Moyes rewarded as Everton's top earner

Wasn't he calling for 20% pay cuts not so long ago?

The manager should always be on the top wage, if the team doesn't perform, he gets sacked.

A player doesn't perform, he gets benched or kept in the team if there is no-one to replace him.

How often do you hear of a player being sacked? Mutu, Bosnan....ermmmm!

Nice of TW to bring it up as a negative and get shit stirring.

You have to be as dull as dishwater not to see why BK loves him, like all illusionists you need an assistant to distract the slow witted while the sleight of hand takes place.

Those who can see don't murmur you know how it's done .... don't want to interrupt the clapping.

Surely the question is really: Are there more managers out there who are better or as good as Moyes at fulfilling his role, or more players that could adequately replace Fellaini et al?

Real nice, create a straw man and knock it down. Of course, nobody is on here saying Moyes "achievement" is avoiding relegation every year. When he first arrived, yes, that was an achievement since we were battling relegation during those times. Now his "achievement" is battling for a Champions League place and consistently being contenders for Europe every season, and putting together a very good squad that allows us to do so. All while knowing that in the transfer market he will always be outspent by every other contender. That's his "achievement", turning around the fortunes of this club and making us one of the top few clubs in England again. Making us a place that every club hates having to play and giving fans the belief so that if we lose to the likes of Chelsea, or even draw against the likes of City, we are bitterly disappointed.

Us thickos and apparent happy clappers can't see that Moyes is taking us for a ride and is the Devil incarnate etc etc.

The amounts are obscene and he is paid far too much, as is Jags, Fellaini, Osman, Hibbert etc etc but as most will agree, a manager should be paid more than the staff he manages.

Too many punches to the head I think.

First of all, the story is based (it actually uses too much of the original text which I've now amended) on another news site's article so we didn't bring it up. We're merely reporting the news here,

Secondly, I'm Not sure how reporting that the manager earns more than his players is a negative and amounts to shit-stirring. I would suggest that you are so jaundiced by an apparent belief in this site's inherent negativity that you'll jump on anything.

Thirdly, I'm not even sure the Mail article is accurate. As far as we know Moyes is on £65k a week, whereas Fellaini's deal is, I believe, worth £80k a week.

Ultimately, they all earn far too much anyway but that's another argument.

The top list is reportedly

Jose Mourinho - £10m per year
Mancini - £7.5m per year
Guus Hiddink - £6m per year
Wenger - £6m per year
Carlo Ancelotti - £5m per year
Jupp Heynckes - £4.2m per year
Alex Ferguson - £4m per year
David Moyes - £4m per year
Philipe Scolari - £2.8m per year

Liverpool finished four points behind us last year. Did they 'avoid relegation,' too? Did runners up Man.Utd? Is he comparing Everton to Wigan, for example?

The abundance of top eight finishes overwhelmingly point to a team looking upwards, rather than over their shoulders.

For the life of me, I can't possibly understand why anyone would posit such a puerile perspective.

Especially if it is the manager handing out the contracts.

"battling" and "contenders" is spin for "nothing" and given the woeful return of the Europa competition does 6th actually mean anything?

Call it how it is - existing - because bar one CL qualification that's all we've done under Moyes the assets of the club and the Rooney money have been transferred onto the playing staff so is the "better position" anything other than utilisation of that money?

This is the illusion, the Kenwright version of the 3 card trick and it's worked beautifully get a steady eddy coach who'll sell when required put up with bargain basement buys, (one or two are bound to come good) and jobs a good 'un This decade has been about avoiding relegation, check Moyes and his "40 points" quotes if you're in denial.

The "no relegation" thing prevents Kenwright being in the cross hairs of all but it's the "grubstake" money gained from the fire sale of EFC (see above) that is the key. You'd have to be some kind of cretin to get us relegated given those circumstances.

People talk as though we got relegated under Walter - guess what? - we didn't! and those players plus Rooney by getting back to basics were good enough to exist in the division - sound familiar 10 yrs on - EFC don't get relegated.

The caveat to all this is the length of time some have been hypnotised by many pages of vested interest journos and ex players preaching the Moyes and Kenwright gospel means 6th will be greeted as the second coming. there's a whole generation who think this is and always has been EFC.

Personally it'll be just another season without a trophy and existing in the division - no CL, no cups .. oh! but we've played a bit of footie at last - Thank god for small mercies eh? (well at 4 million quid ???)

Moyes deserves his wages (relative to the over paid silly money profession he is in) because resource wise we have more in common with lower half of the table clubs. He delivers top half finishes, cup runs and gives the Club and the fans some self respect and pride. Yes, we all want more but we only have the expectation of more because it is David Moyes who has changed how we look at the club. 15 years ago we all expected to be relegated sooner rather than later not finishing in the top 8 on a regular basis.

So 5th or 6th is just avoiding relegation is it?! Very strange concept of a relegation battle.

Now if you can't see the difference between those years and where Moyes has us now, one year qualifying for the Champions League and every year now contenders for Europe (possibly Champions League again this year). This versus every year battling at the bottom of the table and being "contenders" for relegation then you are simply a fool who is "hypnotized" by your own negative BS.

If you, or others, think it's not acceptable and fall into the usual trap of entirely blaming lack of money and hence BK you need to examine the Moyes/Kenwright relationship.

Why exactly does Moyes trust him? Is he not ambitious to win things?

Because every Moyes follower I've heard on here says it's impossible to win anything withouth the dough!

The answers are most likely something to do with 4 million quid in which case as long as he sells players when Bill says and Bill ups his wedge every few years or so this EFC will continue exactly as it is, exactly as it has since Moyes arrived.

See it is related, abracadabra.

His management abilities were not the only incentive for his appointment.

I asked how your question logically related to my post. Can you not see the non sequitur? My post, if true, is true for any club, regardless of chairman. I've said nothing about what I think of BK, or Moyes, or their relationship etc.

See, easy as ABC.

Did he 'get the club' when he rested players for the Anfield Derby?

Moyes has improved us no end....just because he comes out with bullshit rhetoric about the 40 point mark, doesn't mean he believes it...it is just one political spin, in a game where managers bullshit alot. And we know Everton's game isn't about avoiding relegation...check the finishes if you're in denial.

And one or two buys have come good? what sphere are you living in....I wonder sometimes whether you are an Everton fan. Try Baines, Lescott, Jags, Distin, Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar, Jelavic, Gibson for starters... try a 500,000 a year net spend....there is NO established premier league team who have advanced as much as we have, on so little. That is why Moyes is praised...that is why he gets accolades. It is not because the world isn't bright enough to see what you see.

Barry, you are living in the past. This isn't a film... a new manager isn't going to walk through the door, give a few great speeches, and then turn this club into title challengers. You can wait for the only way we can get back to the top of the game, barring investment: gradual progress. Or you can go get your football journals out, and read about the good old 80's again.

There is one magical ingredient in football these days; money. Moyes has had the transfer budget of an average Championship team during his time at this club...and we are fighting for the Champions League this season.

4 million quid has proved magic to some lucky fella.

Liverpool, for all their supposed financial problems, and there lowly league position, can still spend 12m on Sturridge this month. They can just buy their way up the table. Chelsea, shaken by a poor season so far by their standards, can trigger Demba Ba's clause in his contract. They can just hand out 9m for him, 7m fee plus 2m to his 'advisors', and then whatever obscene wages the guy asks for. Spurs will always have some money for transfers and I can see them spending several millions this month to try and cement third or fourth place.

All of these clubs can just spend their way out of their troubles and up the table. For me, Moyes is being paid that little bit extra than the managers at these clubs because he has a small fraction of their resources to try and do the same job.

Am I happy with it with the lack of resources in general, or his wages in comparison to our overall budget? No, of course I'm not. But the trade off is that he is having to do the work of a manager, the board and any potential or would be investors in terms of keeping the club afloat.

It would be nice if he won trophies, and that's me being polite. Considering however that he hasn't moved into his office fulltime yet, just to try and keep on top of his work load, I ain't going to be too hard on the guy.

Think I've read? Is this your answer to facts? to pretend they don't exist? you've come out with nothing tangible... just bullshit on bullshit, which stinks of idiocy.

Mental issues... pot, kettle, black.

look imagine if Moyes had gone after his CL fiasco and instead of predicted relegation we got a "Wenger" someone who did the impossible generated his own funds, made a whopping profit, transformed the club into the most attractive team in the uk and on top of that won everything!

It's why I can't be doing with people who cite "negativity" regarding criticism/change of Moyes it's absolutely not .... if you aspire it's the most positive thing you can do.

(I should have used capitals for "if" bearing in mind many seem to "perspire" rather than "aspire" if Moyes and the word miracle aren't used together.)

Jim Knightley 314 is spot-on.

Fair play to you, you must have the clubs motto tattooed on your bollocks or something, but you make Moyes sound like some kind of chancer, which only puts your opinion in the point and laugh pile.

None of us will be happy until Everton are where we should be, but we recognise the bigger picture which, from your numerous posts show, entirely escapes you.

I also love the way you reference Wenger...from the subjective way you discuss Arsenal (spoken to any Arsenal fans over the past few years?) to the way you represent Wenger's miracles. Don't get me wrong, I think Wenger is a genius...but in the past 10 years, Arsenal have gone from being the best team in the country, with arguably the best team in the history of the league, to a consistent top 3/4 team. They are currently 18 points off Manchester United, and sitting behind us in the league. They also have a much bigger squad and wage bill than we do, and haven't won anything since 2006. And Don't misread Wenger's profit now, as related to winning stuff before. There is a big difference...funnily enough since Wenger started generate massive profits, they've gone backwards. But yeah Barry...money has nothing to do with it.

But people will object when you are so seemingly reluctant to give DM any credit and also have some unrealistic expectations based on our current resources.

If Moyes wins something I'll take it all back haha!

Thats more like the Barry I used to have lots of spats with!! Always ready to point out that its all fair in love and war!!

Thanks for making me laugh today with your amusing comments.

The Chelsea game was significant we were superb, yet every time Chelsea got the ball their £20m plus superstars oozed danger and class. Team like that have the class on the pitch and bench to punish you and finish off games that we do not eg. Norwich, Fulham and so on. Yet we with a bit of luck could have won.

To be so close in the table to the likes of Chelsea is great going and a reflection of a strong performance from DM.

For me the article posted is neither provocative or stirring things up, it is an interesting fact, right or wrong. No reason to have a pop, maybe a debate but not to attack Moyes, Kenwright or TW.

I can not remember enjoying a season as much as this or ages. Come on DM keep it up and one on the board back it up and speculate to accumulate.

It would be a fine gesture to take the 20% pay cut he advocated and would give him some moral authority. He must have more money than he could ever need. I would imagine he is driven by ambition and in my view staying and succeeding with Everton would show real ambition.

When Phil Neville picks up the FA cup it will outdo anything else in his career.

£4m a season for 12 championships, 2 European cups, 5 fa cups, 4 league cups, and a cup winners cup, plus making his owners £100s of millions. His negotiation skills are worst than BKs.

What I'd like to see is a results-based pay system with a retainer, rather than this "80k a week" nonsense.

I think if Moyes really loved the club, he'd take a pay cut on his next contract as a gesture towards our current financial situation. He's had five years on 3.5m (I'm going with the halfway between some of the figures that've been thrown around) which is enough to set him up for life, so could happily live off a few hundred thousand less pa for the next five years.

What I am interested to know - and this is by no means me being my usual negative self, I just am curious - is why so many people believe that the manager should earn more than all his players? I have some ideas, but am interested to know if there is a collective understanding of why this is the case.

Moyes is a great manager and runs a good squad, with no controversy involving player disputes or anything like that, unlike some other clubs.

That's one of the reasons we see him as a great manager, one of the reasons why he's paid as much as he is, and one of the reasons why he's paid more than the players.....

There is not much point in DM taking a 20% pay cut if he is the only one, and there is bugger all chance of all the players accepting such a proposition.

Keith (#365) - "with limited resourses as well as having to sell players season after season". Barry thinks the manager is complicit in this situation - not rocking the boat by complaining, bigging up Bill, and pocketing his generous renumeration in return - so it is pointless to suggest he should be impressed by it. If you don't understand that then you don't understand what his concerns are.

I am a bit betwixt and between, thinking DM has generally done well but also thinking he seemingly side-steps some opportunities to publicly put some pressure on the board, and occasionally wondering if someone could possibly have done even better with the same restraints (I don't have any names but even his most ardent supporter has to admit there have been times when DM has made some unfathomable decisions).

The headline acts routinely get paid more than directors, producers, etc. I suspect there are many BBC 'stars' who get paid more than the Director General.

He could well leave Everton and go elsewhere on a good salary with a higher transfer budget, and possibly be more successful, having not have to sell players to keep Kenwright's theatre productions going.

I think he's earned enough money to not have to worry, so I don't think he stays for that. Nor do I believe there are many managers out there who could do as good a job as he has under his constraints.

As far as his decisions are concerned, which you have pointed out. Tell me a manager who always gets it right? And as far as managers not being as highly paid as players becoming the norm, does that make it right? I think not.

That said there have only been two seasons when I can say I have been consistently impressed with the team he has put out, so I will hang-fire on the 'great' accolade for now.

He does operate under poor conditions but he has never really put obvious pressure on the board to do something about it. Apparently he has said things in private, but that throws a different light on his "Well things are as they are and we will muddle along the best we can" type of response to questions about whether we can be competitive for the rest of the season. It may just be him being loyal but does it necessarily help the team / club in the long-run or does it just bolster the current regime who pay him the wages that are being discussed? I don't know the answer (as Barry thinks he does) but I care enough about the gradual decline of EFC financially to ponder the question occasionally.

You talk about right and wrong in a wage structure as if it is a moral decision. It isn't, it is a financial decision and in the entertainment industry those who pull in the crowds / sponsors are those who are fabulously rewarded. In the retail industry some sales people can earn many times what their managers earn through commission. The flip-side is some managers earn many times what their underlings do but do nothing other than delegate, posture, and consistently make poor decisions when left to their own devices. Common sense has nothing to do with it.

As I pointed out, a manager could have a much longer career than the average football player (potentially 30 years versus around 15) so they don't have he same imperative to earn as much as possible as quickly as possible.

What we have as some one stated is DMFC / BKFC all under the EFC / Fruit heading ( no puns intended )

This thread is about DMFC, not BKFC. I have been vocal in the MOB as have many on here but this is to do with the type of football played on the field.

I do happen to agree that the Manager should be paid more than the players because I've no doubt that Moyes is thinking and doing Club related stuff 24 / 7. Where as lets call him player xxxx just turns up does his training and plays on match day sometimes not very well goes home and spends the evening on twitter.

Moyes is a good manager, he came in 10 yrs ago and his assesement / Improvement graph has been in the upward direction slowly but surely. But it has been in a staight line.

Great managers how ever their graphs are curved and the difference in the early years between a slo straight line and a slow curve is negligable.

When the curve starts to head up thats where the trophies come in and turns good into Great.

We don't know what Moyes actual capacity for greatness is, because he has not had the tools to do the job, he maybe a BMW but until the restrictor is removed is he a nice 325, better than the Vauxhalls of Wigan, Stoke etc. We will never know if he is a top of the range V12 850 CSi

Its a shame we have people like Dave Lynch who have nothing constructive to say

Can you think of a single manager who could have done it given out situation? "My guess - NONE", to coin a phrase.

I sincerely hope to see Davey manage a club with the finances to match his 'wonderful' abilities then instead of sycophantic speculation we would see just how 'good' he really is — the sooner the better for me.

If Ferguson is on £4m a year, well he'd struggle to find himself in the top 5 amongst his earning players. I thought Rooney's last contract was around the regions of £9-10m pa. And I refuse to believe that Mancini is paid more than the likes of Tevez, Toure and Kompany.

Back on the Australia example, our clubs here have started staggering players annual salaries to accommodate the salary cap. I know football doesn't have a cap in Europe, but it also can be used to reward loyalty. If a player is contracted to earn $2m over four years, he isn't paid $500k a season. His first season might be worth $250-300k, with his penultimate or final year being the bigger pay year. Vice versa, in order to get a coup signing, that can offer a player 60% of their pay in the first year or two to entice them to sign.

A staggering system would definitely encourage more motivation for success in football if it were done with the interest of the club and the individual meeting somewhere in the middle. What I mean is, if Moyes signed for £3.5m pa in 2008, and knows that he'll get that each year no matter what until 2013, we're just lucky he's remained somewhat ambitious (although this time 2 years ago I think he suffered a little and seemed to temporarily go on active strike).

And a manager doesn't need to win trophies to be considered a success. You surely cannot not have such a simplistic view of football? If Harry keeps QPR up, it will have been success, because QPR look set to be relegated... in the same way as Reading and Southampton staying up is considered a success. If a manager comes into a club who have been finishing in the bottom 5/6 in general for several seasons and then turns them into a top 6 team (in general) with a £500k-a-year net spend, that is not only a success, but a spectacular success.

You are aware right Peter, that Moyes didn't take over the side of the 80s – aren't you? – but a side with the kind of record not far off that which we would now associate with a club like Wigan?

Whatever the reason, there seems to be a lot of envy about working class blokes doing well. The media is poisoned with it. My own view is that comment should be only in connection with what is relative, ie, if Moyes earns the same as Ferguson then it is reasonable to comment that he is overpaid.

Is £100k per week (why are only footballers wages given in weekly terms? Is it for us Pleb supporters to get it and hate them for it?) any more ludicrous than being paid millions to pretend to have been bitten by a radioactive spider?

Jim what a load of old tosh, averaging around 8th without any cups and a whole list of debacles in important games for a decade is what it is – 8th – the dreaded "best of the rest" feeding a never ending search for excuses.

This new one about managers of clubs the size of EFC not needing to win trophies is growing quite nicely now I've seen a few posts warming to this. Your rationale that Moyes has been a "spectacular success" might have washed for the first few years but we're into the 11th year now – how much more of this success can we take?

I'd like to hear your after dinner speech you must be a hoot. The phrase you're looking for is "relative success" but once you start mentioning QPR and Southampton comparisons I know you're into your routine.

Probably none. Because the 'successful' clubs can afford to pay half their squads massive salaries, which are in excess of the salaries of the highest paid Premier League managers.

I would be interested in a poll of ToffeeWebbers: 4th vs FA Cup? The kids want Champions League; the old farts want the Cup.

Come on, MK, can't be that hard....

I made no such assessment of who were England's successful clubs, you made that one, be interesting to know who you meant by your original statement?

@Ian Bennett

Personally, after spending an evening reminiscing about 1995 the other day, as well as still remembering where I was for the semi and the final that day (unfortunately not at the game itself), I would take the FA Cup. I understand the reasoning of the Champions League but there is something just more special about winning the Cup.

Please look at some of the preceding posts to get an idea of where the whole 'who should earn more / is DM relatively highly rewarded compared to his contempories' debate comes from. There are people who genuinely think (apparently) it is ludicrous that managers don't automatically earn more than the players.

http://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/51927-Brilliant-home-video-footage-of-Everton-s-1984-FA-Cup-victory-parade

I understand that some players are integral to football clubs revenues, as I stated above, but not all of them are. The big money maker around the world being jersey replicas, does anyone think Anichebe sells £25k worth of kit/merchandise a week? On a local scale, how many people go to games to see specific players? That SHOULD be why they're paid what they're paid.

To the person who suggested Moyes donate 20% of his wage to a charity, with annual losses of nearly £10M, what bigger local charity could there be than EFC?

The wealthiest clubs being able to afford to pay the top players the going rate (for the top players) and that in turn being more than the going rate for the top managers is not flawed logic - it's simply how things operate.