Leg it, Heitinga!

I have to agree; there have been little spells in his career when he has looked imperious, the Lucas Niell partnership was one. When he 'talked' Duffy through his brief cameo was another. I think it's a case of when he's good he's very very good but when he's bad he's horrid (although his chest barge on Cole was cool).

If we take it as read that baring a calamity of player shortages Johnny H won't get a start all season, the thread is a bit redundant.

The real question and debate is, with Jags back where he belongs, what are Moyes's options for RB??

a) John Stones: I'd love to see it, decide now, spring it on the Mancs 30 mins before the kick off or whatever the deadline time is for team sheets. But I think it would be too far a walk on the wild side for Moyes.

b) Neville: if fully fit, has he got one decent game left in him? Will... CAN the old war horse respond to the call??? The way SAF switches it about, nobody, let alone me could name the the probable Man Utd team, but that doesn't matter, Capt. Pip is either up to whoever they put out or not... Moyes has previous for the tried and tested.

For all we know he may have been 'rotating' Neville with the Manc game in mind 99 / 100 when Neville is fit he starts.

c) Oviedo: I liked him when he came on; first 10 sec go right through the fella you're marking, let him know you're there...classic.

Not a natural right foot or too left footed, which ever way you like to call it. Don't have a problem with it, just like nobody seems to have a problem the the predominately rightfooter Pienaar on the left... it's the result over 90 mins that counts.

The percentage form pick is Neville... I hope you're right Davy, but almost anything has got to be better than Johnny H and Jags.

Callum and Derek, what can be said other than Agree, Agree, Agree. Can't see Stones being given a shift for a while, though. He's not been given his Moyes pensioner card yet.

On another subject. What's woken Victor up? He put in a top shift. Didn't he and Fella take their goals well?

I just watched Newcastle vs Chelski. Sissoko looks a good buy for the pittance Newcastle paid. Begs the question: if we were out looking for a striker (as reported), why weren't we looking at him as he is within our bargain basic price range?

Bob, excellent point regarding Anichebe. My man of the match. His goal was excellent. He just manhandled Ciaran Clark, turned and shot. There was another point in the match where he backed up about 10 yards in the final third with a man on his back as if the man wasn't there. I don't remember if we got anything from it but it's great to watch a centre forward boss a CB like that. His set up for Fellaini's first was simple but class as well.

Heitinga has looked terrible all year. There's no denying that. He was as good as Baines last year, though and earned his award. No denying that either. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure he was voted TW player of the year. Now we're all saying he wasn't that great. There's a good player in there, he's just in a bad run of form. Unfortunately, he can't be afforded the opportunity to find his form like Jelavic and Pienaar can when they're out of form. When Jela cocks up, we miss an opportunity. When Heitinga cocks up, it's a goal for the opponents. With that in mind, I hope he doesn't play again until [unless] he rediscovers his form.

Oviedo looked good but should anyone be asked to make a debut or play in an unfamiliar position at Old Trafford? Surely not. Neville for me. Definitely not Stones. Wouldn't complain at the sight of Oviedo.

Oviedo has never looked poor whenever he played.

Maybe he can cycle to Barcelona who obviously will still have him in their plans.

Heitinga has been awful. But first, I want to answer another point you raised..... .... the only decent thing he’s done this year, that winner at Bolton. When in all honesty, he shouldn’t have been on the pitch it was a negative substitution that got him on the field.

That was not a negative substitution. Apart from getting the goal, the substitution released our best striker - Fellaini - from the midfield and got him upfront. Putting our best striker upfront is not negative. It's somewhat blinkered of some fans not to see that, and sometimes booing needs to be apologised for.

Is it form with Heitinga or something else. A more attacking style seems to have teams play counter attack against us, and the guy is slow. On the other hand, he is making some basic mistakes and they are costing us. Whether the rumours of his looking elsewhere are true, or he just does not feel wanted by Moyes, or whatever, he is looking spent as an Everton player. I was hoping he would be out and Forren in last month, but it didn't happen.

And for Heaven's sake, how we needed a striker. Thank God for Fellaini, and a much improved Anichebe. Our only chance of 4th is no major injuries for final 13 games, a revived Jelavic, and Heitinga relegated to the bench - perhaps behind Duffy at least a few times. Get the message Johnny!!

You forget his performance at West Ham away. That was appalling too.

I agree with a lot of your comments, but I think we need to look a little bit deeper... Frankie Howard in goal is a good shot stopper but never moves off his line for crosses, you never hear him shout till after a goal has gone in.

Heitinga needs support from behind where the other players can make their own minds up. Howard does not trust Heintinga and vice versa.

Why is Duffy not getting a shout? Oviedo looked half-decent yesterday and can cross the ball but is always on the bench. Even Naismith at fullback instead of weakening the whole defence by moving Jagielka.

Why is it pretty much every Evertonian knows that Heitinga cannot cope with a big, physical centre forward - even the poorer ones - apart from Moyes.

I can understand the frustration, but this is yet another case of the manager making schoolboy errors in team selection.

As Jason (353) said, Oviedo has always looked decent when he's been on the pitch, and yet he is always the last resort choice. Moyes' insistence that he corrected his mistakes doesnt wash with me - he waited till we'd conceded 3 before he did anything. This is a recurring them with this manager...

It is at the stage where Everton have to score 2, 3 or even 4 to win matches because the defense can't restrict the opposition often enough to a clean sheet or just one goal. Yet, Moyes has bought a full back destined for the academy when money is tight because the Everton board are also.

Heitinga should never play for Everton again. How many goals has he given away this season? It's a fucking joke that he gets in our team... When he starts it's like being a goal down.

The problem for the manager is he has no alternatives.
In reality he needed money to do a newcastle and buy or loan in about four or five decent players.
Newcastle got Sissoko for £1.8 million and he looks worth far more.
He is not a striker as someone mentioned, he is an attacking midfield player who is strong, fast and follows up attacks.
We were too late and that is the boards fault not DM's.
Fer was scouited and watched for months so why wait until the last week before making a move for him.
There is absolutely no point in paying scouts to look abroad at players unless the board acts on their advice quickly.
The reality is, other clubs are going to give us a miss in the transfer stakes if we continue to cock the deals up by tardiness and attempting to alter the small print.
What happened to Ofoe ?
If he was good enough a few months ago has his form dipped since ?
Every player shows up injuries when scans are made and lets face it we have taken on many players on chance in the past.
Fer is playing regularly in Holland.
There was an article that we were interested in taking Scott Dann on loan from Blackburn.
He is a very good player but he has had a metacarsal op, a hamstring op and a ruptured testicle op. so why are we looking at him and cancelling the Fer deal ?
Fer is younger and has only had a routine op which is the norm for every player at some time or other.

I do not blame DM at all as he is so limited in choice it is a joke.
I do not for one minute think that Heitinga would have played if it had not been necessary.
Neville has a very limited shelf life left.
Duffy is not good enough
Oviedo is a maybe !!
Naismith not good enough
Who else do we have ?
Our youngsters are a pretty poor bunch.
Barkley is on loan elsewhere as is Magueye
Hibbert and Coleman both crocked

Never rated Heitinga. Didn't think he deserved player of the season. Has had some good games when we are bacls to the walls but cannot defend space and in one on ones. Slow, weak and inconsistent. Get rid.

You can't deny he was good last year. Unfortunately, that form was the exception - before that he was almost as bad as he is right now.

That said, I didn't see form like this coming... it's Jason Lee / Ade Akinbiyi form. The whole league is laughing at him.

Anyone read MOB's report? It's a cracker!

All I can say is that if Heitinga keeps getting picked, Duffy must be crap!

Talking specifically about the Villa game. Why was Heitinga given the job of marking Benteke when it's obvious he is stronger and faster and the spearhead of their attack? Why wasn't that job given to Distin who I feel would have made a better attempt at trying to stop him for both the first and third goals.

As pointed out with others, playing Heitinga at CB and Jagielka at RB is damaging two positions as that is not where Jags is best.

As for the Man U game, who will play RB, probably Pip but given that SAF knows him inside out I'm sure they will be more than primed for that.... too much to ask for the new boy to show he's got it... can we put both Hibbert and Coleman in and say that two halves make a whole?

Agree
He is there to defend and didn't do his job
Jagielka is a better centre half no doubt
Heitinga is a good footballer but not tough enough for the English game
However the manager should know this by now, and should never have picked him to mark Benteke.
Please don't pick him against that big grock Oldham have got up front

Moyes baffles me, playing Jags right back and Heitinga cb is just plain stupid. Johnny played there for A Madrid and Holland. He deserves booing.

We missed a big trick with Jack Butland, I've been harping on about this kid since he was at Cheltenham. Tell me how can we not afford £4M for a keeper who by all accounts is going to be top class and would secure the position for years to come? Instead, we have the man I hate more than any other Everton Player — Tim Howard, or The Bluffer, as a fan beside me called him one day.

"Look at Howard," he told me, "shouting like a mad man in them goals and nobody even listening to him. Shit at kicking, shit on crosses, poor decision-making ..." I could go on....

I HATE HIM

Derek Thomas it is now five days since I asked you to give me one good aspect of Heitinga's game, still waiting.You said I had the vision of Mr Magoo, well every ex pro and TV analyst this weekend and everyone on this forum seem to agree with me. He says he played in a World Cup Final, Joey Jones won the European Cup with the RS. Every good team carries a shit player, as did Holland on this occasion, and they get humiliated by Spain.

Oh my god... lets all jump on the bandwagon shall we.

Why had Anichebe finally woken up? Hmm maybe he started to wear earplugs so he didn't have to hear the boos from fickle fans with no talent of their own.

Is that what they call a 'pearl of wisdom'?

Nail on head David, when a player plays badly it is all down to the nasty-wasty fans and nothing to do with anything else. Therefore, the fans should hang their heads in shame if they are ever tempted to voice an opinion on anything to do with their clubs.

Submit a counter argument if you feel passionate enough to comment, don't just berate others for having their say.

Personally, I think Heitinga can still play a role for us until he eventually moves on. Just pick games carefully to make sure he is unlikely to end up exposed repeatedly against someone bigger, stronger and faster. In between those games he needs to spend most of his time bulking up in the gym and doing sprinting sessions.

He hasnt had a good season granted, but then if you are named player of the year last year in your preferred position, then arguably, you would expect to start in that position again this season.

Must've been a kick in the nuts to be benched again at the begining of the season in the knowledge that each time he does get on, very little (other than injuries) will prevent Moyes from dropping him again for the next game.