A good start thrown away

I might be in a minority of one here but I'm actually a little worried there is no Neville. Hitzlsperger looked well off the pace against Sunderland, I hope he can step up. It will be nice to have a player in the side who can really hit a football.

Apparently we've been all over them, but only have the one goal to show for it...fingers crossed missed chances do not come back to bite us. Would be really good to see a clean sheet as well, especially as our defending has been the one major negative of this season.

Great style of play but our current problems relate to dodgy defending and failing to capitalise on good play and chances..

Oviedo on for Naismith..

No particular analysis, just frustration. The kind of game where my only real reaction at the final whistle is "Fuck off Everton".

Poor game defensively, Howard really not inspiring confidence today. Heitinga and Coleman also poor.

Jelavic is starting to worry me, he rarely succeeds with anything nowadays. Sadly we have no real candidate to take his spot.

Naismith just doesn´t cut it in the premier league. Got his goal, but he looks off pace most of the time.

As for the 10 chances we are missing every single week, the whole squad needs to take responsibility for that, we can't solely rely on Fellaini and Jelavic, I've seen Jagielka miss 5 opportunity's to score this season, each one from only 4 yards out. Maybe if we start deducting wages for these dreadful misses, we might start getting the points are overall performances are deserving.

I delayed watching the N London derby and come on here at full time. Arsenal are the team even with their defensive weaknesses to get into the top 4 and if we can't win games at QPR, Reading and Wigan we can forget Europe never mind top 4. WBA beating Chelsea will also give them a confidence boost and are well placed to stay under the radar.

If our friends from over the road go on a run, we'll have to hope for an English club picking up 'old big ears'.

Football is all about scoring more than your opponents and if you fail to take your chances, you can forget any hopes of top 4 regardless how much good football you are playing.

But defensively 2 clean sheets from 11 tells its own story.

I stand by the point I made on another thread, Moyes should have body-swerved any talk of what may or may not happen in the Jan transfer window as those players with real ambition will start to look for another club.

What exactly did Hitzelsperger do wrong? Or Oviedo for that matter?

Were was the overlapping full backs, the cut backs, the intricate triangles, the closing down, pressuring their defence - even when we were on top in that 30 min spell in the first half we never looked convincing.

The thinness of the squad is showing and to a lesser extent the players shoulders dropped as though they are forever jinxed with poor ref decisions and poor finishing.

ps: Get rid of that black strip — played 4, lost 2, drawn 2... ZERO wins!

Take your fucking chances or we will be back were we were last season...

Well at least in the last 2 games when Coleman gave away goals some TWebbers blamed Neville so now Coleman's done it again it must still be Nevilles's fault.

Right?

Coleman again costs us. The sooner Hibbo is back the better then this bloke can go and work on his defending.

Also, why is it when a team is on a bad run, as soon as they come up against us they win? And strikers who haven't scored in ages always net when they play us.

Things like this happens time and time again.

Totally pissed off.

Illogical as it sounds, did we miss Neville in midfield?

If we don't beat Norwich at home then very soon indeed our 'great start' will become a 'mediocre third of a season'.

The referee had a big part in our loss today but it's not the only reason.

Coleman, as good as he is going forward is fuckin useless at defending. Thick as fuck football is what he plays. He can't read the game for toffee.

Pienaar has been rubbish for months and Baines was just as bad today.

Did Osman play in the second half.

Hitzelspittle was better than Neville but that's not really difficult is it.

Heitinga can fuck off in January for all I give a shite.

In fact, at the moment I couldn't care less who goes.

So Neville is out for a few months, Fellaini suspended, Gibson still injured. Who's in midfield next week?

Inevitable comment. But the answer is simply no. There was nothing wrong with our midfield build up play today... It was defensive and conversion problems.

Hitzlsperger played very well.

Coleman is really a wing back and he just can't defend. When Gibson plays he drops in and covers Coleman's space, in effect making a back 3. When he doesn't play, then Coleman is an accident waiting to happen and I cringe every time he is near our box.

The Baines and Pienaar link has been poor recently and that has cost us; again, Gibson's covering allows Baines freedom to attack. The only answer is to move Felli back to provide the defensive cover but that lessons the attacking threat. I think that this is the only option though.

Everyone is getting at Jelavic, but despite his apparent dismal performances he still has scored 5 premiership goals this season... at his current rate, he is on for about 15-16 over the course of the season...he was also away in the summer, and plays in the qualifiers, and unlike the likes of RVP, Rooney, Aguero etc, doesn't get rested. Strikers have form periods, and off form periods, just give him time.

We have a very good first 11, but no squad depth. We will not be able to get top four, unless we invest in January. Our squad simply cannot take the demands of an entire season.

But, it is only one defeat. I think we will beat Norwich next week, and Fellaini's injury is perhaps a blessing in disguise; at least now we will have him for the Arsenal game, which will be one of the most important games of the season, as they our biggest challengers for the fourth spot. Mirallas will also be back next season, and he has become one of our most important players.

Shame about Neville. He has his critics, but he is a dependable and disciplined presence, and we will miss him. We need Gibson back big time, but good to see Hitzelsperger get through the match.

It's quite possible for a question to provide a commentray on the opinion..

You obviously had some reason for raising it..

Anyway, for me, the answer to your question is, certainly not.

Watching Norwich at the moment and I'm not so sure..

I haven't seen a bad team this year... even QPR have a very good team despite Hughes's inability to get anything out of them.

My reason, having not seen the game, was simple curiosity. I think perhaps you assumed something else, I could be wrong.

Thanks for your answer, i'm guessing we will be seeing more of Hitz in the next few weeks unless Gibson recovers from his long term injury.

Does this mean the phoney will be working 24/7 again?

I wouldn't depend on anything right now, esp a win vs. Norwich (who are putting up a good fight v the manure)

We have been leaking points for more than a month and a half – I guarantee you DM is not depending on 3 points at the moment.

I wrongly assumed you'd seen the match.

However, our defensive failures were not due to a failure to cover... Hitz did that as adequately, if not more, than Neville ever has.

Our defensive failures were simply a direct result of bad defending.

I like the lad but he's awful at defending. He might get better, who knows. At the moment though, I can't wait for Hibbert to come back.

Giving stupid penalties away and not picking up your man is down to him.

(1) Jelly – not enough quality service and admittedly there was a howler in the 1st half but I was deeply impressed by his holding the ball and general play in the 1st 45

(2) Hitz. WTF a skewed shot that might however have been a pass (when it ought to have been a shot), but he was creative, looking forwards, not giving the ball away for the most part and he is not frightened to have go/shot.

(3) And dear Lord after what ten minutes or Ovideo is thrown into the slam hat. Dear Lord, went pear shaped well before he set his polished foot on the pitch. Take a long hard look instead at the 1st choices who did not show up in the 2nd half.

Do slag off;

(1) Fucking Howard. OK we have strong cases for liabilities, he is either #1 or #2. His charge out of the area, flapping, losing the ball, not bossing the box. He is a fucking liability. And priority #1 if we have any window sponds is someone good enough not just to keep the fucking flapper on his toes but to step into his shaky shoes.

I feel we might be being just a little hard on because he gave away such a fucking stupid pen:

(1) Coleman. Has anyone mentioned on here his simply fabulous tackle a few minutes earlier that defo stopped a goal because we have the fucking flapper on goal and one-on-one with him is usually a nice little shoe in for the other geezer on the ball. Kill me, hate me, call me a fool, I don't care. I felt that Seamus was having a perfectly decent game up until that fungus second that understandably is the focal point on here but shadows all the decent things he did before then.

1st picks defo worth getting shut of in next window:

(1) the flagging dutchman
(2) Coleman?

Sir Sainted Leon Osman prize for going missing in matches

(1) Nuts - congrats Lad
(2) er Osman
(3) Nay, Nay, thrice times Nay

Everton FC Ladies Team Prize for complacency after great 1st half

(1) Everton Mens Team: congrats.

Lord Martin Dobson Prize for midfielder who looks classy when all around him is failing and flailing:

(1) take a bow Felli

And last but not least: Gormless Mike Walker prize for gaffer should take some of the responsibility for a shocking performance by six or seven of his players who lacked motivation:

(1) Moyesie

Conclusions:

(1) We will not finish top-4, no way
(2) No sponds? then sell JH and get some decent loaners next window
(3) Hitz deserves a run in the team
(4) Nuts needs a rocket up his divine godly pious ass
(5) Jags has become a good central defender again, all of a sudden
(6) Nay Naismith, let's go down the Costa Rican route
(7) Duffy?
(8) drop Coleman for who exactly?
(9) Feed jelly
(10) keep Felli at all costs, kidnap him, disguise him (hair cut), keep Felli.

The wheels are coming off unless we convert more chances into goals. Distin needs to return and suddenly right back is a serious issue with no Hibbo and now no Neville to step in and give Coleman a much-needed break as the lad is making some clearly awful mistakes and looks exposed.

Very disappointing as even the shite are catching us and the good start is getting derailed by too many draws and this poor defeat by a poor team.

Depressing stuff emerging from Moyes re no resources to buy or even loan in January, and a bench today which had some exciting prospects but was a little on the young and inexperienced side to rescue a stuttering second half performance as key men like Pienaar, Fellaini, Baines and Jelavic have another bad day.

A good win against Delia's mob will be vital to regain momentum but December looks very tough. I dared to dream for a bit that we actually had something going on this year but all those draws and now this daft defeat suggest that the small squad, injuries, and loss of form could combine to damage the optimism. Shame, but this is Everton and who knows what's in store?

Breaks your fuckin heart this game.

Osman was dreadful as usual. He reminds me of the clueless Mike Newell (despite the size difference). Newell never knew where he was on the pitch – and the England maestro is the same. Any PL team with him in the middle of the park is asking for trouble – unless you're 4-0 up with 20 mins to play. Then, he's just about OK.

So long as it doesn't mean a return to KITAP1, with our current form we would end up doing neither...

No need to shake it all up just better finishing and goalkeeping please.

Too many players taking it for granted that they're in the side.

I suppose that's what happens with a small squad.

(1) has anyone said 'shake it all up': names, numbers, ID's please?
(2) you have managed to squeeze two fundamentals of the game into a trite few words, scoring and stopping goals as if some magic will come along and fuck me it's all rosy and the sun is shining again. Stone the bleeding crows, why didn't I think of that, the team virtually goes AWOL 2nd half but keep yer air on we just need to score and stop. It aint darn rocket science is it? Repeat after me, 'score and stop, score and stop, score ... '

Who'd Adam and Eve it, I feel so much better now after that acute analysis and diagnosis. Nothing else wrong, I see it now, 'score and stop, score ...' We have one of the shittiest flapper spur-of-the-moment-prone-to-insanity keeper and zilch back-up, but, no worries, we just gotta stop the other geezers scoring, sorted.

Hold on tight boys and girls, we're going tpo four with Hoare; 'score and stop, score ...'

One small comfort, I've just noticed we've played two more away games than home.

Bad day at the office, pick up move on...and all comments agreed re Coleman. Hibbo get well soon!

It is a strange season... City are top, despite playing badly for much of it...Chelsea, who looked untouchable to begin with, now look flimsy, and Norwich just beat United...Probaly puts out result into perspective a bit.

On the plus side, one year ago, we were playing absolutely shit...since then, we've cleared out most of the overpaid/poorly performing players, added Jelavic, Pienaar, Oviedo, Gibson, Mirallas, Naismith etc and are enjoyable to watch now. When Hibbert and Gibson return, i'm sure we will look a little more defensively solid as well. Just a shame about today, because we could really have done with keeping clear of Arsenal and Spurs before our results toughen up. West Brom are also playing fantastic, but they won't be able to maintain it for the season.

But we must strengthen in January. Loans will do, but we need numbers.

You've contradicted yourself in your own statement there mate.

"If we got the penalties all those missed chances don't matter"

Penalties aren't given goals, they're just more chances. If we miss those too who do you blame then?

So many of us said it, but those four draws against four teams we are much better than have cost us a solid top four spot. 20 points instead of 28, and now three dropped points to a team that hadn't won since April.

In a realistic world, next week we'll have the same squad to choose from, minus Fellaini. What do we do? Hitz did enough to get the nod...

Colman, Jags, Heitinga, Baines;
Naismith, Osman, Hitz, Pienaar;
Jelavic, Vellios.

is what it pribably will be. My 11:

Distin, Jags, Heitinga;
Coleman, Osman, Hitz, Pienaar, Baines;
Jelavic, Vellios.

I know people will jump at me, but Oviedo looked impressive again. Perhaps Baines needs a rest for a game.

Either way, with a back three Coleman won't be required to defend as much as he is now, and we'll have three decent halves.

I know Norwich are going to be difficult, but the timing of Fellaini's fifth yellow is as good as a bad situation can get. Better he miss this game than the next. Does it then clean his slate, or is he on even thinner ice?

WBA 2012-13 = Everton 2004-05

Everton 2012-13 = King Midas in reverse

1. Everton dominating possession in final third.
2. Everton missing a boatload of chances.
3. Everton hitting the bar in one of these chances.
4. A dubious refereeing decision that influences the game in a major way.
5. Everton concedes from a set piece because of zonal marking.
6. A random error by Seamus Coleman provides fans a scapegoat for why we lost.

Our season so far in brief. We are fantastic but oh so infuriating.

Clumsy ain't the word...

If you had read the thread you would see my earlier post (005) stating that I did not watch the game and therefore am not in a position to give the 'acute and shrewd diagnosis' you seem to require.

Instead I offered a very simplistic and short observation based on the match stats and what I have seen in previous games. This observation highlighted two areas of concern in particular.

The first was that I think we are weak in the goalkeeper department, an observation that you seem to make yourself at 025!

The second was that we are being too profligate in front of goal, an observation that Moyes and countless others on this website seem to concur with.

Maybe I've ticked you off on another thread but really can't see why you are having a go at me for writing a short comment?!

We need to tighten up at the back (whether it's Howard's fault alone, I doubt) and start hitting the target.

Pretty simply put but there isn't much wrong with how we are playing in general.

Even when playing as we did yesterday, we should have been 4 up in the first half and we hit the woodwork AGAIN in the second.

It's the effort we put in second half that pisses me off. Non-existent.

Strange.

You have to bear in mind where he has come from and how long he has been exposed to top-level football without coming through the system. What you are seeing is a lad cutting his teeth defensively at the sharp end and he is currently feeling the heat. Going forward he is great, provides us with an extra dimension and he can learn his trade defensively. But he could probably do with a few games of watching, learning and working on the training ground to give him a rest mentally.

For me, he is aggressive, pacey, dynamic and as he develops has all the tools to be a very good right back in the division. Trappatoni seems to rate him, Holloway loved him and Moyes seems to think he can have a dart at it. The lad is a good player but naive and currently being exposed. I would expect Hibbo to give him a break when ft as we need to tighten it.

Defensively.... we need to stop the set-piece goals; however, we are very "open" in style at the moment and the need for a holding payer is paramount as the centre halves are getting exposed. If we can get to the window and get one in, then when Neville is fit again (and we will miss him badly, he will be more appreciated when he's back) we can go with two holding players to be tighter, hopefully. However, we are hostage to injuries and suspensions and even yesterday, when they are only just starting to bite, the bench looked thin.

This period is crucial and we have to consolidate. Home form will be vital. We need to keep in around 4th/5th/6th and keep digging points out, there is no outstanding team for 4th place. Stick in there and get to the window and hopefully Moyes can work in a couple of loans.

If we can loan in a holding player and some extra up top, that would be great. I'm hoping we can stay in range and then freshen it. We need to get back to grinding points out even if we aren't playing well and rekindle some of our general Moyes solidity with the new-found flexibility.

Maybe Piennar could be included in the quality list, but he and Baines are playing poorly just now ....but have patience they'll be back. But no matter what Hodgson says a lightweight midfielder who falls over, with no speed, no shot and who couldn't head a sponge, cannot be considered quality. You know who I mean, but I must admit he is playing better now than I have ever seen him play before. But still not a real threat going forward.

When will an Everton midfielder run at a defense and "dare" a defender to trip him? Only Moralles. And when did we see a shot (apart from Hitz) from a midfielder coming up to the penalty area. Never. Only Baines comes forward threatening something.

So I expect not too much. We are doing pretty good considering the limited quality we have

I am starting to believe that we will start next season without Moyes or Fellaini and the rot will set in. And the shadow of our nearest and dearest is starting to loom all of a sudden... with our fixture list of the next few weeks, expect that gap to shrink.

The big-moneyed teams don't need help in winning games but week after week, season after season they get that help in bucketloads from Mother O'Riley's handmaids.

Admittedly Everton should have buried another team away from home but when Referees and their assistants are making up their own rules to suit themselves then the game is a complete waste of time and isn't worth the effort and time involved. See the Man City penalties against Villa yesterday for example, would we have been awarded them flimsy decisions, I very much doubt it.

Imagine if Suarez played for us (God Forbid) , he would spend more time being suspended than he would out on the pitch , and that is the problem with the officials and the media , it's not who you are it's who you play for.

Our goal keeper is rubbish
Our defense if shocking
Our Midfield doesn't have a decent player
Our strike force doesn't deserve the name.

We have no chance of finishing forth.

Hmmm that's strange because when I look at the league we are 4th. FOURTH. The fourth best team in the land. We have lost fewer games that Man Utd. We have had more shots than any other team in the Prem.

I understand the frustration that and that we want more, but this is the best team we have had for 20-25 years. yes I know we finished 4th at the start of Moyes managerial reign, but I don't think anyone would argue that this this is a better team.

I think the fight from 3-6 will be competitive this season, anyone from us, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs and errrr West Brom. I know that is 6 teams and four places, but I think the league will be tight this year, apart from first place where I think Man City will waltz it, and Man Utd will chase them through SAF bloody stubbornness rather than the greatness of the team.

So my summary, we could finish anywhere from 3-6, but we definitely are not shite.

Sorry for the half empty outlook. But let's face it we have all been here before.

Do anyone remember the 90s - abject fucking mediocrity with one bright spot of 1995 when we finished 6th and won the FA cup. Other than that, we were shite. No the shite that people think is shite today - 13-17-15-6-15-17-14-13-16-15 were our Premier League finishes until Moyes came along - including that fucking nightmare against Wimbledon where we could have gone down. Put it in perspective - we're so much better now than we have been in years.

I would say that the form of Pienaar and Baines has a big impact on the scoring stats for Jelavic. They have both stunk the place out the last 3/4 games and crosses and passes aren't getting to him.

I hadn't considered her. I think she's a free agent. Nice piece of lateral thinking – in fact, there's plenty of lateral there.

Players like Jelavic love being the focal point of the attack. He has three attacking players around him (as well as Osman) and they all have only him in the box to pass to.

He has suffered a little from Mirallas intent on over-shooting occassionally but otherwise he would have had to share his supply with another striker.

You can't argue he hasn't had the chances either, for some reason he's just not put them away this year, perhaps he's gotten complacent because we do seem to give him so many damn chances to score (probably why Big Vic has the hump too!).

I think psychologically Everton are a very weak team. They came out in the second half feeling sorry for themselves and Reading just took the game away from them. They lost the will to win against a team who will be relegated.

Everton have now dropped so many points so far this season when they shouldn't have done and I think they are getting more disheartened as the season plays out. They haven't got the inner strength to win at all costs. We also try to hang onto slender leads which is also shows mental weakness.

My most disappointing match of the season so far was the derby match. I was hoping for a big reaction from the nervous shambles of a defeat against Liverpool in the FA semi but from the start of the match they dominated us and quickly went 2-0 up. We are still mentally frightened of them.

I think Everton have the football ability to be 4th but mentally they are one of the weakest teams in the Premier League. I think this reflects on Moyes ability as a manager. He can spot a good player but I don't think he can make him a winner.

I guess some of us are natural worriers though.