Moyes acknowledges challenge facing Everton's ageing squad

He was probably asked the question in reference to Phil Neville leaving though.

Quite an admission from the man in charge of team affairs. Is he really ramping up the pressure on his employers for more money for the team?

A cynic might think this is part of a campaign to maintain the status quo whilst satisfying those who complain that Moyes does not complain enough.

If he signs a new contract then, presumably, his doubts will have been reassured and we can look forward to strengthening of the squad. Alternatively things will carry on as they are and we will continue to heart similar whines from the same manager in the future.

Who is it that keeps offering the older players contract extensions, who kept the likes of Neville, Cahill and Saha longer than was necessary, who is it that won't give the younger players time to prove themselves in the first team? Most of all who is it that allows his players to only perform for half a season?

All this doesn't bode well for the remaining matches in the PL and how must the players feel now that they realise that they are over-the-hill or not physically or mentally equipped for the unforgiving PL. Phil Neville was apparently offered a coaching role at Goodison but turned it down, I wonder why?

At the end of the day nothing has changed at Goodison, DM knows the situation and the financial constraints he has to work under. If he doesn't feel he can operate under them conditions then just leave gracefully, it would be the gentlemanly thing to do, all this whining and complaining isn't doing anybody any favours.

Because it read like a press release from our owners.

This is the man who turned down bids for Saha and Neville. The same man who tells the chairman who should be given contract extensions, the same man who does not introduce youth for any prolongued period of time for them to even begin to adapt to top flight football.

For once in his life he should shoulder some of the blame, but yet again he doesn't.

The usual lazy, bland media questions answered accordingly.

If our (mine or MK's) names are in the byline then the words are ours and not those of the publication from which the quotes were taken.

I think we might need to tweak things a little more to make the distinction clearer.

It's the only reason he hasn't re-signed. There's not a single other reason he's still holding out. Strange huh?

The guy doesn't need the money, is guaranteed a manager position somewhere, but is still holding out to stay at EFC. He needs to KNOW ownership are going to shake loose some of the windfall millions they're about to get so EFC can stop standing staring thru the CL fence and get through the gate and join in.

If you have a sizeable squad and a productive academy, you can survive with one major purchase a season. We have neither, so it's inevitable that wholesale surgery will be needed to the squad. And the only way to do that will be to get rid of 1 or 2 big names to generate funds. The only question is whether Moyes has the stomach to go again. I'm not sure I do..., but we're stuck with BK so it's all we can do.

We must have the weakest owners in the P.L. - name me another big club who would find themselves in this position? This is not an attack on Moyes, he has made it clear he wants funds or he is off, but the fact is, he knows we are at breaking point regarding the money he has available.

I can't understand why he is dragging out the inevitable, the owners are not going to suddenly give him funds the club cannot afford. If it is just about whether or not he will receive all monies from outgoing players, then that matter could have been answered months ago, so I don't believe that is why we are witnessing all this manoeuvring by both parties.

Kenwright has already put his cards on the table, he has told the world Moyes is the highest paid man at the club, has total control over players and footballing strategy, and an offer is on the table.

Maybe all is not as rosy as we think between these two.

We seem to have the least cash in the PL. Even Reading promised De Canio funds in the summer if he took over.

We are becoming a small club before our eyes due to gross mismanagement.

Just....agree.

Moyes is just simply making a valid point about the future of the squad and that we need new additions to take us forward.

The Neville bid happened as well, I cannot be bothered to look for it as it will be easily found through google. I will concede that it could of been made to unsettle the team at the time but lets not pretend it didn't happen.

As I stated, I don't read the Independent and took the OP differently.

Thanks

Surely, if the man isn't even sure whether he will be around come August, it should be up to whoever steps into his role to make these decisions?

About Europe next season: aging squad... who is captain next season? he can't let go.

You make some good points there. As I see it, lack of money over the years has had three major effects in terms of squad-building. The ageing of the squad is traceable to a lack of ongoing recruitment; the squad continues to be small by Premier League standards (fewest players used this season); and we don't do an Arsenal and buy young but expensive prospects.

This will remain the situation until there is a change of ownership or there is major investment. I think Moyes knows that.

What a bloody joke football and its followers have become. And not just at Everton!

One of his most important jobs is to bring in competent young players, before they cost a fortune, and turn them into quality premier league regulars. I think he is failing with this in numerous positions – especially midfield.

Regarding the OP and responses to it, some folks' willingness to fling shit at Moyes is getting silly.

They've done nothing beyond trying to move Everton Acme Products to a better location for them to turn a massive profit selling Everton Acme Products.

Like Rooney, Arteta, Pienaar, and soon Fella and Baines, Moyes would've preferred to stay at Goodison. Like the rest, he has every good reason to do so. I don't have to go into why.

If he goes (I hope he, Fella, and Baines stay), he'll leave for the same reason as the rest. Our owners don't care beyond how much they can stuff down their gullets, feeding at the BPL money trough.

Argue against that.

Looks like he may stay.

The alternative being Ross Edwards' man, Martinez

If for no other reason, REM doesn't work as well as MOB/Moyesist.

REM Apologist? Don't like it. As lame as Ross' posts.

Everton certainly need more speed breaking from midfield and In Coleman and Mirallas we have 2 of the best but we do need better tackling. I'm not sure if Barkley will provide the improvement necessary to become a force but, if Moyes doesn't think so, then let him get rid and bring in a younger player who will fit the bill.

We're doomed, I tells ya. For me, the big question now is, what happens if we get a really poor start to the season after Moyes has 'rebuilt' the team over the summer after having signed a bumper new 4-year contract??????? I predict a riot.

Since Moyes has kept "doomed" off the Club the last 11 years, why are we doomed if he stays?

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time."

Also, I would question the validity of the ToffeeWeb pole, the voting is not linked to your login account and therefore I suspect the system has been abused by some who, by ensuring 'The Majority' on ToffeeWeb appear to concur with them have tainted the results somewhat. Amazing how the numbers voting just kept going up, and up, and up don't you think?

I believe a poll limited to registered ToffeeWebber's only, controlled with 1 vote each would paint a very different picture. Also, there was a decent % that were undecided, if we made another bad start, after his rebuilding and antics over the last 12 months then I think a fair few of this undecided group would make up their mind pretty quickly, and there'll be nowhere for you and the other Apologists to hide, revolution will be in the air, Everton will have its Arab Spring and the MOB will rule the world, ooo ooo ha ha haaaaaaaa!

What bullshit? Like every other club on earth, EFC needs re-building from time to time. Nothing more. What is this "bullshit" me Flynn might be taken in by?

On the other hand, "bored by the bullshit"? Your posting fits that description.

Someone else, not me, might also decribe your post as the "thoughts of a simpleton". Not me Ross. I'm with you.

But someone else, no friend of mine, might.

I started a thread on the poll a few weeks back. The reality is that less people want Moyes out now than 4/5 years ago. Don't know about you but I was only allowed to vote once perhaps you should ask Michael or Lyndon? I'm guessing you wouldn't know what an Arab Spring looks like..?

But, "he inevitably signs the contract that no other club would dream of giving him".

You think no other club in Europe will offer Moyes the money he's getting now? Really?

I want Moyes to stay. But if he goes? He'll name his price to the clubs in for him (and there will be many) and he'll get the salary he demands.

Most people responding to our polls may have noticed that, once they have voted on one machine/account combo, they can't vote again (unless they have another device/account...) thanks to IP checks put in place by Lyndon.

We all may want the polls to show something that backs up our pre-determined position... but the polls are what they are, biased perhaps toward the more active internet fan who seeks us out, rather than a fully random sample of 'all' Evertonians, per Gallup or whoever.

The fan-base has been split over David Moyes — despite the best efforts of each side to convince the other of the error of their ways.

Whilst many of the blues fans I know are irked by some of his familiar foibles I don't know of anyone who actually wants Moyes out. Hardly a representative view but I'm of the opinion, reflecting what I hear around the ground etc is that a large majority support him. However accurate that is, that view is surely under pressure due to Moyes dealings re his contract. All that will dissolve if money is forthcoming.

There's something in the general observation that those who are anti anything, on any matter, are more likely to vocalise an opinion, rather than those who are roughly satisfied with a particular scenario.

Yours, slightly miffed of Birkenhead.

I would expect Groundhog Day was written by a blue.

James #301 - with the greatest of respect do you live in the States or Cloud Cuckoo Land?

Lets take Germany, as that's the European country Moyes has been linked with most. To beat his current deal he'd have to manage Munich. To match it, Dortmund. The rest pay less. If he went to Schalke on the same as Jens Keller is apparently on he'd be on €240k / £205k / $314k - a tenth of what he's erupted to be on with us.

Who are these clubs you're talking about.....?

This raises a problem for Moyes: he won't trust youth, yet is an old hand at sell-to-buy — so, either stay as we are and sell Fellaini & maybe Baines with Moyes as our man... or Moyes have a complete change of cognitions and trust in some youth.

I think I prefer the option where he learns German.

The English clubs listed above have changed manager 20 times between them since we appointed Moyes - and he's never even been interviewed. Why....?

Because they either think he's not good enough, or he thinks he won't get as good a deal there as he gets here.

What about it Lyndon? was it 10,000 different votes, or can't you tell

To me it doesn't look like we need to take drastic action. I don't see the need to have to suddenly get rid of five players in one go, especially in the context of what funds are available to replace them.

With the midfield we may need to buy two offensive players in over the summer for Pienaar and Osman but could get away with buying one. Barkley should start to get more game time so this may take some of the pressure off in terms of offensive players. Both Gibson and Hizleberger can play in the defensive midfielder role that Neville filled so we don't need to replace him with a transfer.

With the defence we may be able to squeeze another year out of Hibbert and Distin as squad players and cover. We still have Baines, Hetinga, Jagielka and Coleman as well would would be regular starters. While we might like to, I don't think we need to spend on the defence this summer.

For me, I think the more important point for debate is which of the big name players leaves in the summer. We may get a decent sum of money for Baines or Felliani but how much would we then need to spend to replace them? Would Moyes or any other manager be prepared to sell any of the older players to try and raise cash?

Moyes used to be willing to shuffle his pack, but doesn't seem so as much these days.

So to be competitive he has had bugger all money for PL proven 20-23 yr olds and has to buy overseas, Championship cheap players, our nett spend has been £2m per year for goodness sake.

The Board need to find the £30m this summer to correct the matter, or Moyes will walk.

Moyes will never ever get a soft job like he has had at Everton

He said there was a job at the club for Nevile on the coaching staff, any time he wanted to come back to the club. You don't go offering these type of jobs in public to ex-players if you are intent on leaving. He is also making too many noises about the future for a man about to leave in few weeks.

Well I'm glad you're not in charge of the club.

You'd have been happy with us selling Baines and Jagielka 2 seasons ago? Ones the best left back in Europe and the other was always going to be club captain one day.

I'm all for selling players if they want to leave. I like Fellaini but it makes sense for all parties to cash in. That aside - you don't become a better team by selling your best players coming into their prime.

I would not advocate selling more than one decent player unless there are a number of them looking for a move. You sell one, buy two and hope that eventually over time the squad is good enough to keep the fans, the manager, the banks and the players themselves happy and challenging for trophies.

In the context of the O.P above, you will have twice the work to do because you will be replacing numbers because of aging players as well as trying to inprove the overall quality of the squad.

"It was the right time for Everton Football club for Phil to go.... but he made the decision."

Errrrrrrrr???

We do need to sell - I agree.

But Baines? Jagielka? No thanks.

The club did right in getting rid of Rodwell for a good sum. Arteta was becoming painfully ineffective. Cahill was earning more than his worth.

You pick the players you get rid of. Baines and Jags are great players and great pros. The sort of people we need at Everton.

This summer we can get away with selling Fellaini and probably Gueye. Obviously we've already agreed to fuck Neville off. That's around £25 mil in transfer fees and well over £100k off the weekly wage bill.

He has gotten a few bargains but brought in many misfits over the last 11 years and that is why we are on the fringe but never good enough. If it was not for the consistently high performances of a select few players, then we would be in the lower half of the table most of the time.

Fellaini was a big purchase but only this season has he started to show something yet still lacks that certain maturity at times which lets his teammates down. Personally, I think he will go as he will bring in big money. We have to sell to buy and he is the biggest asset at the moment.

Remember, it is a business: Everton will get nothing for the likes of Distin, Neville, Hibbert or Osman and not much more for Pienaar, Naismith or Heitinga. The young and (I am sure) ''disgruntled'' players such as Vellios, Duffy and Barkley may bring something but not a lot as they are not regulars, thanks to Moyes.

Kenwright and his cronies need to back the manager, if not they should do the decent thing and sell the club for a realistic price. How many clubs have been sold in the the last 12 years? I'm sure they would be plenty of willing buyers if the price was realistic.

The board are just a set of parasites, looking after their own interest and not Evertons

Please, please, please, do us all a favour and move on.

Spot on for once!

You're right, mate, apart from the bit that said I'd be happy to sell, I was referring to a time when we needed to raise funds because we were struggling really badly on the pitch and had no money to buy. And like I said, mate, I'm glad we never.

The other point I was trying to make was Moyes made Baines and Jags the players they are because he seems to be better at getting the best out of defenders that didn't cost a lot to buy; he could do something similar with money left over.

I said and am saying again, that if he goes he will get many, many offers and will be paid at the going rate in the #1 profit-generating league on earth. Isn't Rednapp, himself on a massive wage, managing his 2nd club down to the Championship? And how many teams have hired him over the years? Yet Moyes won't get offers at his current wage rate? Bullshit.

As for, "Why do you think he has stayed and put up with the lack of transfer funds season after season"?

Jesus Christ! It's never occured to you he's stayed because he's come to love the Club? That's never once occured to you?

Still living in America, since you asked. You come to the DC area during the season, go to Fado's on 7th Street for the games. That's where the DC Evertonians meet.

If I ever do make it to Cloud Cuckooland, I'll look you up for the best pubs to watch the game there.

You say that our left back should not be our most creative player. But I read that he is the most creative player in Europe this season. If that is a fact then how could we avoid him being our most creative player and what does it say about European football?

"You think no other club will offer him the wage he is getting now?
Really" ..."He will name his price to the clubs in for him (and there will be many)
and he will get the salary he demands.

Then....
"If he goes there will be many,many offers and will be paid the going rate"

Which is it to be James,"he will get the salary he demands" ....or "he wil be paid the going rate" ?

Frank Rijkaard, you say. Just as long as it's not one of the usual names plucked off the coaching carousel.

You, not me Mike, you put Moyes in the Bundesliga and discussed his potential wage if he leaves Everton based on that.

"name some clubs you think will offer Moyes more than he's on now and then we'll discuss how realistic those propositions are".

Speculate to speculate, then we'll speculate on the realism of our speculation?

Come to think of it, you get 3-4 more chances, not one. You're fun.

Fados . . .DC . . .where DC Toffees meet for the games. Cloud Cuckooland . . where to watch the games? I'm waiting.

"You think no other club in Europe will offer Moyes the money he's getting now? Really?

I want Moyes to stay. But if he goes? He'll name his price to the clubs in for him (and there will be many) and he'll get the salary he demands."

Name one (of many) and an example of the salary he will demand.

I think you might direct your opinions at ownership, not Moyes. He's holding his end up. The owners don't appear to give a shit. And their years-long not caring is about to line their pockets further with the new TV contract.

Keep blaming Moyes.

OK.

We're done.

Andrew, "Moyes acknowledges . . . " is where we started and here we are debating who'll sign him if he goes.

I want him to stay. If he leaves, I don't care where he goes and what wage he's signed for. I don't care what his wage is now. He's being paid what an employer will pay a management employee in the EPL. How much that is means nothing to me.

My view is this:

Fergy is the greatest manager ever. he can't be overpaid.

Wenger managing has generated massive profit for Arsenal.

In both their cases, the ownership has understood they must invest to increase profitability. Our owners don't care about that.

They've done nothing to position our boys to win the League. Nothing. They're about to pocket 10s of millions the next 3 seasons. All because Moyes fields a team that can keep knocking on the Top 5 door.

I don't care what he's being paid. But given the EPL is awash in cash, he's underpaid. That's it.

Did you see Mike Green's directions to places to watch the game where he lives on Cloud Cuckooland? Maybe I'll see you there. If you come to DC during the season, drop me a line here before you get on the plane. I'll meet you at Fados.

Moyes is frustrated that BK still hasn't sold the club or ever invested but is too loyal to call him out to the press/fans. He's no doubt sick of the penny-pinching and this comment was aimed to remind BK that he's going to have to spend money he hasn't got regardless of whether he backs him or not.

The fact that Moyes has had to get into this position regarding his contract and our loyal fanbase still won't get of its collective arse astounds me.

Of the other three, Neville (36) was always leaving soon and needs to be replaced; he was not good enough anyway. Distin is 35 but has another year left in him, but given we also have Jags, Heitinga and Duffy in the CB position, we don't need to start panicking just yet.

The last player in this quartet is Hibbo who's 32. He still has at least a couple of years left in him and we also have Coleman and the young kid from Barnsley for RB so again no need to panic.

Osman and Pienaar are both 31 so all-in-all we need to replace Neville and hopefully bring in another CM to take some load off Osman. If Moyes used Oviedo more, then Pienaar could get more of a rest.

We need to bring in a couple of midfielders and possibly another striker but it's not as if we need to overhaul our 'aging' squad just yet! I presume this is just a 'subtle' attempt from Moyes to either get more cash from the board or use an aging squad as some sort of excuse.....

Bill Kenwright has already handed the initiative to DM by saying he is his preferred choice, in that situation David Moyes can negotiate whatever he likes both for his own gain and to gain access to funds for his purchases. If David Moyes says to BK that he is unwilling to sell x player then Bill Kenwright is hardly in a position to overrule him.

DM is also astute enough to know that had he have signed a contract in January then BK could have come up with excuses as to why what had been agreed could not be carried out. By waiting DM is in a better situation to ensure that BK doesn't renege on his promises.

Another situation that may also be viable is that DM is going to leave the club and by delaying his announcement publicly he is making sure that whatever monies or bonuses are owed to him at the end of his contract will be paid in full on the last day of his contract, of course that is just conjecture but there could be a myriad of reasons as to why the situation is being played out the way it has.

If he goes (I hope he, Fella, and Baines stay), he'll leave for the same reason as the rest. Our owners don't care beyond how much they can stuff down their gullets, feeding at the BPL money trough.

Argue against that. "

Well if you insist I will argue against that. There is no evidence that the owners have taken any money out of the club. On the contrary all the evidence from the audited accounts is that they have NOT taken any money out. The accounts also shows where the money has gone - its gone on player wages. How this myth that BK and co are fleecing the club continues I do not know. The only way they will make money out of the club is if they sell it to a bigger fool, but the conspiracists have it that the club is not even for sale (and on that one they may well be right) - so no chance of BK making any money our EFC.

The truth is likely much less dramatic. BK does not want to put in money he does not have. He does not want to lose control. So we are stuck. But don't call him a thief - its simply groundless.

How much could it be he's asking for? £1mn? £2mn? a year more? easily recouped from the sale of Fellaini or from the extra Sky money so hardly a significant reason for BK to say no?

But say he was asking for £20mn for players? A different kettle of fish there isn't it considering the 'other operating expenses' have to be paid? and the banks too?