The Time for Change is Now

At worst we get a hiding in every game and discover they are garbage - better we know now than keep paying wages for no-hopers.

OR

They are the real deal and the whole place comes alive embracing what we haven't had for years - HOPE!

I was getting excited then, till I remembered Dr Doom is still in charge of team selection.

So although we are 7 points behind Chelsea in 4th place you reckon there is nothing to play for well thank heavens you aren't Evertons manager. Your advice is play the kids and if they get a hiding in every game then we will know they are no-hopers,

I think given your opinions I will stick with Dr Doom thanks very much.

You can hide behind hand wringing about the board and finance if you wish but it amounts to pissing in the wind they've been here for years show no sign of moving on so we'd better do something different if we want better than the above.

But perhaps that's it - you're quite happy.

Mucha
Coleman Duffy Distin Baines
Mirallas Gibson Barkley Oviedo
McAleny Vellios

I'm sure I just heard a faint 'oink' pass by the window...

We're not going to finish 5th (Europe) and we'll lose (heavily?) at you know where so 7th -9th I don't give a flying fuck! Play the kids now and then fuck off to get sacked by Bochum or wherever you'll end up, Moyes. You're done.

Mucha
Baines
Coleman
Heitinga
Distin

Gibson
Fellaini
Barkley

Victor
Mcaleny
Mirallas

We are two points off 2nd, and if we buck up our ideas then we can take points off those in front of us.

I'd agree though that we need change.
One of my biggest criticisms which is aimed at Moyes is not using his squad well at all. We have the best U-21 side with some very talented youth players.

McAleny was mentioned in another post, give him a try, same goes with Duffy in CD and Barkley .
It's clear, and has been for a while that our team looks labored yet nothing is done to solve it.
Even with our small squad we need to include some fresh blood in to instigate some freshness before we lose the position we're in.

They are obviously doing something right to be top of the U-21's table.
I worry that there are some talent which is just wasted, Oviedo is one example where he could of filled in for a tiring Pienaar, but more sore Baines.

Fellaini didn't look arsed last week, but he won't be dropped.

I'm hoping the attacking side of the team wake up and take some of their chances.

We can blame the current board blah, blah, blah for our current predicament but the players we have at the moment are the same until the end of the season and we have to support them no matter what.

Hopefully the players have had a serious kick up the backside for the City game, I really hope so.

I think we are doing just right for what we have, maybe a few points better off considering we were robbed in the Newcastle game.

You say woeful sky 4 record, yes it's there to see quite clearly, but now is the the time to change that, they have to, to have any chance of Europe.

Our starting 11 looks jaded, unenthusiastic, Moyes bottles it, no tactical nous. I think about 8th, so why not try the untested, give youth and the fringe players a chance, we have nothing to lose now.

Fair play you admit you're happy but I think you and others of the same ilk are contributing to the demise of this club how many more years are you happy to see us without a trophy ....1?..3?....5?....11?

It really shouldn't need saying that being in the north west with Liverpool on our doorstep and the mancs just 40 mins down the east lancs kids will take one look and say "sorry dad, not for me".

The Wigan result was par for the decade see my pre match comment the day before if you think I'm being wise after the event. Moyes is a straight line manager not a moments inspiration is in him, we NEED to try something different given Bill and the others are welded in at Goodison.

But if you're happy - bollocks to the clubs future eh?

I've no idea how old you are but I'm guessing you're someone who saw the title winning team in the 80's where both teams from Liverpool were the force in English football.

I didn't see that as I was born in 93' but all I can say is, 'people like you' need a reality check. We are performing to our limits as a club, financially, even over-achieving some say, and it isn't a surprise that our squad is tired.

To expect Everton to finish higher than 5th with our current resources is and would be nothing short of a miracle, but I do believe with a few more players, (a striker, another CM and a left footed CB, GK) we could be in the mix next season.

I would love to see Everton win a cup, I really would but it isn't to be. Am I going to get upset, no, it's pointless. I said the same thing after the result at the weekend.

The big question is ultimately who can push us on as a new manager, I really don't have a clue, but I don't think it'll make a huge difference.
Moyes's limitations are clear to see but given what he's done, is there anyone who can succeed and better him under our financial limitations.

He will be chuffed with a draw, but even a 1-0 defeat will not hurt him too much.

It's all about perception you see, plucky little Everton, hard done by Moyes, no money against the big boys, and on and on we go.

As long as his reputation holds out until the end of the season, job done as far as he is concerned.

As you say your not interested in finishing outside of fourth place, well if you think with our finances we can compete for fourth on a regular basis then you have lost all reality. The trophy argument so can I ask would you have been happy to do what Birmingham did win the league cup and get relegated.

As for kids deciding to watch Liverpool who with all the resources have never won the Premiership, I don't think that's a worry and I cant see thousands of kids going to Manchester either. Dont remember that theory working in reverse in the eighties when both Merseyside clubs were at the top.

"I think you and others of the same ilk are contributing to the demise of this club"

What a thing to say to a fellow Evertonian. Shame on you.

Wake up folks.

Unfortunately, never going to happen with this feller in charge.

Basically, the 'safety' thing is terminal with him.

The 'everyone back for the corner', while we were 3 down against Wigan was the clearest sign ever that he couldn't change his methods if you put a gun to Morag's head and said "try something different or she gets it"

Yeah?

or

Play youngsters who might give the ball away, or give goals away, but who don't cost the club a fortune, will always give 100% effort, might become good enough to be 1st team regulars, or future stars and save the club many millions.

Personally I'd go for the latter every time. We've seen Moyes future, and its old crocks on massive wages, often played out of position, but usually stinking the house out. Reminds me of the last days of wally to be honest...

Best of the rest is competitive. No satisfactory. But it is competitive.

Phil Neville running about pointing at everything in sight. I'm gonna stick my neck out and say I'm pretty sure I never seen Iniesta point once.

Everton is Great.

We'd wipe the floor with everyone, wouldn't we?

Only 4 trophies have gone to clubs without money in the 21 cup comps competed under Moyes. 17 to all the teams above us in the league.

Hmmm, what is the connection???

Excellent post, what a relief. Cash is very obviously the primary determinant of success, these days. Sad but true. That's the way it will be for the foreseeable future.

I meant wouldn't it be great to start a new cup or mini league for teams that have no money. We'd be great.

We wouldn't have to finish 6th anymore.

So the odds on facing the winners isn't great...

number 2989 on the list of stupid everything is rubbish about Everton comments.

See you're doing Tony J's material now.

Hack.

Keep to the Dave and Morag skits

And who's Tony J? If you don't use the full name then I don't know.

Gerrin there!

Fuckin' delighted me like!

Ahhh......Fuckin' made up.

Brilliant.

Can't imagine wanting anything else.

He's a cockney btw.

"See that wooden thing over there Bill, it's a door. Now open it, close it behind you, and don't fuckin come back."

Not much to ask.

I've seen BK in Kensington Gardens a number of times (the other side of Landon Tarn) and he's seen that I recognise him but I've never known what to say.

*Just like to say, on the record, that the last two posts are a pile of made up shit.

1. Few fans expect us to get a top 4 place
2. Few fans expect to win away at clubs with more money than us
3. Few fans expect to beat top 4 teams or indeed any team when facing them in cup competitions
4. Finishing just outside the European places is satisfactory for many fans
5. Many fans accept that low quality football is inevitable due to our lack of money.

With this attitude the majority of fans will soon become very few fans.

If anyone takes an objective look at the other squads around us then you'd see how well we've already done to be where we are (not that I don't always want us to be better of course). Arsenal bought our best player off us and if all they're players are fit probably doesn't even get in their team. Liverpool have spent 50 million over the last two windows after spending over 100 million the season before. They could afford to send a midfielde rback to Dortmund who would have walked into our team, let alone a striker at West Ham who would probably push for our starting line up as well. As for Chelsea then anyone thinking we'd keep pace with them is delusional. Mata, Hazard, Oscar Ramires Lamapard v Osman Gibson Pienaar Mirallas, hmm I wonder why we're a few points behind them.....

In my opinion we have a few exceptional players in Pienaar, Baines, Mirallas and Gibson that Moyes has relied on (or not had available) far too much. When they've run out of steam the two passengers upfront and the lesser talented players in the squad just haven't been able to cope. Whilst the top teams can rotate their playmakers, we can't.

Away wins at the top sides would be great, the stat is inexcusable but anyone thinking a new manager is going to consistently win at these to grounds is mistaken, some of these teams go whole seasons without losing. And yes a trophy would be great as well.

Your little interludes brighten my fuckin' day.

Seriously like.

My point about league positions betwixt CL and relegation might be demonstrated by Brenda he will be forgiven for being trophyless and missing out on CL qualification because anyone can see he's making progress. Moyes has this minor issue of coming to a dead stop during the season of no excuses - remember the "best squad" and how it withered under expectation? But fair play that vital league position he maintains makes all the difference.

But I love your point alluding to equating winning cups to relegation one of my favorites actually the fact the vast majority don't get relegated after winning cups is irrelevant and like you I just ignore it because I like spooky stories.

And even though Kids not supporting Everton is a horse that's bolted the idea of winning stuff and trying to stop and reverse it is spooky as well..... I'm with you lets not do it, lets stay exactly as we are another 11 years like this we'll be able to phase develop Goodison without impacting on attendances - everyone's a winner.

But I disagree on the rotation. When watching Spurs Inter earlier I got out the ol' microsoft excel and devised a 6 game rotation plan. Its genius.

Hitzlesperger, Oviedo, Hibbert, Heitinga, Anichebe, Barkley all get to play twice every six games and yet the starting XI only has two changes each match away from what is our considered best XI.

Admittedly its one for the Football Manager players. Yup, I was bored.

The manager can't play a 36 year old in midfield who is clearly finished.
The manager was once brave and defended a lead by putting on another striker on (Radzinski, Campbell, Rooney). Where has he gone?
The manager has a team that chokes when the pressure is on, but plays when it doesn't matter.
The youth policy isn't really working.
The manager looks tired carrying the board around, £4m per annum or not.
£500k on stones, when Liverpool signed £23m of talent is the gulf.

If it aint broke.....you're asleep.And wrong. Wake up.

Fair enough.

Midnight, the Moyes residence - 'Bonnie L'and Forrd'

Moyes sits bolt upright in bed.

DM: "Whit wuz that!?"

Morag: "Soonds like there's sumdee doon stairs so it does"

Moyes puts on dressing gown and creeps downstairs.

He flicks the light on and a naked man stands there kissing a pic of him and Morag taken on their wedding day.

DM: "Entwistle! Christ son, whit about the restraining order? Yev been telt 100 times!"

Entwistle "I love you Davey and I'm here to protect you"

DM: "Protect me? Fae whit?"

Entwistle: "Toffeeweb.....could I have a cup of tea, I'm cold?"

DM: "TEA!? Awa tae fuck ya lunatic!"

Entwistle: "Don't be like that - I don't let them say anything bad about you Davey, even if I know they're right, I'll just keep arguing and arguing and telling them how wonderful you are"

DM: "I'm calling the police!"

Fade.

Return to see distressed gibbering naked man being put into the back of a police car.

Mr and Mrs Moyes are approached by bizzie

Plod: "So much for care in the community eh? We see it all too often these days Mr Moyes - unfortunately not a lot we can do. Fact is he'll be back out and back on Toffeeweb before the nights out, you mark my words. Well....goodnight sir" (salutes and does that panto copper knee-bend thing).

These last ten games are a chance for redemption, to play attacking football and give the fans something to be proud about. There is no point playing conservative football. I want Moyes to go out in a blaze of glory.

The way I see it, our weakness at centre half, is our lack of ariel ability. Therefore I would play distin and Duffy, with them both understanding, that if they switch off, the way distin has been recently, they will be substituted instantly.

Baines picks himself, but I would allow him to throw the ball were HE decides,rather than we're Moyes tells him. In fact, I Moyes should sit in VIP box, rather than continually harassing our players!

Coleman should continue at right back as Neville is finished. How he gets a game in midfield makes no sense. We have 2 players who happen to be great physical specimens, who also happen to have fantastic natural ability coupled with the confidence to always want the ball. Their natural Position is centre midfield and their names are Fellaini and Barkley. They have the strength and dynamism to tackle and close down better than Gibson, neville or Osman, as well as more technical ability. Fellaini owes us after Wigan. Barkley would give the fans a boost and get shots off.

Pienaar has always wanted to create from a free role behind the striker. It's we're he made his name at Ajax and looked fantastic against Chelsea in that posn. He is our most creative player and has a great work rate. He would stop the deep lying opposition midfielder from getting on the ball. I think him, Fellaini, Barkley and the the two full backs have the pace, stamina, determination and strength to really press opponents. And given the chance to play were they WANT, in style they like, would breed confidence, get results and feed back into their confidence.

That leaves Miralas as our only true winger. at this moment I don't know what to make of him. He's a Jekyll n Hyde performer. I would ask him to play wide right and just concentrate on beating the full back and getting early crosses into the box for jelavic. He whips a good ball in and jelavic needs to know that it's coming first time or early to make his trade mark runs.

I would give jelavic chance to save his career. Ten games, were we got the ball as early to him as possible. His movement is great, his goals last season were one touch. So lets get through balls to him early, over the top now and again if we have to. Lets get it wide early and crossed first time. Play to his strengths and see what happens.

Then there's a left wing problem. NOT pienaar ever. Teams are onto it now! Plus, when did pienaar ever cross a ball for a goal. Gueye is awful. Oviedo is a shout and I have no problem with him playing there. However, I did say gung-ho. So I would go against the other thing I said and play anichebe out of position as a wide left attacker. He's played well there before (lfc away) and it would be as a wide attacker. He has pace and strength, as well as a goal in him. He would be a threat arriving late at the back post when Miralas is whipping crosses in.

So 4-2-1-3 primarily come 4-3-3, come 4-5-1 if needed!

Howard
Coleman. Duffy. Distin. Baines
Barkley. Fellaini
Pienaar
Mirallas. Jelavic. Anichebe

The way I see it, this team would not only make the last ten games more interesting, but every player would have something to play for. We would get know if Anichebe and Coleman were good enough once and for all.

Barkley would get good experience. Fellaini could get back to doing what he does best- running games from midfield and put himself back in the shop window. Who knows he might enjoy his football again an decide to stay! I would make him capt as this would be honour that he could not take lightly. He would kick on again I'm sure, if someone put that responsibility on him. It's time he matured!

It would give pienaar a boost to be given his favourite role.

Not only that, but we would be capable of competing physically as a team. My team would introduce much needed height and pace, whilst lowering the average age of the players. This might help us stop conceding from set pieces and allow us to play a high tempo pressing game. What we lack in experience, our enthusiasm and pace would more than make up for. I'm willing to bet that no one does a Neville pass either.

And leave someone on the half line when were defending corners. Bringing everyone back doesn't work. It's become a belief of Moyes. He done it with the yak and he gave two goals away. Repeating the same mistakes is insanity. How many times have we cleared the corner only for the opposition to pick up the ball and cross it back in to score? And how will we ever score on the break if no ones up front? It's so negative.

Please, please,please Moyes, no more negativity, just positive football for your last ten games. Don't even mention the opposition in your team talks. Just give the the players confidence and belief. play simple attacking football. Press with a high tempo and replace anyone who isn't giving 100%. It's not complicated just do it. Sit in the stand and relax cos your going anyway. You owe this club nothing so go out in style!

Just let me have the pleasure of seeing Fellaini and Barkley play together before he's gone! And by the way, not holding midfield. I want them both, to play 6-yard box to 6 yd box midfield. Charging round the pitch tackling everything that moves and surging forward, following their pass, breaking into box, trying to get on the end of crosses, shooting from range. Real freedom to play. When one goes one stays, traditional centre mids. Parker and Demebele are doing it! But our two would be even more powerful!

On our present trajectory we will finish seventh. Does anyone think we would do any worse, having a real go, with this team for the last ten games? And even if we did finish 9th. So what? 7th, 8th, 9th who cares!

Let's go for it, COYBs!

(don't whine Nick, you asked, you got)

For me, though, Fellaini can take his ridiculous Belgian bouffant head and make his way down the M6 in his cash wagon, windows down, frittering away the faithful's hard-earned currency. I don't like him anymore.

United and City are in their own league.
Spurs and Chelsea are also far better than us. Just look at their squads and then compare to ours for Christ's sake.

That leaves Arsenal, us and the RS. I'd probably still give Arsenal the edge. Which leaves us and a resurgent RS who spent well in January battling for 6/7th.

Anybody who thinks a strong first 11 is enough to play well over 45 games - clinch top 4 and silverware needs to wake up from 1987. It's been said a thousand times but today is a squad game. Your squad wins you champions league finishes and trophies.

Could we play better football - absolutely.
Could Moyes be more tactically astute - definitely.
Is Moyes' at the end of his regin - most likely.
Could our record at big clubs be better - undoubtedly.
Is 17 years without a trophy acceptable - no fucking way.

Can we expect a new manager to come in and spend £3.5M (net) a year and deliver Chamipons League action, trophies, and entertaining football?

...It seems some people here do.

Reading what some people say they do expect us to be in the top four. I don't, I think where we are in the table is our level but theres no excuse for the lack of football we've had to put up with over the years.

Regarding you last point however - "Can we expect a new manager to come in and spend £3.5M (net) a year and deliver Chamipons League action, trophies, and entertaining football?..It seems some people here do."

For the record, I personally HAVE accepted that with the present board (and lack of funds etc), we will NOT be finishing in CL places or have any chance of winning the PL.

However, regarding entertaining football, the squad we have NOW have already shown they are capable of it and that when they did play it, they had more success.

The problem (appears to me) that there is not a 100% commitment to it.

That if it doesn't 'work' after half an hour try the hoof.

It's all a bit..erm..'nervy' and half-arsed.

A few months ago, I was (believe it or not) posting compliments on TW for the football we were playing and for Moyes for (finally) delivering it.

The away win at Villa was something that had me in raptures.

Everton going away and running at the home side, putting the fear of Christ into them, battering them and winning easily.

But something has gone wrong (hears cries of 'NO SHIT SHERLOCK!').

I'm not talking about results (they've OBVIOUSLY gone wrong) I'm talking about the football/tactics.

If you're (god forbid) going to play percentage hoof-ball, then play it.

If you're going to keep it on the deck and pass and move, then do it.

In the last few months, it's looked like nobody really knows what we're supposed to be playing.

My guess is that our manager doesn't really 'trust' this football.

I think he's a percentage man.

I don't think it's a conscious thing, I think it's 'who he is'.

None of this makes him a bad man, just (imo) bad for us.

In a perfect world, every team would have the same chance of winning the title and it would just (as it used to) come down to which team 'got it right' most times (ie worked the hardest, played the best stuff, got their tactics right in more games).

That's gone, now the teams with the most money win the league - fact.

That's not Moyes fault.

As for the other trophies, possible to win the FA Cup although to be fair (to him) there's a good chance of meeting a billionaire club in the semis or final.

As Swansea just proved though, DEFINITELY possible to win this as this is the competition where the billionaires often play their reserve sides.

Consequently, imo, our performances in this competition have been shocking and I don't believe we/he can use money as an excuse.

As for beating the top teams away, that we haven't once and that a lot of the teams below us have at least once in the past 11 years, is a VERY damning statistic.

Phil when you say - "..putting aside dull football, no big away wins, loyalty to certain players. Moyes has delivered everything possible in terms of league placings"

Well...yes.

But if you forget league placings and DON'T put aside these things?

The performance against Wigan was awful. Some players are clearly at the end of their tether, like Neville. However, and it is a big however, we are in danger of becoming Charlton.

I remember before Curbishley left (who had done a fine job), fans phoning in every radio show slating him because they were only 12th in the league. Two years later, they were in League One.

If we lose David Moyes, we lose a man who has taken us from a regular relegation candidate to a regular European contender.

In our hearts we are still a big club. In terms of history and fan base we are still one of the biggest clubs. In terms of finance, we are nobodies — and that is not David Moyes's fault. Has nobody else had a bad day at the office?

After Saturday's woeful attempt at playing football, I was in pure rage mode; I wanted to kill Moyes, the players, the staff — it was a disgrace. If Moyes had of walked after that game, I can't think of many fans who would've been unhappy with that. However, after the dust had settled, I had a good hard look at Moyes's tenure, and I believe he has been great overall.

At the start of the season (with a net spend of zero yet again), we were playing great free-flowing football, it was a breath of fresh air to watch, a real joy — even Tony Marsh wrote an article on how impressed he was with Moyes and Co. Without some really poor decisions going against us (Newcastle etc etc) and some poor finishing, we could easily be sitting 4th. Here's the keyword: 'could' — the reason we are not 4th is because of lack of backing from the board; it's that simple.

January, was our chance and we blew it. Moyes knew it; we the fans new it, so why the big uproar now? Okay, imagine the board DID back Moyes... we could of had Fer, Nergredo, Niang (who played excellent against Barcelona). Instead, we have a tired team, a team in which even its own players were begging for new signings. Yes, I'll be the first to say Moyes can be negative, but I'll also say he had us playing the best footie I've ever seen (I'm 31 btw).

I'll also accept that him not playing the youth can be annoying, and his constant playing of Neville and Osman is plain madness — not to mention him not winning at the top 4 clubs for years. He has his faults, no doubt about that, but then I look at Wenger's situation, the man has worked miracles at Arsenal, yet the fans want to give him the boot and replace him with... guess who?? David Moyes.

So, to sum it up, Moyes has done a great job at Everton for me, Is it his time to go? I'd say Yes without investment in the team..., and I'd say No if he got the backing he and the team deserve.

** Sustained applause **

Don't forget to include Luton Town, they were similar to Charlton, and now they are in the Conference, we could end up in the Bostick Sunday Pub League or whatever the fuck you call it now.

I suppose Chelsea, Spurs and Newcastle aren't trying to win the Europa Cup??? We cannot pick and chose which trophy to win.

You said you were 19-20, and you're obviously a newer contributor on these pages, but if you think that losing 3-0 to Wigan in the cup, losing to Reading and Norwich, and drawing to teams like QPR, Southampton, Wigan, Aston Villa et al in the league is where this squad should be, then you need to take a serious look at a lot of different aspects of football and our club.

There is no doubt in most Evertonians' minds that 7th is our most realistic finish at the start of any season. But when you look at how we've played, the opportunities we never take because of Moyes' tactics, then you naturally start to wonder if bigger things are possible.

Overall he's been great, but for me our squad has not overachieved in any of the last five seasons... and that's the myth Moyes, Neville and media keep peddling!

Football is still a sport after all so you can't blame fans in wanting us try and beat these teams like Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs, who have been in transition for two years.

Just TRY and compete. Go at them when we play them. And talk the club up rather than down all the time!

And for these last 10 games, we can't use the squad size as an excuse. The points we dropped recently were down to bad errors against poor sides that we should have beaten. We haven't had the basics right. Can't defend set pieces, play too many players who look tired and need operations because he can not trust Oviedo, Naismith, Hieghtinga who he bought. Moyes would rather play people out of position than give Barkley a go.

And if our squad is so poor, why is the wage bill £62mil? Why was his last two signings a left back when HAD Baines — and a right back when we have Hibbert, Coleman, and Neville?

If we are so poor, with a small squad and 4th in League when the window opens, with an out-of-form striker and no width. Rather than chase a CM and buy a prospect RB, our great manager should've gone for a striker and/or winger. But he wanted to spend what little dough we had were it was most useless to us. And destroy what little HOPE! (Every fan should have hope!) I'm sure Stones would have waited till August as will Fer.

Even if you think Moyes is great, and I do. He should still be positive about club; stop protecting the board, stop being loyal to has been players and stop saying we're overachieving when plainly we are not.

The board have let the club drift into further debt and not backed the manager by providing reinforcements. Indisputable.

What's the problem here? A few of you are just fiddling at the edges. Moyes gets paid the best part of eighty thousand squids a week. If he doesn't feel the board is backing him, he can walk. He doesn't need the money, so presumably he feels he can do his job with the resources at hand. In that case, he can take the laurels when they come – say when we beat Man Utd at home; and he can take the brickbats when we get played off the park – say last weekend.

The board are indefensible and, to be fair, I don't hear many defending them. Moyes does... but then they're paying him the best part of eighty thousand squids a week.

People who defend Moyes are naive. We can do better, and that's a fact. It's no use blaming the board, because their man clearly disnae.

We can do worse as well. But this "Be careful what you wish for" shit is doing my head in. Laudrup has won a trophy, beaten Arsenal and Chelsea away in less than one season. And he "inherited a team". Moyes has been here ELEVEN YEARS{!} — every member of the playing and coaching staff is there on his say-so.

Nick Entwistle et al, I'm not letting the board off the hook. But Moyes is the manager, he must take responsibility for what he gets given. Indisputable.

If he doesn't like it, he can speak up... Indisputable.

He hasn't.... Indisputable.

Although bizarre as it seems to me I recognise some fans genuinely think it should continue.

Can't imagine the team that finishes 11th shouting about being the best of the bottom half. Or Fulham going we're the best of the teams with small crowds. Or West Ham saying we're the best of the teams with a claret and blue kit.

If we finish 7th, where you seem to think we should, and say that is a good season, because the top six have all the money. Then you could say the same if your West Brom or Swansea or Stoke. "Everton just have too much money to compete with for a uefa cup place". Because no-one below us spends anywhere near the same on wages.

I don't know why you go the game. You must just want everyone to declare how much money they've got at the start of season, then put the teams in order and say "no need to play any games this year" , Man City you've won, Chelsea your second, Man Utd third etc etc...

Presumably you would defend every manager in league then, because everyone would have finished were they should. Even the ones who got relegated. Not sure Ferguson would like it, though...

So, explain this: Why are Man Utd top and Spurs third? And shouldn't the eighth best team be saying "We're the Best of Rest"? Like Swansea with half our wage bill and a trophy.

Then you say only 4 teams outside the top sides have won cup. Well we should have been best placed to win one, if we are 'best of rest' and Moyes had the time other managers haven't.

What's the phrase, correlation not causation... so if money is nothing to do with it explain why this is the case...

In 9 of 11 years in charge the only teams to topple Moyes's Everton in the league are the teams directly above Everton right now, and only one more and only once - Villa. This was at a time when Randy Lerner spent 𧴜m over three years.

So if its not about how much money you have, explain the above.

Occasionally we beat top teams with money, we've even reached 4th, the only club not to be bank-rolled to do so.

ps: We're joint 9th on wages and have a £0 transfer fund. In 7 transfer windows Moyes was allowed a zero net spend twice, and the other five was not allowed to buy in one single first team purchase. That's a hell of a restraint.

What I actually think is that your post nails the actuality of the PL right now, you just don't want to admit it.

Barry, does that qualify as a post criticising Moyes's league record?

Do I agree we have an atrocious record
In cups, ie when games really matter, or not?

Yes our Euro form was horrendous but to get there also came at a time when squad investment was at its highest under Moyes.

Back to the league, any explanations on the above?

I might add if we had someone capable of motivation in charge this season could genuinely have been a cracker. Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea have been in a right state and Spurs are flakier than us with the potential we have CL qualification was there to be had.

The door to the FA cup was opened wider than ever this year but Moyes teams just fold under pressure - it really is a story of missed opportunity under Moyes.

We should simply get a break down of all 20 clubs finances, give the wealthiest team the title and relegate the poorest 3.

Simple: problem is, Everton's board, would still fucking lie, even if they never had to buy a player again.

And I say we are at our limits, because it's true. That's not Moyes's fault is it?
Without a bigger sponsor, worldwide advertising and investment we are going to be in the same position in 5 years time.
How I'm part of the problem is beyond me. I'm looking at the bigger picture from the past 11 years.

We've been consistent, yes. But consistent from 6th-8th in the past few years, is that really a surprise when nothing has changed behind the scenes? Can Moyes change that? No, he can't without significant investment.

I might sound negative, but I'm always in a positive mind frame before every game, regardless.

Similar to many of my fellow Evertonians, I was a big fan of Big Denis Stracqualursi during his campaign-long loan spell with the Blues last season. What Stracq lacked in finesse, he made up for in work ethic, tenacity, and dedication.

Well, it turns out that Stracq may have another big fan, in the newly elected Pope Francis. The now-former Argentinian cardinal is an open supporter of Stracq's club, San Lorenzo, from the time of his youth as he grew up near the Saints' stadium. With eight goals on the season thus far, it is not far fetched to imagine the Holy Father cheering on, and praying for, the former Blue as he devotes himself to every run and loose ball – just like we did last year.

So, selfishly, here is my prayer... Holy Father, Argentina now has a Pope and they already have a miracle-worker (Messi) and a devil (Maradona), so how about you give us this day our daily bread and send Big Denis back to Goodison Park... Amen.

Osman I thought was playing well at beginning of season but he's clearly knackered and been playing terrible - I fail to see why him a rest, u could have a true 5 man midfield and use creative talent of Barkley. Why bring him back from loan and not play him. Ditto Duffy. Why buy players like Oviedo, Velios and not give them chances - I don't get it.