''Terrible start cost us'' says Moyes

Spot on.

Peter, did you watch the game?

If you did, how can you totally dismiss how the players performed?

This is why football fans aren't managers.

Also, what Neville was supposed to add to the team in the second half I do not know. Surely his time is up.

So its not the going out that rankles, but the gutless, inept pathetic first half performance. Whether its the League Cup, Worthington Cup, Capital One Cup or whatever, players playing in a blue shirt in a competitive fixture need to show much more. Moyes blooded a few - a mistake at Elland Road - but Felli and Heitinga looked like they'd rather be somewhere else. Not acceptable.

We also got done by West Brom and Leeds hustling and harrying like we used to do at our pomp. Why can't we cope? The derby matches are exactly the same. Our great side had a fantastic blend of silk and steel. If we had a Cars or a Big Dunc in this side, we would have a complete team. Since we can't, someone within the existing ranks needs to stand-up and be the team's terrier.

The mental fragility shows through in another aspect - we have lost again having conceded the first goal. If we are to win a trophy or qualify for the CL, mentally the players need to be strong enough to overcome such set backs. The 4-4 at United showed a never say die attitude which we need to display this on a regular basis.

Unless you are Man U and you have worldys on the bench chomping at the bit, then these players have to play from the start, even if they are to be rested later on.

Other players can be fed in but it was a big ask to expect all those new players to just turn up and play the way the first team has been.

Let's not forget there weren't just the 6 changes from Saturday involved. We had 3 missing at Swansea: Jelavic, Gibson and Hibbert were all out for the Swans. As it happened, we had 3 able subs in Coleman for Hibbo, Neville for Gibson, and Victor for Jelavic. Who all played well at Swansea.

With those 3 missing from the starting line-up (I appreacite that Jelavic came on in the 2nd half), we started the game without 9 first team regulars!! What exactly did David Moyes expect.

That sort of nonsense would have stretched most squads. It certainly was too much for us.

Hopefully it works as the kick up the arse they need to keep them focused on games like the three coming up. It may just have saved some of them from complacency.

The fringe players had a great chance to come in and put a marker down, but sadly none did that. I thought Gueye and Junior were awful neither got involved at all, in Gueyes case he has had enough games to have done better.
Naismith was another fringe player who failed to impress.

Lets hope that this reminded our players that you have to put the effort in to win any game and not just turn up and expect to win because you have been playing well. Also lets hope our supporters also realise that Moyes plays Osman and Neville not because they are his favourites as some suggest but because they are effective in their positions. So think on next time you ask for a fringe player to play Moyes sees them everday in training and if he doesnt think they warrant a place then thats good enough for me.

Secondly, if your going to change a few, change two or three, not wholesale disruption.

Teams take time to establish, when new blood is brought in it affects the established players too as it limits their normal choices.

David Moyes got it wrong last night. He gambled and it didn't pay off. It was his judgement that the selection could and would do the job. No question about it. This is NOT about slating the players you played, the selection was wrong and they never recovered or looked likely too.

The took Leeds for granted and got justly caned for it. Its what happens when you make so many changes, disorganised, no communication, indecision. What did he expect?

Brian

Neville came on for the second half and was shit.

"These boys are in the squad and have to be able to show they can come in and play. If you don't use them, what's the point in having them? The players want to play and be involved."

No Moyes you thick head, it's your job to KNOW if the players you've assembled are up to it.

You hold onto players not good enough too long we end up with a complacent first 11 who sooner or later start putting their feet up in games.

Rather than winning cups and maintaining the standards of the Utd, Villa games in the league we clock off.

Our only hope of siverware are the 2 cups getting binned out year on year by lower league clubs is a shite R&D policy.

Its all good and well Moyes saying the players are in the squad and need to step in when called upon. However, when this includes i) numerous players who have yet to make their debut and have never played with each other outside training, ii) away to a warnock leeds utd side and iii) terrible weather, you have to also really question the team selection from the manager.

Only thing I can say to maybe back up Moyes is that he may have looked at the oppo and weather precisely becasue of these decided to rest more 1st teamers, not because they needed a rest (its only sept ffs) but mainly to avoid getting anymore key players injured (given Gibson and Jelavic's recent injuries). It would have been a disaster if a pienaar or baines had gotten injured in those conditions from a 'full blooded' flying challenge from a pumped up leeds player.

Whatever the reason, we're out so no point dwelling on it. I for one am really disappointed. The cup may not mean as much as the FA cup but its a trophy non the less and 17 years is a ridiculously long time. I'd rather win this and finish 12th than not win it and finish 8th!

Onto the fa cup........

Too many changes = Moyes fault, players not being arsed about the game = Players fault, whole equation means it both the players and managers fault but as usual Predictable Peter solely blames Moyes.

Rusty players, a disjointed team and a poor first goal. That's what happened. There is no way David Moyes can claim he really wanted to win this, or he would have played a full strength 11.

Take it on the chin I say, as long as we don't witness anything that bad again this season.

A headline of "Everton squander another cup chance" wouldn't generate as much reaction / controversy as "Moyes squanders another cup chance"

The words are not chosen by accident. Or did I miss the "Magnificent Moyes Slaughters Swansea" headline last Saturday?

My point is simple: We go in waves. We have our ups and downs. One day we'll go all the way in a cup competition. But for now, sometimes it will happen and sometimes it won't, that's the nature of our team. The best will be that we do well enough to stay in the top-half of the league table and try to nick in a European place. As for us winning a cup at this moment, it's like buying lottery: you just don't know, at times we can beat ManU, at other times we can't be arsed to beat a Championship team.

That's what Leeds players showed on the night. Did anybody notice how they were time-wasting to preserve their lead? That's a sign that they wanted the cup more than Everton on the night.

When we lose, it's because of Moyes and 'Moyes Lost'.

I often think the man is a victim of his own success. Believe me, there are few managers out there that could have achieved what he has given the paucity of resources and the circumstances.

I have a friend who's a big Villa fan - a few seasons ago we were comprable sides competing for 4th-6th. Now look at them.

Another mate is a big Newcastle fan. Yes they finished above us last season but over 10 years compare records.

Even Spurs, City (pre Sheikh money), etc. I am annoyed by our ineptitude to win 1 off important games but I'm also realitic enough to know that few could do a better job

All I know is, had Pienaar, Baines, Jelavić etc picked up knocks last night, I'd have been fuming.

Shitty cup for mid-table muck (ie RS)

I like the spirit. Makes me feel better about the loss.

This is the one competition that we had a realistic chance of winning so why he put out THAT team god only knows...that is why we will NEVER win a trophy under Moyes. It wouldn't be so bad if he had come out afterwards and had the humility to admit he got it wrong...but unfortunately Moyesie doesn't ever admit he's made a mistake just makes a defence of what was a very poor team selection.

He ( and Round) stated before the game that Everon were very serious about winning this cup competition then he goes and puts out THAT team...!! a complete contradiction of terms to say the very least.

Quite simply...IMO if you want to WIN trophies you play your STRONGEST team...you won't win anything playing your rezzies !! especially when your rezzies quite clearly aren't good enough !!

I'd much rather finish 8th in the Premiership and win the League Cup than finish 5th in the Premiership and qualify for the Europa League...oh sorry forgot....guess what comes with winning the League Cup ??? Automatic qualification for the Europa League.
Despite our decent start I'm not foolish enough to really believe we will finish in the top 4...IMO realistically 5th is the best we can hope for so why not win a trophy along the way ??? Moyes baffles me at times...he really does

Coleman is starting to worry me, he just doesnt look a defender, constantly on the wrong side of his man, and is proving equally useless going forward.

Im yet to see an even half decent performance from Naismith, and the experience we did start with last night just didnt support the others well enough.

Fair enough..............maybe thats why he has let Ross Barkley go on loan and we haven't seen Vellios play this season?
There are a number of people on here who have demanded a chance for the younger players and that claim Moyes never gives them a chance......but then when he does give them a chance he gets slaughtered for it..........the man cant win!!

I was thoroughly pissed off after the game last night but there were two positives I tried to focus on,
1)No injuries picked up
2)Brian Oviedo looked quick and enthusiastic down the left, in a team playing really badly he at least managed to show a little bit of quality.

As to the comment that Moyes should know if they are good enough from Barry just to me sums up some of the more dumb posts on this forum.

He gave away the free kick that eventually won the game yesterday, and did the same in last season's Cup Semi with a ridiculously rash challenge on Gerrard two minutes from extra time. It's not nearly good enough. Perhaps he needs to drop a league or two and "make his mistakes there". But at a club that uses him as a defender, or else we ONLY use him as a back up midfielder, or sell!

Every place in the Premier League - £1 million

But a few bragging rights would have been nice

Also, sod the money, I want to see Everton win something for once!

Steve 292, my point is quite simple, the Leeds players were more up for this one, that is the beauty of cup football, players at clubs in lower league positions get their chance to have a go at the big boys. Its great when we knock out utd etc, but when we get knocked out (fielding a second string team) its the end of the world, the manager is shit, the players useless and the pies like dog shit. Sack the manager and sell fellenni for 50pence

Naismith worries me. I expected him to be a lot better...

Doesn't he just... I keep thinking of Steve Watson.