Last Days in the Bunker... again?

To use a Kenwright saying - 24/7...........EFC is a joke.

The cup is Moyes lifeline but if Oldham or more likely Wigan turn us over that's his lot - Walter and Boro reincarnated.

After 11 yrs we want change, a return to pure football. To give the kids a chance, to rest players out of form, to see some players are not good enough and to bring the age of the squad down. Moyes wants Neville for another year... Why???

Basically, only results `do for` managers and with the team in 6th position and there still being talk of Europe, Moyes in under absolutely no pressure. All our griping (and I`m one of the worst!) will go unheard (and unread) unless and until we suffer a string of defeats from now until kingdom come... and what true Evertonian wants that to happen?

No,I expect Davey & Bill to soon agree on a roll-over type contract which will allow the manager to leave if he gets a better offer. Then, each of us will be faced with the decision whether or not to renew our tickets.
And, of course, most will!

You've really had to conjure up the most tenuous of connections just to connect Moyes to Smith, Gavin, and does any real criticism a disservice.

And you talk about Paul Gregg like you know him. But if you are honest, you have never even met the person, and the only things you know of his relationship with Bill Kenwright is what you have read on this website.

So in total 4 wins, 4 draws and 2 losses. Not exactly doomsday stuff!!

Think people comparing Moyes to Smith must have very short memories or more likely a real axe to grind. Maybe we are in a bad rut but the standard of football and selection of players simply does not compare at all!

If he gets an offer that will provide him with a platform based on cash to spend and a chance CL he will be off. If he doesn't he will sign again. I am concerned with the suggestion that he will do this on a rolling one year contract. That smacks of an on-going lack of commitment from DM and related uncertainty for players and fans.

I see a major re-build required in the summer; players will be sold and new players will arrive, but surely the decisions should be made by a manager with a long term commitment to the Club ? I don't see a year to year contract cutting it in this regard.

If Moyes leaves at the end of the season, his squad/first XI will look a hell of a lot different and more importantly miles better than the one he inherited. To compare the last days of Smith is just a joke. Moyes came in and we expected relegation and to start again, we stayed off relegation and haven't looked like being relegated since. The new manager will be expected at least a top half finish every season, not just save us from relegation, as was Moyes' s first job.

Gavin, to be fair, the football we've played for much of this season and back half of last season has not been "woeful anti-football dross,", compared by Wenger, for instance , as excellent and likened by Jol to Barcelona. Moyes biggest faults, to my mind, is his woeful use of substitutes and his habit of slipping back to his old negative mindset but to say that we have been as negative as you make out is untrue.

Furthermore, to try and absolve the players of their fair share of the blame is somewhat disingenuous. True, Moyes picks the team but if the board had provided some financial backing in January instead of looking for a way NOT to buy Fer we may have had more quality to select from.

All the shouts on here for fringe players to be given a chance backfired against Leeds, but, for some reason, playing them was still Moyes fault. Damned if he does; fucking damned if he doesn't.

If Jelavic misses a sitter I don't know how that can be Moyes fault. If Distin makes a bad tackle that is also not Moyes fault.

If we lose against Oldham, I'd say it will be the straw that breaks the camels back.

Whilst Bill is a wate of skin, Moyes' tenure has occured at a time of record TV receipts and affluence, which has allowed him something that Smith did not have. The ability to wheel and deal.

And Tony, how old are Distin, Neville, Howard, Hibbert, Osman, Baines, Jagielka.....etc?

Also, I was going to say, Gibson, injury prone, Oviedo, is he going to be good enough etc, etc, but you'll come back with something, then I'll reply, and then.......

There isn't a player in the league that doesnt make mistakes but to make them week in and week out and still play IS most definitely down to the manager selecting them over an alternative.

My bug bear with Moyes is the same old failings that appear when we seem to have something in our sights. Go back to the 'Magnificent 7th' (gulp!) season and even then we were fourth with six games left. We lost to all those around us plus a woeful display against Fulham and ultimately came short . Insert the majority of big cup and Euro games and what threatens to happen this season ,then nothing seems to have changed.

Ray Roche, it's all very well having great form at the end of a season, but these great runs of forms have come when we are so far back after very poor starts we have not threatened the top spots. The form at the start of this was great, but again when the pressure to deliver is on, the tactics and selection turn to tripe again.

Now, even to finish top 6, we will need to get results at grounds we never win at. I pray he proves me wrong and wins us the cup, but I am not holding my breath.

Moyes has had eleven years since and must be judged on that. We have played some great stuff in the last twelve months yet now it seems to me to have an end of days feel to it. I feel that the best times for Moyes at Everton have passed yet we were so nearly there. I believe that the appalling transfer window has sealed it for Moyes, Everton and the supporters. It just feels like the end of an era.

This year we have oldham and wigan at home to reach the semis in fa cup.. And mark my words Moyes will fuck up one of those games... It happens every year!! Most overrated manager in the league . Bring on Roberto Martinez .!!

If I was a Villa supporter I'd love to have Moyes instead of Lambert because he would without doubt keep them safe. If I was an Arsenal fan I wouldn't want him ahead of Wenger.

Gavin, blending young and old IS the way to blood young players ...if they are good enough. I would like to see youth given it's chance as much as anyone on here but there appears to be a question mark regarding some of our younger players. Duffy, Barkley, Vellios....give them a chance, please, but not all at once, as some posters on TW seem to want..
I think that the Fer fiasco was never going to happen, BK didn't have £8m to spend and if we did , why not by a couple of players in the same way as Newcastle managed to do? And £3m on Stones? It's players who can do a job NOW that we need. You are bang on the money about the multi-tasking, square peg business, though.
"but to make them week in and week out and still play IS most definitely down to the manager selecting them over an alternative. " True, but I'm struggling to think of viable alternatives who wouldn't bring down a dogs abuse on the managers head if they don't perform.

Chris Corn

I think everyone has EXPECTED us to have a good ending to the season in the way that we have in recent years, but that is an unreasonable expectation given the paucity of the squad.

Zaid, I agree.

It is only since Kenwright bought the club that Everton fans truly fear that the likes of Oldham or Wigan at Goodison will end our FA Cup hopes, my god how far can this club fall from grace without losing its top flight status.

Does DM pick players due to where they appear on the payroll or does he pick them on ability? From where I'm sat it looks increasingly that it is how much the players receive in wages that determines whether they make the team or not.

No wonder the players are such a friendly and happy bunch at Finch Farm, pick up loads of dosh, give halfhearted performances, don't break sweat and no pressure to do anything but to survive in the top-half and if you can look the best player in the team, you might get even more money from a club who play in the CL. All aided and abetted by a manager who's more interested in feathering his own nest rather than sending out a team that truly represents the spirit and desires of those who pay to watch this once great club of ours.

DM's tactics are as simple as this... Don't concede too many & then lose or draw it can be called as a closely fought battle. Right now I have as much respect for him as BK who pocket OUR money from gate receipts & merchandise.

It still boils my piss every time I see Rooney play. If he'd been handled correctly we could've seen him in Blue for a couple of more seasons & got a bigger return. But no DM couldn't get him to lick his arse & BK saw the £ signs. Between those 2 we lost one of the greatest players to ever put on that shirt & to push things along & force the issue all sorts of underhanded rumour mongering & press manipulation went on.

Strikers... I can think of 3 ( present included ) being absolutely ruined by DM. We'll never get another decent one again, regardless of money whilst DM's at the helm. He is consistent in destroying their self belief & skill.

Does any one have that stat for Wally Smith's riegn?

I reckon no other manager in the game would survive at a club as big as Everton with such a dismal win ratio.Not unless the said manager was in cahoots with the chairman and the skulduggery that goes with it.

They got bummed off Liverpool last week after dropping 6 of his regulars.

Plus, they were pretty shite and didn't try to play football when we played them.

I don't mind Laudrup but don't try and make him out to be some amazing manager after 7 months. He could end up like the other flavours of the month that usually gets talked about on here.

Laudrup has just won a trophy with Swansea that our club's never won. Amongst others he beat Liverpool at home, then Chelsea in a two leg semi and then twatted Bradford 5-0 in the final to do it.

You may challenge that with he the League Cup is Mickey Mouse, that no one takes I seriously and Bradford are cannon fodder but if its that easy how come we weren't there today?

Maybe he might not win another thing but hes already won more in one season than most do in a career and you can't take that away from him. Especially in he day he's done it.

A genuine top drawer World Class player, a very good manager it would appear and a thoroughly decent bloke to boot. Hats off to him. Well done.

94 times out of 167 wins in the Premier League.
54 wins by a two goal margin
19 wins by a Three goal margin or better the highest being a six goal margin against Sunderland (7-1)

80 defeats out of 129 have been by a single goal margin
27 defeats by a two goal margin
22 defeats by a three goal margin or higher the worst being Arsenal (0-7)

120 games have ended all sqaure

Total PL games played equals 416

Hope that's of use to whoever it was that wanted to know.

4 games without a win and everyone fills their pants and calls for the manager's head.

Really, that's all that's happening.

The previous ten games was W6 D3 L1. All a bit of a hullabaloo!

I think Laudrup would be a fine replacement should Moyes leave but lets not forget earlier in the season we beat Swansea on their own ground 3-0 and when they came here Laudrup played 10 men behind the ball. So would be interesting if he was our manager and employed this tactic how the T/W posters would react.

It could be said that Moyes was lucky beating Liverpool Chelsea and Man Utd in those cups.

Liverpool were reduced to ten men and Gerrard went off injured. Chelsea were beaten on pens after a last-minute free kick got extra time. As for Man Utd... That was pens against their reserves without having a shot.

Moyes has lost in cups to Shrewsbury, Brentford, Oldham, Leeds and Blackburn,

He won't sign a contract... He shouldn't be offered one.

I think the comparison is a bit of a joke to be honest. Smith was an awful manager for us, and Moyes transformed the side to one competing near the top.

But I agree with your sentiment that time may be up. This is the first time for me, that I might want Moyes out. His tactics frustrated me beyond belief on Saturday, I still didnt understand not taking Naismith earlier in the second half.

I think bringing Martinez in would be a breath of fresh of air, and I genuinely think Moyes cant do much more, he's taken us as far as we can go. I do think he's the best manager we've had for a while, and despite obvious short comings, he has been a great manager for us. But we need a change, and we need to move on. So thanks for everything Mr Moyes.

Things here are just desperately stale at the moment and we can't simply have more of the same thrill-free fare for the foreseeable future. Time to take a calculated decision to make changes - but one I fear we will not see.

In future annals of EFC the DM era will probably have a fast forward speed button.

Round: "Boss, I've come up with this new system, it's fucking foolproof."

Moyes: "Come on then, let's hear it."

Round: "We play a ten-man defensive wall and put that fella with the big curly wig upfront on his own and smash the ball up to him from the kick-off."

Moyes: "You mean Fellaini?"

Round: "That's him..."

Moyes: "Why is it foolproof?"

Round: "Well, if we nick one, we bring him back to defend as well; I've called it a Bomber Formation."

Moyes: "Fucking brilliant, that, Stevie boy... them Oldham bastards won't know what's hit em! Get the lads together..."

Half Moyes' problem is he mopes about like an undertaker who's lost his "new coffins" brochure no wonder heads go down and the white flag comes out when things don't go our way.

We beat Liverpool fairly, they got a player sent off for a reason justly, its not luck. It doesn’t matter if a goal was scored in the last minute against Chlesea or the first minute like in the final, the game is 90 mins plus extra time, otherwise I could say Norwich and Oldham wer lucky because they scored in extra time, you create you own luck. The only time luck comes into it is when a referee misses something or makes a poor decision, because it is a matter of opinion rather than fact. And if you look at the Man Utd team that finished the semi against us you will see its probably their strongest team at the time.

You mention the lower league side that Moyes has lost to but Ferguson and Wenger have also lost to lower league sides and so have a lot of other good managers.

And haven't Ferguson and Wenger made up for the odd defeat with a trophy or two? Fergie won THREE in the space of a fortnight!

There are things you can commend Moyes for, but being a winner will never be one of them.

I have backed the manager (apart from last years anfield derby), up until now asserting that the biggest threat to this club is our shithouse of a chairman but the repetitive nature of the tactical failings, poor substitutions and dropped points, have taken their toll on me. I've had enough.

Moyes still has plenty of years a head of him to win something, every manager would be a loser with your mentality, they would have thrown in the towel a long time ago, they all have to start somewhere. Just look at Harry Rednapp.

Moyes will have success and win some trophies, I have no doubt about that, but it will most likley be in Germany unless he is given a top 4 job here.

Could anyone on here see us going to Chelsea and winning 2 - 0? No, I thought not. Derby games are a totally different ball game completely but we don't go there and win, do we? Ever.

Laudrup has done magnificent winning a trophy in his first season but face facts I've never seen a side like Swansea park the bus like they did at Goodison this season. They only came out of their half once all game. Yes, they defended brilliantly, but imagine the uproar if we had done that. Let's all not big-up Laudrup too much until he's managed in this league for 2 or 3 seasons — and lets not forget who they played in the final today — a 4th-tier side.

Even Wenger has strugled to win a trophy for nearly a decade, almost as long as Moyes has been manager of Everton, he has also suffered because of the Man City billions its no disgrace to Wenger or Moyes.

We are not moving forward. The same mistakes are being made. We need a change in my opinion. The board are a disgrace, but don't forget, Moyes has the "greatest chairman in the world".

His worst season was 2003-04 with a mere 39 points.

So if he manages to get the equivalent of 18 wins and 2 draws he has hit his average. Five more wins from the remaining fixtures this season will see him beat last seasons total of 56 points.

Colin I dissagree, some people think this is the best team Everton have had in the last 10 years. We have brought in Mirallas, Gibson, Jelavic, Oveido, and Gibson which is an improvement on last season with Bily and an ageing Cahill and an underachieving injury prone Rodwell. I think we are still moving forward we just need to add more to the squad and have greater depth and quality to maintain the standards set at the start of the season.

Knowbody thinks Moyes isn't to blame for anything, of course he is, but the players also have to take some blame and the board. The fact is we are more or less where most would have expected us to be in the league at the start of the season. If we were falling out of the top 10 and out of the FA cup I would understand the criticism and the MOB.

Enough said: and that's why everyone is so pissed off.

It is both Moyes and the players faults yet only Moyes gets the shit.

Moyes is at 41% where's Wallly?...

The two big question marks I have over DM are his use of fringe players (too cautious, sticking with his 'old faithfuls' even when they are running out of steam?) and his close relationship with BK (too close, putting up with failure to conduct critical business rather than really forcing change?).

If the answers to the questions posed in the brackets is affirmative, then there is no real hope that the situation you think is nearly in our grasp will come to fruition unless there is a change in one of the executive positions, and it would amount to some level of failure by DM.

I thought we would probably finish 6th or 7th at the start of the season and maybe have a bit of a cup run. Now, after that great start I must admit to hoping we could get top 5 and above but it doesn't look like it's going to happen but we are hardly underachieving in my eyes. If we can beat Oldham and Wigan, it will be another semi-final and the decent cup run will have been matched (obviously if we lose to either of those two though it becomes a failure).

I guess it all comes down to expectations. If you expected top 4, you will be disappointed, if you expected 10th you will be happy. For me, the fact we are (as a whole) unhappy with the club's position just goes to show how far our expectations have come since Moyes's arrival 11 years ago. Nobody mentioned European qualification and/or cup runs then!

Moyes is stale as a dead animal
In the last days of Smith so was he

Moyes is clueless how to change a game other than defend at all costs, repeating that dirge even when it doesn't work more often than not
In the last days of Smith all he did was pack the field with defenders

Kenshite claims Moyes is a close friend he is in constant touch with
Kenshite made the same claim about Smith but when it came to the crunch over saving his own arse over Smith BK barely missed a beat in bladdering him (he did the same with Gregg - get the M.O. yet??????)

Eventually Ian, the mood swing of even Kenshite's and Moyes' sheeple like your self will sway enough to want a change and BK will send anyone but himself to the sword to live another day.

Get it yet?

Moyes has kept us up there competing against the top teams, last year finishing above Liverpool and one place below Chelsea the European champions, this year we have been challenging for the top 4. We havnt gone backwards, at worst we have stood still, but I would say we are a better side than last year and we will improve again if Moyes stays.

I have never said Moyes can do no wrong so why accuse me of saying so? But I don’t agree with many of your criticisms of him, you say he is clueless how to change a game but how can he change a game when he has so few quality options on the bench? Moyes has many faults but that is not one of them.

I Still don’t get it Gavin, maybe you will get it your self one day and realise that we are very lucky to have a manager like Moyes in charge of Everton, we could certainly do a lot worse.

Yes, Ian, and I'd play for the Wallabies if the ARU would just name me in the team.

Now there's an out for Davie if he wants it. Go Dutch, get into European competition which it appears Twente could do easier than us. Make a decent fist of it then a season or two later, nip across the border into Germany.