Barkley strikes twice in Owls win

I was disappointed when he went to Wednesday but the supporters of David Moyes seen it as another example of his wisdom. Is there a single Evertonian who wouldn't like Barkley in the squad for tomorrow?

If he has a stormer in the month recall him.

If we hadn't had the injuries he would have still been playing in the u21s, which is pointless for him at the level he is at. He needed something in the middle of u21s and premiership, I.e where he is now.

Anybody see the game? We won't get the highlights here in the US for another 12 hours or so.

Lets put into perspective his loan spell. It is hugely encouraging that he seems to be getting decent ( if not universally positive) reviews. But he is playing at a much lower level and today is his first winning performance against a woeful Ipswich side.

It was apparent to most that saw his performances that he was not ready for the PL, given his age and recent bad injury. A loan spell in the Championship seems a good opportunity for him to be schooled and if necessary learn through his experience.

It may feel frustrating that we have a potential gem but he is not the answer yet. If he was he would not be on loan.

It's always easy to fall into the trap of heaping expectation onto unknown quantities, FFS there are those calling for Hitz to be chucked into the derby game, even a few who admit they have never seem him play... (Take a bow, Jimmy!)

So Andy (#571) no I'm not too worried but I do live in hope that one of these days he will take a derby match by the scruff of its neck and show the world what a player he is.

It is a moot point because the decision has been made to extend his loan, but there is no proof in any of this that Everton couldn't have made good use of the lad at this moment in time if the manager was prepared to show a bit more faith in him.

However your second paragraph takes some beating. There is no proof for something that hasn't happened, well just take a minute to think about that.

Got it yet?

People are trumpeting this as the best thing for the lad and the club and shooting down people who think he may be capable of coming-off the bench for us in a period where we are low on truly capable midfielders. Just pointing out that it is simply opinion versus opinion rather than case closed for those who think he is not ready for our first team.

Do you get it?

Some people make it sound as though they KNOW better or that their opinion is more valid than the person they are disagreeing with, often by making wholly subjective comments which they cannot actually substantiate. Sometimes I feel like pointing out this nonsense.

Let's not get hung up on much, lets just agree its a lower level. But a higher level than the U21s.

Finally however you get to the nub of the argument. Should he be developing in the Championship or playing first team football. Do I go with your view or DM's?

Let me just think about that for a minute.......

Neither of us can prove anything one way or the other, and to be honest I am not trying to convert anyone to my way of thinking. Just pointing out that your unsubstantiated opinion is not sufficient to convince me that you have an answer that I cannot grasp.

We are discussing opinions, you have your say I have mine. Yours on this matter in my opinion is a crock of shit. We will never be able to 'prove' anything.

I really don't to want to change your opinion, I just want to highlight the inadequacy of your argument.

Firstly, I haven't actually put forward an argument of any kind, merely pointed out that your comment seemed excessively disparaging, which actually makes it an argument for the pointlessness of the loan which you were patently trying to support. To 'highlight the inadequacy of my argument' you need to explain how playing at a MUCH lower level will improve the player more quickly than training with the Everton first team and making regular and substantial appearances from the bench.

Not all opinions are necessarily unsubstantiated as they may be informed, for instance, by circumstantial evidence of a level sufficient to persuade the majority of their merit. The only thing you have offered so far is your apparent belief in the infallibility of Davey when it comes to his decisions over the development of Ross Barkley. As you have no evidence in this matter your opinion is open to the definition of being unsustantiated (as indeed is mine and Andy Crooks in this matter, but I have NOT attempted to shoot yours down, merely pointing out that it has no inherent ability to change the opinions of others).

I think the two goals today will do him far more good, in terms of competence and confidence, than sitting on the bench tomorrow would have.

Keeping in mind that he's only 18 chronologically and even younger as a professional -- he lost a year to the broken leg -- count me as an enthusiastic supporter of Moyes' decision to loan him out. This lad needs to PLAY, not sit and watch.

He's getting repeated 90 minutes against career, adult professionals. Right where he should be at 18.

That's a phrase I've never heard before.

The lad wasn't in our first team plans so he's gone on loan. I really don't see the issue. He will return a better player.

"...to gain experience, you've got to play."

Uh, Peter, hello?

That's what he's doing at Wednesday. That's what he's not yet ready to do for us.

And as for this ongoing fantasy about Vadis, give it a rest. You haven't the slightest idea if the guy is any good. You've never seen him play -- almost none of us has -- and you've got him in the starting lineup already.

Go back to sleep and wake up when you can start making sense.

Forget all this pedantic nonsense over whether you are making an argument, giving me your opinion or blowing smoke out of your arse.
I don't claim DM is infallible, I believe that only applies to the Pope and there are plenty of altars boys willing to argue that one.
However I would be more persuaded by DM's opinion on the matter than yours because
A) he's more experienced in these matters and
B) he's seeing the lad in training every day.

Could he be wrong, of course he could. Do I think he's wrong , no.

His second was high class. Takes ball down on the d of the penalty box. A quick change of weight to his other side, and then smacks it in the bottom left hand corner outside the penalty area. Keeper no chance.

Barkley had two cracking games for us, then had an average one... and then was dropped. Moyes handled him badly.

He should be at Everton... Not risking injury in a hacker's league.

Steavey, I think you saw a different game to most TWebbers - Osman was MOTM yesterday and Neville put in a good shift.

Ross Barkley is off improving his game that will eventually help him and Everton realise his potential - take a look at Wednesday's results and performances with him in the team.

So, that cahill role, would he get ahead of Fellaini at the moment? No. Naismith, pienaar, osman or mirallas? No.

So he would be warming the bench. Is that productive for a young player needing to play football? Of course it isn't, so loan him out! It's not rocket science!