Anyway, I was looking at the other top 20 England goalscorers while checking on my bet and I was very impressed with the goals-to-game ratios of former Everton players such as Gary Lineker and Tommy Lawton. Unfortunately Dixie Dean didn’t quite get on the list although his goals-to-games ratio is the best, scoring more goals than games played (18 goals in 16 appearances).
I was wondering if anyone managed to see or know of anyone who saw Tommy Lawton and Dixie Dean play and who was the best? I know Dixie is known as the greatest but a large chunk of Tommy Lawton’s career was lost due to the outbreak of the 2nd World War so who knows how good he could have been? Tommy hardly seems to get a mention on here, it is always Dixie Dean and Alan Ball. Is Lawton deserving of more respect?
Top England Goalscorers
Goalscorers with an equal number of goals are ranked with the highest to lowest goals-per-game ratio.
# Name Career Goals Caps Position Goals per game 1 Bobby Charlton 1958–1970 49 106 MF 0.4623 2 Gary Lineker 1984–1992 48 80 FW 0.6000 3 Jimmy Greaves 1959–1967 44 57 FW 0.7719 4 Michael Owen 1998–2008 40 89 FW 0.4494 5 Wayne Rooney 2003– 33 79 FW 0.4102 6 Nat Lofthouse 1950–1958 30 33 FW 0.9091 7 Alan Shearer 1992–2000 30 63 FW 0.4762 8 Tom Finney 1946–1958 30 76 FW 0.3947 9 Vivian Woodward 1903–1911 29 23 FW 1.2609 10 Steve Bloomer 1895–1907 28 23 FW 1.2174 11 David Platt 1989–1996 27 62 MF 0.4355 12 Frank Lampard 1999– 27 94 MF 0.2796 13 Bryan Robson 1981–1989 26 90 MF 0.2888 14 Geoff Hurst 1966–1971 24 49 FW 0.4898 15 Stan Mortensen 1947–1953 23 25 FW 0.9200 16 Tommy Lawton 1938–1948 22 23 FW 0.9565 17 Peter Crouch 2005–2010 22 42 FW 0.5281 18 Mick Channon 1972–1977 21 46 FW 0.4565 19 Kevin Keegan 1972–1982 21 63 FW 0.3333 20 Martin Peters 1966–1974 20 67 MF 0.2985
Competitive England Goalscorers
Goalscorers with an equal number of goals are ranked with the highest to lowest goals per game ratio.
# Name Career Goals Caps Position Goals per game 1 Michael Owen 1998–2008 25 53 FW 0.4717 2 Wayne Rooney 2003– 24 51 FW 0.4706 3 Gary Lineker 1984–1992 22 40 FW 0.5500 4 Alan Shearer 1992–2000 21 31 FW 0.6774 5 Frank Lampard 1999– 18 54 MF 0.3333 6 Bobby Charlton 1958–1970 14 29 MF 0.4828 7 Bryan Robson 1981–1989 14 43 MF 0.3259 8 Steven Gerrard 2000– 14 61 MF 0.2295 9 Geoff Hurst 1966–1971 13 18 FW 0.7222 10 Kevin Keegan 1974–1981 13 27 MF 0.4819 11 David Beckham 1996–2009 13 68 MF 0.1912 12 David Platt 1989–1996 12 29 MF 0.4138 13 Tony Woodcock 1978–1986 11 23 FW 0.4783 14 Jermain Defoe 2004– 11 29 FW 0.3793 15 Paul Scholes 1997–2004 11 39 MF 0.2820 16 Peter Crouch 2005–2010 10 21 FW 0.4762http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_national_football_team
Reader Comments (39)
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2 Posted 07/02/2013 at 08:05:28
They beat us 4-1 and Lawton won every ball in the air and still terrorized our defence.
I never saw Dean so its hard to compare them.
Lawton was good on the floor but not built as robustly as Dean.
I also saw Matthews, Finney and a sunderland great Shackleton.
I always remember Shack running rings around Cyril Lello who had the job of marking him.
They were all great ball players and the crowd paid to watch them as they were fantasic entertainers.
Our best at the time was Nobby Fielding who played in a pretty poor everton team which at times had Catterick at centre forward.
Catterick was pretty limited Im afraid.
Billy Liddell was one of the best ever Liverpool players and would have been a big star in any era.
He was very fast, direct (like Bale) and had a ferocious shot.
Every era in football has thrown up great players, I was lucky enough to see Pele when he was 17 years old, Florian Albert, Di Stefano, Puskas, Eusebio and Cruyf.
Unfortunately the media see football as only beginning with the premier league but the best ever national sides were the Brazil of 1970 and the Hungarians of the 50's.
Tackling has become a lost art.
Only a few of the present day footballers have entertained me as much as they did in the old first division.
Bale, Messi, Maradona and Ronaldo are standouts.
3 Posted 07/02/2013 at 08:32:26
4 Posted 07/02/2013 at 09:11:22
I like you saw all the names you mention except I didnt see Tommy Lawton, my Dad rated Lawton but in his opinion Dean was the better of the 2. For me Bobby Charlton was the best English player I ever saw he scored some fantastic goals and to this day I still don't know whether he was left or right footed.
Maybe time plays tricks but for me the players of the 60s was the most accomplished group were today I think more emphasis is placed on athleticism than skill, and thats why I think the players who played in the 60s were overall more skillful
5 Posted 07/02/2013 at 09:45:16
6 Posted 07/02/2013 at 10:34:10
The Title winning sides, I have all 4 in a photo
Deadheat 69-70; 84-85
2nd ( only by a nose ) 62-63.
3rd (by a neck ) 86-87
The only way to settle the deadheat would (* moves from horseracing to snooker metaphor ) would be to play the best of say 41 frames. The 70 team would score more maximum breaks but the added bit of mongrel in the 85 team would, IMO result in 21-20 to 85
7 Posted 07/02/2013 at 11:02:11
We played Brazil in the group stages and lost but it was very close and that was even with Geoff Astle at CF who missed a couple of sitters. That was in conditions that eminently suited Brazil rather than England and with the England team subjected to efforts to keep them awake all night and a trumped up theft charge against Moore. They were a great side which like the wonderful Everton side of the time collapsed soon after. They were a league above the side that won the WC in 1966.
8 Posted 07/02/2013 at 11:14:18
I think it was in the 1/4 final that we had 2 chances, one a ' Ball ' type chance that fell to Astle and one an ' Astle ' type chance that fell to Ball.
Taking off Charlton too early did us no favours either.
What if Westie HAD decided to go
9 Posted 07/02/2013 at 11:17:38
The 1970 World Cup was so inspiring - in our primary school playground we started doing the sign of the cross after scoring, as a homage to Jairzinho & Co! I still can't believe we lost against Germany in the quarter final. It was one of those defeats - like the first cup final defeat against Lpool - that I don't think I have ever shaken off. If only Gordon West hadn't have pulled out of the squad! He'd have played instead of Bonetti (who had a nightmare) and we might have won.
10 Posted 07/02/2013 at 13:28:53
Yes it was a fabulous competition and Brazil recognised that England were their greatest danger. We lost the group game to Brazil but they were just unfinished business that I really believe we'd have beaten in the final. Losing to Germany (also a great side) was possibly the biggest disappointment I've seen in football, a game we'd won easily and then somehow lost by underestimating them. Decided by an injury to our main goalkeeper and a dreadful performance by his replacement. What a time to be a fan then though when Everton and England were so brilliant. It's hard being a Rose Tinted Evertonian now but I'm still positive and it's possible that the national team are also in a resurgent phase.
11 Posted 07/02/2013 at 13:56:26
I know a lot of people on TW don't care about England football team, but I do!
12 Posted 07/02/2013 at 14:01:55
13 Posted 07/02/2013 at 14:26:35
By then Pele was shot and Brazil ere no match for Hungary or Eusebios Portugal.
It was a shame to see Pele kicked out of the game.
Incidently Styles and a few other England players would have been sent off every week nowadays :0)
I always thought of Young as very similar to Tostao of Brazil and Vernon was like Rush.
A perfect duo as far as I was concerned..But they were Careys men and the Catt got rid as he did with Collins who was another great.
Almost every team in the top flight had at least one player worth the entrance fee.
I much preferred the old first division to the present set up where money is the B all and end all.
DM is doing a fine job of making ends meet but he is like mother Hubbard, the cupboard is always bare !!
14 Posted 07/02/2013 at 15:00:06
Anyone doubting watch the Brazil 4th goal in the world cup final against Italy.
15 Posted 07/02/2013 at 15:07:42
16 Posted 07/02/2013 at 17:17:13
The most memorable England player I ever saw at Goodison Park was Horatio Carter with the silver mop of hair. Playing for Derby County he ripped us to shreds, continually cutting through our defence like Lionel Messi. Even today the memory is still vivid.
As for the best England player. I wouldn't even try. So many good ones in different eras......and some, like Sir Stan, had their best years before the end of WW2....and let's not forget the best player Bobby Charlton ever saw, the late great Duncan Edwards who never had the chance to shine. The list grows longer.
17 Posted 07/02/2013 at 18:01:31
18 Posted 07/02/2013 at 19:21:43
As a duo Vernon and Young were simply brilliant and they didn't weigh twenty stone between them in an era when skill was often physically intimidated.
Catterick sold Collins, Vernon and Ball far too quickly.
I did see a few minutes of Pele in the 66 world cup before Portugal kicked him out, otherwise I only saw him on television.
Modern footballers are fitter and the game is much quicker , the equipment is totally different and the pitches are marvellous. Remember the army of "forkers" who came on at half time to try to get rid of the water on the pitch, but to be honest when I want o think of football heaven , it's 1962-3 and Gabriel, Young, Vernon and company are strutting their stuff and I'm watching them from my "spec" in the old paddock.
19 Posted 07/02/2013 at 20:26:09
20 Posted 07/02/2013 at 21:50:44
They ripped us apart at Wembley with Hidegkuti and Puskas.
The Dutch side were ttremendous but Brazil were like the harlem globetrotters of football.
They entertained but also won trophies.
Their defence was not that great but they always scored more than the opposition.
When they beat Italy they ripped them apart and Italy were reknowned for their defence.
Everyone has their own particular favourites but I fell in love with Brazil when they won the world cup in 1958 with a 17 year old Pele and Garrincha with the wonky legs.
They have slipped from grace in recent years and their football is no where near as fluent.
21 Posted 07/02/2013 at 22:22:06
I don't know if it's true of other Evertonians of my Dad's era, but he did seem to resent Lawton for leaving Everton for Chelsea. I formed the opinion that he considered Dean to be a true Evertonian whereas Lawton just went wherever the money was.
He was also critical of Lawton in later years, when some years after he was given a testimonial by Everton in 1972, he was again in the news as being in financial difficulty.
My Dad was a real die-hard Blue and was perhaps a little unfair on Lawton, although he did acknowledge that he was a great player, just not as good, in his book, as Dean, and certainly, not as great an Evertonian.
22 Posted 07/02/2013 at 22:42:02
In those days football was so different that it was possible to cheer England on. A cap meant something. Does anyone remember the "Osgood for England" chants that Alf steadfastly ignored?
23 Posted 07/02/2013 at 23:13:34
24 Posted 08/02/2013 at 04:14:56
25 Posted 08/02/2013 at 09:57:24
I totally agree. There were quite a few great players around at that time but at his best I wouldn't have swapped him for any of them, not even Best. I remember with clarity how depressed I was for weeks after he was sold to Arsenal and the first time I saw him playing for them on the old MOTD I felt sick to my stomach.
Mind you, he was never the same player for them and I remain convinced it was because his heart wasn't in it for them as much as it was for us. I went to Goodison to sign the book of condolensces and see his white boots just after he died and a 61 year old man....me....was crying! Stupid isn't it?
My best two memories of him? The FA Cup goal against the shite but even more so ( for me) his first game for us away at Fulham when he set the game alight and scored the winner. For me it was a greater memory even than the shite goal because as good as he had been in the World Cup Final that performance more than any other told me we had signed a cracker. A truly magnificent player who would have been just as good in today's game.
Once Alan Ball has touched you nothing is ever the same!
26 Posted 08/02/2013 at 10:10:17
Let's be honest, it's all very subjective. Brazil were wonderfully exotic but, as a European, Holland played a type of football I could imagine playing myself - if only I were a million times better! I imagined myself as Johnny Rep, knocking in the goals - then, after the match, living a vaguely bohemian lifestyle that involved soft drugs, hard rock, progressive politics, sexually liberated women and... I don't know, a profusion of tulips.
To this day, I prefer a dynamic Northern European style of football to the tippy-tappy Mediterranean variety. I'm not a tough guy, but I find the current Spanish trend for playing nice little triangles, etc, just a wee bit... girly.
27 Posted 08/02/2013 at 10:32:44
However, as a youngish man he has probably never had the opportunity to see Ray Wilson. For me he was the best left back ever to play for England and he and Cohen were the first full backs ( In British football anyway) to be expected to get forward and supply crosses in Ramsey's team of 'wingless wonders'.
28 Posted 08/02/2013 at 10:41:21
I love alternative comedy.
29 Posted 08/02/2013 at 11:03:49
30 Posted 08/02/2013 at 11:12:32
I have to say, much as I dislike the bloke, that Gary Neville was an excellent RB. He just did the job, no fussing. He's definitely the best RB I've ever seen. I don't necessarily want a full back to be a supremely talented footballer. I want him to tackle well, show good positional sense and - now and again - get forward and put some decent crosses in. In other words, Tony Hibbert - but better!
31 Posted 08/02/2013 at 13:42:45
A couple of good observations, there, the Holland side WERE a great team to watch and, yes, the current craze for the Spain "tippy tappy" sort of football IS a bit girly at times..... you sort of want Norman Hunter to hoof one of those midfielders into Row Z and get on with it. I still prefer the Brazil 1970 side though.
But the most accurate comment , for men of, shall we say, a decent vintage, is the proliferation of "sexually liberated women" available in Holland. Not PC, I know, but who gives a fuck? (apart from them....)
Dave Roberts @533. Good shout re Ray Wilson, some people are quick to state that Cole is the greatest etc., without having SEEN the greatest. Ray Wilson. And as modest a man as Cole is arrogant.
32 Posted 08/02/2013 at 15:40:18
We got talking to the arl fellas (all Villa and Birmingham fans) and we asked them the same question (well, more generic), 'who was the best player you ever saw?'
A fantastic, informed and teary eyed few hours later the overwhelming agreement was that the best player any of them ever saw, was ... tar raa ... Duncan Edwards. It was a memorable night making friends with them wise old dudes, and we even got invited to the lock in after closing hours. Duncan Edwards, RIP.
33 Posted 08/02/2013 at 22:21:21
34 Posted 08/02/2013 at 22:07:03
Joe Mercer gave Bowles a cap or two so he would've gone for the less predictable Osgood option.
As has been stated before the 70 England team was a better unit than the 66. But while Charlton was 4 years older so was Beckenbaur... but in a good way, The Germans had improved even more, plus they had Muller.
England were masters of the current European International method. But game was just beginning to change in a slightly less defensive, more expansive way. The Germans had the beginnings of this going for them, as future years would show. England had peaked but Ramsey didn't know it, again, as future years would show.
Italy are and were for us always hard to beat, so the would be semi Vs them would not have been a walk over.
I doubt that it would've been a 7-goal thriller like the real semi-final
Brazil, always had the talent (and it must be said that talent deflected the eye from a ruthless, nay dirty streak that would've shamed Leeds at their worst and they still do that stuff, but people seem to have a blind eye to it... it's Brazil... wow, look at the quality.)
Any way Brazil, 1970 the year it all came together (a bit like Everton in 1970) The best all-round side on the planet.
Could England have beat them, they didn't in the group... well they might, maybe, once, but only if Brazil were not at the top of their game for some reason and we were.
1970; (the odd future high spot and hand of god notwithstanding) the peak of English and for that matter Brazilian and World Football.
35 Posted 09/02/2013 at 09:06:25
But I'm really shocked no-one has mentioned the Brazil side of 1982 widely acclaimed to be the best side never to win the World Cup. They couldn't defend to save their lives but going forward they were unbelievable. The names just roll off the tongue: Zico, Socrates, Falcoa et al (Why do Brazilians only ever have one name?) a truly great side...
But I'm in agreement with most: the England side of 1970 was superb and would have probably gone on to reach the final only for some poor substitutions and some shit goalkeeping by Bonnetti, who was a great goalie. And they weren't helped by the stifling conditions either, but some great memories there, lads.
36 Posted 09/02/2013 at 10:59:53
37 Posted 09/02/2013 at 16:21:47
They were discussing the composition of the stamps issued by the Royal Mail depicting players from the four Home Nations. The lady sports presenter suggested Dixie Dean merited inclusion. Bill Turnbull with a puzzled look on his face went "Dixie Dean"? – whereupon the lady with an equal look of disgust explained who he was.
Considering that show and presenters are resident in Salford, I am astounded he did not know about Dixie.
38 Posted 09/02/2013 at 17:18:20
39 Posted 13/02/2013 at 21:15:29
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1 Posted 07/02/2013 at 03:09:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqXM9AFL_10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1YuqyORRAM