watching Everton and making comparative judgements.
I'd go so far as to say that I'm embarrassed for the lad ? he's clearly out of his depth and that says more about Moyes and Round than anyone.
Do I think we'd have been better off without him this season? Well I guess that playing with 11 men has got to be better than playing with 10 ? but in his case, only marginally.
As for the chances at Newcastle ? any striker worth his salt would exploited the openings that he had ? he passed the ball to other players because he bottled it, not because they were necessarily in a better position.
Apologies if I gave you the impression I thought you were peddling hate; on the contrary, I asked you the questions because I knew you weren't.
When assessing any of our own players, ask which other team would they get into? Anichebe would look poor playing for Macclesfield Town.
Just because 'there for the taking' is a well used footballing phrasendoes not mean it cannot be used in certain valid instances.
This comes down to a matter of opinion; I happen to disagree with you if you think those games were not there to be won. I never mentioned the Man Utd game but I would argue that all the games I listed could have been won with a bit more attacking ambition by the manager.
I have no idea whether those teams were above us or not as to me it is irrelevant. Are you suggesting that we should not be beating those teams with the squad we have? I would say all bar the shite away we should be trying to turn a draw into a win and that was one game that really was there for the taking (apologies for the use of that phrase) when the game was at 2-2 ? in fact with any ambition we would have scored more at 2-1 when their heads had gone but typically Moyes sat back and we paid the price.
Moyes has done a great job at Everton but he does it by cautious tactics and won't change.
Actually, in 45 years of watching Everton I don't recall many non-triers. David Ginloa is probably as bad a performer I have ever seen in an Everton shirt. (Sorry, I can't be arsed writing that again, but I'll put Nyarko ahead of him.) Victor was Mr perpetual motion beside him.
The number of posts on here slating nearly 90% of our players are then coupled with the "they were there for the taking" If our team/manager is so shit, why do we always expect to beat the teams who usually finish mid or lower table?
Our form was diabolical at the start at the season, so it was obvious that we were "there for the taking" but surprising, this season, we have not lost two league games on the bounce.... yet!
Well done mate in finally opening your eyes.
'Peddling hate' - you are funny Dave.
He is shit, his attitude stinks but he is not the reason why were are where we are now, the rest of the better players have also let us down, along with predictable selections.
I will never agree with you, I pointed out his good games because I am fair minded and will give any body credit where its due, the hate filled could never do that.
That is why I`m out.
To me, you loose all credibility when you write this preposterous 'local lad' nonsense. You get everyone's backs up by calling it 'abuse' and 'hatred' when people are simply telling it like it is ? the lad is shit. But that's a red rag to The Man Who Will Argue About Anything And Nothing.
Perhaps a spell in the sin-bin might help?
Why don't the so-called fans with the vitriol in their pens point the abuse towards the board? No one has yet answered anything about why we cannot afford strikers like Zamora, Odemwingie or all the others that are much better than the strikers we have who are playing for clubs below us in the league.
DM recently said that EFC do't sell cheap... what about Pienaar and Gosling? One for £3 mill and one on a free due to total mismanagement.
We have no-one coming through and supposedly no money to spend so why pick on Vic for all the problems? He is not up to standard but he is not the only one, and he cost much less than other non-performers.
He'll be telling us next that Moyes is a tactcal genius & chairman Bill's as honest as the day's long.
To me, it stinks of Round trying to big up a player's confidence, and a player who clearly isn't good enough to play for Everton or any Premier League team.
If Vic is our lone striker upfront next season, God help us all; if he played 20 games upfront in a row, I would be shocked if he managed more than two goals.
Let's keep the personal abuse to one side. However, Anichebe and Beckford as Everton's strike force wth occaisional support from a mainly 'hors jeu' Saha next season doesn't fill me with optimism. Even a fat Yak would be better than those two put together.
Shoot me down, but even Yakubu and Vaughan together, would be a livelier starting strike pairing and Vaughan would put a shift in.
There was a moment in a cup game against Villa I think, where he picked the ball up just over the half way line and flew at Villa, skinning at least three men with an incredible burst of pace and close control before getting hacked to the ground. At that moment in time, I thought we might have a real player here. It looked almost Brazillian-esque.
Sadly, I think that was about three years ago and I've been waiting to see more like this from him ever since. What I have seen instead is a moody, often lazy kid, with a tendency to look like bamby on ice when he's actually built like an ox.
The point about JV and the Yak going out on loan rather than Vic is a good one. I feel Vic is the one which would benefit the most out of a spell in the lower leagues. If this lad is ever going to come good - he needs to be playing 90 minutes week in week out - up front - and it would be great to see him start banging them in and finding some confidence.
There is still 5% of me that thinks he could still be a good player. The other 95% of me has given up all hope.
Anichebe, it should be pointed out, isn't the reason for this season's struggles, but do Moyes and Round believe he is capable of playing in a top four side?
It seems Moyes turning to Anichebe is him telling the fans, "I know better than you and I will do things my way."
Was he given a contract as Moyes believes he can also do a job in midfield? I can accept when signing players things can go wrong but Anichebe has been at Everton for years and apart from a couple of goals in Europe has never looked anything more than a last ten minutes sub and that was at his best.
We really have to question Moyes as he is not a panic buy or last minute knee jerk reaction signing, just what qualities do they see in him as either a striker who doesn't strike or a midfielder?
I honestly believe Vellios would offer more and that's having only seen ten minutes of him and based on he couldn't be any fuckin worse.
Vic is shit but it's because of his manager he's still at the club.
You do the math folks.
I dont buy into the laziness thing though, I think its something the sheep in the stands have got in their heads and arent going to let go of, cue abuse...
We desperately need to clear out the incompetent easily satisfied incumbents of our coaching panel.
As for next season I see plans are well under way for a same old same old pre-season. About six games into the new season, we will screaming about how unfit and unprepared our squad is.
It does not need a clairvoyant to make that forecast.
David Moyes obviously thinks that Vic is good. He must have had a hand in engineering the contract. I am not defending Anichebe, just unhappy at the stick he gets. Here's why:
- Bily, gets stick. Is he any good? Who knows, he's played out of position and hasn't had the run of games he needs.
- Beckford, never a lone striker. Played as one at Old Trafford.
- Fellaini, his proper place has been found. Did he actually play as a striker?
- Jagielka, was he played as a holding midfielder?
- Baines, kept out of the left back spot by that magnificent left back, Lescott.
- Arteta, given a lucrative contract at exactly the moment a prudent manager would have cashed in.
- Vaughan, full of pace, a point to prove, in a squad short of strikers. Fucked off elsewhere.
Beckford ? questionable attitude and has only shown that he is a prospect in fits and starts;
Yakubu ? finding his level post Achilles injury on the bench in League 1;
Saha ? nursing his ankle and reverting to type as the injury-prone player that he has always been;
Vaughan ? cutting his teeth with a prolonged loan spell that may define his career.
I'm not Anichebe's biggest fan for all the issues previously raised but, without a pot to piss in, what really are the alternatives?
I suppose we are often in positions to win games due to Moyes's cautious tactics, ie, we generally either win by one goal, lose by one goal, or draw!
I still believe Moyes uses the same tactics as when we had a team with less ability than the one he has now and that, if he trusted the players more, then we would be more potent. That was the point I was making, and I still believe it to be correct... although I appreciate your viewpoint.
Our expectations are too high for this player. No point gnashing your teeth over him.
I could reel off a list of Championship strikers who imo are not good enough to play for Everton but all have more to offer than Anichebe.
Yes we are skint but should it be hard to replace a striker whose biggest quality is his size? Apart from his goal at Birmingham, I have never seen Anichebe strike a ball cleanly.
People are of course perfectly entitled to think and say that he's shit, but victimisation is unhelpful. He plays because we have no other options and does the best that he can with limited ability.
IMO Vaughan and Yak really aren't much better and I even remember Saha getting a similar level of abuse at the start of the season. Beckford is marmite.
We all hope to buy a better striker this summer but it may well not happen, in which case we have to try and get behind whichever one of our uninspiring present collection gets the spot.
I keep returning because people are directing there posts to me.
I did not introduce the word hate - that was done by Brian Lawlor #22 when discribing the way he feels about the player.
Despite claims from some posters, nobody will find a post from me claiming Anichebe is a good player. My point is simple one. I have repeatedly said the abuse this guy gets is completely out of proportion with the actual effect he has on our club. I believe some people refuse to acknowledge he does anything good at all so I put up what I believe to be some examples. I also believe that the way he is treated by our fans is completely counter productive to what we want. If a guys playing badly and short on confidence is a sustained and prolonged battering the best way to help him?
I believe people within the club share my opinion.
I don't think for one minute Steve Round thinks he played well, what is significant is he talks about Anichebe's lack of belief and the need to win over the fans. This would suggest club are acutely aware of the situation.
This point is central to the debate.
That's his own fault.
Why he gets a game is Moyes's fault.
Why Moyes is still here is Kenwright's fault.
Why Kenwright is still here is our fault, we put up with him.
Vaughan has started 2 games for us since 2007 so I think I have every right to state that he's hardly been given a chance compared with Anichebe who hasn't scored since when exactly? Anichebe had potential a few years ago but that injury knocked him back and he can't even last a full game so why give him a new long-term contract?
Don't blame Vic... he is just another one of a very poor bunch... as I have said on numerous occasions... SAHA is the only striker we have who has the ability to score and also ball control/pace... but we got him too late!!
Although he is the last striker we have who won MotM against Blackpool... none of the others have.
My mail was not an attack on Anichebe, although I do not rate him at all, but a general comment of what to expect next season taking into account Round's statement. I do not boo or scream at individual players at the game but of course mention my concerns, thoughts, ideas, good and bad after the game in the pub. I certainly do not boo local players.
I accept loss of form, bad days... but some of the players seem to offer very little for the future. I personally heard a great deal of complaints, criticism, moaning about Rodwell during and after Saturday's game but in my opinion he still looks more like a footballer than Anichebe ever does.
I can see Round's possible concept of praise boosting confidence but again personally I like the talking done on the pitch by players and management.
Incensed with this "Anichebe gets abuse because he's a local lad" garbage that you neatly avoided that in your latest contribution. For that piece of twaddle, you lose all credibility.
Round didn't need to comment, but he did... and what he said was in effect, "Yes, we all know he's shit but we picked him rather than give the less experienced alternatives a chance and, hey, he played a little bit better than he has recently ? that's progress!"
It was not a flounce, rather a refusal to discuss our players with people who wanted to talk about "hating" them.
I didn't just say Anichebe gets abuse, I named two other local lads ? Hibbert and Ossie because I regularly witness people going to extrordinary lengths to make sure they get no credit.
I said last season that it would only be a matter of time before Rodwell got it and he is ? just like players like Reid, Ebrell, Watson, Harper and many others.
You may think its garbage, but I have personally spoken to players about it. The club is aware of it, Davey Moyes even spoke about it when guesting on Goals on Sunday.
I`m out now, not as a flounce but because I`ve had me say.
Anichebe gets abuse because he is shit ? NOT because he is a local lad.
Hibbert gets assessed critically because of weaknesses in his game ? NOT because he is a local lad.
Osman frustrates also because of weaknesses in his game ? NOT because he is a local lad.
Rodwell is starting to get critical attention because he has failed to improve or show any of the great promise that was there, and he has if anything gone backwards under Moyes's expert tutelage (injuries notwithstanding) ? NOT because he is a local lad.
To suggest that these players are subjected to perfectly valid critical assessments from the fans because they are LOCAL, and not because they are playing poorly for one reason or another, is a total kopout and is deeply insulting to the intelligence of many Evertonians who don't need your mendacious interpretations for what they can see with their own eyes.
"mendacious"
sounds like something David Moyes would say!!!
It's not my intention to insult anyone's intelligence, I would like to think if anybody thinks what I say shite, they will merely shrug their shoulders and treat it as such.
I won't argue with what you say, if they play shite they should get it.
But when I get to GP on Saturday, three players will be getting stick from certain sections of the crowd before a ball is kicked...
And I can name them now.
The guy disgusts me and I find it embarrassing he is an Everton player.
It's no suprise we haven't been able to turn around our poor home form in this atmosphere, the pressure the 'hated' players, whomever is flavour of the month for the boo boys, is ridiculous.
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1 Posted 02/05/2011 at 14:49:50
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I don't necessarily blame Moyes for taking a chance on Anichebe, but I will blame him if the latter is still on Everton's books next season.