Vellios out to impress David Moyes

I like his comment of “We are Everton”. Vellios is certainly saying the right things, now convert your words into action and do yourself and the Everton fans proud.

Fine by me young'un. We'd like nothing better than for you to prove yourself. make it happen.

I like Vellios, he seems a decent enough lad and did score some good goals while rotting away in the Rezzies last season by all accounts... but he's not a lone striker.

I like velios, I've been impressed with the few opportunities he's had in the first team so far.

I fear he isn't getting much game time though and that with naismith signing, thats looking less and less. Which I think is a real pity as I think he is a good prospect and has already scored at this level. Has a bit of height, too. Don't know what else he can do, really.

With transfer rumours of potential other striking reinforcements coming in, that leads me to think that one of anichebe or velios will be surplus to requirements. I guess we will see what happens...

Hope I'm wrong but not sure I see quite enough in Vellios to inspire me. His touch and movement seem a touch below par for a striker. Has a physical presence and can finish well but has some way to develop before he gets to start regularly.

A lot of potential... yet he's already received the Moyes treatment after some promising performances.

Not likely to get much game time. Pity.

Sorry about the above.

Vellios again illustrates the problem with promising young players who cannot get the games needed to develop. He will not (and should not) be selected ahead of Jelavic and probably not ahead of Anichebe and Naismith at this stage in his career. However, with games he may become better than the latter two. I do not see how this problem can be solved without a competitive U21 or U23 Premier League for younger players or by allowing Premier League teams to have a second team in a lower division.

I'm with Sam on this one.

I like him and there's clearly some potential there but when I've seen him he looks like he's just doing what he's read in a training manual (take ball down, lay ball off, move towards box). He doesn't seem to me to have a huge amount of natural ability.

That's not to say he won't have a good career, there's plenty like that in the Premier League, but I'm not surprised that he hasn't made himself a regular yet.

I also agree with Gavin, anyone who saw him last year could see that he doesn't suit the lone striker role, at the moment at least.

Vellios doesn't do it for me neither. I can remember his goal against Chelsea, and the one against Wigan, but as for general play within a game, nothing. It said it all to me when Denis was getting on before him last season.

Mark - how about he puts a real shift in training and when he comes on. If he scores goals then he will get/keep his place. I don't think Moyes is that petty.

So why didn't he keep his place last season, Ian?

He said all the right things. Sounded good. Let's see what he does. Assuming he has the physicality for the Prem, the rest is up to him. He'll only reach his full potential if he's determined to. That's not up to the manager.

I generally agree with everyone on this topic. He will only become a regular if he scores goals regularly and that may only happen if he plays regularly or at least gets enough sub appearances where he would have to impress in the last 30 minutes, 15 minutes or even less when Everton are not ahead which is difficult to do and even then Moyes may keep him as an eternal sub.

He is big and strong but I agree he is lacking something for a Prem. player.

Should I assume that everyone else thinks that Jelly is lightning fast and an amazing dribbler if they think that this young lad couldn't possibly make it to the same level in a few years? From what I have seen (fair enough, that is quite limited for Vellios) they have similar attributes; big enough to out muscle defenders, able to get in the right areas for goal-scoring chances and able to convert a pretty high percentage of those chances. Of course Vellios has a way to go, but how sure are people that Jelavic was so much better at a similar stage of his development?

"That's not up to the manager. "

-----------------------

Of course it is.

He played well last season and was actually our top scorer for quite some time – and was dropped without cause.

That is, without doubt, due to the manager.

We didnt have Jelavic back then though, Si. If Velios is to get to that level then he needs to play regular, like Jelavic did. He isnt going to get that chance here because right now he isnt good enough. If we were to hope he becomes a decent player, he will need to go out on loan, but our squad size often doesnt allow this.

Si, as I said in my earlier post I'm not debating that the lad might make a good career, and others appear to be saying the same thing.

The point most are making is that at this moment in time it's not surprising that he's not playing, as he appears to be lacking something in his game.

I didn't see Jelavic at 20 so can't compare directly but Jelavic looks to me like a naturally talented footballer, his ability to find space, the way he can turn quickly, his first touch and finishing around the box are all first rate. I think Vellios lacks this natural talent. Just my opinion though.

How can anyone make a real judgement on the lad after a limited number of appearances?

Many established players come over to this country and struggle for the first year or so, then go on to become top players. Let's not forget, the lad isn't a local lad who has come through the ranks, he is a player we brought in from abroad, who had his very first taste of first team action last season and did more than what Louis Saha (established international football player) did, he actually managed to score!

It's all about opinions, but to me he looks like he could be a quality player for us, with the right guidance and support. I certainly hope he can, because as others have mentioned, he has some really good attributes.

Though brilliantly effective thus far, I don't see Jelavic as quite the silky smooth operator that some are portraying him as, and therefore don't recognise the supposed gulf in class there is between him and Vellios, especially given their relative stages of development. I am pretty sure I have seen him mis-control and even miss some fairly routine chances, but what makes him so good is that it doesn't seem to faze him and he will be attacking the next ball and tucking it away.

The impression I get from what I have read about him is that he had quite a slow-burn at the start of his career (5 years at Hajduk Split from age of 17, 35 appearances and 8 goals; one year at Zulte Waregem, 23 appearances and 3 goals) though he may have benefitted from playing at that level, and it is only in the last 3-4 years that he has become prolific. Jelavic was 23 in his first season at Rapid Vienna (he will be 27 next month) and Vellios turned 20 in January this year.

The problem that exists at the moment is that our squad is so wafer-thin that we cannot afford to send some of our better youngsters out on loan as they are required for first team bench duty. I presume the same applies to trying to keep a viable reserve set-up were we can bring through the next crop until they are ready for first team football (on loan or for us).

Somewhere along the line you have to take a gamble and give the lads on the bench more time on the pitch to help them develop. Though he didn't impress when starting (as a lone front man in a side struggling for form), I can't remember a situation where bringing Vellios onto the pitch as a substitute made us a noticeably poorer team and I would continue to use him in this way (though he would need longer periods on the pitch than the manager tends to favour). It will be difficult in situations when the game is still in the balance, but the risk is that we are actually stifling the development of some of these youngsters because we can't give them the appropriate platform to progress.

Si, no idea what Jelavic was like earlier in his career, but from what I saw of him last season the big differences between him and Vellios was movement and touch. Where Jelly makes intelligent runs into space to make opportunities for him and team-mates the times I have seen Vellios (mainly in reserves) he has not shown this trait. Perhaps it is something he will develop; I hope so.

I agree with your point Si, but I think you're preaching to the converted in a way. Nobody that I can see has claimed Jelavic is infallible, nor that Vellios should be written off, just that Jelavic is currently much the better player. I don't think many people would dispute that.

I also agree that bringing Vellios on didn't often make us worse (although that was more for denis and saha so isn't surprising) but I can remember a couple of games where taking him off did make us better.

I also think it should be pointed out that just playing more doesn't guarantee that you'll actually get any better. Of course it can help, but some people on a couple of threads this week seem to talk as though players will just magically improve by playing in the first team. Does anyone think Anichebe is an awful lot better than when he first came into the side? Or Coleman? As I say, it can help but if you don't have the ability it doesn't matter how much you play, you'll only get so far.

I can't fault that, Jimmy, apart from the fact that some people have said they feel that Vellios is lacking something and they don't seem to think he will actually make it as a Prem player. That is what I am trying to get to the bottom of as I would like to see much more of him playing with our best players before I could make such a statement – for instance, do they think he is significantly worse than Big Vic (or just falls into the same category)?

They may be right and I may be wrong (if everyone else thinks he has less to offer than Anichebe then I will concede right now), but who should we compare him to as we don't have a great recent record of producing top-flight strikers of this type (big and powerful target men rather than small and pacy, or a one-off like Rooney) from our youth ranks? Who are we comparing him with, and can we be sure they were more accomplished at his age?

At times, Jelavic (who I am a huge fan of) looks slightly awkward (seemingly operating at the extremes of his balance and agility rather than well within them); he isn't what you would call explosively pacy, and does make mistakes... so can anyone be sure that 6 years ago he was markedly better than Vellios is now (any Hajduk Split aficionados amongst our ToffeeWebbers)?

Just playing at a higher level is no guarantee that a player will improve, but it does work for some players and I would like to see Vellios get that opportunity because I think he may just be the sort that does.

Doubt he will see any game time as people above suggest.

Looked decent and can certainly finish but agree he does not fit into a system with 1 up front alone.

You can't be sure of anything Si, it's just a case of having an opinion.

Mine is very similar to Sam's. Based on what I've seen I think he lacks movement, pace and can be cumbersome. As I said earlier, I'm not saying he won't make it but I would be surprised if he turned out to be any more than a useful player, a similar level to the likes of James Beattie, Carlton Cole etc. If he has that sort of career he's done ok for himself, if he does better then fantastic.