So frustrating... but also so much to be pleased with:
The Good/Bad/Ugly...

Truly gutted....:( but in my opinion a few things of note where we have to see just how much better we have become.

THE GOOD

Mr Hibbert – take a bow (hate Andy Gray but only thing to say on him). Quite simply superb. As many have echoed since last night... he may be a bag of shite going forward but there were a few tackles in a very close period of time that took my breath away. Show me any player in our squad – and for that matter, most in top four – with better timing than he. Kudos to a much maligned player but I would rather he be our last option in a one-on-one than anyone. Tony, hats off to you, you watch the ball only and a tutorial video in yourself to young men learning the game.

Young Mirallas (First half mainly) – Early days but he does remind me of a young Ronaldo, got the balls to try stuff, doesn’t always work, and at times selfish but give him time. (Did anyone else think first half that playing in front of Hibbert, our Tony looked the most comfortable going forward he’s ever been.....?)

Leighton Baines – not going in the window. A better, slicker attacking full back I have not seen. He started his career with us nervous and, if I recall, Moyes saw this and gave him time. His goal would have had the gutter press cooing if playing for the Sky 4. Awareness with Pienaar first half just outstanding. (And right under a certain suitor’s nose...) Up yours, sunshine!

A still committed Screech – Yeah Yeah, I’m with the majority... "Keep your mouth shut, son, window’s just closed and whilst your words may have been twisted....YOU SAID SOMETHING....!!! However, again your commitment is second to none." How he gets out with the ball from close attention at times is beyond me. Yeah you’ll go on to chances to win things (and probably not with us as our development is not quick enough for such a short career) but keep this commitment up (along with a hefty while to go on contract and therefore good fee) you’ll have my blessing. You could have thrown your toys out like many others have done, but you didn’t. I won’t say "Thank you" but I will say "Commitment noticed..."

Big Vic – I still don’t get the histrionics. (He seems very down to earth when interviewed?) However, took his goal well... There is a player at times under there!

THE BAD

Howard’s bi-polar – for both goals he could have done better. Other people’s fuck-ups admittedly. But first one – close enough to him for his arm (again seemed to dive over it) and second... I don’t get the star jump. Surely a crouch and arms wide would have been better option... I still rate him but these things will stop him from being at true top level for me.

Neville (/Moyes) – Awkward one as Moyes plays him; not Neville. I truly rate him as club captain and his ability to keep us together on the pitch is clearly valued by his colleagues. However, how many more times are they going to respond positively to his criticisms/cajoling when he keeps fucking up? I don’t think he should have been sent off... but we’ve seen them given. (Incidentally I may be wrong but was it him booked after 6 minutes? errr... who books someone after 6 minutes?!)

Jelavic (absence) – We seemed to fade when he went....? After watching the post collision, I’m thinking it’s severe bruising that was "flaring" till he went off rather than structural damage. It was his muscle that seemed to collide with post. Regardless, although he had not been immense, the remainder of our attacking options seemed to hesitate more with Vic up there....

THE UGLY

Decisions.....To be honest it’s very ugly but I’ll defend the officials. Terrible luck on our side BUT THEY DO EVEN THEMSELVES UP – BOLTON ANYONE?!

Offside for Fellaini – official’s eye-line to me is naturally drawn to him with appearance. The amount of bookings he gets is testament to that and whilst on-side it was tight.

The goal – Anichebe’s foot and post I think were in lino’s line of sight. NOT SAYING NOT UNJUST, BUT........

The Crux of the Article – We are some first team outfit now compared to previous. Paper thin admittedly but I was very proud of not only our dignified 96 effort, but also a team that gives so much – and is (ssshhhhhh) looking more than half-decent...

Well done to all and look at the positives!!!

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Reader Comments (43)

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Jamie Sweet
1 Posted 19/09/2012 at 04:44:27
I remember the Bolton one well Mark. If I'm not mistaken, had that goal stood and all else remained the same, it would have been us and not them relegated that season.

That was a bit too long ago for the footballing Gods to punish us for that one now though surely!

Absolutely gutted we didn't get the three points especially considering the two legitimate goals, however if either one of the Fellaini or Anichebe goals stand, there's a good chance at 2-1 that we would have sat back and way too deep for the rest of the game and still drawn 2-2 anyway. That's often the way we roll.

Chad Schofield
2 Posted 19/09/2012 at 06:49:23
Fully agree and just wrote similar comment on match report.

For me additionally there was a lack of decisiveness by Moyes. He did swap Anichebe and Mirallas eventually before taking of the packet Belgian a few minutes later, but if Naismith had have come on for Neville who was booked and having a mare either could have gone alongside Big Vic or play them up top with Vic on right and Fellini helping in Neville role.

Moyes let them back in, as much as Howard's half five and gay star jump – he also pulled off that great save where Jags slid in and got ball back to him. As much as Neville teeing up their players with erratic heading, poor passing choices because of his limited distributing ability – he drives us and is a fantastic ambassador. Pienaar's at time sublime play and set up for Baines, but not passing to Osman and that other horrible miss...

Obviously there were bad points all over the place, but Moyes (and Round) must do better because they have even more impact than any single individual on the team.
Martin Mason
3 Posted 19/09/2012 at 07:11:41
Surely though it's difficult not to be pleased? At times we're playing stunning football, making chances and scoring goals. Twice on the trot now though we've dominated completely and not converted that into winning positions, the opposition have reorganised and managed to deal with us and perhaps we've been not good at responding again. If I personally have a real concern now it is the brittleness of Distin and Jags and how easily they are beaten when turned.
Peter Warren
4 Posted 19/09/2012 at 07:39:48
Bring Heitinga back for calmness and leadership that we lack. Bolton??!! Erm a foul on Big Nev by Blake meaning it should have been a free kick to us and booking for Bolton.
Eric Myles
5 Posted 19/09/2012 at 07:48:51
On a few threads there's been bemused comments on Howard's 'star jump' but to me it's obvious Howard thought Ba was going to try to lob the ball over his head.
Chad Schofield
6 Posted 19/09/2012 at 07:54:13
Martin, you're right, positives outweigh the negatives but our season could easily end up like the Newcastle game where we squander an abundance of chances only to rue (I'm sure that's not right spelling!) the chances missed.
Nick Entwistle
7 Posted 19/09/2012 at 08:18:38
The first 15 minutes was outstanding, world class football, never seen them play better. The rest of the half was better than Villa first 45 so we can definitely play. Swansea could be torn asunder.

As for Howard's star jump, most players would try to lob the 'keeper at this point. If he stayed on the ground and was lobbed we'd be on his back. Most strikers would lob, Ba was clever, used his head and preempted this. Schmeichel used to star jump all the time!

Tony J Williams
8 Posted 19/09/2012 at 09:15:24
Fecking Bolton? That was last century for fecks sake.........
Ray Roche
9 Posted 19/09/2012 at 09:38:49
I'm sick and tired of people bringing up the "Bolton goal that never was" to justify an argument.

Anyone who was there, or who saw the highlights later on, would know that Southall was fouled immediately before the ball crossed the line and if it HAD stood it would be talked about even today, as the goal that should never have been allowed and which sent us into oblivion.

For fucks sake, get the facts right. Whether the ball crossed the line at Bolton or not, it would not have been a correct decision to allow it anyway.
Tony J Williams
10 Posted 19/09/2012 at 11:35:11
Don't you think the 10 or so penalties that AJ should have been awarded in one season and was agreed by the head ref to be wrong decision makes up for one over the line decision following a foul on our goalie?

Fecking Bolton, feck off!!

Ray Roche
11 Posted 19/09/2012 at 12:51:14
Well said, Tony.
Kevin Day
12 Posted 19/09/2012 at 13:02:05
Going along the lines of responding to Newcastle's change of tactics, the commentators at the end of the game (Gary Neville) said Pardew played 4-4-2 to nullify our passing out of the back to build on attacks, basically keeping Baines occupied.

This got me thinking, now I'm no expert, but.... Had Moyes taken off Hibbert (I know he had a good game), and put Neville right back, moved Distin to left back and put in Heitinga centre and pushed Baines left wing with Pienaar left midfield, that could've pushed our line of attack further upfield, nullifying Pardew's tactical change.

Like I say I'm no expert but it was just an idea I had after the game.
Chris Rudd
13 Posted 19/09/2012 at 13:26:38
I seem to remember a Beckford 'goal' not being given 2 seasons ago and Villa going straight up the other end and scoring double whammy style.

That's 2 in 2 seasons and a bit - too many for my liking!

Patrick Murphy
14 Posted 19/09/2012 at 14:11:50
Chris there is also the one where Mason sent off Arteta following his failure to give a stonewall penalty.

For some reason EFC don't get the rub of the green — especially at home! I can't think why... (Oh, yes I can: Rednose staff at Hotels etc giving the officials plenty before our home games.)
Si Cooper
15 Posted 19/09/2012 at 14:20:29
I think the problem with the offside is that the assistant ref is only going to notice the positions of the upper bodies from more than half the width of the pitch away. Fellaini is leaning towards the goal, the defender is leaning away, so the linesman sees blue shirt beyond the last black-and-white player and flags fore offside.

Ironic thing is Anichebe was obviously onside only a yard behind Fellaini and it looks as though he could have gotten onto Pienaar's pass. If he had done and scored, Fellaini probably wouldn't have been flagged because he would be considered to be inactive. Let's hope Anichebe didn't leave it because he got a call from Felli.

I am not a fan of the current offside law anyway. Would rather they went back to the one where there had to be clear daylight between the attacker and last defender, and the attacker was to be given the benefit of the doubt. Mistakes would be made in any circumstances, but I would rather a few extra 'goals' were given rather than good goals were wrongly chalked-off.

Ray Roche
16 Posted 19/09/2012 at 15:07:23
Kevin Day @703

Like you say, you're no expert.

Peter Jones
17 Posted 19/09/2012 at 15:14:11
Our team has a whole lot of potential. Love to see how we come out against Swansea. Hopefully Jellyman is fit and we really take it to them.
Jay Harris
18 Posted 19/09/2012 at 15:27:28
No matter how you dress it some officials definitely show a bias for/against certain teams.

THAT linesman (assistant referee?) was giving decisions against us all night and Jones has never done us any favours.

IMO there are too many closet reds (Of both varieties) about.

Nobodies mentioned Ossie's penalty claim which looked on second glance at the video like a legitimate claim.

Suresh Gill
19 Posted 19/09/2012 at 15:41:08
Artur Boruc sounds good to me now!
Paul David
20 Posted 19/09/2012 at 15:58:52
The good - Baines

The bad - The ref

The ugly - Neville

Brent Stephens
21 Posted 19/09/2012 at 15:55:24
I posted in another thread after the game something which was essentially focussing on the negatives from the game. A post can become too long if you try to get everything in (and then you can be seen as too negative). So to redress the balance...

I was purring at our first half display, as in our MU display. Hibbs better than some give credit for – some of those tackles!

Baines and Pienaar: No club could afford to buy them as a pair.

Jelly's movement and workrate and skill.

Mirallas, can't wait for more.

Naismith adds something.

Fella is enormous.

I'm now going into games not hoping we can get a point or three but seriously thinking we are able to.

Brian Waring
22 Posted 19/09/2012 at 16:16:26
Martin, I don't remember us being dominant against West Brom. In the end, they actually deserved the 3pts.
Tony Marsh
23 Posted 19/09/2012 at 16:59:03
Funny how Neville is continually slaughtered on here yet Osman escapes every week. Monday night, Osman was diabolical playing in his favoured center midfield role so many of you say he prefers. He gave the ball away like a 10-year-old for the first goal and did little else but fall over for the remainder of the match. He stays on for 90 minutes as usual and will no doubt be first name on the sheet at Swansea... I despair.

Neville on the other hand is being asked to play out of position – he is a right back, remember – and at the age of 35 is asked to to a 25-year-old's job.

The ref did rob us but Moyes didn't help either. How can he be helping when he won't drop his Blue-eyed Boys? Howard is shot but he won't drop him either... Can't wait to see how many fuck-ups it takes Howard before Moyes even considers dropping him.

Tony J Williams
24 Posted 19/09/2012 at 17:15:14
"Funny how Neville is continually slaughtered on here yet Osman escapes every week." - Have you not been on here for a while Tony? Osssie "escapes every week" ? - Really?

He played well the first half but was knackered the second half and should have been replaced, but Neville was on a yellow so couldn't really be put back into right back and Hibbert sacrificed like a lot of other times.

Mirallas was not going to last the 90 and I am surprised that Victor lasted 45 to be honest.

Tony Marsh
25 Posted 19/09/2012 at 17:32:55
Tony J Williams,

I'm not just on about Monday night with Osman either. It's every week apart from the odd decent game here and there. Moyes refuses to drop players even when they are totally shot or out of form. Distin is having a horrible start to the season, add that to his Wembley cock-up and I ask you...

Where's Johnny?

Player of the Season last time — can't get agame this....The mind boggles.
Stephen Kenny
26 Posted 19/09/2012 at 17:14:43
We played well and out-classed them for parts of the game, first half especially. We went off the boil in the second half... maybe no Jelavic, or just the curse of the first-half, second-half syndrome.

But we did play entertaining and watchable footy even with the handicap of Neville who cannot pass the ball but has an influence on the rest of the side. I hope we get a holding player soon but we did create and get two goals.
Danny Burke
27 Posted 19/09/2012 at 17:25:23
To address a few points:

Bolton? Jesus wept, as already covered, Big Nev fouled in the build up. these things do not even themselves out, more fuck ups happen and it's pot luck if they go for or against you.

Osman does get plenty of stick on here, I wouldn't say he escapes week in week out. I'd say CM is his best position, mich more than on the right.

Since when is CM a 25 year olds job. Pirlo, Xavi, Zidane all excelled at major tournaments into their 30s. Scholes, Lampard still doing it at top clubs. The issue is more that its not Phils best position rather than age.

I get why Howard's star jump looks shite because the ball went under him. Most players would have put their laces through it or gone for the lob, hence his star jump. I agree he could have done better for the first goal but I still rate him as a top keeper.

Tony Marsh
28 Posted 19/09/2012 at 17:51:23
Danny Burke, you know what I mean... at 35, central midfield is no place for a limited right back to be playing in the Premier League. All the players you mention are specialist midfielders. Are you saying Neville is a Perlo? Ha, ha, ha.... Give me strength!
Jamie Barlow
29 Posted 19/09/2012 at 17:46:48
You can't have it both ways Tony M by saying Phil Neville is playing out of position. Ossie more than most is played out of position and on the rare occasion he does play in the middle, he does alright.

Ossie played well first half and flagged in the second when Newcastle started closing down quicker.

Howard is still a good keeper and in my opinion wasn't at fault for any of the goals.

Ray Roche
30 Posted 19/09/2012 at 18:01:54
Brian Waring @727

I saw the whole game, Brian, and I thought Everton were bossing it until Gibson went off and Neville dropped into his role.

Paul Ferry
31 Posted 19/09/2012 at 18:24:09
Howard wasn't at fault for any of the goals, Jamie (749). Jeez.
Paul Ferry
32 Posted 19/09/2012 at 18:24:09
Howard wasn't at fault for any of the goals, Jamie (749). Jeez.
Ken Crowther
33 Posted 19/09/2012 at 18:11:23
Back to MY's piece.

Yes they will, probably, in time, even themselves out; but speaking as somebody who's first game ever was against Oldham (away) - our last game in the old Second Division, I've seen many a good goal disallowed, both to our benefit and against us; but I'm struggling to remember a game where TWO perfectly legitimate goals were chalked off for the same side.


ps For those of you who don't go back that far, the score was Oldham 0 Everton 4. As I recall,if we'd won 6-0 we would have been champions. As it was Leicester pipped us.

Terry White
34 Posted 19/09/2012 at 22:37:11
While appreciating certain aspects of Hibbert's play, I finfd him culpable, along with Distin, for Newcastle's second goal. Distin was obviously expecting Jags to win the challenge or, at worst, the ball to be played away from our goal as he was too far away from Ba when the ball came through. Whether he should have cleared the ball from the goal line is open to your personal interpretation.

Winning 2-1 with little time to go, Hibbert's ONLY responsibility, as the full back on the opposite side of the field from where the initial ball was played, was to keep the play in front of him and to cover the two central defenders. It is not to mark someone wide and up the field. Once the ball cleared the central defenders Hibbert's job was to mop up behind them, not appear on the scene belatedly.

Ciarán McGlone
35 Posted 19/09/2012 at 22:53:48
It's now Hibbert's fault we lost.

How predictable.

Brian Waring
36 Posted 20/09/2012 at 10:32:51
Ray, we were probalby the better side until Gibson had to go off, but he went off in the 18th minute and I never saw what Martin saw, that we "Dominated the game completely."
Mike Powell
37 Posted 20/09/2012 at 13:12:19
Bolton ffs... how long ago was that? And anyway, it was the right decision: Southall was fouled.

How can you say decisions even themselves out? We never get the rub of the green — how many decisions go against us? So fuck that ref and linesman, they are cheats. We were the best side by a mile besides the officials who gave them everything. It was bad defending and goalkeeping that gave them an undeserved point.
Ken Crowther
38 Posted 20/09/2012 at 16:29:24
Right on, Ciaran 791
Terry White
39 Posted 20/09/2012 at 16:34:55
Did we lose on Monday?
Tony J Williams
40 Posted 20/09/2012 at 16:54:29
You would think so, wouldn't you Terry.......then again, it did feel like a defeat, I did something that I haven't done in years, walk out before injury time was up.
Kev Johnson
41 Posted 20/09/2012 at 17:00:05
Terry and Tony - have you guys not seen the news? Yes, we lost. The FA have retrospectively awarded all three points to Newcastle. The reason given is that we committed a foul throw in the lead up to our second goal. It seems Baines infringed Law 15: "At the moment of delivering the ball, the thrower... [must have] part of each foot either on the touch line or on the ground outside the touch line". One of his feet was inside the touch line according to the fourth official.
Terry White
42 Posted 21/09/2012 at 02:25:26
My point was not that Hibbo "lost" us the game. Merely that because of his lack of cover for the central defenders he contributed to their second goal much as Distin also did because of his slack marking on Ba.
Peter Jones
43 Posted 21/09/2012 at 03:24:54
I'm one of Hibbert's biggest critics and I thought he was excellent. Still would like to see Coleman play and have Hibbert come on to close it down when we have a lead. We'd have more speed on the field and wouldn't have to rely on Baines and Pienaar so much.

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