Bill’s Big Decision

You were teetering towards hyperbole there but redeemed with some wonderful puns - Klinsmann diving, Solskjaer poking in.

It seems the ITKs have it at Martinez front runner, but with Stubbs to take it when there's some yet-to-emerge breakdown in talks with Rubber Toe.

Sleepless nights indeed for poor Bill. If the new man doesn't over-achieve to the same extent as his predecessor, on largely the same funding, then the chances of his big pay day are as remote as ever, as are our chances of ever having owners with a vision, or at least a plan to develop one.

I still haven't thrown out my betting slip with David Weir's name on it but I will be very happy to do so.

Well, thankfully Mark Hughes is out of the running (gone to Stoke). What a relief to read that this morning.

One thing I have noted (to my own pleasure as I am of the same mind) is how many people are pushing the name Pereira forward. I think it is fair to say that the majority of what we read is from people prepared to support Martinez' appointment if and when it happens and almost justifying it in preparation. However few people are actually promoting him as a positive step for our manager, more rationalising the anticipated fate.

Pereira, on the other hand, is promoted by so many as the candidate who seems to be wanted. I think the front page vote here on TW is slightly skewing the perception of RM too. The question is "Would you be happy with Martinez as next Everton manager?" I think most of us would be accepting of it and supportive as that is what we need to do for the sake of our club (couldn't bring myself to do so for Rafael Beneathcontemptus tbf). Would I be happy if Pereira was our new manager, no I would not. I would be elated!

I will be very happy if RM is given the job. I am not really convinced by VP, as for every Mourinho, there is a Christian Gross. Have been really impressed by RM, and I think he would be in it for the long term with us, and would bring with him a long term plan. He got relegated with a poor team yes, but has anybody cared to check out V Periera's record before he joined Porto, becuase lets just say he was not pulling up any trees. I don't think RM sends his team out to say fuck defending, we will just score more goals, its just he has some really poor players in that back line. I don't think he had the same back four for more than three games running this season, which also makes a huge difference. Am actually really excited at the thought of one of the next generation of highly regarded managers coming to us, and will be looking forward to the new season with excitement ( and a little fear ) for the first time in a few years. Please give it to Roberto, Bill as this VP guy is not the one for us. Even the Porto fans don't like him, which says a lot. And the Wigan fans love RM, even after relegation, which says even more imo. IMWT

I do wonder if the 'Everton DNA' quip was a clue to a backroom appointment, or if Bill was waxing lyrical.

If It's a Stubbs/Weir combo, I will seriously consider requesting a refund for next season, it would be car crash football.

If you thought the last fella was negative - Imagine how much these two would shit themselves at the Emirates or Stamford Bridge.

I am with Stuart (851) on this. If Vitor Periera was so great, why would he be out of contract after 2 back-to-back titles for Porto? I am firmly in the "pro-Martinez" group - of course, his relegation is a concern, and I can understand fans who are worried about it, but as many have pointed out, winning managers like Royle, Klopp and a few others have also had relegation in their resumes. Even the great David Moyes was always thinking about relegation and the "40-point mark" - I remember even in the season just gone by - supposedly a very good one for us - in December he had replied to a journalist that he would be relieved when EFC cross the 40 point mark. With the new riches of domestic & overseas television rights coming into the Premier League, you can be sure that 15 out of 20 managers will be thinking survival at the beginning of the year. More and more teams will dump the beautiful game and play ugly (Stoke, West Ham, etc). We have see what happens to teams like Bolton and Blackburn when they dumped their play-ugly managers and tried to play the beautiful game, they got relegated. In this scenario, can Martinez succeed with his footballing philosophy at Everton? I think he is an intelligent man, and with the players that Moyes has left behind, the best chance of progressing and the least risky would be Roberto.

Would definitely agree with the points you make there Lee. I do think Martinez has his qualities and would be accepted. However, at this current time with all the candidates mentioned we could do better. NSNO.

Imagine that you are Fellaini:

Situation 1 : Martinez is introduced as the new manager

"Er.. I might just follow Moyes to Utd after all"

Situation 2 : Pereira is introduced as the new manager

"Maybe this guy gets me Champions League football and I'll stay"

Pereira is the standout choice - the only exciting appointment out of all the realistic options.

The doubters may argue that he is managing in a league where there are only two major teams, but even so his win percentage at Porto is better than Mourinho's, AVB's and even the late Bobby Robson's. Of all the candidates he would seem to be the only one who could possibly take us to the next level. I acknowledge that there is an element of risk, but we need a change - not more of the same dour Moyesology. It's time for a fresh approach. A creative, attractive style of play and a winning mentality.

I would reluctantly accept Martinez as a poor second because I think he would shake things up - but I don't expect him to improve us. In addition, it would be crazy for our club to pay compensation for a manager with a poor premier league record.

If it's an internal appointment, then I will resign as a fan.

If it's an uninspiring British manager, then ditto.

Thank God Hughes is going to Stoke.

The fact that it is Bill's decision terrifies me completely. I don't trust the club with any decision it makes at the moment.

Cindy exciting is always better though is it. Its like picking a partner, exciting is good for a short while but you probably don't want to marry them. I think Ajay makes a good point in the fact that If Pereira was the real deal he would not be waiting on Porto to offer him a new deal? Also a number of big jobs have come up this year (Monaco, PSG, Real Madrid, Chelsea, Utd, Everton) and the only one he has been linked with is us.

You have to put win percentages etc. to one side. Statistics are often used to highlight various points of view after all.

Overall we should be looking at things rationally. I think Pereira would be a big risk. A team in our position (financially, positionally and with regards to the fact that there are teams out there including our favourite neighbour who are going to improve next season) have got to be careful. Teams who are mid table (fulham or Stoke) and who are unlikely to move up or down or have the finances to rectify problems are in a better position than us to take a punt on a manager, we probably need someone who we are ASSURED will do a solid job. I don't really want to be Pereira's testing ground where he either succeeds and moves on or fails and leaves us in a mire.

* first sentence should be 'isn't always better' (sorry)

Why is everyone going on about Pereira up untill 3 weeks ago no one had heard of him, unlike AVB when he was at Porto.

There are only 2 teams in with a chance of winning there league, very much like Scotland when Rangers were there but would you like Lennon?

I must admit his stats sound great but are league is very different, he would take time to settle in and is a coach not a manager as we know it. He only deals with the first team we want some one to run every aspect of the playing side.

Dont be fooled by the idea of sexy football just because he is from another league, it could go pear shaped.

If he does well someone will come in for him, if it goes bad he will be sacked.
Martinez for me but if its Pereira I wount be ranting and raving about it, he will get my 100per cent backing...

Mark 955

I agree all the way a big risk.

Mark - I hear where you're coming form but any appointment will be a risk, so I guess I'd sooner take a risk which might see us progress rather than tread water. I'm not sure that any of the prospects are assured of doing a solid job.

Ian - I know it's a different league, but it could go pear-shaped whoever we appoint, and if they are successful then they could be off. We are moving into a new era so why not break out of the Moyes mould? We never won anything under him.

Cindy
I to want to break out of the Moyes mould, just glad its Bill making the choice and
not me.

Martinez or Pereira I will be happy .

Fair enough Cindy as assured as possible then! I think this is why I would prefer Martinez. He is a break with the old (I agree this is important, if Mackay git the job I think he would drown in a sea of media comparison to his fellow journeyman Scottish centre half for one!) but also he has the know-how of English football. A safer halfway house

To be fair I wouldnt like to be BK having to make the appointment. He is definitely in a lose lose situation, whoever he chooses will have as many detractors as supporters. I personally cant see any of the candidates getting anywhere near Moyes consistent league placings, so it might be a damage limitation choice.

I would have preferred Michael Laudrup he has done a terrific job at Swansea with less money to spend than Martinez had at Wigan and he won a trophy in his first season. I know some say he will use us as a stepping stone, but who knows how long the other candidates will last.

Like it or not, the Champions League has become the Promised Land. To progress, we just have to get there. We don’t have to do a Peter Ridsdale at Leeds and gamble absolutely everything to reach it, then fuck the club up for years for not making it.

We don’t have to play kamikaze football. Entertaining, yes; consistent results, no. Some of the football we played this year was ace. Have another look at that Mirallas goal against West Ham amongst the goal of the season contenders:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD3Lx2gcjlo

A proper team goal. Without Van Persie’s sweet strike, that might have won the prize.

If we want investment to come we have to make that breakthrough. Everton have a great squad now, a match for anyone. We need to keep the squad together.

Jelavic will get goals if he is played as a CENTRE forward all the time. I still think he can be a 20+ goals a season man. Anichebe is starting to fulfil early potential. Fellaini is a proper talisman who we should keep for as long as possible.

Pienaar is developing a great understanding of working with Baines down the left. Mirallas can torment defenders with mazy runs from the right. Osman has proved he is international class. Gibson, often underrated is a key man with good vision.

At the back we are strong with great leadership from Jags. Distin is a still a great athlete despite advancing years. Baines and Coleman bombing forward is a sight to behold and they have the engines to get back and defend.

We have great youngsters coming through... We don’t need to sell one good one to buy 2/3 who may not fit. We don’t need a bunch of Wigan players who could be great one day and then nowhere the next.

Moyes was great for this club despite what his detractors say but he often couldn’t make that quite right tactical change to turn a draw into a win. We need a leader with proven tactical nous based on season long performance not one-offs. A coach first and foremost a wheeler-dealer second.

I can’t have these comparisons between the Portuguese league and the SPL. It is a far better league. It has been a two-horse race, but this year the Bundesliga was a one-horse race, so are we going to say the Bayern manager was lucky and that Dortmund, Leverkusen and Schalke are mugs?

If it's Martinez I accept defeat on this one.

I don't know Brian? Michu, Pablo Hernandez, chico, Ki sung jong. They cost a few quid. They have been good signings but he spent more than Martinez did last year. I am not convinced by Laudrup, before this year he has not pulled up any trees (spartak moscow, mallorca) other than at smaller clubs (getafe) for a short period of time. Not worth the compensation for me and frankly a million miles from the Real Madrid job on simply his managerial merits.

Mark Pierpoint 955. I'm 78 and have spent my life regretting not marrying the exciting one I met when I was 22. If only...............

Mark surely we should be getting the best man for the job irrespective of compensation payment. I think Michu cost £2 million a better bet than both Kone or Jelavic, his team play good football and more importantly his team were never near the relegation zone. Whereas Martinezs teams are always in the relegation zone, also Martinez has had long enough to improve his teams performance and during his tenure at Wigan he hasn't improved them at all.

I don't see anyone clamouring for us to appoint Jewel or Bruce who both did far better jobs with Wigan than Martinez. Seems the media decided the day that Moyes said he was leaving had Martinez as his nailed on succesor

Brian a few points.

1) I agree that Michu was a great signing. So were all of Laudrup's signings. I am not disagreeing with his ability in the transfer market

2) I think it is unfair to consider Martinez in comparison with Bruce and Jewell. They operated in different financial climates at Wigan where whelan was spending money. Martinez has seen a net gain on transfer dealings in 4 years I think. Also the two, in particular Jewell operated in a different premier league really. The promoted clubs (norwich, newcastle, stoke, QPR, southampton) all come into the league with bigger budgets than Wigan

3) the reality is that the cost of compensation is an issue. Especially if Swansea will look for around 5m

4) do we want a manager who in reality will be looking to move on in a few years. (you may think not, its a fair point of discussion)

Guardian reporting that Martinez to get second interview but Pereira still in frame

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/may/30/roberto-martinez-everton-second-interview

Vinny O'connor says it is down to three on SSN Rangnick, Martinez and Pereira and will make decision over weekend

A few myths on here vis-a-vis Pereira.

1) He has not been offered a new contract at Porto. - Actually, there is a new contract on the table he has opted not to sign at this stage and is not expected to do so.
2) His performance prior to Porto wasn't pulling up any trees (Stuart O'Malley 851). Have you even read his management career path? It appears not. He only managed a few minor teams in the lower leagues and progressed to higher positions at every stage.
3) He is from a smaller league with a three-horse race. Granted but so were his two predecessors who each had worse win ratios in exactly the same environment with the same opposition. I would rather that risk of appointment than to place someone in charge who has failed in our league.
4) Porto fans don't want him. Correct. That is due to Porto's failure in European competitions but looking more closely at their performances and fortunes rather than the result would expose this to be somewhat harsh and highly unrealistic. He is also not the most charismatic manager, unlike the predecessors Porto fans are used to. I don't care about that as, let's face it, we haven't been managed by the most colourful person ourselves for many a long year!
5) "Nobody had even heard of him before three weeks ago." (Ian Glassey 970) First of all, this is highly presumptuous and sweeping of you. Your own ignorance of a person or subject does not reflect that of the rest of us. Secondly, see my answer #4 for reasons Pereira previously did not garner great media attention.
6) "He doesn't speak English/Does he even speak English?" He is fluent in English, unlike many other successfully appointed foreign managers within our leagues prior to their appointment. Yet, if you needed reassurance, there it is.

Hope this clears a few things up. My opinion is not against Martinez per-se. I think he is the best of a remaining poor bunch. Best by some distance, which highlights the paucity of options open to us. I will back him wholeheartedly if he is appointed and hope to be proven wrong but, for me, the solitary prospect to have excited me is Vitor Pereira

I do find the two-horse league argument amusing in this thread as that's just what the EPL is with another four teams fighting for the remaining European places.

It seems quite clear that none of the candidates have bowled BK over. This doesn't surprise me. After reading about their credentials on ToffeeWeb I'm not impressed either. Not enough to entrust them with the running of our great club. Moyes had his faults but he was dependable. Solid as a rock. These guys are not. They may be nice people but this particular job requires a lot more than that.

I'm concerned about not knowing who the 3rd person is

Chris (027), would 'Stubbs' lessen or add to your concern?

Eugene #028

I don't know. Wait I do; it would add.

Last week it was Periera, Martinez & Stubbs. This week it's been Martinez, Rangnick & Stubbs. It's also been Pereira, Bilic & Martinez. Yesterday I was told it's Martinez, Bilic & Rangnick.

With the recent news of an interview and SSN naming Rangnick & Pereira I'm 99% sure they're 2 of the 3. The 3rd one though, I've not heard anything concrete

WHOOPS SSN named Martinez and Rangnick..... not Rangnick and Pereira

I don't quite understand the gloom on this one Harold?. Was I alone watching a season, last time out, where we couldnt lift ourselves to do more than half-heartedly draw a huge run of matches and scarcely put in a performance of note from, roughly, November onward. That is until Wigan gave us a kick out of our complacency hoofing us out of the cup!.

I'm sure that I recall the great Moyes at one point, a couple of months back, pondering whether Everton were just a 'half-season side'. While that may have been a rudimentary attempt at reverse psychology to sting a few ego's and get a reaction its not indicative of the slick, well motivated machine that the legend talks of is it?!.

Regardless of anything else the Portuguese and German blokes allegedly on this shortlist are known scholars of the game absolutely dedicated to playing flowing, possession, football. Now, no one, without surgical alteration, is going to get Jags to complete a pass more than 50% of the time so there is no suggestion that we bring in one of these lads and we turn in to Barca overnight.

There is, though, hope that the days of uninspired players toiling away in full journeyman style...only waking up when someone makes an error and the other lot put us 1-0 down...may be at an end. Thats got to be worth a little excitement at least?.