More of the same, Moyes

Praise for Moyes and Kenwright from Tony Marsh!

Chocks away! Pinky and Perky are cleared for take-off!

The bad starts and great finishes, is it results dictating play or play dictating results... don't know, but beat Villa and we could get a great run going and position us for an attack on 4th. Liverpool will finish 8th.

"I was going to slag off SAF for his usual Gobshite statements after the match". Loved that.

Ha, Tony's lost it. Great to see the optimism but do you have to be as childish as Ferguson in your second paragraph?
I'm reasonably optimistic but I just have this feeling that Moyes will bottle it when it matters most, away to the top teams and Liverpool. I also think that people are automatically thinking Miralles is going to be top class with very little reason to do so. We're still heavily reliant on Jelavic. But I agree that most of the teams going for fourth are in transition and/or hindered by the Europa.
Please post in after the Villa game Tony if only for the craic.

well knock me down with a feather...who hacked into Marshys account?

Tony - have you been at the Jacky Daniels or have you had your meds upped?
Whatever it is you have been on I could do with some.
When I saw your name I was expecting a doomsday prophecy as per usual but no you surprised me for one.

You are right about the RS too.

Off to Villa tomorrow - 3 points too I fancy.

^^GJ, either Richard Dodd has hacked Marshys account or as I always suspected Marshy is just one of Doddy's schizophrenic personalities.

Why is it that some Evertonians never learn? No matter how bad it seems over the park they will ALWAYS come up smelling of roses! I can only presume you are young Tony, and I don't mean that in a patronising sense! As you have clearly not experienced the many lows at the expense of our wonderful neighbours.

The last time I felt the way you did was at the beginning of the 85-86 season, we were clearly the best side in Europe, just signed one of Europes finest strikers and they had just been involved in Heysel, the result? They beat us to the double. When our fans were glowing at winning the title in 87 and Liverpool were in the process of losing Rush to Juventus there was Everton fans again presuming they were in a situation they wouldn't recover from. Barnes, Houghton, Aldridge and Beardsley were at the heart of one of the best club sides that England has seen and yet again the title returned to Liverpool.

Again I remember the beginning of the 99-2000 season when we got a decent draw against Fergusons treble winners and fans got a bit carried away, the next game, funnily enough at Villa soon put paid to that as we got played off the park and John Gregory was even considering playing 10 men towards the end as the referee was having such a poor game. One result does not mean we are in for a good season.

Tomorrow's result could easily go against us, in fact I would be delighted with a draw. Just as one bad result for Liverpool doesnt make them a poor team. By the way Tony why are you giving Kenwright praise? We have sold Cahill and Yobo to fund the sale of Peinnar that has cost us nearly two million more than we sold him for, plus he is a year older and then we have sold a player that has just been capped for England to the champions for a paltry 12 million of which Moyes has roughly seen half of. Once again Moyes has had to sell to buy, just like he has had to for the last five years.

There is still no mention of the ground issue, no explanation for 24 million that spentfrom funds last year. No mention of where the debtis despite the sale of numerous players and Bellefield nor any update on his never ending search for investment. Well done Kenwright. Hope you are still happy on Saturday evening Tony!

I am eager to see the line-up tomorrow against Villa. Fellaini played right up alongside Jelavic on Monday, and he was let loose to play with freedom.

Some posters have said Moyes won't change - but I believe he may have had enough of KITAHTKO !

Maybe he has realised we can actually beat these teams at their own game - with an attacking philosophy.

Newcastle showed how to go for it last season, often with three strikers when the game was there for the taking, Spurs threw men forward at every opportunity.

Of course there are times to keep it tight, but not every game with the same formation & the same tactics. Tim Cahill was a great servant to the club - a legend. But we always played to his strengths, even when he was out of form. Now he has left the club, it may have forced Moyes's hand to change the way we now set out our team.

Let's wait a few more games before we get too excited - go out with attacking intent tomorrow, and I we might just see the re-birth of Mr. Moyes.

As for Kenwright, he is just a fucking chancer.

First time poster fellas, so take it easy eh?! I'm always surprised at just how pessimistic my fellow 'tonians can be. Yes we know one win does make a great start to a season, but surely there is no better platform to work from is there?

The crowd played a massive part on Monday (I've not seen Goodison rocking like that since Duncan's header against manure) so let's take some positivity to villa!

This may not be that popular but away against villa would like to see Felli dropped back for Pip, Ossie move into the hole and start Mirallas.

I know there's going to be some groans when Moyes announces the same team as just put Utd to the sword. Mirallas might make it on for the last 10 minutes. Thing is though, that team just beat Man Utd. so they're fully capable of dismantling a pesky bogey team.

I'd love to see us build on the optimism of the moment and thrash a mediocre Villa side but Villa will be hurting after their opening day and we might be off the pace after Monday's heroics. They'll be more cautious than United and harder to open up.

Tough game.

Just counting down this transfer window and actually believing a loan addition or two rather than a Baines or Jonny departure likely. Definitely a different feeling inside compared to last few seasons and actually looking forward to it for the first time in a long time. Good to hear you upbeat Tony. I just might have to resurrect the annual pilgrimmage from Alaska this season.
Still can't stand Kenwright's mug.... Let's face it, Pienaar et al is good but short term business. Let's build on it with a long term plan for Goodison, retail/catering and sponsorship reflective of our place in the league and English football.
Come on you blue boys.

Tony Marsh has just done what supporters do. Praised when it was due. When criticism was due he dished it out, There are a few on this site who don't get that. If you criticise Moyes and then he does well,then, apparently ,you must eat humble pie(which I am more than happy to do),

I have seen almost every critic of David Moyes come on and admit when they have got it wrong. It seems to me that his ardent defenders,whilst stating that they,fairly,wisely and with much more insight than the rest of us, condemn when necessary, never actually do so.

Well done Tony Marsh.

I'm similar to you Tony, I can't stand Moyes but I was pleased with Monday's showing and the summer transfers. I think our season will depend on the results we get against the lesser sides at home. If we take the game to them I think we'll do well this season.

Wow, had to read the name at the bottom twice to make sure it was Mr Marsh and not another Tony who posted the article.

To be fair Tony, you're saying what a lot of us have been saying for a while re Mr Moyes - have a go and let the players show us what they can do. It is only one game admittedly but its a damn fine start which will leave the players full of beans. A confident footballer is a good footballer and a good footballer is a confident footballer and all that, as some Argentinian footballer said a long time ago.

Am going to go down the controversial road which will likely get me slaughtered but......I really believe that Tim Cahill leaving the club is the best bit of business we've done this summer. He was/is a top bloke but him not being in the team is going to be really good as far as the type of football we're going to play is concerned. We finally don't have someone in the final third whose role in the side is simply to 'cause a nuisance'. Each of the 3 attacking midfielders behind Jelavic will bring a lot more attacking intent, guile and power (in Fellas case) than Tim brought us in the last couple of years. We can now play a proper 4231 as opposed to a defensive 451 regularly (hopefully). (Cue the Cahill fan club issuing a fatwa on my head!)

Message to Moyes: goals win games, wins = more points (and you can get to your belover 40 point mark earlier!). Please have a go!

Also Villa are shite at the moment and I want to finally stuff them on their turf. I can still remember being embarassed by that 6-2 defeat in 1989(?). Even then we were 6-0 down and made it a bit more 'respectable' with two late goals if I can remember - think Tony Daley took us apart that day.

Add the Manu result to expecting my Chronicles of a Binman in the post anyday now and this season could be ggggrrrrreeaaaattttt. (Back to my Frosties!)

COYB

The football365 website does a thing called big weekend. If any of you read the website it uses the big weekend section as a preview of sorts of the weekend's games. They have this weekend listed as a big weekend for Everton. After the Utd game and how it went, the game against Villa this weekend is really huge for us. If we build on the feelgood factor of that game with a win and a good performance against Villa, we really will have a fighting chance of a really good start to the season and a change from other years.

Tony Marsh, credit where it's due. As patronising as this sounds, and I apologise, it is really good to see that you are prepared to give credit where it is due. I do usually enjoy your articles and I do agree with your take on things,if a little overly negative at times.

Denis Richardson, I can vaguely remember that game. I have it in the back of my head that I saw the game live on t.v. You're right too, Tony Daley did tear us apart.

Denis #894, I think you make some good points. As one of his ardent fans, even I can accept the limitations that Cahill brought in his last 18 months. I actually suspect even he did.

We've not beaten Villa home or away in 6 seasons, so we're due a result. I can recall being 3-1 up at Villa but being pegged back to 3-3, with I think a highly dubious penalty.

Also, that 6-2 game you mention in 89-90, we were vying with Villa that day as one of the early pace setters. I think had we won, we'd have gone top. It was also battle of the strikers for an England spot - Newell v Platt. Our two late goals were a Cottee finish, and a Paul McGrath OG.

Highlight was at 6-0 down, some wit (can't call them wags anymore?) shouted out "aint too bad, where else do you see a goal for every quid you paid to get in?"

Wow. Had to check the date to make sure it wasn't the 1st April.

Fair enough to give credit when its due although Monday will count for little if we don't manage to put a few decent results together.

There's no doubt in my mind that we have one of our best starting 11s in years but my concern is that in the long format of the league we don't have much depth. If Fellaini and Gibson got injured we could quite conceivably have Neville and Heitinga as their replacements, whereas the like of Arsenal and Tottenham have strength in depth.

I would also love to think that Liverpool won't be in the races this season but sadly i'm not sure thats true. Rodgers is a top manager and if they get Nuri Sahin then they will have in my opinion one of the best central midfields in ENgland with Gerrard, Allen and Sahin. Even in losing against West Brom they had higher pass completion rates and possesion than in any game under King kenny. Either way i'm loathe to say it but I think they will definitely be challenging for 4th place despite maybe having a slow start.

A point tomorrow would be no disaster but 3 would really continue this wave off confidence and if we could bring in another face or two on loan before the window shuts I see no reason why we can't challenge for 4th but even after Man U the best you can get on us for top 4 is 9/1 whereas Spurs, Arse and RS are all 2/1 or less. So we're still outsiders, but then all the more satisfying if we manage it.

"New path" Moyes is on Tony....you mean being able to bring in & pick from a better squad of players. I'd say that was his first & second 5 year plans.

It's one game. Let's see how and where we are after 10,

Tony

I think you will be back writing another article on Saturday night as I am not sure Moyes has completely changed his safety first mindset yet, especially judging off his reticence to play the new guys instead of persisting with the old guard.

FFS Sean #908
Exactly cos thats how fickle some fans actually are. By the way every man & his dog has accepted that Moyes got it spot on against Manure....but no we are all wrong....he really fucked up cos he didn't start with Naismith & Mirallas

Sam, I am surprised by what optimism Liverpool have. Carragher and Skrtel can't play from the back, Agger is injury prone, Suarez is wasteful and add in a lot of young players in the middle of the park who will get streamed over I can see them picking up home points but struggling on the road.

For our chaps, who knows? We have the team to beat Villa, Newcastle and Swansea, but also have a team that could draw, squandering points.

Gut feel is another 2 or 3 in, with Big Vic being another casualty in the new 5-year plan.

There are a few elements in the equation, but a big factor is that we've got a man playing up top who makes the lone striker system work, instead of the finished Saha.

There was a distinct difference even when Strac had a go and Jelavic is streets ahead of him.

We all know about the finishing, but he is prepared to do a shift, back to goal, link and can run in behind. He did a shitload of unheralded dirty work the other night.

Hes genuine quality, a 100% steal.

Take Cahill out of the equation for Fellaini and we have real impact again, with the new kid to bed in as well giving us variety and options behind Jelavic.

But its all about the boy up top and we have no cover. As Liverpool have found out, they have a cracking player in Suarez but no one of genuine quality to play ahead of him that he can combine with and feed.

We have Anichibe and maybe Fellaini could do makeshift striker at a push. But I would love to see some genuine physical, pacey cover who can do lone striker and give Jelavic a break, because its a tough, tough job. You cannot do what he did the other night every week without a dip.

Hes a cracking player, we need to treat him kind and not flog him to death.

Bobby #924
Couldn't agree more. Did you see the "Moyes at Wolves" thread...not saying Kevin Doyle is the answer but I think Moyes is actively looking for someone to give Jelavic a rest every now & then.

Love him or hate him we are all joined to Tony Marsh as we are to each other half full or half empty we all come under the label of Evertonianand and I include Kenwright in that.
Like it or lump it we are different yet the same. Vive le difference!
It is not merely a football club that binds us, it is in our soul, our way of life, something that cannot be explained.
It is a bit worrying though when Marshy comes across like a marsh mellow.

Brendan, I'm starting to wonder if Doyle might not be a good signing. I've liked him for a while but thought his best days were behind him. Have you seen him lately? Do you think he might strengthen the squad?

Andy #981, (I'm not trolling you here, but I think you have an affinity towards players of Irish or Eire qualification)

Doyle - not on your Nelly.
Coleman - never going to, much as I'd like to see him make it.
Duffy - agree, he's got to be a big Blue & White hope

As someone who was born, at home, in L4, I'd love to see a few more home-grown players, but I'm probably biased!

I think this post is some sort of shenanigans. Can Michael or Lyndon confirm that this is actually THE Tony Marsh?

Assuming it is the man himself, I have to give you some credit, Tony, for not being stuck in the mentality that Moyes never does anything right. I thought you were one of those people that just slags him off regardless of what happens but it turns out you're just very objective. I was wrong and I think I speak for a good portion of Toffeeweb when I say that.

Sam #905' have to challenge Rodgers is a top manager. There is no evidence to back this up. I for one am delighted that he is in charge of the shite, my only hope is that they keep him for at least a full season, they can then give the job to smartarse Carragher who will seriously fuck it up.

Andy Crooks makes a great point - call a spade a spade, that is all Marshy has ever done. I have mentioned in the past how the Moyesophiles don't critique him. Their choice I suppose but how can you improve with hope? Changing the way you do things changes the results you are looking for. This summer EFC have changed how they have gone about there pre season business and on Monday I believe we saw the benefits of that. Does anyone think it was a coincidence that Felliani was a giant on the day after we brought his international team mate and friend to the club. I have criticised Moyes when I felt I needed too and I will continue to do so, but as I did on a Monday night thread I also gave credit to him ad Kenwright for their efforts over the summer.

Role on Villa and another raving endorsement of the school of science. COYB.

Sean 908, I'm nearly with you.

Could this be Tony Marsh paving the way for the sledgehammer if we bottle it against Villa?

I wouldn't start heaping any praise on Kenwright. I don't trust him as far as I could throw him especially before the window shuts.

I agree Moyes seems to have turned a corner in 2012. I don't think people are excited just because we won 1 game, I think it's more to do with the fact we look to be continuing where we left off.

I am genuinely excited about this season now not just at the prospect of finishing high up the table but because I think we're going to see some of the best football at Goodison for a generation.

Expectations are dangerous things and they must be managed.. If you expect fourth, which is realistically the best we can hope for, anything worse is a disappointment.

Let me just temper your expectations in the hope of increasing the possibility that you will be pleased with this season rather than frustrated.

Everton have done some good transfer business but they haven't overhauled their squad any more than most teams in the close season, we have just become used to inertia because we are completely potless.

Arsenal have brought in international class players who are out of our price range into a squad which was already better than ours. yes they've lost RVP but we will never have an RVP so let's gain some perspective.

Spurs, well I agree with you about AVB but they're not finished in the transfer market yet and they've already brought in Adebayour and appear to be in the cusp of signing Toffeeweb favourite Moutinho for more money than we have ever spent on anyone.

Newcastle already had a squad which was 95% complete with goals from all over the place and an abundance of international forward players.

We have one striker who you could hang your hat on to get you 15 goals and very little after that, one injury and our league campaign is over.

Don't mean to piss on your chips but that's the other side of the coin.. I'm more optimistic about this year than I can remember being for a couple of years but let's be realistic, we are not 'favourities' to finish fourth. We do stand a chance though in a perfect storm.

Bollocks Paul, Marshy has come on and had a go at Moyes when we have won games. Begrudging praise is not calling a spade a spade at all.

The so called "Moyesophiles" do critique him, they just don't do it in a foaming at the mouth sort of way.

I like to think I can call it as I see it but Marshy's hate is so ingrained that even his praise is almost sarcastic...hence the "gulp"

Don't get me wrong, I like reading his posts and the comments of all the Marshettes too.

Well said Drew, we are a few injuries away from being "that team" last season again.

I used to be an optimist but Everton throughout the years have ground me don't (the missus didn't help either)

Great attitude Tony, credit where it's due and criticism when it's deserved,.

COYB

I just read we have NEVER won against Villa under Moyes on their ground.
Wow, that puts a dent in the joy does it not.

Andy (891) "I have seen almost every critic of David Moyes come on and admit when they have got it wrong. It seems to me that his ardent defenders,whilst stating that they,fairly,wisely and with much more insight than the rest of us, condemn when necessary, never actually do so."

Andy whilst I enjoy reading your posts and the balance that comes through in them, I can't let this go. Its pretty much the opposite of the truth. All of Moyes defenders constantly refer to his weak points, failure to seize the initiative, negative substitutions, reliance on favourites etc, you are notable as just about the only critic of Moyes who ever comes on and admits when he's doing well. This post is a real watershed from Tony, and you can't blame people for having a bit of a laugh about it if you read his previous posts stretching back over five or more years.

And your opening line... this is about the first time ever Tony Marsh has deemed Moyes worthy of praise. There may have been one other occasion, possibly the last time we beat Man United.

In fact, in a bizarre way, this piece of writing from Tony Marsh is the single biggest sign that things are looking good at Everton! Great to see the optimism reaching even those hard to find corners

Drew(019) some very erudite comments.

One point I would make however is that I don't think we needed an overhaul. The basis was still there in terms of stability and solidity with the keeper, back four, and holding players, even last Jan.

We needed the add ons wide and up top and a resolution to Cahill. We needed threat. You can be as organised and as disciplined as you want, and we generally are, but without threat its a slog.

We have gradually added the threat,
now its depth, up top and a deep mid, so Fellaini can play the majority of his football further forward.

I'm not a big fan of Moyes — the dull boring negative garbage served up in recent times had me wanting him out... but since the Sunderland FA Cup tie awa , it looks like the football has improved and the attitude and demeanour had changed. I like the way he goes about it and no longer gives Ferguson any respect. Everton is a big club....

Mike , good post. I accept what you say. Matt, you are quite right in what you say,also.I make no apology for supporting Irish lads at Everton. I take immense pride in seeing them do well and ,to me, an appearance for Everton is the equal of an Irish cap.If I lived in Liverpool I'd feel exactly the same about local lads.

Tont Marsh- I respect your change of stance and agree that we can finish 4th, if and only if we can stay clear of certain injuries. I do find it strange that you have posted such a positive piece regarding Moyes and Kenwright, but I admire the fact that you of all people on this site feel so positive at the moment. Long may it last.

NSNO

Dean #136. I don't see why you find it strange. There are too many on this site who hold entrenched views, and are unwilling/unable to see the other side, or give credit where it's due etc. I don't see why, it's no loss of face, rather it shows someone who's balanced and fair-minded. I'm sure I'm not the only one when I read a post, I see who's written it, and I already in my mind have an idea of whether it's going to be balanced, to the point where I even won't respond to some, as it's like mud wrestling with a pig - ultimately futile, and you realise the pig is enjoying it.

Tony's biggest problem is, again, unlike some posters, he doesn't spend the whole time arguing his corner, or feel the need to post / write an article after every match.

Like most on here, I'll give praise where it's due - to player, manager, board and fan. Where they fall down, they can be called out on it. Too many on here think the board / manager / players are infallible. News flash, they're not, just like they're not the devil incarnate either!

Since the Swansea game last season, Everton/Moyes have adopted a totally different philosophy.

Before this game, our football was nervous, erratic and lacked intelligence.

There was little to applaud and (results-wise) it was generally unsuccessful.

Since then we have shown a LOT more skill, passing, nerve and generally brains.

To suggest this attitude was simply not possible before we signed Jelavic and Gibson, (good as they are), is imo nonsense.

Whether Moyes had a change of heart or (senior) players help changed his mind, I have no idea but I am very happy to give him praise for the TYPE of football we have been (and are) playing and the attitude being shown.

There's nothing odd to me about Tony praising Moyes now and slagging him pre-Swansea - the football we're playing now is praise-worthy and before it was slag-worthy.

It also proves it's not (as the more simplistic like to claim) about simply 'hating' Moyes and 'being negative'.

Eugene, just wait until the next loss after a poor performance for simplistic views.

No Evertonian can find fault with that performance against Villa. Great passing & movement, attacking at every opportunity, plenty of bodies in the final third – we should have won by five or six.

I honestly believe Moyes has had a change of heart. I think the criticism he received after the semi-final against Liverpool hurt him. He went to Old Trafford and we scored 4 against a Utd side going for the title. How many times have we gone there and been happy to keep the score 1-0 ?

This may be his last year at the club, I would see it as a crying shame if this change brought about success in his final year.

The fact he has not been publicly offered another big job may have forced him to have a re-think. You can't deny his teams have been ultra-defensive at times. Let's just hope we are witnessing a new mindset – every blue in the city is on cloud nine today!

Or possibly we now have a young forward who can run and score, we now have quality across our midfield not just one player

Tony, I simply don't believe a couple of decent players is the reason for an entirely different way of playing and a more positive attitude.

Whatever it is, I'm very happy with the change.

Eugene time will tell if we have to play a game without the three players brought in January.

I actually think I must be in a parrarel universe at the moment, a world where Moyes is not tactically inept, and doesn't just set-up to not lose!

Got to give him huge credit though, some of the football was fantastic against the Mancs and Villa. The most pleasing thing for me, we went for it from the off, long may it continue!