Judge us after 10 games

The notion that we can further strengthen the squad in January with loan acquisitions, particularly if we're still up there challenging in the top four by then where we'll be all the more attractive to potential signings, is the intriguing one for me. It may even prompt the Board and our lenders to offer Moyes a little leeway in the debt department (not much; just enough to push the boat out a little to bolster the push).

Right now, I'm just enjoying the way this team is playing as a unit and the style of football they're putting on when they're firing on all cylinders. Keep that going, the results will take care of themselves and there's no reason why we can't surprise people this season.

"Penniless, yet we own the world." (St Paul)

Early days though but this current team should fear no one – especially at the end of the month. We do need better cover for Gibson and hopefully that will be addressed in January.

We are a better side than in the 2nd half of last season and that was top 4 form so why not be optimistic and ambitious. I have started my Euro stash ready for 2013!!!

I must stick up for old misery arse himself Tony Marsh (Phil #338); he has been positively chirpy this season or maybe overmedicated but credit where it is due, he has not been his usual self – must have something to do with the quality of football on show. I can't believe I have stuck up for him... I need a lie down.

Navel-gazing after 5, 10, 15...whatever...games is simply idle speculation that even Nostradamus would be proud of.

That's why we need to wait until 10 or 11 games until we can start thinking this side will achieve anything. We're just doing what we should be doing and beating the sides that are usually below us. That'll get us top 6, which is great but top 4 will only be possible if we can pick up points against the usual top 4 sides and the RS aided by the ref.

I don't know where this '10 game' yard stick has come from, I'm sure it's the first season I've heard it used so much, if at all, by so many managers / pundits / fans etc.

So if we are top of he league after 10 games is our judgement going to be we're going to win the league? It should be shouldn't it....? If there's any point making a judgement after 10 games?

But we won't, instead we'd say 'great start but there's an awful long way to go yet, we've not even played everyone yet etc etc'.

I'm not saying don't judge us as we go, I'm just not sure where this mystical 10 game watershed has come from. Ultimately we only get judged truly at the end, anything else doesn't have any real value does it?

Your point, but shed in a different light, is exactly why I am optimistic. We have had so many problems breaking down teams that finished lower than us. How many home points we have dropped over the last two seasons? Stupid.

So far, we have seemed to sort out that problem, and we are also scoring lots of goals. It's a really good sign.

Lyndon also has the good point, where were doing a lot of assumptions. There's of course no assumption we will play as well as we have done to the Chelseas and Man Cities etc; we may lose against them and go back to square one.

Keeping our players fit is also key, but what I have seen is quite encouraging. Anichebe has performed well when Jelavic is injured (I know its only 2 games, but he has done well) and Neville has done alright when Gibson has been injured. We have still won games when they have played. I wouldnt mind Odjidja in at Janurary as cover, and hopefully some more cover in January will come.

I'm worried when Fellaini is injured though. So much of our play is based on him, and if he gets injured, I'm not sure what we would do. Hopefully Naismith and Jelavic can replicate their previous good partnership. I would have said the same with Baines, but to me, Oviedo seems decent cover and will only get better.

I know I'm getting really optimistic now, but I'm a young fan, and this is probably the best ever time I've seen them play, and I wouldnt mind a nice 4th place at the end of the season. I think it is a possibility.

It's also possible to lose the first 10 games of the season and be clear bottom with zero points, but still win the league at the end of 38 games.

So it's really pointless.

Championship winning sides always have that in their locker, that and a refusal to give in until the fat lady clears her throat, as witnessed by the amount of points Man Utd and the RS in their pomp won in the 93rd minute.

It may seem a bit weird calling for a bit of the anti-football that we have 'enjoyed' for the majority of Moyes's time here, but one of the things that comes with expansive football, is gaps all over the field, that the Chelseas & Cittehs of the world will exploit.

I believe we have the chance of a good Cup run and we have the strength to possibly win it this year (and do less well in the EPL as a result?)

What it will all come down to is keeping our top players. We may have some transfer activity in January but my guess is that we're maxed out now and it can only be loans and bargains. The critical thing is keeping Baines and Fellaini as they are our talismen or, if we have to sell Fellaini, that we produce a magic replacement out of the hat and use the balance to pay off debt. The guy is magnificent and irreplaceable for me and I really hope he stays.

We have a good team now, a great attitude and fantastic positivity but a few injuries could see that shatter. We mustn't take relative success for granted this year as there are a lot of good teams and a lot of very hard games to come. I hope most of all though that as fans we stay solidly behind the club.

This is what we are capable of and we could get better with the removal of the weak links. if there was ever a time to properly blood Barkley in place of Osman, this is it.

Moyes will be judged on whether he can maintain and improve. Let's hope it doesn't take ten years...

The ten games reference was indeed only about our start and if we manage to pick up 8 points or more in our next 4 games then I think we will have made a pretty good one though as noted above we have not had the toughest run. Picking up points against the big teams will be crucial if we have any realistic aspirations of champions league.

Very rarely do teams break out of their little pigeon hole much after that (except Everton post Christmas of course).

On a positive note I still think we have plenty in reserve. Gibson is going to come back to full fitness, if he can get back on his unbeaten premier league run then that should keep us ticking over, he's also due a few goals from midfield the likes of which are not really in Neville's game.

Jelavic is only really back scoring, he's still yet to go on one of his hot runs (this could be the start), throughout our period of good form we haven't really been relying on his goals (who wrote that thread about being nothing without Jelavic and Gibson?) when they do flow so will the points again.

The defence hasn't tightened up, statistically we had the third best defense in the league last season, and over Moyes's reign its usually been our strongest asset. So far we've been all over the shop, yet we've still kept winning. At some point it will tighten up considerably and with the clean sheets flowing so will the points.

Apart from Pienaar the new signings have't given us maximum output yet. Everyone can see there's still more of everything to ocme from Mirallas, more goals and more assists (even though he's playing well now). Naismith, a player valued higher than Jelavic by Rangers fans has yet to even feature, there will come a period when his form will come good and we'll reap the benefits of his goals.

In short then I think we've carried ourselves through this period of wonderful play with only a few players reaching their top form Pienaar, Baines (although surely there's a free kick or two in the locker for later) Osman, Fellaini and Neville (although I know a lot would argue whether his performances can be described as form, but I htink he's done remarkably for a player of 35). There is therefore reason to be hopeful then that, injuries aside, there's a lot more potential yield still to ome from other areas of the team. If everone had been in acintillating form from the off then it would be in the back of your mind that the whole axel might fall off at some point. Hopefully as some stars may fade others will pick up the slack.

Lastly I'm sick of hearing about how good the RS have been 'performing', as though they've just invented pass and move. I would pay good money just to have a propaganda gag on them for one week to spare me all the quasi-religious cliched annouuncements they come out with. Take comfort though form the fact that if they've been playing as well as they've been banging on about but got barely any points then at some point they'll start playing badly and will garner even fewer points. We'd be concerned with an injury to anyone but when you consider the possibility of what an injury to Suarez would do to them then suddenly our squad doesn't look so bad.

That's "kecks" not "kegs"; and we won't!

Kev Lucas 383 - I thought your post made a lot of sense so I've set up my own "Season Tracker"!

Everything you say is right - we are on level points against the corresponding games last season, and are only +1 goal difference.

However, take Southampton out of it and 4 out of the other 5 corresponding fixtures we played after the Swansea game on 21.12.11 - which is where our season notably picked up.

Some might argue that our season picked up because we got an easier run of games in the second half – a run we’re having now so why be surprised if we’re doing well? But a run from 21.12.11 to 13.5.12 is a pretty long one - a run saw us get 1.7 points per game. We are currently running at almost ½ a point more at 2.16, against 1.16 in first 6 games of last year.

So, in essence, if we compare our start to last season we are doing as well if not better as we did at our peak last year, form that would’ve put us in the Champions League places. We have literally done what we’ve asked David Moyes’ Everton to do for years, which is take our form from the end of one season and bring it into the next.

A far as the goal difference is concerned you are right, we are +1, but we have scored 30% more goals and conceded 30% less (12/6 v 9/4) than corresponding games last year, which must be good news. WBA cost us dearly on all fronts this year.

As you said, we drew our next 2 games 1-1, both played in Feb / March where we seemed to be struggling for goals despite being in good form generally.

If we score a few in the next two and win away with the style we’ve been displaying so far hopefully the analysis will start to play out that this isn’t a false dawn, but possibly could be the real thing.

Thanks for the tip though – love it!

I'm just enjoying the way we're playing at the minute. I'll go into the derby, as usual thinking that we're going to thrash them too.

*no doubt Fellaini will get sent off for farting, Jelavic will have a goal chalked off because Gerrard will tell the ref it didn't go over the line

Surely the league title is a middle distance race, not a sprint.

Norwich - they just don't have the players (Grant Who?) and it was only Paul Lambert who kept them up last season. A real shame, as they're the only team who play in yellow and green.

Southampton - too good to go down but not good enough to stay up. It's finely balanced but their bizarre decision to ditch their traditional red and white stripes tips them over into the abyss.

QPR - no one likes Mark Hughes. Not even his mum. In fact, no one likes a club with oodles of money to spend. Double whammy. Also, two Premiership teams wearing blue and white hoops is a bit confusing so, with Reading safe, QPR are doomed.

Outside bet: Aston Villa - it was only Norwich's superbly talented players that made Lambert look good last season. Now, with a bunch of teenage no marks to manage, he is looking like a lost haggis. Nice claret and blue kit though...

Of course we could have a collapse in form or a sublime run that sees us into the top 4 but for me these are low probability events. What I see is many ups and downs as we go from destroying many teams to fairly disappointing draws and defeats away at the likes of Wigan where the home team organises well and goes for our obvious weaknesses. I also believe that we may have in us the odd home win against the top 4 but that we don't have in us the strength and ability to trouble them away.

Our weaknesses are at RB or should that be RHS where we are fairly weak defensively with Coleman or attack wise with Hibbert. We are weak in the holding midfield area without Gibson and we know that we will struggle against sides who can nullify Fellaini and that he will always be at risk of red cards. Our CB partnership also looks brittle but that is perhaps more an indication of midfield weakness as they have to play recovery rather than just maintaining shape.

On the plus side we are now capable of playing brilliant football so hang on for a roller coaster ride, lots of disappointment (including possibly losing to Liverpool) and many high spots. I can't see us doing any business in January but if we can get this midfielder it'd be a great start.