Moyes requests cash advance for Champions League push

Tremendous from Times reporter Tony Barrett who has cut through the recent nauseating charm offensive which our fans have been subjected to, offensive actually being the most applicable word, is there anyone who believes a word Bill actually says? Gawd bless ya Bill, YOU’RE THE MAN!

Tony’s exposed what Moyes has actually told the board and hit the nail on the head in terms of how this board has failed the club, the fans, and most importantly of all, the manager, since taking over from Johnson in 1999. They’ve not spent a single penny in terms of investment in the club, the stadium or anything else for that matter because Tony is 100% correct, but they’re expecting a fine return.

Somehow Moyes has crafted together a team that can play football and compete with most of the Premier League... most but not all. To take us further we need a few players in January, which will give us a shot at the top four and then a couple more in the summer to have a chance at progressing in Europe. Sell a few of the players we don’t need by all means but don’t leave it until it’s too late and by too late I mean any time after this window. Yes it’s a gamble but all business is a gamble, not like putting a tenner on a horse, but you take calculated gambles, most of the fans trust Moyes but do the board?

At the beginning of the 2011 season, after two years of not investing in the squad just selling player after player and saving wages,  fans had had enough, took to the streets and voiced their opinions in the media. Exposed for what they were in emails and transcripts the board changed their tune and Moyes was allowed to spend again, still they sold and made a profit but the additions of Gibson, Jelavic, Pienaar and Donovan for a few weeks changed the performance of the team and we climbed the table away from the dreaded relegation zone. We continued to freshen up the squad in the summer of 2012 and with a few more additions, and despite a few departures, look where we are. Now for the push, you’ve failed us time and time again Bill but don’t dare fail us this time.

We’re now in the years where the accounts of teams that qualify for Europe will be examined, even if the board bring forward some future payments through a loan or loans, it’s no different from what they do now with borrowing against future incomes, they’ll easily pass FFP.

So come on Bill, don’t lets us down, don’t let the manager down but most of all don’t let the club down at this crucial time, you have in the past but here’s your chance to prove to the fans that you really are the biggest Evertonian.

Bill, don’t just say you haven’t got the money, it’s your job to provide the manager with the funds to compete not just shrug your shoulders and say sorry, where would the world be if we all did that?

Make a statement Bill to the fans, the players and to other clubs that Everton are here to compete. Please don’t offer up some weak excuse, you’re here to provide money for the manager, if you can’t do that then call it a day and let someone else who can attempt to provide what you can’t.   

A beautifully balanced, concise and poignent article. I do hope this featured in the printed news and not just on The Times' website.

This has restored my faith in football journalism and, considering the likely lack of interest in the subject matter to neutral (Sky era) football observers, investigative journalism and editorship of quite noble integrity too.

Red tops look on with shame.

Tony Evans and Tony Barrett both reds but both openly speak their own views including an uncomfortable acceptance of the club's heirarchy response to Heysel, both reporters worth a read as open and honest.

Crikey what an excellent article. If it us accurate then it is truly make or break for the current regime. Two good buys, hold onto the key men and you never know. If funds are provided then maybe some faith can be restored re. the top table, if not they do not deserve to run this great club.

Fingers crossed

To be fair the journalist has articulated what many TW's have been posting for some considerable time.

Will Bill - sounds a bit like a film title - listen and give DM what he needs and what he wants?

Fantastic article and highlights the honesty of David Moyes.
This man has worked miracles to firstly survive in the premier league with sub par personnel and then build a squad which is playing the best football since the 60 's.

Each season this club have sold more than its bought and DM has diligently welded together a team of cheap players compared to our neighbours and the supposed big four.
Now they are the equal or better of every team we have played this season.

When the list of players sold are added up plus the wages they were paid then it appears we now have a superior first eleven which operate on a lower budget than before.
All the high earners have gone and our acquisitions have been low cost but good value.

I believe that DM is as much an EVERTONIAN as any manager we have had and wants the best for his team.
He would love to be able to bask in the success of a quality Everton team that has confounded all the multi millionnaire clubs.

Our neighbours have spent a fortune over the past four years and dispensed with quite a few managers whilst Davey has been at our helm.
This board must back this man and the fans who loyally support the team home and away.
Now is the time to invest and live up to the club motto !

This needs to be shouted from the rooftops of every Evertonian and inside every pub. This needs to happen, there is simply no reason why it shouldn't. It's not even a gamble, it's putting money in now that will be returned soon through guaranteed income of a new TV deal. No excuse not to get those checks ready.

So here we are, finally, with Moyes re-upping as Manager. He'd never have requested this without knowing the money was there.

On to you ownership.

David Barks is 100% correct IMO. The board simply must provide the necessary funds as there is no risk whatsoever of not seeing their money back.

A short term private loan consisting of £20 million (four separate £5 million loans by four exceedingly wealthy people?) that is guaranteed to be repaid in September when the TV money hits is a full stop no brainer with zero exposure.

That's a bit of a run-on sentence but you get the idea...

Evertonians should be screaming from the hilltops to exert as much pressure on these folks as possible.

I have £200 in the bank. If I invest £5 now, knowing I will get in back in about 9 months time, and it may pay good dividends, why the hell wouldn't I do it?!

If they don't cough it up now I see no other logical conclusion other than they really don't give a fiddler's fart about Everton Football Club.

Maybe the money's already spent.

I grew up with Tony Barrett and played football with him when we were kids, a red through and through but also a good journalist and always writes favorably about Everton.

Now is the time to invest. If we harbour any ambition of being a top 4 side then 20m must be found for Moyes. If we can't afford to bring players of the quality of baines and fellaini then we might as well sell them and start bringing down the debt. They are top 4 quality players so you can't argue if they want CL football elsewhere. T

The way I see it there are 5 clubs vying for 2 available Champions League places: Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Us and.. Liverpool. Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. We really need to up the ante to overcome these traditional strong clubs, not only financially but mentally. I'll be looking for proven winners to come in and give the other players belief we can do it, more than any young prospect. Huge gamble we need a proven winner.

I've just watched BK on the OS with part 5 of his interview, I don't know what to make of what he is saying. He says that he personally is not in a position to release funds and that disapoints him, he adds that he welcomes an individual or an institution to buy the club, he didn't say it had to be the 'right' buyer as he has previously stated. He also said that it may happen this month or hopefully this year.

Someone once told me that if a person is talking and they constantly look to the left then there is a fair chance that they may not be telling the truth. I am not qualified to support this theory, perhaps a TW with insight into this type of thing might throw some light on it.

Maybe that Tolman thing was a plant by the club or maybe it wasn't! Who knows? But it looks as if there is no take-over then there will be no funds, more's the pity.

James Flynn #729 He hasn't re-upped yet, I see this as ' I've invested 10 yrs in the Club ( a lifetime in footballing terms ) and I am prepared to invest another 5, unless the Club Invests in Me ....* leaves it hanging

Surely it could only happen this month if talks were already at an advanced stage, Patrick?

I notice that this thread is based on the rumour that DM has already stated in private what I was intimating he could have made clear in his after match interview (without being condemnatory of the board).

Is the rule that he is not allowed to publically reveal what is widely believed to be the case, ie, our current board members have not gone particularly far in backing the manager from their own personal fortunes. Who does that benefit? Is it important that such information is kept behind closed doors, beyond saving face?

The problem is with a gamble it equals more debt and less of a chance of a buyout. The problem is BK and his asking price. If we did get into Europe, what then ?, the people putting in the money will expect more back and it will be probably a one season shot. The reality is you would be borrowing money for the champions league now, then you will have nothing in reserve for a decent shot at it, and qualifying next time. Really what should happen is the board should drop the asking price, we get someone in and have a proper go at it.

It could happen that we get through the group stage, if we get through the qualifier that is. I still think we might be patching up our problems only to face the next financial challenge. I dearly would love Everton in the champions league, but do we really have the funds to take it on properly at the moment?.

On another note should the heading of this read ,

Moyes requests cash advanced lucrative contract for Champions League push

?????

Clive, could you not borrow now against the TV money, and then in the summer look for something similar based on the expected revenue from a European campaign?

Obviously the second loan is more of a gamble because it would be reliant on getting to the first Champions League group stage or probably the second stage of the Europa League, but it doesn't rule out the initial cash advance.

Perhaps the y have the money earmarked for the debt? Realistically 10 million of the extra funds would be reasonable, the rest to manage the debt.

Well yes it could work, but it would leave no margins for errors, Moyes would have to be very shrewd with his signings, but realistically would this generate enough in the long run?.

I think if the board do what they have done each year & by all accounts that is pretty much naff all, I think Moyes will be on his way, shortly followed by arguably two players who could easily walk into any European team and not look out of place.

I also think that Colin Wainwright #740 hits the nail on the head with his comment

“Maybe the money's already spent.”

Who would be shocked if that was true, think about it, these cronies have probably know for a while that extra money would be available once this new TV deal kicks.

I dread the morning when I wake and read the headlines “MOYES QUITS”

It wouldn’t be the first time a manager walks after not being backed by the board? Isn’t that why Royle left? After being refused the money to buy two players? I can’t remember the player names.

Si, on a smaller scale, that's what happened in 2005. We got quite a few players in that summer with Champions League in mind and then didn't qualify. If we borrowed against future money this window (which I think we should), then Moyes would need to get in the players needed to both finish in the top four AND go on to get through to the group stage next season. Massive gamble, but I don't think anyone should be in business in a football club if they're not willing to gamble - it's business plus sport, which are the two biggest gambles in life.

Should Moyes get his 20m, he'd be getting Bosmans in in the summer, and we'd need a hell of a lot of new players if we expected to compete in the ECL and remain a force in the EPL. Every player in the 25 man squad for the EPL would need to be match ready - at the moment you'd only call 15-16 ready. That's not enough to fight two fronts.

Didn't Kendall walk after being refused the funds to buy Dion Dublin from Coventry City?

It would give us the funds to compete for the rest of this season and push for the Champions League. If we came up short, we'd still have those players next year, with that money coming in. It's not a gamble of spending money we think we might get by qualifying for the Champions League. It's borrowing money up front that we are guaranteed to help push for a Champions League spot now, and at worst give us a strong squad to start next seasons push. Whether that be the Champions League or Europa Cup. He has the leverage now, to waste it would be a shame. I sincerely hope he's asked for it.

Patrick 755

My understanding was that looking to the left was to do with recall and to the right, creation.

In other words if BK looks left he's remembering what to say and if he looks right he's making up something.

Having said that, he could be remembering the right lie.. I think a good rule is, if they look away they generally are adding something to the thought that requires some degree of concentration.

Earl, Woods and Grantchester each to give £10m to the club, £5m a loan against TV money and £5m investment. That's £30m to spend on new playeys at a total cost of £15m to three people whose combined fortunes stands at around £1.5 billion! Is that too much to ask after 10 years of hard graft by Moysie? Can't they see that this is possibly the key moment in the clubs' history since the great days of the 80's? Come on guys, are you really going to miss a poxy £5m each to push this club to glory?

Could somebody please cut and paste Tony Barrett's article on here? I don't subscribe to The Times so haven't been able to read it, but would certainly be interested to do so if there are any Times-reading blues out there...

Drew/Patrick - not as simple as that - depends on his dominant sense (audio, visual, tactile) - different places to look for each of them so you can't read anything into it

C'mon board. Total no-brainer, by effectively 'doing nothing' not only will you give us the chance of CL qualification you will also have propaganda to use against the Blue Union when you carry on actually 'doing nothing' further down the line. Surely even you can see the sense in that!

20 million quid eh? I don't know what Moyesey would do with it but I'd sign Butland and Holtby like a shot.

It is clearly opportune to muster resources at this most exciting period of the club's history. We clearly cannot afford to lose either the manager or our three best players — if this were the case, I believe we would never recover to current levels.

9 million loss just been posted on the club's accounts, can't see Moyes wishes being granted anytime soon, my fear is that he will be gone in the summer.

Green, Earl and the Grantchesters are coming across as the typical 'wouldn't give you the steam off their piss' mllionaires/billionaires. It used to be understood that owning a football club costs you money but that the chance to be pivotally involved in the passion, the artistry, the excitement and drama of the beautiful game was worth splashing out for. But these owners don't give a flying fuck for all that.

After all these years, we shouldn't be begging them (probably Kenwright) or quietly threatening them (Moyes) or urging them (us!) to spend some money. They should have spent it already and WRITTEN THE FUCKING DEBT OFF!

Also, I don't blame Kenwright for all of this. It's the people with the deep pockets and short arms that are holding us back. The money men control the direction of the club not the figure head, he's just there to take the brunt of the waves of unrest.

Yeah I saw the losses posted today - this is not good news and probably means even tighter budget than any of us imagined.

http://www.evertonfc.com/assets/_files/documents/jan_13/efc__1357208599_Everton_Financial_Accounts_201.pdf

Patrick 755, I did my University degree dissertation on lying and there are no repeatedly proven visual cues to point out lying as opposed to non-lying. Indivduals may have differents 'tells' but there is nothing universal...at least there wasn't when I did my degree in 2004.

On another note I really don't understand our continued and increasing losses. We have a tiny squad that has been in Premiership for years and has for the last decade done pretty well in cups and league. Is it just that goodison park does not bring in enough revenue compared to the bigger clubs...or is it sponsorship and global presence. Or is it poor club management? Probably a bit of them all I guess.

Lloyd Farrell @768

Wasn't it Torre Andre Flo?

Or we could raise £20 with a share issue. Use 9.1m to cover the loss, spend the rest on players and still have the 20m when it becomes available.

This will not happen of course because it's all about power. The current owners are not prepared to dilute their shares.
They could also have a share issue and purchase the shares themselves. Oh no, Bill doesn't have a penny to purchase any new shares. Hence loss of power. Therefore, will not happen.

Even Peter Johnson had a share issue to raise money.

First of all let me say that I am not a supporter of the board at all and think that they're behaviour and (lack of) leadership has been totally inept. However, there is actually no obligation (legal, moral or otherwise) for any shareholder to inject further own cash unto any company. I do not expect the board to invest any money into EFC as they have already (indirectly) done so when they bought their shares in the first place. Therefore I feel that people having a go at the board for not 'putting any(more) money into the club' are wrong imo and missing the concept of owning shares in a company. By all means have a go at them for their incompetent running of the company as well as the lies and other cock ups along the way, however you cannot really beat them up for not putting more money into the club.

I also don't agree with the fact that we should immediately borrow against the future (higher) TV revenue and splash the cash now as 'it our last opportunity' to break into the CL. Mortgaging our future income to the hilt is exactly what got us into this mess in the first place, having borrowed against our gate receipts for about 30 years back in around 2002, the quasi sale and lease back of our training ground etc, so panic buying in the Jan window does not seem to be the most sensilbe thing to do. Maybe this could be something for the summer when i) there is more time to consider who to buy and do the deal, ii) the question of who the manager is has been taken care of, iii) contract talks with other players have been finalised, iv) we know where we finished in the league and can consider whether we're in Europe or not.

If you look at our last financial accounts (published a week ago), you'll see that we made a loss of 9m for the year 2011/2012, on top of the loss of 5m from the previous year. These losses would have been even higher if you take out the 'profit' made on the sale of Billy last year and the one off sale of the training ground the year before. Our current expenditure is far too high compared to our income and borrowing another 20m to place a massive bet on a couple of Jan transfers is too much of a gamble for me.

We need to look at the longer picture and get our accounts in order and reduce the almost 50m of debt that we have. We currently spend about 5m a year just on interest paymentst! I thinik we should use some of this windfall money to substantially reduce the debt and finally sort out youth development! Our youth development is beyond a joke - we do not have a single player in the first 11 that came through our youth system in the last 10 years ffs! (Hibbo and Osman were before that I believe). This in my mind is nothing short of ridiculous for a club our size. I cannot understand why with our supposed 'world clas' training facilities and youth academy, we have failed to consistenly produce players who can make it into the first team. I don't expect a Rooney every year but surely one player every 2-3 years, who is good enough for the first team, is not too much to ask for?

Sorting out the financial side of the club will also make it much easier to sell - assuming the board are actually interested in selling for a realistic price, which does not seem to be the case.

Anyway, we'll see what happens in Jan - as previously mentioned, Moyes should sell Jonny if he wants some cash, and reinvest this in 1 or two new faces. A CM and cover CB would be my priority.

This board is a shower of shite and will not invest a penny piece!
End of story.

Denis 862..I totally disagree with you.This will be our last chance to qualify
for Champions League so I say roll the dice and gamble..Whats the worst that could happen.Its not as if we have anything to lose.Sooner fall flat on my face trying than tread water for eternity..

Sam Hoare #849 - not quite on point I know but you have mentioned a couple of times in recent threads I've been reading that you're a London born and bred blue. Likewise! I only know one other down here - we should try to go to an away game or watch a televised match in the pub or something. Drop me a line - manboulle@gmail.com.

Ray and Lloyd

Yes, the story goes that in late 1993 Kendall wanted to sign Dublin but the board refused (allegedly because of the colour of his skin or because Kendall's drinking was getting out of hand and they wanted him out anyway)

Tore Andre Flo was Spring 1997 when the Johnson regime refused to let Joe Royle buy the Norwegian and Big Joe walked.

Why don't the supporters look at setting up a trust and buying out some of the current owners???

If Barcelona can do it, then so can Everton! At least with an ownership share there could be a seat at the boardroom.

Then the current pathetic commercial side of the club could be overhauled to provide a decent revenue stream for the club.

Niall,

Try this
http://www.trusteverton.com/
Taking a while but these things don't happen overnight. This group is set up to try and purchase the assetts of the club rather than the business.

A better model than the Barcelona one in my opinion.

Ray Roche #850 & Andrew James #885

Spot on, gents... After seeing our accounts for the last year of £9 million losses... Would this mean if we stand still, We would see a £10 million profit next year ?

For me, I can't see Moyes being at the club in the summer, unless I am missing something or there is something going on behind the scenes we don't know about.

Andrew, I heard another, which was he turned up to Goodison and declared he had acted on the Boards' advice and got Rideout, the astonished Board responded saying they had told him to get dried out.

@Ian Smitham - very funny Ian... lol

Again, as I've posted so many times before, re "The Board"... they (the board) are hanging around, collectively or individually, waiting for Kenwright to implode financially under the pressure of his own bloody cock-eyed jasper-grasper like dealings... Then they will sort the club out between themselves/individually. He (Kenwright) tried to get Earl into the Kirkby fiasco, so he's weary.

Grantchester and the others won't touch him with a bargepole, because he's a pretentious no-mark-cum-shyster who nicked the club in the first place, and who's hocked the club to the hilt etc etc... ad infinitum!

Simple as.... THEY WANT KENWRIGHT OUT!