Southall chimes in on 'lack of ambition'

Make of that one then.

?????????

It's the priority list: Premier League, Champions League, FA Cup, League Cup.

Appointing Martinez will show the club is willing to appoint someone that plays entertaining football and can win the FA Cup. Yes, Neville, the fans want a trophy.

What will show a lack of ambition is appointing from within such as Phil Neville or Davey Weir. If we give the job to Stubbs then that will be a disaster of cataclysmic proportions.

What a legend.

http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/130601/exclusive-%E2%80%93-neville-southall-appointing-roberto-martinez-would-show-ever-1987?

If one of these is appointed (my choice would be Pereira but not for any really good solid reason/s) I would be going into next season with some optimism.

Not doing cart-wheels maybe, but accepting it's a new fresh start, get behind the new feller etc, hope for the best.

If it is Stubbs, I will of course get behind him and hope for the best, but I can say now should I hear - "Everton have announced their new manager is to be their former centre..." - my first reaction will be 'Jesus fucking WEPT!!'

Any extra money has been generated by Moyes or the ever increasing TV deals which doesn't really help when everyone else is getting it as well. These guys are hanging on in there in order to make a killing off the back of the club. Speculate to accumulate, they say, but these fellers will only do that for their personal benefit — not for Everton FC.

Rangnick would be my choice out of the 3. I will accept Martinez though if hes installed. I will not accept a Stubbs/Weir.

The job will come with at least a £1.5 -£2m a year salary, and a 3 year contract.

Even if they feck up after 6months, they are looking at lottery win. You can't tell me this is not partly the reason they are all clamouring for the job.

They should all go and earn their reputation elsewhere, and then apply for a job of this magnitude. I don't want anyone in charge of the first team without the necessary experience, and certainly not their first job in management. Weir, Stubbs & Ferguson haven't even been a number two at another club.

He wants to play good attacking football and seems to be keen on bringing youth players on. I think he was very much part of the German football development and the results are there to be seen: Germans have become quite a force in club and international football.

The only downside could be the stress factor. He resigned from Schalke due to exhaustion syndrome and the PL could be mentally even harder than the Bundesliga. Still, his CV being so much better than that of all the other candidate's, I think we just need to sign this guy.

The manager is the most important man at the club so only the best should be considered. I do not think that Martinez is that man.

Since the eighties, our expectations have been lowered and lowered. I also believe that there are managers out there who can achieve success with limited funds.

Bit harsh on Big Nev to pull him up on that one line from a 10-min interview. Having listened to the whole thing and plenty else it's clear he's far more in touch with the fans than anyone involved with that clipart farce of a badge.

What he seemed to mean was that, given our history, anyone who cares about the club should never be content to 'just' win a cup, but given the current state of affairs – ie wage bill largely determining final league position – it's better to have a cup win than nothing at all.

Also, he alluded to the idea that a competent board wouldn't have let a situation develop whereby one of the richest clubs in the world could take from us one of the best paid managers in the world without having to pay us a penny in compensation.

If one line from that interview best sums up Southall's feelings, it's maybe this one (in response to being asked about the possibility of certain players following Moyes out the door):

"At the end of the day, if you wanna leave a club like Everton, I say good riddance to you, mate."

I get what he's saying when he wants us to bring in a man who has won titles as it will change the thinking among the players, if he's a winner he will want winners playing for him and he'll bring that mentality! But with our squad and current finances, we wont' be in with a shot of winning the league, that's for sure. The best we can hope for is a cup or top four, and that's the reality of it!

I was born in the 80s, 84 to be exact and only know stories of the title-winning sides from my dad. I'd love us to be back at the top and competing for league honours but I'm not daft enough to know that we can't compete cos of finances unfortunately. So IF we did ever win a cup these days, or qualify for the Champions League, that would be an achievement for us, and that sounds really wrong for a club like us!.

Southall reckons appointing from within is basically more ambitious than appointing Martinez but that's bollocks. Martinez HAS Premier League management experience and as just won the FA Cup, a cup our old manager failed to win with us in 11 years but yet he as got the United job! Now to me, just cos he didn't win a cup, that doesn't make Moyes a failure cos he's a good manager, but I wouldn't write off Martinez so easily. He's clearly the preferred choice for Kenwright IMO.

But, by the sounds of it, Rangnick has thrown the cat amongst the pigeons the other day and apparently impressed greatly in his chat with Kenwright.

But is he wanting the job full-time or has Kenwright interviewed him to be our first ever Director of Football, a job he currently holds at Red Bull Salzburg in Austria?! Does Kenwright want him in under that position above someone like Pereira as Pereira has only ever worked with a Director of Football.

We'll soon find out come the beginning of next week!

I'm not making a case for him but somehow from the internal candidates he's the one who people begrudge most. He's the only one I know who has been involved in some "management" role at the club. Neville, Weir and Ferguson were all mentioned also and people were OK with them getting an assistants job at least.. But not Stubbs????

He's an Evertonian!!!!

He's on radio so maybe rushing his thoughts a bit and yes he contradicts himself on occasion ("maybe Stubbs" and "I'd like to see somene who has won a league title") however I love the sentiment he's trying to get across and I love that he 'gets' Everton and that he doesn't pussyfoot about.

(first time 'in the meeja' I've ever heard 'Everton supporters don't like Bill Kenwright')

"We should be going for the league".

Absolutely!

None of them are even remotely qualified for the managers position at the club, and I doubt vey much if any of the first team think they are either.

We want someone to take us forward from this point onwards, they would all be sweating on 40 points more than Moyes ever was, we could expect plenty of hoofing, and lots of bodies behind the ball.

It would be a disaster if any of those got the job.

Southall must be pals with Stubbs, that's the only reason he would recommend him.

I noticed in one instance he was saying that Martinez is a good manager and then saying that it would show a lack of ambition by the club and that Everton should be going for someone with experience of winning a league in another country, something similar to what I think. When Moyes was here, I would've snapped your hand off if offered the chance to replace Moyes with Martinez and I still think Martinez could do a good job for us but, given the choice that Kenwright has of several good managers, I would have Martinez about 5th on my list. Seeing as that list Is now down to three, I would go for Pereira then Rangnick and then Martinez.

Admittedly I have gone a bit cold on the idea of having Martinez as manager as of late; I think we'd play some really good football, might win a cup, maybe see some of the younger players develop, and we certainly won't know what the outcome of a game will be before we kick off... but I do think that he will not better Moyes's league positions so expectations will only be so high.

If we get Pereira, I would believe a real longer-term plan could be developed where we COULD break into the top 4 with some shrewd signings, selling a few big earners, giving some youngsters a chance, and implementing a whole new philosophy of how to play. I could be completely wrong but Pereira is my first choice, by far.

If one of the big 3 were to be the next manager of Everton and all have been interviewed last week and before why has nobody been installed? Surely if Kenwright has half a brain he could decide on one of the big 3 by now? No, BK is waiting for Pip to come back with his answer so the other guys have been put on Ice. There is no other explanation.

I know some of you want to believe Kenwright is being careful and doing the right thing. I reckon Weepy Bill is up to no good. More nonsense and smokescreens to hide the real truth.

Let's face it, he has previous for it but, then again, some of you never learn... Please not one of the Finch Farm Posse, FFS.

A lot of people seem convinced that Vitor Pereira or Ralf "I'm too tired" Rangnick are the answer. Personally I'm not a huge fan of Martinez but at least I've heard of him

I like all the internal lads but how can you say you want to 'win the league' and also be happy appointing a man who zero first team management experience.

I know absolutely cock all about Periera and Rangnick - in fact, it took me over one full minute to find out how to spell the German chap's name - and as for Martinez (pronounced Mar-teen-ez) I think we'd all get behind him but his record really does scare me.

A very big decision.

So are you.

So let me ask you.

If another Wayne Rooney came along FOR EVERTON, would you actively encourage him to go to a 'bigger' club?

No you wouldn't, but that's what your 'Evertonian!!!' did with the first one.

Remember Stubbs owns/owned shares in Pro-Active (Stretford's company?) and more than nudged Rooney into their arms and consequently out of Goodison (no doubt nudging a nice few nicker into his own bin)

Stubbs advice to Rooney was basically to leave Everton.

The reality is, there are Evertonians and there are 'Evertonians'.

It was a Tongue In Cheek reply to Kevin Tully's previous post.

Chill out man

I don't think you meant it to read like that Chris, but I agree - there IS absolutely no reason whatsoever to appoint Stubbs as manager.

My dream team is Rangnick as Director of Football over either Pereira or Martinez as first team coach (prefer VP, but OK with RM) with blue-bloods like Stubbs/Weir/Ferguson and Sheedy as assistant coaches to provide some stability.

If that happens, BK will go up in many peoples' estimation and we'll look forward with confidence.

COYFB.

Is there a chance of getting either of them before Monday?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RitQOh9Z3yY

I hope to God I am wrong for all our sakes. I will be expecting some grovelling apologies if I am proved right. It has made me chuckle though reading these threads where our fans actually believe these interviews have been genuine.

It's only a few months ago since the Leroy Fer debacle – that was the biggest con since the Vardis Ofoe debacle. Kenwright should be hounded out of Merseyside if, after all this pontificating, he appoints one of our own. It's all ending in tears... I can see it now.

BK OUT!!!

However, if you are wrong, I think we'll be looking for a helluva lot more than meaningless apologies from you.

It's looking increasingly like Martinez is getting it.

Of course it was.

I have obviously completely misinterpreted - "Some people have a serious issue with Stubbs being appointed for absolutely no reason whatsoever"

You'll have to forgive me, I still have the old TW which only allows me to deal in the written word and don't yet have Toffeecam that (I presume) allows one to post seemingly serious posts while winking cheekily to indicate 'I'm only joshing'.

And you know where you can stick your chill pills 'man'

(he said winking cheekily meaning the total opposite...possibly..but it's hard to tell).

They can be very disruptive to the manager, Comolli, Henk Ten Cate, Arnesen are recent examples of directors of football that have proved disruptive to their clubs.. Anyway, directors of football are not really an English tradition to be honest.
Peter, if Periera was appointed, he would want who he wanted, not who Rangnick, the director of football, would want. It just wouldn't work sadly. Plus, we would have to pay around £3million for Periera's wages, and around that figure for the director of football. Great idea, but it wouldn't work sadly.

Slightly off topic, Negredo has scored 4 goals for Sevilla tonight. Could the new manager use the potential Felli money to buy him?

I'd like to know where Neville Southall has been for the last 19 years to be honest. Of course we want to win the Cup. That's why, especially on TW, we took the Wigan and the RS semi very hard indeed.

I had agreed with everything he had said until then. I'd even take a League Cup as well, just something to go in the cabinet please!

Why is it increasingly likely Martinez will get the gig? I'm not saying your wrong, but he's been interviewed twice now, and still no announcement... seems to me BK isn't really too sure, that's what the silence says to me anyway.

I feel the longer there is no announcement, the greater the chance it won't be Martinez, even his odds are slightly longer now compared to this morning.

The way to become a top 4 club is to think like a top 4 club.

Bill reckons he's the best saleman EFC have got so why couldnt he persuade the likes of Pellegrini, Hiddink, Riijkard to take on a challenge.

After all a top manager would close the gap between the haves and the have nots.

IMO Martinez is a disaster waiting to happen. 4 years flirting with relegation. I could understand one or maybe 2 seasons while he imposed his abaility but to take a club down with record goals against is not a CV for a potential top class manager.

The German football model of late seems to be quite good, strong,reliable, attractive and successfull. Just look at their cars.

Ralf could instill his style and phlosophy and Renee could implement it. Who knows ,with Ralf on the bridge and Renee helping to steer could the "S.S.Everton" go places?

It's just a thought .
It's just a thought

Now, a month after DM slung his hook, we still don't have a manager although every man and his dog have had a love-in with Bill. Who is Bill waiting for?

The names being tossed around by Evertonians are laughable even if they have had interviews as we don't have money. Bill wouldn't appoint anyone who wasn't a Yes-man, Phil Neal-type, so there's no chance of the Porto guy or the German guy coming here.

I hope I am wrong and I can't help being confused either. It is Kenwright we are talking about here and with him anything is possible, as you well know...

Maybe it's impatience, but I'm starting to see this TM's way. Something is starting to look a bit stage managed and I can't quite put my finger on what it is.

As for Sir Southall, I'd hazard a guess that he's saying he wants the club to show some ambition by appointing a guy who aspires to win the league rather than a guy who has aspired to stay in it. And failing that, an internal appointment because there are guys there who 'get' the club and have seen things pre-Fergie's bitch.

I wouldn't mind Renee Zellweger to be honest..

Martinez would be a really terrible appointment.

Remember: Sir Howard has already spoken against Martinez.

Weighty voices ...

Glass half full: BK is being thorough.

Glass half empty: BK is being thorough but more as a PR exercise.

Glass half full (of piss): It's Neville and we all know it.

Jesus! Will somebody call my nurse for me please? I can't take it anymore!

Jay Harris - I tend to disagree. The way to become a top 4 club is to SPEND like a top 4 club. When you've done that, get the right manager and you've got half a chance.
Kevin 127 - Colin Harvey, Dave Watson (not suggesting either worked out well though!)

None of the above (on any thread), fill me with great hope and expectation.

And Martinez leaves me devoid of either.

Ross, Rene Zellwegger? I reckon you have been getting a bit over excited with chatting to the lovely Sharon this week.

NSNO.

Bill will do, in no particular order, what is best for Bill, what he can get away with, what ' looks ' good for his ( self ) Image

Oh and if we are really lucky what is good for the Club.

He has already fucked up... for the above reasons, the biggest decision in the Clubs History since 1892... The Kings Dock.

Don't fuck up the 2nd biggest Bill.

I think Martinez will be our manager by the end of Wednesday. Not my first choice but better than some of the alternatives I reckon.

You keep moaning about Bill taking his time and for him choose who he thinks is the right man straight away. To stop fucking about. Didn't you think Neville was a good choice for a moment Tony?

The only reason they are being considered is because they are ex-players. This is no time for sentiment.

(my pick... Rangnick by a street).

Reminds me of George Best's remark: "Anyone who doesn't want to play for Everton, doesn't want to play football."

When the Pozzo family took over Watford in a similar deal, the club wasn't profitable and had considerable debt — it wasn't quite one of the cases of Premier League clubs being sold for the grand total of one pound, but it wasn't far away, either. With no decent-sized clubs in such a situation currently — considering Kenwright's odd management of Everton — then it seems an alternative approach will have to be taken by De Laurentiis.

It looks like our lofty ambitions will have to take a back seat for a little while longer.

http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2013/6/1/4386928/leeds-united-everton-aureliano-de-laurentiis

Just don't think the pressures of the permiership really allow managers to grow into the job these days.

So logic says Pereira or Rangnick so that means with BK deciding it will be Stubbs, Weir or Neville.

Best not to use "logic" and our chairman in the same sentence.

It used to be part of the ' Double', the Holy Grail of footy but it has now been sadly devalued and marginalised to an also ran, with a token Europa place like the even worse micky mouse League Cup.

Champions League or bust is the way now

You can win cups with luck, leagues are won with consistency
Leagues count much more.

I love Southall but I think he is wrong here. Today you don't win the league – you buy it!

How might the board approach a decision clinically?

One way might be to conduct some form of risk assessment. For anyone who has the misfortune to have to do these as part of their job will know that they are dullard aren’t they?!

So which manager is the riskiest proposition? Whose record might we look back at in a few months and say “well, the signs were there.”

There are positives to each of the 3 so let’s have a brief look at the main negatives:

Martinez : Previous Premier League relegation battles, 1 Premier League relegation, no experience of managing a team in the top half of a top division.

Rangnick: Has had run in’s with previous club boardrooms, so previous record contains sackings and has also quit positions. No Premier League experience.

Pereira: No experience managing outside Portugal. Not sure whether he wasn't offered a new contract at Porto or whether he was stalling.

I am coming over increasingly to the thoughts that this is the approach that Bill and the board might take. We know that there are risks to any appointment and they will be concerned that if it does go belly up, then how can they cover themselves?

The new manager having Everton DNA, building a legacy, progressing us to be top 4 would obviously be great. However, Bill has possibly the biggest decision he (or the club) has ever had to make and I believe that firstly he will want to be able to say if it went wrong; “well, at the time we chose the manager who had the least risk.” He could apply the line of “I believed that he had Everton DNA, or I thought he had the best plans/potential” to any of the 3.

Many have said Pereira is a risky appointment, but I can’t really see that he is more risky than Martinez or Rangnick.

I'm certainly not anti Pereira, Rangnick or Solskjaer. I just believe Roberto would bring so many extra possitive traits to the club!

We had them (I think) first game (or very early in the season).

My memory is woeful (and I can't be arsed googling everything) but I think they put three past us.

That they went on to win the title straight from being promoted was incredible at the time, specially when you got a good look at them (imagine Hull winning the PL next season)

What was even odder was it looked (certainly to me) like they had puddin's, old fellers and none-stars all over the park.

Most of the teams in the 'top-flight' then would have had teams that 'on paper' looked much better.

Clough and Taylor were the difference.

To be fair, things were more even (fair) back then in terms of team's players.

No club could just go and buy two teams of top internationals so the team that won the league couldn't rely on money to win them trophies.

Teams that won stuff had coached their teams well, figured out the opposition but above all, genuine belief had been instilled.

This is where the likes of Clough, Shankly and Revie did their thing.

SO much of what they did was about belief.

It's probably not possible to win the title this way now as certain teams can afford to have fantastic players in EVERY position.

Nevertheless, I think instilling belief is a bit of a lost art.

Everton under Moyes showed we could physically and actually beat Chelsea and Utd, but the belief never appeared to be there that we could do it regularly (or away).

Southall is (as we know) an unusual character.

He refreshingly says what's on his mind and is one of the few out there who genuinely doesn't appear to give a fuck what (other) people think.

So here's the pitch.

We have goalkeeping coaches and striker coaches - what about a belief coach?

Someone in 'there' to constantly be (one for the teenagers) 'bigging up' players and giving next weeks opposition down the banks.

I nominate Nev.

Clough was the master of motivation and made his players feel they were unbeatable when they walked on the pitch. They went on to stroll the league, then two European Cups, which is why the RS hated them. Knocked them off their perch long before SAF came along.

None of the external candidates are British or industrial, or back to our roots. Maybe I am being too cynical.. But it's not got a ring of sincerity about the whole thing.

'One day I will win the Champions League '- Vítor Pereira

Link to new article:

http://www.abola.pt/nnh/ver.aspx?id=405960

Let's hope it is with us!!

Cloughies early teams certainly did resemble something out of a Vicor/Valiant strip - a real Legge's 11 hotchpotch of has-beens and never-heard-ofs
I remember when we first saw John Roberson; I'd not seen a more roly-poly footballer since the old newsreels of Puskas in the 50s

I feel exactly the same way Christine. It's gonna be PN, isn't it?

"I believe that Porto is a part of my way. After? Wherever where God wants me to take"

I wonder if he is aware of the 70s St End chant "Jesus Christ was an Evertonian"

That would certainly be 'the Everton way' Colin.

ie: Not enough just to give us disappointment, first something better is dangled, then whipped away at the last minute, THEN we get disappointment.

Vitor always can pop in there for a cup of tea before the match

A shambles of a board also missed the boat by not investing in goodison or finding us a state of the art new stadium, or investing in quality players.

Like iv'e said Nev's heart is in the right place but he's talking mostly nonsense. Next he'l be giving clinically obese people advice on how to get back into shape.

The only way we are going to get back to the glory days is: if a rich arab agrees to buy everton for a ridiculous sum of money which our board are asking for

You're almost certainly right, but I don't think that necessarily means Nev is wrong.

I don't simply see his comments as that of an old (successful) pro thinking "We did it, why can't they do it now?"

His words were a bit of a ramble but he's spot on re 'the club' not entertaining anything other than first place.

It doesn't mean you'll GET first place but it also doesn't mean accepting/stating all this (Moyes/Neville) "For Everton to be in the top eight is an achievement" shite.

We've seen the quote a million times so I'll go for a million and one.

"Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser"

Big Nev is almost saying we should be challenging for the PL and CL trophy, thats the impression I got

LMAO he will! Moyes will do fuck all at United.

When I listened to Nev, I was thinking 'You're rambling a bit".

However (as was described in the great Aussie comedy 'The Castle') I feel it was about 'the vibe'.

Which for me was (or appeared to be) 'You're Everton - believe you can be first'.

As I say, buying into this, 100%, guarantees nothing but if 'the club' genuinely approached everything with this attitude, my guess is, one way or another, we'd all feel better about things.

Just my opinion, appreciate there's no right or wrong with subjects like this.

But your point is valid. Not only do we have no Balls or Reids or leaders on the field. We have armband wearers, but no Capts. ( Moyes doesn't like tall big gobbed poppies ?? ) We have no deep down self belief Vs the old sky 4, Spurs? just like us only in Harringay, City all fur coat and no knickers, big club my arse, I remember when they were in the 3rd div...like Villa.

Shankly was a master at ' these are shite lads, get into them' He would then tell them after the game ( anderlect )You've just beaten one of the top sides in Europe...See, you ARE good and you CAN do it to any one.

I think it's called management... as opposed to coaching, thats just footy

Southall would have been better off saying exactly that, rather than saying the owners lack ambition.

Hard to disagree with that, but the harsh and horrible reality is, the chances of any of that happening are slim to none.

We simply have to work with what we have until a miracle happens.

And I believe (possibly like Southall), that even with the restrictions we have, a different attitude or 'mindset' COULD improve things.

It might be a cliché but if you think you're beaten, you probably are.

Certainly the Forest team I refer to could have very easily taken the attitude "Well, we've just won promotion, staying in the division will do"

The reason they didn't do that is because the man in charge had the attitude "Fuck you, it's 11 V 11 and my 11 will have more belief in themselves than yours"

Agree with Derek (366) that one or two leaders ON the park would be a good start.

All overseen by one man...our Bill

Patrick, having watched both sides, us every match, them fairly often, I, and I'm trying to be neutral here, still think we played the better football. But the nucleus of the side were bought by Johnny Carey.
Catterick and Shankly were polar opposites. Shankly was the master of what is now spin, and could play the media with witty soundbites and get them on side. Catterick banned the cameras and the press, which is why we have a dearth of footage of our best sides, the 62-63 side, and in my opinion, the best ever, 69-70.

Arsenal have a sixty thousand seat state of the art stadium yet have to sell their best players. The other clubs I've mentioned are in the same boat we are. Clubs with big histories but small bank accounts.

Now the fact is that a few million quids worth of investment isn't going to make a great deal of difference to how well we are doing. Any extra cash tends to go in inflated wages anyway in vain attempts to bribe good players to stay for one or two more seasons before the bugger off to bigger clubs.

Southall was fortunate enough to play in the one great side Everton have had since the 1960's. But football was a very different world then. Money didn't have the influence it has today.

We all want to see Everton do well but unless we get serious backing in the form of billions (millions just doesn't cut it anymore) then whomever the next manager is I would say all we can expect is more of the same. Decent finishes but no cigar.

BTW regardless of what Southall thinks I would like to win the FA Cup.

As (I think) I am the only one who mentioned Shanky, I must presume I'm the 'Shankly lover' you refer to.

I will simply say what a marvelous, insightful and well thought-out response.

However, for anyone who believes I might NOT be in love with the late Bill Shankly, consider the following.

The three managers I mention, re 'belief', didn't JUST win trophies.

They all took shit second division teams, with no real record of winning anything, or of being a real threat to anyone, and turned them into football super-powers.

What they did was, certainly at the beginning, almost all about belief.

When Shankly took over Liverpool, they were in the second division, they'd never won the FA Cup and they'd not long before been knocked out of the cup by none-league Worcester.

They were barely on the map and going nowhere fast.

Revie did the same at Leeds, a small team doing nothing.

And Clough at Forest who turned a 2nd division side into European champions..twice.

Who played better football in the 60s, us or Liverpool?

We did, but...what does that have to do with anything?

As Ray Roche says (377) Catterick inherited a more than decent team (one that had just finished higher up the league than we just have).

Sorry, don't see the relevance to what is (or was) being discussed.

Maybe you should start a thread 'Shankly, useless twat or hopeless fucker?"

You see, Eugene, in the world of a Moyes Is God supporter, there can be no equal. Shankly, Clough, Revie, Paisley, etc — all shite. Even though Moyes hasn't won a Bollywasher in his entire career, he is still the Bee's Knees because he didn't get us relegated when we were certs to go down. Before the Ginger Genius, Everton were a YoYo club, up and down the league by the minutes???

The only people on this planet with less ambition than our board are certain sections of our fan base... And that's a fact!!!

He left them for Wigan, but the footballing philosophy he left behind at Swansea set them on the path to becoming the team they are today. I think he should have stuck with Swansea as I see them as a bigger club than Wigan, but I think his association with Wigan and the fact that they were already in the Premier League must have swayed him.

Despite his dubious defensive record he managed to keep a small team (average attendance last year of 18,000) in a rugby town surrounded by major teems in the Premier League for three seasons and won the FA Cup for the first time in their history. They depart the League in a stable financial position (thanks to the parachute payments) with a decent squad and European Football to look forward to next season. He managed to keep them in the league when teams like West Ham, Newcastle, Wolves, Bolton, Blackburn, Birmingham and Portsmouth failed and this year finished above big spending QPR. He also managed Wigan at a time when their Chairman's business went under and his funding was severely curtailed.

To me this paints the picture of a manager who is able to instil belief in his teams and a manager who can get his team to punch above their weight by playing football the right way. Perhaps if he had played a more direct and physical style Wigan could have been harder to beat, but he stuck to his beliefs and the Wigan faithful were behind him all the way (as far as I'm aware). I certainly don't recall angry fans with Martinez out placards over the past few seasons.

Everton has twice the average attendance as Wigan and a much larger wage budget as well as a squad that regularly finishes in the top six or seven. He would also be coming to a club who's fans are desperate for a manager who will play a faster paced attacking game. If he can instil the belief in our squad in the same way as he did in the Wigan team that won at Wembley we could push on and actually turn all the nice media comments about plucky little Everton into silverware!

Sorry to keep banging on about RM, but I feel some of the negative comments are unjustified considering what he had to work with at Wigan.

I am sorry you took umbridge but it wasn't aimed at you personally if it was I would have referred to your post directly.

If maybe Allardyce or Pulis had taken charge of Wigan last season, they probably could have kept them up, but not won a Cup, so are they better managers?

Sometimes, you have to look beyond one season, and what he may do in the future. I have been pleading for years for our manager to show some imagination, and not to be so predictable. I don't think Martinez lacks in either department. He is an intelligent man, and has an awful lot more to offer than people give him credit for.

Either way I find what he says inconsistent drivel. I don't think I have heard him say anything sensible. Honest.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p019vzl4

Yep, next time I'm looking to be enlightened on some aspect of Everton, I'll be looking REEEEEEAL close for your 'analysis'.

Dolt.

Mark Pierpoint (521) - "His constant bleating is really getting on my nerves now"

Yeah it's practically every day isn't it, more or less relentless.

Grow up, the man is an Everton legend who WAS ASKED his opinion and gave it - honestly.

Shame he's not an expert radio presenter and entirely consistent but his message ultimately was clear to anyone NOT looking to pick holes.

"It seems to me the guy has an axe to grind"

I agree - what happened, did he fuck you off for an autograph?

I didn't agree with lots about what he said, but I think its discracefull the way some of the people on here are trying to portray him

For Wigan, beating Man City in the final will be a memory the fans will never forget. But being in the Premier League with no chance of winning it is a sad state of the league – and this the case for most teams.

I think I'll just leave that hanging there.

By way of an argument, I can't top it.

If this is the same 'intuition and summation' (?) you use to to hit 'space' and to decide where to put a comma, you're fucked.

I give you your own words - "the worst type of fool - the one that doesn't know it!"

Anyone can let their tongue run away on occasions and throw a strop. In this case he is just wearing his heart on his sleeve.

LEGEND.

Ratcliffe was also a touch critical over EFC board sitting on their hands over DM's contract; either not securing compensation or having an immediate successor already in place.

I think it's positive that these two Titans speak their mind, as Big Nev did so eloquently over the badge fiasco, as it comes from a place of genuine Evertonianism.

Southall was the greatest goalkeeper I saw at Everton - - from 1959 - - Young may have gone missing- - I guess Pele did a few games - still a Legend to many and me certainly - - some people used to hate Alan Ball for his arrogance including some players I knew - - but still - - they can be Legends - - I heard Southall on Radio 5 and he shut Savage up very early and straight - - I used to listen to 606 but now I turn off when Savage comes on but I listened on Sat/Sun because it was from The Arena - - heard Peter Reid as well - - one of my Legends certainly - - played The Souse game - - talked a lot about going on the booze - - still a Legend with me as a player.

Keep cool gang - - and keep cosmic - - George

"I think it's positive that these two Titans speak their mind"

I presume you're talking about Eugene and Gary................?

He is NOT a professional radio presenter and talks the way many of us do about Everton, with a passion and a desire to see us do better.

It's funny, many have analysed his every word pointing out his inconsistencies, but if you read THEIR posts, much of it is garbled nonsense devoid of punctuation (see G,a,r,y R,e,e,v,e)

Remember, Southall is thinking on the spot, TW posters have time to correct

George (621), I'm happy to 'take it easy'

However when someone who thinks a comma goes after every word, starts referring to an Everton Legend as a 'knobhead', saying fuck all isn't (for me) an option.

Punctuation is important though; if people misspell and mispunctuate, other people (however unfairly) will suspect that the person making the post has a similar indiscipline in his/her thought processes. And will discount the opinion accordingly. It's the same wider political/social argument that says spelling and punctuation are unimportant, so why bother with them? Only you will find that the schools and employers which turn out the powerful people in our society think very differently. There's a reason for that.

grins.

Not much.......but more than Stubbs

Chris Leyland (624) - Aaaaahh what happened?

Did I give you down the banks in the past?

Hey, want to learn something? (guessing "NO!!....NEVER!!")

Using capital letters for emphasis is something that has been used in literature since the first words were printed.

Maybe if you'd read a bit more, you'd have discover this for yourself.

Seriously, if the best you can do is to compare a perfectly legitimate use of caps for emphasis, to completely fucked incomprehensible gibberish, you just make yourself look a twat (and a very desperate one at that).

I'm all ears

We need more people like Big Nev saying what they think instead of the constant media led 'glass ceilings', 'get to 40 points', 'punching above their weight' etc etc.pundits who steal a living by being no more than unthinking parrots trotting out meaningiess phrases.

Everest would never have been climbed and man would never have reached the moon if people like Savage and their mindset had been listened to, sport like many things in life relies on ability and belief, to succeed you need both, but belief can make average performers achieve great things.

I must admit they played some very effective winning football and also some average stuff when the promotion team peaked and went off the boil.

We on the other hand played some exceptional football and it must be said some crap and some average ( no change there then )

When we were good it was internal self generated, The Catt put in the players and sometimes got it right, but was, as stated no orator - spin merchant.

In terms of the whole 60's thing it was neck and neck, our best was better than their best. But their average was just slightly higher than us, due I think to the whip effect of shankly's bigging them up. That slight edge is sometimes the difference between winning and losing.

Harry Had his plan, the way the team played and let the opposition like it or lump it, come on give it your best shot, we are Everton, the team in Blue and white, ( we don't need no badges on our shirt to tell us who we are ) when we were good we were very very good.

His idea of tactical change was to ( once ) let Denis Stevens man mark Bryan Douglas after he had bossed us in the previous encounter, or put Sandy Brown up front coz he had a cannonball shot.

Shankly how ever was always changing it about and mostly got it right.

Different men, different ideas, more or less the same effectiveness.

Oh and to who ever the tv ban came in at the end of 69 after he was indiscreet ( swept up in the fame of the tv attention )

The reason why there is hardly any footage of the 62-63 team is that match of the day got on the football beatles liverpool ( the city ) bandwagon, ( of which we were at the forefront ) until 1964 and who were the first on match of the day....correct - the redshite... nothing ever changes

RS, you always get exactly what it says on the tin.

As far as I'm concerned, that more or less nails it.

Either people get this or they don't.

Gary (636) - "I'm all ears"

Really?

Personally, I see you more as being all unnecessary commas and no spaces.

What Southall did against Leeds (ie: got annoyed, got angry, showed he cared) has ABSOLUTELY FUCK ALL (enjoy em Chris!) to do with whether his comments on what would be good for Everton, have validity or not.

Raising it is, imo, like discussing the assassination of JFK and throwing into the mix "But what kind of materiel were his kecks made from?"

In other words, completely and utterly irrelevant.

I was at The Leeds game and thought "good on you Nev" for at least saying something about mediocrity and drivel. same as now.

Same goes for whatever Gary Speed said - - at least he spoke up.

I have been very clear about my stance - - I have wanted Moyes out for about 5 years - -mediocre and dull.

Now up and ready to move on and give our new manager the same (early) support I gave Moyes and all previous Managers.

Cosmic grooves all the way - - George

The ship is blue - We need a manager!!! The suspense is driving me mad. If Tony Marsh is right about Pip I am definitely going to spit the dummy.

That feels better.

Err.....because he made a record 751 Everton appearances, earned a record 92 Wales caps, won two Leagues championships, two FA Cups, a European Cup-winners’ Cup and was named Footballer of the Year whilst keeping goal for a title winning side.

The fact he got into a strop once and parked his arse down on the pitch for 15 mins is neither here or there. Anyone who would consider that the defining moment of his Everton career, and enough to nullify everything he achieved in the game, has got bigger blinkers on than Hans Moleman.

"...if you look into his eyes,he doesn't even care- He says things out of devilment."

I'm expecting the Halloween soundtrack to kick in at any moment here. You sound like Dr Loomis describing his first meeting with Michael Myers. When exactly was it that you stood in front of Southall, stared deep into his eyes and determined his true nature?

"Southall is a knobhead....He was on Soccer AM recently.."

Let me get this straight...you watch Soccer AM, yet Southall is the knobhead?

Seriously, some people couldn't pour piss out of a shoe if they were told the instructions were printed on the sole

Neville was a perfectionist. If you spoke to him after a game he'd never talk about the great saves, he'd talk about how he felt he should've done better about the one he didn't save. He's actually quite a shy fella, and not one for socialising with the players. His not staying around after the win in '95 was entirely typical, and no-one was surprised.

What's that about goalkeepers being a bit mad? The best ones certainly seemed to be.

Well he is still a goalkeeper/Everton Legend for me -- I know a few footballers and many apart from being able to kick or head a ball are not particularly interesting or exciting.

Also I am involved in theatre/art/culture and meet many great actors/writers/poets who's work are tremendous but are not very nice.

Sometimes when everyone is a certain way you need maybe a oddball - like Southhall - -what about Peter Reid not getting on the bus - - does that diminish his Legendary status.

For me no.

In the end its football.

I can accept lots of things but there are a few issues I do not accept such as fascism in anyway - - its interesting that Di Canio caught the ball and we can call him a gentleman or honest - - yet he has openly declared himself a believer in fascism and a supporter of Mussolini - - so on a wider issue maybe man/men/mankind/humans are not all good and not all bad.

So its good that we can completely disagree Gary over someone actions - -of course I keep repeating that its football - - but still we are True Blues.

I do find myself rather leaning towards the outsiders - - those who do not accept mediocrity - - I have declared myself on my FB page and website - -www.yellowhouse.info - - as someone who is engaged in the battle against mediocrity.

But this is all time filling fun - - we are all waiting to see who our next man is.

Best wishes Gary.

Some said that was Ball's problem as a Manager - - he would constantly tell players what he had won.

Must be a bit sad being an ex -footballer - - not today's footballers - - they all have well financed retirement - - but those pre Sky guys must sometimes have a bit of a chip on their shoulders and also maybe have to "perform" for a bit of money.

Sad in a way.

If you're too young, that's reason enough, but you should have said earlier. I'm still all ears!

And Eugene, don't bother pointing out the mistakes in my post. I'm on a smartphone, that isn't the easiest to use. Be home on my laptop soon though.

Well the Leeds game in 1990 was a long time ago but a hellish day for a 15 year old Blue living near Leeds. Listening to the radio as we went 3-0 down and McDonald's missed penalty nearly killed me.

Colin Harvey said that he had no idea Nev had walked out and the atmosphere can't have been helped having 5,000 Leeds fans sat behind him!!

At that point the team was starting to fall apart and it was only 3 years since we had won the league... I never imagined we would be sat here in 2013 and not ever have been close to the league since.

Anyway, Nev is/was his own man, always will be and I'm proud he played for us. He was incredible to watch and I don't disagree with much he says either. He ain't no yes-man.

I was at the Leeds game (I'm 54).

You are talking 100% bollocks re the crowd BUT...even if you were 100% RIGHT, that the crowd on the day WERE against Southall (nb: and they fucking well weren't!) it would have absolutely NO relevance whatsoever, as to whether or not his opinion on Everton FC's current state has any validity.

In effect you would be saying "Nothing Southall says about Everton should be listened to because he once sat against the goalpost for most of half-time (once) because he was pissed-off coz we were 3-0 down"

See - fucking stupid and fucking irrelevant.

I have no doubt there will be a response that (for the 10th time) will do nothing but illustrate your inability to grasp the simplest of points.

Consequently, I shall be ignoring it.

In the words of Tony Hancock, 'good luck!'

You using your smartphone.
Is that an oxymoron?

By that point, we were skint and clueless in the boardroom....... hmmm, that sounds familiar!

Also, I still query the fact that you were at that Leeds game, if you are denying there was a groundswell AGAINST him when he threw his dummy. I am bored also, but not intimidated. Southall talks shite lately – I'll say it again.

Not much of a difference between those two options?

Could it be Mr Chairman haggling over the compo with Dave "Shithouse Tory" Whelan.
Maybe Dave has broken his leg and cant attend negotiations.I am sure I read somewhere he had broken his leg.

And don't give a shit that he sat on his post 23 years ago. Over 16 years and 751 games, he paid back for that misdemeanor a million times over.

Well said Big Man. Fuck what anyone else says.

I've wasted a day batting this around and I would urge anyone to go back to the original piece, and try and decipher what Neville is saying. He wants someone from within. Someone fresh who's won something. From France, Spain, Germany I don't care... I mean c'mon, WTF!?! His words of wisdom, last week, were to get someone with £50m! That standard of debate is not good enough, and does no credit to some of the more vociferous posters on here, who like to steer arguments down their own routes.

If Southall sitting against a post is how you remember him you can't have been at Spurs for the save from Falcoe, at Sheffield for the impossible save, and the numerous occasions when Neville won us the points in tight games.

I think you place way too much expectation in the Socratic, oratory abilities of ex-footballers.

In fact, I doubt that I could name any player would pass a "standard of debate," test.

The man's not the Keynote Speaker at the Oxford University Debating Society...Neville's in a free-flowing conversation and he's simply kicking ideas around.

Albeit not renowned for penetrating insight, he remains one of our greatest, and at the least, we all know where his heart lies. You should cut him a little slack.