The Mail Bag
Should we be worried?
Comments (107)
I've just seen the rumour that Gerrard Houllier is about to be leaving Aston Villa. With that post vacant it can't be too long before the rumours linking David Moyes with Villa start re-emerging.
Given the other story (all right then, rumour) that Moyes has been told he has to sell before he can buy, does anyone think he might be swayed by the chance to have some money to spend? Will Kenwright's continued inability to generate some meaningful investment finally get to Davey?
Rob Williamson, Posted 31/05/2011 at 15:55:32
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Davey has already stated categorically that he is not interested in the Villa job. Are you now making him out to be Davey Liar?
Wrong site to ask if people would be worried. The majority on here want him gone.
James, at least he would have money to spend if he did go.........and do you know what? I wouldn't blame him
James, at least he would have money to spend if he did go.........and do you know what? I wouldn't blame him
DM is a man of integrity who I believe has said that he isn't interested in the Villa job so I will take him at his word. Just something else to throw into the debate though: Who has managed to do quite a lot with very little for the last 3 years albeit at lower level
................Dave Jones.
................Dave Jones.
If he's going to go, please make it now whilst Allardyce is unavailable !
As others have said it's a "no way jose" to the villa according to the latest papal bull from Goodison but he'll deffo get asked.
Whether it's a source of worry....well.....who can say?
Whether it's a source of worry....well.....who can say?
Tony, I don't think you should speak for "the majority" ? there really is no such thing, at least no reliable way of establishing what it thinks, and anyway it's meaningless.
We don't do polls anymore (A question for Lyndon?) but even if we did, there is always some bias in such responses. Can't you just speak for yourself without invoking this "majority"?
We don't do polls anymore (A question for Lyndon?) but even if we did, there is always some bias in such responses. Can't you just speak for yourself without invoking this "majority"?
I'm sure Villa would like him, but what could they offer him? Money to spend... but sell first? Otherwise, not a lot, Davey boy has history here and is virtually unsackable; alright, it must piss him off not having the money even the likes of Stoke have... but Villa need more than they have just to get to where we are.
I think we're safe where Villa are concerned but, if Harry Boy goes to Chelski, Spurs might be a worry.
Iain, to be honest I think Spurs will throw a load of money at a big European name. However if that fails badly as with Ramos, then they may come calling
Michael, following the ManUre game, I'm now fine with sweeping comments with absolutely no evidence to back them up. Did you know Messi is a boyhood blue?
Er, don't think he will be going. I'd be interested to see IF he got offered the job at Manure whether he'd take it or not, but Villa just won't happen. They might have some money to spend, but I really do think (for whatever reason) Moyes is too attached to this club and HIS squad to give up on that and start again at a smaller club.
Plus he said he won't go to Villa, so that's that then.
Plus he said he won't go to Villa, so that's that then.
Villa? Never happen. Why? 2 words; Randy Lerner is a horseshit owner.
Moyes has a great wage and a board who will never sack him why would he leave? Like others have said he has already laughed it off.
He doesn't have to sell his best players here and as far as i can see it none of them have been threatening to leave either.
On the other hand all of Villas good players want out. Not really a tough call.
His threats at the board about giving him cash in my opinion are not real. Anyway he has stated many times that he thinks we have a wonderful board and the only thing they need to do is give him more cash.
But as far as i see it he will offload a few get cash for them and pump it into free transfers or young wannabes from lower leagues as always.
The fear i'd have is if he did ever leave who could we afford to replace him? We would need him to walk away so we wouldn't have to pay compensation for sacking etc... but again our board could not afford anyone decent.
It's catch 22 now.
He doesn't have to sell his best players here and as far as i can see it none of them have been threatening to leave either.
On the other hand all of Villas good players want out. Not really a tough call.
His threats at the board about giving him cash in my opinion are not real. Anyway he has stated many times that he thinks we have a wonderful board and the only thing they need to do is give him more cash.
But as far as i see it he will offload a few get cash for them and pump it into free transfers or young wannabes from lower leagues as always.
The fear i'd have is if he did ever leave who could we afford to replace him? We would need him to walk away so we wouldn't have to pay compensation for sacking etc... but again our board could not afford anyone decent.
It's catch 22 now.
Oh please Michael. Your attempts to constantly try to say Toffeeweb isn't overwhelmingly or at least majority against Moyes holds as much sway as Fox News' claim to be "fair and balanced".
You, and the majority on here have time and time again shown your distaste for Moyes. It's just the truth and you should accept it and stop throwing those comments out any time someone points it out.
James #12 what does that make Billy Bullshitter?
Didn't Martin O'Neill leave Villa because he didn't have any money to spend, or because the money from outgoing transfers wouldn't be his to spend?
Just listening to talksport here and they are convinced that if Moyes wants to get back into the Champions League and have success then he should leave for Villa.
For the record, I am one who does not want Moyes to leave us, who else could keep us 7th in the league with the injuries we have every year?
For the record, I am one who does not want Moyes to leave us, who else could keep us 7th in the league with the injuries we have every year?
Was chatting to a Villa fan the other day who insists that O'Neill left Villa because he was told to reduce the wage bill, which in the end means selling players. I was shocked to hear that that lump Heskey is on £85k per week.
They'll be selling that diving cheat Young as well this summer. I doubt if that is the sort of scenario that would appeal to DM, so no, we should not be worried.
Worried? not a bit of it ? I have my fingers and toes crossed he goes.
As he has 2 years left on his deal, it also means Everton will get a nice wedge in compensation plus the man I would want as his replacement is available.
Step forward Steve McClaren... wait! What's that I hear? The sound of a hundred keyboards being bashed with the phrase "Be careful what you wish for..."
As he has 2 years left on his deal, it also means Everton will get a nice wedge in compensation plus the man I would want as his replacement is available.
Step forward Steve McClaren... wait! What's that I hear? The sound of a hundred keyboards being bashed with the phrase "Be careful what you wish for..."
Tony (10) that's funny because I heard that Anichebe is a boyhood Barca fan. Now that would make a lovely swap...
On a more relevant point, really couldn't see Moyes going to Villa. He's denied it several times already, just seems to be the usual made-up tabloid rubbish.
On a more relevant point, really couldn't see Moyes going to Villa. He's denied it several times already, just seems to be the usual made-up tabloid rubbish.
Gavin - (15) Not as bad as Lerner. He owns the NFL's Cleveland Browns in a league that has equal, and massive, parts of the financial pie. And his team routinely sucks.
I'm definitely for Moyes staying. I get the feeling if you want Moyes out, you'll be more vocal about it than those who want him to stay because it's change from status quo. It's fruitless arguing about it since everyone's entitled to their own opinion. The more pressing need is money from the board.
David Barks, I disagree. There are a few on this site who can see no wrong in anything Moyes does. Also. there are a few who can see no good in him. It seems to me, however that most are like typical supporters ie, they criticise when things are wrong and praise when things are good. What's wrong with that?
James Flynn ? All I know is that Learner has always made funds available for Villa players. Over £26 million on 2 players in the January transfer window alone. Maybe Moyes could work with some kind of budget? ... but we will never know if he stays at Everton.
I'm in two minds really: I just want Kenwright out I suppose. As for the post the other day biging up Dave Jones... Give me Fucking Strengh!
Should we be worried? Seems to me like you are looking for something to worry about. There is nothing that can be done about any of the shitty/crooked goings on at our club, so why worry?
If Moyes goes, then he goes, same with Baines/Rodwell et al. They should be staying to strengthen the club but may well be forced out or leave for the big buck only to warm the bench at city or Chelsea, etc. At the end of the day it's just one more Everton flavour shit sandwich of which we all have to take a bite.
Does it really matter as we cannot compete in an immorally rich league anyway... I'm past caring... Does it show?
David, if you could climb down off that high horse for a moment... Have you not noticed when there is a post in any way critical of Moyes, that there are a myriad of counter opinions and counter-counter opinions (and so on) posted?
Have you also not noticed that, when there is a post in any way supportive of Moyes, there are a myriad of counter opinions and counter-counter opinions (and so on) posted?
I'm not saying it's "balanced" but what I am saying is that it should not be taken as indicative of a majority, and it is certainly not "overwhelming" as you claim. I think you will find that people generally respond when sufficiently roused by the opposing viewpoint.
Forget this garbage about balance. It's only misguided readers like you who think such a forum could or should ever achieve "balance" or that the site itself must somehow be "neutral" ? just as I know such a forum does not reflect a "majority" or a "minority" viewpoint ? it represents diversity.
Evertonians have a diverse range of opinions on most things to do with the club. All I'm asking is for people to acknowledge that and stop using this "majority" in your discussions of your own personal viewpoints.
Have you also not noticed that, when there is a post in any way supportive of Moyes, there are a myriad of counter opinions and counter-counter opinions (and so on) posted?
I'm not saying it's "balanced" but what I am saying is that it should not be taken as indicative of a majority, and it is certainly not "overwhelming" as you claim. I think you will find that people generally respond when sufficiently roused by the opposing viewpoint.
Forget this garbage about balance. It's only misguided readers like you who think such a forum could or should ever achieve "balance" or that the site itself must somehow be "neutral" ? just as I know such a forum does not reflect a "majority" or a "minority" viewpoint ? it represents diversity.
Evertonians have a diverse range of opinions on most things to do with the club. All I'm asking is for people to acknowledge that and stop using this "majority" in your discussions of your own personal viewpoints.
Michael (26) - Well said.
Regarding "Evertonians have a diverse range of opinions on most things to do with the club.", I would add opined with passion, intelligence, often hilarity, and (famously and best) wit. Rare on discussion boards.
Regarding "Evertonians have a diverse range of opinions on most things to do with the club.", I would add opined with passion, intelligence, often hilarity, and (famously and best) wit. Rare on discussion boards.
I don't think the prospect is particularly worrying, or exciting - or even probable. Now changes in the Boardroom - that could be exciting!
To be honest, who cares if he goes? I think he has done an okay job these last two seasons, but we should've done better tactically in games and should've beaten some piss poor sides at home.
If he goes then surely the Kenwright lovers will see the club is going nowhere with him running it. Being linked with bloody players such as Bothroyd, Mckail-Smith and Klose who, let's face it, was good but he must be what 35 now???
If he goes to Villa, which I honestly think he will, he would be facing a squad revolt there with all thier best players wanting to leave. He would be given say £40mill... two or three Bilys and a few Krøldrups and Beatties later with the persistent negative tactics, it won't be long before the Villain fans start wanting him out too.
In an ideal world, Kenwright to go with an ambitious businessman with a plan to come in followed by an ambitious fresh new manager with funds to spend and our ageing squad being dismantled. COYB!!
If he goes then surely the Kenwright lovers will see the club is going nowhere with him running it. Being linked with bloody players such as Bothroyd, Mckail-Smith and Klose who, let's face it, was good but he must be what 35 now???
If he goes to Villa, which I honestly think he will, he would be facing a squad revolt there with all thier best players wanting to leave. He would be given say £40mill... two or three Bilys and a few Krøldrups and Beatties later with the persistent negative tactics, it won't be long before the Villain fans start wanting him out too.
In an ideal world, Kenwright to go with an ambitious businessman with a plan to come in followed by an ambitious fresh new manager with funds to spend and our ageing squad being dismantled. COYB!!
Why would he leave. He is on a good wedge, knows that finishing in mid table is going to thrill his paymaster. He has a cast iron excuse if he does not finish in 6/7/8 th lack of finance etc etc. He can also get away with a terrible cup record.
He is bombproof and will remain until the right job for him comes up. Scotland job in a few years? or Kenwright goes?
He is bombproof and will remain until the right job for him comes up. Scotland job in a few years? or Kenwright goes?
Not worried in the least because there seems to be strong rumour that the fat ex-red Spanish waiter is waiting in the wings if the fat ex-red heart victim retires.
Result all round then as Villa sell off English players for French/Spanish mercenaries.
No, I'm far more concerned about the fact that the tax dodging cockney bastard Redknapp may go to Chelski, leaving a nice little job at Spurs open for an ambitious, experienced manager.
Like most people here I think Moyes has done a good job at some things, a reasonable job at others, and poor job at some.
Some great bargain buys that turned out to be internationals. Gotta give credit there. Pretty strong defense and good team spirit. Some good league positions and almost cups.
Did a reasonable job getting us to play some joined-up football with limited funds to buy top-drawer payers.
Poor job at some team selections, tactics and substitutions. Missed a couple of cup winning opportunities with fearful, negative play. And how he could play Anichebe ahead of me, I don't know.
But I'm not a hater. Can't think of anyone available and better right now. Unless we get really lucky, can't see a replacement that will give us what we want: an exciting, winning side.
We love Everton, but not everyone sees through blue-tinted glasses. She's not a supermodel. But neither am I a superman.
Some great bargain buys that turned out to be internationals. Gotta give credit there. Pretty strong defense and good team spirit. Some good league positions and almost cups.
Did a reasonable job getting us to play some joined-up football with limited funds to buy top-drawer payers.
Poor job at some team selections, tactics and substitutions. Missed a couple of cup winning opportunities with fearful, negative play. And how he could play Anichebe ahead of me, I don't know.
But I'm not a hater. Can't think of anyone available and better right now. Unless we get really lucky, can't see a replacement that will give us what we want: an exciting, winning side.
We love Everton, but not everyone sees through blue-tinted glasses. She's not a supermodel. But neither am I a superman.
I wouldn't worry too much ... not unless you really wanted Bob Bradley for Everton.
If he did leave what would The Moyes nut-huggers do with themselves ?
They might have to cope with a manager that could win a trophy and plays attractive football.
But its all nonsense, Moyes is going to stay in his cushy little job, with his cushy paypacket from his cushy Chairman, winning nothing, blaming everybody else while hearing from The Majority of fans that he's just grrreat !
Keep it up Davey, its been exciting. Another 9 years of the same, please.
They might have to cope with a manager that could win a trophy and plays attractive football.
But its all nonsense, Moyes is going to stay in his cushy little job, with his cushy paypacket from his cushy Chairman, winning nothing, blaming everybody else while hearing from The Majority of fans that he's just grrreat !
Keep it up Davey, its been exciting. Another 9 years of the same, please.
Tommy, they might, or they might have to see their beloved club return to the days of fighting for survival every season, or even worse actually get relegated.
More chance of him going to Aintree Villa.
That's the defeatist spirit Steve, keep it safe, you have alot in common with Moyes.
Steve, don't you know that it thinking like that is the reason we are skint and our forwards couldn't score in a brothel. You, personally are the reason we are where we are...etc etc blah blah
Tommy,
Whether people are Moyes 'Nut huggers' as you have so crudely put or not. The overwhelming evidence is that Moyes has done above and beyond most manager in the league with an average squad and a pitful budget over the years.
Attractive football you say other than Arsenal there are not too many other teams who play it. Chelsea won their leagues with boring stuff and Man Utd don't exactly light up the skills department.
I think most realistic people are concerned with is if he leaves who can we get? We are skint and do not have any spending power to bring in someone decent. Even if we did that person would have to sell to buy.
Lets face it at present whehter we like moyes or not we are stuck with him. Now i do not 'love' moyes and i think he is one o fthe most frustating men in football but if it means we starve of relegation for another while i have it. He has punched above his weight most of the seasons he has been in charge so at least give him credit where its due.
Oh wait you must want walter smith back and the relegation days again.
We all want better why wouldn't we? In these times though its better to be realistic and not some smart arse insulting other everton fans
Whether people are Moyes 'Nut huggers' as you have so crudely put or not. The overwhelming evidence is that Moyes has done above and beyond most manager in the league with an average squad and a pitful budget over the years.
Attractive football you say other than Arsenal there are not too many other teams who play it. Chelsea won their leagues with boring stuff and Man Utd don't exactly light up the skills department.
I think most realistic people are concerned with is if he leaves who can we get? We are skint and do not have any spending power to bring in someone decent. Even if we did that person would have to sell to buy.
Lets face it at present whehter we like moyes or not we are stuck with him. Now i do not 'love' moyes and i think he is one o fthe most frustating men in football but if it means we starve of relegation for another while i have it. He has punched above his weight most of the seasons he has been in charge so at least give him credit where its due.
Oh wait you must want walter smith back and the relegation days again.
We all want better why wouldn't we? In these times though its better to be realistic and not some smart arse insulting other everton fans
Would appear Mark Hughes favourite to take the Villa job.His current contract with Fulham expires today.
Comparisons with Chelsea are very interesting. I have always thought Chelsea's teams were set up in a very similar way to Moyes' Everton. Basically 4-5-1 or 4-4-2 occasionally when the game required it. This was especially true under Mourinho. The difference was that because of their money, Chelsea were able to attract a better standard of player in strategic positions, ie: Drogba instead of Yakubu or Essien instead of Carsley etc. Nevertheless, Chelsea won lots of trophies playing a game that was tactically very similar to Moyes' Everton and not always pretty to watch.
The point I'm making is that criticism of Moyes' negativity in terms of attitude to the game and planning for games would have to be aimed at Mourinho too....the only difference being it probably wouldn't end in criticism if there were several trophies in the cupboard!
It would have been interesting to see if Moyes could have won those trophies for Everton, playing a very similar style to Chelsea if he had had access to the cash to make the style work as effectively as it did at Chelsea. And if he had had that benefit would he now be the 'tactical genius' that Mourinho is considered to be?!
The point I'm making is that criticism of Moyes' negativity in terms of attitude to the game and planning for games would have to be aimed at Mourinho too....the only difference being it probably wouldn't end in criticism if there were several trophies in the cupboard!
It would have been interesting to see if Moyes could have won those trophies for Everton, playing a very similar style to Chelsea if he had had access to the cash to make the style work as effectively as it did at Chelsea. And if he had had that benefit would he now be the 'tactical genius' that Mourinho is considered to be?!
The following comments in the Post seem equivocal to me, despite the report's own take being "laugh off comments on Villa gjob":
Moyes has already batted away speculation linking him with the Villa Park post ? laughing off internet rumours and saying: ?As far as I know I?m here and I?m the manager.
?I want to have a club, though, where I can give the supporters something, I really do.
?I want a good fresh challenge when we come back next summer and hopefully that will be the case.?
If Moyes got just £5 million from the board for new players, I'd be amazed (never mind the wild dream of £15m).
Thinking of the posts yesterday about the age of the squad, It got me thinking that Moyes would want maybe three more years at Everton and the older players would be the nucleus of his team for the remainder. But those comments make me think even Villa now could interest him.
Moyes has already batted away speculation linking him with the Villa Park post ? laughing off internet rumours and saying: ?As far as I know I?m here and I?m the manager.
?I want to have a club, though, where I can give the supporters something, I really do.
?I want a good fresh challenge when we come back next summer and hopefully that will be the case.?
If Moyes got just £5 million from the board for new players, I'd be amazed (never mind the wild dream of £15m).
Thinking of the posts yesterday about the age of the squad, It got me thinking that Moyes would want maybe three more years at Everton and the older players would be the nucleus of his team for the remainder. But those comments make me think even Villa now could interest him.
Who's Will Kenwright?
Ok heres my ten pence.
Get the Dour defensive fucker out.....NOW.
I would also like to see Steve McClaren get the job ...........just to counteract the pople who keep shouting if not Moyes then who.
After 10 yrs give some other fucker ago.
Get the Dour defensive fucker out.....NOW.
I would also like to see Steve McClaren get the job ...........just to counteract the pople who keep shouting if not Moyes then who.
After 10 yrs give some other fucker ago.
Two bits of GREAT news today....
First... Big Sam has gone to West Ham, so even if Moyes goes we won't have to suffer his dire brand of footy.
Secondly.. Michael Owen has just signed an extension at Manure, so if Moyes stays he won't be able to sign him.
Yessssss !
First... Big Sam has gone to West Ham, so even if Moyes goes we won't have to suffer his dire brand of footy.
Secondly.. Michael Owen has just signed an extension at Manure, so if Moyes stays he won't be able to sign him.
Yessssss !
Also funny how Chelsea who need a manager, never look twice at our superb, world class, manager of the year.
So as for Man U coming to knock on Moyes door dont make me laugh.
Man U and Chelsea are facing teams such as "barcelona" in the champions league so do you think they will see Mr dour one up front as the answer.
So as for Man U coming to knock on Moyes door dont make me laugh.
Man U and Chelsea are facing teams such as "barcelona" in the champions league so do you think they will see Mr dour one up front as the answer.
I have not read many of the fans comments, but reading the press, Moyes is not interested in the Villa job and until there has been a official approach, and he comes out on TV to say he is not interested, then it's all just pie in the sky.
I am sure all the Fulham fans are coming out on their websites this morning having heard the remarks made on radio this morning.that Mark Hughes is favourite for the job.
Just speculation by TalkShite, and Sky.
That's the defeatist spirit, Steve, keep it safe, you have a lot in common with Moyes.
He heard you the first time Tommy and I see you are trying to resurrect the daft nut hugger quote again.
Daniel is this the same McClaren that was sacked from his last job with a win ratio of less than 24%.....get in there, where do I sign?
Man Ure and Chelski often only play one up front, it's just that they have a midfield who can actually assist teh forward and hold the ball up too.
Daniel is this the same McClaren that was sacked from his last job with a win ratio of less than 24%.....get in there, where do I sign?
Man Ure and Chelski often only play one up front, it's just that they have a midfield who can actually assist teh forward and hold the ball up too.
McClaren's last job was Wolfsburg he inherited a squad with a lot of in fighting and problems. McClaren was bought in to sort it out.
McClaren has won more in his career than Moyes, he has more experience of foreign football than Moyes and has international football experience.
He is more than capable of replacing Moyes who has won FUCK ALL.
McClaren has won more in his career than Moyes, he has more experience of foreign football than Moyes and has international football experience.
He is more than capable of replacing Moyes who has won FUCK ALL.
Dave #41, the 4-5-1 formation is where similarity dropped between Everton and Chelsea and Mourinho. Mourinho is known for making game changing tactical substitutions and DM isn't, successive Chelsea managers have also been know to make subs to change games, one major fault with Moyes has been his painfully slow response to making subs and more often than not they are like for like rather than changing formation or strategy, I despair sometimes to see players stood on the touchline for an eternity reading scrappy bits of paper before joining too.
Steve McClaren over Moyes? Cmon!! Get a grip
What have foreign and international football got to do with managing an English team in an English league?
I see you are making excuses for McClaren, watch out you may get called a McClaren nut hugger shortly because anything like that said about Moyes and you are an apolgist etc etc
I see you are making excuses for McClaren, watch out you may get called a McClaren nut hugger shortly because anything like that said about Moyes and you are an apolgist etc etc
I agree in part Gavin, because Mourinho can make a game changing substitution from the bench because he can call on a great player. Moyes must turn around look at his bench and cringe sometimes.
No excuses for Moyes because our subs do seem to take an extraordinary amount of time to get on, this season alone how many goals have we conceeded whilst the sub is on the side line?
No excuses for Moyes because our subs do seem to take an extraordinary amount of time to get on, this season alone how many goals have we conceeded whilst the sub is on the side line?
Ben (52). If aliens arrived tomorrow, studied the records of Moyes and McClaren, then read your post, they would be mightily confused.
Tommy,
Defeatist attitude? How can you say that about any poster. It's called realism.
Get a grip we are broke and Kenwright won't sell anytime soon or help get investors.
Moyes won't walk away from a lucrative salary either.
Those are facts. Facts myself and others have reiterated and commented on.
Please explain how our realistic look at Everton's impossible situation is defeatist?
As for Moyes's defeatist attitude, what? I never get people who say that. I am not his biggest fan and his decision-making is questionable sometimes but defeatist? Not a chance. He's more of a conservative type of manager who lacks an edge to make the right sub or tactical decision but that does not make him defeatist.
Love or hate Moyes, there's nothing we can do to get rid of him ? simple as that.
Defeatist attitude? How can you say that about any poster. It's called realism.
Get a grip we are broke and Kenwright won't sell anytime soon or help get investors.
Moyes won't walk away from a lucrative salary either.
Those are facts. Facts myself and others have reiterated and commented on.
Please explain how our realistic look at Everton's impossible situation is defeatist?
As for Moyes's defeatist attitude, what? I never get people who say that. I am not his biggest fan and his decision-making is questionable sometimes but defeatist? Not a chance. He's more of a conservative type of manager who lacks an edge to make the right sub or tactical decision but that does not make him defeatist.
Love or hate Moyes, there's nothing we can do to get rid of him ? simple as that.
Being the stato I am, I checked McClaren's record against Moyes and interestingly enough, McClaren's loss ratio over his whole career is 31.28% whilst Moyes is slightly lower at 29.13%. His win ratio at his last job was actually only 28.81% wheras Moyes is at 41.55% for his current job... big difference
Steve as pedantic as it seems the only true fact you stated is the club is broke the rest is conjecture, it is more likely than not that BK isn't going to sell anytime soon but not a fact and it's conjecture what DM thinks in private about staying at Everton as everyone has a breaking point.
There are only really two people who can get DM out of Everton; BK and DM.
There are only really two people who can get DM out of Everton; BK and DM.
Gavin,
My response would have been very similar to TJW's in that Mourinho could more easily make game changing substituions with the calibre of players he had on the bench at Chelsea. But that is exactly my point. People criticise Moyes' tactics and call him 'dour', over-cautious and defensive.....but it is exactly that attitude which won Mourinho trophies at Chelsea and Milan. My question was whether Moyes, if he had had the financial clout of Chelsea, could have won trophies, using virtually the same tactics as Mourinho by being able to attract a higher calibre of player in the positions where it mattered most.
My subsidiary question was, therefore, if Moyes had had that advantage, had won a few trophies, would he still be receiving the kind of vilification he receives on this site? It is not Moyes' fault that he can't attract players like Drogba or Essien but if he could and we had Chelsea's trophy haul over the last few years would you still be calling for his head?
A further question is....is there anything at all you see as positive about this club? Every post I see with your name on it is full of vitriol. That's up to you but it's not healthy lad!
My response would have been very similar to TJW's in that Mourinho could more easily make game changing substituions with the calibre of players he had on the bench at Chelsea. But that is exactly my point. People criticise Moyes' tactics and call him 'dour', over-cautious and defensive.....but it is exactly that attitude which won Mourinho trophies at Chelsea and Milan. My question was whether Moyes, if he had had the financial clout of Chelsea, could have won trophies, using virtually the same tactics as Mourinho by being able to attract a higher calibre of player in the positions where it mattered most.
My subsidiary question was, therefore, if Moyes had had that advantage, had won a few trophies, would he still be receiving the kind of vilification he receives on this site? It is not Moyes' fault that he can't attract players like Drogba or Essien but if he could and we had Chelsea's trophy haul over the last few years would you still be calling for his head?
A further question is....is there anything at all you see as positive about this club? Every post I see with your name on it is full of vitriol. That's up to you but it's not healthy lad!
.....or to put it another way. If, using the tactics he uses now which are virtually the same as Chelsea's but who had better players in important positions, Moyes had had something like their success, would anybody on this site be saying............
'We might have won the League three times, The FA cup three times, the double once, the League Cup twice, got to the Champions League final and never been out of the top four in god knows how many years...but fuck off Moyes you dour, defensive, over-cautious bastard.'
No you wouldn't.
Because with the glint of silverware every football philosophy or preference exits stage-left!!
'We might have won the League three times, The FA cup three times, the double once, the League Cup twice, got to the Champions League final and never been out of the top four in god knows how many years...but fuck off Moyes you dour, defensive, over-cautious bastard.'
No you wouldn't.
Because with the glint of silverware every football philosophy or preference exits stage-left!!
I`ve always believed TW gives a pretty accurate reflection of the thoughts of the Evertonian.
However, I can not agree with Michael about whether we can talk about a majority, I believe the reception from The Goodison Park faithful after the Chelsea game provided conclusive and irrefutable proof that Moyes has the support and Backing of the overwhelming majority, that said I think Michael actually belongs to that majority... The majority ? or at least every Evertonian I have ever come across ? are highly critical of Moyes, they know there is room for improvement and many demand it of him, but relatively few (even on TW David #14) actually call for Moyes to go, of course there are a few, just like there are in the stands and in the alehouse`s.
Davey Moyes would have to be deaf dumb and blind to not be aware of the criticism, but we all saw that reception after the Chelsea game, it must have given him considerable encouragement. the reception was from the matchgoer, without whom there wouldn't be an Everton to discuss. The people who feel the need to call these loyal fans ? the lifeblood of our club ? childish and idiotic names are merely an embarrassment to the more intelligent critics.
Anyway, Ya pays ya money and ya takes your choice, If you believe hammering the manager will make him pull his socks up then you must hammer him, personally I will always support the manager of this club, simply because I believe incessant criticism only serves to increase the pressure in what is already a highly pressurised job.
Worried? No way, Moyes is a decent manager and I`d like him to stay, but if he chooses to go, it will be his loss.
Goodbye David Moyes and thankyou!...This summer, David Moyes will realise the abject failure of Bill Kenwright and the board to attract investment to our club.
When the likes of the "Giants" of Swansea and Norwich City start making signings and he begins trawling through free signings/Bosmans and still cant afford the wages, rather than sitting there with a face like a bulldog chewing a wasp, this time it will finally hit home.
He will look at the record of failures/cock ups as long as your arm of our current chairman and realise, that while Kenwright can commit continual bodge ups and still not have the dignity to resign, IT WILL NOT GET ANY BETTER....Villa ?..Spurs ?..It will happen.
When the likes of the "Giants" of Swansea and Norwich City start making signings and he begins trawling through free signings/Bosmans and still cant afford the wages, rather than sitting there with a face like a bulldog chewing a wasp, this time it will finally hit home.
He will look at the record of failures/cock ups as long as your arm of our current chairman and realise, that while Kenwright can commit continual bodge ups and still not have the dignity to resign, IT WILL NOT GET ANY BETTER....Villa ?..Spurs ?..It will happen.
All David Moyes needs to do if he is thinking of taking the Villa job is have a word with Martin O'Neil. He will put him straight with regard to false promises made by the owner. Make no mistake Villa are a selling club and he will have to sell to buy and the owner will tell him when to sell.
From what Moyes has said that is not the situation at Everton, where Moyes calls the shots. If one of the big money clubs came in for him then I think he would go but thats not were Villa are so I would be very surprised if he went.
From what Moyes has said that is not the situation at Everton, where Moyes calls the shots. If one of the big money clubs came in for him then I think he would go but thats not were Villa are so I would be very surprised if he went.
Might well be a selling club but they can afford to buy a £20m pound forward in the January window though.
Tony and Dave...If Moyes cant make game changing subs because he turns around and cringes at his bench, then he's only got himself to blame. 9 years and all he has is the 11 players he picks to start a game. Boss manager him.
Thank you Dave Wilson (#61) for pointing out what has been ignored on this site about the ovation the manager got from those attending the final game of the season. The overwhelming majority of the the fans understand the problems the manager has to deal with due to the inept board.
I think all humans would be confused with your statement Eugene
Mike, how can he fund new players when he has to sell a couple to buy one decent one? He has a good starting XI when fit but after that he pretty much has nada.
Is that the 'nada' that Moyes lauded as such a great squad at the start of the season, the 'nada' that produced better results as we lost so many of our "good starting XI" to injury, etc.?
Dennis.
Moyes said this was his best squad ever, whats wrong with that? It's a fact.
The trouble Moyes has is he is having to build brick by brick, it has taken him years to assemble a squad ? one we could afford. Yet the managers of the top six can all go out and buy better players than ours every time the transfer window opens, they now deal in 50 million pound strikers.
Rich owners are able to secure the services of the cream simply by paying more wages than we can, most Evertonians recognise this and think Moyes does a good job competing with them at all. That's the reason he was given such a ringing endorsement from the GP faithful.
Whether Moyes goes or not, our time will not come until we have a board that is able/prepared to pay the wages to attract the best.
Dave, You really think match-going fans might not have cheered Moyes and the players on their lap of appreciation?
I know what will stick with me from this season, and it has more to do with the promise at the start, quickly followed by the realisation of Moyes's total failure to do his job properly with the players that he had in the first few weeks that saw this "best squad" BOTTOM of the Premier League.
Michael, Don't you think that you should also see it as the players failure to do their jobs too? Like for instance our very first game, our goalie failing to keep hold of a ball he had already claimed?
I don't think you will though.
I don't think you will though.
I think Moyes was dead right when he said this was the best squad he had ever had. But did he ever say it was the squad he wanted or thought he should have at his disposal? No he didn't. It wasn't Moyes who said we had a chance of winning the league last season it was posters on this site (and others) and blokes in the pub and fellas chatting about the 24 year rule and all that.
It was our expectations that were over the top, not his.
If Louis Saha had hit the ground running last August, if Mickey had got his best form back straight away instead of not at all, if the back four hadn't leaked goals (unexpectedly....and who expected that?) like a sieve meaning we almost always needed to score at least two to win then who knows we might have been up there in the mix. Results were not as good as expected so confidence wanes and home games become a pressure cooker and the whole business gets harder and harder. Just because a football pundit says our performance against Blackburn was just like watching Barcelona but without teeth up front didn't make us feel better because Moyes had always said we needed a striker but couldn't afford one. So he knew what was needed and that's his job. Providing the cash isn't.
Alex Ferguson said more about Everton's prospects at the beginning of last season than Moyes ever did when he said he thought we were in with a chance as we now had a strong squad! 24 year rule...bring it on hey!
Thinking carefully about it, I can't imagine any half-decent manager entertaining taking Moyes' place at Everton. Who would come here given the financial strictures at the club? More to the point, what manager would come here and do a better job than Moyes has done given those financial limitations?
Clubs like West Ham and Birmingham have had more cash to spend over the years than we have and have gone down. Newcastle had squillions to spend and have been down and are still shite and still below us. Name me one manager who would have kept us up and kept us competitive and got us in Europe and took us to the new Wembley were the Shite have never been and brought us just a hint of some fucking decent footy now and again just like those pristine performances against City home and away last year.... and others. We all might have been a little worried in January but look were we ended up. Once again well into the top ten and missing Europe only because of the way the rules work. And if anybody can think of a manager who would do better than Moyes in these circumstances don't just give me a name because anybody can do that. Tell me why he would do better and tell me how he would make it better given he would have to work with what Moyes has....nowt.
And don't tell me either that it's all about his dour defensive attitude because as I say in my previous posts, Mourinho has exactly the same attitude and plays virtually the same system and he's the 'Special One' with the advantage of lots of cash to buy better players and a few trophies as a result. But even Chelsea can't beat us now.
Moyes can frustrate the hell out of me, especially when it comes to substitutions and standing on the touchline barking out orders like an anxious parent at a Sunday league match. But the job he has done at Everton, given the resources he has to work with, could not be bettered.
It was our expectations that were over the top, not his.
If Louis Saha had hit the ground running last August, if Mickey had got his best form back straight away instead of not at all, if the back four hadn't leaked goals (unexpectedly....and who expected that?) like a sieve meaning we almost always needed to score at least two to win then who knows we might have been up there in the mix. Results were not as good as expected so confidence wanes and home games become a pressure cooker and the whole business gets harder and harder. Just because a football pundit says our performance against Blackburn was just like watching Barcelona but without teeth up front didn't make us feel better because Moyes had always said we needed a striker but couldn't afford one. So he knew what was needed and that's his job. Providing the cash isn't.
Alex Ferguson said more about Everton's prospects at the beginning of last season than Moyes ever did when he said he thought we were in with a chance as we now had a strong squad! 24 year rule...bring it on hey!
Thinking carefully about it, I can't imagine any half-decent manager entertaining taking Moyes' place at Everton. Who would come here given the financial strictures at the club? More to the point, what manager would come here and do a better job than Moyes has done given those financial limitations?
Clubs like West Ham and Birmingham have had more cash to spend over the years than we have and have gone down. Newcastle had squillions to spend and have been down and are still shite and still below us. Name me one manager who would have kept us up and kept us competitive and got us in Europe and took us to the new Wembley were the Shite have never been and brought us just a hint of some fucking decent footy now and again just like those pristine performances against City home and away last year.... and others. We all might have been a little worried in January but look were we ended up. Once again well into the top ten and missing Europe only because of the way the rules work. And if anybody can think of a manager who would do better than Moyes in these circumstances don't just give me a name because anybody can do that. Tell me why he would do better and tell me how he would make it better given he would have to work with what Moyes has....nowt.
And don't tell me either that it's all about his dour defensive attitude because as I say in my previous posts, Mourinho has exactly the same attitude and plays virtually the same system and he's the 'Special One' with the advantage of lots of cash to buy better players and a few trophies as a result. But even Chelsea can't beat us now.
Moyes can frustrate the hell out of me, especially when it comes to substitutions and standing on the touchline barking out orders like an anxious parent at a Sunday league match. But the job he has done at Everton, given the resources he has to work with, could not be bettered.
I think you are both right, neither Moyes or the players covered themselves in Glory at the start, for that the manager will always carry the can.
But does anyone really believe Moyes should go through the season without making mistakes ? he`d be the first manager in history to do it if he does.
Michael if I`m really honest I only stayed after the Chelsea match because I felt the players owed the crowd appreciation, not the other way round.
The applaus for Moyes at the end was something quite seperate from the more restrained applause the players got, he walked slightly behind them - cynics may claim he was milking it - but it was his name they chanted, all sides of the ground.
My take on it is that people genuinely believe he makes fewer mistakes than other managers and are therefore more likely to forgive the ones he does make. . .thus far
I dont believe he is idolised like say a Duncan, but the majority - and it really is the majority - have a healthy respect for him.
And before the roof falls in, I`m just saying what I witnessed, I`m not saying everyone feels the same way
But does anyone really believe Moyes should go through the season without making mistakes ? he`d be the first manager in history to do it if he does.
Michael if I`m really honest I only stayed after the Chelsea match because I felt the players owed the crowd appreciation, not the other way round.
The applaus for Moyes at the end was something quite seperate from the more restrained applause the players got, he walked slightly behind them - cynics may claim he was milking it - but it was his name they chanted, all sides of the ground.
My take on it is that people genuinely believe he makes fewer mistakes than other managers and are therefore more likely to forgive the ones he does make. . .thus far
I dont believe he is idolised like say a Duncan, but the majority - and it really is the majority - have a healthy respect for him.
And before the roof falls in, I`m just saying what I witnessed, I`m not saying everyone feels the same way
It's both the manager's and players' faults we ended up where we ended in the league. The issue I have and gets me into lots of arguments, here and in the real world is that I always argue that point but a lot, on here and among my mates argue that it's solely Moye's fault.
How can tactics be blames for a fumble from the goalie, a sliced clearance that sets up a goal or goes in, a goalie that leaves a ball to be headed back into play, a missed penalty, ballooned last minut chances etc etc.
Tactics will get you so far but if the players let you down and there is no one of note to replace the player from the bench, what do you do?
His substitutions are usually crap but so are the players coming on....mostly
How can tactics be blames for a fumble from the goalie, a sliced clearance that sets up a goal or goes in, a goalie that leaves a ball to be headed back into play, a missed penalty, ballooned last minut chances etc etc.
Tactics will get you so far but if the players let you down and there is no one of note to replace the player from the bench, what do you do?
His substitutions are usually crap but so are the players coming on....mostly
I was going to go through the usual responses, but really it comes down to this:
1) Is Moyes in charge as the manager, and therefore controlling the destiny of the team? He makes mistakes: we win some, we draw lots, we lose some.
Or
2) Is the manager more of a figurehead operating the lottery? He spins the balls provided to him to select the team, and watches where they fall during the game, incessantly screaming at them with zero effect? We win some, we draw lots, we lose some.
Is there a difference? You guys lauding praise all over Moyes credit him for the limited success (Model #1) but let him off Scott-free [sic] for his (in my view) abject failures. If he's really not responsible for the failings, then it has to be Model #2 that applies...
Which one is it?
1) Is Moyes in charge as the manager, and therefore controlling the destiny of the team? He makes mistakes: we win some, we draw lots, we lose some.
Or
2) Is the manager more of a figurehead operating the lottery? He spins the balls provided to him to select the team, and watches where they fall during the game, incessantly screaming at them with zero effect? We win some, we draw lots, we lose some.
Is there a difference? You guys lauding praise all over Moyes credit him for the limited success (Model #1) but let him off Scott-free [sic] for his (in my view) abject failures. If he's really not responsible for the failings, then it has to be Model #2 that applies...
Which one is it?
There must be only a select few that laud praise and don't blame him at all. I don't see many on here.
Once again, he can't control mis-hit shots and failed clearances. He is not a God, that much is evidently clear.
His control is of formation not form.
Once again, he can't control mis-hit shots and failed clearances. He is not a God, that much is evidently clear.
His control is of formation not form.
Dave (Wilson) ? Er, where did I say there was anything wrong with Moyes saying it was his best squad? I was just pointing out that it's unlikely he would make such a comment if he felt he merely had a good first XI but no options elsewhere in the squad, as some were claiming.
I agree with Moyes, I felt we had a good squad & had great hopes for the season. It's just a shame that it was only as we lost many of our best players & had to use the rest of the squad more that we seemed to get a better run of results.
We all know it's a long slow process wheeler-dealing your way to a decent squad without any money to spend, but that's the (well paid) job & Moyes does it rather well. I'm one of those who then gets a tad frustrated with what he gets out of his squad.
I also have a healthy respect for Moyes, but I honestly don't expect to ever see any silverware at Goodison Park whilst he's manager. However, I also agree with your comment as regards our Board. Until we some significant changes at Board level then Moyes is at least a safe pair of hands.
Michael
There is clear difference between not accepting what at times is incredible criticism of Moyes and lauding praise all over him.
As Tony points out, there are people on here who seem to think every time we lose, it's down to Moyes`s tactics. somebody really needs to explain to me what that is about? It's an astounding claim... where does it come from? Evertonians are renowned for being far more knowledgeable than that.
Sure he`s made mistakes but if he was such a lousy tactician, how come some of the highest paid coaches in the history of the game have so much trouble beating him?
These critics complain about us being negative while ignoring the fact that 99% of the teams we play set out to flood the midfield in an attempt to stifle US.
They say Moyes plays players out of form but when he dropped three strikers who would have struggled in a brothel, they screamed the fucken house down. Some STILL haven't stopped whinging about it... it was six months ago ffs.
Besides he did it at Eastlands too and in the process became one of the very few managers ? if not the only one ? to get four points from the Boleyn and Eastlands... so are all the other managers who failed to match that tactical idiots too?
And this playing players out of position whinge, where have these people been? Has there ever been a manager who doesn't do that? And not all of them have the excuse of working on a budget of zero and can't actually fill all the positions.
Then there's the 'money doesn't matter' argument, that's just priceless. Take a look not just at this league, but every other league in the world and guess what? The teams that can pay the top wages are the only ones in contention... but we are expected to agree with with people who blame Moyes because he has failed to buck the worldwide trend.
The playing field is so uneven these days. Moyes`s opponents can afford to pay the wages of much better players than he has at his disposal. It's no longer a question of whether Moyes can compete, it's a question of will these guys fuck up enough to let us get within striking distance.
It's not lauding praise on Moyes, Michael, it's merely an unwillingness to listen to the incessant and unrealistic criticism. It's an appreciation of what he`s up against.
Kenwright out !
There is clear difference between not accepting what at times is incredible criticism of Moyes and lauding praise all over him.
As Tony points out, there are people on here who seem to think every time we lose, it's down to Moyes`s tactics. somebody really needs to explain to me what that is about? It's an astounding claim... where does it come from? Evertonians are renowned for being far more knowledgeable than that.
Sure he`s made mistakes but if he was such a lousy tactician, how come some of the highest paid coaches in the history of the game have so much trouble beating him?
These critics complain about us being negative while ignoring the fact that 99% of the teams we play set out to flood the midfield in an attempt to stifle US.
They say Moyes plays players out of form but when he dropped three strikers who would have struggled in a brothel, they screamed the fucken house down. Some STILL haven't stopped whinging about it... it was six months ago ffs.
Besides he did it at Eastlands too and in the process became one of the very few managers ? if not the only one ? to get four points from the Boleyn and Eastlands... so are all the other managers who failed to match that tactical idiots too?
And this playing players out of position whinge, where have these people been? Has there ever been a manager who doesn't do that? And not all of them have the excuse of working on a budget of zero and can't actually fill all the positions.
Then there's the 'money doesn't matter' argument, that's just priceless. Take a look not just at this league, but every other league in the world and guess what? The teams that can pay the top wages are the only ones in contention... but we are expected to agree with with people who blame Moyes because he has failed to buck the worldwide trend.
The playing field is so uneven these days. Moyes`s opponents can afford to pay the wages of much better players than he has at his disposal. It's no longer a question of whether Moyes can compete, it's a question of will these guys fuck up enough to let us get within striking distance.
It's not lauding praise on Moyes, Michael, it's merely an unwillingness to listen to the incessant and unrealistic criticism. It's an appreciation of what he`s up against.
Kenwright out !
In answer to the original post, no we do not need to be worried as Mark Hughes has resigned from Fulham which must be to take over at Villa.
I genuinely believe Moyes to be a man of real dignity and honour and he always said he currently has no interest in leaving Everton for Villa or anyone else.
However, I wouldn't have blamed him if he had... in a similar way, I didn't blame Lescott for going.
I genuinely believe Moyes to be a man of real dignity and honour and he always said he currently has no interest in leaving Everton for Villa or anyone else.
However, I wouldn't have blamed him if he had... in a similar way, I didn't blame Lescott for going.
Classic one-eyed apologist claptrap, Dave. You seek to excuse his manifest failings while berating any who dare to whisper "incessant and unrealistic criticism". What rot.
The likes of you continue to laud excessive praise over him for doing what is at best a mediocre job considering the ability of the resources he has had at his disposal. That he has mismanaged those resources is obvious to anyone with a footballing brain!
Moyes gets deserved blame for failing to get his players to play up to the level of their abilities on far too many occasions this season just gone. But you have excuses for them all. Why don't you entertain us by explaining how the loss of points in each of those games was in fact nothing to do with Moyes at all... whereas the victories were all down to him?
The likes of you continue to laud excessive praise over him for doing what is at best a mediocre job considering the ability of the resources he has had at his disposal. That he has mismanaged those resources is obvious to anyone with a footballing brain!
Moyes gets deserved blame for failing to get his players to play up to the level of their abilities on far too many occasions this season just gone. But you have excuses for them all. Why don't you entertain us by explaining how the loss of points in each of those games was in fact nothing to do with Moyes at all... whereas the victories were all down to him?
Hyperbole is all very well Michael but it may serve you well to try and answer one of Dave Wilson's points. Can you indicate just one major league where the most successful are not also the richest?
And in doing that could you point to a team in any major league that has been more consistent in trying to break into such an elite than Everton..... despite having a conspicuous lack of resources?
The facts are staring us in the face. Four years ago Man City supporters were throwing seat cushions at the players because they were shite. Then they found a Sheik's wallet, bought a team and now they're a top four club and have just won their first trophy in 35 years and everybody expects them to be serious contenders for the league next season.
Is that down to the manager or the wad? If you think it was the manager do you think he could have made the transformation without the wad?
(Mind you Moyes' Everton have tonked them 7 times out of the last 8 but I'd better not mention that as I might be called an apologist!)
And in doing that could you point to a team in any major league that has been more consistent in trying to break into such an elite than Everton..... despite having a conspicuous lack of resources?
The facts are staring us in the face. Four years ago Man City supporters were throwing seat cushions at the players because they were shite. Then they found a Sheik's wallet, bought a team and now they're a top four club and have just won their first trophy in 35 years and everybody expects them to be serious contenders for the league next season.
Is that down to the manager or the wad? If you think it was the manager do you think he could have made the transformation without the wad?
(Mind you Moyes' Everton have tonked them 7 times out of the last 8 but I'd better not mention that as I might be called an apologist!)
Michael
You wont be able to find a post from me that lavishes excessive praise on Moyes . .thats because I havent written one. Thats were you go wrong, you really seem to believe that anybody who wont slaughter Moyes is an "apologist"
If you think all our defeats are down to Moyes`s tactics. or that he is the only manager who has played players out of form or utilised them in other positions then nothing I can say will alter your thinking
If you truely believe he isnt seriously disadvantaged when taking on the six managers who finished above him, you are in a very tiny minority not just amongst Evertonians, but amongst the football community in general.
And if you think anybody who doesnt accept you claims is an apologist then you are labeling an awful lot of Evertonians . .starting with the 35,000 who gave him such generous applause at the final game of the season
You wont be able to find a post from me that lavishes excessive praise on Moyes . .thats because I havent written one. Thats were you go wrong, you really seem to believe that anybody who wont slaughter Moyes is an "apologist"
If you think all our defeats are down to Moyes`s tactics. or that he is the only manager who has played players out of form or utilised them in other positions then nothing I can say will alter your thinking
If you truely believe he isnt seriously disadvantaged when taking on the six managers who finished above him, you are in a very tiny minority not just amongst Evertonians, but amongst the football community in general.
And if you think anybody who doesnt accept you claims is an apologist then you are labeling an awful lot of Evertonians . .starting with the 35,000 who gave him such generous applause at the final game of the season
Dave Moyes! Dave Moyes! Davey Davey Moyes! he's got red hair but we don't care! Davey Davey Moyes! IMWT NSNO.
I get called an apologist on here quite regularly.
The truth is that Moyes standing lies somewhere between lavish praise and ridiculous criticism.
He builds decent squads, manages only decent returns from the level of the players at his disposal, and consequently we finished in a decent position.
He's midtable on a relegation budget which is fine and all, except he has built some decent teams - and criticism of what he's got out of them is justified. But that's simply taking his tactical skill in isolation of his other qualities and the failings of the club.
Be careful of what you wish for is oft used, and any change could well be a disaster. Or maybe a better man manager/tactician could take a Moyes squad and get better results out of them?
Personally, I'll hold him in very high regard when he eventually goes. Not the highest regard but, nevertheless, very high.
The truth is that Moyes standing lies somewhere between lavish praise and ridiculous criticism.
He builds decent squads, manages only decent returns from the level of the players at his disposal, and consequently we finished in a decent position.
He's midtable on a relegation budget which is fine and all, except he has built some decent teams - and criticism of what he's got out of them is justified. But that's simply taking his tactical skill in isolation of his other qualities and the failings of the club.
Be careful of what you wish for is oft used, and any change could well be a disaster. Or maybe a better man manager/tactician could take a Moyes squad and get better results out of them?
Personally, I'll hold him in very high regard when he eventually goes. Not the highest regard but, nevertheless, very high.
Getting back to the OP.
It seems eveytime SAF's retirement is discussed, the Man Utd fans are queuing up to throw Moyes`s name forward as a replacement.
Now we hear reports today that ia recent pole conducted in the Birmingham Mail shows a whopping 44% want Moyes (Mark Hughes managed 5%) Imagine how many votes he would have had if he hadn't already ruled himself out... nearly as many as when the Geordies were calling for him in a similar pole when they sacked Big Sam?
It seems eveytime SAF's retirement is discussed, the Man Utd fans are queuing up to throw Moyes`s name forward as a replacement.
Now we hear reports today that ia recent pole conducted in the Birmingham Mail shows a whopping 44% want Moyes (Mark Hughes managed 5%) Imagine how many votes he would have had if he hadn't already ruled himself out... nearly as many as when the Geordies were calling for him in a similar pole when they sacked Big Sam?
Unlike a few on here, tonking Man City doesn't make my season.
The point is Moyes does "quite well" with what he's got. But when you take into account his faults: crap team selection (Hibbert, no strikers up front); his crap man-management (Osman, Cahill, Yakubu, Beckford); his overly defensive cautious set-ups; his dithering reactionary tactics; the annual Everton rogering at Old trafford; his inability to prepare us for preseason; his preseason sulks and strops...
Maybe it's also fair to say SOMEONE COULD ACTUALLY DO FUCKING BETTER!
Just existing and finishing midtable maybe enough for some Evertonians but its not for me.
The lot of you need to grow some fucking balls.
The point is Moyes does "quite well" with what he's got. But when you take into account his faults: crap team selection (Hibbert, no strikers up front); his crap man-management (Osman, Cahill, Yakubu, Beckford); his overly defensive cautious set-ups; his dithering reactionary tactics; the annual Everton rogering at Old trafford; his inability to prepare us for preseason; his preseason sulks and strops...
Maybe it's also fair to say SOMEONE COULD ACTUALLY DO FUCKING BETTER!
Just existing and finishing midtable maybe enough for some Evertonians but its not for me.
The lot of you need to grow some fucking balls.
How is having extra testicles going to make Beckford not balloon the ball over from 10 yards away at Sunderland?
How is calling Moyes a useless twat going to make sure our goalie doesn't throw away a ball that he has already caught?
Crap team selection, Hibbert, the most European capped Everton player in history, great defender (shite going forward but we can't have everything)...
Crap man management? Who has complained about it? I'm glad the Yak is gone, Osman has a job for life as long as Moyes is here... how is that going to affect Ossie's mind poorly?
The annual rogering at Old Traffic... not always: we have also drawn there, I remember a certain McFadden goal. Also last season we were one among 17 who were "tonked" at Old Traffic.
I could go on but my extra balls are catching on the keyboard. He's not perfect, he's just quite good. Nothing more but some posters cannot grasp the reality that just because we don't seeth and foam at the mouth about someone, we do not think he is the next best thing since sliced bread.
How is calling Moyes a useless twat going to make sure our goalie doesn't throw away a ball that he has already caught?
Crap team selection, Hibbert, the most European capped Everton player in history, great defender (shite going forward but we can't have everything)...
Crap man management? Who has complained about it? I'm glad the Yak is gone, Osman has a job for life as long as Moyes is here... how is that going to affect Ossie's mind poorly?
The annual rogering at Old Traffic... not always: we have also drawn there, I remember a certain McFadden goal. Also last season we were one among 17 who were "tonked" at Old Traffic.
I could go on but my extra balls are catching on the keyboard. He's not perfect, he's just quite good. Nothing more but some posters cannot grasp the reality that just because we don't seeth and foam at the mouth about someone, we do not think he is the next best thing since sliced bread.
Ok Tony point taken but I'm just fucking frustrated with Moyes and Kenwright.
But untill we start banging the drums and stop settling for mediocrity we will always be where we are.
There are far too many many people on here "Happy and Content" with what we've got. We used to be fucking winners not also-rans.
Money or not ? people's attitudes and expectations have changed... not for the better.
But untill we start banging the drums and stop settling for mediocrity we will always be where we are.
There are far too many many people on here "Happy and Content" with what we've got. We used to be fucking winners not also-rans.
Money or not ? people's attitudes and expectations have changed... not for the better.
It's people like you Daniel who needs to grow some balls.
Bill Kenwright must have a little grin on his face every time he hears people like you and the editor claiming Moyes has the required tools for the job, despite all evidence to the contrary.
This may be our best squad in years but six other clubs have better squads.
As long as we have fans like you, who will blame the manager and ignore the fact that the chairman has given him less of a transfer kitty in which to purchase players than any other manager in the league, the board will never stump up.
Why should they? Every time you and the people who share your belief claim our manager has sufficient resources you absolve them rather than challenge them... grow some bollocks lad and try doing the latter, because every time you make this claim, you condone the board... and every time you condone the board you betray every matchgoer who parts with his 5-600 quid and sees fuck all of it spent on players.
Do you really believe there is some wonder guy out there who can suddenly take on these six clubs who finished above us, all of whom have better players than us, and all of whom will spend more than us AGAIN?
Everton are a very big and proud club and you people who not only choose to accept the pathetic amount of money made available to the manager, but actually shout from the roof tops that it's enough are killing us.
Take a long hard look in the mirror guys... and ask yoursleves who the real apologist are here.
Bill Kenwright must have a little grin on his face every time he hears people like you and the editor claiming Moyes has the required tools for the job, despite all evidence to the contrary.
This may be our best squad in years but six other clubs have better squads.
As long as we have fans like you, who will blame the manager and ignore the fact that the chairman has given him less of a transfer kitty in which to purchase players than any other manager in the league, the board will never stump up.
Why should they? Every time you and the people who share your belief claim our manager has sufficient resources you absolve them rather than challenge them... grow some bollocks lad and try doing the latter, because every time you make this claim, you condone the board... and every time you condone the board you betray every matchgoer who parts with his 5-600 quid and sees fuck all of it spent on players.
Do you really believe there is some wonder guy out there who can suddenly take on these six clubs who finished above us, all of whom have better players than us, and all of whom will spend more than us AGAIN?
Everton are a very big and proud club and you people who not only choose to accept the pathetic amount of money made available to the manager, but actually shout from the roof tops that it's enough are killing us.
Take a long hard look in the mirror guys... and ask yoursleves who the real apologist are here.
Dave Wilson ? well said and 100% spot on.
"There are far too many many people on here "Happy and Content" with what we've got. We used to be fucking winners not also-rans" ? Not that many, but I do agree with you.
It's very true Dave, that there is a limit to what any manager could achieve with the resources available to them under the current regime. Until we see significant changes at board level then we won't really be going anywhere & I think we can all sense this feeling of stagnation. However, within these circumstances Moyes has steadily developed a decent squad, much to his credit, & he'll quite rightly be criticised if they under-perform ? as was the case for much of this season.
If I'm to give Moyes credit for our improvement in the latter part of the season, despite the loss of a number of first XI players, then I'm also going to be critical of the poor start/first half of the season. My criticism is not on the basis that we're no match for Barcelona, but in the context of Moyes managing the squad he has developed to best effect.
If we had a different Board, running the club better & offering Moyes more financial support, in turn enabling him to improve the squad further, then his performance would be assessed within a different context. Lack of money is an explanation as to why we have the squad we have but it shouldn't be used as an excuse when that squad underperforms.
Dennis
As ever, without resorting to name calling or telling other fans to "grow a pair", you put together a reasoned and fair criticism, I cant dispute what you say.
My point is this : if a top jockey is up against 20 other jockeys at the top of their profession and 6 of them were riding patently better horses, providing the jockeys riding the better horses do a reasonable job, is it unrealistic to expect him to finisher better than seventh ?
Sure Moyes made mistakes, every manager does, but he finished no lower than the people who are now criticising him expected him to ?
He needs a better horse
As ever, without resorting to name calling or telling other fans to "grow a pair", you put together a reasoned and fair criticism, I cant dispute what you say.
My point is this : if a top jockey is up against 20 other jockeys at the top of their profession and 6 of them were riding patently better horses, providing the jockeys riding the better horses do a reasonable job, is it unrealistic to expect him to finisher better than seventh ?
Sure Moyes made mistakes, every manager does, but he finished no lower than the people who are now criticising him expected him to ?
He needs a better horse
Oh well bollcoks to it then I'm just gonna sit back for another 9yrs happy and content with the empty trophy cabinet, the glorious 7th place finishes, the dour negative tactics, the lack of money.
We can all sit and hug, and play happy fucking families.
Lets see what 2011/12 holds because I'm calling it now....... it'll be exactly the same as the other fucking 9yrs.
We can all sit and hug, and play happy fucking families.
Lets see what 2011/12 holds because I'm calling it now....... it'll be exactly the same as the other fucking 9yrs.
I don't think it will Daniel, i predict next year that we will fall out of the Top 10, because all the three promoted clubs will spend more than us on players and all the other 16 will too
Interesting analagy, Dave. Of course, it begs the question : "Is Moyes is really a 'top' jockey?" However, as regards the horse part of the analagy, I suppose we have to give Moyes the credit for developing such a fine horse on a limited budget & commend him when he & his horse show they can compete with & sometimes beat those better half dozen horses (& their jockeys) at Ascot or Cheltenham, etc. The problem is, & the criticism arises, when we're against lesser horses & jockeys at the local gymkhana & sometimes we, er, just don't seem to be at the races!
I also think Tony's right about next season. Rather than challenging for Europe, we may well be in the battle for a top ten position.
I also think Tony's right about next season. Rather than challenging for Europe, we may well be in the battle for a top ten position.
Well one thing's for sure, we're not making any ground on the 6 or so front runners... so all that's left is to look over our shoulder, draw the whip, and hope.
Dave ( #86) I've mentioned before, my other half is a Man u fan, along with her brother and dad who are season ticket holders, and I mentioned your " Queuing up to throw Moyes's name as a replacement "
They say there is the odd few who mention him, but they are hardly queuing up.
They live in Chester, and get the coach along with other Man u supporters. Going to one of the games they said the decision turned to who fans ( On the coach ) would want to take over, 2 or 3 mentioned Moyes, and that was out of a coach full.
They say that the the fans they speak to at the games etc, the consensus seems to be that the job is to big for him.
The first time this story was ever raised in the media, I mentioned it to them, they laughed, and my other half told me to behave myself!
They say there is the odd few who mention him, but they are hardly queuing up.
They live in Chester, and get the coach along with other Man u supporters. Going to one of the games they said the decision turned to who fans ( On the coach ) would want to take over, 2 or 3 mentioned Moyes, and that was out of a coach full.
They say that the the fans they speak to at the games etc, the consensus seems to be that the job is to big for him.
The first time this story was ever raised in the media, I mentioned it to them, they laughed, and my other half told me to behave myself!
Brian.
Every time the Man U job is mentioned, every single time, Moyes's name is thrown up not by anyone on here, but by a very large section of the Man U fan base, we've all heard them, a lot of them think he`s an absolute natural,
Now your inlaws might not want him, that's their perogative, but there's clearly a lot who do and they come on the radio and say so every time the subject is raised. I hate the club with a passion, so I really don't care, but maybe you should get your missus to ring up and tell them to behave themselves too, we might all get a bit of piece then.
Every time the Man U job is mentioned, every single time, Moyes's name is thrown up not by anyone on here, but by a very large section of the Man U fan base, we've all heard them, a lot of them think he`s an absolute natural,
Now your inlaws might not want him, that's their perogative, but there's clearly a lot who do and they come on the radio and say so every time the subject is raised. I hate the club with a passion, so I really don't care, but maybe you should get your missus to ring up and tell them to behave themselves too, we might all get a bit of piece then.
Should we be worried??
Only if Moyes stays.
Only if Moyes stays.
Very few people on here are prepared to wait 9 more years for a trophy. But some of us see the problem of the board as a bigger one than the mangager. I appreciate that some of you have the gift of second sight and know that Moyes would fail with money to spend, but there are some Evertonians who think that he has earned the right to try by moving the team into a position where 7th place is viewed as a failure. Believe me over the 35 years I've been watching Everton there have been many periods where 7th would have been viewed as a fucking miracle.
Next up, is Moyes solely responsible for every single defeat, no. Is he responsible for every single victory, no. Both sides in this sort of discussion trot out the various lines to support their view, and they nearly always ignore the other side. The manager is equally resonsible for the result whether it is a victory or a defeat. He can no more be blamed for a Tim Howard blunder as he can be praised for a Beckford wonder goal against Chelsea.
As for me being defeatist, not at all. If I was defeatist I would say that I could do nothing about the board and blame it all on the manager.
Next up, is Moyes solely responsible for every single defeat, no. Is he responsible for every single victory, no. Both sides in this sort of discussion trot out the various lines to support their view, and they nearly always ignore the other side. The manager is equally resonsible for the result whether it is a victory or a defeat. He can no more be blamed for a Tim Howard blunder as he can be praised for a Beckford wonder goal against Chelsea.
As for me being defeatist, not at all. If I was defeatist I would say that I could do nothing about the board and blame it all on the manager.
So Dave#100, you personally know a large portion of the Man United fan base do you? Is that the match going 75,000, the UK supporting millions or the world wide millions of United supporters?
So, not only are we now a feeder club for United, our supporters revere their supporters as being more intelligent and knowledgeable than us?
It's a bit like when your mum used to say, "So if Billy jumped off a cliff would you do it then?"... Good grief, is this what we have turned into.... "Well, United fans says he's good, so he must be?"
I beg to differ, he has created a great squad and managed to make the collective sum smaller than it's individual parts, his tactically game changing knowledge and reading of the game from the very beginning is crap, his defense-first policy is shit, Moyes needs to grow balls and fast. I'm more than happy to let him have yet another go, his 10th, to see if he has actually learned enough over 10 years to "Have a fucking go at teams at home"... play cautious away if you want, but fucking have a go at home, always.
If it's the same old shite from the start of next season, then he needs to sod off as soon as... Go on Moyesie, prove me wrong. I would genuinely love nothing more than to hear Dave Wilson, Ian Tunstead and Tony Williams telling me how wrong I was, I'm a big boy and can take being wrong, especially if it means the mighty blues are mighty once more. COYB
Robbie.
Do you have some sort of mental block when you read posts posts that dont slaughter Moyes ? you always seem to attack a point you think they`ve made, rather than what they`ve actually said.
I hardly know any Mancs, never claimed I did, I just commented on the number of them who come on the radio calling for Moyes to succeed Ferguson... is that really so hard to understand?
Now you may revere Man U supporters or think of them as intelligent, but I`ve got no time for glory grabbing twats and I wish to fuck they`d stay off my radio.
These Mancs are no different to the Geordies and the Brummies who seem to want to get Moyes to their club. I heard yesterday that he`s the preferred choice of a lot of Spurs supporters too if Arry takes the England job.
If one of these clubs succeed in enticing him away, it will be quite a blow to the 35,000 Evertonians who showed their appreciation for the job he`s doing for us after the Chelsea game.
This has got nothing to do with anybody`s opinion on TW, these polls and radio phone ins are actually taking place, we all hear them and read about them, just as we saw the reception Moyes got from all sides of GP.
Seems Moyes is very near to pulling off the impossible ? he` s perilously close to fooling all of the people all of the time... reassuring to know he`s still not fooling you though.
If Moyes decides to go, it`ll be his loss, I wont lose any sleep, I`ll just throw my support behind the next guy.
Kenright Out !
Do you have some sort of mental block when you read posts posts that dont slaughter Moyes ? you always seem to attack a point you think they`ve made, rather than what they`ve actually said.
I hardly know any Mancs, never claimed I did, I just commented on the number of them who come on the radio calling for Moyes to succeed Ferguson... is that really so hard to understand?
Now you may revere Man U supporters or think of them as intelligent, but I`ve got no time for glory grabbing twats and I wish to fuck they`d stay off my radio.
These Mancs are no different to the Geordies and the Brummies who seem to want to get Moyes to their club. I heard yesterday that he`s the preferred choice of a lot of Spurs supporters too if Arry takes the England job.
If one of these clubs succeed in enticing him away, it will be quite a blow to the 35,000 Evertonians who showed their appreciation for the job he`s doing for us after the Chelsea game.
This has got nothing to do with anybody`s opinion on TW, these polls and radio phone ins are actually taking place, we all hear them and read about them, just as we saw the reception Moyes got from all sides of GP.
Seems Moyes is very near to pulling off the impossible ? he` s perilously close to fooling all of the people all of the time... reassuring to know he`s still not fooling you though.
If Moyes decides to go, it`ll be his loss, I wont lose any sleep, I`ll just throw my support behind the next guy.
Kenright Out !
Dave, why is it that you think you must support the Manager, no matter who, no matter what tripe they serve up, yet you sign off with Kenwright out????
What if Kenwright was the Manager, would you support him or still want him out?
Kenwright, for all his failings, and he has as many as Moyes IMHO, used his own money to buy the club, by all accounts pretty much everything he had, and doesn't take a salary. Yet Moyes gets £60k a week and some believe is the Moyesiah despite the evidence in front of them.
Where you see Moyes is close to fooling most of the people most of the time, I see the emperors new clothes. You see, I see it as I sees it, not as how I am told by everyone else to see it, and certainly not blindly, making excuses for him every time.
Moyes Out! (Unless he grows some balls and attacks first, second and third... I won't hold my breath though.)
What if Kenwright was the Manager, would you support him or still want him out?
Kenwright, for all his failings, and he has as many as Moyes IMHO, used his own money to buy the club, by all accounts pretty much everything he had, and doesn't take a salary. Yet Moyes gets £60k a week and some believe is the Moyesiah despite the evidence in front of them.
Where you see Moyes is close to fooling most of the people most of the time, I see the emperors new clothes. You see, I see it as I sees it, not as how I am told by everyone else to see it, and certainly not blindly, making excuses for him every time.
Moyes Out! (Unless he grows some balls and attacks first, second and third... I won't hold my breath though.)
Robbie
I think you are in a tiny minority if you believe succes is possible with the funds Kenwright makes available to his manager ? whoever that may be.
And I think you are in a minority of one if you still believe Kenwright bought the club with his own money
I think you are in a tiny minority if you believe succes is possible with the funds Kenwright makes available to his manager ? whoever that may be.
And I think you are in a minority of one if you still believe Kenwright bought the club with his own money
Ben (67) - those with the smaller brains apparently would.
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