The Mail Bag
The only way forward
Comments (54)
The Kenwright debate will run on for as long as he is in charge. Fans state we are better off in his control than some big investor that only wants to use us as a plaything; others suggest we need to sell to progress... I believe in the latter and I have two points to put across to fans on the way I believe we can take Everton forward.
1. Firstly, if Bill Kenwright really wants to sell the club, why doesn't he put it on the market for £1, like other clubs have done in the past? Sell the club for a quid and the new owner buys the debt, say £70-80 million, then the new owners could look to update the stadium in stages while giving the manager serious funds to compete at the top level. Of course, the downside to this is that Kenwright and Co won't receive a big payoff.
2. The stadium issue, now if the club wants to raise funds, why not sell us fans the bricks? One brick could cost £100... for your £100 you will have your name and date of birth etched into the brick. Therefore, you will become a part of the future history of the club that we all love. I for one would buy one.
What do Evertonians think of these ideas?
Sean McKenna, Posted 12/05/2011 at 12:03:44
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
Who the hell is going to do all the etching? And wouldn't that cost quite a bit of the £100 per brick?
I could get my name etched into the post that blocks my view of free kicks at the edge of the box!
Sean ? regarding your first point, BK would not do that as he is not as honourable as Jack Heywood or Dave Whelan.
Regarding your brick idea ? I've heard a lot worse, Desperation Kirkby being one.
It's late afternoon... this post lost me, sorry but nada nada to both!
Why should anyone expect BK to sell for a pound?
Sean, at least you are coming with ideas for debate.
I want Kenwright out, so your first idea sounds great on the face of it. However, I suspect that it is not Kenwright who pulls the strings. I guess - and I have no firm evidence - that major financial decisions are taken by Messrs Green and Earl, and they will not want to sell cheaply.
One the bricks idea, Sam at No. 2 makes a fair point, but if fans are going to put money in then there must be a mechanism for fan-based control, such as a supporters trust, or the club becoming a membership club on the lines of the Spanish model.
I see no reason why supporters should put money in, without any change to the current regime or management/ownership structure. I have no desire to bail Kenwright and his cohorts out.
I want Kenwright out, so your first idea sounds great on the face of it. However, I suspect that it is not Kenwright who pulls the strings. I guess - and I have no firm evidence - that major financial decisions are taken by Messrs Green and Earl, and they will not want to sell cheaply.
One the bricks idea, Sam at No. 2 makes a fair point, but if fans are going to put money in then there must be a mechanism for fan-based control, such as a supporters trust, or the club becoming a membership club on the lines of the Spanish model.
I see no reason why supporters should put money in, without any change to the current regime or management/ownership structure. I have no desire to bail Kenwright and his cohorts out.
Sean, I want Kenwright out as much as you, but he and his coconspirators are going to want a return on their investment.
As for the brick idea, Sunderland have a wall of fame, where fans can pay £35 to have their name etched on a brick and also receive a certificate ? they even do brick tours... god knows why.
As for the brick idea, Sunderland have a wall of fame, where fans can pay £35 to have their name etched on a brick and also receive a certificate ? they even do brick tours... god knows why.
First point is daft, why would he sell for a quid? He isn't THAT bad a businessman... close but not that bad.
Second idea is good but I would want a personal and written agreement that the £100 I spent would got to the club and not the bank or to pay off some dodgy investor in the background wanting his moolah back.
Second idea is good but I would want a personal and written agreement that the £100 I spent would got to the club and not the bank or to pay off some dodgy investor in the background wanting his moolah back.
Be a fucking big stadium to raise the money to pay for it and Stadium costs £100m say. Need 1 million everton fans to buy one!
Plus knowing my luck my brick will be top right 25 ft from view - pretty sure i might get nicked if i take a ladder to the outside of goodison to view it !!
Do they even use bricks now? It's mainly steel, glass and concrete.
The fact that Kenwright won't sell for a pound is the exact reason that he shouldn't be classed as an Evertonian. Despite how much he says he is, he isn't. Where was he the night of the Reading game?
That bastard has mismanaged our club's finances for years and years. Instead of Kirkby he may as well have stood in the street and set fire to £5million pounds. Having run up so much debt, why should he walk away with a nice tidy profit?
Some of you need to have a word with yourselves. It is absolutely NOT acceptable for that liar to walk away from our club richer than when he entered it. Perhaps the club would be a far more attractive investment if the buyers only had to service our debt and not Kenwright's pockets.
The fact that Kenwright won't sell for a pound is the exact reason that he shouldn't be classed as an Evertonian. Despite how much he says he is, he isn't. Where was he the night of the Reading game?
That bastard has mismanaged our club's finances for years and years. Instead of Kirkby he may as well have stood in the street and set fire to £5million pounds. Having run up so much debt, why should he walk away with a nice tidy profit?
Some of you need to have a word with yourselves. It is absolutely NOT acceptable for that liar to walk away from our club richer than when he entered it. Perhaps the club would be a far more attractive investment if the buyers only had to service our debt and not Kenwright's pockets.
Hey if they ended up flogging personalised bricks for 100 quid I would buy one, as long as the money does go to the building of the stadium as stated by others.
I've heard the "if Kenwright loves the club he should sell it for a pound" argument before, and yeah sure, that'd be great. But it's a useless argument because he won't do that, so there is no point dwelling on the idea.
I think we will probably have to wait for kenwright to become old and invalid or otherwise die before we see a change in ownership. Now I'm no fan of the guy, but I don't wish death on him either. Anyways, it seems that the bigger the bastard, the longer they live, so we might be in for one hell of a wait.
I'm hoping I strike oil in my backyard and become a billionaire so I can by the club off him myself. I think it's more likely than Kenwright flogging the club for a pound.
I'm heading out back now to start digging holes, will let you all know when I strike that liquid gold.
I've heard the "if Kenwright loves the club he should sell it for a pound" argument before, and yeah sure, that'd be great. But it's a useless argument because he won't do that, so there is no point dwelling on the idea.
I think we will probably have to wait for kenwright to become old and invalid or otherwise die before we see a change in ownership. Now I'm no fan of the guy, but I don't wish death on him either. Anyways, it seems that the bigger the bastard, the longer they live, so we might be in for one hell of a wait.
I'm hoping I strike oil in my backyard and become a billionaire so I can by the club off him myself. I think it's more likely than Kenwright flogging the club for a pound.
I'm heading out back now to start digging holes, will let you all know when I strike that liquid gold.
Kenwright would be asking for trouble if he started selling personalised bricks!
"The fact that Kenwright won't sell for a pound is the exact reason that he shouldn't be classed as an Evertonian" - Why's that then?
"Better off in his control than some big investor that only wants to use us as a plaything.:"
....they can play as much as they want in my view, a la Abramovich, provided it makes us competitive.
....they can play as much as they want in my view, a la Abramovich, provided it makes us competitive.
Regarding the bricks, they do this at Ibrox and they are precast forms placed over the existing brickwork that look like bricks but obviously have the names cast into them, it's very simple to do. They could be placed all around the ground at street level.
Has anyone thought about the fans trust buying Goodison Park itself and renting it back to the club? The trust take on the mortgage(s) and the rent from the club goes towards renovation/modernisation where BK and the board wouldn't have the opportunity to fuck it up, the trust as owners of the ground decide the approach and rebuild, revenue from rent and any additional buildings such as offices, car park and leisure give shareholders in the trust a choice of dividend or reinvestment.
Has anyone thought about the fans trust buying Goodison Park itself and renting it back to the club? The trust take on the mortgage(s) and the rent from the club goes towards renovation/modernisation where BK and the board wouldn't have the opportunity to fuck it up, the trust as owners of the ground decide the approach and rebuild, revenue from rent and any additional buildings such as offices, car park and leisure give shareholders in the trust a choice of dividend or reinvestment.
"The fact that Kenwright won't sell for a pound is the exact reason that he shouldn't be classed as an Evertonian."
Without any shadow of a doubt, the most ridiculous thing I have ever read in my life.
1. What kind of owner would we attract for a fucking pound?
2. Why on earth should anybody sell a club worth millions for a pound? However much they love it? A reluctance to destroy your livelihood ? and the livelihoods of those dear to you ? does not mean you are not an Evertonian
Jesus wept, I'm no BK fan but I'm absolutely seething at that comment. It sums up why this fantastic website gets so much stick.
Without any shadow of a doubt, the most ridiculous thing I have ever read in my life.
1. What kind of owner would we attract for a fucking pound?
2. Why on earth should anybody sell a club worth millions for a pound? However much they love it? A reluctance to destroy your livelihood ? and the livelihoods of those dear to you ? does not mean you are not an Evertonian
Jesus wept, I'm no BK fan but I'm absolutely seething at that comment. It sums up why this fantastic website gets so much stick.
Paul, I think the idea is that he shouldn't get more back than he put in - if he were to sell up at NO LOSS (even if that also means NO PROFIT) then it would show he had the club's interests at heart, rather than lining his own pockets.
However since the finances of the club are so byzantine, nobody has a fucking clue how much any of them have put in of their OWN money. I know how much of MY own money I've put in for my one share, but as for the Board, with their 'Holding Companies', 'Blind Trusts', 'Special Purpose Vehicles' etc etc etc who knows?
However since the finances of the club are so byzantine, nobody has a fucking clue how much any of them have put in of their OWN money. I know how much of MY own money I've put in for my one share, but as for the Board, with their 'Holding Companies', 'Blind Trusts', 'Special Purpose Vehicles' etc etc etc who knows?
He doesn't own the club so he can't agree its sale whether at a loss, profit or whatever. Apparently though as an Evertonian he should be prepared to write off the millions he invested, borrowed or not, to buy his shares? Yeah right!
I'd happily invest in some fan share arrangement (or brick buying) if it would assist the club in moving forward.
I'd happily invest in some fan share arrangement (or brick buying) if it would assist the club in moving forward.
What kind of idiot would sell off millions of dollars in investment for nothing? He also has investors who care little for Everton so good luck getting them to sign off. Selling for nothing is only an option if the loans get so big that the banks come calling (and we aren't even near that yet). Even then, there are better ways of handling things.
Bricks are a fine idea for a "small" renovation. But you likely won't make more than a few million at most from that. Say 30,000 bricks sold at £100 each with a labor charge of £10. That would be £2.7 million. That won't buy much of anything.
Bricks are a fine idea for a "small" renovation. But you likely won't make more than a few million at most from that. Say 30,000 bricks sold at £100 each with a labor charge of £10. That would be £2.7 million. That won't buy much of anything.
Paul #18, a minor point but one which the pro BK camp love to remind us that in line with your point 2, BK doesn't take a salary or income from the club so it's not really his livelihood and given his form for shafting a so called long term friend and business associate without whom he wouldn't even have the club (Paul Gregg) that he really gives a flying fuck beyond himself.
As far as the sell for a pound goes, did you not read about Sir Jack Hayward selling Wolves for a pound on the understanding that Steve Morgan invested £30m into it. Growing debts with no plan to reduce them and an unknown price tag which caused at least one buyer to run at due diligence sound like an attempt at profiteering which failed but hasn't caused a change of heart from BK to name his price or reduce it.
As far as the sell for a pound goes, did you not read about Sir Jack Hayward selling Wolves for a pound on the understanding that Steve Morgan invested £30m into it. Growing debts with no plan to reduce them and an unknown price tag which caused at least one buyer to run at due diligence sound like an attempt at profiteering which failed but hasn't caused a change of heart from BK to name his price or reduce it.
Kenwright won't sell for a pound because he's probably mortgaged to death for the club so unless he fancies being destitute, it's not even worth discussing this idea.
As for the bricks, not a bad idea but hardly a proper solution to any of our problems, that's not to say I have the answers.
Just a final point from an eariler post and how BK has come to own the club. Where does all this Philip Green business come from? He obviously doesn't put any money in for transfers because we've only spent about £3mil after sales since BK took over, and the club as taken on debt for losses. Is the suggestion that Green gave bill the money for the club? Any evidence for this? Pure conjecture?
As for the bricks, not a bad idea but hardly a proper solution to any of our problems, that's not to say I have the answers.
Just a final point from an eariler post and how BK has come to own the club. Where does all this Philip Green business come from? He obviously doesn't put any money in for transfers because we've only spent about £3mil after sales since BK took over, and the club as taken on debt for losses. Is the suggestion that Green gave bill the money for the club? Any evidence for this? Pure conjecture?
The damage Kenwright has done to our club, he should pay the new owners compensation. And as for bricks, I would buy a fucking ton of them just to drop on his fucking lying phoney head from the top balcony.
David 23 - I know it's not a laughing matter, but your brick plan brought a grin to my face.
Maybe if a brick fell on his head, it would knock some fucking sense into him?
Dave Whelan Kenwright ain't as Gareth Humphreys states!
Dave Whelan Kenwright ain't as Gareth Humphreys states!
Guess how much Rangers has just been sold for.
Alan #12. Of all the idiotic supersilious accusations thrown in Kenwright's direction, yours just has to be up there with the best of them. To suggest that because he was not at the Reading match means he is less of an Evertonian, is an insult to every other Evertonian who for one reason or another couldn't get to the game.
If we are going to attack the man, and lord knows there is plenty of evidence available to castigate him as the devil incarnate. Then let's keep the debate real and not cast aspersions into his Evertonian credentials because he missed one game.
If we are going to attack the man, and lord knows there is plenty of evidence available to castigate him as the devil incarnate. Then let's keep the debate real and not cast aspersions into his Evertonian credentials because he missed one game.
I'm glad I've made you seeth Paul. If I were stood in front of you I'd speak very very slowly so you could understand.
Kenwright has plunged us into massive debt. Now if you were someone with money looking to buy a club, would you look at buying a club that was in massive debt, needs a new stadium and the owner's looking to make a massive profit? It's simple. When the business is pretty fucked, why would a buyer spend money lining the pocket of the clueless twat who ran up all the debt? Answer, they wouldn't.
Now if you only had to buy the club for a pound but your money goes towards clearing the debt and building a new stadium, with some left over for team building, does that look like a better investment? Answer: Yes.
The fact that Kenwright is either not willing to sell a failing business or is looking to line his pockets shows that his interests are his own and not the club's. If you think, Paul, Kenwright is entitled to line his pockets then you've no clue what this club means to the rest of us.
Kenwright has plunged us into massive debt. Now if you were someone with money looking to buy a club, would you look at buying a club that was in massive debt, needs a new stadium and the owner's looking to make a massive profit? It's simple. When the business is pretty fucked, why would a buyer spend money lining the pocket of the clueless twat who ran up all the debt? Answer, they wouldn't.
Now if you only had to buy the club for a pound but your money goes towards clearing the debt and building a new stadium, with some left over for team building, does that look like a better investment? Answer: Yes.
The fact that Kenwright is either not willing to sell a failing business or is looking to line his pockets shows that his interests are his own and not the club's. If you think, Paul, Kenwright is entitled to line his pockets then you've no clue what this club means to the rest of us.
Shaun, he owns the club. He was seen crying crocodile tears after we beat Chelsea then misses the Reading game. Sorry but I don't think he really gives a shit.
Shaun, my perspective on BK not bothering with the Reading game is that despite having a free ride when it comes to Everton; free tickets, tax deductible travel no doubt at the club's expense he chose to stay in London for a theatrical show.
It's a fair choice as long as you don't spout the utter drivel true blue, lives breathes and sleeps Everton and other meaningless sound bites, trouble is that's all he ever does and some suckers fall for it, not implying that you do but to me any others that highlighted that he couldn't be arsed with the Reading game showed his true colours. It wasn't a meaningless midweek game, it wasn't an end of season meaningless mid table game, it was a fucking cup game after we had beaten the league champions, a game he didn't have to put his hand in his pocket for, he chose his theatre world.
It's a fair choice as long as you don't spout the utter drivel true blue, lives breathes and sleeps Everton and other meaningless sound bites, trouble is that's all he ever does and some suckers fall for it, not implying that you do but to me any others that highlighted that he couldn't be arsed with the Reading game showed his true colours. It wasn't a meaningless midweek game, it wasn't an end of season meaningless mid table game, it was a fucking cup game after we had beaten the league champions, a game he didn't have to put his hand in his pocket for, he chose his theatre world.
Blue Bill, Black Bill, BK, Billy Bullshit, Billy Liar. Wow! Don't us toffeewebbers have incredible one track minds.
I suppose it takes our minds of the real reason we had such a frustrating could have been season.
I suppose it was down to Bill that for the first half dozen or so games when it was very clear that we had the most physically unfit under prepared team in the entire division.
Was it Bill who confounded everyone with team selection and positional placings?
Bill must have ordered Moyes to use mind boggling defensive tactics in home games against potential and as it turned out, actual relegation fodder.
Our second half displays are often much better than the first. An indication perhaps that Moyes or is it Bill's pre match player motivation is crap.
We all wish there was shed loads of cash in the transfer kitty but that does not hide the fact that our season could have been so much better.
Gavin #17, a fans trust was proposed a couple of years ago with the purpose of buying GP, The People's Stadium it was called and there was even a website which is now defunct.
It all went quiet though after an initial period of enthusiasm. Anyone have any idea what's happening with the latest proposal for a Supporters Trust? that's all gone quiet now.
It all went quiet though after an initial period of enthusiasm. Anyone have any idea what's happening with the latest proposal for a Supporters Trust? that's all gone quiet now.
Dick Fearon #31, a valid point, but the flipside is - is it Moyes' fault the club has built up mammoth debt? Is Moyes responsible for squandering millions on failed ground moves and renovations? Is it Moyes who is destroying the club, never invested a single cent of his own money into the club, yet has the cheek to try and line his own pockets for doing nothing but fuck the place up? No.
There are a lot of valid arguments about Moyes' failings, but he is not the chairman and, as close as their friendship might be, he is not responsible for all the off field bullshit that has gone on for the past decade or so. The man destroying the club is BK, under a sound ownership the worst you could accuse Moyes of is being a somewhat incompetant manager.
There are a lot of valid arguments about Moyes' failings, but he is not the chairman and, as close as their friendship might be, he is not responsible for all the off field bullshit that has gone on for the past decade or so. The man destroying the club is BK, under a sound ownership the worst you could accuse Moyes of is being a somewhat incompetant manager.
Alan Clarke
You couldn't even be arsed to go to the Reading game yourself... so don't be such a hypocrite.
Dick Fearon
Are you acting for the defence or the prosecution? Your latest charge against Kenwright is more damning than any other.
Is he really paying a guy 3 million quid a year to run our club into the ground?
You couldn't even be arsed to go to the Reading game yourself... so don't be such a hypocrite.
Dick Fearon
Are you acting for the defence or the prosecution? Your latest charge against Kenwright is more damning than any other.
Is he really paying a guy 3 million quid a year to run our club into the ground?
Alan and Dave #s 33, 34, I was merely stating that this season went down the plug hole due to faults attributable to Moyes not Kenwright. The criticism of BK is repetitive and boring in the extreme. Stating a few undeniable truths about why our season of high hopes arrived at such an ignominous end is almost like a declaration of war to the anti-BK mob.
Before another shot is aimed across my bows I wave the white flag of surrender. I have been ground down and not in any mood to swim against the paranoic sunami that denies balanced debate about the problems facing our club.
Now people are asking BK to sell for a £1 when he doesn?t even own the club. Please understand he owns just 28% so that means 72% is owned by other people who have collectively agreed (less minor shareholders) to sell the club as a block share, yes he has clout but the deal is a collective one for every major shareholder and asking them to sell for a £1 is just stupid unless we are in administration and we are far from that. Please get real or we lose the truth and hearsay starts becoming fact. COYB
Gavin #30 I do understand where you are coming from. But despite BK's shortcomings one thing that he cannot be accused of is not being an Evertonian. Alan accuses him of crying crocodile tears when we beat Chelsea in the cup. Sorry I don't see it that way. What I saw was a man just as delighted as those 6000 in the cheap seats (Sorry seats are never cheap at Chelsea).
If he chooses to miss the odd game whether that be a cup game or a pre season friendly to do other things outside of football, then that is his choice. Nobody has the right to question him over his no show at the Reading game whether he pays for his tickets or not.
Let's tackle the real issues here and leave this nonsense behind.
Like it or not, Bill Kenwright earns his living as a theatre impressario. The night of the Reading game he was opening a new show.
He had to be there.
If there is anybody on this site who has never been in a position where their job and keeping a roof over their head has prevented attendance at a match then they are very, very fortunate.
As for him not putting any of his own money into the club, it is well known that he remortgaged his house to buy up Johnson's stake. Even his missus mentioned that fact a while ago on GMTV! That is a very risky thing to do and his only motivation in doing so would be because he was an Evertonian. No detached 'businessman' would dream of doing that for no financial reward to himself.
If I hear the allegation once more about the subsidised travel to and from the game that he enjoys (if he does, where's the evidence) while ignoring the fact that he doesn't take a salary from the club I will not be responsible for the consequent verbal violence.
Criticize BK for excelling at his talent for exaggeration and I will agree with you.
Criticize BK for not being as rich as we would like him to be and I will agree that, yes, it's a pity he's no Abramovich.
Tell us he is not the best chairman of a football club who has ever lived and I must concur.
But tell me he is not a real Evertonian and doesn't give a fuck and I will call you an idiot and a liar. All those years ago when we were just a few minutes away from going down, I was close enough to Bill Kenwright to see how pallid and distressed he was. When we were saved, I remember him raising his arms to the sky and thanking the gods. If nothing else he is an Evertonian.
What ever else he is or he is not....he is an Evertonian and I do wonder how it is that posters have been censured in the past for disclaiming other's Evertonian credentials. Yet it seems ok to doubt those of Bill Kenwright and to suggest his pleasure at defeating Chelsea was feigned and insincere??
Doesn't make sense to me.
He had to be there.
If there is anybody on this site who has never been in a position where their job and keeping a roof over their head has prevented attendance at a match then they are very, very fortunate.
As for him not putting any of his own money into the club, it is well known that he remortgaged his house to buy up Johnson's stake. Even his missus mentioned that fact a while ago on GMTV! That is a very risky thing to do and his only motivation in doing so would be because he was an Evertonian. No detached 'businessman' would dream of doing that for no financial reward to himself.
If I hear the allegation once more about the subsidised travel to and from the game that he enjoys (if he does, where's the evidence) while ignoring the fact that he doesn't take a salary from the club I will not be responsible for the consequent verbal violence.
Criticize BK for excelling at his talent for exaggeration and I will agree with you.
Criticize BK for not being as rich as we would like him to be and I will agree that, yes, it's a pity he's no Abramovich.
Tell us he is not the best chairman of a football club who has ever lived and I must concur.
But tell me he is not a real Evertonian and doesn't give a fuck and I will call you an idiot and a liar. All those years ago when we were just a few minutes away from going down, I was close enough to Bill Kenwright to see how pallid and distressed he was. When we were saved, I remember him raising his arms to the sky and thanking the gods. If nothing else he is an Evertonian.
What ever else he is or he is not....he is an Evertonian and I do wonder how it is that posters have been censured in the past for disclaiming other's Evertonian credentials. Yet it seems ok to doubt those of Bill Kenwright and to suggest his pleasure at defeating Chelsea was feigned and insincere??
Doesn't make sense to me.
Sunderland sold bricks at £35 a pop when they built the Stadium of Light, the first area sold out and they had to develop another section. it looks pretty good too.
Dave R
Good post. It highlights a common and inevitable feature on TW. Posts lead by the heart or emotions can sometimes ignore facts, whereas some prefer to be more critical or precise in their thinking.
I agree with your analysis of BK and have never doubted his blue credentials (critisising him for missing a game is just silly) but would also add, fundamentally, that there appears little evidence of him actively seeking a replacement owner for the club, nor has he been clear about whether he is prepared to give up control should an alternative option present itself. It strikes me that he's looking for a funder rather than a new owner.
Good post. It highlights a common and inevitable feature on TW. Posts lead by the heart or emotions can sometimes ignore facts, whereas some prefer to be more critical or precise in their thinking.
I agree with your analysis of BK and have never doubted his blue credentials (critisising him for missing a game is just silly) but would also add, fundamentally, that there appears little evidence of him actively seeking a replacement owner for the club, nor has he been clear about whether he is prepared to give up control should an alternative option present itself. It strikes me that he's looking for a funder rather than a new owner.
Sean,
I'm not sure you're presumption that someone would buy us for £1 is correct. Effectively, they would be buying a lot of debt, needing to invest a lot more and with very little chance of making any profit from it.
I really don't think it is fair to blame BK for his lack of deep pockets and/or the reluctance of investors to come out of the woodwork.
I'm not sure you're presumption that someone would buy us for £1 is correct. Effectively, they would be buying a lot of debt, needing to invest a lot more and with very little chance of making any profit from it.
I really don't think it is fair to blame BK for his lack of deep pockets and/or the reluctance of investors to come out of the woodwork.
Dave R, his house was worth £1m at the time, he borrowed the money from Anita Gregg via his long standing friend Paul Gregg, if you are going to post at least add that poignant part to the "he mortgaged his house" fairy tale.
Dave, #37
I'm certainly no fan of Bill Kenwright yet I have to agree with the majority of what you have said here; personal attacks on BK, a fellow blue, are unwarranted.
However, you really need to have a word with yourself regarding the contents of paragraph three. Like Gavin has said, mortgaging his house for Everton? I don't think so; Robert Elstone, who in my experience will give you a straight answer to a straight question, confirmed that not one of the directors had invested a penny into Everton Football Club, not one single penny. Notwithstanding the fact that property prices in London are considerably higher than in Liverpool you're not suggesting that BK actually raised his £7.5m stake against his house are you? He borrowed the money, for what is simply a personal investment, from Anita Gregg, she was repaid from money obtained from a source I think we can all guess.
BK shouldn't be castigated for being an Evertonian and genuinely, as a fan, wanting Everton to succeed; what he should he tackled on is his failures and standing by whilst the club was being sold down the river in what was little more than a grubby property scam; for this he should have been chased out of the boardroom years ago.
I'm certainly no fan of Bill Kenwright yet I have to agree with the majority of what you have said here; personal attacks on BK, a fellow blue, are unwarranted.
However, you really need to have a word with yourself regarding the contents of paragraph three. Like Gavin has said, mortgaging his house for Everton? I don't think so; Robert Elstone, who in my experience will give you a straight answer to a straight question, confirmed that not one of the directors had invested a penny into Everton Football Club, not one single penny. Notwithstanding the fact that property prices in London are considerably higher than in Liverpool you're not suggesting that BK actually raised his £7.5m stake against his house are you? He borrowed the money, for what is simply a personal investment, from Anita Gregg, she was repaid from money obtained from a source I think we can all guess.
BK shouldn't be castigated for being an Evertonian and genuinely, as a fan, wanting Everton to succeed; what he should he tackled on is his failures and standing by whilst the club was being sold down the river in what was little more than a grubby property scam; for this he should have been chased out of the boardroom years ago.
Dave Roberts. I see you've come up with the highly original 'BK is an Evertonian' line.
Big wow.
So fucking what? I'm an Evertonian but that's not the only credential you need to run this club now is it?
Big wow.
So fucking what? I'm an Evertonian but that's not the only credential you need to run this club now is it?
85% of Glasgow Rangers was sold on the 6 May 2011 for one pound.
How much did the other 15% go for?
Alan Clarke has clearly overstepped the mark with his "should not be classed as an Evertonian" comment ? which has been rightly rounded upon by many, including some of Kenwright's biggest critics.
There is no excuse for going down the very slippery 'Everton Credentials' path. Questioning the motivations and commitment of those involved is fraught with danger. Unfortunately in these arguments, "doing the best for the club" ? a phrase used liberally by Kenwright and his cohorts ? muddies the waters aplenty.
Bottom Line is Evertonians have always ? and no doubt will always ? clash over the way the club is run. But it should never be an excuse for throwing around this 'credentials' crap.
There is no excuse for going down the very slippery 'Everton Credentials' path. Questioning the motivations and commitment of those involved is fraught with danger. Unfortunately in these arguments, "doing the best for the club" ? a phrase used liberally by Kenwright and his cohorts ? muddies the waters aplenty.
Bottom Line is Evertonians have always ? and no doubt will always ? clash over the way the club is run. But it should never be an excuse for throwing around this 'credentials' crap.
I never suggested, or at least I didn't mean to suggest, that BK gathered ALL the cash he needed by mortgaging his house. But he did remortgage his house towards gleaning the cash he needed......or is his missus exaggerating too?
To Colin Fitzpatrick et al...err....I do mention his failures actually, quite specifically, so I don't know what you are talking about. The point I was making was that his failures as Chairman do not entitle us to impugn his 'credentials' as an Evertonian which was the point of my post.
Assertive statements concerning crocodile tears, subsidised travel costs and free tickets are not evidenced and demonstrate only that all is fair game when some of us have identified who our 'culprit' is.
To Colin Fitzpatrick et al...err....I do mention his failures actually, quite specifically, so I don't know what you are talking about. The point I was making was that his failures as Chairman do not entitle us to impugn his 'credentials' as an Evertonian which was the point of my post.
Assertive statements concerning crocodile tears, subsidised travel costs and free tickets are not evidenced and demonstrate only that all is fair game when some of us have identified who our 'culprit' is.
It doesn't matter what the other 15% went for since 85% gives control.
Johnny, the new buyer of Rangers paid off a considerable amount of debt, something in the region of £20 million. The idea of the new owner is not to hang about and invest in the club but to re=sell at a reasonable profit.
I think everybody is going off at tangents.
I think Sean's original point was that, if Kenwright was such an Evertonian as he claims to be, he would be more reasonable in generating a sale which would allow much needed funds to be introduced to the club unlike his alleged "deal" with Earl and Green to rip the heart out of EFC via a moneymaking property scam.
One of the other positive suggestions Sean made was to sell naming rights on bricks which is not new but certainly a positive.
As regards the "I remortgaged my house to rescue my beloved club" line, I think that was totally disproven years ago and it was insinuated that the coincidence between paying Johnson £20 million and the club's debts rising by £20 million meant the club had effectively paid for Kenwright's shares.
Now before Kenwright's luvvies go on the attack, I am just stating the circumstances ? not claiming it is true but do you still believe in Father Xmas because how else do you get £20 million of shareholding when you're only worth £1 million???
I think Sean's original point was that, if Kenwright was such an Evertonian as he claims to be, he would be more reasonable in generating a sale which would allow much needed funds to be introduced to the club unlike his alleged "deal" with Earl and Green to rip the heart out of EFC via a moneymaking property scam.
One of the other positive suggestions Sean made was to sell naming rights on bricks which is not new but certainly a positive.
As regards the "I remortgaged my house to rescue my beloved club" line, I think that was totally disproven years ago and it was insinuated that the coincidence between paying Johnson £20 million and the club's debts rising by £20 million meant the club had effectively paid for Kenwright's shares.
Now before Kenwright's luvvies go on the attack, I am just stating the circumstances ? not claiming it is true but do you still believe in Father Xmas because how else do you get £20 million of shareholding when you're only worth £1 million???
Dave #49
Apologies, I obviously haven't explained myself well. You've stated,
"As for him not putting any of his own money into the club, it is well known that he re-mortgaged his house to buy up Johnson's stake. Even his missus mentioned that fact a while ago on GMTV! That is a very risky thing to do and his only motivation in doing so would be because he was an Evertonian."
You're under the illusion that this is an investment in Everton, that he has put money into the club; once again, it isn't, he hasn't invested a single penny to date, this is simply a personal investment from which Everton has derived no benefit and the source of which, in my opinion, he is completely entitled to declare as private UNLESS it is Philip Green . This is because if it is Philip Green, having paid for all of the shares registered in the name of BCR sports, would appear to have influence over 49% of the clubs shares and be playing the role of an undeclared shadow director in influencing the policy of the club and therefore contrary to the rules governing the premiership.
I've mentioned his failures as it is these that he should be remembered for, as they are real, and not some mythical benevolent philanthropist, for Everton, which he certainly is not.
Apologies, I obviously haven't explained myself well. You've stated,
"As for him not putting any of his own money into the club, it is well known that he re-mortgaged his house to buy up Johnson's stake. Even his missus mentioned that fact a while ago on GMTV! That is a very risky thing to do and his only motivation in doing so would be because he was an Evertonian."
You're under the illusion that this is an investment in Everton, that he has put money into the club; once again, it isn't, he hasn't invested a single penny to date, this is simply a personal investment from which Everton has derived no benefit and the source of which, in my opinion, he is completely entitled to declare as private UNLESS it is Philip Green . This is because if it is Philip Green, having paid for all of the shares registered in the name of BCR sports, would appear to have influence over 49% of the clubs shares and be playing the role of an undeclared shadow director in influencing the policy of the club and therefore contrary to the rules governing the premiership.
I've mentioned his failures as it is these that he should be remembered for, as they are real, and not some mythical benevolent philanthropist, for Everton, which he certainly is not.
Talk about grabbing a straws! Would anyone who has posted on here sell a single asset they own for less than its value on the basis of an emotional impulse? You might but your missus would soon put you straight!!
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.
© ToffeeWeb
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
1 Posted 12/05/2011 at 14:53:37
Report abuse
I'd buy a brick if I trusted the money would go to revamping Goodison (or building a great new one on a good location), but as of now, we are not allowed to do shit at Goodison if I understand the latest drama correctly.