The Death of Football Supporters

I have some sympathy for some of what you're saying here, James, specifically when the ball isn't moving forward quickly enough during home games.

I think one of the more pleasing things that Moyes has ingrained in the team over the past few years, helped by our experiences in Europe, is a much-needed patience on the ball; the idea that if a move has nowhere to go, there is nothing wrong with regrouping and trying something different by passing it along the back as long as you're keeping the ball.

I've noticed that the crowd appears to grow frustrated and registers their impatience a little too quickly if a move is developing too slowly for their liking or if a player doesn't pass the ball off quickly enough and I don't think it helps. The best teams know how to keep the ball and keep it moving around the pitch until something opens up and there are signs, to these eyes anyway, that Moyes gets that.

And you're not the first to point out how quiet Goodison can be these days, particularly against supposedly inferior opposition in games we're expected to win — i.e. where the belief is that the famous 12th man of the crowd isn't needed so much. That's almost impossible for one person or even a few people to change, though. It's going to require a collective change in attitude over time.

What you're railing against is, I feel, the result of raised expectations. The team has shown this season that at full- or close to full-strength they can beat pretty much anyone on their day but have, through a lack of clinical finishing or lapses in concentration at the back, failed to amass the points total that their performances have deserved.

It is incredibly frustrating and I think some of what you're seeing — both at the game and on websites such as ToffeeWeb — is a reaction to how the realisation of how tantalisingly close we are right now (despite a small squad and precious few financial resources) is colliding with the fear that we could just miss out by a really narrow margin because of our inability to put teams away.

Now, people are going to express that reaction in a variety of different ways — some constructive, some utterly destructive — and there's not a lot you can do about that, I'm afraid. TW exists as a place for Evertonians to discuss everything related to the Club and it doesn't have much of a raison d'etre if people can't come on here and voice their opinions on the manager, certain players, the Board etc.

[As a related aside, your reference to Moyes "putting up with our Board" kind of proves the point about being able to criticise where things aren't going well at EFC.]

Personally, I'm guilty myself of coming away from watching a game like the Swansea draw feeling utterly frustrated but still accepting of the job that Laudrup's team did in shutting us down. In my report I stated that I think we would have won had Gibson and Mirallas, in particular, been on the field but, with restricted options, Moyes felt he had to bring on Naismith instead.

Again, the frustration at Naismith — who, yes, does need time to adjust but I think there's enough evidence to suggest that he's not an answer off the bench right now — is probably indicative of certain people's feelings towards him, those of others towards Moyes, and furthermore from yet more supporters towards the failure of the Board to provide the manager with the funds to bring in better alternatives.

We're close. I think that's what it comes down to. Very, very close... and some of us are shit-scared that a) we won't make it and b) this could be our last chance. But we'll support the team all the way as they chase the dream.

When Joe Royle was manager of Everton following our FA Cup winning season, Goodison was extremely quiet for long periods during the games and only really rallied when Kanchelskis was playing and got the ball. Evertonians on the whole are pretty good judges of the footballers they watch and the type of football that they see.

Also, even at Goodison Park, there is a new type of supporter – observers, if you like – who are so used to being drip-fed by the media that they often forget that they as supporters are also part of the rich tapestry of the game.

We have played 11 home games and have only won 5 and drawn 5, the wins have all been by a single goal margin apart from Southampton... so, whilst overall our season has been very good, it hasn't been outstanding.

I also believe that we miss a star player or iconic player who the fans can get behind, regardless of his performance, a Duncan Ferguson type who could be a catalyst for the crowd.

Don't forget, in these financial challenging times, it is important that football, as well as being a results business, is also part of the entertainment industry; people pay hard-earned cash to be entertained and will obviously voice their opinion if they feel they have been short changed.

Football supporters haven't died out, but the old-style 'take what you're given' type of fan has long since gone and most supporters have always had a view on the game, but only in the last decade or so have they had a platform to voice those views, even if they are still largely ignored by those who run the game.

James, as for those from across the park, if SAF was announced as their next manager they would be singing his name as well; if you throw fish to a seal, it will clap. I would like to think that Evertonians are little bit more sincere in their feelings towards the club and its staff and we have rarely been a club that needs to wave scarves and 20ft banners to appreciate the game of football.

James, a lot of what you are saying in your article passed through my mind yesterday when I was reflecting on trips to Burnden Park in the 70s. In those days, reaction to results and performances was largely restricted to a letter to the Footie Echo, which would not appear until after the match the following Saturday, by which time it could look seriously dated! Now, a multitude of views are expressed very rapidly, and that tends to create polarised opinions and a dangerous pro and anti attitude, whereas in reality we are all in it together supporting the Club.

Having supported Everton through some seriously depressing times I try to stand back and not rise to people who are ultra-critical when we are lying 5th in a league in which we have little right to be competing on the pitch. But let's not get too misty-eyed, Evertonians have never been prepared to simply accept what is being served up. I can remember serious stick being dished out to the likes of Colin Harvey and Kevin Ratcliffe, and a very subdued atmosphere at times during the 84-85 Championship season when we just sat back and awaited a victory.

We have had occasions over recent years, such as the Chelsea and Sunderland away cup replays when everyone has been up for it. I hope we can have a few more of them this season, starting at the Reebok.

Once football started costing minimum the thick end of £100 for a man to take his 2 boys to a game the unwritten contract betwixt club and fan changed.

Hearing the game spoken of as a "product" the words "revenue stream" and "merchandising" spoken more often than "skill", "courage" and "loyalty" turns fans into customers.

If a "Big Mac" doesn't meet your expectations you let "Ronald" know.

Football is living on foundations laid years ago by people who cared for the game because it represented glory, hope and inspiration. These days virtually every manager believes it's okay to brazenly cheat the paying public and I mean brazenly. There is no attempt at disguise they send out weakened teams in cup competitions, encourage cheating, and berate the officials.

It is a game without honour; how can you have passion and a love of something that is disreputable? Read any club's forum and you will find the same phrases, the same levels of contempt. When I was a kid, a supporter wouldn't denigrate his own team even in jest.

Fortunately for football there is nothing to take it's place; if there was, it would die on it's arse.

Frankly if you boo at half time or full time over a nil-nil, you need to get a grip.

I thought even though we got beat by Chelsea the crowd reacted in a positive manner to a performance that they fully appreciated. Also, maybe the booing was aimed at Swansea for their negative tactics – something that would have surprised most fans attending the game as Swansea usually play an expansive game. Obviously at Chelsea it was a 2-legged Semi-Final and therefore circumstances dictated their tactics.

Excellent article and some really good responses. Lyndon in particular just about nailed it for me, so close you can taste it, so far you away if we fail. Frustration, annoyance, puzzling decisions, little understanding of what the manager is thinking. Blind faith is not enough these days; as Evertonians we have all been frustrated for far longer than Moyes reign, but we are as close as we were in the mid-80s to a measure of success.

We are desperate for the team to succeed, we want Moyes to do it, but we all know the clock is ticking on players and the manager and then on the club itself. The sale of the club has gone on way too long, the lack of investment way too long, some players way too long. Patience incredibly thin because we know its our best chance in years and we want it bad.

Dropped points, poor individual performances and a lack of alternatives mean if anything or anyone is not up to speed we fail, we have no room for mistakes because we have no alternatives.

Hope, fear, frustration, desire, love... yes the supporters are still here, that's what separates them from fans.

Excellent, well written, intelligent posts... but I now feel quite depressed.

If you want an atmosphere fans have to make the effort themselves.

However it's far easier to make up excuses than to make an effort.

Hence the atmosphere is wholly reactive to the more exteme events on the pitch. ie, throw a seal a fish and it will clap.

From kick off the Gwladys Street used to be singing for 20 minutes or so before it levelled out, and that was in the mundane matches, to me that was more pro-active support, I respected that.

Sitting on your arse awaiting entertainment before you sing is exactly what Sky and the Premier League wanted. What amazes me is how many of our have fans have not only embraced this but also try and make excuses for it!

"I'm not suprised the team couldn't be bothered to give that extra percent to find a winning goal" — So James, the fans are to blame?

Also, if the players couldn't be bothered to give that extra percent, then they are cheeky bastards! They are paid millions of pounds to do their job, and they should go out every game and give 100% to earn that money, whether the fans are quiet or not.

There is some claptrap in this article and in some of the supporting responses. Everton also play away in roughly half of our fixtures – some of the above respondents have clearly not experienced an away game in recent times.

Our away support completely destroys the point of this article.

I can only suggest that James Martin was a bit bored at the time of writing it.

I think Sky have had a lot to do with how the game is perceived these days, and how fans attitude to the game has changed. I have been going to Goodison before there was even Match of the Day never mind sky, and I think the constant exposure to wall-to-wall football has made fans demand success.

Sky have perpetrated the idea that if you are not in the top 4/5 clubs then you are deemed a failure. All their programmes reflect this attitude, from games selected for live viewing to shows like the Sunday supplement where every week the first hour is spent talking about Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal sometimes followed by Liverpool, Spurs and England.

So some fans now think if you're not in a Champions League position then you are failing and they demand change — either players, manager or board.

Also the obsession of the top 4/5 is manifested in transfer windows where a myriad of experts are only happy suggesting that, if a team outside of the top 4/5 have a really exciting player, then he needs to move to one of the top clubs to fulfill his potential.

The days of the fan with a rattle, scarf and bobble hat singing their songs have gone the way (sadly it has to be said) of most of the attitudes of the 50s and 60s.

There are places I remember all my life, though some have changed
Some for ever not for better
Some have gone and some remain
All these places had their moments
With lovers and friends I can still recall
Some are dead and some are living
In my life I've loved them all

Things change, people change. I think the Rattle and Bobble hat way of supporting your team seems, to some, in our older less uninhibited way, a bit OTT now... Did I really do that? Was that what I was? Was that me? ... nah but it was.

It could be the demise of the standing supporter and the anonymity that conveys. But give us something to shout about and we will.

I agree that it does appear quiet at some home games but this appears to be consistent with the performances we are watching. When Neville and Naismith consistently misplace passes or fail to control the ball, we have every right to moan and groan... What do you expect? They are Professional players — they should be able to trap a ball at this level.

The applause for making Osman a millionaire over the past 10 years was a good effort. I looked around and everyone was on their feet. I've not always been a fan of his and feel he has been very lucky to stay at a top club all this time... By the way — no-one in my job applauded me for grafting hard for 15 years for very little pay, so let's put this into perspective.

Naismith is crap — let's face reality! We have given him a chance, the season is half over, and he remains crap. Get over his derby goal, James — it doesn't make him a hero.

Moyes could change the mood of the fans instantly once in a while by changing things a lot earlier and actually having a go and giving other players a chance — it's up to the Manager and team to create the mood. I'm not going to cheer a pass that drops into Bullens Rd...

Is it just a case of too much football/football coverage these days? If every day was Christmas the magic would go.

Not too long ago, going to the match every one or two weeks was an EVENT, followed by MOTD which showed only 2 or 3 of the day's games. Apart from the odd back page article in the week that was it. The first few months of 85-86 had no football coverage whatsoever due to a dispute and it seemed to make match attendance that much more special.

Wall to wall Sky coverage 24/7 plus easy online access to every single live game has taken the shine of football these days. When you couple that with the disconnection between players and fans that exists today compared to 20-30 years ago it's not difficult to see how and why enthusiasm may have waned.

James, of course football has changed dramatically over the last 25 years. Can you possibly imagine supporters dissecting the club's accounts and discussing them over a pint even 10 years ago?

When the whole ground sat down to watch a match, it was bound to subdue the atmosphere. Imagine someone taking a piss next to you in the ground these days, they would probably be arrested!

As far a criticism of the playing staff & manager is concerned, you only have to look as far as Mr. Moyes's contract, or most of our first team's wages for the answer. If you are being paid £75k a week as Fellaini is, it gives the fans who pay some of this outrageous salary every right to let him know he should be tracking back!

I am sure if you were a top earner not performing, you would be in trouble with your paymasters!

Sky's non-stop analysis of how clubs, managers and players perform has magnified the spotlight on all concerned. Your definition of a supporter has long since died, and internet forums such as this & radio phone-in's etc, only reinforce the new breed of football supporter.

Paul (513) You are correct in that away support is superb but that is the case for any team. It is easier to get 3-4,000 hardened fans who have the passion to travel to generate sound when they are the underdog amongst so many home fans.

The difficulty is replicating that when the same 3-4,000 are dotted amongst 33,000 (maximum) other home supporters.

That is in no way a dig at season ticket holders, home only fans, etc. Simply a fact of life. Just as away supporters are often so vocal at our ground. As so many others have already mentioned in this thread, the only way to rectify it is for a collective change. Like anything en masse, it cannot be done unilaterally so who will be singing loudest on Wednesday, 30th against West Brom?...

Maybe at Everton the support is in a heightened predicament where by the only progress and improvement the club will get is by qualifying for the CL.

And the benefit for that comes next season.

We've been banging on the door for years, yet failure to qualify this season and we're looking at participation in late 2014 at the earliest.

And there is a feeling of now or never with this season as well. Every point is needed, and Moyes is right: the draws could cost us.

But there's a lot of matches to play and we're still looking good.

I think even I would feel able `put up with the Board` if they were paying me £4 million a year to finish in the top half of the table!

I have some sympathy for your points James and I too feel frustrated by the sense of entitlement that seems to pervade football these days, including at Everton. The whole booing and getting on the back of the latest scapegoat at home games says it all about some of our support.

However, it's still a minority however vocal and, as Paul points out, it is different at away games too.

As for the singing and noise thing, I'd personally rather sit and get engrossed in the game than go in for all the wacky Sky fan chanting and "whoever's whatever coloured army" nonsense that pervades many other team's support.

I don't get how that cliche of singing and chanting being "wacky Sky fan behaviour" has been allowed to enter the Evertonian consciousness over the past few years.

To me that is one reason why our support is so quiet in recent times — the mentality is against making the effort to get behind the team. To me, that's contrived, and even ignorant to our past.

Every new song tried, fans are trying to decide if it's acceptable to sing it, rather than just seeing if they like it — eg, nonsense like, "Is that smalltime to sing this?"; "Is it lower league?" and rubbish like that.

Barry #464 (just read it). I have to admit I read your posts and sometimes find myself getting annoyed. But I also find this one absolutely in synch with my own sentiments. A sad but realistic portrayal of where the game has come from and got to.

Cushions, Main Stand, any time during the early 70s and 80s? And they used to get a complimentary programme. Yes, times have certainly changed!

Good post, Barry Rathbone.

The atmosphere at Goodison is fucking abymal.

Has someone put the Park End on mute? It used to be bouncing. I had a season ticket in there a few seasons ago and bailed because I felt self conscious making any noise, actually getting into the game.

Everyone just.........................sits there.

Unless we play the angry resentful card the atmosphere...........well, there is no atmosphere.

Barry Rathbone.

Salient points.

The Prem is an all fur coat no knickers, gaudy, charmless pantomime and the game has been genetically engineered. Deliberate policy to price out a class or type of person.

Football grounds are now sterile places full of sheeple.

The Sky generation have been brought up to believe that only the BIG teams exist. It's better to watch Man Utd play anyone than a tight game between Everton and Arsenal say. Success is the be-all and end-all of the modern game.

For us old timers, watching the match on a Saturday was the social event of the week. I watched both clubs regularly in the 50s and early 60s and going and being at the match was the thing. Liverpool fans laughed out loud at Fred Morris and the dross they played in the old Second Division and we roared at the antics of those left-wingers in the early 60s.

We signed one called Kavanagh from the Southern League and in one match he lost the ball and turned to near where I was in the old paddock to have the ball thrown back, the spectator said something on the lines of "Kavanagh, you're crap!" The lad turned round and said, "What do you expect for £1500?" – yes, that was his fee.

Before Sky, you had to belong to a tribe and that tribe was based on where you live more than anything else. Nowadays, Man Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool have more fans in Norway than in their home towns. A crying shame.

Look at the FA Cup fixtures this coming weekend and notice which teams ESPN and ITV have decided to feature. Leeds v Tottenham, Stoke v Man City, Man Utd v Fulham, Brentford v Chelsea and Oldham v Gobbies.

I'm glad our game isn't on TV, however you would have thought that Bolton winning away at Sunderland and Everton's place in the league would have given the TV producers what they want. But no... they decide to give their attention to those clubs that have the most money. It's not as if these clubs don't get enough exposure already is it.

Goodson has always been quiet. If we don't get excited we don't fake it we keep quiet. We need a team or player or am injustice to get us going and that's always been the case. Kanchelskis, Ferguson even Graveson get the team going we're all willing Miralles to get fit or Jelavic to find form so we can get going.

I remember game against City when Fellaini mugged off Bellamy - I don't remember seeing that good play against Swansea I'm sorry to say it was boring and predictable and we've been a bit like that at home with the exception of Chelsea which was a really good game. I actually think you James are basing how we should react based on results which are quite good as opposed to performances at home in last 5 games which have been average with exception of Chelsea