Everton fan guilty of racial abuse

Worst of all is the poison being spread down three generations of that family. It is good to see people taking a stand for what is right.

Has he been banned from Football grounds for this??

Its weird, as a younger bloke I used to hear a far amount of dodgy chants and mainly from blokes with kids almost like they where trying to impress them...

That was 1990s time and it opened my eyes to the world more.

Every club has people like this, well done making a stand cos it ain't easy.

Lee, it's racism... or at least racial abuse. And yes, it exists. Sadly.

I can't see how the 'chink' remark couldn't be seen as racism.

Well done to the two lads involved although I see Blything has denied saying it.

"Oi Wilshere, you wanker". It would be difficult for Wilshere to attempt to haul the utterer of that remark to court for a number of reasons, chiefly, that it's most certainly true. He is, or was, an onanist either now or when he was younger. At 14, due to regularly perusing tattered copies of "Big And Bouncy" I had a right arm like Popeye....

Ya don't need a licence to be a parent.

I always thought it was racist....but now?

We're one species... made up of many different races.

Ray, very funny indeed. I wouldn't suggest that bringing a "fan" such as the one who made the comments towards Wilshere to court.

Just pointing out that there are many forms of abuse slung at football matches but FA and society as a whole have singled out racism, and racism only, as the one that is punishable.

I don't get the Kopite abuse line maybe as I'm not a Liverpulian and don't suffer from it so much.

I'm not sure I agree on your reasoning on the racism thing either. I think it's due the history of racist prejudices rather than the logical reason you give.

It's immediately obvious given the content of the thread that Lee wasn't being literal.

As opposed to your nose size, vision, height, hair colour, dick size etc? For clarity, I'd rather be a french cunt than a fat-nosed, goggle-faced, short-arsed, ginger maggot.

Homo sapiens is a single species but those who have studied it, for good or ill, have noticed that it is composed of many races. Denying that ultimate cause of racial abuse (the topic at hand) seems fundamentally flawed... or worse.

You are saying this because a kopite (John Barnes) said it?

The words of an Everton song come to mind: "We don't care..."

Michael, I don't blame you for picking up on Lee's comment. I think he was maybe clumsy in the way he expressed what he thought.

Peter, I didn't see that. Jeezus could it get any more depressing.

We should not forget that there will be people who will always associate Everton with racism (my wife for one - due to incidents at a West Ham game that I took her to when we first started dating). Only if people continue to challenge and testify against racists, who happen to follow Everton, will we hope to eradicate that reputation for good.

But I was curious: John gave the impression he understood what Lee meant, and implied I was being too literal. Then he changed it, not in any way for the better...

I just wanna know one thing: what the fuck is he on about??? Perhaps you can enlighten me?

So now it's changed again! Now 'racist' is a 'flawed' word!!!! WTF??? Facepalm Time!!!

Stop talking tripe. Racism is a bad thing. The word 'racist' carries a fairly clear meaning and is thus performing its function – as a word – all too well, sad to say.

Bravo to the Evertonians who spoke out, and let's hope the guilty verdict is followed by a lifetime ban from Goodison for the offender.

And to those who've been debating it, please be assured that "chink" is still considered a deeply racist word, even though it's now rarely used. The last time I heard it was ten years ago. It was directed at my wife. Violence followed immediately.

Race is not the same as species.

First Latin, now this..

Won't bother repeating my point, seems wasted here. However, most blues are not racist, some are, but I am afraid there seems to be a number who are indifferent/don't take it seriously and don't seem to be bothered about it staining the club. Judging by some comments here, we have more than I thought in the last category.

I think we all understand how fans can vent at certain players sometimes when performing badly. Football is about feelings and being inside a football ground sometimes feels like a pressure cooker, where you shout both positive and negative things.

I feel it is wrong to deal with "racist" remarks by going to court; it can be dealt with by the fans club, and so it should.

Like I said, what happens inside a football ground should stay there. Going to court for hurt feelings is as wrong in my mind, the clubs are capable of dealing with it, Everton have dealt with it before.

On Christmas Eve, a programme about past Christmas TV showed The Black and White Minstrel Show. I used to watch and enjoy it with my mum and dad. I switched off mortified after ten seconds.

Times are changing and the Blues who reported this have done Everton proud.

Any other criminal offences you think should be allowed to be committed with impunity inside football grounds?

This match is crud.

I'm sure we've all muttered, said, whispered, stated, whatever, something along the lines of "Oh (player's name) you lazy (insert appropriate insult)"; Oh (player's name) you're bloody fucking rubbish".... So my question is:

At what point does the shout turn from offensive to an offence?

An Evertonian was indeed banned for shouting "You lazy French bastard" aimed at Louis Saha. Which part was he banned for, calling him lazy, French, or a bastard? What if he'd have shouted "Saha, you black Frenchman, that wasn't good enough"? Would it be an insult to call someone something which they ARE ie: Saha is black and French?

To me, shouting "You Scouse bastard", is no different to "You black bastard" if in the first instance the subject is a Scouser, and in the second the subject is black. But you and I both know which one you'd be arrested for....why? Are a black person's feelings hurt more than that of the offended Scouser?

Had the Evertonian shouted "Saha, you disinterested, sometimes lazy French, black person, you really annoy me"... where's the offence? Calling him French? Calling him black? Calling him lazy?

If someone shouts at Peter Crouch "You useless lanky bastard" or similar... offensive or offence?

Calling someone "black" when they are black, surely can't be racist? To me, what would be racist is to suggest by being black makes them in some way inferior, or to mock their colour by likening them to someone/thing because of their colour i.e monkey chants, calling them a gollywog etc...

I work with guys from all over the UK, and further afield too. A fair number of them, in jest usually, refer to me as a Scouse bastard... I'm from the Wirral, and I've checked my birth certificate on more than one occasion. So they're wrong on both counts.

Offensive, or an offence? – Discuss and decide....

I think I saw the aftermath of this incident (the bloke being detained by police in the lower stand section of QPR, much to the distress of his family) and I recall reporting it here on TW.

I recall also Anton Ferdinand getting booed by sections of our support at that match (the John Terry case still fresh in people's minds at that time). I mean how on earth can anyone take John Terry's side on anything, let alone racial abuse? Shameful.

Congratulations to the two lads who had the bottle to stand up and do something about this racist scumbag.

I think the vast vast vast majority of people in society know that if they say "you black bastard" that it won't be deemed acceptable and so people are much more careful not to say it. That is unless they want to make it clear that they have a problem with the colour of the person's skin rather than who he is.

Some sections of society would frown on calling somebody a fat bastard but not to the same extent as the first example and so it is more acceptable (or less unacceptable) to say this, for example.

If you called someone a black bastard, you could argue that the person is black and you don't like him much but you'd have a job convincing anyone that the remark wasn't racially motivated.

But, at the end of the day, this is 2013 and anyone who thinks it's acceptable to shout racist remarks should be banned from all matches and stuck behind bars for a month or two.

There is no problem with discrimination. Interviews, assessment and exams do it all the time. The issue is discrimination on the basis of gender, race, sexual orientation etc .

Also calling someone "lazy French bastard" isn't racist because the French aren't a race, they are a nation.

And this is a problematic area at best because you don't know what the person is thinking when he says what he says. Just because you use racist language doesn't mean that you are a racist. (Being a Randy Newman fan exposes you to this dichotomy, try his new song - I’m Dreaming - http://www.nonesuch.com/journal/new-randy-newman-song-im-dreaming-available-for-free-download-2012-09-18)

The law says otherwise.

I find the suggestion that one can use racist language and not be a racist – rather baffling. Ignorance is ignorance. Let's not get all pissy on semantics with this one.

This was the first ever game for my girlfriend who has totally taken on board the times and trials of being an Everton supporter. I was totally ashamed to be wearing the same colours and had to explain that this was really not what we stood for as a club in the the modern game.

Well done to the guys that stood up and were counted – just a shame that it had to happen at all.

This has made front page news in the Echo, and Sky Sports news had reporters outside court, surely there are more serious matters to report on?

The world is full of morons, and every club attracts them, but our priorities have become skewed when the spoken word is deemed more harmful than serious assault.

Didn't know that the law was that specific. Interesting.

Strange how some people still hold these views and think it's acceptable to voice them in such a way.

And by the way, Saha is French and Benitez is Spanish so they can not take offence from this the fact and I'm sure they don't.

Two funny videos that pretty much say it all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we-zND9Ihes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iau-e6HfOg0

Mike, I don’t know the chant you are referring to, all I know was I thought it was quite funny the opposition supporter managed to destabilise sol Campbell by insinuating we is gay, and the part that I thought was most funny has nothing to do with Homophobia - was that he should have been mature enough to handle something which - in category at least – was of a school yard level. It probably helps I consider Sol to be in the category of footballer that I hate, that being a greedy switcher between major rivals.

Obviously I am disgusted by racial abuse by any fans, but rather than just continuously jump up and down on a bandwagon of disgust, I am addressing the issue of the truth that part of football still has to be a crowd that is sufficiently hostile to the opposition.

My comment about the Kop is relevant if you have the mentality to find racist and homophobic chants funny nothing to do with Dalglish.

Is Sol Campbell supposed to jog on and take that just because he earns more in a week than the the cretins in the stands chanting it do in a year - or just because "he doesn't play on their team"? School yard stuff indeed.

Obviously I don’t condone the chant you mentioned, but neither do I think that is necessarily homophobic when some of the spurs crowd wined Sol up about (allegedly) being gay. That and nothing else, and yes I find it a touch humorous that he as a professional and as an adult struggles to cope with that bit of slack – that and that only that. HIV stuff, and Race stuff all excluded (I never before heard that). Also I don’t care for spurs, but I can appreciate the animosity that accompanies a player (captain) no less that crosses the transfer lines he crossed.

From your posts above it seems that there's a line between what's acceptable and what isn't - so where do we draw the line, and who decides where that point is?

I'd probably say the player would be a pretty good judge and I cant see Sol saying "you can call me a "whoopsy" lads, but "fucking queer's" a bit strong isn't it?".

And if its just part of football where do we start it? Kids football? Have apoplectic parents screaming "you little ****!!!" at 8 year olds, so they can get used to that "part of the game"?

In terms of what is or is not acceptable. In a supposedly civilised society like ours that is determined by laws. The "man" from Wavertree has had his behaviour and comments examined by the law and our society found him guilty. There is no debate to be had about acceptability.