How good was David Moyes?

For him to know the next manager is young, I'm guessing that Kenwright has already decided who the manager will be? Although, to give Kenwright the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he's not made a final decision on who will replace Moyes, maybe he's just decided that age is an important criteria. It certainly narrows down the list of candidates though...

It's time for everyone to move on. I am looking forward to an attacking style manager – Martinez would be my choice. We already have a solid defence, and I would love to see him bring McManaman here and how he will nurture Barkley etc.

As for Moyes, it'll be interesting to see how he gets on at United. He has 2 big question marks for me:

1) He was a bit too cautious for my liking at Everton – was that due to our financial restrictions, or is that just his style?
2) How will he spend big money? I feel he blew the Lescott money – Distin was a massive plus, but the rest was squandered on Heitinga and Bilyaletdinov. Yakubu was bought for £11.5 million, and sold for £1.5 million. Andy Johnson came in for big money and only lasted a couple of seasons, though at least we got our money back. Beattie didn't really work out either.

I know he had massive success with players that didn't cost as much. But I just feel that, Fellaini apart, the other big signings didn't really work out.

Oh well, onwards and upwards.

Next stop lies with BK and who he appoints – I have a sneaking feeling that the decision will depend on where Wigan finish....

All I hope for is for a non-British manager, at least that would guarantee a change in playing style and hopefully a bit more flair in respect to the squad.

It is sometimes said that overdone strengths become weaknesses. I think this applied to Moyes. Whoever comes in can build on Moyes' work by:

Focussing on attack as much as defence, including bringing in coaching staff with specific attacking skills/experience.

Replacing some good, clean, nice 'solid professionals' with some much-needed steel. Watch the ECWC semi against Bayern and you will see a great side put it about when necessary.

Knowing how close we got this season, instilling a belief in the players that we are a top six side, we should beat the sides below us, we can win crucial cup games and that we are capable of hitting the top four. It wasn't the results against the 'big four' that cost us a European place. Lack of money didn't make us freeze against Liverpool and Wigan.

Buying a good striker may cost a lot of money. I'm not sure the other things need to. One thing I really admire about Ferguson is the way he changed coaching staff and adapted his management style to suit some players. I wish Moyes had done this, or brought in some expertise to help, as it may have made the difference is delivering a trophy. I'm sure that now he's at a club where the management will make proper demands of him, he will do.

I'm glad he's gone, for his and our sakes. I'm glad he got the send-off he deserved. I hope our next manager maintains Moyes' strengths and builds on the ones he overdid.

Overall, I think he grew tired of waiting for BK to take the club forward. Joe Beardswood's excellent analysis last week (probably buried under the mass of articles to come in since) shows how he kept the club finishing 2-3 places higher in the PL than they should've, in the last few years.

He was always going to go to Man U it seems. As much as it surprised me, I'd always wanted to see how he managed with better resources. Clearly that's not going to happen at EFC whilst BK has a pulse, and debts to pay, so I'll be keen to see how he does at OT. The media, having "broke the story" to claim they put him there, will be sharpening their knives before his first game in Bangkok.

Good luck Dave, you'll need it. Whilst at Everton, on a cool £4m a year, no expectations, no media hassle save for that year's Baines to Man U etc. story. Plucky little Everton etc. Maybe BK has the right idea all along.

Personally, I think he'll do alright. I will be amazed if he sees the full 6 years of his contract there tho.

Well he's in a new ball game now. Did we ever question referees decisions, right or wrong..........No we didn't as we were too nice.

Moyes is going to a set up were EVERY decision is questioned, right or wrong.

Is the 'right honourable' David Moyes going to allow Man Utd players to continue in this manor or get them to do as he did at Everton.

He has a lot at stake in these type of situations with the biggest crook of all watching from the stands.

See yer Dave. (As Trigger would say).

Then in 09 injuries struck and Jagielka, Arteta and Yakubu went down. Suddenly the vultures started to circle and one by one they were picked off as we couldn't keep the progress of 07/08 going. Lescott started the decline then Arteta and Pienaar. To add to this I think Moyes wasted the Lescott money (Distin aside). We stagnated to the nadir which was th estart of the 11/12 season. Osman and Gueye on the wings - Anichebe and McFadden up top - frightening. Since then I think Moyes has tried to build a new team and was doing it at lightspeed. To think that this current 11 is only 2 transfer windows of actual activity away from theone that started in 11/12 is staggering. Ultimately the completion of this cycle of Moyes' team will have to be taken over by someone else. Hopefully the new manager can sell Fellaini and bring in the ball playing midfielder we've all craved that can take us to the next level.

Zero being Walter's last game at Boro and a 10 being Ratcliffe/Labone/Watson lifting a trophy then Moyes is a 6.

Depending on what you've seen you either declare he's raised us to heights unimaginable or you're thinking ....."6" ....what a load of shite!

Broadly speaking.

He was alright like.

I’ve just finished reading ’Baz’ Rathbone’s book The Smell of Football and there was one passage that struck me in particular.
Just after joining Preston North End as Physio, he was asked by the manager to go to the local country park to sort out some runs for pre-season training. The manager was thinking of promoting a senior player to a player-coach role so suggested they go together to sort out the running sessions. They ran round the park in both directions, did sprints up the biggest hill & then did them again & so on until they felt they had the whole schedule as they wanted.

“Finally, several hours later, we slumped into the car, both knackered. I turned to this guy and said, ‘Wow, you are keen. Is that what you want to do when you finish playing – go into coaching?’”

“He looked at me and said, ‘Baz, by the time I am 45 I firmly believe I will have been Manager of the Season in the Premier League.’”

“It took me all my self control not to laugh in this poor deluded fellow’s face. And of course he was wrong – by the time he was 45, David Moyes had been named LMA Premier League Manager of the Season three times.”

Similarly, at MUFC, with better players available, Moyes should consistently finish in the top 4 & ensure CL qualification – keeping the MUFC snout in the CL trough. How much silverware he will deliver is anyone's guess. Maybe that’s not even the primary objective he’s been set. Silverware counts for supporters, but it’s money that counts for the business – that’s the real prize. Funny ol’ game, innit?

And thats why I think today's game in some ways summed up the Moyes tenure (at least of late) - theres little argue about, but there are frustrations... frustrations that the Moyesiples will complain is just nit picking, but on another day could have cost us as similar (lack of) decisions have cost us over the 11 years. Yes, theres been little financial backing, yes he's a "young" manager, but hes been able to point to this alltoo easily at times when actually its been his stubborness which has been the major problem.

He gave Coleman a chance after people for weeks were suggesting giving him a chance on the wing. His policy of moving players often sems as a hope of, this will prove a point. Mucha, plats out of his skin, and then gets dropped... Vellios scores, gets dropped... Baxter given a start against WBA has poor game, barely seen again... Rooney needs a break - yep, like Owen and Fowler had breaks - just play him burn him out is he going to stay at the club forever; obviourly he didnt. And you could go on and on.

I've said elsewhere that I wish him every success (except against us obviously). He won't be able to hide for long regardless of Fergie's call to support him. The press will examine every mistake when it doesnt go right.

David Moyes started his Contract excuses in December.

Coincidence well you could say that if you were a naive and gullible Moyesophile.
DM Monday 13th May 2013.

All other things remaining equal (particularly the financial situation of the club and the ownership issue), I'd like to see what the next manager does before I judge Moyes's tenure.

Then, based on attendances, league placings, silverware (or lack of), squad strength, and the quality of the football being played, I will understand better how good Moyes was or wasn't.

And as I started supporting Everton over forty years ago, five years is a short time to wait.

Thus IMO, the following can be said with relation to Moyes ( and also to some extent boys pen bill )...

Moyes ' good ' points got us where we are today; his ' bad ' points seem to stop us going further

It remains to be seen if a large squad of very good players and a bag load of cash will negate those ' bad ' points and keep united in the manner to which they are acustomed.

Moyes; The Everton Years, may come under the scottish verdict of...' not proven '

But he was very effective.

That's about as nice as I can be about him.

I wish him all the best at manure but if he tries to adopt the same tactics there, like everyone back for corners, having their main strikers playing out wide etc...then the Mancs will eat him alive.

I have never forgiven him for the RS Semi final and never will. Or the Wigan one. He got the job at United as he's drinking buddies with SAF and is someone who will be happy with advice coming down from above. But good luck to him.

Why don't you now end it all with your Moyes bashing. Besides, give it a few weeks and the new man will be in the Goodison hot seat - then you can start slagging off again.

Out of interest, do you go to Goodison or is this on-line stuff just a hobby?

His first 5 years were excellent, he turned around the playing squad, didn't moan about resources too much and got on with the job. The football was generally poor, our results were inconsistent, but over the course of most seasons he managed to have us finishing a few places higher than most of us could reasonably expect.

The second half of his tenure he's added a couple of gems to the squad, Mirallas, Coleman are excellent buys, and brought the best out of players like Jagielka, Baines etc. We now have a strong, but small squad who are capable of playing very pleasing football.

That said, he also seems to have become too big(headed) for the club. We can't compete financially with the richer clubs and during his tenure the club has borrowed so much money to fund his purchases that we can't borrow any more. He seems not to understand this and kept carping on for more cash while generally refusing to sell any players, or develop those from the academy.

It was certainly the right time for him to move on as we need a manager who can work with what we have rather than what we'd like to have. We need a manager who is able to use the academy and is willing to sell one or two of our more expensive players for big fee's to rejuvenate the squad and lower the wage bill.

Personally I'll be surprised if he's still at OT this time next season. I think the Man U squad is average, in talent and depth but SAF has really maximised their potential. He really is a great manager, who has worked wonders and developed much of their success off their Academy.

I think Moyes will struggle with egos and players on massive wages. I think his defensive, conservative nature may not go down well with the fans who are used to the supreme confidence displayed by SAF. Although Man U are no chelsea or city, I think ultimately Moyes will not be given the time he needs to settle at OT and be a success.

Will you have a moral objection to Martinez or any other currently-employed manager walking away & reneging on a contract to join us?

Suppose Laudrup "colludes," with Kenwright to come to Everton...or Mackay, having expressed their satisfaction to remain at their respective clubs..?

Or, due to your particular principles, will only a currently unemployed manager suit your moral compass?

But then you fell prey to what, imo, is the last resort.

To what is, certainly in terms of debate, pure desperation.

You ask Tim - "Out of interest, do you go to Goodison or is this on-line stuff just a hobby?"

What does this ACTUALLY mean?

Are you asking Tim - do you EVER go?

Or do you mean - do you ALWAYS go?

Or - do you go regularly?

Or - are you a season ticket holder?

Or - have you EVER been?

Or - how many times?

Which games and...

Why the fuck are you asking?

What's the point?

I mean If you tell us YOU 'go to Goodison' we've only got your word for it.

It's the internetweb - to a degree, we're all anonymous so if we wanted, we could just lie.

We could all answer 'Home and away lad'.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

No?

Ok, I'll spell it out.

It's better-blue shite and a fucking stupid thing to ask any Evertonian.

Imo.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/how-david-Moyes-and-the-god-squad-infuriated-a-former-teammate-with-their-christian-faith-8614379.html

Personally, I think he's been our best manager in the last 20 years. However, I still hope for a better one. I'm not sure we will get one, and I'm not even sure there is one out there at the moment that can do the kind of job that Moyes has done for us. Yes, I accept that we haven't won a trophy, and that our record away at the top 4 is truly awful, and in truth I'm not convinced that even if Moyes was given another 10 years that he'd win us a cup or take us into the group stages of champions league. Nevertheless, he stabilised us, and made improvements year on year, and our league position, squad quality, stature in the premiership, improved consistently.

How will he do at Man Utd? I don't know, and I'm not too bothered. However, I do think that no matter what, he'll be there for 5 years or more. Man Utd will give him a lot of time, and given the squad quality, they won't ever be far away from trophies and champions league automatic qualification. They will accept a rebuilding period under a new manager that might last 5 years before success is delivered again.

"I battered Moyes first demanding to know why a big ginger Jock from Glasgow Celtic could play with absolutely zero aggression, putting all of his energies into bleating on about Jesus instead"

I'm buying that book!

It must have grated hearing Goodison Park singing his name, but you are going to have to get over it.

As for your love of the blues - I don't doubt it, but we have all tried to get the BBC world service tuned in somewhere across all the 4 corners of the globe, but that don't mean that you can call blues who rate Moyes as "naive and gullible Moyesophile". You can take it - I ain't.

So going forward, who gives a fuck what Moyes does at Manu - I don't. I mean 6 years at 5 mil a year and the ability to sign any player you fucking want - that's easy fucking money. Well done Moyes. The picture is Peter that ManU want stability and they will get that with Moyes so I disagree with people who say he will be gone in 12 to 18 months. Moyes is going to be at OT longtime and for me Everton need a manager who can replicate what he has already put in place.

To sum up a good manager but not a great manager.

Who'd have thought that DM was part of the Holy Trinity and that his best mates were Comfort and Daniels although before you think he is closer to HK than we thought not Southern and Jack.

On that subject, most of the newspapers appear to be suggesting that Moyes will begin working for United immediately following our game next weekend. I just hope we are not paying him whilst he's plotting and planning on behalf of another club, particularly if those plans include targeting one or two of our best players?!

Without using the word "woolies", my view is that match going fans tend to see a bigger picture than just "slagging off Moyes". I also find that some posters seem to be totally unware of how Everton sort of thrives and asking these posters "do you go to Goodison" highlights how aware they are of the current feeling or mood that comes out of Goodison Park.

I'm not at all clued-up on what the rules are governing contract rules/ etiquette in football, but given that his contract was up in the summer, were Man.Utd legally required to make a formal approach through the relevant channels..?

Or was Moyes free to talk to anyone informally?

After all, aren't players free to do this in the last season of their contract?

I get what you're saying, but I would take it a bit further.

You say: "Everton need a manager who can replicate what (Moyes) has already put in place."

I actually think we need someone better than Moyes to advance us. There has been so much frustration felt at our inability to crack the top-four this season. As difficult as that undoubtedly is, I think we need a manager with a proven top-four resume.

Di.Matteo, Martinez or Clarke would interest me, but I feel a Benitez equivalent is what we need...Mackay, for example, is just Moyes eleven years ago.

I just hope Kenwright can set the bar higher this time round.

It is fairly common for a formal approach for a manager still under contract in Football to require permission to talk to an opposition side about leaving and joining them or have you been under a rock for years? I would hope that we didn't stoop to tapping up and showed some dignity and did things right, tapping up generally ends with a fine.

I am sure if someone actually legally challenged the pre-contract rules in football these days they would win under European Law, but then, why would a club or player for that matter want to pre-sign a contract for 2 or 3 years hence? Its a long time in football.

Ultimately, Moyes would have been slated whichever way he chose to leave the club by those that don't like him and his decision being justified by those that love him.

For me he was fairly average for 8 or 9 years but something clicked and he went up a notch. A very big notch. This is when he became interesting. The squad he assembled has character, unity,spirit and class. He now knew exactly what was required. Unfortunately, the two or three additions which would have put us up with the big boys were out of Evertons reach. This, I imagine, is when he realised he had out-grown us. He had to move on.