Unlikely... but why we could possibly finish 4th

Great to see some positive attitude.
In my opinion the more aggressive,quick passing attack minded tactics will see us score more goals this season.
We may well concede more this season, but in saying that if we turn just 5 of our record 15 draws into wins we will be well better off points wise.
Whether we can make top 4 I don't know.
One thing I do know.If you don't believe you can,you won't.

Money is what everyone focuses on and it's true to be a Man Utd, Real Madrid, Barcelona you need tons of it. The difference between ourselves and the really massive clubs is they need massive squads to compete in winning their countries' respective titles and trying to win the Champions League. All we are trying to do is finish in 4th place without any thoughts of titles or European games.

It was impossible for any club to break the old Sky 4 monopoly back in 2004-05 but we did it somehow. In all honesty we should've finished second that year but a poor January window by the manager with James Beattie and trying to defend what we had dropped us down to 4th.

It would be a very hard ask for us to break into the top spots this coming season but I think our best 11 is a match for any one out there, especially with a few new additions and an attack-minded manager – who knows?

What I am sure we will all be glad to see the back of is a manager with little ambition apart from getting to 40 points, who was incapable of putting his own team on a pedastal. Long gone are the 'knives to gunfights' quotes or the 'Baines is the second-best left-back in the country' remarks. At least now we can go out, play some good footy, have some belief in who we are and what we can achieve... and then you just never know.

The problem is that we are significantly worse than United, City, and now, Chelski. Arsenal have a far bigger squad, two pretty world class mids in Cazorla and Wilshere (or approaching that), and seemingly, a readiness to spend this summer, and imminently add one of the best out and out finishers in world football. Spurs look set to add Paulinho, and Lpool are spending heavily. Then the likes of Southampton seem ready to spend alot, and according to some reports, Swansea are going to add Bony, plus Redmond in the coming days. Personally, I think we are limited to 5th...I think we are too far away from the top four, in terms of first 11, and our squad, and even coming fifth involves finishing above the big spending Gareth Bale and Lpool, not to mention the various pretenders, who will probaly outspend us this season.We need money, or to get some fantastic frees.

Honda would be a glorious signing if we could manage it...as he is top four quality. But I fail to see where others of his irk will come in. And we need more depth out wide (Mcmanaman), a top striker (I wanted Bony, and 10mil is great for him imo), another more defensively minded/box to box CM (Fer), and probaly a Heitinga replacement. And if Fellaini goes, we will need to replace him with someone else as well (not just Fer...we need another number in there). If Fellaini doesnt go, where does the money come from? From my estimates, I expect we will get around 3-4 for Heitinga, and add it to the 5/6/7 I expect we will have to spend this summer. Horrible as it is to say, as I think he is a great player, I believe we will benefit as a whole by selling Fellaini for 25mil. And selling him quickly at that.

Next season we will be well punchng above ou rbolemic weight and in top 4. .

COYB

(God I'm bored ! )

I think it goes without saying that we could do with some canny, astute signings and some talented youngsters coming through but that is easier said than done.

In all honesty with our roster of players and financial resources I think RM will do well to keep us top 6. No harm in dreaming though...

May be more fun

Personally we have a disadvantage with the other teams in terms of money, but I think we have a better squad, or certainly a better first 11, were definitely in the top 7 in that aspect.

That gives us an advantage over the other teams.

Unless there's another 04/05 miracle I can't see this squad getting into the top 4 unless there's some major surgery to the back line and the midfield. No team can rely on Gibson's fitness for a whole season and have Neville and Osman as the first choice for a lot of the season. Equally Jags and Distin whils tboth good individually do not work as a partnership and always look as though they have one cock up per game in them (Newcastle at home being the harshest demonstration of this). If we could get a new CB to partner Jags, a cretaive mid to go alongside Gibson and someone to play the number 10 role then we might even be able to consider challenging for fourth.

On another note, off to hear Graeme Sharp at the ESCLA AGM in London on Saturday. Are any other ToffeeWebbers planning to be there? As a former striker, I want to hear what Sharp thinks about the change in fortunes of Jelli. I think part of the problem was the amount of time he spent on the wing last season or on his own up front. Or maybe Sharpie thinks he’s just lost it.

Dortmund is a great model, but Dortmund doesn't have as many monsters to climb over as we do.

We live in hope but a lot will depend on what transpires between now and the start of the season and listening to what our beloved leader says about 'FFP' etc I can see us losing big earners and replacing them with cheaper versions which will not enhance our chances of improving on last season.

I am talking about games we were winning against shite sides the likes of relegated Reading or awful Norwich. In these matches, we were ahead and as the game progressed we sat deeper and deeper and started hoofing the ball down field trying to hang on.

These I'm afraid were typical normal Moyes traits. Moyes never went for the jugular, he doesn't have it in him. Moyes was a "let's be happy with what we've got" manager and it backfired on numerous occasions. It happened throughout his tenure at our club and that's a fact./

Man City have a manager that has never managed in England before, Man U have, well a bottling, tactically inept failure in charge, the RS will be losing Suarez, Spuds possibly losing Bale.

If we can add more quality to what is already a top 6 side, we will be knocking on the door I'm sure, and as we will be attacking more rather than KITAP1, we will win more points against the likes of Norwich and Fulham, which cost us dearly last season as we just couldn't finish teams off.

I'm feeling optimistic.

Short of new-signings, most of us could predict the starting line-up for day one and get within two or three players of being spot on, and that will only aid a new manager getting us off to a good start.

I'm not Neo-MOB yet, but I notice Montainer was axed from Sociadad after guiding them to top four in Spain and has been picked up by the mighty Rennes. Would our board have even looked at him?

Bony - Swansea - really?

We should gazuump as a priority - using, ho hum, yep,
the tele-cash. But we should.

There is a clear sense in your post (Tony) of creative youngish gaffers with teams on a lower perch this minute who are getting some backing (better backing than say Teary Billy) to bring in well-scouted players and these clubs do not carry our weight of debt and they do have - dear God I hate these little subbuteo stadias - new gaffs.

There's more than a hint (Tony) that these clubs are creeping up on us. Not the baggies or the mutants but clubs with a smattering of flair or is the right word today now foreign?

Swans and Saints hit the right notes here. Smallish, well-rub clubs with promise.

I would, needless to say, include Martinez in my list of creative youngish gaffers and would love us to get a similar boost.

Time, months will tell. If we buy well we will obviously be better placed. We MUST sell the costly risky liability that is Fellaini, IMO. We will be better without him and with 3/4 incoming (if Luvvy-Chops hands over the Felli sponds to incoming).

I have a good feeling about Bobby then I remember who he works for, This summer of all summers is so fundamentally crucial.

I would love to put my hands up in the air between Aug-18/Aug-31 and say thank fuck I was wrong. But I have pulsating forebodings right now.

I feel that we are perceived as the good old genuine old-fashioned sort of club who most peeps like and would not begrudge us an FA Cup.

I feel that we are a remote relative of the Sky-land big 4.

I fear that the shite will slip past us in 2013/2014 and that a
Swansea or Southampton will be sniffing at our wooden (Bullens)
heels.

Again, please hammer me next May, but there is no way on this
Earth that we will finish big 4 next year unless, unless something
remarkable happens over the course of the next two months and we pull off a window of windows.

I see Bobby, I feel good.

I see Luvvy-Chops and realism looms.

None of our boards have ever IMO become climatized to the
once new and now oldish world of the Prem.

Teary Billy reminds me of 70's sheep[skin coat chairmen and
big fat cigars.

Sure we might fluke 4th, but until we are one day sold to the
sort of buyer all of us pray for, we will be crippled by Teary-
Luvvy and his cash-caressing cronies.

So, Philip Green, Philip fucking Green, who has at the end of the
'day put a pittance into this clubs and is busy calling his loans in,'
Philip fucking Green, who as I type is thrilled by the fact that the Spuds are buying Paulinho and what renewing his Lane season ticket, 285 million tax dodge.

285 fucking million.

Hey, Bill, this link to EFC is good for me, how about I let
the club have say one-third of my legal but ethically awful
tax dodge. There you go, 95 million sponds.

We will never be a contender season-after-season for 4th
until we do spring cleaning in the boardroom.

UP THE WORKERS

IHHFB

I also mentioned that it was a decent model and about their challenge that money is everything in response to many who were saying there was nothing we could do. - money decides everything.

My comments got little or no response.

I watch The German League every Saturday morning - - many teams have 4 or 5 young players in and the standard of play is not only high quality but quite exciting.

I am not going to say we will finish 4th or whatever - - hope we finish higher of course - - but I am looking forward to a bit of football and not being bored most of the time watching the football and listening to the manager.

Poso waves.

As it is now, we are not a money club funded by muti-millionaires the likes of Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool, even Newcastle, Villa, Stoke!

I think we should be content this season with a worry-free bedding-in period, we can all hope of course, but I think it's unlikely we will finish higher than 6th.

As the club is now money-wise, I think our best option is to try and make Everton the premier club in the league for producing outstanding young players. We need to have a reputation for giving the best young players in the country opportunities to develop, and then not standing in their way if a team like Man City or Bayern want them!

I have a feeling Roberto will be a great appointment, but I think it will take a little time before were able to attain a top 4 spot.

Your argument falls apart when you take into account that this not good enough squad is the same squad that beat United and City and several others in the league.

That attitude should extend off the pitch as well.
When the likes of DM or whoever try to cherry pick our players, tell them to stick it up their arseholes. Sideways. If we have to sell, play hard ball. Up the money and we'll have a couple of your players and you'll continue to pay them next season. Y'bastards.

First words if/when Moyes comes back for Baines, nice and loud and clear so he gets the message.

Rooney, plus cash.

I don't think Rooney wants to stay at Utd, don't think he fancies uprooting his family elsewhere, I think he would come back.
Just a daft hunch.

Not that I want Baines to go, would rather stayed. We have the best player in the world in his position, has to be mental money on offer before we let him go.

In fact I would say that given our inability to spend in the transfer market, the priority should've been switched to the youth policy, and either we've been unlucky or the academy isn't all that its cracked upped to be.

But back to the original statement; 4th?? FFS man get a grip it's only June only the top spot will do NSNO.... 1st or nowhere.

I like Martinez and I want to see him bring in a few exciting players. But to expect him to a) immediately gel into a more attacking and ruthless team, in this season is, I believe, not realistic.

We've lost/will lose several players before any come in to replace them, let alone increase the size of the squad. Hopefully, we will see some of our youngsters given a chance but I don't think we can expect them to just slot in from the word go.

I hope that Jellyfish can rediscover his goalscoring under our new manager, and perhaps have another good forward to patrol alongside him. And if we get a decent scheming Midfield palyer, then I think we could have a chance of getting in the top six.

I can't see us ever regularly getting a "Top Four" billing until we get a Board in who can give the Manager the funds to compet with the current top spenders.

I do see us playing more attractive football and I think we'll have a better run in the Cups, than we did with Moyes.

So that'll do me for starters.

Great post – all things possible with the right attacking attitude and (more or less) this current team squad.

People can pick hairs over Norwich and Reading or whatever they want but asometimes you just have bad performances. Its not a case of looking where we dropped poitns and sayingg 'if Moyes (yes naturally he's to blame for everything) hadn't have done this we would have won and would have got top 4 - ergo Martinez doesn't do this (naturally as Moyes was a taxctically inept bufoon) and we get top 4 happy days)' Its a ridiculous argument that doesn't take into account the form of the other teams around us and Martinez's limitations in certain areas that Moyes was strong in just like he has strengths where Moyes had weakness (but yes sorry to spoil the party early but there will be something about marinez that will be just as infuriating as Moyes' perceived weaknesses - he is not going to be Moyes but with all the bad bits removed).

Overall the squad in its present state just isn't good enough. You can't get top 4 now if you only have one half decent striker in your squad (that's presuming Jelavic is better next season than he was this one). 04/05 broke all the rules but it hasn't happened since and with City effectively leaving only one spot up for grabs it probably won't happen again.

"Challenging for europe", "punching above our weight" and all the other guff has become immersed by this group as well as some fans. Cup failures, sky 4 grounds, derby game records all too readily accepted.

I can see a few shipping out when their gilt edged places come under pressure.

Give it till next year.

Not worth going through all of last seasons highs and lows, because every team/manager has them.

Martinez will have pretty much the same team, same shitty transfer fund and same shitty board. I don't see much changing. We will probably finish between 6-11.