Moyes hails Bundesliga model

I wonder if DM is learning to speak German as he does seem to be angling for something other than to praise the Bundesliga as it's not the first time he has done this.

Perhaps he could persuade Bill Kenwright that if we had a plan to work to, we as a club could buck the trend in this country and become more like a German club.

What German is this guy gonna blow to get his gig in the Bundesliga?

What is your main ambition?

Well, if 55 years have passed (Schalke last won league in 1958) since you last won the league and that wasn't long ago, I'd hate to think what he thinks is a long time ago with regards to winning the league...

Well he's gonna have problems when he gets over there!

A few years back I was at a conference in Asia to do with commercial opportunities in sports, sat next to a senior exec from the German FA, so naturally took the opportunity to sink a few dunkels with him and interrogate him. Their clubs had at that time a lot bigger sponsorship deals with (mainly) German MNCs. Their broadcast deal was nowhere near where ours was (this was the previous TV deal to the one we have now, which is about to end). He prophetically stated he thought the future expansion of the EPL broadcasting deal would lead to English clubs getting stellar sponsorship deals (as seen now with almost all clubs except us of course), and that Germany would love to follow the UK model, but he felt that it was unbreakable as the top English clubs would always go for the top global playing talent, to keep the value of the TV deals high.

Which when you think about it makes for a perverse logic. Keep signing the top talent (which costs top $) and the TV networks will pay loads for it. And back then (2007-08) people were then predicting the demise of the value of the TV deal...

The British model (ie: our clubs) is beyond greedy and I believe, in time, will be shown to have been near-sighted in the extreme.

Light the Blue Touch Paper and retire!

The main issue for Youth Devmt in England is the old-fashioned methods which have been used in the past – reliance on strong/fast/big players as opposed to technically gifted; an over-emphasis on winning at a young age (discourages players from taking chances and developing skills); use of basic tactics (eg, hoofball) instead of more sophisticated and varied tactics.

It seems that the FA is finally starting to address these issues. Let's hope it trickles down to the clubs.

I agree with that; it's very short-sighted. At certain times of the year I am blinded by sunlight reflected by all the bald heads in front of me in the Paddock. Everton is, on the whole, quite good at creating pricing structures that attract younger fans. But the bigger picture appears to be quite depressing, really.

I think its you who is confused Ciaran the main purpose of Youth Development is to provide a stream of quality players to the club's first team and thus save the club millions in transfer fees. This is something else in which Moyes has been a total failure and he's had 11 YEARS and 'LOADSA MONEY' to get it right too.

Take a look at these German teams in the CL – I don't think I witnessed one hoof from Bayern or Dortmund.

Jagielka twatting it to Anichebe, who then falls over trying to bring the missile under control would not go down too well methinks.

They have to have academies to hold a licence, and they have to take a certain number of German players.

Tell me, Tim, what exactly is Moyes doing wrong in that regard?

OK – Now I know.

Oh, and before anyone says we are not a long-ball side, this season we are third behind Reading & Newcastle for most long balls played in games.

I am not sure Moyes would last long in the Bundesliga: in a league with teams full of youth products playing cavalier attacking football, a conservative defence-minded coach who doesn't trust youngsters will probably not go down too well.

Don't care what the stats say. I watch us, and we're not a long ball side. Personally, I think we mix up our approach play nicely. Mind you, when we played dull, unadventurous, percentage tippy tappy shite people on here were still complaining we played hoofball.

Fact is that Jags and Distin are not ball playing centre backs and so when put under pressure they are under instruction to clear their lines. Perhaps you remember Distin trying to clever in the FA Cup Semi?! How that means that Moyes would tell Bayern to hoof it all the time, God knows?

Fact is some managers just feel safer giving it the boot no matter who they have in their side.

Moyes actually HAS given 'football' a go in fits and starts over the last year or so, but he has never seemed 100% committed to it. Strange as it has actually, in terms of results, been no less successful than hoof-ball and my guess, more so.

Everton’s Jagielka has attempted more long balls than any defender in the Premier League, but Toffees goalkeeper Tim Howard has actually gone long less (5.2 times per game) than Liverpool’s Pepe Reina (5.7 times per game). However, Jagielka’s stat and that of Marouane Fellaini, who has contested the 13th highest amount of aerial duels of any forward, proves that Everton are certainly not averse to using long balls.

In case you missed it the first time.

Of course not. It was from November 2012 after Gerrard's comments about the first derby. Interestingly, the article's conclusion was that are are not a long ball side. Strange you didn't mention that?

Our leading coach,Alan Stubbs, stated on the radio last week," There is no substitute for experience.".He was,of course, echoing the thoughts of his boss. The Premiership has risen to such a high standard that teams fighting for a European spot cannot afford to take a chance on youth experimentation. Barkley,like Rooney and Rodwell, has the necessary physique and technical ability but struggles with the speed of thought and movement at the top level. It can't be easy but the lad is exceptional and will probably make the grade.

This transition from under 21's to the 1st team is a massive problem and maybe this is why DM is anxious to learn how it is achieved elsewhere. Till he does then I'm afraid these boys who excite you at Finch Farm will never play for Everton in The Premiership.

Guess the number for your prize?

We play some long balls. I get it. I don't deny it. But you're trying to make it into something it isn't. We mix up our play between short and long, we change our tempo.

The players being produced in Germany right now are widely being credited to their compulsory academies. Does anyone know how many 1st and 2nd flight English clubs don't have what you might call an academy?

And 52.6% average possession....those stats are not the stats of a long ball team. Funnily enough, a stat about Jagielka doesn't make us a long ball team...

And Everton's youth system doesnt have a specific problem...the whole Premier League does. Most of the youngsters which break through these days have been brought from lower division teams. I'd actually say the money we've made from the likes of Rodwell and Vaughan, and the appearance of Barkley, Anichebe etc in the first team, makes us one of the better examples in this league. It's a shockingly bad situation...and our national situation would be so much improved if we had benefited from significant levels of FA funding into youth football, as happened in Germany at the beginning of the last decade.

Theoretical question on Mourinho....imo, he is definitely in the top 5 managers in the world...and maybe the best. With Everton's current budget and team, do we think he could get us top four football?

Both stated that Moyes had done all that he could at Everton and a fresh start at a new club with money to spend would bring the only thing he lacks, trophies.

It seems that Mr Moyes is not as bad as the MOB make out.

However I do think if DM was to leave for a 'bigger' club then Arsenal would suit him the best in comparison to the other jobs.

But using Saggers and Houghton to back up your assertion does it no favours.

Your stats mean nothing - live football is where it's at, you can hear the ball screaming!

As for dragging up a point made on Talksport, it is from a biased Kopite in Houghton whose opinions matter little at all. It's the same with all of them on that station. Especially Durham.

And I've seen plenty of Everton games...but I think it's great that you insult a fellow Everton fan for not having the capacity to watch Everton regularly.

You are really a swell guy. Or a foolish gobshite, who gives Everton fans a bad name. You pick your interpretation.

Alternatively, he might be snapped up by bottom-of-the-league team Greuther Furth. Now I flatter myself that I'm fairly knowledgeable about football, but I have never heard of Greuther Furth! Are they a made up team, like Crystal Palace?

What, for crimes against humanity?

Surely such a rigid protectionism of your subjectivity belongs on a playground, instead of informed debates between fellow Everton fans? whose presence on this forum necessitates a level of investment in terms of time and passion into the club, which in part gives a validity to each opinion?

The stats can lie, I agree with that. You have us a stat from November that demonstrated that Everton were not averse to playing long balls, that Fellaini was the most targeted player in the air, and that Jags played the most long balls in the league. Yet that period to mid November 2012 yielded some of the best football I've seen an Everton side produce.

There's no shame in us not playing tippy tappy. We played tippy tappy for the first 6 months of last season. And we were unbelievably dull and uninventive. We couldn't score and were absolute shit to watch. For a time I thought that style would take us down, so bad was it.

We've a nice mix right now. Similar sort of levels to Man Utd, albeit with inferior players in a few positions and no squad to call on.

For all the criticisms I could level against Moyes, his general style of football this year wouldn't be one of them.

And Ernie, I'm in agreement with you. We've played some great football this season... and I think a more diverse style, is a more beneficial one. Bayern have been shining examples of a fantastic footballing side... who still have the capacity to play direct, and play winning football. Their ability to change it up, ultimately, in my eyes, now makes them the best footballing side in the world, without the weakness which can be attributed to Barca (No plan B etc).

If we approach next season, like we approached this, and with a bit more investment in attacking players, I think we will have a very very good season.

And, by the way, Davey, I don`t think the stringent German model allows for too many managers to earn upwards of £4M for finishing seventhish!

It's a strategy that I can see would be favoured by a fundamentally defensive manager, mainly for risk reduction, but also he could reason that, "Yea, so the other side might get possession.... but they have to then work the ball at us and we have the superior defensive skills and plenty of time to maintain our shape before the ball finds its way back into our area."

That's what it looks like to me when I watch us play. It does not look like good football.

Generally, I don't believe we've played 'long ball football'. We've played direct to a deep lying forward (usually Fellaini) but rather than hoping for flicks or knock downs we've played to his feet or chest and got players around him to support the attack. We've balanced that tactic by playing short stuff - if you have only one tactic it's easily found out.

The fact that we have 53-54% possession on average and are in the top 6 for possession tells you we don't just pump it long to 20/80 chances.

Against Wigan we played short and were useless. They completely shut us down, we played shit, and ultimately resorted to hoofing it. Against Sunderland we were useless despite a massive amount of possession and resorted to hoofing it.

I would say the games where we played long were as a result of us having stinkers, rather us having stinkers due to suddenly deciding to play long ball.

Good luck to him.

It looks increasingly likely that the only dotted line he'll be signing is BK's new improved contract in June.

Having a really big man on his own upfront (ie, Dunc/Victor) does tempt goalies to aim for them and Howard certainly needs no urging to do just that!

Is that how they play in the Bundesliga?

It'll be alright on the night!

[Hope the wife`s didn't read it!]

I know BK doesn't have common sense but it seems logical to offer him a better contract to force him to stay.

"Moyes will go to Nuremberg"
What, for crimes against humanity?

I'd like to see him and his best mate pantomime dame Billy in the dock for crimes against both EFC and good attacking football and also while we're there we can try Moyes for cowardice against any club that has more money than us (in particular there's a team that plays all in red that comes to mind).

Despite Frieburg not having a boy's pen it has struck Bill how much he loves the area and the people. He thinks that SC are a real community club and expects the 24,000 solar powered stadium to outlive its purpose and is working 24/7 to find investors to bank-roll the signing of new players ,He also believes that a move to a shiny new 28,000 stadium, much of which depends on LIDL providing the majority of the funding is a far better option than redeveloping the current stadium.

Due to his commitments at his current club he may have to wait a little longer to achieve his boyhood dream but if and when he can disentangle himself from the financial web that he inherited at Goodison he has made it clear that he will buy SC and that David Moyes is the only manager that he would be comfortable working with.

A source close to BK has said that Bill considers his links with SC as a marriage whereas Everton although he loves the club is only an affair.

.....it was all a dream.

Ciaran(326) John is perfectly correct. Our youth development policy is FA to do with the FA and everything to do with Moyes....or was it an edict from Lancaster Gate telling Moyes not to play his younger players after the Leeds game??

The purpose of our youth team is not to win a league or trophy, but to provide players for the first team or for sale.

If Moyes is in such awe at the way the germans do it then he should be bloody well doing it too. He can rightly complain about the stadium issues, but he's had 11 years to remodel our youth setup and start to develop the youngsters we have, but has decided to shut most of them out of the side, instead.

"I would say the games where we played long were as a result of us having stinkers, rather us having stinkers due to suddenly deciding to play long ball."

This is a great quote. When we're playing badly the long ball is more obvious, because other things aren't working and we revert to it more often.

We are absolutely not a "hoofball" team, and I pretty much started switching off as soon as someone makes the argument that we are, because it's pretty much a standard accusation for someone who doesn't want to make a more considered anti-Moyes argument.

"When we're playing badly, the long ball is more obvious, because other things aren't working and we revert to it more often."

What you really mean is that we run out of ideas and play aimless hoofball.

yes I do think Jose would have finished in the top 4 if he managed Everton this season,without a doubt in my opinion.

So please can we knock off all this crap about BK drawing up contracts, BK not spending this and not buying that. It's stupid, it's childish and it's boring.

Moyes's next quip "I think Syria is an amazing country. In my view it is completely safe, with a democratic system of Government, but I won't make a summer move yet."

Then, he'll follow that with "The North Korean Army is outstanding, it brings fresh blood in every 10 years and boasts about carrying out threats which it hasn't the equipment or leadership to carry out. I would love to be the next dear leader of North Korea but I'm not considering a summer move yet"

He should bring out a book, "David Moyes' Amazing Places" out in all good bookstores and found on BK's bookshelves.

If I was Moyes I would learn German.

That is a fucking awful thing to say, shame on you.

Ross 522:

You have far too much time on your hands.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/may/01/german-fairytale-champions-league-spiel

It's predicting the rapid demise of Dortmund, and, more generally, the situation in which one club (Bayern) is pretty much guaranteed to win the league due to a lack of competitiveness.

Decided to give up on my BK rant. According to Ross, our chairman is now an avid reader and collector of DM's published Travel Guides.

1 Why he hasn't already signed it?

2. Why BK hasn't already offered it?

3. Why, if reports are true and he's holding out for assurances that incoming monies will be used to improve the team, that that is a bad thing?

Because a new manager would not show the blind loyalty under the constraints Moyes has for the sake of a big wedge.

He may well spill the beans on the state of the club.

1. He's after more wages

2. Hasn't Bill said he wants him to stay?

3. Delusion from those unhappy with point "1."

4. With expectations raised so might the rabble!

5. Because that's what's been going on since Kirkby.

NEXT!

The clubs cash does not only go to fund Moyes transfers. The club has spent more than it has earned for a long, long time. We've taken out loans to cover the shortfall and aside from those interest payments there is the day to day running costs of a club, such as ground maintenance, etc.

So far as I'm aware BK and his management team have made numerous bad business decisions which have failed to increase revenue compared with our peers, however they are not taking cash out of the club in any direct sense, and Moyes still gets to use about 75% of total turnover on the playing staff in wages or transfers.

Given that loans have been used (in part) to purchase players, its only reasonable that (part of)those loans get repaid when players are sold. So while it might seem reasonable for Moyes to blackmail the club into allocating him a larger share of the cash and demanding that he get X% of fellaini's fee or whatever, I'd honestly be happier to see Moyes given the sack and a new manager brought in who is willing to work within the financial constraints of the club .

Given the way many peoples personal finances and the country's finances are up shit creek from spending more than they earn, I'm actually quite shocked that I seem to be the only one with any real concern that Moyes behaviour in demanding more cash to spend might pose a very real risk to our future.

Barry, I think the majority of the fan base want Moyes to stay. There wouldn't be expectations raised. Nice try.

Wayne, Demand or seeking assurances? No transfers in five of the last seven windows is probably not a situation Moyes would want to continue or commit to. Understandable, no? And think long term - where would this bankrupting stand Everton under Moyes' charge in future? Equally unpalatable.

NEXT!

I just feel the fans are being treated like the proverbial mushroom and Moyes is complicit in that.

But I agree that silence is probably the way forward at the moment, until Bk leaves. Then we can really get to the truth.