Evertonian Holtby to Join Spurs

Joining in July. How did we miss out on this one?

When was the last time we got a player when any other club were after him ??

No competition for Fellaini, Heitinga, Gueye, Jelavic, Mirallas, Drenthe, Hitzlsperger, Mucha, Hahnemann, McFadden, Oviedo, Gibson etc etc etc. We regularly wait until the last minute and pick from the scraps.

We are charity shop shoppers or maybe Poundland sometimes. We sell our main assets and try to shore up from hand me downs. That is why DM is long overdue for some backing to bring in reinforcements to sustain our top 4 challenge.

Perhaps Moyes just doesn't rate him?

Will be interested to see how he does next season.

Assuming Moyes was even interested in him — and there is no evidence I've seen to suggest he was — that would put a 22 year-old, hitherto untried in the Premier League, right at our wage ceiling. Pretty much a non-starter, I would think.

Spurs like to collect midfielders and use them as bench warmers so let's see how the lad gets on down there — who knows, he may end up at somewhere like Everton on loan a year from now!

We already have one of the best players in the Premiership playing in that role. We have an England international who can play a similar role and, more pertinently, a 19 yr old who looks like a natural "No. 10" who Moyes has been seeing for years.

Mirallas can also play there and potentially Pienaar. It's not the most urgent position that needs filling. Signings, whether free or otherwise, will be of strikers, defensive midfielders and centre backs (although the former might not be such a problem if Mirallas and Anichebe could avoid injuries) The second is definitely an issue because Gibson seems to be made of glass and Neville will retire one day.

A professional in any field will tilt towards who will pay the most for his service. Holtby to Everton was always a non-starter.

Anyway, another once a blue always a blue shows that their true colour is green.

Lyndon (#392) - could we have got him for less? No one knows if we didn't even ask.

Andrew (#397) - are you sure that all of those players will be available for the team next season and can you guarantee that they can do the job better than Holtby (the manager should always be looking to improve the quality of the squad if he can)? Osman is likely to get slower, Fellaini could do a job further back (where we lack resources), and Mirallas is our best best for a right wing threat. Which 19 year old do we have that is guaranteed to be in the manager's starting eleven next season? I can't think of one. Holtby could improve us as a team for potentially the next 5 years.

Steven (#407) - don't get your last comment? If we showed no interest how is he mercenary for taking a good offer from a team that has properly broken into the top four last season and this, has a very good squad, etc,etc?

He's an Everton fan but might just prefer the idea of living in London. The table also doesn't tell you that we are better than Spurs. Plus, there is no evidence to suggest we even asked him.

We all dream as fans of one day being in the great position where we, as players, would have the opportunity to turn down Man Utd in favour of Everton. But sentiment doesn't come into it. The only three examples I can think of where a player turned down other clubs because they had blue sentiments are Gary Speed (RIP), Alan Stubbs and Leighton Baines. Admittedly Baines is meant to have been a red so his sentiment was more to the city. Stubbsy was a player we should have bought years before but instead we shelled out for Craig Short (?!) from Derby!

I understand completely your point but it's easy for us to judge them. They have short careers and are surrounded by parasites. My immediate reaction, if I was a player, would be to sack my agent and represent myself thus meaning I was on a nice but not stupendous wage from EFC and use the money wisely.

And that's why Duncan Ferguson, with that tattoo, always makes me smile! His love for Everton is the same as ours.

Someone mentioned on another thread about this very same subject that McManaman turned down the chance to play for us when he returned from Real Madrid as he didn't want to run the risk of not living up to the expectations (I'm paraphrasing).

No, I think the fact he was shite at City suggests if he turned in the same dismal performances in Everton's colours, the fact he spent his formative years over the park would suddenly rear it's head. Football fans are nothing if not predictable.

You mention Osman's pace. He's never had any so him getting slower won't exactly limit his game. His pace is in his feet and in his brain, not in his legs.

While we cling onto Fellaini, there's absolutely no point using him further back unless injuries force it. He's scored 8 goals from where we play him now and is highly likely to pass into double figures. He has destroyed some teams because he's "unplayable". Why on earth would we move him for a kid from a league many believe to be inferior to the Premiership?

That 19 yr old is Ross Barkley. Yes, on one hand, I'm not sure he will be starting regularly next season but, on the other, a good pre season and you never know.

And along with all of that, what would gurantee Holtby being in our first 11? If the midfield is fit and ready, he would most likely be benched.

Yes, the manager should be strengthening the squad when he can but at the right price. An awful lot of people seem to have presumed a lot about a kid playing in Germany for 18 months just because his Dad supports Everton.

You've summed what I've been trying to say more or less. We don't have any money so we won't be getting into further debt by being overly frivolous. (Something which Spurs will always be)

Whats up with these guys? Messi and Defoe are small but they shoot rockets.

You are presupposing that the team wouldn't work better if Fellaini was bossing the centre of the field and Holtby was setting up Jelavic and chipping in with some of his own. Fellaini would still get his share from set-pieces and joining the attack later. There is also the big question mark hanging over whether Fellaini will still be with us next season. Assuming he is, we still have doubts over the long-term availability Darron Gibson and have yet to recruit anyone to share the burden in that regard (please don't mention Phil Neville, I am lookong at ways our midfield could be improved, not stay as they are now).

Another big question mark belongs next to Ross Barkley. Will his game develop sufficiently / is he one of Moyes types of players or is he destined to spend years on the bench? Holtby is 22, performing consistently in the Bundesliga and a German international. There is a lot more reason to think Holtby could have been the one pulling the strings just behind the striker than to assume that Ross will ready for next season.

So to sum up, you have blithely dismissed as not needed a young player who may have added quality to our midfield just to stick with what we have now, whereas I am wondering whether we could have had an even more effective team, with more options, or at the least covered ourselves against players transferring out, running out of steam, suffering chronic injury problems, or taking a bit longer to fulfil their potential.

One is called forward planning, the other is crossing your fingers that nothing goes wrong.

Spurs can pay a lot more than us! Did you not notice the Pienaar transfer saga?

If Holtby goes to Spurs and is their midfield dynamo next season, I will bow to your superior knowledge.

And it would be overly frivolous if his wage demands were high (I BET THEY WERE)

This debate is pointless because we didn't show for him and I trust David Moyes more than the likes of us.

Which ever way you look at it this is a fuck up, we could live to regret this just like we had to live with the regret of Gordon Lee passing up Ian Rush because he was't big enough to play in the first division, or Fowler, Mcmanaman, Owen, Carragher.

Fuck up, fuck up, fuck up!!!!

Some of the defense of Moyes and Kenwright on here beggars belief sometimes.

He's got a limited budget and he knows his squad better than we do. So he knows which positions need strengthening and the price to pay.

AGAIN - people are making a lot of presumptions about Holtby. On Radio5Live tonight they were saying it would be a big step up for him.

We'll see. Can we talk about this again in January 2014?

There's not a manager in history who didn't sign a pup or who missed an opportunity to sign a jewel but Moyes's track record is as good as anyone's.

I'd take the direct opposite tack to yours - some of the CRITICISM of Moyes on here beggars belief.

When did I mention Neville? He's a utility player who happens to be our captain.

BTW - you forgot to mention the other FUCK UPS the club made when they brought in Jeffers, Ball and Rooney. Three players who probably stopped us going into adminstration when we sold 'em and, in the case of the latter, Rush aside, he's won more than all three of your examples.

How angry would you be if Rooney had ended up at the RS?

Okay it would be unusual for a player to forego an outrageous sum of money for something as tenuous as an emotional attachment to a particular club, but that doesn't mean it is impossible either.

As I said earlier, don't mind being out-bid but do mind if we didn't even try (unless the manager thinks he wouldn't improve the team). I do understand that we have to be careful with our resources and have immediate priorities, but I really hope we haven't been short-sighted in this regard..

I like Ossie but he has his deficiencies and will not last forever, have a hankering for Mirallas to stay out wide, have some concerns that Felli's advanced role doesn't suit all our players as well as another set-up might (and think we may need a plan B anyway for a variety of reasons), and although I am hopeful for Ross, I wouldn't put my mortgage on him running games next season.

How is it a fuck up? Moyes didn't want him and couldn't afford him if he did.

The areas you talk about make sense but I suspect Moyes, as you say, thinks he wouldn't improve the team or has something else planned.

Personally I think we might have another midfielder coming in for a lot cheaper...

I don't disagree Holtby might have improved the squad but we are not City or Chelski. That said, City seem to have stopped spending in the top end of the market.

A decent midfielder (long-term prospect) will cost us at least £40 grand a week. Even if we are not buying now an eventual permanent deal will cost something even if his contract has run down in the mean-time (the fee will be agreed before the loan starts.

If it is Vadis Odjidja Ofoe you are thinking of, I am concerened that nothing has apparently happened yet. If it is a done deal then why not announce it, if they are waiting for some reason (such as raising funds from elsewhere) then it could always be gazumped in the mean-time. Basically, I don't believe we have any guaranteed deals done yet, and consequentially we could end up with nothing.

We have no money. I was trying to end on a hopeful note given that DM tends to surprise us during transfer windows. I suspect Vadis might be that player. If not, I will be disappointed. Although I hear he has a few fitness issues?

But on day 4 of the 31 days in the window, I think it's a little knee jerk for us to get depressed. We, like many, tend to do our business in the last few days. I will be angry, like you and Robbie above seem to be, if we've done nothing come January 31st!

DID WE EVEN GO FOR LEWIS HOLTBY?

If we did, show me the evidence.

If you can't, stop playing Football Manager and grow up!

People from Widnes are...oh hang on...wasn't that someone else a few weeks back?

Good point mate and I'm tired!

Currently there are stories abounding that the manager has gone cap in hand to the board and his signing of a new contract is apparently dependent on whether they are matching his ambition.

I wish I could be all optimistic and looking forward to this transfer window like a kid looking forward to Christmas. Unfortunately I have seen too much disappointment at EFC to not scrutinize what we don't do (when it looks like a decent opportunity) as much as what we do.

Who are you expecting? Don't keep me in suspense.

Wouldn't worry about his fitness if his attitude is okay (yeah, the two could be linked). Sounds a bit like excuses being made before we don't sign him.

Unless he is prepared to live up with to our managers expectations when it comes to fitness, Moyes won't want him and he won't fancy coming. If he is up for the challenge (and is currently struggling because he is frustrated his career hasn't gone where he hoped it would in the summer) then he will soon be fitter than he has been in his life before.

Still don't think we will get him for a song though.

If we keep Fellaini and Baines, I will be happy.

And I've seen loads of disappointment being an Everton fan but I occasionally hope for more under Moyes.

Chin up hey?

It sort of leads naturally into 'if not, why not?'

Which then leads to discussions about whether we could have got him for less than Spurs are paying and, most importantly, if he could have been a useful addition to our team.

Is that what you call playing Football Manager?

To me it is exactly the sort of thing a fans forum is for.

I said VOO??

WHO TO?

I AM THE EGGMAN, COO COCHECHOO

Expert texpert...

We're Blues not Reds X

What amazes me is that, after all these years, people still get shocked when things like this happen. It's time to face reality and that reality is that, under the present owners, there will be no big purchases ever coming here. For us, it's loans, crocks and journeymen.

I also believe that – if not in January then at season's end – either baines or Fellaini (or even both) will go. Don't get too excited, though... cos most of the money raised won't be going to the manager: it'll be going to the bank instead.

May I suggest if you repeat the following mantra: There is No Money at Everton at least a million times a day, then it all falls into place and the pain lessens...

Cheers for 2013.

Life goes on, and I trust Moyes to make the right call.

I don’t know what, but I was under the impression that we made an approach – I mean if he’s free, it seems “our sort of price” – but yet, it was perhaps a bit premature to consider him too much a mercenary.

It is a pity, as it would be nice to have another Blue supporter wearing the shirt, and Spurs are probably our biggest rival at the moment.

Okay, London location counts for a lot, but I don’t know who they are so much richer than us, when I consider that they have not played consistent CL football, and they don’t have a large Asian fan base like United, and Liverpool.

I was talking to a few Brazilian ex-players footballers over Christmas, now turned coaches, and one of the thing they said to me was that when you play professionally and move about, you just begin to enjoy a game for a game, and old allegiances fall to the side.

We simply don't have the cash right now to pay another player £75k a week (unless we'd have gotten rid of Fellaini or someone else on high wages) as well as a probably signing on fee of £3-4m.

As someone said above, a creative midfielder is not really our top priority - we need to use whatever cash we have for a DM first. Gibson is a sicknote and Neville cannot keep playing in the middle. We've more or less temporarily sorted the right wing issue with Mirallas (although injured). Neville is simply too old (and not good enough) to be in the middle of the park on a regular basis – he's going to be 36 is a couple of weeks!

They are not as bad in the transfer market as people make out. they sold Modric for £35m and he cost them £16m and only paid £5m for Adebayor, only £8m for Van der Vaart at the time. 'Appy 'Arry made some stupid buys but also got them into the CL.

To sum up, they are a very well run business – unlike a certain one in blue I can mention...

I don't really get this thread? So what if we didn't sign a player who just happened to be a blue as a kid. That he was a blue is irrelevant. In simple terms, it's whether Moyes likes, needs or can afford him, just like any other player. We didn't sign Demba Ba either, but I don't see 'outraged of Walton' going on about that.

If he joins Spurs and becomes a top player then we'll be scratching our heads thinking how did we miss out (if only for the re-sale value) when he was hinting at a move to Everton.

I must admit though that I have never seen him play football so I don't know how good he is and, as someone has said before, we have Barkley who needs more game time. Time will tell but my initial feelings are that we have missed an opportunity.

Whether we have made an offer or not for Holtby, I just do not think we can match Spurs' recent pedigree, their wages/signing on fee, or the potential of progress. For several years we've been stagnant, and we are only within touching distance of Spurs now, because Moyes has spent the little money he has had much more effectively.

But maybe Holtby won't be cut out for this league (I doubt it though...) and maybe we will get this Belgian guy who will turn out better. I'll judge at the end of the window.

Blind faith eh. Keeps the depression at bay.

The annoying thing about Holtby, is that even if he does not become a superstar (which I think he may) they will be able to sell him a season later for £5-£8m because he is young and has a good reputation.

Sadly its irrelevant as we can't afford to mess with our already cracking wage structure by offering a 22-year-old, untested in the Premier League, £75k a week.

It just highlights the widening gap between us and Spurs.

However, my original point remains, that people above are calling Holtby because he has joined Spurs instead of us, when there is no evidence we even went for him.

Handouts from billionaire backers is one thing, but it does not quality the club as a successful business. I would have guessed their slice of TV revenue was similar to ours.

If Holtby is that good, at that age, it seems Schalke were pretty stupid to let him tick into his final year of contract and lose him for free. The Bosman ruling has a lot to answer for in terms of what it's done to mobility in football.

That said, the reality was Fellaini didn't get sold (yet) and Spurs beat us to the punch. It's all a matter of timing – and ours was off, again.

Did Bill put you up to this? ;-)

Good luck to Holtby. Hard to be disappointed as I don't think we were even in for in. Spurs should be finishing in the top 4 with the players and cash they have.

Of course, if Holtby and his agent publicized his basic demands to anyone who showed any interest and that scared us off then that would be fair enough, but that isn't what is being reported here.

I thought the only real advantage of him being a Blue was that it would mean he might join us for less than he would squeeze out of the likes of Spurs, in order to 'live the dream' for a couple of years (he is young enough to probably have a couple more big money moves if he wants them and is good enough).

Other than that, the idea that you automatically get more effort out of 'one of your own' has long proved to be an irrelevance (Phil Neville being a prime example that your personal background does not indicate your committment).

I can't believe people aren't disappointed that we may not even have approached the lad. The bar is now officially set at its lowest.

My point was, Moyes probably would have signed a player of Holtby's ilk had he lost a player from the same position, on similar wages.

And a free is never a free. They always cost money. Money we haven't got until we sell.

I stand by what I say... it was a matter of timing and ours was off.