Barkley off for a month with Leeds

Like Warnock, I remember the QPR game too and Barkley was the only player that stood out in a totally inept Everton performance.

How on earth can the likes of Gueye consistently get games ahead of him?

We have an absolute bare bones of a midfield and alongside Pienaar and Osman, Ross would learn his trade far better than running round with the likes of Diouff and the rest of those vile Leeds cloggers?

Moyes obviously sees something in Ross, so wants him to get playing time...he's obviously not arsed about Marvin.

Best that he actually plays than sitting on a bench watching everyone else ply their trade.

I think he would have been far better served if Moyes had shown a lot more confidence in him and played him a lot more in the Prem. His development would be more advanced and we'd be benefiting now from his undoubted creativity and skill.

He has to mature mentally to play in central midfield, the games he has come on this season he has been poor. Yes he has potential but that's all and there are hundreds of lads that show potential at his age that goes unfulfilled.

I am sure David Moyes knows better than anyone what is best for the lad, certainly Leon Osman improved as a player from his loan spell and he was a lot older than Barkley when he went on loan. Also Ferguson did the same to Beckham so it is no sleight on Barkley to be loaned out.

Steve K, good point about him making the mistakes somewhere else. I do think Warnock is the right manager for him in this regard and I think that he will get well looked after under Warnock.

He made a poor pass against Blackburn in the second game of LAST season.

Is that going to be brought up every time his name is mentioned?

Every other player has made many more in the time between then and now.

That is as ridiculous an observation as all those who proclaimed that Coleman couldn't play full-back... despite the fact he'd only played there for Everton once (and had a blinder against Spurs!).

It's a wonder Barkley has any confidence left if he reads unfounded remarks like that.

He's looked great to me every time: instinctive, confident, an eye for a pass, will take a man on and knows where the goal is.

This myth about him being mistake-ridden is ridiculous.

And Tony Williams (979), Gueye has made a total of 14 appearances plus 23 as sub, compared to Barkley's 4 and 8. How the hell has he done that? He even got on the pitch for the FA Cup tie at Cheltenham and Barkley didn't even make the bench.

It's ludicrous. We have a lad with what appears to be real talent and potential and he can't get near the team. Well, not ours anyway.

The championship is a good level and if he is starting week in week out for Leeds in their promotion push then he will learn far more there than he will getting 5 minutes here and there for us. He is not yet good enough to merit a starting place at Everton but hopefully he soon will be.

Good luck at Leeds Ross, get your head down, do well and prove that you deserve your place in the Everton team.

In his appearance against Chelsea he gave the ball away numerous times, took a very ill conceived shot from distance in the final minutes that just killed off time for Chelsea when we had everyone forward. And one of his bad giveaways against Chelsea directly led to a 3 on 1 against us that if it wasn't for Torres would have put the game away for Chelsea, but Howard came up with a great save.

I can think of a few current mistakes in the Chelsea game...that wasn't last season.

In my opinion as an avid and illogical fan, he simply isn't ready to be playing central midfield in an Europe chasing Premier League football team at the moment. Hopefully he can break his way into the team.

Experience is the key, get games under his belt. Who is is supposed to replace in our team at the moment?

Michael, I wish there was a Premier League team who would take him on loan, I would think if one asked, he would jump at the chance and Everton would have probably obliged.

Glass half empty for you. Half full for me, thankfully.

And Sam (998), I am not 'demanding' he be 'thrust' into our team; just that he be given a chance every now and again, ahead of others like the wholly inept Gueye, who has had more than enough opportunities to impress, never done so, yet still gets on the pitch.

And no, just this season is NOT relevant. If it was, then by that criteria, Barkey's 'mistake' against Blackburn, LAST season, would be totally irrelevant!

Gueye far outweighs him in terms of appearances, substitute appearances and time on the bench.

How do you justify that... and all that...?

Never said everyone else was a perfect 10. He's young and is very liable to make costly mistakes, so we're loaning him out to get valuable playing time in a league where those mistakes won't punish us. He'll learn, he'll improve, he'll come back a better player for us. It's really that simple.

I don't disagree that Barkley deserves a chance as much as Gueye though unless you work at Everton I imagine like me you have no idea what they show in training every week.

I do disagree about the loan being bad. Simply put he's not good enough to start for us and would therefore be better served starting for a club in the championship at this young age.

It's not just about the mistakes though is it? He doesn't look good enough yet. It's that simple.

I ask again, whose place do you believe he should take from the current side?

He was a bit of a maverick, someone with bags of potential and skill but Warnock disciplined his game and rounded him off into a good player. Although Barkley isn't exactly a maverick, he's got bags of potential and skill and I'm sure Warnock will bring him on nicely for us!

And are Leeds playing at Barnsley this weekend and is Barkley able to play? If so I might make a trip down to watch him with me being in the next village!

Instead of being last in line on the bench, or, as at Cheltenham, not even on it.

IMO Moyes is right to loan him out but wrong not to give him some game time against the likes of Cheltenham and in some of the easier games when we are well on top.

At some stage he will need to get used to his team mates and Everton's play.

As for the Leeds boss, a great man manager. Good place to be.

Many of those youngsters they're playing now didn't come up through their ranks, but were acquired, and also with a change of manager who's moved a lot of players on, brought in some that haven't worked, he's had little option.

Also, Sterling has been pretty impressive from the off. Something that Barkley hasn't shown. Duffy is unfortunate because there's usually been 2 out of our 3 established CBs in decent form, and I think one time when Duffy may have got a look in, he wasn't fit. (Could be wrong on that).

I wholeheartedly back Moyes on this one.

Sterling also cost a fair few bob - how much?

.. the mystery of the 20 odd million "other operating costs" revealed.

First his dad and bro on the payroll now illegitimate progeny from christ knows where skimming the lawn mower cash.

No wonder he's holding out for more loot, bet he's supporting half of scotland the depraved stud muffin.

However, I take the point he has much to learn and is highly unlikely to be getting significant game time for us any time soon, so I am at least relieved that he isn't just being sent back to Sheffield Wednesday for another dose of whatever it was that failed to change the manager's point of view on his return. Breaking into the Leeds starting line-up will be difficult for him to do and so if he manages it he will have shown Warnock he has something about him.

I would imagine the loan is only for a month initially because he may end up not getting regular games at Leeds and so a rethink may be required. In line with that, Warnock could be given the option of extending the loan if things are going well.

Not getting on in the cup was odd, but playing 90 minutes is far better than nothing or next to nothing. Getting experience, is key to still being on the books in a couple of years time and being established. Barca and Madrid loan out their kids all the time.

Rooney is simply exceptional in any case, and young Rahman makes plenty of mistakes (though they tend to be in areas where they are not easily latched onto for a counter attack) but terrifies defenders with his ability to run with the ball at pace.

What saddens me is that people can watch our team and apparently not notice how often the rest of our midfield players misplace passes or are dispossessed too easily. Ross Barkley may not be ready yet, but that doesn't change the fact that people are being too critical and selective, magnifying his errors unreasonably whilst ignoring those made by others.

Osman could have been kept on the books when Moyes first took over when the squad was painfully thin. If he hadn't if gone on loan to Carlisle or derby would he have made it with us? Playing is key in my mind.

They have top quality sides with top quality players on the bench, and probably another dozen top quality players backing them up. Saying we should copy what they do (or the likes of Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal) ignores the fact that they have a much greater pool of talent to choose from and can easily afford to develop their young players at their own pace. The next 'Messi' can be playing wherever whist the real one is strutting his stuff, whilst we are a small run of injuries from being chucking the youngsters into the fray and hoping they come good quickly.

Warnock might or might not be a thug but he and Leeds will be different then Jones and Wed, all grist to the educational mill and if he comes back with a ' bit more Kirkdale and a little less Birkdale ' will that be the end of the world.

That is anecdotal evidence and therefore completely worthless.

But the other side of the coin is, I've seen nothing yet from Moyes that says he's preparing to throw in the towel on Ross. Just my postulating, but I felt that he did give up on Rodwell a good 18 months or so ago, the time when he maybe was fit (in Rodwell terms), but couldn't make the subs bench?

And I don't expect anything from him playing in the Premier league because I don't think he's ready yet, that's why I'm glad he's going out on loan.

I never understand why clubs pay millions to buy talent, pay them millions in wages, and then play them in front of one man and a gig in meaningless matches.

Si 79 - miserable sod.

Not sure I agree although I did want him to succeed and be that high power energetic box to box player, our gerrard if you will. 8 hamstring injuries, yes 8, perhaps explains why he never did that, and perhaps never will. The united goal being the false promise.

They don't; it is actually their opinions that are formed by such examples and people should stick to saying just that. Asking a question that is not rhetorical as if it were makes it seem as though people believe they are dealing with something that is proof when it lies firmly in the realm of conjecture.

I was on an earlier thread on whether RB should be loaned out and I tried to get people to tell me what, if they believed the lad had learnt very little/ nothing from his time at Sheffield Wednesday (which apparently they did), they expected to gain from merely repeating the exercise at the same club. I had hoped that some would talk about progression and maybe getting him a loan at a higher level, but all I really got was a list of players who were made/ unharmed by their loan spells (as usual) presented as if they actually prove anything in relation to the individuals never mind footballers in general and Ross Barkley in particular.

Matt (#083) - Ross Barkley may be confusing a lot of people because he does not easily fit into what people see as a typical midfield player. Of what we have he is most like a cross between Ossie and Darron Gibson. Neither of them were the finished article at 19 because their strengths are not about the power and /or pace that are the basis for a lot of other players (Jack Rodwell being a good example). I don't think DM has written him off, but that doesn't mean he knows exactly what to do with him (for the best) at this moment. Loaning him out may mean his mistakes don't harm us, but it isn't guaranteed to help him make the transition to playing at Premier League level.

As I've said before, I think playing out of position - like Wide Mid, either side - is fairly standard for young talented players, and helps with their general development. I can't think of many players who play exactly the same position all their lives. Gerrard certainly hasn't. Didn't Alan Ball start off at Blackpool as a winger, or at least Wide Midfielder? Different types of players, obviously, but the principle is the same.

He may not be a blood and guts style tackler but then neither is Fellaini or Scholes (or Beckham or Zidane, etc, etc). He is only19 and had a bad injury so will probably get stronger and more of a handful naturally, but even if he doesn't it is not as though he will need to be to still be an effective creative midfielder.

You're not expecting him to be a 'dogs of war' player are you, because I don't think he was ever touted as that?

Don't pose non-rhetorical questions as though they are rhetorical if you don't want to get called for it.

I would imagine you lose a bit of confidence after an injury like that, and the only way to get that confidence back is to play competitive games.

He isn't getting games for us because he isn't ready yet so it can only be a good thing he's gone out on loan.

Dogs of war? I only said he doesn't like a tackle.

I am just saying leave the kid alone and don't make out he is worse than he is.

"He isn't getting games for us because he isn't ready yet so it can only be a good thing he's gone out on loan." A couple of points on this:

1) It could be argued that playing him with our first team will get him ready quicker than sending him to the Championship. It is the reasonable concern that mistakes he may make could be costly in games we can ill afford to lose if we hope to stay in contention for Europe that are keeping him out rather than huge question marks over what he can bring to the team. If so many of our games weren't so tight, if the stakes weren't so high we would be able to play him to bring him on. He may be good enough to play for us now, but the circumstances aren't right to gamble on it.

2) Saying it can only be a good thing is simply your opinion. It may be good, bad or indifferent. For example, the 12 games he played for Sheffield Wed were not good for him (apparently) because he has people like you queuing up to point out his faults.

Do you mean someone who has a different opinion on how to treat Barkley?

And why do you keep making out I've said something I haven't.

I didn't make out he is worse than he is and I didn't say his loan at Sheff Wed wasn't good for him.

It is ok that I I don't think he's ready. It is only my opinion as I posted it or do I have to put " in my opinion" before everything I say?

Barkley runs like a headless chicken in centre mid, he needs experience in that position, otherwise we're gonna concede loads of goals. He aint disciplined enough yet. The only position he could do a difference the way he is now, but we have one of the best players in the league there at the moment, and even then, Osman, Pienaar and Naismith would play ahead of him.

People need to be patient with him

People are picking out weaknesses in his game as if no-one else in our team has them, and then linking them to him going back out on loan. I find this dissection and fault-finding unpleasant and pointless, as well as unwarranted on occasion.

The lad came close to playing for us last season so he must have been close to being good enough then. He went out on loan and yet according to some he is still not good enough, so what exactly did his loan period do for him?

I think it showed the lad is capable but raw, but it gave him little to help him slot in back at EFC, because of the role he played and the relative levels of his skills meant he could cruise. Ultimately, being a big fish in a small pond doesn't prepare you for being a small fish in a big pond, which is what he has to be before he can think of becoming a big fish in the big pond.

I have already said a loan at a high enough level will at least challenge the lad. Somehow I have been able to do that by focusing on the positives and not by making statements about his perceived faults.

So, to me it makes logical sense to loan him out – keep him fit, continue his development. And, folks, we're only talking a month at this stage, Leeds don't have him till the end of time, so perhaps a little perspective required...

He is as good or bad as I think he is, no more, no less. It's only my opinion.

"Doesn't like a tackle" means exactly what it says and I've explained why I think it is that way earlier.

I don't understand why you've got so upset because I pointed out "one of his faults" and why I think it's good for him to go out on loan.

Do you think that we should disrupt the midfield that has given us the best start we've had in years, just to develop one player. Or should we let them carry on and send him elsewhere?

I have no idea that the herd hasn't loaned anyone promising out to league 1 or championship, an I suspect you don't either.

Now the issue with Barkley, is that he is truly, a central midfield player. He will not displace Fellaini in our team, and therefore that leaves two central, and deeper positions which he is not suited for currently. Given our attacking formation, we need experience and/or defensive ability in front of the back four, neither of which Barkley offers. His minor cameos have shown an understandable desire to please...which is exactly what we saw in Wilshere tbh. And I think that desire to please, highlights his naivety.

And Si, I think that just because a few people have criticised the couple of performances he has had since the return from his loan spell, doesn't mean 1) it wasn't beneficial 2) or a further loan won't be. Really, I think Barkley should go back out for the season (that he hasn't suggests to me that we are not buying another central mid, or Moyes hasn't been given a guarantee about first team starts), and I think his cameos, especially against Chelski, just illustrated his will to impress. He will learn in time to get the most out of his natural ability...and he will learn it alot quicker whilst playing regular first team football.

One more thing about Barkley....he is only 19, and has lost one year of his development through injury. He is not Rooney, and we musn't pile the pressure on, because as much as we would like him to be the next England superstar, he is miles away at present. Central midfield is also a far less forgiving position. In time he will learn what he needs to, and it needs to be away from EFC, because we can't offer him the matches. But it is ok, because that is what loans are for. I also think

Moyes has many attributes but dealing with promising young players is not one of them. I have still not forgiven him for not playing Rodwell in the 2009 Cup Final.

Not only was it pointless bringing him back from Sheffield Wednesday, the fact is that Moyes pissed away all of the previous season as well playing him in U-18 games when he should have been on loan in the Championship. I would have liked to have seen him playing under Holloway for the last half of last season.