Moyes is making this brilliant Everton side better with every passing season

I was convinced he was gone but not so sure now.

Sheedy was right about Keown he couldn't play football just a rudimentary kicker bringing the same ability to punditry.

The fact remains he has won nothing, nil, zero, nought, nada, zilch in 11 years, with "smaller" clubs like Middlesbrough, Swansea, Birmingham and Portsmouth winning trophies in that time.

They aren't Everton.

If they can win a trophy then there is no reason why we can't win one......whilst keeping up the standards we have set in the league.

There is no equation that says "winning a trophy = relegation".

The great managers win the first trophy and build upon it.

And I think I'm right in saying that the smaller clubs all had finals against other smaller clubs... apart from Birmingham.

None of the top teams have been able to consistently win cups, even when Utd were/are dominating the league. Take this season for instance, Utd (which I think we have to agree have had the best resources and best manager for some time) who are comfortable in the league and out of European competition ultimately couldn't force their way through to a cup semi (even with the tantalising prospect of putting another one over their neighbours). We were having a decent run in the FA Cup (again) until we came up against Wigan and had one of those days.

I'm sure there are people on this site who somehow thought that Moyes set the team up to fail and doesn't want to win a trophy, but the truth is the players almost universally had a stinker that day and got rolled over in the space of 10-15 minutes by a Wigan side playing above themselves.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/apr/16/everton-david-Moyes-premier-league-elite

Manager who has won something - check.
Buyout and investment - check.
Loads of expensive signings and flair players - check.
Attacking - check.

It really is a miracle that we gave them a game, never mind came away with a win.

Also some funny comments on kitbag and Finch Farm that had more than a hint of Toffeeweb about them.

Domino #335 "There is no equation that says "winning a trophy = relegation". And no equation that says that just because a few "small" sides have won a trophy, then Everton have to be able to. Same reason as above.

Chris, in addition to the comments by Brent, you only have to play a team who have one of those "bad performances" and you're in, they're out.

Why is there this constant criticism of Moyes? We go to Arsenal and WHL and come away with a well deserved point and it's Slag Moyes Time. All this crap about clubs like Middlesbrough, Swansea, Birmingham and Portsmouth winning trophies is pathetic. I wouldn't swap places with any of them just for one good day out at Wembley or the Millenium followed by decades in the wilderness of the Championship or worse.. If that's what you want, go and support them. Blackburn have won the Premier League,something even the RS haven't done . Whoopeee!! It'll be great down in Div 1, .Some people on here need a reality check... I'm just waiting for some bozo to come on here and say that money has no bearing on performance....

Tell that to the people whom are always on about the fate of a few sides which have won trophies in the Moyes era at Everton.

They are the ones whom seem to think that winning a "minor" bauble like the F.A. or League Cup is s one way ticket to relegation.

It's time you chaps started developing a bit of belief in the club and indeed the manager you all worship.

But let me pose this question to those whom fear winning a trophy.

Suppose we had built on the sensational start at Wembley in 2009.

And actually went on to win the Cup that day.

Do you fellows think we would now be languising in the Championship.....or sitting in the middle of April with still a chance of CL football next season?

I bet it's the latter.

You need to stop this sack cloth and ashes approach.

Just because the likes of Boro, Pompey or Blues won a Cup and went down does not mean we are going to adter winning one..

Those clubs have a long history of yo-yoism.

They would have been going down even if they hadn't won a Cup.

Because it's what they do.

Everton don't do relegation.

Never have in my lifetime, have done so only once in the lifetime of my 80 year old father.

So parrotting "but look what happened to Boro/Pompey/Blues after they won a Cup" is not only totally irrelevent it also flies in the face of historical fact.

Know yer history.

The whole 'only the big clubs win the cups' discussion is totally pointless. Why? Because we get knocked out by NON big clubs most of the time.......so yes, we should/could have won a trophy over the last 11 years.

We just don't do knock out tournaments at the moment becuase we tend to play a percentage game, which over the course of a season gives us a reasonable league position but doesnt work in do or die situations - i.e. cup competitions. Until this changes, we generally wont do well in cups and will keep going out to the Readings, Wigans and Oldhams of this world.

Please stop this crap about only the top sides winning the cups. Only makes any sense if we get knocked out by them regularly - which we don't.

You'll find most teams aren't knocked out by 6 bigger teams.

The chances of being drawn against a monied team in the cups is slim, and as all the teams go into one-off battles with each other it just so happens that all the whittling down results in 17 of the 21 cups under Moyes... probably 18 of 22 come May... going to teams with the money.

But money isn't the underlying factor here. Just mass coincidence of course.

...We did lose a FA cup final and league cup semi to Chelsea. And Liverpool.

League is priority, our budget should see us languishing at the bottom, yet we're challenging for a Champions League spot. Any credit for that Moyes? Of course not, because he's such a crap manager for not winning a trophy.

I think as fans we should be doing all we can to persuade Moyes to give us 5 more years.

That may make sense if somehow Everton held a place elevated above all the teams without money, but we're of the same ilk.
And other than those 4 occasions, the those-without group have always a met a monied team.

Just because 4 teams have won, doesn't mean we have to have won as well.

Richard - Nobody can do it because David Moyes has been manager of Everton FC for all of that time , therefore the unique situation that exists at Everton is completely different to any other club much as it would be if you said the same about Fergie or Wenger. as they too manage clubs who are unique with their own challenges and problems to solve.

The only reason I don't go overboard with praise for David Moyes and wouldn't cry into my beer if he left is that he can't find a proper striker, I don't mean a thirty million goal machine. just a player who is comfortable up front, who can hold the ball up, pass and move and occasionally have a pop at goal, it's not too much to ask is it? Also I'm not sure that even if he had the money to spend on a striker, that he would spend it wisely

"let me tell you one thing, young man... money has no bearing on performance"

Bozo Clough, Feb 1977

Phil, was he sober when he said that? Didn't think so.....

It's a while since anybody called me "young man"!

Game, set, match!

And the thing about having an Abramovic or a Venky is that they supply oodles of cash along increased expectation to deliver on that outlay.

I'm not sure what your point is on Kenwright because you show him to be a plus and a minus all at the same time.

Another well thought out MOB post.

Richard Dodd, this time next year (if his BK U-turn is anything to go by).

Forget a manager, try even a club to match Everton's record over 11 years... over the course of the seasons, not a two legged Europa cup match, a tournament that they didn't even go on to win... I think?

And you can't dismiss Moyes's record because he's been in charge for all that time, as if that gives him an unfair advantage. That 11 years has been earned even without a trophy.

Unlike your goodself, I don`t stick to a point of view when all the evidence proves me to have been wrong. The case against Moyes (even if there is one) is totally different from that against Kenwright. The former has demonstrated year on year on year that he can manage the resources available to him very capably whilst the latter has proven to be incompetent in all he does apart from choosing – and staying faithful to – a great manager.

But other times we have finished either top 8 or 11th for one season. That's consistency for ya! I can't see how he would have been sacked by other chairmen with that same budget.

Thank god he didn't get sacked, I can't imagine what position we would be in. Possibly better off or the same, but a hell of a bigger possibility that we would have been worse.

I'm liking this Moyes now. I was questioning his commitment earlier in the season, I wanted him out if his heart was not in it. So I hope he stays, but if he doesn't, no grudges, we can go for Martinez instead, and start a new era. Either way, an exciting time in the summer I think.

Then there is the problem of finding a new manager, I know some have suggested Martinez. Yes is team play good football but for all that his whole tenure at Wigan has been to fight relegation not a happy prospect.

Ross, just read your own post again. "Moyes has been lucky in the fact that he has had an idiot in BK for 11 years and not someone like the Venkys group of Abramovich as he would have been a goner years ago". So, BK is and idiot (agreed) but Abramovich? After Di Matteo won the CL he gets sacked by the Russian gangster, allegedly, and you call BK an idiot and state the bleeding obvious that Moyes would have been sacked by Abramovich. ANYONE would have been sacked by Abramovich.

I think he should give it one more season, sell Fellaini, buy Fer and a good 'keeper, and see what happens... plus really go for it.

In answer to your challenge, I have thought of a manager that has outperformed with the budget he has, produced a lot of young talent which have at some point in their career played in the Premier League, a manager who has now retired after over 20 years in charge of his club, and that man is Dario Gradi of Crewe. Taking Crewe from the Fourth Division to the Championship, producing talent like Dean Ashton, David Platt etc, with little or no budget whatsoever, relying on young players, and now working with the youth team he has produced current players like Nick Powell, now at Manchester United.

His achievements in football have been recognised with an MBE, so he has made more of an impact in football than Moyes will ever do in his career.

Dario Gradi has also never managed in the Premier League so I don't think you can apply any comparison to Moyes at Everton. Btw he also got Crewe relegated quite a few times

The amount of money Moyes earns should mean that we get value for that money in all areas. Moyes needs to try more in developing youngsters if he is going to fill this squad up in addition to buying outside players.

You could say that, with little or no money, Moyes has overachieved with us, and in over 21 seasons, Gradi had little or no money and had to rely on youngsters with Crewe, so there is a small comparison there.

He got Crewe relegated a number of times because he overachieved getting promoted to that division in question. If he would have been able to keep players like Ashton or Platt he would surely have come close to getting Crewe in the Prem.

BTW, anyone who gets recognised with an MBE for services to football must have done well in their career.