Blue Union – 2 Years In and Next to Nothing Achieved

You must have some ideas to take the club forward if you are THAT interested surely?

Actually 'better' how?

For me, with BK in charge, we were in deep shite before The BU.

With the existence of the BU, we're still in the same shite, but maybe one or two supporters are more aware of our situation.

Does this make things better?

Maybe not, but I don't see how anyone could say we're worse off.

By the way, re your personal experience - I'm not disputing it for a second but it would be genuinely interesting to see a response from those you accuse of being "difficult to communicate with, arrogant & unwilling to answer simple questions"

Colin Wainright's succinct statement is also a legitimate reminder (when talking of the BUs success/failure) that those wealthy individuals who 'run' Everton (and are obviously in it not for the love of the club but for FINANCIAL gain) have been treating you a lot worse for a lot longer.

Blue Union tried to gear up support and at least managed to make fans at large aware of the situation the club is in.

Trust Everton tried to get something going but that is also taking a long time to bear fruit.

Various keyboard warriors at least helped to get rid of Wyness and Ross.

I see 2 major hurdles to bringing about change:-

1. Bill and cronies intransigence and stubbornness to get out.

2. Fans apathy while the team is doing reasonably well on the pitch.

Strangely if Moyes quits and the team nosedive that may bring about the change needed – but I don't think that's what a large number of Evertonians want – so there is your Catch-22.

Rather than worry about people who aren't the cause, and clearly aren't the solution, what is it exactly that you have done to address the club's problems seeing you're clearly motivated and concerned enough to pose this question on TW?

No need to answer, it's a rhetorical question, I know you sit on your arse and do nothing....and people ask me why I'm pissed off with Everton fans? The biggest problem isn't Kenwright I can assure you.

As for this bilge, it's nothing more than trolling with a bit of concern trolling thrown in. So Dave Kelly doesn't want to talk to you after you and many others have trolled him for almost two years... and that makes him a bad man? I would have blocked you as soon as you started calling my blue credentials into question. Stop whining, you had good run and now it's over.

I see there is more talk of investment just as the season ticket sales go into full swing and fans are not stupid enough to keep falling for this (and phantom transfer bids) anymore, so it will be interesting to see what Bill's moves will be in the future. To think, he would have got away with it if it wasn't for them pesky kids!

"I continually asked the Blue Union a simple question – "What is your plan to oppose stagnation?"

Did he not just answer his own question?

"An irrelevant sideshow who helped squash a potential new ground which may have attracted investors to the club mainly because of a municipal boundary line".

First of all, that wasn't the Blue Union. Secondly, that's a load of rubbish.

The potential new ground was a disaster (a disaster easily avoided if the board had fucked up King's Dock) in the making from day one and the subsequent enquiries proved as much.

People questions these groups, "What do they do?", but a much bigger problem is the number of fans who readily turn their nose up at said groups without having a clue what they stand for.

The phrase "kopite behaviour" being a prime example, as it is used against anyone who dares question the board. Other fans peddle the "get behind the team" mantra (totally missing the point that supporting the team and being against the board are not linked in any way).

Too many fans are pointing fingers at each other, instead of getting their finger out, and missing the bigger picture. Questioning the fan groups is a waste of time and effort, especially since, according to many, they don't do anything anyway. Question the people letting this club slowly rot away.

Contrast that with Man Utd and the supporters protesting continuously against the Glazers. Yes, they're profiting wildly and put debt on that club. But has Fergy been denied anything he needs? And if they don't win a title (and they won a few), aren't they right in to win things every year the Glazers have owned them? With them we see the ownership/fan interests converging. We should have such owners to bitch about.

"What is your plan to oppose stagnation?" What answer did you expect? Storm Bill's house like the villagers after Frankenstein's monster? And what answer do you have to your own question?

I liked seeing the BU having a go, however "poorly attended" meeting and marches were. Good for them.

You also have to consider from a journalistic point of view that powerful and rich people have access to the law and they use it regularly – especially when they see a real threat to themselves. The use of injunctions and super injunctions have made investigative journalism a difficult task for even the most intrepid of journalists. With the printed press in disarray and unable to sell the numbers of newspapers to remain viable, they are loathe to print anything which will lose them advertising revenues, never mind send their journalists out with the express purpose of finding out the truth of any given situation.

Just look at the division of the fans on this website alone, MOB v Non-MOB split into narrow groups — the old adage of divide and rule is probably more pertinent to Everton Supporters than many other groups of people. I'm pretty sure that every Blue wants the same thing: a club to be proud of and a team that reflect the ambitions of all Blues at all levels — but, barring a nightmare meltdown either financially or on the pitch, I can't see what will galvanise Evertonians to seek the truth in an active way.

All of us who remember and witnessed Wimbledon '94 know what the club means to its supporters but there have been precious few occasions since then when the fanbase has been as one — and that suits those who own the club right down to the ground.

Kirkby would never have got approval because it was based on total fabrication — but enough words have already been wasted on that subject.

As regards investors and/or buyers, if the price was right and there were willing sellers, anything can be bought or invested in.

Ask yourself: Would you invest in anything Kenwright was controlling if you had a ha'peth of sense and money?

Then ask yourself: Would you buy something that had not made a profit for 11 years, had some of the worst commercial deals in the industry, had gone from a net asset position of £30 million to a net liability position of £30 to 40 million — and the asking price was over £100 million???

Wake up and smell the coffee, mate.

How many on here would have had us playing in a cramped Bestway site?

Please expand on this Mr Gee.

Playing on a "cramped" Bestway site, or standing for an hour in a "cramped" holding pen, waiting for the 7 o'clock train from fucking Kirkby?

You don't have to believe the "bullshit propaganda" on here Ian. Go and read the documents. They're all available. Go and educate yourself.

After reading that, I feel like Fleming must have felt on discovering penicillin.

I feel strangely.... privileged.

Quite simply, we have happened across something new, something not seen before - a previously unknown new level of dumb.

Please keep it to yourselves until I can get some sort of scientific authentication - there could be a few quid in this 'Toffeedumb'.

I was worried about us going to Kirkby.

I read the transport plans.

After that, I wasn't worried anymore, I knew it would get called in because I couldn't believe what I was reading, it was a fucking shambles.

There was also, amongst other things, the small matter of Everton being unable to show where ANY of the £78 million they needed was coming from at the inquiry!!

Tell you what, to get you out of it, you post, “Oh you didn’t understand, I too was being ironic!” then you won’t look too bad. Another tip, it’s an Everton site, a basic prerequisite is than you support Everton Football Club so stating that’s what you’ve done isn’t exactly going above and beyond... it’s a bit like claiming breathing in response to being asked what you’ve done today.

You’re not too good at this are you? [No, that’s another one that doesn’t require a response, you’ll get into it.]

Always glad to see the comedy post and Greg’s is right up there with the best. Also glad to see the majority appreciate what the guys have done. Kicked off Facebook and Twitter? Wow, that’s some achievement because the people who run those are some of the most patient you could meet.

Many pressure groups and agitators/lobbyists see a gap and dive in. They will, mostly, either disappear in a puff of apathy after enjoying being the centre of attention for a while or accept an invitation to join their supposed targets 'to affect change from within' after which they 'go native'.

If Greg is right and he has asked them a direct question and been met with arrogance, that indicates to me a level of self-regard that trumps any cause they're involved in. Treating the people they say they represent and act in the interests of is also another massive warning sign. They sound almost like politicians, don't they?

[Did I walk into your bear trap? I do hope so!]

I went to both meetings and marches and they were great successes, as was the media campaign. Critics seem unable to understand what goes on, even with the highly publicized stuff, so what's the point in telling Evertonians what they are up to?

I was at a very well attended Blue Union meeting last week and they are doing all sorts whilst getting banned and bullied by people who should not be in our club. I said it before and I'll say it again: the keyboard warrior won't be our death as they do nothing, it's the apathy.

What does that sentence mean, exactly John?

"Treating the people they say they represent and act in the interests of like this is also another massive warning sign."

Messrs O'Keefe and Wainwright, is there anything else I've written that you would like me to repeat?

And Mr Fitzpatrick, congratulations on losing another potential recruit to the Blue Union by trying to humiliate him. Didn't someone nail you to the wall on another thread when they asked you why you never commented on the team you support, only on the finances? Are you an accountant first and an Evertonian second? You don't have to answer any of my questions but, as someone who has trumpeted for the BU, answer Greg's question in the OP.

It would appear there was no answer 2 years ago and there is still no answer now.

I have no answers either to the opposing stagnation conundrum but then I'm not the one suggesting I have, am I?

So yes, I guess I am just sat here on my arse supporting the team.

What's Greg done to oppose stagnation – other than troll Dave Kelly for two years?

30 years ago, such a question wouldn't have arisen: fans were agreed what EFC meant and, rightly or wrongly, cushions being thrown reflected such unity.

Not so now there is a suffrage season after season of debacles and creeping mediocrity I never thought I'd see at GP.

Most readers here will know my views on Moyes; I disagree with the BU over support of him but, in the grand scheme of things, it's about a positive long-term future for the club and I'm afraid Bill and his men aren't up to it, so the BU get my support.

Modern Evertonians lack something – I don't know whether it's ambition or a real education in what this club is about... It seems only a relegation fight will move them. Ineffective campaigns at Newcastle, RS and Man Utd shouldn't be an excuse to apathy but so it's become.

The dreadful details of the Blue Union meeting with Kenwright failing to raise the masses told me it was a lost cause – the full head-in-the-sand treatment kicked in with the diversionary "tapegate".

What difference does it make if the meeting was taped given what was the revealed? It's like any battle – the ends justify the means – the problem is, too many don't realise this IS a battle, while blissfully ignoring Bill's back catalogue of dirty tricks.

Pompous "talking shop" types waffle on about ruining the chances of dialogue, thinking a beer and sandwiches meet laughing and joking with Bill at GP will improve things – naive doesn't begin to cover it.

We should protest because we're being treated like mugs by people who are doing nothing for EFC – not because someone has a Power Point presentation including an addendum for the choice of colour in the bogs.

Until someone else stands to be counted, the only show in town is the Blue Union – get behind them or come up with something yourself.

Thats at odds with reality. Dave Kelly is a member of the EFC Shareholders Association executive and was prevented from attending a meeting with the CEO as part of the SA delegation. Those that have "gone native" are supposed fansites that don't rock the boat in exchange for financial benefits.

Everton Football Club don't co-opt their critics — they exclude them... they banned AGMs remember.

As for the apathy remark, Greg isn't apathetic he has been inspired to pen an article complaining about not being able to troll Dave Kelly. The Blue Union have been quiet but they still stir people's emotions, including your own.

Furthermore, I think that some people want this thread to degenerate because the BU has a shiny website but, I suspect that's about it.

Not by those in charge, though, hey Kevin? As emailgate proved, their marches had a very real effect at Board level and it mobilised an unprecedented media and PR campaign that culminated in Martin Samuel's stunningly transparent puff-piece on Kenwright in the Daily Mail.

At the end of the day, while I haven't agreed with all of their methods, the BU have done more than anyone, apart perhaps from KEIOC, to bring many important issues to the surface or to a wider audience than "hotbeds of conspiracy like ToffeeWeb" [!] and it's fair to say that any momentum they were building was stalled by the team's form after January last year.

They were aware enough to know that continuing to march and campaign against the Board would have run counter to the mood of the larger fanbase while things were going right on the pitch – an illustration of the tightrope they have to walk between building support and alienating fellow Blues.

The likes of Kevin and Greg can scoff at what they perceive as a lack of success by the BU but the increased awareness among Evertonians of what is going on with the Club and the widespread and intense nature of the reaction towards Kenwright's failure to take the club forward after the Wigan debacle is testament to what they have achieved so far.

Do we need the Blue Union, you ask? Well, who else is going to take up the baton?

Asking how we intend to 'oppose stagnation' constitutes trolling - you need to get out more David.

Barry #487 - 'Until someone else stands to be counted the only show in town is the Blue Union - get behind them or come up with something yourself' - get behind what exactly Barry? Supporting the team - yup do that. Opposing stagnation - Neither myself nor the BU have any idea how to do this.

So how do you plan to oppose stagnation... Dave Kelly can give examples all you have to offer is two years of trolling and then this scroll of self-pity because he blocked you.

Set up your own group if you want to oppose stagnation... Dave Kelly did.

1. someone always mentions Hitler/Nazis.
2. someone attempts to win an argument by finding inconsistency between future tense and present tense.

I see you've gone for the second one.

Share holders shouldn't be banned from share holder meetings and AGM's for an organisation that so many people care about shouldn't be halted because of uncomfortable questions.

I didn't call Greg apathetic or allude to it and my emotions can be stirred by a really nice piece of cheese and a cracker.

Some Toffeeweb members are BU members and have used threads on here to drum up support and to agitate against Kenwright. I have no problem with that and enjoy reading the debates. And I'd like to enjoy reading this debate but, it seems, the BU are being reticent.

In 2007 the owners did what they didn't have to do, they consulted the fans over a move. It was clear at that time that some fans - a minority but a fair few - had all kinds of reasons for opposing a move. To my mind much of this was apathetic in nature in that they did not want change and they certainly didn't want to change the habits of a lifetime. There is no problem with that as it is human nature to stay safe. All suggestions that changes were needed were shouted down - Keep Everton In Our City was pretty demonstrably Keep Everton In Our Part Of The City, which was pretty galling to those living outside of L4. Who is it that wanted to keep their toy then?

Ironically we now have an ownership that is showing little sign of achieving change while the BU promote the need for change! 'Let go of your toy Kenwright' is frequently written. The similarities with with board back in 2007 go further as the OP hints at. Spin, calling fans 'sheep', 'apathetic' and generally getting 'cross' with 'those fans who don't see things my way' is a staple, as is 'BU are just a bunch of Evertonians trying to achieve change in their spare time' while at the same time claiming ultimate winning expertise (in hindsight) in the stadium debate.

I applaud those that get up and try to do something, but do so with consistency not politics, argue with balance and integrity rather than spin, don't fall into the tempting trap of dirty tricks when faced with resistance in order to win the hearts of the reactive, the angry, those wanting change and are prone to believing the first bandwagon that comes along'.

There is more than a bit of a traditional Merseyside workers versus the owners invoked here, but let us please return to what is best for the club, the team. Let owner take their profits as that is their right. Let those who want to protest withold their money as is their right. What we do not need is one group of supporters vilifying another. There is no easy solution, no revolution that will put Everton back where it belongs unless we are all together.

But for gods sake now we have a surplus of money on the way as wages are capped let us see a long term plan in action to improve the structure of the club! Turn your attention to this BU and achieve some really useful success - you deserve it but most of all WE deserve it.

Failing that email the group with a show of support or ideas of your own those involved must be very wary about putting their heads above the parapet given the lack of support.

They might feel inclined to organise another protest if fans started saying what can I do to help rather than what have you done to entice me?

He has a fair point. BU happy to appear the knight in shining armour, but dare question them and be shot down in flames. And why?

Because they don't have the answers either!

BK: Desperate but with a football club.

BU: Desperate but with nothing.

This debate is about BU achievements or lack of them depending on your view. My personal view is they had no real plan to 'oppose stagnation' when they formed and they still have no plan now. If they had one they would tell us all to enable us to buy into it. That is something I would encourage.

I am against Greg lying about his dispute with Dave Kelly on Facebook and other misrepresentations in this article.

As for fair point, what has he done to oppose stagnation? Does he even want to oppose stagnation?

I shall tell you how we can avoid stagnation: by getting rid of Kenwright, Elstone and other members of the Board — this is exactly what the BU are trying to do.

There, I've answered your question.... anything else?

As for worrying about recruiting people on ToffeeWeb, or anywhere else for that matter, you seem as keen on the numeric value of an argument as the club do; that is a minority must be wrong and the majority must be right. Fortunately I’m not, even if only one person is right they’re still right no matter how many oppose what they say... but, as it happens, I believe the vast majority are with the people in the Blue Union anyway.

I’m not sure if you’ve ever been involved in any form of political campaigning but one thing you’re taught about is to not waste time on people overtly opposed to your point of view as they’re most often raving lunatics. Anyone stating a factual argument is always listened to, but people just making stuff up get treated with the contempt they deserve because – for those that have taken the time to discover the facts – that is what it is: contempt.

I can wholeheartedly assure you that the Blue Union have not lost any potential recruits. You stated early on that the Blue Union’s only solution was to sack the board; this has never ever been stated for reasons that clearly escape you. It’s the same mentality that’s common to people having digs at KEIOC or the Bestway site or Kirkby. The unfortunate who has just written about the boundary issue tells most everything and me everything I need to know about anyone who agrees.

I'm not sure what you said after the sack the board thing, John, as when somebody starts talking bollocks, I switch off... so best not waste your breath.

After all these years, I’ve realised that people who still don’t understand aren’t worth worrying about; it’s not a popularity contest, sensible people will make up their own minds.

Lyndon asked me a long time ago not to call people fuckwits on here so I’ll respect him, but the minority still fall into that category, reiterating their ignorance like a badge of honour, too thick to realise that they’re making fools out of themselves with some of the most knowledgeable Evertonians you’ll find; sadly the demise of Kipper have them looking for a home.

I hope you’ve enjoyed your attempt to engage me, John; you’ve failed, miserably but you can see why I don't bother with the Facebook and Twitter accounts – if the OP is the standard you have to put up with, Dave Kelly should be beatified!

Unfortunately, and predictably, they found out that criticising is easier than doing something. Doing something positive about Everton’s financial situation is actually difficult in the extreme, so it’s no surprise that Blue Union and Colin Fitzpatrick don’t even have the vaguest of beginnings of a realistic plan.

We are where we are (financially) because of poor decisions made by successive boards since the 1970s, because John Moores son was a red, because of the economic decline of Merseyside, because we have two of the biggest global football brands in our region plus the Arab’s plaything, and because the economics of football have been changed by television and globalisation.

You can add the bad luck of our big chance in the 80s coinciding with the Heysel disaster and the subsequent ban. Kenwright’s mistakes may be annoying, but they are all trivial in terms of these bigger factors.

Many ToffeeWebbers want Kenwright to sell to anybody. Let’s call them the pro-Venkys brigade. They ignore the fact that he cannot sell below a certain price because he has borrowed money on condition of a profitable sale. They ignore the fact that the great majority of takeovers end in failure of the club to progress – like Sunderland, Villa, Wolves, Birmingham, QPR and many others. (Those who said “if QPR/Birmingham/Blackburn can find a buyer why can’t Kenwright” – you know who you are and you should be embarrassed for yourselves.)

Kenwright is certainly not perfect, and nobody claims that he is. I doubt that even Bill Kenwright would claim that. But, for now, he has my vote because I remember those relegation battles (we have improved), and because he hasn’t given in to the demands of so many ToffeeWebbers and sold out to Venkys or their ilk.

It seems some supporters feel the BU are trying for a popularity contest or looking for some political gain.

Well here's my take on it.

The club has without question been run into the ground financially at a time when the Premiership is awash with money and marketing opportunities.

Add to that the consistent lies, deceipt and cloak of secrecy that has been the culture of Kenwright's tenure and you would have to be naive or easily contented to not feel aggrieved at what has been happening to our club.

Keioc and the Blue Union are just a bunch of capable and caring Blues who got off their asses to highlight these issues and to attempt to bring about change for the better either by Kenwright changing his ways or selling to a more capable party.

IMO every true Blue should be grateful for what Colin and his colleagues have done in their own time and with their own money.

They have not sought "political" donations nor intimidated people to join their ranks they have just set out to establish the "truth" something Kenwright is totally incapable of contemplating.

It angers and saddens me that fellow blues are taking every opportunity to have a "pop" at them instead of being grateful for their efforts and questioning Kenwright's plans or lack of them.

Add to that the level of ignorance being shown by some and it is no wonder Kenwright gets away with it.

This fella has created a post which raises his own concerns about the effectiveness of The BU. He has also mentioned that he is behind the fundamentals of what they stand for. Instead of slating him, why not try and get him on side? I'd imagine that the response that he has had from Colin Fitzpatrick has just helped him to decide who he's backing.

Colin, your attitude to him reminds me of Robert Earls' attitude towards your own good self.

It's groups like the BU and KEIOC should continue their opposition to the board to expose their shambolic running of our club. Kenwright Out.

Colin Fitzpatrick and other members of the Blue Union and KEIOC, keep up the good work. At least you are doing something to stand up to BK's regime — unlike people like me who rant and rave at anything.

So are we? We still have the same board, and if it's true that Greg was mocked for not going to all games then the bloke who mocked him is just as bad as Blue Blood Bill and should know better.

I think it was statements like 'Deal of the Century' and 'virtually free stadium', 'a world class stadium', 'best transport links in the UK' etc that had alarm bells ringing for a lot of fans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29#Concern_troll

"This fella has created a post which raises his own concerns about the effectiveness of The BU. He has also mentioned that he is behind the fundamentals of what they stand for. Instead of slating him, why not try and get him on side?"

Greg is a concern troll.

The team is the players, squad, manager etc. Stagnation is the current custodians of the club, who are nothing more than parasites and freeloaders. They have sold off all the family silver, increased our debt, never provided any investment, & failed to deliver most things they have promised over the last 13/14 years. Some of them don't even go to the match. They are happy to sit on the 'asset' they have acquired in our football club until they sell it for a huge profit.

The BU support the team. They oppose stagnation. Right, that's that sorted.

They have never said they were going to provide the blueprint for success – how could anyone promise that, when they don't have intimate access to all of the finances of the football club? Not even the chairman knows where the money for 'other operating costs' is going, so how could a group of fans?

The fans will end up with the club they want. Who would you trust – a group of Evertonians who stem from other generations of Evertonians, and who want the best for the club? Or a group of charlatans who have consistently failed to deliver for well over a decade, and who are pricing us out of investment?

ToffeeWeb and Blue Union could make it happen but it would need a huge effort of some 5,000 plus withholding the stuff that makes the world go around.

Ambitious maybe... An alternative could be that a single match is targeted next year with a protest stayaway.

I have to agree with Ross Edwards — we need groups who are capable of standing up to these people and this takes strong people we can follow, not wimps who fold at the first sight of an argument.

Listening to some, it's like listening to the liberal democrats: let's be nice and all get on, let's be reasonable, let's talk to the club because that's what they do when they are telling you about the Kings Dock and Kirkby and Goodison Place. Wake up, people — nice gets you nowhere.

Then you are looking at all players necessary being sold to recover the monies owed to the debtors, and the remaining players thinking "Why the hell would I now want to stay here?" So, unless you have a new board ready to come in, asking the current regime to leave is pretty pointless. It would effectively mean the end of the club.

Then we had the whole 'tapegate' affair, where a transcript appeared that was strongly rumoured to be heavily doctored to paint BK in a light that gave support to the BU. As the meeting was never meant to be recorded, it was impossible to know if the transcript was 100% true or not.

I think the toughest thing to justify, was the fact that the BU appeared to 'stop' its activities when results improved. Personally, I did not see why they felt the need to stop, as the performances off the field have been exactly the same without any improvement in financial performance. And, if I understand correctly, the BU is opposed to the board — not the first team and manager. I think many found it difficult to understand this.

FInally, I know many Evertonians like myself, that believe the reason we have not been sold, is that there has been no interest from anybody that could IMPROVE on where we are today. And yes, there probably are groups out there willing to invest some money into the squad. But I am certain they will also want their say on first team affairs for that investment, as per the other examples we have seen fail miserably where owners think they know best.

I don't see a "Venky's" type investment as an improvement on what we have today. Or what happened at QPR, Arsenal, Villa, Liverpool, West Ham, Rangers, Reading, Portsmouth. The only model that seems to work, is those with endless pockets. Not those with 'business acumen' trying to run clubs as a successful business.

So, for me, if they are not billionaires willing to invest hundreds of millions, then I would also show them the door — as it appears Kenwright has frequently done. I would hold BK far more responsible for destroying the club by selling us to a fucking idiot without an intimate knowledge of our heritage, than the current charge which is consistently challenging for a European spot and being unable to break into the CL. Because, let's face it, most of you wouldn't give a fuck how the club was run as long as you had the odd tin pot.

If this is what Gregg is then there's plenty of people on here to give him grief for it. Colin as communications officer should be able to handle him better. Why did you think the BK media machine have done so well? They know how to play the game.

I'm fully behind the BU and understand Colin's refusal to spend time on people who are completely against him but I think he then goes completely the opposite way. I know plenty of intelligent people who didn't need much persuading, they knew that BK wasn't running the club well but were still to be convinced that The BU was the answer. Most of these people have now seen comments by BU and have completely dismissed them now as nothing more than a bunch of ale house bullies.

If Gregg is a lost cause then fine. Just don't alienate yourselves against people who aren't.

On this you're right but imo it's totally disingenuous.

True the question put was "Are you in favour of Everton relocating to Kirkby?"

But in actual fact, they only consulted the fans over A move, not THE move.

And the difference?

A move was to a 'state-of-the-art' ground, no problems with the transport and in effect, all buckshee.

THE move was revealed at the enquiry - to a two-bob ground where some supporters would have been getting on trains 1hr and.45mins after the game and nobody knew how or who was paying (read the report!).

Fact: NOBODY voted for that.

Oh and remember it was basically 15,000 for, 10,000 against and (FUCKING INCREDIBLY!) 30% of those (eligible) 'didn't respond'.

You also add - "Keep Everton In Our City was pretty demonstrably Keep Everton In Our Part Of The City, which was pretty galling to those living outside of L4"

Eh?

You have a link or figures to back that up?

Most of the Evertonians I know (none of whom live in Walton) weren't in the LEAST bit 'galled' because many Evertonians (like me) think Everton (clue's in the name!) SHOULD be in L4.

Well, I have read more about that, both on websites and in the national media, in the last 2 years than the 10 years before that. For that, I commend the BU. Well done boys – you brought it out into the public domain, in spite of the efforts of the local media (prompted by the club) to dampen the flames.

One day, the naysayers will realise how bad this board have been for Everton, a bit like myself regarding Kirkby. I was unsure at the time. Now, I realise that KEIOC were right all along.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Under this board, we have no plan for the future. Keep the club afloat and hope for the best seems to be the best they can do. History will show them up for what they are.

Let's be fair, as soon as they started, they pointed out that it was going to be a long road ahead... and it still is; they have tried to raise awareness of certain issues and people who do read sites like this and others have learnt much. However, the larger core of Blues out there find their knowledge from the Echo, kipper and the red top; these blues know jack shit about issues like The Park End project Colin informed us about a few days back, and that Bill's remortgage to save the club was bullshit.

I had a go at my mate last week who claimed we would be relegated if it wasn't for Dave and Bill. After reminding him that he stopped going under their leadership, I told him to take some time out and read the KEIOC site... he was shocked with what he read. This is the battle the BU face: some blues don't even have a clue about Mr Green.

It's the same with the media, when Samuel wrote that bollocks before the march — did he read into such stuff as the Fortress lies etc?

The BU have made some bad mistakes but how people can slag them for not doing enough is beyond me. Greg, you spent two years asking your question but what were you actually expecting? There is only so much they can do, they have sent literature everywhere and much of it gets ignored by the people who matter: leaked emails... the lot disappear into the vaults of The Echo and the red tops.

You want them to expose him and they are trying... but, unless you want them to employ a brass to catch him balled deep on the front of a red top Sunday rag, the long road will have to continue as it is until finally the penny drops with everyone; sadly something more maddening to us all may have to happen before that penny does drop.

That contemptuous response of yours is beneath the spirit of the word 'union'. Your arrogance is astonishing and a clear warning to me and others that the BU is every bit as slippery as the board members.

I don't believe you tuned out of my post part way through and yet still responded to me. I think you read and re-read it before you responded.

For someone promoting a union of disaffected fans, you're doing a shit job. I had a more or less open mind about at the beginning of this thread but noticed quite clearly that the question posed was being ignored. Greg may have been trolling Dave Kelly but he has asked a very straight-forward question that should be on the lips of everyone who has heard of the BU.

Call me cynical but I trust you as much as I trust the board. You were given an opportunity on this thread to show what you represent and all you've done is insult fellow Evertonians. Your arrogance almost looks like a messianic complex.

I got concerned about Everton's plight back in 2003 when I started looking more closely at the accounts. And realised the lack of direction the club had; every year the club's accounts depress and worry me — and that Kitbag deal makes me so angry.

I realised a long time ago that we can second-guess the thoughts of the board, eg, they are in it for the big payout or put some other machination behind their actions but, in reality, I believe there is just ineptitude and naivety.

Most Blues just want to watch the game — you would be amazed in life how many people choose the easy route. I personally want to fight for Everton but the Blue Union looks to me like it has lost impetuous. It can only gain momentum when we lose games and the fans get restless. This season, we have lost the fewest games at this point in the league than any other Premier League season (so I read). Therefore, no momentum for the blue union.

I feel sad reading these posts of fellow blues disagreeing with each other. The best thing to do would be an open forum for fans to come up with their ideas for the club, put this together in a dossier and present it to the club; a manifesto, or blueprint (no pun) for the club. Then, we can say we tried to help in a positive way — the rest would be to the board... we know their response already.

Mine has been to not buy merchandise or attend a match for several years now. Then again, I don't think the club want me to buy a shirt I now live out of Liverpool and can't buy one, for love nor money, in my local shops. Fucking kitbag deal!

I don't understand the enmity you have towards Dave Kelly, he gave you two years of for you rather enjoyable trolling and one tweet and your off running to the twitter police? Behave yourself.

"Colin Fitzpatrick, Aren't you affiliated in some way to the BU? How about you stop being aggressive towards the fans and answer the direct question Greg posed? Or are you defensive because you happen to be part of an organisation that's primary (secret) function is to serve yourselves? You're agitating for change so what changes do you want? And don't give me an Alan Sugar 'fire him' answer. You've had 2 years, if the only solution you have is 'sack the board' then you and the BU should just admit that you're a busted flush. By all means exist as a fans forum but don't pretend to be something you're not because you're fooling fewer and fewer people"

'The fans'?

No not 'THE fans' as that would be all of us - one or two fans maybe.

One or two who, no matter how many times it's explained, don't appear to have the capacity to grasp or understand even the simplest bits of information.

In my, view the above is nothing but a muddy-the-waters, insulting, aggressive, desperate bollocks.

That said, I think fair enough, I have no problem with it, I'm all for everyone saying what they want, AS LONG...as they're prepared for a response in kind.

But you're not, because instead, when Colin DID respond, you whined like a huge tart - "Your arrogance is astonishing and a clear warning to me and others that the BU is every bit as slippery as the board members".

Or - "That contemptuous response of yours is beneath the spirit of the word 'union'. Your arrogance is astonishing and a clear warning to me and others that the BU is every bit as slippery as the board members".

Or - "I had a more or less open mind about at the beginning of this thread but noticed quite clearly that the question posed was being ignored. Greg may have been trolling Dave Kelly but he has asked a very straight forward question that should be on the lips of everyone who has heard of the BU"

(yeah, it was this thread that made you anti-BU)

The content of your "I'm so affronted" posts don't make me in the least bit suspicious of Colin.

You on the other hand..

Sir Philip Green is a big football fan and a Tottenham Hotspur supporter.[20] In 1987 he suggested to Irving Scholar, the Spurs Chairman, that Tony Berry be appointed to the board.[21] In 1991, he helped Terry Venables raise the last £500,000 needed to purchase shares in the club.[21]

He was also involved in the transfers of Rio Ferdinand from Leeds United and Louis Saha from Fulham to Manchester United.[21]

He is heavily involved with Everton Football Club due to his friendship with chairman Bill Kenwright, but has no intention of formally investing in the club.[22] He arranged for another friend, Planet Hollywood's owner Robert Earle to purchase shares from former director Paul Gregg during a struggle for control of Everton in 2004.[23] He offers business advice to the club alongside Tesco CEO Terry Leahy and helps negotiates player transfer fees with agents.[24]

Sir Phillip is also involved with Watford due to his friendship with Watford chairman L. Bassini. He is due to help them redevelop Vicarage Road Stadium.

This isn't the first time the BU have missed an opportunity to advance their position and nor will it be their last. But if they want to stay relevant they have to move forward or they will become stagnant and what then? Will someone start an anti-BU union?

Second, there are some very serious, some would say fatal, flaws and oversimplifications in the Blue Union manifesto which preclude its being taken seriously by the club – or a potential investor – regardless of other circumstances.

Third, Blue Union faces the problem all grass roots fan campaigns face. Money. Everton doesn't have very much. Kenwright doesn't have very much... Blue Union has even less. Unless a fan group can come up with, or at least get noticed by an investor who does have access to a truckload of cash, it can protest as much as it likes but eventually it has to reach an impasse.

Generally speaking, fans only have one weapon. They can go to the match or not go to the match. When things are bad, it's easy to get them to do the latter and that, unfortunately, is usually when a club finally takes notice.

The Blue Union – or any other fan group – could take another tack. Instead of opposing Kenwright with Christmas cracker philosophy and bumper-sticker chants, it could ask: What can be done to help Kenwright in his efforts rather than simply decry or oppose him? Now that would be a radical move and of course, much, much more difficult than chanting chants.

It won't happen, largely because those in leadership positions in the Blue Union have allowed their contempt for Kenwright to become more important than their love for Everton.

Is this the club, trying to find out what the BU next move is?

I attend all meetings, and can state that the BU are as active now as they were at the start....

The only difference.. as much as the OP tries to state... is , they have more support now...FACT.

Check all the members Twitter acounts.. for followers.

Anyway this should've been posted yesterday......

I'm, gonna have a go at cleaning this thread up a little... but maybe the whole thing was just mischief making. It's a pity, coz there is a valid question, and BU does seem to have gone quiet since they called off their third protest march.

I support the team but do not support the board, isn't that what we should all be doing? Particularly after the lies, childish behaviour and manipulation that has been exposed and highlighted by a group of concerned fans.

Me, well I believe that the BU have and do make a difference, you only have to read the many posts on here to understand how and why.

Only re-enforced their (my take) desire that ownership provide funds to the Club's manager to strengthen the squad. I don't see where they want anything else but the Club they love be put in a position to win the league their Club competes in. Simple stuff, I think.

I mentioned earlier in the discussion that a fair comparison is ManU's protest groups against the Glazers. The Glazers ARE pocketing millions. But at the expense of the team they own suffering? Hasn't appeared so, so far. They understand how massive profit is directly connected to sustained excellence on the pitch.

They had the money to buy most clubs in the EPL. Yet they went after ManU. Because they knew what they were doing. Buy the best and keep it the best. The supporters retain a winning team and the Glazers get to make a ton of cash keeping those supporters happy.

Our lot are ONLY in it for whatever cash they can get out of it. As long as EFC isn't relegated, they feed at the BPL trough. Look at the next 3 seasons and the financial intake from the new TV contract. Kenright and them will be awash in money for doing nothing. "Punches above its Weight Everton does". Plenty good enough for our ownership to line their pockets far beyond what they imagined when they bought the Club.

The point I was trying to make when including it was the Blue Union will only ever be as strong as its numbers & in a time when they desperately need support they've proved they're not very good at engaging with fans who are undecided.

The real debate I was trying to start with this thread was;

After 2 years of the Blue Union, nothing has changed. In my view they have no core strategy to 'oppose stagnation' but they have certainly put a further strain on club / fan relations so – Do we need the BU? If we do, could they do more?

As to the BU's campaign, well it has been successful. So far.

I never thought that it was going to be an overnight success, no campaign ever is. One demo and Bill sells up? No way.

However, the issues of mismanagement highlighted by the BU are now out there, regularly discussed here and forcing the impressive PR machine at the club to respond and call in all manner of favours. We know that because of the leaked Ross emails.

The club's spin operation is very effective. Take that first meeting with The People's Group. Who knows if it was taped or not, or even if a confidentiality agreement was put in place beforehand at all? Nevertheless, after the car crash that was Bill Kenwright, pleading for the banks not to kill us and not knowing what other operating costs were, the club very quickly moved the focus from the contents of the interview to the issue of whether it was taped or not – largely irrelevant but a good deflection.

We now have the Bill Kenwright Sky Sports monologue – it was not an interview – prepared by a former employee of the club, in which he repeats the line that he mortgaged his house to save the club; a proper interviewer would have pressed him on that to winkle out the reality, but this was a puff piece, no more.

So the club know that they are under scrutiny and they probably realise that they can't go on forever talking up phantom transfers or potential new owners just as season tickets go on sale. The more scrutiny they face, the harder it will be for them to con the fans.

All that said, I remain surprised that a large proportion of fans remain either supportive of the Kenwright regime (on the grounds that he is "a Blue") or not really bothered about the mismanagement of the club at board level, when the facts are so clear. I remain despondent that so many are accepting that we have no money, as a way of excusing Kenwright, when they should be asking WHY we have no money. When they should be asking WHY there are no buyers after all this time; WHY our only strategy is to sell off assets.

So, after two years of BU activity, progress has been made, but there is still a way to go yet. I am just glad that we have people like Colin and Dave supporting our club who are prepared to put their heads above the parapet in the name of the long-term future of our club.

I might be wrong but my recollection of the Blue Union is that it didn't actually form until September 2011, a couple of weeks before the first march, at which it was decided to form the Blue Union. I was at that meeting, sat on a shelf because it was that packed out, so it's not two years old anyway. There were two marches after that, both bringing attention to the stagnation in the club caused by not buying a player for two years.

In-between that, there was all sorts of stuff about Ian Ross and emails which told everyone how worried the club were and Ross ended up losing his job. There was another meeting in town in a big place in Liverpool 1 which was also packed. I still have the booklet and I have it in front of me. No mention of sacking the board — they wanted a third party engaged to sell the club and name a couple of candidates, one of which is an outfit called Inner Circle Sports.

Two months later, Moyes was given money for the first time in two years and our season changed from the worst in recent time to one of the best. A month after the transfer window closed Everton appeared to appoint Inner Circle Sports, according to http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news/2012/03/01/inner-circle-sports-join-everton-fc-buy-out-hunt-after-helping-to-broker-liverpool-fc-s-two-american-take-overs-100252-30436240/" target="_blank">this story in The Echo.

In my humble opinion, some people are just too quick to criticise.

But it is obvious from some of the posts on this thread and the numerous others like it that there are a lot of fans out there that DO NOT already know what's wrong, and worse refuse to believe there's anything wrong even when provided with the facts.

Colin #498 "I believe it was the Blue Union, who forced a Public Inquiry." You believe wrong then mate, the Blue Union weren't even formed then. And it was the Club that forced a Public Enquiry by putting forward a proposal that they knew broke planning regulations and would be called in.

You just don't get it do you, so let me spell it out in simple terms. The BU oppose stagnation.i.e. they oppose the current board. They are a protest group, they are protesting about the mismanagement of the club under this current board. The only tool they have is to protest and bring things out into the public arena. This they have succeeded in doing, very well.

What do you want them to do? Short of winning the euromillions and buying the club for £150 million or whatever, how do you expect them to come up with a plan that will lead to our redemption, when they will never be given access to the intimate financial details within the club?

The 2nd half of your post is total unsubstantiated nonsense.

Just to clarify, I posted a simple question on the BU Facebook wall a couple of times which couldn't be answered which apparently constitutes trolling.

"What do you want them to do? Short of winning the euromillions and buying the club for £150 million or whatever, how do you expect them to come up with a plan that will lead to our redemption, when they will never be given access to the intimate financial details within the club?"

I'd be interested in your reply/solutions as you seem to have a lot to say about the BUs 'failure'.

Just a couple of points:
- Kirkby was not derailed due to the actions of KEIOC. It was always going to get called in. For the first time ever on this site I can say I am qualified to comment on this, due to my role with one of the companies involved.. There were also a couple of local authorities who had valid objections. Tesco were one of the two villains of the piece, and have a long record in trying to drive through projects for the betterment of their shareholders. The fact that their then-CEO is a Blue is immaterial.

Our current majority shareholders, with the exception of Lord Grantchester (who does not co-operate with BK, JW and RE), are out to make a fortune. None of that triumverate were ever wealthy enough to take Everton Football Club forward - and I am not just talking about throwing money at the team.

What the Blue Union did a couple of years ago was to raise awareness. They should be applauded for their efforts - and I do, even if I don't agree with every bullet point they produced.

The thing that really pisses me off now is the division amongst the fanbase. Whether you sit in the Lower Gladwys, or are a "keyboard warrior" in the States, or Asia, the fact that you're a Blue is enough for me.

This board created that division, or contributed to it, with the DK project. It's been done to death on this site before, but it was just an opportunity for our current owners to get a planning consent to allow them to sell their shareholding at a huge profit. But even they weren't convinced of the merits of the scheme. Why do you think they had the sham of a "public vote"? A "consultation"? They're directors of a business, and as such they are charged with doing what is best for that business.

They should be charged with a lot more.

But please, please, let's cut the snide insults and show each other a bit more respect. Diversity of opinions is what drives this site, but we're all fans of the best club in the World. Well, England. Well, Meseyside!

COYB!

It's disingenuous to propose the "careful what you wish for" removal of a board that does little or nothing would be so disastrous given all you would need is nominated names to replace them. Sort the Pandora's box behind the scenes and employ new blood in the ivory tower who can and will run the business as a business — then you have the start of something far superior to the last 13-14 years which have been lost.

But I think what you've failed to do is to consider it in the context of BU as essentially a protest movement. Maybe this is what you don't or can't accept. But all they can really do is protest.

Organize meetings, plan marches, raise issues, write internet pieces, increase perception of serious concerns for EFC among the fans — these are all things they have done with remarkable success. And what has it achieved? It has exposed stagnation — stagnation that they are (naturally obviously) opposed to. Stagnation that we should all leap to our feet in opposition to, because it is threatening to destroy our club.

What they can't do, is persuade fans (perhaps fans like you?) who are opposed to them, their purpose, their methods, their people, their history... whatever. Fans who may say they want to be persuaded — or they're not coming over to the Blue side.

It's like religion or politics: if you are fundamentally opposed to what someone else stands for, it is virtually impossible for them to change your position. In your case, it sounds very much like they recognized this from the start.

You may think the BU should be in the business of proselytizing... but really it should be a no-brainer. Once you have heard the message, read the transcript, seen the e.mails...

It is really up to you to decide.

Paul #718 – a protest group who protest once a year?

There is only so much they can do and, if people still call them dickheads for exposing countless lies for more than 13 years and back Kenwright, then the only thing that will change such people's minds would have to be virtual relegation or going to the wall.

They have raised the issue big time, but you cannot expect them to march when the club is on its way to Wembley or battling for the top four, so Bill will thank Moyes as – no matter what people say – it's Moyes who has saved his bacon with the supporters, as well as him being a Blue... as, if he wasn't, he would've been chased years ago.

I know you don't, which is exactly why I re-posted Danny's question.

Your 'I have no idea' answer imo illustrates why so many people have taken issue with your position.

A position that offers NO solutions at all, yet questions the tactics of those who (whether they've got it 'right' or not) have got off their arses and at least attempted to tackle/publicise the issue of our morally bankrupt and hopeless 'board' and chairman.

And you're still at it "A protest group who protest once a year?"

So what?

If you don't like it, start a protest group that protests TWICE a year.

(In fact if you do, I'LL write in support).

But (continue to) do fuck-all except knock the BU and you'll (continue to) get flack and imo, rightly so.

Why do you mention Everton in the same respect as Sunderland, Villa, Wolves, Birmingham, QPR and Blackburn? Is that where you see us as a small struggling club? – because that's what people like you have allowed us to become, clapping like deluded seals at Bill's sly grin on the big screens.

Why have you not mentioned the positive takeovers of Man City, Man Untd, Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea, Liverpool. (I know they're shite but are at least having a go, it pains me to say.) Do you not think we are as good as these clubs???

I despair.... people like you are the reason we will never progress and the Blue Union can't make inroads.

I've never implied that I know what should be done, the BU on the other hand have. So my question to them was simple 'how do you propose you / we oppose stagnation?' - silence was the answer!

The point of this article was to debate if, based on what they've achieved so far, if they are actually needed or if they could in fact do more.

Maybe the BU need to list their short term / long term goals, how they can achieve them and by when. Progress would be reviewed at regular intervals to see where they're at - this is a plan and would be a solid starting point Eugene.

I actually think your OP was dishonest even if it was not your intention to troll Toffeewebs BU supporting readers.

"Maybe the BU need to list their short term / long term goals, how they can achieve them and by when. Progress would be reviewed at regular intervals to see where they're at - this is a plan and would be a solid starting point Eugene. "

So your big idea is a tick list? After slating everything the BU has done.

Trolled BU supporters

Greg, it's Bill Kenwright and a boardroom of lies you are talking about here, you sound like the People's Front of Judea when the Romans stormed the house and found a wooden spoon.

On the one hand, there are some people who question what purpose does the Blue Union serve and what does that protest group want to achieve and by what means. Blue Union in response have stated they want the current board to be replaced by a more business-like and progressive group who will attempt to arrest the continuing decline.

If the Blue Union are serious about achieving their objectives (and I believe that they are) they should embrace the 8,000 or so people who have voted on the current TW poll as that is more than a significant number of people. Each one of those people will also have at least one other person that they know who is a Blue, but perhaps doesn't visit TW and so the number of people they could reach is into the tens of thousands.

I realise that protest groups by nature do not want to broadcast their every move as that would alert the band of people that they are protesting against, but surely a brief outline of a manifesto, if you will, could be posted on this site to help inform those of us who are not fully aware of what they intend to do. I also would have thought that they would wish to recruit new members to help share the workload or raise money or whatever it is they require from their members.

Sympathising with a protest group's aims is not enough, but in order to help that protest, there must be access given to potential active members of that protest. A closed shop attitude is not helpful to the ultimate aim of the protestors.

I don't think you are the full shilling. What don't you get? It's a protest group. They have protested. They never said they were going to provide the road to Damascus. It's not rocket science.

Set up your own protest group and organise your own march? It's not that easy.

I wish he'd take his type of 'trolling' away from this excellent site.

Not everyone has the same opinion Ste – makes life interesting, eh!

How he put up with you for two years, I will never know.

I myself am not a Blue Union supporter but no-one deserves the sort of abuse he hands out and that includes Dave Kelly. Don't bother responding to this, Mr Lambden — I don't converse with your type. Everton fans need to know what type of person they are dealing with here.

Mr Kelly has done more for the future of Everton than you or I ever will in our lifetimes.

When the Cheshire Cat was trying to dump us in Kirkby, Mr Kelly and others, they know who they are, did everything they could to warn us of the pitfalls.

Instead of trolling him, and taking cheap shots at a thoroughly decent human being, you and every Evertonian should be thanking him for his efforts.

I, for one, believe if it wasn't for the likes of him, we may have landed in that Cowshed in Kirkby; I will be forever grateful to them.

So why don't you just thank him and the others, for their wonderful efforts at exposing this board, and in by doing so, attempting to stop the decline of our once Great club?

Shame on you, for trying to blacken the name of one of the Real Greatest Evertonians... one who hasn't met Elvis and doesn't talk to Rocky every week...

You're doing yourself no favours on here... you sound like a scorned lovestruck teenage girl...

That the majority of our supporters are extremely gullible and fall for all untruths and tall stories that emanate from the club is not the Blue Union's fault. If someone wants to believe Bill mortgaged his house to save the club, how can the Blue Union change their mind? They are ignorant to fact and seem happy to bumble along in the misguided belief that all is well at the club.

The fact this board oversaw two failed ground moves, the NTL, Fortress Sports Fund, the Park End development fiascos plus much more besides, which those who are concerned about the future of the club don't need listing again. That doesn't quite unbelievably seem to matter to some of our fans. That isn't the Blue Union's fault.

The Blue Union stood up (and still is) for all of us who are not happy with what this board have done and are doing to our club. They organised a protest march and gained nationwide media coverage, then Leon Osman put us 1-0 up against Aston Villa, someone decided that would be good timing to show Mr Kenwright's face on the big screen and the majority of Evertonians, unbelievably rose and applauded the man!

That is not the Blue Union's fault. That is people who, like I say, are either gullible, don't care or who, like I have said all along, will one day wake up and realise what the Blue Union have been saying all along only when it is too late.

These people see a team that has progressed undoubtedly on the field since 2002 and think that Bill Kenwright is as responsible for that as David Moyes. The fact that, since 2008, David has made a profit of £10m in his transfer dealings whilst keeping us at the top end of the Premier League and playing some of the best football at times seen at Goodison for 20 years is nothing to do with Mr Kenwright, who was, I recall in charge of the club for 3 years before he made one of the very few good decisions he has made during his reign and appointed Moyes as manager.

The club hardly progressed in those first 3 years did it? No in that time he doubled the club's debt by spending money from NTL that never materialised and sold Francis Jeffers, Michael Ball, Richard Dunne and club captain Don Hutchison.

Were it not for David Moyes, Kenwright would have been exposed a long time ago for the man he is and that is why I believe Kenwright pays the man so much — because he is many things, is Blue Bill... but he is not stupid. Again that is not the Blue Union's fault.

If or when we are back among the dead men of the Premier League, then these people will open their eyes, then these people will demand change; by then, it will be too late. That is not the Blue Union's fault.

So, if you have any ideas as to how to make change come about in the meantime, why not share them? Then we can all work together to make it happen!

As for Dave Kelly, I don't profess to know him personally but I know him well enough to say hello to, if I see him at Goodison or at games away from home; from the few occasions I have spoken to him, he doesn't strike me as someone who thinks he's better than anybody else just because he attends more games than most. He strikes me as someone who loves Everton Football Club like we all do and wants nothing but the best for it, which is something we all want and something in times gone by was all the club would ever settle for!

That this board could not be further detached from the club's very own motto is not the Blue Union's fault!

Robbie #803 - I don't agree.

This is the reason I take exception to your trolling of Dave Kelly and your subsequent complaint that Dave blocked you for asking a question. It's not true; you went on and on and on at him for two years, he responds by blocking you and then you start complaining!

Greg, you're the Black Knight of Monty Python having neither a leg to stand on or an arm to flail in anger... Let's call it a draw.

Which bit? The lovestruck teenage girl? Or Mr Kelly is a thoroughly Decent human being?

I'll ask you this: Do you know Mr Kelly? Have you ever spoken to him in person? Do you know what he does for a living? Do you know anything about him? If you don't, you should refrain from this personal attack about a man you know nothing about.

Again... Shame on you...

ps: it seems to me, that people of a certain age, and location, have a different perspective of The Cheshire Cat... hmmm.

I'd be interested to know your age and location... I would guess early 30s or younger... and... living away from Merseyside for a long while... or for ever..

There are exceptions... btw.

For your information, I've never contacted BU nor Kelly through twitter. I was banned from the BU FB page along with most other people who questioned them – this was over a year ago so again your story doesn't stack up.

But FFS can David O'Keefe stop banging on that Greg trolled some bloke from BU on Twitter and Facebook? If the bloke didnt want the attention, then he shouldn't have bothered setting up the accounts – he should be grateful that Greg could even be arsed putting in the effort.

Then comes an open letter from EABU, which advocated all blame to BU for their stance and that they weren't democratic, that made me laugh the most given my own experiences. The fan base was long split before BU came along, the absolute crap I see on EABU is reminiscent of child's play with no agenda of their own forthcoming. Existing for existence's sake... sad.

Where do you live? (serious question) I ask for one reason...

Come with me and meet Mr Kelly... Then you can ask all of your questions direct..I'm sure he would be open to a debate with you.

BTW... this is a serious offer... Do you live local?

I am a supporter of BU. The momentum (and hard decision to make given the circumstances) was lost when the third protest was called off.

Largely their 'opposing stagnation' has retreated back to educating fans through their posts and communications. Although not in the inner circles of it, I believe genuinely they are making every effort to spin plates in various areas to continue the fight against the board.

I genuinely believe it became that intense that the Billy money had to be spent and the pressure exerted on the board assisted that. Had that money not been spent, the drums would have banged louder and who knows where protest would have ended up and to what level?

I refuse to put something down that has made efforts to bring people out of this fanciful idea that all is well at Everton. Emailgate told us that the club were starting to get tetchy about the unrest and it is a shame the momentum did not continue. I believe the Blue Union is needed because what else, feasible or otherwise, has thrown its hat into the ring to take on this board of charlatans?

It seems to me, on the one hand, you sound like your disparaging good honest Evertonians .. ie lads who are in the BU.

Yet, know full well the bullshit from the Cheshire Cats mouth is an insult to all Evertonians..

You should sit in on a BU meeting,

I think your views would change ...

I am an active member of the BU, and as such, can say our support has never been greater than now... Our support has continued and indeed is continuing to increase... We haven't lost support! We have gained it.

All the BU lads have more followers... All the groups that support have never had more followers... So this myth about losing support is quite frankly bollocks.

I know to well that BK & Co are destroying EFC but I'm very sceptical that the BU offer any solution. I drove the length of the country to attend the 1st meeting and couldn't get in — I'm now considering if the BU are actually making the situation worse.

My honest view is the BU's current strategy is never going to change anything. If they're going to protest they should protest — not this half-arsed approach.

The BU have members meetings more or less every two weeks and at those meetings all options are discussed at length. Strategy is planned and implemented.

People might not learn about it until after something has been divulged by the BU or indeed some other source — national papers who help us more that the Red Echo...

It is one of these fortnightly meetings you could come too! If you like, I will give you my email address and, should you so desire to attend one... and get a real insight into what the BU actually does.

You will be more than welcome. Just let me know when your next in Liverpool, and if theres a meeting at that time you could attend. Meetings are usually held on a Thursday, and yes, there is one tomorrow.

Regards,

Robby

Think you meant BU members.

Anyway, Greg , the offer's always open... we're all blues.

ps: Watch this space :-)

Firstly, our 'other operating costs' have increased as a percentage of turnover LESS than any of the teams that consistently finish above us. Feel free to look at the accounts of those clubs, and draw your own conclusions. If you are not willing to do that, then jump onto the 'other operating cost' bandwagon and preach to others something you fail to understand yourself. And then justify that what you are doing 'is for the good of the club', and those that don't follow are apathetic, apologists, etc. even though you fail to understand what you are actually fighting against. Ironic really.

And then you will scream "But Dan, the Chairman admitted he doesn't even know what the £24 million has been spent on!!! He doesn't know how to run a business!!" And my answer will be as follows:

The chairman of any business, is not responsible for knowing the financial ins and outs of business financial operations. You are wrong to believe any chairman is. In ALL major businesses, this responsibility lies with the Chief Financial Officer of the company or group. It is generally not a surprise how much the operating costs are. The figures are normally predicted years in advance, and 'budgeted' for. This means that the company will give an operating cost budget of for example £24 million, and then the CFO has to ensure that budget is generally met. And as always, this budget has to be justified.

My message is, that make your own views on what these 'facts and figures' mean by doing a little bit of research by yourselves. Those who blindly follow the BU are no different to those blindly following the board. It is ironic in some ways.

Then finally, I am screamed at "But Dan, look at the debt increase and deterioration in assets since Kenwright took over!! More bad management!!" And again, I advise anybody to make their opinions. I could post figures here (as I have done before) but I am no longer willing to do so. I will say to you:

• Look at Everton's debt vs turnover as a percentage increasing since Kenwright took over
• Look at the market we operate in (eg, the Premier League increase in debt over the period of Kenwright)
• Look at ALL other clubs in the PL regarding reduction in assets since the inception of the EPL

Regarding asset reduction, my take on the general trend, is that it is more financially beneficial to have your money invested on the PITCH (due to Premier League placing benefits) than it is tied up in non-football related investments during the current financial climates. I am personally glad that EFC had no exposure to the markets via investments over the last 5 years. I personally think that the board are right to invest every penny into the squad. I disagree that putting money into non-football related assets is a healthy thing to do. Which is something that is endorsed by 99% of the football world.

And this is where my disregard with the BU lies. They don't seem any different to the board in my eyes. They tell you only half a story, and make it sound so bad that people that who are dismayed are easily swung to it. I also believe what has been suggested above, in that some of these sensationalist views are peddled by people enjoying their fame and do not 'want to let go of the train-set' to coin a familiar expression. Unfortunately now, the waters are so muddy that nobody can see clearly what is right or wrong.

Dan ....Bellfield?

Dan... Finch Farm?

Dan... Club shops?

Dan ... etc etc... Fixed assets all gone ...

Dan ...Rooney?

Dan...Lescot?

Dan...Arteta.........

I give up....

Jesus....

Are you under 35?and live out of the City?

You can lead a horse to water!

But you can't make it Drink....

Are you off to Aintree tomorrow?

Firstly, that’s an embarrassing explanation for Kenwright’s bewildering non-explanation of what the other operating costs contain. Just so that you’re completely up to speed, what Kenwright was telling the guys was how familiar he was with the company accounts so they asked him to explain what the other operating costs were; floundering around, he eventually admitted that he didn’t know before offering, “Is it something to do with David?” You may think that’s acceptable; I think it explains why the club is in the mess it is today.

You must be practising stand up with your explanation for the concern over the OOCs. The old percentage explanation is right out of the Elstone school of smokescreen excuses. “They have increased as a percentage of turnover LESS than any of the teams that consistently finish above us.” The problem isn’t related to our flat turnover, Dan, our turnover today is £80,000,000; in 2007, five years ago, it was £75,650,000 and our OOCs were £21,078,000 — an 80% increase on the year before when the turnover was £51,000,000. The £20m increase in 2008 wholly attributed to the then new £20m increase in broadcasting payments for which there are NO associated costs.

In fact, to prove this isn't the case, in those 2007 accounts, the unprecedented increase in OOCs warranted an explanation in the financial report: it was attributed to the move to Finch Farm. This almost doubling in a single season isn’t seen at the clubs you’re talking about. Let’s just look at Arsenal as their accounts are the most readily available.

In 2007, Arsenal’s Other Operating Costs were £44,677,000; today they’re £56,716,000. They’ve increased steadily over the five-year period, no 80% increase from what I can see. Arsenal’s turnover in 2007 was £225,013,000 today it’s £243,013,000.

I have no idea whether your attempt to explain Bill Kenwright’s ignorance over the OOCs is more embarrassing than Kenwright’s own floundering. Your attempt to explain away the 80% increase which – broken down to 86p in the pound less wages and lease cost run out at around £260,000 a week – is ridiculous. The question needs to be answered but it will need to be better than that pathetic attempt.

BTW, Spurs OOCs in 2007 were £27,328,000; in their latest accounts, they were £34,845,000, no 80% increase there either.

I may be mistaken but I think both of those club’s finished above us? I don't have time to look up the rest but I think that's enough for people to see through that bollocks.

To say a chairman should not be expected to know where £24 million of his approx £65 million income goes is totally beyond belief.

I have served on the boards of a number of FTSE top 250 companies and if the chairman didn't know what was going on he would have been expected to resign and normally take the CFO with him for not making him aware.

So what we are left with is either Kenwright was lying through his back teeth, which woudn't surprise me, or he is unfit to be chairman of EFC — so which is it?

You don't think that's why we're in a mess. You really don't. It's sensationalist stuff that detracts from the real argument. Portraying him as a bumbling theatre luvvie might pass the time but it's not the real issue.

Greg,
Where was the BU meeting you could not get in to? And why couldn't you get in?

And thanks for taking the time to give examples Colin, but again we only get half the picture. In 2007 Arsenal's costs were £44.6m, today they are £56.7m. In 2007 our costs were £21.1m, today we £22.7m. And in reality, they are sitting two points above us. So our performance over the last 5 years is far better than Arsenals. You see what I mean?

You can make the figures sing in different ways depending on how you present it. I am not suggesting that we are perfect business performers by any means. But my point is, that we are don't appear to be badly managed when we compare to our peers.

Stoke's OOCs increased ONE HUNDRED PERCENT from 2010 to 2011. Does it mean they are badly managed? Our neighbours' OOCs are TREBLE ours, are we really that bad?

As suggested above, it's easy to look at these figure and criticise. But if you do not sit on the board meetings where these things are analysed in depth, then it will always look expensive or bad management. Figures mean nothing without the context.

A decent piece of advice for you would be when in a hole stop digging, you've made a fool out of yourself twice now so don't compound it with further ludicrous observations.

The only half a picture that is being offered here is by you. You incorrectly state that the 2007 OOCs figure was £21.1m, it wasn't, it was £11.7m which I gave you when stating the 2008 figure represented an 80% increase over that figure. Your original contention was that there is a correlation between turnover and OOCs, this is bollocks because the massive increase in turnover is due to a massive increase in broadcasting revenue which does not carry any additional cost.

Now in a straw clutching display you've introduced Stoke. I bet Accrington Stanley's OOCs have increased 100% also, I have no idea, I have no idea about Stoke because they're not Everton, but I'd hazard a guess that it has something to do with the fact that in 2007 they were in the Championship!!!

The only thing I know about Stoke is that they have a new Stadium and their owner, Peter Coates, has personally invested over £60m to get them where they are so your point is lost on me, in fact it was lost on me when you attempted to make excuses for Kenwright's abysmal performance and incorrectly began defending an increase in OOCs which to this day have yet to explain how we're spending £260,000 a week at Finch Farm over and above the wage cost and the cost of leasing it. BTW another little snippet about Stoke, they own their own training ground ;-)

Give it up fella, I'm not into bloodsports....

Our performance is better than Arsenal's........? You're not a very discerning individual are you? You appear to be another one of those who can't separate the manager and board's contribution.

The board are there to support the manager and to develop the infrastructure and commercial activity to help increase our income. How do you think we compare in those respects?

Even mighty Stoke (after decades in the wilderness) have achieved more than our board. Take off the BK blinkers...... only Moyes has saved us from complete collapse under this lot.

I asked for the BU's plan to oppose stagnation i.e how they intend to oppose it. If its just recycling old Kenwright articles on social media sites I'm not sure that will achieve their objectives - & it didn't / hasn't.

'The problem isn’t related to our flat turnover, Dan, our turnover today is £80,000,000; in 2007, five years ago, it was £75,650,000 and our OOCs were £21,078,000'

I have tried to look at all the other teams, and work out the percentage of OOC's vs turnover, and it is almost impossible as each team seems to work out there operating costs differently. Many just group any operating costs together, some like Everton and Arsenal split it out. But nevertheless I maintain my own personal view, that our financial performance is 'par for the course'. And I still don't personally feel like I am fool, because I share an alternative view point to you. I try and explain why I find it difficult to relate to you point of view and you basically call me an idiot, and then somebody above gives it the old 'you live outside the city' bollocks that suggest only those that live in Liverpool have the right to opinion on Everton. And you wonder why you find it difficult to raise support in the fanbase. Quite frankly, I don't believe you, or the board. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Left in the boiler room when even Doddy had seen the light and jumped ship on that one.

They average approx 25k more than us..... their turnover is multiples of ours. Historically this wasn't always the case, so we have fallen well behind them.

Look at the the two biggest Northeast clubs. Again, historically both were smaller than us, with smaller average attendances than us for decades..... now both comfortably average more than us and have significantly bigger and more modern stadia. Infact Newcastle have strengthened their support so much that they can even average more than us in the Championship.

After you have looked at the similar-sized clubs, you can then look around at a whole list of smaller clubs who have all strengthened and expanded their attending fanbases in the period when we have done nothing but tread water, delivering nothing. I would say you would have hard job to find any club's board that has delivered less both in terms of real or relative resources.

You're all over the place and now, for an error I corrected before you even knew about it, are trying to make out I'M confused? There is no possible correlation between Everton's increases in turnover and their OOC's as firstly we are almost totally reliant upon broadcasting money for those increases and secondly we outsource our merchandise and catering operations so there will never be an increase in costs, finally the costs have been attributed to moving to Finch Farm by Everton themselves so there's no need for your brainless hypothesis anyway.

Stop digging, it's excellent advice.

Here's a fella who tells everyone to look in the accounts of other teams who finish above because "our 'other operating costs' have increased as a percentage of turnover LESS than any of the teams that consistently finish above us. Feel free to look at the accounts of those clubs" he tells everyone and when I do and prove that this is incorrect he first of all hangs his hat on Stoke, who've only been back in the Premier League for five years, and then admits to being unable to actually identify the costs he's defending because in his own words, "it is almost impossible as each team seems to work out their operating costs differently" – so much for "take a look" I have and you'll see! lol

I get more sense out of my dog, mate.

Whilst you're doing that, it would be great to have a search by poster/thread topic facility on the site.

Cheers and keep up the good work.

That type of thinly veiled slight of hand may work on facebook.. or with 10-year-olds...

You asked for a solution... a plan — slice it whatever way you like — but opposing the BU on their failure to provide you with a provable solution to the Kenwright problem is inane.

By transitioning to a more interactive site over the years, the comment threads on all current items — news, rumours, mailbag, fans articles, column features — have come more and more into dynamic focus for most of our users, while the 'static' content on the rest of the site assumes less and less importance, I suspect — especially if it is not regularly updated. We want to maintain and improve both aspects but, short of digesting information from one to the other (which is horribly time-consuming), then I think the search feature has to be the more flexible way forward.

Thanks again!

Sorry to bother you again, where was the Blue Union's first public meeting you could not get in to held?

I think Man Utd fans speak for themselves on their interpretation of their board's performance. Chelsea and Man City? Again, it doesn't need a financial breakdown to work out the source of their success. Which leaves us with Spurs and Arsenal. Both of which have great financial models, seemingly light years beyond ours. We could look at mitigating factors such as ticket prices, but I don't think that is the point here.

Regarding Arsenal, their financial success has unfortunately not translated onto the pitch. So having all the business acumen in the world means nothing, if you are unable to support your manager. Arguably though, Arsenal on the best place team should any financial impediments be imposed by the governing body. But by the same token, there are those that believe they are falling too far behind to ever catch up.

Spurs are also look great in terms of their financial structure and direction. The only thing you could say, is that in 12 years of the current ownership, they have not won a single thing in spite of their healthy accounts. And also despite their huge gulf in terms of revenue; if we win our game in hand, they are 3 points above our horrendously mismanaged club.

And I don't agree with the sentiment that the manager covers over the cracks of the board's failings. As highlighted often enough on this site, the board recognise the manager's achievements by giving him a good salary. I dare say that, without the gamble of the board, Moyes would still be a lower league manager. Moyes did not appoint himself, nor keep himself at the club for this length of time.

So let's move the goalposts again. And work out the point acquired per pound spent on OOC. Yes, Everton are the best pound-for-pound team in the land.

Nearly spat my tea out, ha ha. Nice one, Gavin!

Likewise Spurs.... who have not only redeveloped WHL into a stadium with 120 exec boxes (we have less than some conference clubs), they are now looking at a bigger stadium next door. Their turnover is significantly greater than ours already.

Villa might not have acquired the right manager yet..... but even then their brand new stands and 100 boxes mean they have been able to outspend us over the same period. Randy Lerner has at least backed his managers with his own cash... they have no stadium worries and have planning permission and funding to expand should they ever get that manager.

Of course you are right: Moyes didn't appoint himself... I'd suggest the promise he'd shown had the greatest impact on the choice which I believe was influenced mainly by Walter Smith and Mrs BK. To say he'd still be in the lower leagues is entirely your opinion.... and frankly just as groundless as most of the rest of your input. Moyes is the pound for pound performer.... the board are yet to spend a pound.

They've had 2 years to find one, just one potential new buyer or come up with a better plan for the club, so why haven't they even done that? Thought it was easy?

While things have been good on the pitch, they've done fuck all. They've crawled out from under their rocks again after the Wigan debacle. All they've ever done is make a load of noise, have cake-holding clown marches where few turn up (but they'll exaggerate the numbers), pull stunts like invite Big Nev with FA Cup to meetings to try and swell numbers, censor or abuse any Evertonians who dare to speak out against them on their little toys otherwise known as their websites, etc.

They're a joke and have achieved fuck all but bring negativity and embarrassment on our club. They also (wrongly) assume that anyone who doesn't agree with them are Kenwright supporters – WRONG! Blah blah shout blah blah shout. Bring some fuckin decent ideas (preferably not underhand) on how to move the club forward. Until then, shut the fuck up.

Simply can't fault it.

I for one have changed my mind completely.

Take a couple of days off and then resubmit your thoughts.

Hope you catch a fish...

Next time your clapping like a seal....

When the Cheshire Cats Grid,

appears on the Big screen..

Honk Honk....

There you go Michael,

and I never swore once at the thick Fuckin Twat...

I think the Blue Union have done nothing but bring negativity. Would you like to suggest one positive thing they've done instead of resorting to type and just abusing opposers?

So Dennis/John if the Blue Union can't come up with a plan, can't find potential buyers, can you tell me what the point of their existence is? What have they achieved?

I would hazard a guess that out of all the people that responded to me, none of them actually go the game.

Eugene – thanks. Your words mean a lot. I mean you're like the literary Simon Cowell. Always reviewing peoples posts.

So in future, parents can tell their little blues, the scary story of how creepy Uncle Bill and his little gang of tax evaders, brainwashed Evertonians, some of them intelligent, into thinking that a protest group, that's a PROTEST GROUP, with the aim of preventing them totally ruining our beloved club, couldn't actually DO THEIR JOB FOR THEM!

FFS. "Find potential buyers"! Christ almighty!

NONSENSE!!

(apostrophe missing from 'peoples').

1. I do not despise the Blue Union, nor do I admire them. They are trying to achieve something giving their time and passion to something they want to achieve.

2. Nor do I despise Kenwright or admire him.

3. If the solution (whatever it is) was easy to access, I suspect Kenwright would have tried to pull it off. I am quite a believer in the free market and a price is determined by what someone is willing to pay, it seems obvious that either the price is too high or there are no credible buyers.

4. I am not sure if I can be fairly accused of being apathetic or just pathetic.

5. I am certain there is no value in slagging each other off if Michael is consistent with his web mastering then a whole lot of you must get barred quite often (I was suspended for asking if someone was a koppite - vile insult I know)...

6. What we require is leadership and direction, at the moment I see neither from the Blue Union (perhaps unfair to require that of them) or from Kenwright. I find Moyes's delay re a contract also a negative impact in terms of club leadership.

Anyway, I am sure we will all scream our heads off against Spurs and fingers crossed.

ps: Delighted with a couple of you guys who helped me sort out Spurs and Arsenal tickets

You are getting very excited there over something you consider to be "a joke".

It's hilarious that people who are self-professed voices of the BU are so ignorant that they think any Blue who is against them is therefore a supporter of the board and therefore have their heads buried in sand over Everton's problems and thus should be ridiculed. Another reason why they won't earn earn respect or gain further support from other Blues.

When BU started up, I shared an excitement because suddenly there seemed an opportunity that some action was going to take place. What that action would look like and what effect it would have, I didn't know - but it was action none-the-less.

Then came the "agenda" and I for one was disappointed as it seemed BU and other semi linked groups (KEIOC) seemed more interested in agitating the board than bringing a full response. Was I anticipating an overthrowing of the board? May be, or something close such as pressing for their resignation similar to Newcastle and Mike Ashley. The Geordies got a much better response as Ashley made a proper attempt to sell the club.

I'll give credit where its due - BU have made some important stands and brought dark news forward to the uninitiated. The additional transfer spending might also be apportioned to some BU activity - how much, I'm not sure but at least a little.

What I can't get my head around is what BU actually stand for. Is it more transfer fubds? A fundamental change at the club? Or a change at Board level? What is it?

Why am I confused? It's simple really. A coupke of seasons ago the BU stood up to be counted and suddenly there was some action at Board level and a transfer kitty ensued. Great news! But then it all went silent and normality resumed. Following a poor transfer window BU spoke up again and more action ensued.

Then, out of the blue, BU spoke up and stated it had done what was intended, the results on the pitch had picked up, there was action going on behind the scenes at Goodison and the BU wouldn't be raising further action.

Now this is great but its not a substantial change and if we're honest, most transfer have continued to be funded by the sale of players or increased TV rights income.

What I'm interested to know is what the real reason is/was for the BU to stop action and why was it focused on the minor changes when its clear that a larger change is required?

Very little if anything has changed. The same Board continue to run the club - our club - in the same manner. The BK continues to pretend the club is 'for sale' when it clearly isn't. At most BK wants an investor with deep pockets to buy a small percentage but share the wealth.

It seems to me that BK has had a dance with the BU and instead of leaving BK dazed it has left the BU confused and bewildered.

What do I want to see happen? I see the fundamental problem being at Board level. Whether through personal limitations, naivity or carelessness the Board are not equipped to run the club. Many want a new manager no great manager is ever going to come here without the substantial support and backing of the board. And whilst he's not sparkling clean, its impossible to tell what Moyes may have done with more cash.

I want to see a new owner who has sufficient cash to invest in the club without breaking it. Someone who has good business sense and able to submit properly considered proposals for a new ground and doesn't get caught up in the moment when sharing unrealistic potential achievements. (Kings dock, Kirby etc). They don't have to be a sheik or an oil baron.

I don't want a Board who fumbles and stumbles along because they don't know what they are doing or are tied by their own extremely limited financial constraints.

Pre-empting the next question of what am I doing about it? Right now, nothing - but then I haven't said I am or will be doing anything.

Is that bad? Probably - but it's not as bad as promisin I will and not delivering.

As a matter of fact many of the lads I know - who do go the game and depending on your definition of local - let's say a radius of 10 miles - do have concerns about the direction of the club but like many other people are not sure how to tackle the problem without causing damage to the team's performance, they pay to watch but mostly out of loyalty and habit and many of them are far from happy about how the club has been run.

None of them are members of Blue Union or KEIOC but they appreciate what they are trying to achieve, they broadly agree with their aims, even if they don't always agree with some of the methods employed.

I know I am only talking about a dozen or so fans but like you I can't speak for the 35,000 regular match goers.

I think the problem probably is that you supported the board over DK and were shown to be misled and mistaken, and you've probably supported the board throughout the other trials and failures. Others have been shouting about them as and when they've been happening, and you have probably opposed them all along...... and you can't change now because that will be an admission of being duped and having your head in the sand as you repeatedly mention. Your pride has been hurt that's why you aim all your vitriol at a group who have had no part in the club's failings. You put your personal pride before your supposed concern for the club.

I think BU's achievements in raising awareness were commendable. The club's fears were exposed by the media campaign instigated by them. The resultent leaked e-mails led to the club's leading propagandist being sent packing. The media showed greater interest and the club knows there is grreater scrutiny as shown by a whole list of news articles and recent radio shows. I'm not sure what you think a protest group can do given the relative success of Moyes in covering the cracks. That said, the exposure has and will open up other opportunities as time passes and the on-going defficiencies are further high-lighted. On top of that process the football quarter idea from KEIOC has been embraced enthusiatically by the council and other parties. LFC are now moving in a direction that will in effect enact their portion of this scheme with or without EFC. The groups well documented concerns regarding the sale process is also prompting media interest from sources that were previously silent or silenced . If you have any other ideas or wish to add your personal efforts then you are free to offer your help or even start your own group opposing the board. Otherwise you're probably not the anti-BK blue you claim to be. Most on here have already decided that your a wind up merchant, hence the short-ironic replies. I've just got too much spare time (waiting to leave for London to watch our team tomorrow and the kids aren't ready yet haha)

1) The BU can't arrange the sale of the club as they aren't the majority shareholders — Could you sell your next door neighbour's house?

2) They have never claimed to speak for all Evertonians and are a bunch of like-minded dissatisfied supporters looking for change

3) Even their own supporters have disagreed with some of their methods but the group does exist and in not insignificant numbers

4) You will NEVER create a group where everybody agrees or find you are without opposition; that's simply human nature.

5) They encourage discourse with the club and the local press but after the meeting with BK have been blanked and sadly even accused by the Chairman for the club's poor state, an indictment of BKs poor judgment.

How could the BU have anything whatsoever to do with the state of the clubs finances over the last 13 years without having any level of ownership or running of it?

Equally, as you can see in this thread, there are still sadly misinformed posters trying to apportion blame on the abortive attempt to move to Kirkby on the BU when they didn't even exist.

Likewise KEIOC just brought the truth to the attention of supporters about the claims relating to Kirkby regarding transport, access, stadium build and the whole shenanigans of the financing if it. The government correctly called in the project as it contravened multiple planning laws.

If you disagree with the BU, that's your prerogative; to claim failures not attributable to them is mischievous and muddies the water and truth. The clubs finances are public domain information anyway as Companies House data is openly available; the state of the club rarely buying new players is also public domain information; the clubs buy-to-sell policy is public domain information, the film-flam surrounding the plucky Everton label needed public exposure.

Finally if you feel you have something beneficial to add or discuss with the BU, they will cordially accept your presence at meetings and listen to what you have to say. At the end of the day, we are all supposed to be Evertonians, you'll agree and disagree with each other till your last breath.

Why can Evertonians who are not local, not have a valid opinion.

Pointless tripe from you I'm afraid.

The level of stupidity he's shown so far suggests he'll think it's something that's been in a frying pan too long.

We have a protest group without any vision, strategy, mission or purpose protesting about a board that apparently has no ......vision, strategy, mission or purpose.

'We want the board out!!'

'I think we all do, but who is going to replace them?'

'Thats not our job, we are just fans!! Our job is to...er....want the board out! And if you don't agree with us, we will call you stupid!'

How could anybody not be pulled in by that mantra? Sign me up.

I did respond, and it was up there,

But it isn't now....

Anyway...your a fool..

if you believe that a protest group have the power to sell the club?

Besides, We only discovered the price a couple of weeks ago via Talksport.

You keep spouting you bile... and I'll keep on protesting..

But Arsenal CAN support their manager, as you say they have financial success because of their business acumen, it's their manager that chooses not to use the money available.

Compare and contrast the current incumbents: 13/14 years, not a penny invested beyond shares and two aborted ground moves, not a peep beyond BK's fairy tale FSF jackanory to rid himself of Paul Gregg in terms of investment.

I have read every post on this thread and just reconfirmed my views and beliefs, particularly as they are all supported by facts, some thankfully highlighted by the BU.

I can only now conclude that either:

a) you support mediocrity and stagnation.
b) you are either BK's relation, good friend, employee or BK himself.

If you disagree with a and b above, read all of the posts above again. If you still disagree then god help Everton FC with supporters like you.

Do you have no shame? Obviously not. It appears, along with the kicking and screaming minority that unfortunately exists, that you have a hide thicker than...well thicker than the rest of the unfortunates that are incapable of joined up thinking but alas can operate a keyboard which prevents any meaningful discussion.

Another tip for you.....whilst personally I'm happy for the village idiots to spout their venom, as it only serves to make people realise who's talking sense and who's talking bollocks, when you've taken a devastating blow, stay down, it's for the best fella.

That's what we will have to put up with if we don't get behind protest groups like the Blue Union. He won't sell if there is no pressure put on him or whilst you sit at home on your armchair clapping his mug when it pops up on the TV.

And Colin, let me be crystal clear. Regardless of how you try to continue to try and suggest I 'give up', I will continue to have and express my opinion as I see fit. Your attempts to belittle me are pathetic. And when you talk about shame, you should read through your own personal attacks on fellow Evertonians written on this thread, and throughout the internet actually. I don't think you have painted yourself in a good picture here, regardless of whether your facts are right or wrong. And this is the point you need to consider.

Have you ever heard of an organisation called MUST? Its a United Supporters trust, have a look on Google. That is a great example of how to run a group disillusioned with a football club's board, and also a great example of how to engage people to support a cause. Or have a look at Trust Everton, which is a fantastic idea of a different way of working.

As I have stated many times before, I do not want BK to continue as chairman of our club, and I also would welcome a new owner provided they have the ability to take us forward. And to suggest that anybody who does not follow the BU wants stagnation is simply ludicrous. I will put my support wherever I decide, regardless of the heckling and name calling. And if I understand correctly, a section of Evertonian's have started their own campaign against the Blue Union, or the EABU! Have a chat with them Col, looking at their Facebook page they speak very highly of you.

Look up EABU on Facebook yourself; they are a real happy bunch that have slated Evertonians asking questions and accused them of many many things then edited posts removing any track for Facebook themselves to address false accusations they made.

The site admin hid behind anonymity for quite some time; I'm not sure if they still do, to be honest. I tired of reading the false statements they posted, blaming all and sundry and avoiding the elephant in the room: the Chairman and Board.

They claimed a higher ground despite having less than 70 members at one point. Currently 365 likes but many of those aren't members, just there to joust and ask questions before being blocked. A bit of a comparison to the BU membership, hey, but what statistic do you want to use next? Truly amusing and childish stuff... but feel free to browse away to see if they have changed tack.

I don't support the BU either, not because I do not support change for our football club, but because I do not follow their attitude of 'if you are not with us, you are against us and promoting stagnation of the club'. Or BU spokesman Robby Daniels view that if you are not in the city or above the age of 35, your thoughts do not count. I also do not believe that when money was spent during a recent transfer window, it was down to the BU as they try to make people believe.

These are all my views and opinions. The difference is, I am not trying to shove it down your throat as the only opinion to believe, or resorting to playground name calling if you do not agree.

Worth considering the famous quote..

"Man who sits on fence gets splinters in arsehole" - Kierkegaard

(nb: Big Tez Kierkergaard of Stocky - not the Danish feller)

I am not the BU spokesman, I am a member. When I post on here or Twitter, unless I state it's a fact, it's my own personal view.

As regards the age and location quote, it is my opinion... As is yours about people going the game....

BTW where did I say their opinion doesn't count?

Get behind the protest if you are not happy with Bill... or protest yourself... or do fuck all, but criticise people who will protest???

Lots of the posts on this thread have attempted education – whether or not you take any of it in is your choice; discern what you want from the information on offer. Look, if you are so inclined, as to the ulterior motives for the posts, if there are any.

At the time of Destination Kirkby, KEIOC were decried as local business people with their own agendas trying to keep themselves in work; a lot of this was disproved. Similarly, the motives behind the BU or other groups haven't been self-satisfying but are an attempt to put into the public domain contrasting information the groups feel the need to publish when they see, read and hear untruths coming from the club.

It's a reasonable point to ask those who don't align allegiance to any particular group but chose not to join them – and yet have views against the current regime – what they would like to do when they belittle the efforts of the groups.

My point about local match-going fans is about not supporting the Blue Union. I want board/ownership change like most fans but have no respect for the Blue Union's way of operating for all the reasons I've quoted previously.

I've said it several times and people still don't get it. So, for the final time, just because you don't support the Blue Union doesn't mean you don't want change and doesn't mean you don't see the club's problems and doesn't mean you support Kenwright.

Nobby Daniels – very interested in discussing in person.

Ciaran McGlone – I would be interested in meeting you but you never go to Goodison.